I love the little touches....such as the way the word balloons are structured to differentiate the staccato radio chat from the narrative text of the story. Toth has always been one of my favourites.
Some rhythms in this piece are due to Toth, but most I'd guess are Kurtzman's. Toth didn't letter this piece, but it's likely he indicated balloon placement and details, and probably suggested or executed via the art that narration text float.
Thanks so much for this episode Paul, do you know any more comics in which the colors are used so effectively? I just love the simplicity and impact a few colors could make if done correctly.
@@canobenitez Off the top of my head, I'm a fan of the coloring on Chris Blain's Gus and His Gang books, also those in the two Miss Don't Touch me volumes - both of these are very colorful, and French, adapted to English. Bill Watterson's colors on Calvin & Hobbes are phenomenal, especially the last 5 years of the Sunday page. Barry Windsor Smith's coloring on his own comics work is top notch, and pay close attention to his use of white. Richmond Lewis's colors on Batman: Year One are amazing. I'd also recommend Market Day by James Sturm for it's understated palette, and is one of the best graphic novels of the last 5 years. Nearly anything by Dave Stewart, but especially when working with Darwyn Cooke (New Frontier, and The Spirit). Elizabeth Breitweiser is my favorite current colorist in comics (esp those crime books with Brubaker & Phillips).
@@comixcrush mah boi! tha's some good stuff! I'm taking notes. Thanks for the effort of pointing out the specific artists and titles, I'm going to study all of them!
@@comixcrush thank you for recognizing the work of the colourists, so often forgotten. Even as far back as this Toth's comic, the colorists were very clear about how to work well with very few resources.
Just discovered this channel and I'm loving it! Thanks for your work here. I'm a late comer to Toth, but I've been taking him in a lot lately. I wonder if this story was an influence for Cooke's intro scene to Hal Jordan in New Frontier. It's got to be, right? Anyway, thanks again!
Glad you found the program, Michael. I appreciate the kind words, and am pleased you're commenting on this episode - there's another like it, in a fashion, coming shortly. And welcome aboard the Toth Train - once on, you'll never want to get off! Re: Cooke/Sabre Jet/Hal/NF - chapter 3, yeah? Hard to see how it wouldn't have been, right? :D
Maybe one of the best comics from Alex Toth (and the colour is great too!), now in 2020 it's still looks modern, isn't it wonderful?Only surpassed by "Unreal" and "The Red Fox", in my point of view, of course. Thanks for the video, good job!
I remember reading that Kurtzman had a script for this, which was essentially anti-war. But Toth disliked it intensely and was taken aback at the lack of patriotism. Like most Americans, I assume Toth was anti-communist. In fact, iirc, he was very against the dark and gritty turn in comics. He wrote that the heroic in comics, pop culture even, was being dis-privileged-- which it was and has been. The funny thing is, Kurtzman was very much pro-war during WWII. But essentially, anti-war from Korea on. Was he basically carrying water for communism? Essentially, yes, I'd argue! This may appear a harsh assessment of Kurtzman, but I believe it's true nonetheless. And a little known fact is that Kurtzman did work for the communist party newspaper, the Daily Worker! I'd say either he was a communist or a "fellow traveler."
Toth delivered something much more than comic art, this is serious visual storytelling. It's not a throwaway piece and I think Kurzman, famously obsessive and somewhat self regarding, should have deferred to the artist on a fairly trivial decision in the overall context of the story. I'm sure there were lesser artists ready and willing to follow to the word on his scripts. But it shows a lack of respect to a _very_ serious pro like Toth, to control every panel of a story. Did it really change any key aspect of the story? I don't think so. And in all honesty, mostly, its art that sells the comics. Otherwise it's not a hugely interesting incident that has been turned into a short story. Alex Toth made it much more with his visuals. I know Toth had a major bust-up with Kubert over a story that Toth changed for a war comic. The art was returned to Toth and no payment was made. Apparently the story pages were left in the boot of Toth's car, slowly disintegrating. To me, that says something about Toth's attitude. I'm not sure what, exactly, perhaps a certain pig-headedness. But on _this_ story I think he was justified and Kurzman's ego got in the way.
