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Next setting should be the Blight City itself, the ramshacle Skaven city/subrealm that is what bursted to each realm. Mordheim/Vermintide vibes and access to every realm so any faction warband can just walk in from anywhere. A lot of verticality for terrain too. Also co-op vs AI mode of players vs the Skaven Horde like in Kill Team and Vermintide video game.

In warcry 3.0 I expect skaven. However, instead of Eshin Clan my bet is Plague Monks warband. I belive that monks give more freedom in design. Also plague monks will be perfect army for devasted city... yep, I assume that we will get similiar terrain to 1st edition. I am not sure about 2nd army in starter set.

Iron-Jaws what about a pig farmer war band with 3 baby pigs and trio of orc herders

On one hand, I understand why they expanded the game to allow players to use most of the AoS range as well as Underworlds, but the original appeal of it being a purely "chaos-flavored" game with new (and cool) chaos models is basically gone (or at least extremely watered-down). Not only that, it instantly created so much bloat, and to your point, they somehow did the opposite of what they should of done by making the Warcry specific warbands kind of mid and all the other AoS options, especially Underworlds, so much more interesting. Instead of acknowledging their mistake of sacrificing the original chaos-only concept for the money grab of allowing other AoS models and do a hard reboot, they try and course correct with a different type of bloat - rules bloat with Universal Blessings and then Battle Traits to try and get you to play mono-flavored warbands that aren't as exciting as mixing it up with Allies or non-Warcry specific warbands in general. That said, for comparison, you can add Genestealers in Necromunda, but the bulk of the range is unique to Necromunda. I think that was the original concept for Warcry too - unique (chaos) setting - and they should of stuck with it, but they got lazy and went the easy route for that quick money (in my opinion). But it kind of killed the game, or at least it's identity, at the same time. Now they are forced to make warbands that can appeal to AoS players and it just perpetuates the continued lack of uniqueness and loss of identity for Warcry in general.

Nighthaunt, Sharpener of the Blade with str or attack blessing, crits for 6 and ability that adds 2 damage to crit for Weilder of the Blade. Ironjaws, bring Boggle eye as a net for melee, force them to wait twice or use and ability then wait.

I always wanted the Ruins of Talaxis to be a ruined overland fallen city vibe w weird seraphon starship stuff adding pizzazz. But it sure feels like ruined city a la spearhead terrain would be a great vibe, especially w good rooves and verticality

A real Daughters of Khaine warband would be wonderful

I want Shadow Ironjawz with tiger stripe purple came body paint a la Schwarzenegger in Commando

Fascinating, love the lore and insights

I haven't finished the video yet, but as a thought, if the setting is on a coast, that would give Idoneth a good way into the game

I have been hoping for an Ulgu flavored setting since after I saw the first Meat Tree. Considering how Warcry has historically been the vanguard of pushing the story line along in AoS in general, I actually kind of doubt Aqshy will be the feature setting. Especially since they will need an excuse to release those extra and inevitable Skaven warband. Gloomspite seems to have some representation in Ulgu as well. To see both of those in a single box... oh man. Insta buy. As a fan of the original bespoke warbands, I fear for the future though. Mostly because I refuse to give them up, and I end up being some change resistant luddite who considers the game "Complete", like we see with Mordheim. Though with as casual as my group seems to be, nobody is going to bat an eye about bringing everything forward regardless of GW's pointed omission.

I love Gloomspite, but it feels like we've already got enough goblins riding things - especially if/when the new Gitmob models get Warcry rules - I think I'd prefer for them to go harder on the Gobbapalooza angle of a bunch of crazy pseudo shamans - maybe as a warband they came across a particularly weird mushroom patch which drastically increased their affinity for magic - the Mushroomancer is an incredible model, and I'd love for a whole warband themed around hallucinations becoming reality

Ironjawz have that anvil/forger hero in AoS that didn't get Warcry rules. A warband based on smithing with anvils, big hammers and white hot metal could be cool!

