Respect for an in-depth analysis in a charged environment. Personally, I'm having a ton of fun in Tekken 8 and think it has gone in a very healthy direction for the series. Where it goes too far with 50/50s, we can push for it to be toned down. Improving sidestepping certainly doesn't strike me as a bad idea. But rewarding proactivity to change an overly defensive game is generally a good thing for the health and vibrancy of a game, and making more aggressive options become more likely to lead to rewards was the right creative decision in my view.
I wholeheartedly agree, though i have to say that Tekken 8’s problem doesn’t really seem to be that offense is more rewarding than defense, but rather that the reward that offense brings comes with very little risk. There is no incentive to not mash your weird gimmicks or constantly throw a mix-up.
@@Android_Andy Is that really true? I feel like each defensive option's reward increases with risk. The least risky being stand guarding rewards you with either block punish damage on non safe moves, or your turn back on neg on block moves. The risk in this game is there are moves that punish stand guard either with plus on block, or chip damage, pressuring you to pick a more risky defensive option. Armor moves and keep out/jab out can reward you with counter hits, damage, or just stealing back your turn, but they also have risks of either not being safe, or duckable/ backdashable, etc. You have parries which counter pressure, but they can be whiff punished if mistimed. Movement, the strongest defensive option, rewards you with launchers, but obviously if you're moving you aren't blocking and can get hit if you choose the wrong option at the wrong time. The risk to offense has always been defensive counterplay, but you have to actively choose the right option. It can't just be block and move around until it's my turn. The game moved from "Can you hit me?" which was based off spacing and movement, to "I know what you're gonna do next." Which is based on reads. Risk assessment. Pattern recognition and timing and string knowledge. It's a way more frustrating game, because defense is no longer passive. You have to actively partake in being defensive.
Every Tekken game is about choosing options you think are likely to work out best for you based on reads, but it's really interesting to compare the different option spreads: * Any Rock / Paper / Scissors feels good (e.g. attack / sidestep / realign) because you win 1/3 of the time, lose 1/3, and tie 1/3, so 2/3 of the time you feel a'ight * Backing out to range 4 is like forcing the tie: Never feels bad, but it's not exciting either, so it's relatively boring * But 50/50s are the opposite: You only feel really good 1/4 of the time (blocking the low) and it feels bad 1/2 of the time Tekken 8, then, is an improvement in interactivity over 7, but could probably tone down the 50/50s (especially heat)?
No when Tekken 9 releases nothing will have changed and Tekken 8 will still suck but in comparison it might seem better than 9, because the series is getting progressively worse.
believe it or not it's possible to have a fighting game sequel that is largely praised and seen as better than the previous entry by the majority of the community.
@@legosuperbricks9861we will continue to have ppl like you constantly have doom and gloom negative comments about every new release trying to convince ppl that the new game is ass.
Yall complaining about the balancing. I just want Tekken 6/Tekken Tag 2 customization and Tekken force and team battle back. Give me my single player content HARADA!!!
TTT2 is still my favourite Tekken, was it balanced? Hell naw, but being able to play on the same team as my mate and make wacky combos is some of the most fun I've ever had in Tekken
@@legosuperbricks9861tekken 7 was so unbalanced.. the akuma hate, the leroy hate, the fahkumran hate, the geese hate, if you dont pick these characters you lose and u have to pay for them.. its practically pay to win game
And it's the same people who yell everytime that is the same game, but always saying they want a game like 5. And ngl, Tekken 5 is a masterpiece, but it's annoying how many times I encounter someone who says 6 was the decline of Tekken, and they played like 1 hour of it. PD: Sorry for My English
The way he actually HAS TO do hardcore disclaimers because a significant chunk of the community has auch a hate boner for the game right now, that they call everyone who does not literally shit on t8 a shill. Its insane
actually the vast majority of people just don't care about those losers. They enjoy the game while the few crybabies cry. It's only the crybabies that cry to these people, hence why they're the only ones getting answered. Just enjoy the game, it's the most fun tekken right now. Numbers speak more than crybabies
-There's no better 3D game out there -Online just good enough for people to play against each other consistently compared to past titles -The game being on PC for the first time really spiked up interest and ownership of the game -The scene that surrounds the game rather than the game itself most of the time (SF5 flop on release, FGC drought, hype tournaments back to back with impeccable stories coming out of the game; Qudans returning, Lil Majin run, Panda winning, Arslan comeuppance... and so). It's not really the game itself, but rather what goes behind the scenes. The game is just a catalyst. That is the reason people see it with rose tinted glasses.
Leroy lasted like a month before he was nerfed to the ground, Kuni was never that big of a problem and Akuma was a problem if you were a Tekken God already.
I noticed nostalgia somehow made people ignore or forget the absolute TORTURE we went through in T7 I swear if ya'll get rescued from being taken hostage or sm ya'll say: "it was so much better back when we had the terrorists fr fr🙏"
I think the big problem with the discourse surrounding T7 vs T8 is that we’re comparing a game in its final form after 2 years of testing in arcades in T7 to a new game with a brand new mechanic in T8 that’s not even done with its first season. I’m not satisfied with how slow, or at times how negligent, the devs have been to deal with character balancing or heat related bugs and overly powerful heat mechanics, but my theory is that they’ve allowed the game’s current meta to play out as it is so they can analyse community opinions and pro players’ interactions with heat, before commiting to a huge heat rework that’s likely coming in the season 2 patch. I also think that’s why they’re waiting to adjust the heat mechanic before making sweeping changes to the character meta and vastly changing the properties of moves, in case the changes they make aren’t compatible with the changes they make to heat or any other new game mechanics they add or remove. TL;DR stop comparing a game with 8 years of balancing and tweaks to a game in its first year with a brand new game mechanic, and huff some of this Season 2 copium with me
The only copium in your comment was you framing it like 8 years of balancing in T7 was it getting better overtime lol, T7 was getting worse and worse the more they introduced newer balance patches and characters lol. Remember how they try to remove the busted Akuma wall setup just to remove all character's wall setup, and Akuma was the only one left with broken wall setup. And how they introduced insanely OP Leroy, Lidia, and Fark. Then can't nerf the OP character properly without gutting them from S-tier into unusable F-tier states, they just gave DVJ the same S-Tier to F-Tier treatment in both late-T7 recently in T8 lol.
You're the type to pick akuma only spam fireballs,trips and helicopter kicks. Shutup. Chip damage is stupid,heat is stupid,rewarding button mashers is stupid,only a few characters have good side stepping,heavy use of meta characters,and non stop spamming of evo combos. It's so obvious most players are doing what they have seen online. There are no innovative plays. Only dragonov running attack. Kazuya 3 hit launcher. Its boring and people rightfully hate it.
omg no string realign would be so goood imagine no more jin round start 2,1,4 you can actually counterplay i think tracking and non tracking moves being more defined helps a lot being left without tracking options feels bad and getting caught by random moves tracking also feels bad that and having better backdashes can be really helpful and make the game more engaging
Yeah, because they gutted a lot of moves. Also, that's only true if you weren't very creative with your character. Save some legacy characters in Tekken 7 who had a lot of leftover moves from previous games, most of the movelist from a character was viable and made for a specific situation.
PhiDX just wanna say I appreciate the grounded positivity you bring to the community. T8 ain’t perfect ofc, but some people are almost getting off on hating it, I feel.
Honestly, while i look at 7 with a little rose tint, i think objectively 8 has the potential to be a way better game then 7 ever could hope to have been, and i hope the team gets the support from not only the publisher, but as well community figures like you Phi to help them make Tekken 8 the best game it can be. I still havent quite found my footing or a main in 8, and i miss parts of 7 so much, but i cant deny that i do not miss so much of the issues that plagued 7 from launch; bad netcode, bad movement (both the actual movement and the fact that everyone and their mother had a safe on block fast homing mid CH launcher for some reason), the 0 commitment BS (like magic 4)... I wanted to thank you, PhiDX, for helping me to better understand how to adapt to Tekken 8s style of gameplay, and for keeping a positive attitude as I feel you have. Its genuinely helped me to better tempery own view of the game, and have more fun in it then i could have imagined given my feelings at launch.
@PhiDX I've watched about 10 mins in and there are two major problems with the footage Speedkicks used to argue his and your point: 1. They are selected for to prove his points. I would bet hard that there are a little less, an equal amount or way more clips of Tekken 7 that counter his arguments/thoughts than support them. But he did not look for those and probably just looked for the most obvious ones to back up his side/exaggerate the degree of issue more than it was. Which might have been dime a dozen. But credit where it's due, these particular comparisons in the video wasn't as egregious/obvious as the one he did around April which had me facepalm. 2. There are other footage of Tekken 7 that can be selected for where the games of pros is a lot more contested with many more decisive interactions per round. Which lead to my second point that the comparison used by speedkicks was improper because up till Tekken 8, the diversity of playstyles was immensely significant due to characters not being all rush down like they are now. Different characters influenced the flow of combat way more back then so it doesn't make sense or is fair to compare the T6 armor king vs bryan who are both poke and counterhit fishing characters to a T7 Dragonuv vs Feng match, where dragonuv in T7 isnt the most optimal character to tie down evasive playstyles with feng being one of the most evasive tin cans you can fight. The lack of interactions and decisive hitting are very much due to that fact. I would say if the comparison featured "T7 armor king vs bryan" it would look a lot more similar to that T6 video of armor king vs bryan. It might be even more aggressive. at the very least, it would be more accurate to find a set and compare T6 Dragonuv vs Feng to T7 Dragonuv vs Feng. But that might not be possible to find ofc. The fact remains that speedkicks is wack for thinking this proves his point. It made no sense tbh.
Speedkicks didn't find the first he's replying to a guy calling that clip as peak gameplay of Tekken 7. Also I don't know how anyone whose played the older games could think the movement nerf in T7 (along with the slight backdash block buff) didn't nerf offensr significantly compared to past titles.
Here's the thing: Tekken has been, for the most part, a series of fine tuning and refinement from what came before as opposed to radical new mechanics and systems with each new iteration. The last time we got an entry with as much radical change as 8 was 4. And we're all aware of 4's black sheep reputation in the series.
T4 is remembered fondly now, but popular opinion in the community at the time was skewed by legacy and pro players not liking the massive changes. Sound familiar?
If anything, Tekken 4 is more appreciated now that we don't have the Sweats screaming about it. Besides, Heat isn't even that drastic of a mechanical change, it's more the tuning that the t7 crowd is mad about (tho they'll pin it all on Heat coz it's an easier narrative to mantra about)
@@Dracobyte this video does a good job of explaining T4 fully ruclips.net/video/BnfHGNdBXTU/видео.htmlsi=YP909EGK6JIEdt1i but TL:DR is while the story and theme of the game was well received, the gameplay was trashed by legacy players and pros alike because of the uneven floors and wall interactions creating bugs and unpredictable gameplay, poor balancing and other things. Playing this game casually was supremely fun, but not conducive for competitive gameplay
I’m ngl I’m so sick and tired of people always shitting on t7 like it wasn’t the game that saved tekken from getting the soul calibur treatment. It was a flawed but fun game that rejuvenated tekken in many peoples eyes and had some of the greatest sets in the fgc
It’s like how people treat SF4 now, where it’s apparently one of the bad ones despite reviving the franchise and carrying a huge swath of the FGC on its back for years
@@patch3324 Top 8 reasons why T8 is BETTER than T7 1) Better loading times - T7 load times are absurd - T8 its a non issue 2) T7 looks UGLY - the game was dated even when it released in 2017 on console 3) T7 terrible story mode - narrator - no need to elaborate there 4) Worst Character endings probably since tekken 1 5) Lack of game modes 6) Mediocre stage music - and unfinished stages - infinite azure the clouds dont even move - snow stage no footprints - TAG 1 snow stage on PS2 had FOOTPRINTS 7) BROKEN characters -Akuma Geese No explanation needed - DLC pay to win characters - Kuni, leroy 8) T7 is the most consistently INCONSISTENT tekken game hitboxes and sidesteps to date T7 was the better E sport but it was NOT a better tekken game over T6 TAG2 and no not even T8 with all of its problems
I always felt like Tekken 8 was the response of Tekken 7, just two polar opposites of their core philosophies. That's why Tekken 8 is more Polarizing rather than universally hated.
I believe they came right out and said so. It's no secret that people felt T7 was played overly defensively, and was a lot of the time boring to watch. That's why T8 has so much flash using the heat system and heavily rewards offense/engagement.
