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My pleasure! More coming very soon...finally! :D

I think Kurtzman gave Toth crap about blacking out the figure in those panels, but ran it as Toth drew it. Toth's rep is well-known and he was usually difficult. Harvey was fine in this collab, but both had egos/disagreements, and they did only two stories together. Kubert, later, I think, was unfair and dictatorial, with the later Enemy Ace story. Neither Kubert or Adams acted well in that incident. I've heard the same about the pages in trunk, tho it could be totally or partially apocryphal. I don't view Comics as mainly visually, but a hybrid of word and picture. Harvey laid our Saber Jet, and had more than a little to do with the visuals and rhythms. With comics, we're reading word and pictures.

@comixcrush I partially agree. But you can't employ Alex Toth, volcanic and brilliant Alex Toth, and expect him to, excuse my language, be your bitch. There are some journeymen artists thst will make changes at an editor's whim, and there are artists who do it their way. And that was Alex Toth. The failure was Kurzman's to think AT would be amenable. He's followed the rhythm of the layout but made an artistic decision. And it doesn't affect the narrative. As regards the DC story, Kubert was right. Alex was given a story that had been signed off. He chose to rewrite the story and Kubert said no, here's your art back, you were given a story and your job was to tell the story. That's a whole different ball game. Toth could have sold the story elsewhere. But it wasn't the story written by an author who was paid for his work and would expect credit. Kubert was a model professional and Neal Adams was a huge advocate for creator's rights, so I'd be careful about making a judgement about their decisions or thought processes.

@@mesolithicman164 I agree with your first part. Seems, then, that Kubert should have known what he'd get in hiring Toth. It's his prerogative, of course, as editor, but it feels like a power play, to me. Probably Toth should've not accepted the job. And he turned down many, from many. But it was known that Toth altered scripts all the time. I fully understand Kubert's side of the story, and it's probably true, but I've also read accounts directly from both Kubert and Adams, who denigrated Toth's approach a bit, and were a little gleeful in redrawing the story together. Overall, I have respect for all four players here, but they were all flawed, too, and most had a very long history with each other, with many moving parts.

Glad you find those particular episodes useful, and thanks for saying so. Nice point you made. Keep up drawing! More episodes soonish...

If you mean the analysis, thanks! If you mean Toth's work - yep!

Single issues were released earlier this year, so you can snag them. The Kickstarted HCs are set to be shipped shortly, I believe.

Naw, it was a good line, and when I went in with black, quickly, the brush went too far. Were I to go back in with white-out, I would cut back into that line. There's no doubt, though, that a lot of underdrawing should/could be covered to simplify, and if one looks ta Alex's originals, he often covers lines most wouldn't. Thanks much for the comment!

Glad you liked it. Toth is TOPS.

Thanks, glad you found this episode useful.

Yeah, that's better stated and more specific than "simplicity."

Same!

Fair.

Thanks for saying so , Jason. Glad you liked it! Phil's a peach.

No sweat. Love the show, Paul

Not many pencils exist, but there are some here and there, many of which I've posted on ATID IG. A good amount of unfinished pencil work was included in the Bravo For Adventure Artist's Edition, which provide insights to his process and thoughts. His pencils, to me, look different from most artists. He was thinking in terms of outline and overlap, rather than anatomical/structural underdrawing. He used reference, but would usually study it, set it aside, then draw, he said. Most of what he did was from his head. I see little evidence he used a lightbox, though he may have at times, and likely did on some character design/concept work for Hanna-Barbera. He wrote about these topics, but I'd have to revisit, collate and unpack.

There are a bunch of character design books available, but mileage may vary.

LOL!

Glad you liked it - thanks for saying so!

Glad you found it and liked it, Lucas. I'm very pleased to have talked and recorded with JP. Hope you like the other episodes.

Someday soonish, one hopes...

Adams's work is exciting - he certainly caught my eye as a teen, and he was innovative with page structure at times early on, but it became apparent to me much of it is surface level and flash (much as still like some of his comics work and illustration). You're right about Alex's approach. Some may find it inscrutable or too subtle, but it's always been apparent to me he had something that went to the essence of everything, only sometimes obscured by the analytical abstraction. Kirby & Toth, despite their obvious differences, have some crossover, like you say.