I think thr Vanguard Hunters for Stormcast are in the same spot as Gutter Runners. Old versions in the new Stormcast battletome, but with newer sculpts for other Vanguard figures (eg. Palladirs). Vanguard vs Gutter Runners in Ulgu? On Ulgu, theyre also puahing Belakor in Slaves to Darkness battletome - mentioning his realm as well. Maybe the narrative is leaning there?

Great vid guys, love the team up! I'm not expecting massive changes from Warcry 3.0 I think the fact that theyre still supporting compendium and UW fighters in FAQ now is a good sign they'll still be in the game in the next edition. But I do think we'll see a culling of the older chaos bespokes and some of the no longer available models/factions at the start of 3.0

The Gaol of Kragnos is the mountain Kragnos was trapped within until he broke out.

In terms of packaging bespoke warbands to make newcomer lists easier, one idea could be to include a couple example lists named after specific themes or game plans of that faction in the rules booklet of that box. For example if you want this fast control list use models A B C and D. Or if you want these bigger punchy units use A C E and F.

My regrets : -We didn't get a Beasts of Chaos warband...in the freaking Realm of Beasts! But it was to be expected. I will still say on my deathbed that GW really did them dirty, and that just leaving them in the Old World is not what they deserved. My wishes : -Not really sure what we would need for a 3rd edition to be honest, but I would actually like if there were ways to play Bespoke warbands' stuff into their main faction a bit more easily than with allies. It's not a bad system per say, but it feels weird to have to "ally" my Royal Beastflayers into FEC or vice-versa. But maybe I'm just the one weird one for wanting that X) -Speaking of bespoke warbands, if there is a 3rd edition, GW please look at the rules for the weaker ones. I want stuff like Claws of Karanak to feel like I have a realistic chance of using some of their abilities, but they are both hard to activate and don't really give you a lot. And I'm sure they aren't the only ones in need of some tweaks. -Still hoping for more monsters for all factions as well! Some big crocodile monster, or a giant Mantis for Sylvaneth...the possibilities are endless! -Would be nice to have a proper big Talaxis Ruin. We have bits, but there is something lacking after all that time spent looking for it. -For the next Realm...anything really, but since we seemed to be in the Realm of Fire, I don't mind staying there a bit longer, as long as we get some stuff to go along with it. Maybe some Volcanic decor could be really cool.

It was an absolute pleasure! Thanks for having me on the channel, Dan! 🙌 WALRUS FTW! 🦭

Ironjawz are tricky. The standard brute kit is not due for an update, but eventually it could be rebooted as a warband like the Ogor Gorgers. In the meantime, the only thought I had was a Boar Herder, riding a juvenile grunta and leading a pack of gruntlets. Maybe the elites are goblin assistants riding gruntlets. They have never made a cavalry unit specifically for Warcry, which makes me a little skeptical about this concept or spider riders being released as warcry products, but a new edition is the best chance for a paradigm shift. GW may choose to emulate killteam and underworld's business model, but it might be that warcry serves them best as a sales driver for existing lines. Warcry is both a 'vertical' avenue between Underworld and AoS, and a 'horizontal' pathway encouraging players to branch out into other factions. The 2-3 kits used to build a generic faction warband might be a better nucleus for a new AoS army than a single bespoke kit. Regardless of what direction they go in, I expect future warcry releases to be more integrated into their AoS ranges in a way that reduces the rules overhead for both game systems.

Is this a salty rumorwang?!

Instant like, loving this unexpected team-up.

Well I wish you WOULD talk more about more of the teams you placed because I'm coming back and seeing my favorite flavor team, hunters of huanchi, suddenly considered A tier? Why? What changed? Was there a stat update? What happened? I couldn't jack shit with them but die when i stopped and bow they are A ?

