Everyone Believes this Doctrine: Chosen By God with R.C. Sproul
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- Опубликовано: 22 апр 2015
- Scripture very plainly uses the word “predestined” in reference to the salvation of God’s people. Most denominations and some of the greatest theologians have wrestled with this issue through the centuries and have carefully formulated statements regarding this controversial topic. What do you believe about predestination? In this message, Dr. Sproul introduces us to the doctrine of predestination and explains that “Everyone Believes This Doctrine.”
This is the 1st in a series of messages by Dr. Sproul on God's salvation. See other videos in the series: • Chosen By God - R.C. S...
Own this series on DVD: www.ligonier.org/store/chosen-...
Learn more about Dr. R.C. Sproul: www.ligonier.org/about/rc-sproul/
I was glad to hear R C explain in one of his sermons that he refused the doctrine of predestination as a young Christian in seminary & it took the teachings of his beloved mentor John Gerstner over a 5 year period & reading Jonathan Edwards to finally aquiesce to the doctrine & in his own words "I reluctantly accepted it,but I didn't have to like it". But as time pasted & upon further reflection, meditation, study & no doubt prayer, he began to embrace the doctrine of predestination more willing to the point he is at in this video & beyond. I too found this doctrine hard to accept but I too over time embraced it more willingly with time reflection study & prayer. I find that in embracing this doctrine I have a more profound appreciation for my salvation & my walk with Christ, & it has given me a deeper understanding & eagerness to read & learn more of the scriptures. To prayer more often for the Holy Spirit to help me understand & apply the word of God in my life,so that my life reflects Christ & glorifies him.
nick torea he got it from the teachings of men, not naturally through scriptures. This is what concerns me - someone left alone with the bible wouldn’t build up this whole system that they have produced.
@@truthseeker632 You seek truth? Read Romans 9, HONESTLY. As if it were from the lips of Paul himself. You would disagree with the Apostle of God, Romans 9 is exactly what RC is trying to convey.
The problem is, you've been listening to preachers tell you what you believe. They give you one side of the coin. Are they constantly warning about the Goodness and Severity of God? There is a day when Grace and Mercy are cut off forever. That's people pray in Hell, but nobody ever answers.
J Fresco search on google for ‘John MacArthur church cult forum’ and you will see pages and pages of the damage this teaching has done to the body of Christ. I would also urge you to look outside this man made system and see the truth. Search on you tube for testimonies of people who have escaped reformed theology and watch with an open mind. Ask yourself honestly if this system makes you a more loving and peaceful person.
@@itzFresco Romans 9 talks about the selection of the nation of Israel as a special people. This often wielded Calvinist retort 'go read Romans 9' is a decidedly and painfully weak answer.
@@alfredmomodu8096 How do Christians today apply Romans 9?
Or is it just for our information? Romans 9 reveals a broader picture of God's work of election, showing that God does not choose those whom He elects on some arbitrary basis, but by His Grace.
As the Lord saved me by grace through faith, He used Dr. Sproul in a mighty way from the time I was a baby in Christ until today. At first, I didn't understand a thing he said. He has been blessed with a huge brain! But, he was just challenging enough for me to stay interested in and today, I finally understand and LOVE Dr. Sproul's teachings. So I like to go back to the 80's when he was a professor and listen to these teachings of his, even before I was converted. I am thankful that they recorded all these on video from the "old days." They are so much fun to watch 25 or 30 years later....how long has it been Dr. Sproul??? God bless you!
I didn't understand him either. After hearing him the last few years I cried in Joy when he died! He must be so happy now; but I miss him. Most churches put me to sleep now. If not commanded to go it would be a wast of my time.
Morality in the Bible consists of what God thinks Morality is, like this sick shit: II Kings 6:28-29
"And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him to day, and we will eat my son to morrow. So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him: and she hath hid her son...."
Exodus 21:7-11
7 “And if a man sells his daughter to be a female slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. 8 If she does not please her master, who has betrothed her to himself, then he shall let her be redeemed. He shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has dealt deceitfully with her. 9 And if he has betrothed her to his son, he shall deal with her according to the custom of daughters. 10 If he takes another wife, he shall not diminish her food, her clothing, and her marriage rights. 11 And if he does not do these three for her, then she shall go out free, without paying money.
If it wasn't for Slavery, Blacks wouldn't be Christian.
Exodus 21:2-6,
Leviticus 25:44-46,
Ephesians 6:5,
1 Timothy 6:1-2,
Luke 12:47-48,
Colosians 18:22
1 Peter 2:18
How Christian Slaveholders Used the Bible to Justify Slavery:
time.com/5171819/christianity-slavery-book-excerpt/
I don't go to church because I don't Worship the Devil.
@@SolutionsNotPrayers that’s because you get your facts and motivation from Netflix shows like, Sabrina - right off the bat you base God’s morality off of two verses from II Kings 28. Nice attempt, but you’re completely out of context and obviously didn’t read anything. It would convince me more if your point proved the entire chapters of Scripture wrong, but the only way it works in your favor is if you chop up the chapters in a way that suits your point.
@Solutions not Prayers What is the authority of your morality?
@@tahmah1577 in
I just cannot get enough of this teaching. I've been going over it and many other teachings. Thank God for men like the late Dr R C Sproul, Dr John MacArthur, John Piper and many others who still preach the unadulterated word of God. These are men who do not compromise the word of God, men who esteem the word above what would be deemed as popular culture. Culture and popular belief cannot take precedence over the word of the living God. Thank you heavenly Father for choosing me for salvation, and that that choice was not based on what I did. It is based purely on grace, and grace alone, I had nothing to do with it. Thank you Jesus for the gift, which I didn't, and wouldn't have deserved, no matter what I would have done to earn it.