@@Shade84I think Tekken fans keep forgetting that every Tekken since 3 has different philosophy, T4 was environment stuff, T5 made most hard stuff easier and neutral the core point, T6 was experimental with characters and combos, T7 was full defensive and T8 is full aggression. I wonder what will they do with Tekken 9, maybe they'll try to find the perfect balance 🤔
The issue with T7 is that the backdashing strategy combined badly with the OP CH game. In theory, the other player could approach as the opponent backdashes, but in T7 this often means risking running into a CH launcher. Still, it is far, far more dynamic, and decision rich, small tekken laden than this mess that is T8: everyone is a 50-50 rushdown mixup monster, with the capacity to exert chains of pressure with plus frames where the opponent is reduced to defending or guessing, taking forever to switch turns. Heat just makes everything worse, combos longer, and gameplay dumber. I like toning down Ch launchers and buffing SS, but backdash was also nerfed and characters have insane range-covering options that give them plus frames that make movement even more restrictive than in T7. Not to mention characters being dumbed down almost universally.
T8's been out for less than a year and people have already forgotten sentiments on T7 near the end of its life cycle: it relied too much on keep out, was boring to watch, and it was time for a change. Complaints about T8's mechanics and predatory monetization are valid, but let's not bullshit ourselves saying 7 was way better. Reminds me of MK fans wanting to go back to MK11, even though they called it trash right up until MK1 released. Hell, reminds me of call of duty and pokemon players too. Some people just like to bitch and gas up the past, which gets in the way of discussions on how to actually improve the game for the future.
I get the impression everyone's making a final push to have Tekken 8 adjusted for season 2, though I assume the devs already have a plan. I will agree, though, I've been tired of hearing the constant comparison between T7 and T8. The games were made intentionally different.
I agree and the only people that hate T8 are professionals and some streamers lol… everyone else loves it . I love it . I like it more everyday , even the customizations are cool and it’s more interesting to watch too.. the healing factors and heat make it so unpredictable of whose going to win but the game obviously takes skill still.. Arslyn ash won EVO again this year . People just have to let go of Tekken 7 or just go back and play it . But Tekken 7 will never be better than Tekken 8 in my opinion lol
the only reason Tekken 7 became good is because of the guest characters, if without Akuma, Geese or Noctis, the game will end up the same fate with TTT2. Ono helped Harada on this one that;s why Namco survived in T7
Tekken fans are toxic. Ive played since 5 and ive had the most fun with 8. I wasnt a fan of the tekken 7 back dash jab, back dash low kick, poke poke poke play style. It still had broken characters after a decade of release and patches akuma, marduk, geece etc. People forgot death combos were a thing in tekken 7? Tekken 8 is far more engaging and encourages you to counter hit and get your grey health back. Just far more engaging than the typcial poke poke poke poke poke style until someone messes up.
And that's valid. But as 2D game player, I don't understand why Tekken players... don't just play the game they prefer. We don't have to play the new shiny version of a game.
@@valeoncat13Right?! I love this comment. I prefer T7 AND T5 over T8. I haven't bought T8 and don't plan to. It's crazy to look at the mexican KoF community not letting go of '98 vanilla and the brazilian community not letting go of 2002 vanilla as well. Also, that Third Strike tournament was the most hype shit from EVO this year.
@@Lethalassassin27 load times and no cross-play are real bummers outside of gameplay preference. Graphics can be easily ignored, and netcode is not as dogshit as some people say it is.
I can't and your a disingenuous idiot if you think that tekken 7 is in any way better than 8 when it's so piss easy to mash into combos that eat up 85% of health and all it takes is another mash to win. Tekken 7 literally plays like a beta to this day the balance is absolute garbage and they made guest dlc characters broken for clout which isnt something tekken 8 does and if that's your idea of fun then youre what's wrong with the tekken community
Excellent video - i have said for YEARS. “Tekken 7 is the most consistently inconsistent tekken game to date” For the reasons you mentioned above T6 Tag 2 > Better tekken games imo T7 was just the better "E Sport"
Tekken 7 definitely had its problems but I just enjoyed the pace of the gameplay more in general, idk why everybody on Twitter feels like they need to dunk on everyone else’s opinion and prove it’s the wrong opinion or something lol. I probably would’ve liked DR the most if I knew about the competitive aspect of the game when I was like 14.
Thank you. That's the problem we T7 lovers have with T8. Never said T7 was perfect. But I want to die knowing what happened and how to improve it round 2. T8 plays too fast to download your opp. Most matches end in 12 or less seconds. T8 pros also die to the same setups low levels do even after labbing because of speed and you are usually (-) on block because of some stance transition that also masks 2 unblockable highs (U-Grab or G-Break) a launching Mid and a knockdown low to followup for 45-60 damage for blocking, all happening in 2 seconds? If T7 was 1x speed T8 is 4-5x speed that's the problem for me imo.
@@Perry_Talion My question is, if you like Tekken 7 that much and don't like 8, why don't you play that instead? The game is still available. Before getting an interest in Tekken, I was playing Blazblue, and that's what the Blazblue community did. Most stayed with the old game instead of moving on to the crazy tag version of the game with insane sandwich 4 way mixups with shit flying across the screen every quarter of a second. So instead of talking negative about Tekken 8 and raining on other peoples' parade, why not just boot up Tekken 7 and play that? Wouldn't you have more fun? Isn't it exhausting to complain like this?
@jeanschyso I already do that but I've already paid for T8 using the last of what I saved up for my "Guilt free high spend" budget for one game for the year. Other people also have their own reasons besides my own and your own too. Not all of us have the same motivations. I still play Tekken 8 because I love certain things while I hate other things. Also have to polish my skills and habits for when the game finally reaches an acceptable balance. T7 and T8 feel way different that a week away can actually cause sizable disadvantages. Works for everything else in life. I love my wife but we have problems I complain about. Doesn't mean I don't love her and should get another wife. Perhaps the problems are not that big but they are there. People who complain hoping for change love the game but the problems are glaring and hard to ignore. It's an abusive relationship but a relationship nonetheless.
Note how I never said T8 is bad. Only I stated where I find critical areas. I love the game but one should never be so loyal that they can never find criticism in the subject. T8 lets me down because I could be enjoying this game so much but I cannot and already invested in it.
@Perry_Talion it's a matter of taste for a lot of people so people will always disagree. But at least your comment is cival and not like every reactionary doomer online. People are too charged and love to bandwagon or complain at some arbitrary 'oversimplification/appealing to casuals'. It's just that civil discussion in fgc when comparing games is practically unheard of. I enjoyed T7 but had way more problems overall imo, people tried to play it like Street Fighter with all the backdashes and pokes. It was also just 'counterhit launcher the game' imo, you fish for the ch. Also the meta characters were way more aggregious compared to T8. That being said the aggressiveness in T8 is more to my tastes but I think everyone agrees the balancing at launch was a mess. Again everyone seems to glaze over that the game also hasn't been out 1 year nor had any arcade iterations to balance things. The monetization stuff is another topic but I think it's a bit overblown. I'd rather it not be there but it's pretty easy to just ignore it and just play the game. Most times it's a publisher decision and the Devs unfortunately don't have much say. The battle pass is pretty much free at this point and people act like there's a gun to there head when talking about mtx in any game.
Tekken vet here played since tekken 3. Tekken 7 is my favorite tekken, I pushed to emperor in that game. Pushed to tekken god in 8. I quit tekken 8 completely out of frustration for the systems. Not everybody hated or was tired of the defensive playstyle of 7. I really enjoyed it. You can sit there and say “well just adjust” yeah ive tried. Plenty of times and id say i have adjusted, but i simply just do not enjoy the aggression in tekken 8. I agree that some people are saying “real tekken” which think is wrong because tekken 8 is still the 8th tekken game lol. But yeah I just straight up dont enjoy the aggression at all so i will not be playing tekken 8.
honestly man every valid criticism of tekken 8's gameplay loop is met with another unrelated argument. rn its that tekken 7 was garbage the whole time i guess?? like it changes anything abt how tekken 8 plays
The thing I really liked about Tekken 7, that is entirely missing from my experience of Tekken 8, is that it felt like we were "In Neutral" very often. The game was relatively focused on small Tekken. There were a lot of moments where it felt like nobody was "In Control" - and it felt like I was always ALLOWED TO DO STUFF. If I got launched, you combo me, and at the end (unless you gave up combo damage for jump-over oki or something) we went back into neutral. My top 3 moves on every character were Jab, df1, generic d4. Small tools that were generically good, but had small reward. In Tekken 8, when I get hit by your plus on block mid with good tracking, I'm -17 and I have to hold literally any mix you want to apply. You can do a plus on block mid, do a WR move, do a hellsweep, grab. I can't sidestep or block, I can't armor or Rage art, Yoshi can't even flash. Those all die if I press any button, you're just too plus. My only option is stand block or crouch block. I am not allowed to DO STUFF. That's the most extreme example, but even at +5 oB its so oppressive. There's less small tekken, its entirely focused around BIG moves. Armor heat engagers and plus on block mids that do chip. df1's and generic d4's are depreciated, now you only use lows that are like +4 on hit. The problem with the AGGRESSION model is that only one player gets to be AGGRESSIVE at a time. If you're the one being AGGRESSIVE, I have to hold whatever mix you decide. If I guess wrong, you get to continue being AGGRESSIVE. If you launch me, at the end of your combo, you get to continue being AGGRESSIVE when I stand up. But then, as soon as I block your move and I get a 10 frame punish, suddenly your turn is over and I am now fully AGGRESSIVE. I never feel like I am "In Neutral" in T8 after the first engagement, because that would require somebody to take their foot of the gas pedal when they are in the drivers seat.
What i don't like is how tekken 8 does away with any other playstyle that isn't rushdown aggression. Thats incredibly reductive. Player expression be damned. Being punished for being defensive is not what many want tekken to be.
I think if they buffed backdashes again and nerfed the tracking and phantom range on skip neutral tools like demon paws, it would be a huge step in the right direction because there would be more neutral mindgames and movement
Balancing is not the issue. It’s the system itself that needs changing. Like the aggression. No amount of needing will fix this game unless they tackle the root problem
@@UserDoesNotExist570 I completely agree. Chip damage is one of the most egregious reasons to the system. Imagine being penalized for defense. Why bother blocking because my chainsaws on block do even more damage than jabs on hit.
The phantom range of demon paws, yes, i agree with that. I dont agree with backdashes buff.. its already tiring to play against ppl running away all the time just to force a whif or to spam keep out tools, i think that is the most toxic gameplay. Its not like u cant backdash situations in this game. Buffing backdash reduces the interaction because it would be much more rewarding to backdash anything than to actually commit to an atack or another defensive option (like sidesteps, powercrush or evasive moves) and i think it would turn the game into another tekken 7 where ppl only plays like Phidx show in this video.
Especially Claudio his demon paw reaches further than devil jins heat smash and is fast asf he's character that doesn't get talked about enough as far as needing balancing imo.
Tekken 7 = back dash- jab, back dash- low kick, back dash- jab, back dash- low kick Boring af. Its why only sweat lords liked it. Tekken 7 had weaker aide stepping than tekken 8 but back dashing was stronger in 7. He literally just showed you a clip here of tournament people just doing that 😂. It was an overly defensive game and not fun to watch as its just poke, poke poke, poke.
@@taseenmannan1202He's talking about TTT2 not T7. It's a fact that T7 nerfed all movement options. People were engaging more in TTT2 bc movement was better and they were confident they could evade and get out of the way at any time. In contrast, T7's backdash and SS were nerfed and once you were locked into a close range combat, you couldn't get out, so pros did everything to avoid that situation, mostly by jabbing and df1 and quickly falling back. Funny thing is they nerfed movement in T7 to encourage interaction but it got the opposite effect. They buffed SS in T8 bc they finally learned movement aka evasion is needed for more interaction
@@Datdaniel90 Amazing stages, sound effects and music, instant loading time, small combos, a ton of character intros and winposes. How i wish for a modern T5DR with new characters such as Lidia, Azu and Leroy.
Yeah I think 8 is closer to T5 but to say T7 is real and 8 is fake is a wild statement when 7 discouraged sidesteps and anything unique for movement.(hyperbole)
Something I rarely ever see people talk about is how T7 made it so that you can fully block during a backdash. Past Tekkens did not have this and I think this is also another part of the reason why defensive play was so strong in T7. This made it so that players who had a weak backdash would have an above average backdash. Most lows don't have the range to keep up with an above average backdash so the defending player could literally backdash all day taking all the weak, quick lows and just land their range 3+ launchers/CH launchers This is literally Kuni's gameplan BTW. And we all know how much we love Kuni
I think the biggest thing I took away from this video is that tekken 8 and older tekkens want you to make defensive decisions more frequently. In tekken 7 you were rewarded for choosing to disengage and not make a decision lest you get deleted by your opponent reading you. But in tekken 8 since backdashes are nerfed and ch’s are less crazy you are forced to constantly make offensive and defensive decisions. Defense is still rewarded, you are simply rewarded for making correct decisions as opposed to being rewarded for avoiding the risk of making a bad decision.
if it were true for t8, there wouldn't be so many moves with so much tracking that also skip neutral ( demon paws ) there wouldn't be random bs like expulsion ( which is a lot more evasive than other round stealing moves ), guns, 5 feet swords, every character wouldn't have a stance, I can go on. The problem with t8 is too many things have changed at the same time and it makes the game scrubby, look at ranks now, slowly and surely ranks mean less and less the skill you have and more the amount of bs your character can put out. Just watch sajam slam competitors they reached so high in ranks but when you see them play, it is mostly flowcharting your strongest moves.