I think Kurtzman gave Toth crap about blacking out the figure in those panels, but ran it as Toth drew it. Toth's rep is well-known and he was usually difficult. Harvey was fine in this collab, but both had egos/disagreements, and they did only two stories together. Kubert, later, I think, was unfair and dictatorial, with the later Enemy Ace story. Neither Kubert or Adams acted well in that incident. I've heard the same about the pages in trunk, tho it could be totally or partially apocryphal. I don't view Comics as mainly visually, but a hybrid of word and picture. Harvey laid our Saber Jet, and had more than a little to do with the visuals and rhythms. With comics, we're reading word and pictures.
@comixcrush I partially agree. But you can't employ Alex Toth, volcanic and brilliant Alex Toth, and expect him to, excuse my language, be your bitch. There are some journeymen artists thst will make changes at an editor's whim, and there are artists who do it their way. And that was Alex Toth. The failure was Kurzman's to think AT would be amenable. He's followed the rhythm of the layout but made an artistic decision. And it doesn't affect the narrative. As regards the DC story, Kubert was right. Alex was given a story that had been signed off. He chose to rewrite the story and Kubert said no, here's your art back, you were given a story and your job was to tell the story. That's a whole different ball game. Toth could have sold the story elsewhere. But it wasn't the story written by an author who was paid for his work and would expect credit. Kubert was a model professional and Neal Adams was a huge advocate for creator's rights, so I'd be careful about making a judgement about their decisions or thought processes.
@@mesolithicman164 I agree with your first part. Seems, then, that Kubert should have known what he'd get in hiring Toth. It's his prerogative, of course, as editor, but it feels like a power play, to me. Probably Toth should've not accepted the job. And he turned down many, from many. But it was known that Toth altered scripts all the time. I fully understand Kubert's side of the story, and it's probably true, but I've also read accounts directly from both Kubert and Adams, who denigrated Toth's approach a bit, and were a little gleeful in redrawing the story together. Overall, I have respect for all four players here, but they were all flawed, too, and most had a very long history with each other, with many moving parts.
I love the little touches....such as the way the word balloons are structured to differentiate the staccato radio chat from the narrative text of the story. Toth has always been one of my favourites.
Some rhythms in this piece are due to Toth, but most I'd guess are Kurtzman's. Toth didn't letter this piece, but it's likely he indicated balloon placement and details, and probably suggested or executed via the art that narration text float.
Thank you for sharing this masterclass in storytelling and composition.
My pleasure. So glad you appreciate it!
You're doing a great job 👍👌
Thanks so much, I am gratified.
Thanks so much for this episode Paul, do you know any more comics in which the colors are used so effectively? I just love the simplicity and impact a few colors could make if done correctly.
I appreciate it. Are you asking if there are more Toth comics with effective color, or in general?
@@comixcrush both will be appreciated!
@@canobenitez Off the top of my head, I'm a fan of the coloring on Chris Blain's Gus and His Gang books, also those in the two Miss Don't Touch me volumes - both of these are very colorful, and French, adapted to English. Bill Watterson's colors on Calvin & Hobbes are phenomenal, especially the last 5 years of the Sunday page. Barry Windsor Smith's coloring on his own comics work is top notch, and pay close attention to his use of white. Richmond Lewis's colors on Batman: Year One are amazing. I'd also recommend Market Day by James Sturm for it's understated palette, and is one of the best graphic novels of the last 5 years. Nearly anything by Dave Stewart, but especially when working with Darwyn Cooke (New Frontier, and The Spirit). Elizabeth Breitweiser is my favorite current colorist in comics (esp those crime books with Brubaker & Phillips).
@@comixcrush mah boi! tha's some good stuff! I'm taking notes. Thanks for the effort of pointing out the specific artists and titles, I'm going to study all of them!
@@comixcrush thank you for recognizing the work of the colourists, so often forgotten. Even as far back as this Toth's comic, the colorists were very clear about how to work well with very few resources.
Crazy to think of how young they both were
Indeed. HK - 28. AT - 24.
Just discovered this channel and I'm loving it! Thanks for your work here. I'm a late comer to Toth, but I've been taking him in a lot lately.
I wonder if this story was an influence for Cooke's intro scene to Hal Jordan in New Frontier. It's got to be, right?
Anyway, thanks again!
Glad you found the program, Michael. I appreciate the kind words, and am pleased you're commenting on this episode - there's another like it, in a fashion, coming shortly. And welcome aboard the Toth Train - once on, you'll never want to get off!