Great video! In most of the points I have to agree with you. However, I see the game as big trash for GW. You can throw here almost anything from AOS outside heroes and monsters and do not care much about it. People will just buy minis and play before they will go to AoS. I think that current Warcry is for huge nerds. It is a riddle to solve... to find optimal army list when there are so many options. IMO ironjawz are not as good as many people are thinking. Being one of the top players in Poland after testing them I will not take them for competetive game - it is quite easy to counter them. Last 4 bespoken warbands are joke. And as you said this is bad for Warcry, because we are not getting new players. The more I think about Warcry the more I see it as an old specialist game for hardcore fans.

Hexbanes hunters sold themselves for sure

as a bonereaper player I was exicted about Teratic Cohort until I saw their stats...very disappointing

I think Warcry has a perfect fit in GWs lineup but I also think it's a problem for them that they haven't locked down players to their Warcry products. 90 % of my products are from AoS and Underworld that I use in WarCry. I think the majority are like me or also as you mentioned using proxies. When the pencil pushers looking at sales for the different lineups Warcry can't look that good. I hope GW just see it as a compliment for brining in players into their franchise and not necessarily as raw sales number.

Wallet discipline... You know me so well sir, like insides of own pocket. You made my day.

It is really mind-boggling that the majority of the products specifically for Warcry aren't at least the backbone for doing cool/competitive things in the game they are designed for.

I am reminded of my time dabbling in MMOs, over a decade ago, when the new class had to be better than everything, or else people wouldn't play it (even in co-op modes) and the developers wouldn't have the data necessary to eventually nerf it appropriately. It's how you have to do it, and I suppose in another sense the chasers of the new shiny can be given something as reward for subsidizing the fine-tuned version of our pastime. It's interesting that many of the best skirmish games (Mordheim, Necromunda, Relicblade, Frostgrave, etc.) are based around campaign play, wherein the balance of power will shift as events and pieces develop; while Warcry straddles the line, with a nifty but lightweight narrative mode (in which one is managing bench depth more than roster improvement), and a market that is obsessed with "competitive balance" and recoils from commitment. Warcry-specific factions are stuck in an odd place. It is reasonable to expect that one will have to purchase more than just one box of your faction in order to graduate into the full version of the game. It is not so reasonable to expect the customer to buy a second, identical $60 box from which he will take maybe three guys, leaving the rest on the sprue. Not sure where this leaves us. Booster packs? The failures are glaring because they have the model, and they largely follow it. It's Mordheim. You have your Leader (Leader), your Heroes (Specialists/Champions), and your Henchmen (chaff) to do the dirty work. It hasn't changed. They've even shown that they can make a mostly midrange faction that is popular, fun, and viable in the Vulkyn Flameseekers (who probably lose design points to the Darkoath because the latter don't have abilities based around a cutesy mascot pet that's crap). What you can't do is make a faction in which nobody is particularly good at doing anything that matters.

This is a good reminder that the complexity of the game and the factions therein is sufficient that there is a bit of a puzzle to figuring out the best way or ways to get the most out of any given one, and that the answer or answers might not be obvious or the most commonly repeated advice, especially in a comparatively limited field. Bit of rational whiplash in this one, though. Starts out discussing the extent to which the numerous variables at play, such as imperfect player input, confound attempts to read the results straight -- all well and good -- and then about half-way through announces a dismissal of any consideration of sample size in data analysis -- except perhaps when raised by the Expert. This is starting to sound like faith-based statistics, or worse some sort of New Age Gnostic cult. What should we make of win-rates when Venus is in ascendance? Or do we learn that when we reach Level Three in the Program?

I think it was Polar who had a neat list using pureflood w a melee ko list

Order feels less popular lately in the meta, so great to start the series there, remind the people why Order still has game and fun to it.

Great video. In general would much rather see the designers focus on making bad stuff into fun and synergistic things instead of nerfing points on powerful things and reducing the number of cool things out there. Its also weird to rebalance points on underworlds warbands that new players usually cant buy..... this game is one of the best onramps into wargaming by its rules, but the good starting place right now is tricky for a new player to stumble onto, compared to all the new shiny traps that are overstocked at stores.

If they make Warcry 3.0 a Mordheim throwback (i.e Mordheim but AoSified) I'm sure they have a hit on their hands again.