As someone who only played 7 and 8 at a super casual level, Tekken 7 is better imo. Had way more fun playing 7 than 8 and the new approach to make the game hyper aggressive to lure in new players might work short term, but I don't see it is going to work on the long run.
I honestly wish they would fix the strings so we were back at DR. Right now sidestepping a string just to get clipped by the last hit while trying to wiffpunish is so frustrating and it makes sidestepping feel very risky. We also have characters (toptiers) that have safe mid, mid strings that are in the range of -3 on block (looking at you drag) where the second hit also behaves like a homing move. Honestly if they make sidestepping strings viable i think the game will feel better and we as players feel like the right read gets rewarded instead of "well shit, that move just went 180 on me". I honestly think tekken 8 is hella more fun than 7 but it just needs some tweeks to become fantastic and less frustrating to play.
Really well put together video that pinpoints exactly what was missing in T7 and how Namco have overcompensated in T8. The direction they moved in by removing Dragunov b4,3 tracking gives me hope that Namco does understand this and will hopefully bring the changes in season 2. I believe removing tracking from some of the re aligning strings and slightly buffing the backdash would put the gameplay in a healthy and exciting spot, now just have to hope this comes true ❤
I understand now thanks to your video. When I watched that clip on mute, the amount of poke into back dashing to full screen was very noticeable but I didn't realise how little interaction was happening.
Also, T7 Legendary Knee v JDCR match was S1 of Tekken 7.1, after they've had YEARS to cook in arcade. And arcade was disgustingly imbalanced then. People compare
Tekken players are a bunch of whiners. Many of them not even slightly above the average but they act like understanding everything just because they watched tmm analysis videos. This is the one and only truth.
The introduction to this video only proves that it's still trying to sugarcoat Tekken 8 LOL. It's not only about the movement it's about the whole system. If a game almost got 9 patches in a short period of time after it's release, then there's really something wrong with the game period.
.... This is the first Tekken game that had no arcade phase. Tekken got an insane amount of patches before reaching console in almost every iteration in the last 15 years.
@@UndefeatableKing it took a lot of patches but not this much for a short period of time and they still can't fix the issue in rank matches. Its not only about the game mechanics its about the whole game itself.
@@mogucentral3820 it was literally 2 years of arcade for every game. That's not a few patches, but believe what you want. Aside from a few things, the game is fine to me, not sure what rank issues you're talking about
@@UndefeatableKing if you're ok with it, then good on you. but majority of the players are not happy with it. You can check the steam count per day. from 49k players on its launch to 5k per day now. unlike in SF6, they still average around 25k-30k players on steam and its only on steam. How much more in PS4 and PS5 players.
@@mogucentral3820 I don't gain validation on the quality of a game from steam counts. The game is unquestionably better now than it was on release. Street Fighter has always had more popularity than Tekken.
To be honest the first time i noticed sidestep was so much worse in t7, i was already bummed and having to play with a combo system less complex than bound (i loved the "is gonna hit the wall first or should i bound early than hit the wall? can i use floor and wall break to gain even more damage?" aspect of t6) made me instantly dislike t7 from the get go. Having rage arts didn't help. Because of it i wasn't hyped for t8, than i played beta, did sidestep predicting a jab from my friend next to me (we both were on training mode), and not only it worked against his straight mid, it lead into a launch, combo and than my friend goes "oh the heat shit is bound on combo" and i simply fell in love. Yeah t8 is ultra levels of agressive and constantly playing close, but having a better corckscrew alongside bound, heat dash being a more fun version of rage drive for me, and having crazy sidesteps like t6 (previously my fav tekken), just makes the game feel awesome to me. Yeah i'm down for a refinement of these systems and the agression getting toned down some way, but you'll never convince me t8 is worse or less tekken than 7, it's not.
I don’t play competitively but love seeing the innovation of the fighting game genre since first playing SFT, MK, and Doujin fighters as a kid. These games are for everyone, not just a competitive scene, and people need to remember that.
Damn PhiDX you are so real for this. Dudes gonna be hating on this take so much, suddenly everyone doing revisionist history about how Tekken 7 was the 'GREATEST EVER' shit and like.... man.... naaaahh it really ain't.
Just want to say man, youve been doing gods work for both old heads and new comers alike. Tekken 7 was my first Tekken that i decided to take serious and by that i mean learn what frames were, play ranked, lab, practice and play almost literally daily. Before that, the last tekken i had was tekken 6 back in 2007 when i was like 12 or 13 just pressing buttons with friends. I truly loved Tekken 7 but i could see its clear glaring faults, i also really enjoy tekken 8 now but i keep finding myself getting burnt out. I really appreciate this in depth look at the old tekkens, it really helps give perspective on the current systems and also helps alleviate the stress of tekken 8 that ive been feeling.
I think the string tracking change would be interesting, but I also feel like some of the strings should track. It would make sense in some cases that the character would turn a little bit seeing his opponent stepped to the side in some cases. It would feel weird if no tracking happened at all. I'm sure there is a balance to be found.
I'm laughing at some of these unhinged hater comments attacking Phi (on Twitter and even in his yt comments) because objectively wouldn't he love T7 more since that's when his career as a pro popped off? If he were just glazing T8 blindly and it'd be super favorable for him, wouldn't he just be going to tournaments left, right and centre instead of making comprehensible and helpful guides to help beginners (which he has done for T7 as well btw) and bring more players onto the scene? Hell, even him bringing up that clip of him winning against Knee but then talking about how that was a big problem even though he WON shows that he's not just mindlessly favoring one or the other for the sake of his benefit.
see the point that you bring up that phi is putting aside his bias is true but is it true for speedkicks ? he was only ever relevant in T6 and TT2, I can clearly see where his bias towards those games comes from. if he can openly hate t7 for yrs, why can't arslan hate t8? these full-screen shenanigans are very cherry picked examples where first clip is from season 1 ( people didn't adjust to the system yet ) and last is phi's clip whose style is hitting and running away to invoke noctis' superior moves in range. I commend phi but i don't think this was an objective breakdown more like selling whatever you believe.
@@garvitdhamija9033 People will always be biased and can't be "purely" objective to be fair. We're all shaped by our circumstances and experiences. At some point you have to realise maybe some things are more "BIASED" in a purely negative sense only when someone just doesn't have the same exact opinions as you or something. Idk, man. My point is, they're giving insight from their povs as honestly as they can. Like what do you want these guys to do at some point? They're not just being like "RAAAA X TEKKEN IS THE BEST TEKKEN ONLY RAAAAA" as some people are seemingly making them out to be. I feel like some people don't want nuance and just want their way or the high way.
It’s important to understand the pros, cons and design philosophy for each entry. 7 was and is not balanced. However, it was THE game for people who loved defensive style. And Tekken has commonly been a series that develops from each iteration (even 4 despite removing some legacy things). But 8 (just like 4) didn’t just progress it, they blasted away in a new direction. We as the players need to understand what kind of game the tekken team is trying to make (pretty clear what it is), and give constructive criticism to help make it a better Tekken 8. Not a tekken 7, not a 5, but the best version a Tekken 8 game can be. This does mean it’s going to be a very oppressive game for its life, but we can help guide it where it doesn’t feel overly oppressive as it does currently (damn, vanilla version was wild). I’m a fan of what they’re trying to do. And clearly some things are too much, or too little and that balance needs to be progressively reached. (Also makes me wonder what other direction they’ll take in the future. Tekken 12, VR only, imagine)
Nah, the whole gameplay philosophy underpinning T8 is hot garbage in my opinion. I want no part of it. As for 'constructive criticism', that to me means pushing the developers for a port of older games for contemporary hardware, replete with decent netplay, so that those of us who'd far rather play those games have a viable means of playing them online that doesn't involve faffing about with emulation.
I agree with that that criticism helps make Tekken 8 better, and I feel like people need to stop defining what "real Tekken" is whatever may it be from what approach and styles the previous games promoted with their systems (better defensive play in T7, better movement in T8, etc). In my opinion, people who look up to pros (even though there isn't any harm in looking up to pros) need to stop parroting what the pros think until they've got to hear multiple people's (from pros to non-pros) opinion on the current state of the game. Tekken 8 can be steered with fair and constructive criticism from the fans and players, and from what we've seen recently with the Genmaji DLC stage fiasco, it seems the devs and the publishers are willing to hear us out. It's just a matter of time until the next major balancing patch and the next DLC character gets released, and hopefully over time that "balance" will be reached in some point.
Gotta disagree, Tekken 7 wasn't designed for defensively players in fact it was the opposite. Tag 2 was THE game for defensive players but people hated the rage system. Tekken 7 nerfed your defensive options and made it so most of the cast could blow you up with CH launchers the whole match so people HAD to be defensive with worse defensive tools. It felt horrible for characters with lesser counter hit options and or worse movement
"Tekken 7 wasn't as great as you think" but I think it was dogshit? No offense, Phi 😅 The only people I see missing 7 are, frankly, random-ass players. As in, they gambled a lot in a game where it was impossible to mitigate their volatility with consistent defensive options. And I'm not talking out my ass here, these are guys on my friends list, some are even AT MY LOCAL. And you know how they play? Hopkick & parry/power crush addicts who are big big mad whenever I sidestep their shit. Who look lost when I don't freeze up because they poked me once. Basically, 7 was a game where you HAD to respect worse players because of the volatility, 8 is far more consistent. Anyone who talks about how they miss 7 is telling on themselves.
I think the biggest gripe I have with t8 is actually how much the camera and gameplay zooms in and slows down. Like I think it destroys the flow of these sequences in a really bad way and it's a very ham fisted attempt to give new players extra time to think that I don't think works too well. It's cool for like, an hour, and then it starts to grate on you. I'd like to see string tracking removed too, since that just makes sense in my brain, but tbh the heat/rage art time stop is far bigger an issue to me.
Tekken 8 is my first Tekken game, and I really, really like the game. But even my biased ass can tell some changes should probably be made. Especially when it comes to heat. I say heat engagers should have two modes: either you could use them like normal moves or have the choice to try and engage heat with them, the latter leaving you more negative/punishable. If you're potentially gaining +17 and a full heat bar, you should be taking a genuine risk. But I also wouldn't want these moves to be gutted entirely just for the sake of nerfing heat. Two versions of the moves would allow for the best of both worlds. Another thing I'd like is for heat dashes on block to give specific frame advantage/disadvantage depending on the move used. I don't understand why such a subjectively strong tool is completely homogenised across the entire cast. Heat dashing with Steve's WR2 makes it worse on block, while Kazuya's db1,2 goes from -19 to a pressuring tool. I genuinely don't understand why it's like this. Apart from that, everything else is stuff I'm probably unqualified to comment on. However, I will say that my brain likes it when I'm doing KBDs, so if they buffed them, I'd be pretty happy about it.
What you said in a previous video about the “mindless defence” of Tekken 7 really opened my eyes to the meta of that game and why the devs moved towards the style of Tekken 8
Props to speedkicks for really taking the time to educate/responds to people and props to the people asking for being nice and genuinelly opened to learn, god knows it's rare on twitter especially nowadays
Before watching the video, im curious how t7 was not great when this game was literally the reason why we have t8. If t7 was so bad then it would'nt have the most sales out of all tekken
It would be a failure if it wasn't the most sold tekken. It was on the most consoles and also was the only tekken for 8 years. Wtf do you mean that means it was great? It was the only tekken we had to play on modern consoles and pc
@@LadyMourne you do realize that being available on multiple consoles doesn't mean people are going to buy it right? There needs to be an interest in the game for it to sell as well as it did and it was only able to last 8 years because people liked the game
@stankynut3832 if people are faced with a single choice when they want to get into tekken, then is it really a choice at all? 8 years to surpass 10 million units sold versus tekken 3's 2 years to sell 8.5 million units. Not impressed
Imagine still being so naive to think that just because something is successful, its good... the most popular games, movies, songs, books, whatever are ALWAYS the mediocre ones. The majority of people wants easy, simple stuff where they dont have to think too much. Really well-made things are too often way to detailled to be recognized as such by the majority of people. Its exhausting for them to see the different nuances something has to offer. Thats why generic Pop music is the most succesful one, thats why McDonalds is super successful, thats why Transformers and Fast and the Forious are some of the most successful movie franchises, thats why EA and Ubisoft are successful video game companies, despite its obvoius that ALL OF THIS STUFF is utter trash to the core. That people in 2024 still argue with sales numbers to measure quality is just tiresome and sad
@@LadyMourne first of all Tekken isn't competing with itself dude. They aren't going to release two of the same game if the previous one is still performing well. They are competing with other fighting games so if you wanna compare the choice compare it to choosing mk or street fighter over Tekken. Second of all t7 predecessor Tekken tag 2 sold under 2 million copies so it is impressive that T7 sold the most at the time considering the bad reputation the previous game got.