Great presentation, Dr. Sproul is a titan in his on right. Love his teaching. A Godly man.
I am gaining from this series. Is a blessing. Glory be to God and God alone
About the best presentation I have EVER seen on the subject
One of the greatest teachers of all time imo. I love the approach
Working my way through all his sermon starting afresh 7/30/19
You should check out John Mcarthur also. I don't agree with everything he says, but he opened my eyes to a lot
I too did not believe in predestination in my earlier years but now I am 68 and wholeheartedly believe it to be true.
Romans 9:28 says those He FOREKNEW He predestined.
What don't you understand about FOREKNEW?
God didn't create some people for heaven and some for hell.
Great is our God Jesus Christ
Praise Christ for the excellent biblical teachings of the Doctrine of Predestination by the late Dr. R.C. Sproul. ❤
All glory TO GOD, praise be for CHRIST JESUS THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD, his people rejoice spread his name lift his glory exalt his name, he is KING , LORD , GOD of glory , my GOD!
May Christ open eyes spirit pierce hearts and draw his, to himself rescue these lost sheep LORD, you ordain uphold and govern the world, may I be a useful vessel for my master today and all my life 🙏 amen
Amen Sproul. We are saved by Gods's grace alone. May we bless and praise His holy and great name. God bless you all.
Oylkolvvvp yaY
Upin
한국어 자막달아주셔서 감사합니다 잘 보고 배우고 있습니다
Thank You Jesus!
I love these teachings
I would like to thank Mr R.C. Sprool, he made me introduced to a lot of things about God from Theological perspective and expand my Christian knowledge.
Let God protects you and all my sisters & brothers in Christianity.
If it was actually true that somehow we had decided before we were born if we were going to be for God or against God, then wouldn't that almost be the perfect reason why we are predestined to be what we afore times agreed to be. In other words instead of God arbitrarily deciding who He would elect He instead elects those who have already elected to follow Christ before they came into this earthly existence. If that was indeed true then predestination would, in my opinion, make perfect sense.
paulwilfridhunt Another reason that makes me believe more in predestination is that there are too many philosophies around the world almost for everything we can think of, as well as too many religions. so for me, god should do the first step towards ud not just the first step and preserving our faith, otherwise we can't reach him. we "all humans" are too vulnerable to reach such a being.
Yes Syrian you make a good point. There are many different doctrines but that's not the end of the world is it, as they say. The main thing is to love Christ and be an obedient follower of Him and have a sincere grateful heart towards God. And if you happen to have the right doctrine then so be it, all the better. But many very good Christians who are for God can sometimes be off base somewhat when it comes to doctrine but as their heart's are pure and they obey and love God, they still are greatly loved by God and will inherit everlasting life.
@@paulwilfridhunt you confuse yourself.
God didn't predetermine who would get saved
God didn't create some people just to send them to hell.
@@endtimesareuponus8930 Let’s be real. God knew before he created mankind that he would be drowning them all in the flood except for the 8 on the ark.
He didn’t want to destroy them but because they elected to be wicked they therefore chose their own destruction.
They were warned by the righteous Noah. He gave them a chance didn’t He. Noah had a chance and he took it and got saved. But they didn’t.
But it seems reasonable to conclude that if no one was going to be worth saving in the ark, and everyone was going to need to be destroyed, He probably wouldn’t have bothered to create mankind at all.
And without the saving of the 8 we wouldn’t be here, because we are all descendants from Noah and the 7 on the ark being a total of 8. Therefore also for our sake He saved Noah.
And therefore just because God knew he would be destroying the wicked in the flood doesn’t mean it was His fault.
And likewise as He knows He will be destroying much of mankind in hell, it’s not His fault.
God doesn’t create people just to send them to hell. Actually He does the complete opposite. He creates them for heaven.
But because many will rebel against God they cannot go to heaven and inherit everlasting life.
Predestination is interesting. Its connected to the supreme sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross at Calvary.
God is only predestinating those who have the predisposition to obey Him. And He knows who they are.
But without the assistance of the predestined life, the powers of Satan will overpower them, and prevent their repentance.
Hence the existence of predestination.
It is necessary because without it no one will be saved.
If God should take away our freewill it would no longer be freewill. And as He will not remove our freewill neither will He remove Satan’s freewill, unless a payment is paid that he cannot refuse.
And that payment is God Himself becoming a human being in the form of the sacrificed Jesus Christ.
This ransom allows God to rescue those from Satan’s captivity, which is all those who have the predisposition to obey God.
In actuality, because of this captivity, the human race in its entirety was heading for destruction.
And whilst God would like to rescue all, however AS He cannot rescue Satan, neither can He save those who lack the wherewithal to want to please God with obedience.
All of those that He saves with the predestined life are only those who have that intrinsic desire to obey God. It’s these ones who get rescued with predestination.
And as God knew before He created the angels, the ones who would be faithful to Him, He also knew which angels would rebel against Him with disobedience.
But also with the human race He also knows who will be for Him and who will be against Him. And He helps those who have the intrinsic desire to obey Him, by giving them a particular life that makes repentance possible.
However, although He knows who is predestined, we are not privy to this information, until we see the fruits of their repentance.
Therefore we give everyone the benefit of the doubt trying to win everyone to Jesus Christ.
Who would have reckoned that Saul the great persecutor of the early church would become Paul the apostle.
But unbeknownst to Paul, he had a true heart to please God with obedience, hence God predestined him to do what Paul actually wanted to do, albeit at that time he was initially unaware of it. It was hidden from him, until God met him on the road to Damascus.
And so too is it with us.
