Great and hopefully eye opening psa for people. It is just wild to see how killy things have become, and often with enough dice to be pretty reliable. The whiffs do happen and can swing a game, but wow is little safe especially with a chance of rampage spiking it even higher versus your own hitters.
It really is interesting that in the current game, the value of a fighter is often based on "how much damage can this fighter do?" And by extension "how well does this fighter benefit from a blessing that boosts its effectiveness?" I this highlights the general lack of conteol abilities in warcry, but that may not be a bad thing. Folks show up with their wardollies to roll dice and engage in wanton figurative violence (usually). Divine blessings usually help that along. What is interesting to think about is "what would a world without divine blessings look like?" But then you just have to look back to a year and a half ago.
I started playing warcry like a year ago. Beginning with warcry, I wasn't aware that everyone is running blessings and it felt awful playing against some hyper optimized lists that abuse a model that was balanced around one weakness (low attacks/str) and now add few points and that fixes it. Wish that these blessings wouldn't exist at all. Its just not fun seeing vexmor all the time with the same ol buff. Wish the otpional rule was actually optional and must be agreed upon before a match like it said in the rules and not that tournaments would force you to use it or run an unoptimized list
@Graccus1330 that's a good idea, but it's probably best to wait awhile so it's not just immediately following a taboo on the subject. That way I'm not "leading the witness"
@@thesaltyseagames I'm interested to hear your personal opinion on it, though. Like, is the competitive game in a fun place when it is dominated by psycho super killers and the need to respond to them? I am a witness willing to be led on this one
@@isaactomangrief9158 Hmm... well the competitive side of a listbuilding game is always going to revolve around something, so big damage is no different to me than when Warcry revolved around fast pets, or slow durable chaff, or move 10 fliers. High-Damage elites do tend to pubstomp 1-box bespoke warbands especially hard, but they are counter-able. You can play nets, chaff, play your own big smashers... the games are still fun as long as ur aware of what's happening, it just seems like not everyone going to events is aware.
@@thesaltyseagames I think this is a very judicious comment. The intuitive reaction to anything dominating the meta is to hate it, but Iyou're absolutely right. Galaxy brain moment. Any meta has to be built around one pillar or another, the idea of perfect balance between all types of units, list constructions, and playstyles is implausible. That leads to a much more interesting set of questions: what is a good pillar for this game's meta? What does good mean in this game? I fully appreciate this is not the point of your video - you have the rather more tangible goal of informing people about what to expect at competitive events - but it got me thinking about this stuff.
Is there a simple solution that doesn't result in the pendulum swinging completely away from Divine Blessings? A points-cap on who can receive them? Three tiers of costs? Or are they cast aside if they aren't right at that particular level of efficiency? (Also, thumbs up on the inclusion of numbers from the distribution of results in addition to averages; showing what can actually happen, I find, often helps folks visualize the outcome more clearly than presenting just the mean.)
@kidzurag i forgot to put Stalkers and Morghast on the spreadsheet. Death can make big damage happen but it's siloed to just Nighthaunt and OBR. You're right that the rest of Death can't really do it.
I’m so torn about Divine Blessings. On the one hand, players being able to customize any fighter offers a whole other dimension to list building. On the other hand, I think, for me, it’s just one level of complexity too much. I’m also not convinced that, especially given the lead time in product design, that GW considered divine blessings in is recent releases when it comes to balance. I can’t, for example, believe that when they statted out Vexmor, that they took into account people adding +1 attack
I’m not a fan of the nickel and dime balance pass that is blessings. We only use them in our narratives and sometimes they’re single battle/single use bonuses. As far as I know, you don’t get to cram extra points in the other GW games (though I’m not sure nor should it mean Warcry can’t be different) but I just don’t think it needs it. Make a list, and if you have points left over, you have points left over. 🤷♂️
Divine Blessings were a really good idea to very cheaply (from GW's POV) to shake up the meta. However I really hope they disappear soon, as I don't think they're healthy for the game's design space in the long run.