I feel like "real" Tekken is whichever Tekken people are engaging with at that point in time. Since we have hindsight (and we still don't know what Tekken 8 will inevitably end up in it's end cycle), just the drastic changes between T7's beginning and ending showcased that even within that, people's playstyles had to change but it was gradual and people were already invested along for the ride (and people got used to that for YEARS before T8). By "X Tekken isn't REAL Tekken" logic, one can argue first era T7 wasn't "real" Tekken compared to late T7 Tekken and vice versa. I think having them be the complete opposite to 8 (which has the most biggest system changes since 4's if I'm not mistaken) is a jarring but ultimately good thing in the long run as they're able to (hopefully) chip it down to a point where we could get something more like T6/TT2. Ultimately a lot of this also does come down to favorable playstyles and whether someone really likes one or the other (and if you're a pro you'd have to adapt either way) and that does play an integral role into enjoying anything. Anyway, I know this won't really affect me that much with my level of play so ultimately it doesn't really matter to me (being a low level player comes with more priorities to even begin comprehending stuff shown in this video 😂) but that's just my two cents on it. Most people like me only really care if they have a character they really like to play (I have a friend who's first fg/Tekken was T8 but went to T7 solely because she found Miguel and fell in love lmao). Apologies if this is hella incoherent 😅Great breakdown!
As a Lars main in tekken 7 and a victor main in tekken 8, I out of everybody have the right to give my humble opinion. To be completely honest for a moment, I don’t have anything to add to this.
I really appreciate this kind of deeper analysis trying to understand the pros, cons and reasons instead of the usual yapping most people resort to online when there is something they don't like
That T7 JDCR-Knee fight was called "The Best Tekken Set in History" at some point on youtube, i think it's Rev Major 2017 So the OP Speedkicks cited that said "This is real Tekken" is a big of a stretch, that was pretty much lightning in a bottle gameplay
T7 was never perfect, but it sure wasn't as streamlined and homogenized as T8. Unless they regulate their obsession over constant 50/50s and pay more attention to balance out defense/offense and overall general balance of the characters, this whole dissatisfaction with the game won't change anytime soon.
Tekken 5 was Peak,,, people arguing between what real tekken is 7 or 8 are so funny... REAL Tekken is TEKKEN 5 and 5 DR, the second closest thing to real tekken is tekken 6
As someone who started playing tekken 8 seriously for the first time with drills and an hour a day of specific practice etc. I quite enjoy t8 still just because it’s loud, exciting and I know I’m fighting a huge uphill battle in ranked vs people who have years of experience vs me. At 197k tekken power I face all sorts of opponents which require me to rethink each encounter a new and that alone that challenge each time I accept a new round in itself is fun to me. No matter if I win or not - especially when I can afterwards recognize where my fault was. I hope once season 1 ends the new balance patch will improve the game even further and we can all enjoy it more. After all a bigger community to play with and to come up with setups and strats is what thrives this game and scene. So once in December the TWT final happens I hope that the patch comes soon. Until then I just play as best as I can. Enjoy more lobbies and local offline 1v1 sessions and learn with and everyone together.
Noone thinks Tekken 7 was great. Tekken 7 sucked hard, Tekken 8 sucks just a little more. Last good Tekken game was Tekken 5 DR, from Tekken 6 and on it is going downhill and in a wrong direction.
As someone who started with Tekken 8, its interesting how interactive the game is at close range, while also a surreal experience of waiting for someone to backdash to throw out a fireball. Great video! It put everything in very easy to understand terms, and I got to learn about possibly my new favorite fighting game.
I genuinely like how the neutral works in this game. The neutral triangle is balanced again as opposed to tekken 7 where statistically you would win by abusing keep outs and crazy backdashes. And when I first tested tekken 8 during the beta I popped off really hard when I sidestepped Jin's electric for the first time and when I played . However, this game doesn't feel fun when you get launched and your back is against the wall while your opponent has heat activated and you just have to hold it while your lifebar is getting chipped away. These issues are very clear but we are still in the first year of Tekken 8, and I know tekken games tend to change drastically from the arcade version to the console version. ( or in this case the debut of tekken 8 ) This is why I won't give up and I actually wanna go pro in this game. Also it's kind of funny to see the contrast between the online community ( reddit, youtube, tweeter, etc ... ) and my local community. I live in Madagascar where the cost of the game and internet is way too much so people only play in like playrooms offline, and since the consoles we are playing on aren't ours, we don't care about the battlepasses and Tekken shop thing. We are just here for the gameplay. And our community is as big as ever right now with a 96+ local tournament every month and we even got a challenger event. There will be a tournament on Saturday and Harada and Nakatsu will actually attend that tournament to see my local community. I find it really weird how tekken is very controversial everywhere else while in our country it's the best it has ever been.
I was trying to get my friends to come back to TTT2 from 7 lol. Didn’t work out. I still have hope for a 3. It’s my favorite version of Tekken til this day.
Video gives me a BIT more hope for tekken 8, i dont think its a bad game, but i do think its not fun, and probably wont ever change But seeing this breakdown does give me hope MAYBE with a few big patches it could harken back to what made tekken sick, will it ever be perfect, probably not (i prefer T5 style combos, i doubt they'll cut combo length or come back mechanics, so stuck with having to sit through 10 second combo ads inbetween my moments of actually playing the game :/) but it might be something actually fun to playing some day
While I fully agree that the threat of a low parry and extremely high damaging ch launchers existed, I feel like the poking style of play combined with movement still existed in the game. In fact, even though we know Arslan's defense to be godlike, he was a poking monster and he wouldn't really be afraid to be in range 2-0 against the opponent. Knee's evo run of 2022 was also so similar. His finals against khan's geese, a walking nuke, was him being close jabbing, side step left ducking, sidestep left jabbing, using kenpo effectively, etc. He wasn't outside of the red zone for long periods of time. Also, while it does suck for the opponent, hitting someone with a CH launcher does feel good and as the audience feels epic. I still really enjoy t8, I think both games have a lot to offer and have their flaws. The later stages of tekken 7 with power creep and a slow transition to 50-50s sucked. On the other hand having to deal with even more 50-50 interactions in t8 and turn stealing mechanics also doesn't feel the best and personally, having to use heat burst/power crushes feels really scrubby to me honestly, but beyond that, the game still has a lot of depth to it unlike what some people are claiming. I really enjoy tekken 8 and the satisfaction of making defensive reads with sidesteps, option selects and even backdashing in some scenarios still exists.
Incredibly insightful video. For me, I am perfectly happy w' Tekken 8's style of play. I have noticed that my gameplay is a LOT better than my Tekken 7 gameplay and I spent nearly 650h in 7 with a max. rank of Vanquisher. In 8 at 281h, I have two characters at Garyu, both Mishimas, with massively high win rates so I can likely push for Ruler ranks. I put this down to 2 things: 1.) I have grown as a player and gotten better. 2.) Tekken 8's style of play, both offensively and defensively, suits me a lot more. I find myself stepping more in 8 and being rewarded handsomely for it. The over-reliance on an insane kbd in 7 held me back and I was not a fan of it. At all. I never felt like I was interacting with the opposite player, whereas in 8 I feel like it is such an interactive game with the different options we have available to us. Thanks for the always-awesome content my dude. EDIT: Just to add something - you are a good player, dang it! Your level of knowledge and gameplay is epic and your ability to portray that across the entirety of Tekken's skill base is rare. Don't be so hard on yourself!
I loved T7 and played it more than any other Tekken. Tekken 8 isn't for me personally. I might give it another chance if they add my main but I doubt it will happen
I also want to add in the old Tekken games(from T1-T6 IIRC) you can also influence people's playstyle, by changing the handicap; the length of the lifebar. Correct me if I'm wrong, in Korea during the T6 era they loved to play on +1 setting at the arcades or around 110-120% handicap on the console version I guess. While in other regions many of us stuck with 100%. Or when you look at the more recent T3 matches, some people seem to enjoy longer casual matches by increasing the handicap to 140%. Old Tekken games are really cool. There are also things I really like in T8. So yeah this is not a hate comment towards T8.
Has everyone forgotten the most important part about tekken? No matter how much we agree or disagree on certain things it brought you guys together as a community whether its through discord, the forums, in person, i believe that is the most important part
Respect for an in-depth analysis in a charged environment. Personally, I'm having a ton of fun in Tekken 8 and think it has gone in a very healthy direction for the series. Where it goes too far with 50/50s, we can push for it to be toned down. Improving sidestepping certainly doesn't strike me as a bad idea. But rewarding proactivity to change an overly defensive game is generally a good thing for the health and vibrancy of a game, and making more aggressive options become more likely to lead to rewards was the right creative decision in my view.
I wholeheartedly agree, though i have to say that Tekken 8’s problem doesn’t really seem to be that offense is more rewarding than defense, but rather that the reward that offense brings comes with very little risk. There is no incentive to not mash your weird gimmicks or constantly throw a mix-up.
💯‼️
I love that the aggressive options are amazing in this game, but I would love the defensive options to be almost as good.
@@Android_Andy Is that really true? I feel like each defensive option's reward increases with risk. The least risky being stand guarding rewards you with either block punish damage on non safe moves, or your turn back on neg on block moves. The risk in this game is there are moves that punish stand guard either with plus on block, or chip damage, pressuring you to pick a more risky defensive option. Armor moves and keep out/jab out can reward you with counter hits, damage, or just stealing back your turn, but they also have risks of either not being safe, or duckable/ backdashable, etc. You have parries which counter pressure, but they can be whiff punished if mistimed. Movement, the strongest defensive option, rewards you with launchers, but obviously if you're moving you aren't blocking and can get hit if you choose the wrong option at the wrong time. The risk to offense has always been defensive counterplay, but you have to actively choose the right option. It can't just be block and move around until it's my turn. The game moved from "Can you hit me?" which was based off spacing and movement, to "I know what you're gonna do next." Which is based on reads. Risk assessment. Pattern recognition and timing and string knowledge. It's a way more frustrating game, because defense is no longer passive. You have to actively partake in being defensive.
Every Tekken game is about choosing options you think are likely to work out best for you based on reads, but it's really interesting to compare the different option spreads:
* Any Rock / Paper / Scissors feels good (e.g. attack / sidestep / realign) because you win 1/3 of the time, lose 1/3, and tie 1/3, so 2/3 of the time you feel a'ight
* Backing out to range 4 is like forcing the tie: Never feels bad, but it's not exciting either, so it's relatively boring
* But 50/50s are the opposite: You only feel really good 1/4 of the time (blocking the low) and it feels bad 1/2 of the time
Tekken 8, then, is an improvement in interactivity over 7, but could probably tone down the 50/50s (especially heat)?
Tekken 8 will be real Tekken when Tekken 9 releases.
That's what I'm saying since the release of this game hates never gonna end people always find something to hate and complain about
No when Tekken 9 releases nothing will have changed and Tekken 8 will still suck but in comparison it might seem better than 9, because the series is getting progressively worse.
believe it or not it's possible to have a fighting game sequel that is largely praised and seen as better than the previous entry by the majority of the community.
@@legosuperbricks9861we will continue to have ppl like you constantly have doom and gloom negative comments about every new release trying to convince ppl that the new game is ass.
Facts
Real Tekken is when me and my cousins emulate Tekken 4 on a shitty laptop in my Grandma’s basement.
I just to do that on the school chromebook
Tekken 3 greatest hits on a dusty ps1
Real tho
The realist.
correct
Tekken 8 is real tekken because it’s the only one i’ve played
same
real
He just like me fr
Same
Bro just like me fr
Yall complaining about the balancing. I just want Tekken 6/Tekken Tag 2 customization and Tekken force and team battle back. Give me my single player content HARADA!!!