Because we the redeemed, never knew we had this great desire to please God.
But nevertheless God knew that we, like Paul, would repent if He orchestrated our lives in such a way to make it possible.
And whilst it’s actually us that repent of our own freewill, nevertheless because God knew we would repent, if He did everything in His power to provide the perfect opportunity for our repentance, we would in fact do it. We’d repent.
He therefore sets the stage for that repentance of our’s to take place.
He therefore makes it possible, by orchestrating our lives in such a way, that give us the perfect opportunity for repentance, knowing full well that we will repent, if given the opportunity to do so.
However without knowing of the existence of predestination we could conclude that it wasn’t fair that we got a particular life making repentance possible, whilst others got lives that didn’t help them to repent.
But now that we know it’s fair instead of being unfair, for those who never got the predestined life, because if they did get it, they never would have exercised their freewill to say yes to God.
My buddy made a comment about his ex's dad that believed God chose him to which my buddy said his ex's dad was prideful. I said, how is thinking God chose you more prideful than thinking you chose your Creator?
What a good example this is. Thank you for your contribution.
@@Qui_Gon_Jinn_76 How do you know that?
@@Qui_Gon_Jinn_76 I don't see how a theology being named after some means it's false. Please help me see your conclusion.
Also, a theology only being around for closer to 500 years has absolutely no bearing on it's truthfulness. Augustine taught many of the same things Calvin and the reformers expounded on.
You calling something heresy is pretty serious.
@@coltonbrewer6632 Romans 8:29 says those He FOREKNEW He predestined...
It didn't say God created some people specifically for heaven and some for hell.
Reformed theology is the doctrine of demons.
@@endtimesareuponus8930 thanks for not referencing the other scriptures that talk of God choosing us. Convenient. You know who else cherry-picked and misused Scripture to his advantage? Satan.
See how harmful that is? You’re not satanic or demonic because you disagree with me. You’re just wrong.
This is awesome
Great to see RC wrote in cursive. I'm gonna learn
I was upset to learn that schools have stopped teaching cursive. Nowadays kids type with their thumbs on their phones and it shows in their thinking, language, and spelling.
is it possible..
that my predestination is heaven, as i am converted 8 or 9 months now and go forward very well,not perfectly yet but life is only about the bible and faith.
or is it because i always was problematic and addicted. that my destiny was most likely hell?. or is that no indication and is there hope...
because sometimes when i hear this i think.. he predestined my for this life and trouble.. so my effort is useless?.. even i know i dont do this all myself. because i had a while that i did lesser with my bible and faith and that time i relapsed very bad 1.5 month...
or how should i see this
Praise be to the Almighty Holy God Who has saved us by the blood of Jesus!
We are saved 5. Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost…
(Titus 3:5)
Romans 8:29-30
For whom He did foreknow, He also did PREDESTINATE to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30
Moreover whom He did PREDESTINATE, them He also called: and whom He called, them He also justified: and whom He justified, them He also glorified.
Ephesians 1:5
Having PREDESTINATED us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
Ephesians 1:11
In Whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being PREDESTINATED according to the purpose of Him Who worketh all things after the counsel of His own will
Даниил Мочалов in all those verses you quoted WHO is being predestined and to WHAT are they being predestined to?
@@apilkey Whom He foreknew (God knows everyone whom He saves - it is clear, He knows what He is doing notlike many people who doesn't understand completely what they are doing :) )
To what:
1) to be Like Jesus Christ
2) to be called and be Justified and be glorified
3) to be adopted
4) to obtain an inheritance
All these describe that we call - salvation
How can I be sure
Brilliant
Consider a typological argument. In all of the Old Testament Scriptures, the father pick the bride and give her to his son. I am unaware of any exception. So...individual members of the bride of Christ are given - like beloved chattel - to Jesus. Examples to the contrary are greatly appreciated.
RIP
He is in Glory, he is home. praise God.
"LET GOD BE TRUE, AND EVERY MAN A LIAR..."
How sad that the leaders of the "Christian church" have embraced the idea of having Augustinism as the "view" to follow, to learn and believe what salvation is all about, while at the same time they cannot see that they have THE BIBLE or The Almighty God Himself, who wrote all of what supposedly Augustin believed and defended as The Truth of God.
No wonder we can clearly see the decayed spiritual state of the "Christian church" with leaders that make the Word of God, words of men and their followers having their heart in this world.
Precipitously decay of the last 60 years at least of what I have been able to study and learn, in which more and more, these men have guided their followers to believe and lean on men, rather than The Almighty God.
But we also MUST remember that is God AND ONLY God, who brought this punishment to the Harlot of the New Testament as prophesied in 2Thesalonians 2 and with it, it's spiritual fall and eventually its eternal destruction for its apostasy and total contempt towards His Sacred Word.
When R.C. said that Ruth Graham was in the "Right" column concerning Predestination, did he mean Correct or Arminian persuasion? I invite your sincere opinion, and God bless.
Arminian
he meant calvinistic persuasion . if I'm not mistaken, she was a Presbyterian
Mentor! ❤
Those who hate God, hate the teaching of the Bible. Forget Names like Calvinism, Augustinianism, etc. The Bible clearly teaches Predestination from beginning to end, therefore the issue is whether you love God's Word or hate it. It is that simple.
Joseph Mellen
Predestination as mentioned in the New Testament, is FOR Christians, not to BECOME Christians.
Beware of false teachers.
Joseph Mellen man i promise it does teach it from beginning to end. In fact it ties in the sons of God to Job 38. Predestination sons of God, the book of life written before creation can be seen all through the word. Love how Gods wisdom is above man. How His knowledge of this world or this age brought His wisdom to the forefront in creation and still he can righteously judge. Wow. And then chose us in Him thats why WE the sons of God before creation (Predestination ) was singing. We are the morning stars who wil recieve THE MORNING STAR as Revelations tell us.