@@comixcrush That's a great take. As an 11 year old kid, Neal Adams' art on Batman thrilled me. But within a couple of years I started to look for something other than brilliant rendering. And then I found in Kirby a primal quality, softened by Sinnot's inks, but still something supercharged. At this time all comic artists seemed to be doing versions of Kirby or versions of Adams. And then I came across Toth. I think I found an old VHS tape of Space Angel and was intrigued by the artist whose work was being ( crudely) animated. But his characters, spaceships and backgrounds were compelling. So finding his name on the end credits, he became an artist I had to find out more about ( pre-internet). So, little by little I started to buy his stuff and became increasingly fascinated, less by his rendering, but more by his thought process. Deceptively simple, yet sophisticated. I think the clincher for me was his war story " White Devil, Yellow Devil", after that I was hooked. Neal Adams, for all his technical brilliance, could never have told that story in such a cinematic way. Adams would have has big action figures, screaming faces etc. That's the Toth difference.

Glad you found it so! if you haven't, do check out the other episodes :D

Thanks, Marco

Who forgot?!

@@comixcrush I just meant to say that the stories about Toth working long and late and being at his desk all the time are also a painful statement about the effects of low payment in actual households. We 'know' that comics have never been wellpaid, but we don't always get an insight what that meant to artists and their families at home. I guess I used the phrase "don't forget" because we as a society sometimes forget how much our standard of living has gone up.

@@gerapeldoorn8283 Gotcha. Rates weren't great back then, guys like Alex and Jack had to churn to earn. Likely a reason Alex was drawn to TV animation. This is a topic ever present in classrooms at MCAD with Comics majors. Still, many go there with eyes open for the love of it. I'm back at comics myself now that I can, after working in commercial art for decades. No doubt rates have stagnated, or are lower, yet I do have friends in Comics who are busy and thriving.

One would hope one could excel in one's field while living a healthy and balanced life.

@@comixcrush yes absolutely, but it would be in that case just a standard artist, there’s ton of that ones, we don’t remember them much, we don’t study their work all around the world or create a RUclips channel just to talk about them. He was not a standard comic book artist that excel. It had the gift or the curse or whatever you want to call that. The spark. All geniuses have this same problem, they need to isolate to produce his art. All that life energy that he put in his art, It’s the life he didn’t live with others. Evidently he couldn’t choose, he has to do it that way even knowing the high cost… to be the boss.

@@DJhSnn Certainly true of other creative heroes of mine like Welles, F L Wright, etc. But I guess I don't completely buy in to the notion that one must suffer or neglect one's personal relationships to reach the top. I cover Alex Toth to this extent 'cause I think he had a special touch, which was evident before he even had kids. No doubt he developed it further over long time due to being to dedicated/focused. I could cite plenty of genius creative types who seemed balanced/well adjusted.

@@comixcrush I understand, but I am not saying that in order to reach the top yo must do that. I am saying that those things are consequence of the genius that makes you reach the top, you can’t avoid it. It doesn’t mean that they are bad persons or that they are incapable to have families, love etc, simply their task and art it’s more important, it’s like being possessed by it. Later you realize that while you were immerse in your passion your kids grow up etc. On the other hand , I don’t remember a real genius -not a good artist…- a genius, that doesn’t have the same behavior as Toth at some point. I don’t remember really good art coming from a happy family man. You need isolation and concentration and it’s time that hurts your relations.

@@DJhSnn I could name plenty, but we could around and around on this forever, so I'll spare you the list. And we're into semantics considering the definition of "genius," which I usually reserve for only a few.

Sweet!

Pleased you enjoyed it, thanks, Keith.

What about him?

Thanx much for taking the time to comment - glad you found the program! The widescreen comics you saw as a child may have been the Crime and Punishment comics he did in '54, for which the publisher had him employ an inner-curved all-around page border effect, and asked him to think in 3-D, a fad then in movies. Many panels in these stories are super-widescreen: War In the Streets; The Burner; and The Armored Car Murders. I've posted some of these panels in previous ATID IG posts, but will post more soon... Land Unknown I covered at length in my TothPix blog about a decade back. It's no longer up online, but perhaps I'll clean u/p and make that available as a PDF. I love that for all the reasons you cite, and more, tho I do think dinosaurs were a rare weak point for him. The Angry Red Planet panels are real cool, tho even in the larger IDW book it's reprinted from poor copies. A few of the panels have surfaced recently of original art (in pencil?). He did indeed draw The Time Machine for Dell, tho I think MOTW may be a one-pager. I'd love to hear more form you as you make your way thru other episodes :D