Wholeheartedly agree
TTT2 is still my favourite Tekken, was it balanced? Hell naw, but being able to play on the same team as my mate and make wacky combos is some of the most fun I've ever had in Tekken
i just want a gloves/arms option lol
Treasure Battle too. And more incentives to use fight money. and bowling
Big facts 💯
Real Tekken is trying to finish arcade mode on tekken 3 only using deathfist
I’m sure the comments will be completely civil and not biased in any way, shape or form :)
Shirley
People have been complaining about Tekken 6, 7, Tag 2, Revolution and now 8. The people that complain are the most vocal ones. It never changes
none of those games received the amount of hate 8 is getting.
Yea I even feel like street fighter 6 is pretty loved by the community but I still see more hate than praise
@@legosuperbricks9861tekken 7 was so unbalanced.. the akuma hate, the leroy hate, the fahkumran hate, the geese hate, if you dont pick these characters you lose and u have to pay for them.. its practically pay to win game
And it's the same people who yell everytime that is the same game, but always saying they want a game like 5.
And ngl, Tekken 5 is a masterpiece, but it's annoying how many times I encounter someone who says 6 was the decline of Tekken, and they played like 1 hour of it.
PD: Sorry for My English
not just that, Im gonna complain about this comment too
The way he actually HAS TO do hardcore disclaimers because a significant chunk of the community has auch a hate boner for the game right now, that they call everyone who does not literally shit on t8 a shill. Its insane
I’ve been called a shill for liking tekken 8, and I’m not a content creator 😂 people just love to hate
actually the vast majority of people just don't care about those losers. They enjoy the game while the few crybabies cry. It's only the crybabies that cry to these people, hence why they're the only ones getting answered. Just enjoy the game, it's the most fun tekken right now. Numbers speak more than crybabies
People lived through Leroy and Akuma AND Kuni for years in T7 but one year of Tekken 8 is too much???
-There's no better 3D game out there
-Online just good enough for people to play against each other consistently compared to past titles
-The game being on PC for the first time really spiked up interest and ownership of the game
-The scene that surrounds the game rather than the game itself most of the time (SF5 flop on release, FGC drought, hype tournaments back to back with impeccable stories coming out of the game; Qudans returning, Lil Majin run, Panda winning, Arslan comeuppance... and so).
It's not really the game itself, but rather what goes behind the scenes. The game is just a catalyst. That is the reason people see it with rose tinted glasses.
@@FahmiZFX facts
Everyone in T8 plays like akuma bro
dont forget fahk
Leroy lasted like a month before he was nerfed to the ground, Kuni was never that big of a problem and Akuma was a problem if you were a Tekken God already.
I'll be honest, the only thing these old clips are doing for me is making me want Armor King in T8 even more.
I noticed nostalgia somehow made people ignore or forget the absolute TORTURE we went through in T7
I swear if ya'll get rescued from being taken hostage or sm ya'll say: "it was so much better back when we had the terrorists fr fr🙏"
some of these mfs never fought release leroy, akuma, kuni etc and it shows
T7's problems really wasn't on the public consciousness much because SF5 stunk and superseded just about any of the mistakes that T7 was making
@@sliippy2152release Leroy was literally torture to play against. Remember top 8 full of Leroy lol.
@@giteshdhirthose are individual characters being balanced poorly, i think when people complain about t8 they talking about the game as a whole
T7 didn't fall off until S3. Season 2 was great.
I think the big problem with the discourse surrounding T7 vs T8 is that we’re comparing a game in its final form after 2 years of testing in arcades in T7 to a new game with a brand new mechanic in T8 that’s not even done with its first season.
I’m not satisfied with how slow, or at times how negligent, the devs have been to deal with character balancing or heat related bugs and overly powerful heat mechanics, but my theory is that they’ve allowed the game’s current meta to play out as it is so they can analyse community opinions and pro players’ interactions with heat, before commiting to a huge heat rework that’s likely coming in the season 2 patch. I also think that’s why they’re waiting to adjust the heat mechanic before making sweeping changes to the character meta and vastly changing the properties of moves, in case the changes they make aren’t compatible with the changes they make to heat or any other new game mechanics they add or remove.
TL;DR stop comparing a game with 8 years of balancing and tweaks to a game in its first year with a brand new game mechanic, and huff some of this Season 2 copium with me
😂😂 That Season 2 copium hits different
@ I got 500 hours in on T8 but I can’t do another 500 if the game stays like this for another year 💀
Dude, tekken seven, even in the final version, was not balanced.
The only copium in your comment was you framing it like 8 years of balancing in T7 was it getting better overtime lol, T7 was getting worse and worse the more they introduced newer balance patches and characters lol.
Remember how they try to remove the busted Akuma wall setup just to remove all character's wall setup, and Akuma was the only one left with broken wall setup. And how they introduced insanely OP Leroy, Lidia, and Fark. Then can't nerf the OP character properly without gutting them from S-tier into unusable F-tier states, they just gave DVJ the same S-Tier to F-Tier treatment in both late-T7 recently in T8 lol.
You're admitting that T8 is a full price beta + DLCs + microtransactions, great.
I commend PhiDx for trying to fight back against all the doomers. These analytical takes are far more refreshing than "casino bad T8 sucks"
You're the type to pick akuma only spam fireballs,trips and helicopter kicks. Shutup. Chip damage is stupid,heat is stupid,rewarding button mashers is stupid,only a few characters have good side stepping,heavy use of meta characters,and non stop spamming of evo combos. It's so obvious most players are doing what they have seen online. There are no innovative plays. Only dragonov running attack. Kazuya 3 hit launcher. Its boring and people rightfully hate it.
omg no string realign would be so goood imagine no more jin round start 2,1,4
you can actually counterplay
i think tracking and non tracking moves being more defined helps a lot
being left without tracking options feels bad and getting caught by random moves tracking also feels bad
that and having better backdashes can be really helpful and make the game more engaging
Tekken 8 is super aggressive but it feels like the first tekken where you can use the whole move list of a character
bro..... no
Not even close.
Whole movelist? You meant drag's movelist contains only 10 moves?
this comment section is bad take galore
Yeah, because they gutted a lot of moves. Also, that's only true if you weren't very creative with your character. Save some legacy characters in Tekken 7 who had a lot of leftover moves from previous games, most of the movelist from a character was viable and made for a specific situation.
PhiDX just wanna say I appreciate the grounded positivity you bring to the community. T8 ain’t perfect ofc, but some people are almost getting off on hating it, I feel.
Grounded positivity? He's literally trying to incite wars between T8 and T7 fans.
@@azuresaiyan9005 yea ur part of the problem then
Honestly, while i look at 7 with a little rose tint, i think objectively 8 has the potential to be a way better game then 7 ever could hope to have been, and i hope the team gets the support from not only the publisher, but as well community figures like you Phi to help them make Tekken 8 the best game it can be. I still havent quite found my footing or a main in 8, and i miss parts of 7 so much, but i cant deny that i do not miss so much of the issues that plagued 7 from launch; bad netcode, bad movement (both the actual movement and the fact that everyone and their mother had a safe on block fast homing mid CH launcher for some reason), the 0 commitment BS (like magic 4)...
I wanted to thank you, PhiDX, for helping me to better understand how to adapt to Tekken 8s style of gameplay, and for keeping a positive attitude as I feel you have. Its genuinely helped me to better tempery own view of the game, and have more fun in it then i could have imagined given my feelings at launch.
@PhiDX I've watched about 10 mins in and there are two major problems with the footage Speedkicks used to argue his and your point:
1. They are selected for to prove his points. I would bet hard that there are a little less, an equal amount or way more clips of Tekken 7 that counter his arguments/thoughts than support them. But he did not look for those and probably just looked for the most obvious ones to back up his side/exaggerate the degree of issue more than it was. Which might have been dime a dozen. But credit where it's due, these particular comparisons in the video wasn't as egregious/obvious as the one he did around April which had me facepalm.
2. There are other footage of Tekken 7 that can be selected for where the games of pros is a lot more contested with many more decisive interactions per round. Which lead to my second point that the comparison used by speedkicks was improper because up till Tekken 8, the diversity of playstyles was immensely significant due to characters not being all rush down like they are now. Different characters influenced the flow of combat way more back then so it doesn't make sense or is fair to compare the T6 armor king vs bryan who are both poke and counterhit fishing characters to a T7 Dragonuv vs Feng match, where dragonuv in T7 isnt the most optimal character to tie down evasive playstyles with feng being one of the most evasive tin cans you can fight. The lack of interactions and decisive hitting are very much due to that fact. I would say if the comparison featured "T7 armor king vs bryan" it would look a lot more similar to that T6 video of armor king vs bryan. It might be even more aggressive. at the very least, it would be more accurate to find a set and compare T6 Dragonuv vs Feng to T7 Dragonuv vs Feng. But that might not be possible to find ofc. The fact remains that speedkicks is wack for thinking this proves his point. It made no sense tbh.
Speedkicks didn't find the first he's replying to a guy calling that clip as peak gameplay of Tekken 7.
Also I don't know how anyone whose played the older games could think the movement nerf in T7 (along with the slight backdash block buff) didn't nerf offensr significantly compared to past titles.
Here's the thing: Tekken has been, for the most part, a series of fine tuning and refinement from what came before as opposed to radical new mechanics and systems with each new iteration. The last time we got an entry with as much radical change as 8 was 4. And we're all aware of 4's black sheep reputation in the series.
T4 is remembered fondly now, but popular opinion in the community at the time was skewed by legacy and pro players not liking the massive changes. Sound familiar?
Why is Tekken 4 the Black Sheep of the series?
Tekken 4's Gameplay wise, it's really bad and unbalanced plus the roster kinda sucks. But the story and atmosphere? Beautiful masterpiece.
If anything, Tekken 4 is more appreciated now that we don't have the Sweats screaming about it.
Besides, Heat isn't even that drastic of a mechanical change, it's more the tuning that the t7 crowd is mad about (tho they'll pin it all on Heat coz it's an easier narrative to mantra about)
@@Dracobyte this video does a good job of explaining T4 fully ruclips.net/video/BnfHGNdBXTU/видео.htmlsi=YP909EGK6JIEdt1i
but TL:DR is while the story and theme of the game was well received, the gameplay was trashed by legacy players and pros alike because of the uneven floors and wall interactions creating bugs and unpredictable gameplay, poor balancing and other things. Playing this game casually was supremely fun, but not conducive for competitive gameplay
I’m ngl I’m so sick and tired of people always shitting on t7 like it wasn’t the game that saved tekken from getting the soul calibur treatment. It was a flawed but fun game that rejuvenated tekken in many peoples eyes and had some of the greatest sets in the fgc
Tekken 7 was the better E-Sport….it was NOT better than T6 or Tag 2
and i am having more fun with T8 over T7
@JIX9ISLER1986 - to each their own, T7 is better than T8. Sorry not sorry!
@@patch3324 nah
It’s like how people treat SF4 now, where it’s apparently one of the bad ones despite reviving the franchise and carrying a huge swath of the FGC on its back for years
@@patch3324 Top 8 reasons why T8 is BETTER than T7
1) Better loading times - T7 load times are absurd - T8 its a non issue
2) T7 looks UGLY - the game was dated even when it released in 2017 on console
3) T7 terrible story mode - narrator - no need to elaborate there
4) Worst Character endings probably since tekken 1
5) Lack of game modes
6) Mediocre stage music - and unfinished stages - infinite azure the clouds dont even move - snow stage no footprints - TAG 1 snow stage on PS2 had FOOTPRINTS
7) BROKEN characters -Akuma Geese No explanation needed - DLC pay to win characters - Kuni, leroy
8) T7 is the most consistently INCONSISTENT tekken game hitboxes and sidesteps to date
T7 was the better E sport but it was NOT a better tekken game over T6 TAG2 and no not even T8 with all of its problems
I always felt like Tekken 8 was the response of Tekken 7, just two polar opposites of their core philosophies. That's why Tekken 8 is more Polarizing rather than universally hated.
I believe they came right out and said so. It's no secret that people felt T7 was played overly defensively, and was a lot of the time boring to watch. That's why T8 has so much flash using the heat system and heavily rewards offense/engagement.
@@Shade84I think Tekken fans keep forgetting that every Tekken since 3 has different philosophy, T4 was environment stuff, T5 made most hard stuff easier and neutral the core point, T6 was experimental with characters and combos, T7 was full defensive and T8 is full aggression. I wonder what will they do with Tekken 9, maybe they'll try to find the perfect balance 🤔
The issue with T7 is that the backdashing strategy combined badly with the OP CH game. In theory, the other player could approach as the opponent backdashes, but in T7 this often means risking running into a CH launcher. Still, it is far, far more dynamic, and decision rich, small tekken laden than this mess that is T8: everyone is a 50-50 rushdown mixup monster, with the capacity to exert chains of pressure with plus frames where the opponent is reduced to defending or guessing, taking forever to switch turns. Heat just makes everything worse, combos longer, and gameplay dumber. I like toning down Ch launchers and buffing SS, but backdash was also nerfed and characters have insane range-covering options that give them plus frames that make movement even more restrictive than in T7.