See Job didnt understand this until God explained it to him. However, David and Moses and Isaiah understood this. Ps 139:16 Isaiah 51:16 and Ex 34 i believe. When Moses said take my name out your book.
These lectures were filmed in the early 80s by the looks of it.
@@evanu6579,
Is this what you do? Troll Calvinist videos just to berate them? Is that what you call making good use of the gift you've been given? Is that what it means to walk in the good works God has prepared for you beforehand? Why do I happen to find you in the comment section of every video I watch on this subject blasting the beliefs of others? Seriously, why are you even here?
RC is amazing. I love his humble approach to teaching.
Sproul is ANYTHING but humble.
RC looks like Colombo in this clip
matthew hall exactly
Matthew Hall....."I have just just once more question about...." (you have to be a Columbo fan to get this.
Yes!😁
Every once in awhile he would do a Colombo impression. He was a very warm person wasn't he? Not at all boring or stuffy! Greatly missed~
Sheeez...been trying to put my finger on that forever....Colombo never wouldve come to mind...I watched maybe 3 episodes. Thats been driving me nuts for years, and years. Thank you for closing that little OCD loop in my mind. Thank God for you. 🏆
The one doctrine all the denominations teach, that really is not found in scriptures is substitution (took your place so you don't have to [plug in doctrine]),
28:28
Sproul misclassifies Semipelagianism. Like Augustianism, Semipelagianism insists on the need of divine grace after initial faith, but it denies the need of prevenient grace. In other words, it stands at odds with standard Catholic and Arminian soteriologies, which hold to some concept of debilitating depravity (whether total or partial) that requires the extension of grace as a precursor of faith; thus, those systems would best be labeled Semiaugustinian instead. The Semipelagian position can arguably be found in Eastern Orthodox and Stone-Campbell Restorationism, but it's not a term that applies to everyone who disagrees with Reformed/Lutheran/Jansenist Monergism. In short, Sproul is conflating Semipelagianism in particular with Synergism in general.
I think you're right. A better word to describe the two positions would be monergism and synergism.
Since you mentioned the Jansenist: Could you explain to me what exactly the topic was between a) the the Jansenists and the Jesuits and b) the Jansenist and the Dominicans concerning the relevant topic? I still don't get it.
I'd much appreciate it!
very interesting observation.
"9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him" Hebrews 5:9
"34 Then Peter opened his mouth and said: “In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. 35 But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him." Acts 10:34-35
"3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." 1 Timothy 2:3-4
"9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance." 2 Peter 3:9
"30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent" Acts 17:30
All the glory belong's to"Him"!!!hallelluaahhh!!!
All of the verses you have said that the salvation offered by God requires belief, onedience, rightiousness and etc. My question now is how can a fallen man (or a spritually dead man rom 3:9-12) respond to the offer of God? The answere is non, not unless God opens the heart of man to know Him, man will not know God and His will. So the salvation of man is not based to man's effort but rather to the will of God who chooses him before the world was created.
And who are those letters written to? The elect. It’s not written to the whole world.
@@reylambarte5615 Amen.
I love his sermons, but he spent too much time on the theologians instead on the subject of Predestination
Reformed theology is demonic.
God didn't predetermine who would get saved.
hi
"LET GOD BE TRUE, AND EVERY MAN A LIAR..."
The first letter to the Ephesians IS NOT Paul's letter to the Ephesians, but God's letter through Paul, to the Ephesians and in turn, to every true Christian in the history of men.
When preachers declare that this is what Paul says and that is what Jeremiah says, or Isaiah, John, etc., etc., they make the Bible, simple man's words and turn the Bible into what the world has come to know as, simple writings of men and not the Eternal Word of God.
How sad...
effervescent
Sproul is a Western reformed theologian!
Consider the following from the Christian EAST!
The MISSING DOCTRINE in the Protestant predestination debate is Eastern Biblical GRACE which is "God working in us" to enable ALL people to be free to receive or reject God's love!
Philippians 2:12-13;
Titus 2:11;
1 Timothy 2:3-6
The order is,
Grace > Repentance/Faith > Life in Christ (regeneration)
Jesus is truly God and truly man! The Bible is about the love of Jesus Christ for all!
John 1:1, 14; 3:16; 1 John 4:8
It is by freely believing IN CHRIST by GRACE that we are chosen and elect IN Christ who is God's beloved Son and the only One chosen!
Luke 9:35;
Ephesians 4, 13;
Romans 8:29
These riches in Christ are a result of our freely repenting and being faithful to Christ, which we can only do by the GRACE of God which is "God working in us!"
1 Corinthians 15:10
Apart from Jesus we can do nothing! John 15:5
But God loves His creation and all people and wants all to be saved!
1 Timothy 2:3-6
In love Jesus willingly died for all in order to raise from the dead to conquer death, sin, and the devil for all!
This is Christus Victor!
Hebrews 2:9, 2:14-15;
1 Corinthians 15:22;
Colossians 1:20
God's loving Grace, which works in all who are dead in sin, enables ALL people to freely choose to love God and be saved!
John 6:65; 12:32-33;
Titus 2:11
But the choice to love God remains in all people!
John 7:17; 11:35
The divine order is:
1) Enabling Grace for all!
John 6:65; 12:32-33; Titus 2:11
2) Our freedom to repent and be faithful to Christ! Acts 17:30-31
3) Being united and made alive with Christ (regeneration)!