@@comixcrush THANKS for the comments, especially for a little background on those widescreen comics. (I also came across this idea in Kirby's ADVENTURES OF THE FLY, the first few issues of which Kirby drew that also used a widescreen effect spread across the 2 pages of the centerspread. I think it was called the "widescream" or wide-angle scream. You mention the era of 3-D movies (I grew up seeing films like IT CAME FROM OUTER SPACE in the original p2-projector, polarized releases), which brings to mind another attempt by comics to mimic movies: ACG comics came up with something they called "True 3-D" which, unlike actual 3-D/red-green comics merely featured panels surrounded by black instead of the standard white page background, with objects, characters etc "popping" off the edges of the panels as if they were into 3-dimensional space. Btw, I hadn't realized that it was you who did that wonderful, masterful breakdown of THE LAND UNKNOWN comic years ago! I screen-grabbed the entire blog and printed the whole thing out! Wow! Really got me thinking far more deeply about inter-panel as well as panel dynamics and meaning! Even though I have it, knowing you were the one who did that now, I still think it would be great to hear some dialogue between you and perhaps another artist about that issue! I find it endlessly fascinating. Teh 3 boards i have of Toth's work on THE ANGRY RED PLANET are a mix of ink with pencil shading. Teh director was a long time friend of mine, so a lot of his papers were willed to me, and those original boards were included. I also knew Norman Maurer who worked with the director (Ib Melchior) to get the film done. (I should note that Toth's impressions of what happened on the set, with Pink taking over are not accurate. In fact, in our own interview with Toth, he said that Norman helped a lot for the first couple of days to deal with getting things moving faster, but only the first couple days. I also interviewed a number of the actors and others on the film, and they all recall Ib directing the film himself, and no one had a good word to say about Pink who was seen as a major disruption....But I digress big time!) RE: MASTER OF THE WORLD: I know Toth did a one-page spread that appeared in the film's pressbook, which was intended to be reproduced in newspapers in conjunction with the release of the film. The comic tie-in DOES look like Toth's work, but perhaps not. I'm no expert, for sure. Thanks so much again! I am very keenly interested in your podcast and will subscribe. Toth forever! Very cool! (and please forgive typos: I haven't fully proofread my text. I am experiencing vision problems/it is hard to see what I am typing.)

​@@RSEFX Interesting background on TARP, thanx. Flattering that you printed out my LAND UNKNOWN blogstuff. Maybe I WILL have someone on to discuss it! MASTER OF THE WORLD: comics database sez art on Dell #1157 is Jack Sparling, not Toth. Lastly, you mention Kirby's FLY - when DC/Impact took on the character, I inked most of the 17 issues of that run :D Thanks for the support and engagement, Paul

@@comixcrush THANKS for clearing up t re: the MASTER WORLD comic art. I haven't looked at it in years/in fact never really studied it. I recall it being not terribly compelling. Ha, I never knew that DC ever took on THE FLY series.I quite liked the 2-3 Archie-Kirby issues. They had a "mood" (tho the character's origin reminded me a bit of the original Capt. Marvel). Thanks for the info. I'll keep up with your videos. (btw, how often do you post a new video on YT? Do you have another coming up soon? ) Over and out. ;-7

HAHAHAHAHA

Pleased you enjoyed it, Lee, and glad you found it!

I don't know all the details of David's situation, and hope he'll be well.

Sure, just "artists' artist" is an oft-used term when discussing Toth. And, yes, that is one reason Toth didn't work on best selling books.

Good picks! I do wonder if Seventh Seal is so well-realized what else Toth would've done with it. No doubt he was acutely aware of what Bergman, Welles, Hitchcock and many other filmmakers were up to.

I guess it looks messy due to the duo-tone and printing. If one looks at the original art, it's really clean. But the printed version (in whatever form) is all I'd ever known till more recently. I love the look of 39/74, the drawings/compositions/storytelling, and the concept is intriguing, but find the writing/structure perfunctory.

One can find it out there, and Image did both volumes in one. Also, it seems to be free on Kindle.

Oh, yes - in the Dell style!

Glad you liked it, Dean. Fave Toth for me is hard to choose, but I tried my best in early Essential episodes, Top 10, and Top 5 To Study.

All bad artists

@@reginaldforthright805 yeah bad hehe

Image is 💩

I've not, personally.

Thanks, me too.

Thanks kindly for the comments, Stephen. This was/is my aim with this program, and I'm glad you find it scratches your itch! If you haven't watched before, I'd also recommend www.youtube.com/@StripPanelNaked and you might also enjoy Words, Images and Worlds: www.youtube.com/@JasonDeHart-kx7nq/videos

I'd asked Jim early-ish on, and never heard back. And now, alas... : (

yep Yep YEP