Not to mention characters being dumbed down almost universally.
T8's been out for less than a year and people have already forgotten sentiments on T7 near the end of its life cycle: it relied too much on keep out, was boring to watch, and it was time for a change. Complaints about T8's mechanics and predatory monetization are valid, but let's not bullshit ourselves saying 7 was way better.
Reminds me of MK fans wanting to go back to MK11, even though they called it trash right up until MK1 released. Hell, reminds me of call of duty and pokemon players too. Some people just like to bitch and gas up the past, which gets in the way of discussions on how to actually improve the game for the future.
I get the impression everyone's making a final push to have Tekken 8 adjusted for season 2, though I assume the devs already have a plan.
I will agree, though, I've been tired of hearing the constant comparison between T7 and T8. The games were made intentionally different.
I agree and the only people that hate T8 are professionals and some streamers lol… everyone else loves it . I love it . I like it more everyday , even the customizations are cool and it’s more interesting to watch too.. the healing factors and heat make it so unpredictable of whose going to win but the game obviously takes skill still.. Arslyn ash won EVO again this year .
People just have to let go of Tekken 7 or just go back and play it . But Tekken 7 will never be better than Tekken 8 in my opinion lol
I agree.
the only reason Tekken 7 became good is because of the guest characters, if without Akuma, Geese or Noctis, the game will end up the same fate with TTT2. Ono helped Harada on this one that;s why Namco survived in T7
Tekken fans are toxic. Ive played since 5 and ive had the most fun with 8. I wasnt a fan of the tekken 7 back dash jab, back dash low kick, poke poke poke play style. It still had broken characters after a decade of release and patches akuma, marduk, geece etc. People forgot death combos were a thing in tekken 7? Tekken 8 is far more engaging and encourages you to counter hit and get your grey health back. Just far more engaging than the typcial poke poke poke poke poke style until someone messes up.
Tekken 7 wasn't perfect, but I can sure tell you that I was much happier playing it than I am playing 8.
And that's valid. But as 2D game player, I don't understand why Tekken players... don't just play the game they prefer. We don't have to play the new shiny version of a game.
@@valeoncat13Right?! I love this comment. I prefer T7 AND T5 over T8. I haven't bought T8 and don't plan to.
It's crazy to look at the mexican KoF community not letting go of '98 vanilla and the brazilian community not letting go of 2002 vanilla as well. Also, that Third Strike tournament was the most hype shit from EVO this year.
@@valeoncat13load times, graphics, no cross-play. it's hard to go back.
@@Lethalassassin27 load times and no cross-play are real bummers outside of gameplay preference. Graphics can be easily ignored, and netcode is not as dogshit as some people say it is.
I can't and your a disingenuous idiot if you think that tekken 7 is in any way better than 8 when it's so piss easy to mash into combos that eat up 85% of health and all it takes is another mash to win. Tekken 7 literally plays like a beta to this day the balance is absolute garbage and they made guest dlc characters broken for clout which isnt something tekken 8 does and if that's your idea of fun then youre what's wrong with the tekken community
Excellent video - i have said for YEARS.
“Tekken 7 is the most consistently inconsistent tekken game to date” For the reasons you mentioned above
T6 Tag 2 > Better tekken games imo
T7 was just the better "E Sport"
Tekken 7 definitely had its problems but I just enjoyed the pace of the gameplay more in general, idk why everybody on Twitter feels like they need to dunk on everyone else’s opinion and prove it’s the wrong opinion or something lol.
I probably would’ve liked DR the most if I knew about the competitive aspect of the game when I was like 14.
Thank you. That's the problem we T7 lovers have with T8. Never said T7 was perfect. But I want to die knowing what happened and how to improve it round 2.
T8 plays too fast to download your opp. Most matches end in 12 or less seconds.
T8 pros also die to the same setups low levels do even after labbing because of speed and you are usually (-) on block because of some stance transition that also masks 2 unblockable highs (U-Grab or G-Break) a launching Mid and a knockdown low to followup for 45-60 damage for blocking, all happening in 2 seconds?
If T7 was 1x speed T8 is 4-5x speed that's the problem for me imo.
@@Perry_Talion My question is, if you like Tekken 7 that much and don't like 8, why don't you play that instead? The game is still available. Before getting an interest in Tekken, I was playing Blazblue, and that's what the Blazblue community did. Most stayed with the old game instead of moving on to the crazy tag version of the game with insane sandwich 4 way mixups with shit flying across the screen every quarter of a second.
So instead of talking negative about Tekken 8 and raining on other peoples' parade, why not just boot up Tekken 7 and play that? Wouldn't you have more fun? Isn't it exhausting to complain like this?
@jeanschyso I already do that but I've already paid for T8 using the last of what I saved up for my "Guilt free high spend" budget for one game for the year. Other people also have their own reasons besides my own and your own too. Not all of us have the same motivations.
I still play Tekken 8 because I love certain things while I hate other things. Also have to polish my skills and habits for when the game finally reaches an acceptable balance. T7 and T8 feel way different that a week away can actually cause sizable disadvantages.
Works for everything else in life. I love my wife but we have problems I complain about. Doesn't mean I don't love her and should get another wife. Perhaps the problems are not that big but they are there.
People who complain hoping for change love the game but the problems are glaring and hard to ignore. It's an abusive relationship but a relationship nonetheless.
Note how I never said T8 is bad. Only I stated where I find critical areas. I love the game but one should never be so loyal that they can never find criticism in the subject. T8 lets me down because I could be enjoying this game so much but I cannot and already invested in it.
@Perry_Talion it's a matter of taste for a lot of people so people will always disagree. But at least your comment is cival and not like every reactionary doomer online. People are too charged and love to bandwagon or complain at some arbitrary 'oversimplification/appealing to casuals'. It's just that civil discussion in fgc when comparing games is practically unheard of.
I enjoyed T7 but had way more problems overall imo, people tried to play it like Street Fighter with all the backdashes and pokes. It was also just 'counterhit launcher the game' imo, you fish for the ch. Also the meta characters were way more aggregious compared to T8.
That being said the aggressiveness in T8 is more to my tastes but I think everyone agrees the balancing at launch was a mess. Again everyone seems to glaze over that the game also hasn't been out 1 year nor had any arcade iterations to balance things.
The monetization stuff is another topic but I think it's a bit overblown. I'd rather it not be there but it's pretty easy to just ignore it and just play the game. Most times it's a publisher decision and the Devs unfortunately don't have much say. The battle pass is pretty much free at this point and people act like there's a gun to there head when talking about mtx in any game.
Tekken vet here played since tekken 3. Tekken 7 is my favorite tekken, I pushed to emperor in that game. Pushed to tekken god in 8. I quit tekken 8 completely out of frustration for the systems. Not everybody hated or was tired of the defensive playstyle of 7. I really enjoyed it. You can sit there and say “well just adjust” yeah ive tried. Plenty of times and id say i have adjusted, but i simply just do not enjoy the aggression in tekken 8. I agree that some people are saying “real tekken” which think is wrong because tekken 8 is still the 8th tekken game lol. But yeah I just straight up dont enjoy the aggression at all so i will not be playing tekken 8.
honestly man every valid criticism of tekken 8's gameplay loop is met with another unrelated argument. rn its that tekken 7 was garbage the whole time i guess?? like it changes anything abt how tekken 8 plays
The thing I really liked about Tekken 7, that is entirely missing from my experience of Tekken 8, is that it felt like we were "In Neutral" very often. The game was relatively focused on small Tekken. There were a lot of moments where it felt like nobody was "In Control" - and it felt like I was always ALLOWED TO DO STUFF. If I got launched, you combo me, and at the end (unless you gave up combo damage for jump-over oki or something) we went back into neutral. My top 3 moves on every character were Jab, df1, generic d4. Small tools that were generically good, but had small reward.
In Tekken 8, when I get hit by your plus on block mid with good tracking, I'm -17 and I have to hold literally any mix you want to apply. You can do a plus on block mid, do a WR move, do a hellsweep, grab. I can't sidestep or block, I can't armor or Rage art, Yoshi can't even flash. Those all die if I press any button, you're just too plus. My only option is stand block or crouch block. I am not allowed to DO STUFF. That's the most extreme example, but even at +5 oB its so oppressive. There's less small tekken, its entirely focused around BIG moves. Armor heat engagers and plus on block mids that do chip. df1's and generic d4's are depreciated, now you only use lows that are like +4 on hit.
The problem with the AGGRESSION model is that only one player gets to be AGGRESSIVE at a time. If you're the one being AGGRESSIVE, I have to hold whatever mix you decide. If I guess wrong, you get to continue being AGGRESSIVE. If you launch me, at the end of your combo, you get to continue being AGGRESSIVE when I stand up. But then, as soon as I block your move and I get a 10 frame punish, suddenly your turn is over and I am now fully AGGRESSIVE. I never feel like I am "In Neutral" in T8 after the first engagement, because that would require somebody to take their foot of the gas pedal when they are in the drivers seat.
What i don't like is how tekken 8 does away with any other playstyle that isn't rushdown aggression. Thats incredibly reductive. Player expression be damned. Being punished for being defensive is not what many want tekken to be.
I think if they buffed backdashes again and nerfed the tracking and phantom range on skip neutral tools like demon paws, it would be a huge step in the right direction because there would be more neutral mindgames and movement
Balancing is not the issue. It’s the system itself that needs changing. Like the aggression. No amount of needing will fix this game unless they tackle the root problem
Agree with you. Especially on the phantom hitbox and neutral/safe tools like demon paw.
@@UserDoesNotExist570 I completely agree. Chip damage is one of the most egregious reasons to the system. Imagine being penalized for defense. Why bother blocking because my chainsaws on block do even more damage than jabs on hit.
The phantom range of demon paws, yes, i agree with that. I dont agree with backdashes buff.. its already tiring to play against ppl running away all the time just to force a whif or to spam keep out tools, i think that is the most toxic gameplay. Its not like u cant backdash situations in this game. Buffing backdash reduces the interaction because it would be much more rewarding to backdash anything than to actually commit to an atack or another defensive option (like sidesteps, powercrush or evasive moves) and i think it would turn the game into another tekken 7 where ppl only plays like Phidx show in this video.
Especially Claudio his demon paw reaches further than devil jins heat smash and is fast asf he's character that doesn't get talked about enough as far as needing balancing imo.
Movement based Tekken>>>Rush down based Tekken. Way more skill way less mashees
Tekken 7 = back dash- jab, back dash- low kick, back dash- jab, back dash- low kick
Boring af. Its why only sweat lords liked it. Tekken 7 had weaker aide stepping than tekken 8 but back dashing was stronger in 7. He literally just showed you a clip here of tournament people just doing that 😂. It was an overly defensive game and not fun to watch as its just poke, poke poke, poke.
@@taseenmannan1202He's talking about TTT2 not T7. It's a fact that T7 nerfed all movement options. People were engaging more in TTT2 bc movement was better and they were confident they could evade and get out of the way at any time. In contrast, T7's backdash and SS were nerfed and once you were locked into a close range combat, you couldn't get out, so pros did everything to avoid that situation, mostly by jabbing and df1 and quickly falling back.
Funny thing is they nerfed movement in T7 to encourage interaction but it got the opposite effect. They buffed SS in T8 bc they finally learned movement aka evasion is needed for more interaction
The disclaimer at the start rings so hollow when this dropped so close to the Arslan tweet where he's saying the game needs systemic changes.
This is the first Tekken game I’ve tried and I love it and am obsessed with it, game is fun to me I love learning all the little intricacies.
CH fishing 7 the game
If people don't think tekken 8 is real Tekken... They also must think that tekken 7 is not real tekken... tekken 5 is the purest Tekken of them all
Loved Tekken 5 side step was 🔥
@@Datdaniel90 Amazing stages, sound effects and music, instant loading time, small combos, a ton of character intros and winposes. How i wish for a modern T5DR with new characters such as Lidia, Azu and Leroy.
This is true. Still Tag 2 is my favorite of them all.