John 20:31
What the Calvinist system does not have is God's Grace "working in us to enable us," to be free to choose to be in Christ!
Philippians 2:12-13;
John 6:65, 12:33-33;
Titus 2:11
The Calvinist system cannot answer why Adam was created very good and created in God's image and likeness with a "mysterious free will" and Adam lived in a perfect environment and had the Spirit of God and yet Adam disobeyed God and fell from grace!
Therefore, Christians can also fall from grace! Galatians 5:4
The Calvinist belief that God predestined most to go to hell, and that they are given no grace to freely believe is not the God of the Bible Who is Love!
1 John 4:8
God foreknew all those who would believe in His Son by God's Grace!
God predestined them to be like Christ!
Romans 8:28-30;
Ephesians 1:4-5
God did not determine who would believe in Him and who would not! God’s foreknowledge does not cause man’s choices!
To choose Christ and receive Christ's love for us will be Heaven.
To reject Christ and Christ's love for us will be the experience of Hell!
The predestined reprobates in the Calvinist system never have a chance to experience the love of God! This is injustice!
John 3:16
Calvinists believe that in the atonement God the Father poured out wrath and damned and cut off God His Son on the cross! (See Sproul, McArthur, White, etc. sermons) This is a heresy condemned in the Ecumenical Councils because it splits the Eternal Holy Trinity!
Christ died in order to raise from the dead and destroy death, sin, and the devil on behalf of us all!
And now God commands everyone everywhere by the grace of God to repent!
Acts 17:30-31;
Romans 1:20
C86
Number 6 and 7 of the greatest theologians are: Sinclair Ferguson and RC Sproul.
No. I can't agree with you.
JOHN MACARTHER
M
I think you should close off comments
Why is that..
I vote no. Ive read 3 comments that has enriched my study and one that finally put something together I never would've realized....completely unrelated. Im glad the comments are open.
So he can spread doctrine (Reformed theology) of demons without question.
Predestined to be conformed to Christ's image, not chosen to believe
@chooser...They are one in the same.
@@L.Fontein7 Romans 8:29 those Her FOREKNEW....
God didn't predestine who would get saved. So many verses make that clear.
@@L.Fontein7 wrong
@@endtimesareuponus8930 Yes, Exactly. You just made my point - Romans 8:29. Thank you.
If "No free will to choose" were true then the Judgment Seat of Christ and the Great White Throne Judgment (which haven't happened yet) would be a joke. Think on these things:. how could souls be judged and held responsible if their actions had been predestined with no free will? That would be such a cruel and unjust God!
Brother, we have free will but who can go against God's will? What happened to Jonah, he had free will to run but God had other plans!
@@Justsomeguy82Luke 7:30 "But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him". Apparently it can be rejected. Luke 10:31. Jesus says "by chance". 1 Sam 23 David is told by the Lord that he will be delivered to up to Saul, and he and his men leave. God knew what was going to happen but He can allow men's plans to change. Preknown by God is not set in stone, He has all the bases covered
@@jayahladas692 discussing predestination vs. free will, many people so strongly prefer one side that they virtually reject the possibility of the other’s having even a hint of truth. Those who strongly emphasize the sovereignty of God in predestining who will be saved sometimes take a position that resembles fatalism. Those who emphasize the free will of humanity come close to denying the sovereignty of God. However, if the terms are understood biblically, the discussion should not be predestination vs. free will, but rather predestination and not-entirely-free will.
Passages such as Romans 8:29-30 and Ephesians 1:5-11 explicitly teach that God predestines some to salvation. The word translated “predestine” means “determine the destiny before.” There is no escaping the fact that God predetermines who will be saved. On what basis God predestines who will be saved can be debated, but predestination itself is absolutely a biblical teaching. Numerous other New Testament passages also refer to believers’ being chosen or elected to salvation (Matthew 24:22, 31; Mark 13:20, 27; Romans 8:33; 9:11; 11:5-7, 28; Ephesians 1:11; Colossians 3:12; 1 Thessalonians 1:4; 1 Timothy 5:21; 2 Timothy 2:10; Titus 1:1; 1 Peter 1:1-2; 2:9; 2 Peter 1:10).
A totally “free” will would be the capacity to make choices without any external constraints or coercion. There is nothing in the Bible that teaches human beings have this type of free will-only God is perfectly free from all constraint. One difficulty in the discussion of predestination vs. free will is the common understanding of free will being the absolute freedom to do anything we choose. This is not how the Bible presents free will, nor does it match reality. Our freedom is always limited by our circumstances and our nature: e.g., we are limited in our “freedom” to fly because we are not, by nature, birds; and we are subject to physical laws such as gravity and aerodynamics. The Bible teaches that without Christ we are “dead in our trespasses and sins” (Ephesians 2:1). If we are spiritually dead, surely that impacts our decision-making. John 6:44 says that, unless God draws, no one can come to Christ for salvation. If the decision whether to trust in Christ is impossible without God’s “interference,” our will is not totally “free.”
We have a free will in the sense that we are capable of making moral choices. Our decision-making is impacted by numerous factors, though: e.g., our sin nature, our upbringing, our intellect, our training/education, our biology, our psychology, etc. So, no, human beings do not truly have a free will, as popularly defined. We have a will. We can make decisions. Biblically speaking, we have the responsibility to respond to what God has revealed to us, including His call to believe the gospel (John 1:12; 3:16; Acts 16:31; Romans 10:9-10; Revelation 22:17). But, again, our will is not truly “free” because we have constraints that shape our decisions.