Re: Cooke/Sabre Jet/Hal/NF - chapter 3, yeah? Hard to see how it wouldn't have been, right? :D
Maybe one of the best comics from Alex Toth (and the colour is great too!), now in 2020 it's still looks modern, isn't it wonderful?Only surpassed by "Unreal" and "The Red Fox", in my point of view, of course. Thanks for the video, good job!
I remember reading that Kurtzman had a script for this, which was essentially anti-war. But Toth disliked it intensely and was taken aback at the lack of patriotism. Like most Americans, I assume Toth was anti-communist.
In fact, iirc, he was very against the dark and gritty turn in comics. He wrote that the heroic in comics, pop culture even, was being dis-privileged-- which it was and has been.
The funny thing is, Kurtzman was very much pro-war during WWII. But essentially, anti-war from Korea on. Was he basically carrying water for communism? Essentially, yes, I'd argue! This may appear a harsh assessment of Kurtzman, but I believe it's true nonetheless.
And a little known fact is that Kurtzman did work for the communist party newspaper, the Daily Worker! I'd say either he was a communist or a "fellow traveler."
The 1950's called and it wants this jingoistic, simple-minded observation back.
@@KClouisville As simple-minded as this butt-hurt, snarky remark?
I've never heard that about Toth altering the script in that manner, but, maybe so. Most of Harvey's scripts for these series were anti-, but not all.
Toth delivered something much more than comic art, this is serious visual storytelling.
It's not a throwaway piece and I think Kurzman, famously obsessive and somewhat self regarding, should have deferred to the artist on a fairly trivial decision in the overall context of the story.
I'm sure there were lesser artists ready and willing to follow to the word on his scripts. But it shows a lack of respect to a _very_ serious pro like Toth, to control every panel of a story. Did it really change any key aspect of the story? I don't think so. And in all honesty, mostly, its art that sells the comics. Otherwise it's not a hugely interesting incident that has been turned into a short story. Alex Toth made it much more with his visuals.
I know Toth had a major bust-up with Kubert over a story that Toth changed for a war comic. The art was returned to Toth and no payment was made. Apparently the story pages were left in the boot of Toth's car, slowly disintegrating. To me, that says something about Toth's attitude. I'm not sure what, exactly, perhaps a certain pig-headedness.
But on _this_ story I think he was justified and Kurzman's ego got in the way.
I think Kurtzman gave Toth crap about blacking out the figure in those panels, but ran it as Toth drew it. Toth's rep is well-known and he was usually difficult. Harvey was fine in this collab, but both had egos/disagreements, and they did only two stories together. Kubert, later, I think, was unfair and dictatorial, with the later Enemy Ace story. Neither Kubert or Adams acted well in that incident. I've heard the same about the pages in trunk, tho it could be totally or partially apocryphal.
I don't view Comics as mainly visually, but a hybrid of word and picture. Harvey laid our Saber Jet, and had more than a little to do with the visuals and rhythms. With comics, we're reading word and pictures.
@comixcrush
I partially agree. But you can't employ Alex Toth, volcanic and brilliant Alex Toth, and expect him to, excuse my language, be your bitch.
There are some journeymen artists thst will make changes at an editor's whim, and there are artists who do it their way. And that was Alex Toth. The failure was Kurzman's to think AT would be amenable. He's followed the rhythm of the layout but made an artistic decision.
And it doesn't affect the narrative.
As regards the DC story, Kubert was right. Alex was given a story that had been signed off. He chose to rewrite the story and Kubert said no, here's your art back, you were given a story and your job was to tell the story. That's a whole different ball game. Toth could have sold the story elsewhere. But it wasn't the story written by an author who was paid for his work and would expect credit.
Kubert was a model professional and Neal Adams was a huge advocate for creator's rights, so I'd be careful about making a judgement about their decisions or thought processes.
@@mesolithicman164 I agree with your first part. Seems, then, that Kubert should have known what he'd get in hiring Toth. It's his prerogative, of course, as editor, but it feels like a power play, to me. Probably Toth should've not accepted the job. And he turned down many, from many. But it was known that Toth altered scripts all the time. I fully understand Kubert's side of the story, and it's probably true, but I've also read accounts directly from both Kubert and Adams, who denigrated Toth's approach a bit, and were a little gleeful in redrawing the story together. Overall, I have respect for all four players here, but they were all flawed, too, and most had a very long history with each other, with many moving parts.