Yeah I think 8 is closer to T5 but to say T7 is real and 8 is fake is a wild statement when 7 discouraged sidesteps and anything unique for movement.(hyperbole)
T5DR is pure and better (Steve doesn't have multiple viable ToDs)
Holy shit what a banger of a video. Appreciate all the effort you put into this history lesson and analysis
My fave PhiDX video so far
Rent must be crazy
Something I rarely ever see people talk about is how T7 made it so that you can fully block during a backdash. Past Tekkens did not have this and I think this is also another part of the reason why defensive play was so strong in T7. This made it so that players who had a weak backdash would have an above average backdash. Most lows don't have the range to keep up with an above average backdash so the defending player could literally backdash all day taking all the weak, quick lows and just land their range 3+ launchers/CH launchers
This is literally Kuni's gameplan BTW. And we all know how much we love Kuni
the tekken 6 walkthrough is actually nuts man. YOU ARE A MACHINE>>>>>> Tekken community is lucky to have a phidx
I think the biggest thing I took away from this video is that tekken 8 and older tekkens want you to make defensive decisions more frequently. In tekken 7 you were rewarded for choosing to disengage and not make a decision lest you get deleted by your opponent reading you. But in tekken 8 since backdashes are nerfed and ch’s are less crazy you are forced to constantly make offensive and defensive decisions. Defense is still rewarded, you are simply rewarded for making correct decisions as opposed to being rewarded for avoiding the risk of making a bad decision.
if it were true for t8, there wouldn't be so many moves with so much tracking that also skip neutral ( demon paws ) there wouldn't be random bs like expulsion ( which is a lot more evasive than other round stealing moves ), guns, 5 feet swords, every character wouldn't have a stance, I can go on. The problem with t8 is too many things have changed at the same time and it makes the game scrubby, look at ranks now, slowly and surely ranks mean less and less the skill you have and more the amount of bs your character can put out. Just watch sajam slam competitors they reached so high in ranks but when you see them play, it is mostly flowcharting your strongest moves.
@@garvitdhamija9033 expulsion is trash though outside of heat, victor has far far bigger bullshit than that
The never ending cycle, the game i olayed for years is better than the one ive plased for just months
any game im currently playing is bad. until i stop playing it, then its good
As someone who only played 7 and 8 at a super casual level, Tekken 7 is better imo.
Had way more fun playing 7 than 8 and the new approach to make the game hyper aggressive to lure in new players might work short term, but I don't see it is going to work on the long run.
I honestly wish they would fix the strings so we were back at DR. Right now sidestepping a string just to get clipped by the last hit while trying to wiffpunish is so frustrating and it makes sidestepping feel very risky.
We also have characters (toptiers) that have safe mid, mid strings that are in the range of -3 on block (looking at you drag) where the second hit also behaves like a homing move.
Honestly if they make sidestepping strings viable i think the game will feel better and we as players feel like the right read gets rewarded instead of "well shit, that move just went 180 on me".
I honestly think tekken 8 is hella more fun than 7 but it just needs some tweeks to become fantastic and less frustrating to play.
Really well put together video that pinpoints exactly what was missing in T7 and how Namco have overcompensated in T8.
The direction they moved in by removing Dragunov b4,3 tracking gives me hope that Namco does understand this and will hopefully bring the changes in season 2.
I believe removing tracking from some of the re aligning strings and slightly buffing the backdash would put the gameplay in a healthy and exciting spot, now just have to hope this comes true ❤
Great video, love how you break down every clip and show the level of complexity within them all.
Just played T7 for the first time in years for like half an hour, got off and saw this upload lmao
I understand now thanks to your video. When I watched that clip on mute, the amount of poke into back dashing to full screen was very noticeable but I didn't realise how little interaction was happening.
The real Tekken was the friends we made along the way
Also, T7 Legendary Knee v JDCR match was S1 of Tekken 7.1, after they've had YEARS to cook in arcade. And arcade was disgustingly imbalanced then. People compare
You mained Noctis tho 😭😭😭
Tekken players are a bunch of whiners.
Many of them not even slightly above the average but they act like understanding everything just because they watched tmm analysis videos. This is the one and only truth.
The introduction to this video only proves that it's still trying to sugarcoat Tekken 8 LOL. It's not only about the movement it's about the whole system. If a game almost got 9 patches in a short period of time after it's release, then there's really something wrong with the game period.
.... This is the first Tekken game that had no arcade phase. Tekken got an insane amount of patches before reaching console in almost every iteration in the last 15 years.
@@UndefeatableKing it took a lot of patches but not this much for a short period of time and they still can't fix the issue in rank matches. Its not only about the game mechanics its about the whole game itself.
@@mogucentral3820 it was literally 2 years of arcade for every game. That's not a few patches, but believe what you want. Aside from a few things, the game is fine to me, not sure what rank issues you're talking about
@@UndefeatableKing if you're ok with it, then good on you. but majority of the players are not happy with it. You can check the steam count per day. from 49k players on its launch to 5k per day now. unlike in SF6, they still average around 25k-30k players on steam and its only on steam. How much more in PS4 and PS5 players.
@@mogucentral3820 I don't gain validation on the quality of a game from steam counts. The game is unquestionably better now than it was on release. Street Fighter has always had more popularity than Tekken.
To be honest the first time i noticed sidestep was so much worse in t7, i was already bummed and having to play with a combo system less complex than bound (i loved the "is gonna hit the wall first or should i bound early than hit the wall? can i use floor and wall break to gain even more damage?" aspect of t6) made me instantly dislike t7 from the get go. Having rage arts didn't help.
Because of it i wasn't hyped for t8, than i played beta, did sidestep predicting a jab from my friend next to me (we both were on training mode), and not only it worked against his straight mid, it lead into a launch, combo and than my friend goes "oh the heat shit is bound on combo" and i simply fell in love.
Yeah t8 is ultra levels of agressive and constantly playing close, but having a better corckscrew alongside bound, heat dash being a more fun version of rage drive for me, and having crazy sidesteps like t6 (previously my fav tekken), just makes the game feel awesome to me. Yeah i'm down for a refinement of these systems and the agression getting toned down some way, but you'll never convince me t8 is worse or less tekken than 7, it's not.
I don’t play competitively but love seeing the innovation of the fighting game genre since first playing SFT, MK, and Doujin fighters as a kid.
These games are for everyone, not just a competitive scene, and people need to remember that.
This. Ppl forget to have fun at first place. Everyone wanna act like a pro competitors.
Damn PhiDX you are so real for this. Dudes gonna be hating on this take so much, suddenly everyone doing revisionist history about how Tekken 7 was the 'GREATEST EVER' shit and like.... man.... naaaahh it really ain't.
Loving the deep dives on T7.
Just want to say man, youve been doing gods work for both old heads and new comers alike. Tekken 7 was my first Tekken that i decided to take serious and by that i mean learn what frames were, play ranked, lab, practice and play almost literally daily. Before that, the last tekken i had was tekken 6 back in 2007 when i was like 12 or 13 just pressing buttons with friends. I truly loved Tekken 7 but i could see its clear glaring faults, i also really enjoy tekken 8 now but i keep finding myself getting burnt out. I really appreciate this in depth look at the old tekkens, it really helps give perspective on the current systems and also helps alleviate the stress of tekken 8 that ive been feeling.
31:20 I'll literally cry tears of joy if they buff sidestepping/movement or nerf string tracking in T8.
I think the string tracking change would be interesting, but I also feel like some of the strings should track. It would make sense in some cases that the character would turn a little bit seeing his opponent stepped to the side in some cases. It would feel weird if no tracking happened at all.
I'm sure there is a balance to be found.
I'm laughing at some of these unhinged hater comments attacking Phi (on Twitter and even in his yt comments) because objectively wouldn't he love T7 more since that's when his career as a pro popped off? If he were just glazing T8 blindly and it'd be super favorable for him, wouldn't he just be going to tournaments left, right and centre instead of making comprehensible and helpful guides to help beginners (which he has done for T7 as well btw) and bring more players onto the scene? Hell, even him bringing up that clip of him winning against Knee but then talking about how that was a big problem even though he WON shows that he's not just mindlessly favoring one or the other for the sake of his benefit.
You that invested in this dumbass argument that you right a damn story
see the point that you bring up that phi is putting aside his bias is true but is it true for speedkicks ? he was only ever relevant in T6 and TT2, I can clearly see where his bias towards those games comes from. if he can openly hate t7 for yrs, why can't arslan hate t8? these full-screen shenanigans are very cherry picked examples where first clip is from season 1 ( people didn't adjust to the system yet ) and last is phi's clip whose style is hitting and running away to invoke noctis' superior moves in range. I commend phi but i don't think this was an objective breakdown more like selling whatever you believe.
@@garvitdhamija9033 People will always be biased and can't be "purely" objective to be fair. We're all shaped by our circumstances and experiences. At some point you have to realise maybe some things are more "BIASED" in a purely negative sense only when someone just doesn't have the same exact opinions as you or something. Idk, man. My point is, they're giving insight from their povs as honestly as they can. Like what do you want these guys to do at some point? They're not just being like "RAAAA X TEKKEN IS THE BEST TEKKEN ONLY RAAAAA" as some people are seemingly making them out to be. I feel like some people don't want nuance and just want their way or the high way.
A literal move-by-move analysis of a round to compare games is kinda crazy
PhiDX been doing so many tricks on Tekken 8 I can hear the Tony hawk sound effect
best comment
It’s important to understand the pros, cons and design philosophy for each entry. 7 was and is not balanced. However, it was THE game for people who loved defensive style.
And Tekken has commonly been a series that develops from each iteration (even 4 despite removing some legacy things).
But 8 (just like 4) didn’t just progress it, they blasted away in a new direction.
We as the players need to understand what kind of game the tekken team is trying to make (pretty clear what it is), and give constructive criticism to help make it a better Tekken 8. Not a tekken 7, not a 5, but the best version a Tekken 8 game can be.
This does mean it’s going to be a very oppressive game for its life, but we can help guide it where it doesn’t feel overly oppressive as it does currently (damn, vanilla version was wild).
I’m a fan of what they’re trying to do. And clearly some things are too much, or too little and that balance needs to be progressively reached.
(Also makes me wonder what other direction they’ll take in the future. Tekken 12, VR only, imagine)
Nah, the whole gameplay philosophy underpinning T8 is hot garbage in my opinion. I want no part of it. As for 'constructive criticism', that to me means pushing the developers for a port of older games for contemporary hardware, replete with decent netplay, so that those of us who'd far rather play those games have a viable means of playing them online that doesn't involve faffing about with emulation.
I agree with that that criticism helps make Tekken 8 better, and I feel like people need to stop defining what "real Tekken" is whatever may it be from what approach and styles the previous games promoted with their systems (better defensive play in T7, better movement in T8, etc). In my opinion, people who look up to pros (even though there isn't any harm in looking up to pros) need to stop parroting what the pros think until they've got to hear multiple people's (from pros to non-pros) opinion on the current state of the game.
Tekken 8 can be steered with fair and constructive criticism from the fans and players, and from what we've seen recently with the Genmaji DLC stage fiasco, it seems the devs and the publishers are willing to hear us out. It's just a matter of time until the next major balancing patch and the next DLC character gets released, and hopefully over time that "balance" will be reached in some point.
I agree this game is new and still needs some patching, but this game is great and, with good support, can be the best in the series
Gotta disagree, Tekken 7 wasn't designed for defensively players in fact it was the opposite. Tag 2 was THE game for defensive players but people hated the rage system. Tekken 7 nerfed your defensive options and made it so most of the cast could blow you up with CH launchers the whole match so people HAD to be defensive with worse defensive tools. It felt horrible for characters with lesser counter hit options and or worse movement
"Tekken 7 wasn't as great as you think" but I think it was dogshit? No offense, Phi 😅
The only people I see missing 7 are, frankly, random-ass players. As in, they gambled a lot in a game where it was impossible to mitigate their volatility with consistent defensive options. And I'm not talking out my ass here, these are guys on my friends list, some are even AT MY LOCAL. And you know how they play? Hopkick & parry/power crush addicts who are big big mad whenever I sidestep their shit. Who look lost when I don't freeze up because they poked me once. Basically, 7 was a game where you HAD to respect worse players because of the volatility, 8 is far more consistent. Anyone who talks about how they miss 7 is telling on themselves.
you are a bullshitter if i’ve ever seen one bruh
Thank you for saying everything I wanted to say about t7
Finally somebody with some sense
Get Rekt Tekken 7 > t8
I think the biggest gripe I have with t8 is actually how much the camera and gameplay zooms in and slows down. Like I think it destroys the flow of these sequences in a really bad way and it's a very ham fisted attempt to give new players extra time to think that I don't think works too well. It's cool for like, an hour, and then it starts to grate on you.
I'd like to see string tracking removed too, since that just makes sense in my brain, but tbh the heat/rage art time stop is far bigger an issue to me.