Predestination is an explicitly biblical doctrine. Free will is not directly taught in Scripture. If the question is predestination vs. free will, predestination wins decisively, biblically speaking. If the question is predestination vs. will or predestination vs. responsibility, that is more difficult. God is sovereign over everything, including who is saved. Concurrently, we are genuinely responsible for our decisions related to salvation. In the Bible, God repeatedly calls on us to exercise our will and trust in Christ for salvation, and we should pursue obedience to those commands regardless of how well we do or don’t understand predestination.
@@jayahladas692 love you brother, may the Lord bless you with every spiritual blessing
@@Justsomeguy82 you make NO Sense!
MARTIN LUTHER!
Sarah Ward. Why can't people just understand that God already knows from beginning of time who is going to accept His Son Jesus Christ. In one breath people will say that God knows everything from beginning to end of time and on the other hand get upset over predestination.
God knows everything pass present and future. So what's so wrong about Him knowingly admitting to knowing who will accept His Son Jesus our Lord.?
There's only ONE great - YESHUA...
R.C. Sproul forgot
Ephesians 1:12-14 K.J.V That we should be to the praise of his glory, who FIRST TRUSTED IN Christ.
In whom YE also TRUSTED, AFTER that YE HEARD the WORD of TRUTH, the GOSPEL of your SALVATION: in whom also AFTER that YE BELIEVED, ye were SEALED with that HOLY SPIRIT of PROMISE,
Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the REDEMPTION of the purchased possession, unto the PRAISE of his GLORY.
Ephesians 1:12-14
No, he didn't forget those verses...no man mentions every verse of the Bible in a single 20+ minute sermon.
David Pauley it’s not “every verse in the bible” it’s part of the same passage and provides the context of WHO is being addressed; namely BELIEVERS.
Sadly that’s what reformers twist and stumble over that BIBLICAL predestination has absolutely nothing to do with unbelievers becoming believers.
Predestination is NOT about the salvation of lost people.
It’s about the guaranteed future of SAVED people.
Predestination is mentioned 4 times in the Bible in 3 separate verses and NOT ONCE IS IT REFERRING TO SALVATION.
In each case the passage clearly says WHO is being predestinated and TO WHAT they are being predestinated to.
Predestination doesn’t speak to who is saved or not.
Rather, it speaks to the ‘DESTINY’ of those who ARE SAVED/elect.
It speaks to God’s ENDS for the elect who are ALREADY IN CHRIST THROUGH FAITH (Believers).
It is the BELIEVERS who are the ones who love God, and who are therefore foreknown by Him.
IN CHRIST they possess redemption and the forgiveness of sins by faith.
BELIEVERS are predestined by God.
*****It does NOT say that unbelievers are predestined TO BE believers.*****
In all those passages ask your self WHO is being predestined and WHAT are they being predestined to?
**Not once is it an unbeliever.**
**Not once is it predestined to salvation.**
BELIEVERS are predestined to inherit salvation, to be justified and to be brought into glory.
EPHESIANS 1:4 - BELIEVERS chosen to be Holy and Blameless IN CHRIST.
EPHESIANS 1:5 - BELIEVERS
are predestined to be adopted children of God BY JESUS:
EPHESIANS 1:11,12 - BELIEVERS (who first trusted in Christ) are predestined to be the PRAISE OF HIS GLORY:
ROMANS 8:29 - BELIEVERS (those who are in IN CHRIST) are predestined to be CONFORMED TO HIS IMAGE (through sanctification).
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
1 John 2
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Sorry Dr. RC Sproul, but here is the biblical
explaination of Election and Predestination revealed
by Jesus Himself in the
Parable of Wheat and Tares..
In the parable of Wheat and Tares
Matthew 13:24-43 (KJV)
Jesus revealed that there are only
two(2) kinds of seeds in the world,
The Wheat(children of God), and
Tares(children of the devil), Jesus
also revealed that in the end of
the world, all the children of God
will be saved, and all the children
of the devil will be burned in fire..
in verse 35 of this parable, It is
said that what Jesus revealed in
this parable is a mystery that was
kept secret since the foundation
of the world, but was revealed by
Jesus Himself before He was
crucified... Therefore we cannot
find any reference about this in
the old testament because no one
Knew about this revelation of Jesus
in the old testament even
the prophets...
Lesson to understand: 1. All the
children of God are predestined to
be saved.. and all the children of
the devil cannot be saved...
2.Therefore there are many pastors
who are wrong by believing that
they have saved many people by
preaching them the words of God,
because nobody can help God
to save someone else... All those
who are saved are predestined to
be saved even before they were
born... Even the great evangelist
Billy Graham was wrong when he
once said: When I evangelized in
your place I have brought
hundreds of thousands to the
Lord, but because of your laziness
to feed them with God's words
your churches are almost empty
again..
Example of the sons of the devil
can be found in John 8:44, where
Jesus said: Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Example of the sons of God can be
found in Romans 8:14, "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God."
and Psalm 82:6 where God Himself
said: "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High."
Now the question is: If there are
children of God and children of the
devil in the wotld, where did they
came from? Who are their ancestor?
In Genesis 3:15, after God found out
what Adam and Eve did,
God cursed the three of them.. The
serpent who is satan himself, and
Adam and Eve.. God said to the
serpent: "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."
So the serpent has a seed.. Who is
the seed of the serpent? Is it not what
Jesus said about the seed of the devil
in the parable of Wheat and Tares?
How about the children of God who is their great great ancestor? In Luke
3:38, In the Genealogy of Jesus, It is said that Adam is the son of God...
I never heard any preacher that Adam
is the son of God, but it is there in
Luke 3:38, Therefore the descendants
of Adam are the children of God...