Great and hopefully eye opening psa for people. It is just wild to see how killy things have become, and often with enough dice to be pretty reliable. The whiffs do happen and can swing a game, but wow is little safe especially with a chance of rampage spiking it even higher versus your own hitters.
It really is interesting that in the current game, the value of a fighter is often based on "how much damage can this fighter do?" And by extension "how well does this fighter benefit from a blessing that boosts its effectiveness?"
I this highlights the general lack of conteol abilities in warcry, but that may not be a bad thing. Folks show up with their wardollies to roll dice and engage in wanton figurative violence (usually). Divine blessings usually help that along.
What is interesting to think about is "what would a world without divine blessings look like?" But then you just have to look back to a year and a half ago.
I started playing warcry like a year ago. Beginning with warcry, I wasn't aware that everyone is running blessings and it felt awful playing against some hyper optimized lists that abuse a model that was balanced around one weakness (low attacks/str) and now add few points and that fixes it. Wish that these blessings wouldn't exist at all. Its just not fun seeing vexmor all the time with the same ol buff. Wish the otpional rule was actually optional and must be agreed upon before a match like it said in the rules and not that tournaments would force you to use it or run an unoptimized list
You should run a poll to see if your viewers even like blessings, or if they would rather see them go away
@Graccus1330 that's a good idea, but it's probably best to wait awhile so it's not just immediately following a taboo on the subject. That way I'm not "leading the witness"
@@thesaltyseagames I'm interested to hear your personal opinion on it, though. Like, is the competitive game in a fun place when it is dominated by psycho super killers and the need to respond to them? I am a witness willing to be led on this one
@@isaactomangrief9158 Hmm... well the competitive side of a listbuilding game is always going to revolve around something, so big damage is no different to me than when Warcry revolved around fast pets, or slow durable chaff, or move 10 fliers. High-Damage elites do tend to pubstomp 1-box bespoke warbands especially hard, but they are counter-able. You can play nets, chaff, play your own big smashers... the games are still fun as long as ur aware of what's happening, it just seems like not everyone going to events is aware.
@@thesaltyseagames I think this is a very judicious comment. The intuitive reaction to anything dominating the meta is to hate it, but Iyou're absolutely right. Galaxy brain moment. Any meta has to be built around one pillar or another, the idea of perfect balance between all types of units, list constructions, and playstyles is implausible. That leads to a much more interesting set of questions: what is a good pillar for this game's meta? What does good mean in this game?
I fully appreciate this is not the point of your video - you have the rather more tangible goal of informing people about what to expect at competitive events - but it got me thinking about this stuff.
Is there a simple solution that doesn't result in the pendulum swinging completely away from Divine Blessings? A points-cap on who can receive them? Three tiers of costs? Or are they cast aside if they aren't right at that particular level of efficiency? (Also, thumbs up on the inclusion of numbers from the distribution of results in addition to averages; showing what can actually happen, I find, often helps folks visualize the outcome more clearly than presenting just the mean.)
I'm curious why you say order is the only grand alliance that can't put out big damage when it seems like death is equal to or worse at it
@kidzurag i forgot to put Stalkers and Morghast on the spreadsheet. Death can make big damage happen but it's siloed to just Nighthaunt and OBR. You're right that the rest of Death can't really do it.
I’m so torn about Divine Blessings. On the one hand, players being able to customize any fighter offers a whole other dimension to list building. On the other hand, I think, for me, it’s just one level of complexity too much. I’m also not convinced that, especially given the lead time in product design, that GW considered divine blessings in is recent releases when it comes to balance. I can’t, for example, believe that when they statted out Vexmor, that they took into account people adding +1 attack
I’m not a fan of the nickel and dime balance pass that is blessings. We only use them in our narratives and sometimes they’re single battle/single use bonuses. As far as I know, you don’t get to cram extra points in the other GW games (though I’m not sure nor should it mean Warcry can’t be different) but I just don’t think it needs it. Make a list, and if you have points left over, you have points left over. 🤷♂️
Divine Blessings were a really good idea to very cheaply (from GW's POV) to shake up the meta. However I really hope they disappear soon, as I don't think they're healthy for the game's design space in the long run.