Tekken 8 is my first Tekken game, and I really, really like the game. But even my biased ass can tell some changes should probably be made. Especially when it comes to heat.
I say heat engagers should have two modes: either you could use them like normal moves or have the choice to try and engage heat with them, the latter leaving you more negative/punishable. If you're potentially gaining +17 and a full heat bar, you should be taking a genuine risk. But I also wouldn't want these moves to be gutted entirely just for the sake of nerfing heat. Two versions of the moves would allow for the best of both worlds.
Another thing I'd like is for heat dashes on block to give specific frame advantage/disadvantage depending on the move used. I don't understand why such a subjectively strong tool is completely homogenised across the entire cast. Heat dashing with Steve's WR2 makes it worse on block, while Kazuya's db1,2 goes from -19 to a pressuring tool. I genuinely don't understand why it's like this.
Apart from that, everything else is stuff I'm probably unqualified to comment on. However, I will say that my brain likes it when I'm doing KBDs, so if they buffed them, I'd be pretty happy about it.
T7 was definitely great for the franchise, almost didn’t happen and is the very reason T8 is even a game.
What you said in a previous video about the “mindless defence” of Tekken 7 really opened my eyes to the meta of that game and why the devs moved towards the style of Tekken 8
Props to speedkicks for really taking the time to educate/responds to people and props to the people asking for being nice and genuinelly opened to learn, god knows it's rare on twitter especially nowadays
Street fighter player here. Never really got into Tekken even though I did buy 7 to try it out. Now I play Tekken 8 more than I play Street Fighter.
yes i can see his point but to be honest i love the fast action of T8
Same here .. same here brother
Before watching the video, im curious how t7 was not great when this game was literally the reason why we have t8. If t7 was so bad then it would'nt have the most sales out of all tekken
It would be a failure if it wasn't the most sold tekken. It was on the most consoles and also was the only tekken for 8 years. Wtf do you mean that means it was great? It was the only tekken we had to play on modern consoles and pc
@@LadyMourne you do realize that being available on multiple consoles doesn't mean people are going to buy it right? There needs to be an interest in the game for it to sell as well as it did and it was only able to last 8 years because people liked the game
@stankynut3832 if people are faced with a single choice when they want to get into tekken, then is it really a choice at all?
8 years to surpass 10 million units sold versus tekken 3's 2 years to sell 8.5 million units. Not impressed
Imagine still being so naive to think that just because something is successful, its good... the most popular games, movies, songs, books, whatever are ALWAYS the mediocre ones. The majority of people wants easy, simple stuff where they dont have to think too much. Really well-made things are too often way to detailled to be recognized as such by the majority of people. Its exhausting for them to see the different nuances something has to offer.
Thats why generic Pop music is the most succesful one, thats why McDonalds is super successful, thats why Transformers and Fast and the Forious are some of the most successful movie franchises, thats why EA and Ubisoft are successful video game companies, despite its obvoius that ALL OF THIS STUFF is utter trash to the core.
That people in 2024 still argue with sales numbers to measure quality is just tiresome and sad
@@LadyMourne first of all Tekken isn't competing with itself dude. They aren't going to release two of the same game if the previous one is still performing well. They are competing with other fighting games so if you wanna compare the choice compare it to choosing mk or street fighter over Tekken. Second of all t7 predecessor Tekken tag 2 sold under 2 million copies so it is impressive that T7 sold the most at the time considering the bad reputation the previous game got.
I feel like "real" Tekken is whichever Tekken people are engaging with at that point in time. Since we have hindsight (and we still don't know what Tekken 8 will inevitably end up in it's end cycle), just the drastic changes between T7's beginning and ending showcased that even within that, people's playstyles had to change but it was gradual and people were already invested along for the ride (and people got used to that for YEARS before T8). By "X Tekken isn't REAL Tekken" logic, one can argue first era T7 wasn't "real" Tekken compared to late T7 Tekken and vice versa. I think having them be the complete opposite to 8 (which has the most biggest system changes since 4's if I'm not mistaken) is a jarring but ultimately good thing in the long run as they're able to (hopefully) chip it down to a point where we could get something more like T6/TT2. Ultimately a lot of this also does come down to favorable playstyles and whether someone really likes one or the other (and if you're a pro you'd have to adapt either way) and that does play an integral role into enjoying anything.
Anyway, I know this won't really affect me that much with my level of play so ultimately it doesn't really matter to me (being a low level player comes with more priorities to even begin comprehending stuff shown in this video 😂) but that's just my two cents on it. Most people like me only really care if they have a character they really like to play (I have a friend who's first fg/Tekken was T8 but went to T7 solely because she found Miguel and fell in love lmao). Apologies if this is hella incoherent 😅Great breakdown!
As a Lars main in tekken 7 and a victor main in tekken 8, I out of everybody have the right to give my humble opinion. To be completely honest for a moment, I don’t have anything to add to this.
I really appreciate this kind of deeper analysis trying to understand the pros, cons and reasons instead of the usual yapping most people resort to online when there is something they don't like
That T7 JDCR-Knee fight was called "The Best Tekken Set in History" at some point on youtube, i think it's Rev Major 2017
So the OP Speedkicks cited that said "This is real Tekken" is a big of a stretch, that was pretty much lightning in a bottle gameplay
I am just glad I don't need to "GET READY FOR THE NEXT BATTLE" again
T7 was never perfect, but it sure wasn't as streamlined and homogenized as T8. Unless they regulate their obsession over constant 50/50s and pay more attention to balance out defense/offense and overall general balance of the characters, this whole dissatisfaction with the game won't change anytime soon.
>wasn't homogenized
Lmao every character in this game was ch launch magic 4, strong backdash with strong wall carry.
sidestepping is the best thing ever created, when it works. realigning is the worst, everytime it happens, it feels like one got dopamine robbed.
Tekken 5 was Peak,,, people arguing between what real tekken is 7 or 8 are so funny... REAL Tekken is TEKKEN 5 and 5 DR, the second closest thing to real tekken is tekken 6
Tekken 1 is real Tekken
As someone who started playing tekken 8 seriously for the first time with drills and an hour a day of specific practice etc. I quite enjoy t8 still just because it’s loud, exciting and I know I’m fighting a huge uphill battle in ranked vs people who have years of experience vs me. At 197k tekken power I face all sorts of opponents which require me to rethink each encounter a new and that alone that challenge each time I accept a new round in itself is fun to me. No matter if I win or not - especially when I can afterwards recognize where my fault was. I hope once season 1 ends the new balance patch will improve the game even further and we can all enjoy it more. After all a bigger community to play with and to come up with setups and strats is what thrives this game and scene. So once in December the TWT final happens I hope that the patch comes soon. Until then I just play as best as I can. Enjoy more lobbies and local offline 1v1 sessions and learn with and everyone together.
Noone thinks Tekken 7 was great. Tekken 7 sucked hard, Tekken 8 sucks just a little more. Last good Tekken game was Tekken 5 DR, from Tekken 6 and on it is going downhill and in a wrong direction.
As someone who started with Tekken 8, its interesting how interactive the game is at close range, while also a surreal experience of waiting for someone to backdash to throw out a fireball. Great video! It put everything in very easy to understand terms, and I got to learn about possibly my new favorite fighting game.
Thanks for the vid. Been enjoying T8 myself
Honestly amazed at how quickly you put together such a stellar presentation!
Incredible video Phi, you really help my smooth brain grasp this stuff so much better.
I genuinely like how the neutral works in this game. The neutral triangle is balanced again as opposed to tekken 7 where statistically you would win by abusing keep outs and crazy backdashes. And when I first tested tekken 8 during the beta I popped off really hard when I sidestepped Jin's electric for the first time and when I played . However, this game doesn't feel fun when you get launched and your back is against the wall while your opponent has heat activated and you just have to hold it while your lifebar is getting chipped away. These issues are very clear but we are still in the first year of Tekken 8, and I know tekken games tend to change drastically from the arcade version to the console version. ( or in this case the debut of tekken 8 ) This is why I won't give up and I actually wanna go pro in this game.
Also it's kind of funny to see the contrast between the online community ( reddit, youtube, tweeter, etc ... ) and my local community. I live in Madagascar where the cost of the game and internet is way too much so people only play in like playrooms offline, and since the consoles we are playing on aren't ours, we don't care about the battlepasses and Tekken shop thing. We are just here for the gameplay.
And our community is as big as ever right now with a 96+ local tournament every month and we even got a challenger event. There will be a tournament on Saturday and Harada and Nakatsu will actually attend that tournament to see my local community.
I find it really weird how tekken is very controversial everywhere else while in our country it's the best it has ever been.
Qudans vs nenethedragon on urban balcony break T7
They dont hit buttins for 12 seconds
Collision 2019
I was trying to get my friends to come back to TTT2 from 7 lol. Didn’t work out. I still have hope for a 3. It’s my favorite version of Tekken til this day.
I played T7 dropped it and I never dropped T8 because this is the game that made me love the franchise I think we know what's the better game
Video gives me a BIT more hope for tekken 8, i dont think its a bad game, but i do think its not fun, and probably wont ever change
But seeing this breakdown does give me hope MAYBE with a few big patches it could harken back to what made tekken sick, will it ever be perfect, probably not (i prefer T5 style combos, i doubt they'll cut combo length or come back mechanics, so stuck with having to sit through 10 second combo ads inbetween my moments of actually playing the game :/) but it might be something actually fun to playing some day
While I fully agree that the threat of a low parry and extremely high damaging ch launchers existed, I feel like the poking style of play combined with movement still existed in the game. In fact, even though we know Arslan's defense to be godlike, he was a poking monster and he wouldn't really be afraid to be in range 2-0 against the opponent. Knee's evo run of 2022 was also so similar. His finals against khan's geese, a walking nuke, was him being close jabbing, side step left ducking, sidestep left jabbing, using kenpo effectively, etc. He wasn't outside of the red zone for long periods of time. Also, while it does suck for the opponent, hitting someone with a CH launcher does feel good and as the audience feels epic. I still really enjoy t8, I think both games have a lot to offer and have their flaws. The later stages of tekken 7 with power creep and a slow transition to 50-50s sucked. On the other hand having to deal with even more 50-50 interactions in t8 and turn stealing mechanics also doesn't feel the best and personally, having to use heat burst/power crushes feels really scrubby to me honestly, but beyond that, the game still has a lot of depth to it unlike what some people are claiming. I really enjoy tekken 8 and the satisfaction of making defensive reads with sidesteps, option selects and even backdashing in some scenarios still exists.
Thanks for the perspective and knowledge, as always. I love T8 and gonna keep playing it
37:28 his reaction “oh yeah” when getting excited sidestepping and attacking, confirming what Phidx is trying to say 😂
Incredibly insightful video.
For me, I am perfectly happy w' Tekken 8's style of play. I have noticed that my gameplay is a LOT better than my Tekken 7 gameplay and I spent nearly 650h in 7 with a max. rank of Vanquisher. In 8 at 281h, I have two characters at Garyu, both Mishimas, with massively high win rates so I can likely push for Ruler ranks. I put this down to 2 things:
1.) I have grown as a player and gotten better.
2.) Tekken 8's style of play, both offensively and defensively, suits me a lot more.
I find myself stepping more in 8 and being rewarded handsomely for it. The over-reliance on an insane kbd in 7 held me back and I was not a fan of it. At all. I never felt like I was interacting with the opposite player, whereas in 8 I feel like it is such an interactive game with the different options we have available to us.
Thanks for the always-awesome content my dude.
EDIT: Just to add something - you are a good player, dang it! Your level of knowledge and gameplay is epic and your ability to portray that across the entirety of Tekken's skill base is rare. Don't be so hard on yourself!
I loved T7 and played it more than any other Tekken. Tekken 8 isn't for me personally. I might give it another chance if they add my main but I doubt it will happen
Who is your main?
@@wtvevethe million dollar question 😂
Lucky Chloe. Tell me you don't main Lucky Chloe. 🙈
Lei?
Maybe Akuma player tbh
I also want to add in the old Tekken games(from T1-T6 IIRC) you can also influence people's playstyle, by changing the handicap; the length of the lifebar. Correct me if I'm wrong, in Korea during the T6 era they loved to play on +1 setting at the arcades or around 110-120% handicap on the console version I guess. While in other regions many of us stuck with 100%.
Or when you look at the more recent T3 matches, some people seem to enjoy longer casual matches by increasing the handicap to 140%.
Old Tekken games are really cool. There are also things I really like in T8. So yeah this is not a hate comment towards T8.
Has everyone forgotten the most important part about tekken? No matter how much we agree or disagree on certain things it brought you guys together as a community whether its through discord, the forums, in person, i believe that is the most important part
I guess Shilldx makes more sense now