If Adam is the great great ancestor of
the children of God, who is the great
great ancestor of the children of the
devil, definitely the seed of the serpent
in Genesis 3:15... But who is the seed of
the serpent? Cain is the seed of the serpent and the descendants of Cain
are the children of the devil...
But is not Cain the son of Adam? No!
You cannot find even one verse in the entire bible that
said, Cain is the son of Adam..
The evidence that Cain is not the son
of Adam is: He is not included in the Genealogy of Adam in Genesis 5..
Cain has his own Genealogy in
Genesis 4... All the descendants of
Cain are evil people...
There is a world of difference between true Biblical predestination and election versus Calvinist "predestination" and "election." Calvinism will use the terms "predestination" and "election" interchangeably to mean the same thing, that is, salvation or damnation which is predetermined in eternity past by God.
Calvinism has hijacked the words, "chose", "chosen", "elect", "election" and "predestinate" and perverted the true definition. The true definition is NOT "chose", "chosen", "elect", "election" for salvation. When the Bible talks about being "chosen" or "elect" or "election", it is referring to individuals that have willingly believed the gospel of John 3:16 and are saved that are "chosen"/"elected" AFTER salvation for MINISTRY/ SERVICE/EVANGELISM.
True Biblical predestination takes place AFTER a person comes to faith in Christ. The Christian is predestinated for 3 things which takes place in the future. True Biblical predestination ONLY applies to those that are saved.
1) They are predestinated to be CONFORMED TO THE IMAGE OF CHRIST - Romans 8:29-30. All saved people will be like Christ. We shall be like Him - 1 John 3:2. This is a future aspect at the Rapture.
2) They are predestinated to have an INHERITANCE in heaven - Ephesians 1:11, John 14:2-4. Again, this is a future aspect.
3) They are predestinated to have GLORIFIED ETERNAL BODIES OF FLESH AND BONE, the REDEMPTION OF OUR PHYSICAL BODIES just like Jesus resurrected body described in Luke 24:39, Ephesians 1:4-5, Romans 8:23, Christ's newly resurrected glorified body is the prototype of what is to come for all saved Christians at the RAPTURE - 1 Corinthians 15:51-54, 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17.
wtom04: You haven't given evidence that you understand either what the Bible says about predestination or what Reformed theology says about predestination. I simply don't think you know either....
wtom04 you are absolutely WRONG!!! God has predestinated us to bo saved not after we are saved!
Romans 8:29-30
For whom He did foreknow, He also did PREDESTINATE to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30
Moreover whom He did PREDESTINATE, them He also called: and whom He called, them He also justified: and whom He justified, them He also glorified.
Ephesians 1:5
Having PREDESTINATED us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
Ephesians 1:11
In Whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being PREDESTINATED according to the purpose of Him Who worketh all things after the counsel of His own will:
Praise be to Holy God for His great mercy.
We are saved 5. Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost…
(Titus 3:5)
R.C. Sproul was the best teacher of this doctrine, in my opinion, of this century and last. He explained clearly what the bible teaches on this difficult subject. Do we fully understand it, no. Just like we don't fully understand the trinity, but true believers believe it because the bible clearly teaches it.
If God knows everything from beginning to end, which he does, then that means before the foundations of the earth, he created man knowing he would be sending the majority to eternal damnation. Chew on that. How could a righteous, loving, good God do that? All I know that if God is Good, then he has a good reason.
We will NEVER know everything about him. We can argue all we want about the subject, but at the end of the day, if we love God and his word, that it what he has done in us. We were blind and hated him before he saved us, on our own, we would be in the same condition because we are sinners and sinners were born enemies of God and are damned to hell.
So praise him for is grace, stay faithful to his word and love one another.
wtom04 amen brother, you seem to be one of the few who understands... before I became saved, I was concerned for my soul but when I received God's holy spirit and was assured of my salvation, my concern shifted from myself to others because like Jesus, I wish for everyone to be saved. If I were to embrace predestination for salvation, why would I be eager to evangelize someone when I know they probably won't be chosen.. and for the same reason, why would I want to bring a child into this world
@@dpastor6631 We understand Reformed (demonic) theology quite well.
Folks, here is where the perverted doctrine of Calvinistic "predestination" originated from. It did not originate from the Bible, but from AUGUSTINE.
"That owing to one man all pass into condemnation who are born of Adam unless they are born again in Christ, even as He has appointed them to be regenerated, before they die in the body, whom He PREDESTINATED TO EVERLASTING LIFE, as the most merciful bestower of grace; while to those whom He HAS PREDESTINATED TO ETERNAL DEATH, He is also the most righteous awarder of punishment not only on account of the sins which they add in the indulgence of their own will, but also because of their original sin, even if, as in the case of infants, they add nothing thereto. Now this is my definite view on that question, so that the hidden things of God may keep their secret, without impairing my own faith." - Augustine, City of God, On the Soul and its Origin, Book 4, Chapter 16.
It appears that Calvin's definition and Augustine's definition of "predestination/election" is identical to Islam's belief in FATALISM and also identical to Stoicism's belief in DETERMINISM. Satan has packaged the same thing under different names - "Predestination/Election", "Foreordination", "Fatalism", and "Determinism."
No, Reformed theology is drawn directly from a correct interpretation of the Bible. It is the message of the Bible. The fact that equate it with fatalism PROVES you have ZERO clue what Reformed theology teaches.
+David Pauley "Reformed" theology is not the message of the Bible, but is basically Augustinianism refined by Augustine's ardent admirer, John Calvin. All 5 points of Calvinism's "tulip" originated from Augustine in his "City of God" heretical writings. There is a world of difference between true Biblical predestination versus "Reformed" doctrine's version of it.
+David Pauley You can't fool me because I was once deceived by the false doctrine of "Reformed" theology which is another name for Calvinism decades ago.