Casual Warcry player here who has always wanted to go deeper on Warcry but finds competitive list building really unexciting (Bladeborn fighters should have been narrative-only). At this point I would be pretty happy for Warcry to go down the Kill Team route and have fixed lists because it's clear that GW can't support it as a product.

I think power creep is very problematic in "eternal formats" (think formats without resets), as it basically forces consumers to constantly buy new shit. I especially hate it when a new release is basically identical to something that already exists, but is just slightly better, so you more or less have to replace the thing you own if you want to play competitively. In GW's games, I think power creep is much less problematic, as editions are getting shorter and shorter, and sure, sometimes a given meta is completely ruined for X months/years when power creep goes awol (Oko/Lurros to stick to the MtG example), but then the next release hits, and it's on to the next BroKEnTM thing. Also, just make the game fully digital, and meta ruining power creep can be instantly tuned down (copium). I know that you touched on most of these points in the vid, but I happen to share these beliefs. Finally, at least where I live, Warcry actually IS completely dead. The only reason people buy Warcry releases here is because they are sweet models, and sometimes they are great in AoS, which is very popular.

Great video. I haven't been paying warcry (or any gw/most minis games) in awhile (health issues) so I haven't had my finger on the pulse. I saw the title and it raised an eyebrow, but I remembered you/your channel was always pretty levelheaded so I gave it a watch. I'm happy I did. Really thought provoking tbh. I don't agree with every point made, but I really liked hearing your thoughts about this topic relevant to many games but specifically in reference to warcry. Appreciated how informative but also entertaining the vid was too. I almost want to push myself to get back into warcry just so i can contextualize your vids haha. Keep up the great work!

Thanks for saying what needs to be said. But as you mentioned, the GW product management hiearchy seems to just not give a shit what happens with Warcry or really care about what the community thinks or says. Or perhaps we are seeing an ongoing internal fight between the Warcry product group and some other product group that wants the resources allocated to Warcry. Thus not enough time and effort into developing Warcry warband mechanics (although the models are often really good) and not enough time for play testing. Perhaps there is a clue in that there is a World Championship for Underworlds but not Warcry? Oh well, thought I would comment to help your RUclips stats and let you know some of us are listening : )

Feels like we’ve been in Ghur forever and the esthetic sucks, they need to take us to a new realm, drop a new terrain set and really dig deep to make some awesome new warbands that are gorgeous sculpts and that are competitive/fun to play, maybe expansions for the old Warcry factions or something. When ever I play nowadays I only play non-bespoke warbands. I’ll be honest the fire ghosts were the closest I’ve come to being interested in a bespoke warband in a looong time.

Loved this!

Obligatory Questor advocacy here : The Questor Soulsworn are the G.O.A.T ! The true elites of elites ! 2.0 is better because of it !

I think another part is the hobby side. Any fast, smaller scale game feels like something that should be easy to get into. Except now you need to learn to paint models. Compared to for example Star Wars: X-Wing getting started with Warcry is much more involved.

I already have a sylvaneth force. I was going to buy the corrupted ones but they seemed kind of lacking rules wise by comparison.

An interesting consideration that I feel like you didnt touch on is that GW is essentially immune to long term power creep in a way that mtg isnt with edition cycling. Who cares how wild things get at the end of an edition when everything can get reset without doing much harm to the game or community as a whole in like it would in mtg

Thanks for your insights. I find myself hoping more and more for a balanced one box bespoke format for 3rd edition (maybe with a rotating roster of warbands). I think it would bring back character to the game and allow bespoke warbands to function in a more synergistic way.

Part of the problem is the beginner box perhaps. It does seem that GW skips asking important questions when it releases a product: Who is this for? How will they know that? How will we promote it? I agree that some power creep would generate discussion points.

Podcast again when?

Any tips for bonesplitterz? I love them even if they got squatted

So I'm wondering where this kinda data is available? New to warcry and interested in diving into the data, but only a few people play locally