No. I came to this doctrine through reading the Bible, and only through reading the Bible, years before I had even heard of Augustine. I had never read Calvin or Luther or the Reformers of the Puritans, had never listened to Sproul or Piper or MacArthur, etc....I did not attend a Calvinistic church, in fact, I attended Arminian churches that didn't even speak of Calvin or Calvinism.
I simply did a 2 year study through the Bible from Genesis to Revelation and noticed a consistent teaching on God's sovereignty. I dug into the Scripture, compared Scripture with Scripture, found hundreds of verses that addressed this subject, didn't read any outside sources. When I had finished I told a friend one day what I was seeing in the Bible, and he said, "Oh, that's Calvinism." And I said, "What's that?"
Only after that did I go and look into Calvin and Augustine only to discover that they had seen exactly what I had seen.
So, I came to this understanding separate from Augustine, Calvin, etc.
I am more than prepared to defend any issue you may have, and to do so FROM SCRIPTURE rightly interpreted, in context.
However, I believe very much that the devil would have you blinded to this glorious truth. Honestly, I have never yet met a single man who has rejected what you reject who has ever given evidence that he truly understands what is being said. Perhaps you are the exception, perhaps not. I have never found a man coming from your position who was well versed in the Scriptures, who could engage in a true conversation of the biblical text. Perhaps you are the exception. Most men, such as yourself, tend to just drop insults and accusations, then cut and run...they never actually engage in conversation...oh, and they have a hundred reasons or excuses for avoiding the conversation...but all of it is clear evidence that they are unwilling to truly engage the Bible in any meaningful way.
If your position is true, you must be able to defend it from Scripture. You must also give evidence that you actually understand Reformed theology. What makes anyone think you even know what you're talking about? My guess is, you don't understand it, you've read a couple of blogs, have sat under some pastor who is hostile to it, and you've embraced a false characterization of Reformed theology.
+David Pauley No, you came to this doctrine by reading Scripture through the lens of Calvinism. Most of the Calvinists that I have debated will always lie and say that they are "not Calvinist" and "don't know who John Calvin is or who Augustine is".
If Calvinistic "predestination" is true, then how would you feel if God "predestined" those loved ones that are the closest and dearest to you to hell? I know you have family, but I find it hard to believe that God has "predestined" every single one of your family members to heaven. How would you feel if that was your beloved spouse? Your only child? Your parents? Please answer the question.
He digs to deep in speculation...God did it All but forced none to go in His rest......he gets too much reading between the lines and discurs the free will He gave to man like pedobaptism.... yes Gid put limita on our free will but i eat green beans today ..nit broccoli...maby broccoli tomorrow...but in over all its 70% ok
Has anyone noticed, with all these different interpretations on predestination, from Augustine, to men such as Calvin, RC Sproul, John MacArthur, and all in between. That not one of them can be dogmatic with their interpretation.
There would be no debates on the true meaning if it was clearly known. It would be sumply understood, and no need for anyone to defend their interpretation.
That's the problem. It is their interpretation, not Gods interpretation.
What does the word of God say if something is hard to be understood?
2 Peter 3:16
As also in all his (Paul's) epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
---
Those that are unlearned find them hard to be understood.
Listen to what Proverbs says.
Proverbs
1:2 To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;
1:3 To receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, and judgment, and equity;
1:4 To give subtilty to the simple, to the young man knowledge and discretion.
1:5 A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:
1:6 To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings.
1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Proverbs 1:23
Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my Spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.
---
John
15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
---
It has been given to the believer to know and understand his word.
But there is a condition in which scripture is unveiled to the child of God. There is an if.
If we abide in him, we bare fruit. If we bare fruit, this brings glory to God.
If we are abiding and bearing fruit, which brings glory to God, it is then, so shall you be my disciple. Desciple is a student, one who is taught.
That is the condition, the if, we have to be abiding in Jesus to be his disciple. He will unveil his word to those who stay in him, it's a promise.
There is a correct interpretation of predestination that one can be dogmatic about, God's interpretation.
1 Corinthians 14:33
For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
You said all that but if you don't have an interpretation of predestination yourself, What's the point of trying to destroy their arguments??
@@hijohojo2868
At the time I may not have had clear understanding of what chosen, and election meant myself. That doesn't mean I didn't know enough that the Calvinist interpretation was wrong. Their interpretations contradict the character of a loving God that we learn of in the scriptures.
I now have a clear understanding of chosen and election. Its not my interpretation, all scripture is interpreted from scripture.
The Doctrine of Election/The Chosen Ones
One verse explains what so many have been confused about by this doctrine of election.
2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
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The key word to focus on here is, through.
God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation (through) sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
God did not choose us to salvation then period. He chose us to salvation through, sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
God chose to save us through his redemptive plan of salvation, through the finished work of Christ on the cross and raising him from the dead.
God did not choose to save some, we were all chosen to be saved through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the the truth.
To repent and believe the Gospel, and sanctification of the Holy Spirit is how God chose to save all. All will not get saved, many will reject the gospel, but God has chosen to save all of mankind (through) Jesus Christ the Righteous One.
Everyone understands when a president is elected or chosen to be president, he wasn't chosen before he became president. He was chosen through the electoral process, which is the vote of the people. So a president, who is an elected official, becomes an elected official by going through the process.
God chose to save man through the process of the finished work of Christ on the cross, not the other way around, which Calvanist teach that some were chosen to be saved.
They have it all backwards.
Only the FATHER knows.
@stevemarks9820
Yes, and God has clearly revealed that knowledge in his word so that a child of God can understand it.
@@DanielJosephPaul where?