Excellent video as always! I do got the Diesel and Engl (Savage) plugins from Brainworx and especially the Engl is very close to the real amp as I remember it. However, what I do like about the Diezel is how it cuts through the mix so nicely. It gots its own character like the JCM800.
I tried the ML sound version recenclty and I found out the power tube saturation IT DOES happen, not in the "output" knob, but in the "volume" kbob insted (I guess they want the output knob to be really an output control for the plugin) so in order to get the tubes crushing sound you need to crank the volume knob induvidually per channel.
I’ve been wanting a VH4 for sometime. Luckily I found a great deal on a newer VH2 today. I know they are not identical but I’m sure is will be the same flavor. Your still doing a great job on your videos!
In my opinion, the tones you can dial in from a real Amp and from a Plugin are the Gold Standard for this style of Metal. They sounded identical and magnificent. For me, watching and listening to you dial in a tone is like watching Tommy Emmanuel play acoustic guitar. In both cases, I find myself shaking my head and laughing out loud at the level of mastery, virtuosity, skill, and creativity. It is a privilege to learn from you both. Thanks 🙏😎👌
I couldn't tell a difference in the mix at all. Great video! How do these plug in's feel in the hands? Do they react to pick attack like a real amp? Never used one so I'm just curious. Have a great day brother! 🤘🤘
Thanks! There’s always a tiny amount of latency involved ’cos it’s a computer program so it needs to process the signal. So it’s never the same feelwise than playing with a real amp. Soundwise they’re pretty much the same. You too man!
Awesome comparison as always! I like real amps, but nothing beats plugins and space constraints and cost, etc. I like both the CB4 and VH4 plugin. Kinda surprised they didn't deal with power amp sag/overdrive though. That's like why we buy tube ampp, at least partially. Haha. I know plenty of plugins do handle master vol character accurately. Hmmm. Ah well. In the mix, it's basically identical. If things are dialed in right with any modern sim, probably nobody will care it's a sim. Great jamming too btw. :)
Actually there is a knob that acts like a master knob in Amped CB4... it the volume knob ... sadly Euge only tweaked the output knob( which only adds volume) , instead of volume knob ( which acts like master knob and adds so much character like the tube amp)
I think it still sounds pretty close while not exactly. But either way highly useable. It's a solid guitar amp tone if you take it how it is. With the right effects and IR's it could be great.
I use BX guitar amps a lot and the master really adds saturation, the thing is you need to have the channel volume cranked up as well to hit the saturation threshold
Euge, I have the Brainworx and it's a killer plugin. Could you tell me the 81 height? On ly LP Custom I'm struggling a little bit to make it sounds tight on the bass, on my M 1 it sounds really good. Thanks a lot
After the OD, to get rid of the hiss, before the amp 👌. I have less gain than people usually think so my amps are pretty much dead quiet so no need for me to put anything in the loop.
Hey mate, I like what you do, bravo. So I think the BASSFORD plugin does the "thing" with the volume BUT not the Output...try to crank the Volume in the channel 2 under the Gain. I think it does the trick you're asking!!!it adds this "tube type" fullness!! Try and tell me if you want!!
Use the volume knob instead of output knob on amped CB4 , it works exactly like a master knob .. output only adds volume , volume knob acts like a master knob
@@EugeValovirta230V Hehe, my personal preference is for Brainworx plugin, actually because it is brighter but it is just because I prefer a little brighter tones. By the way Euge, you should check some Soldano SLO100. If someone could borrow it to you that would be great and compare it with some great plugins out there, just as a suggestions could be with NeuralDSP, STLTones and Nembrini. LIkely are the best emulations of it, but I want to know your honest opinion :D
I think they’re both really good but the ML Sound Lab was soundwise a bit more like that real amp I had on the video. Feel wise the plugins were pretty much the same.
Using the same settings on the Brainworx I get a muddy and barely crunchy tone, nothing like the bright high gain tone you get. Increasing the input gain just makes it fart and fuzz out. Does my DI suck so bad?
The player, the pick, the strings, the guitar, the pickups, cables etc. affect the tone quite a bit and especially the player’s hands and that’s why two players hardly sound alike but obviously audio interface (and it’s AD / DA converters) affect the sound too. There’s a reason one hardly sees a cheap interface / converters in professional studios (I don’t mean that you have one ’cos I have no idea what you have 😁). My Steinberg UR816C and it’s converters are really good but I’m actually updating it to Steinberg’s AXR series interface which a high quality professional device ’cos I feel there’s still a room for improvement on that department 😎.
Yes. That’s one of the main reasons ’cos computer obviously needs to ”react & process” like it’s programmed and real analog gear just reacts 😎. Even on basically zero latency it still isn’t the same than playing with a real amp.
Basically all plug-ins and digital stuff sounds and feels ok nowadays. The only thing is: when you start tracking multiple guitars only tubes give you the real separation and grain that's needed in the mix.
I use the cab pretty much only when giving guitar lessons or just noodling by myself. For recording (YT videos also) I use either St.Rock or Suhr Reactive Loads with Jens Bogren’s IRs. I’m pretty sure I went trough the signal in the video ’cos that’s what I always do so people would get the information 😎.
@@EugeValovirta230V Yea I heard everything else besides the cab. I have been considering the Suhr Reactive Load, but watched your St Rock vs OX Box video, unfortunately St Rock is out of stock atm. Might need to get one after hearing your rig. Thanks Euge 💪🤘
The real amp it's amazing and the PA VH4 it's too close to it. The CB4 sounds too compressed like if its pre processed or its a generic distortion with a post filter btw great comparison
Interesting. I also tried both plugins. I personally had better results with the brainworx variant. On the CB4 I had trouble with the levels. What always kinda bothers me with plugins like these is, when they add controls that aren't there on the actual amp. Sure, you probably need some special tweakage for the digital world, but then please set it to a "sane" default value and add some help what the controls do/add/subtract. Otherwise, you'll find yourself having to fiddling around with controls you have no idea what they're doing.
Totally understand that "Just saturated" sound... it's like tubes sing once you get their sweet spot dialed in. Great playing too! You've got me wondering if I even need my 1960b cabinet(in reference to your reactive load), I've already sold the top cabinet as it didn't seem to really add anything.
Cool! Thanks man! I haven’t recorded with my cabinet in a long time. I basically use it when I’m noodling by myself and occasionally want to really move some air 😎💪.
@@EugeValovirta230VQuite welcome indeed! So since you're not recording the cabinet often, what would you recommend for the jcm 800 2203x, would you run a recording through the FX loop, or would you run it through a reactive load? (Any recommendations on reactive rack?) I'm still learning how to record what I'm actually hearing (translating tube audio is hard 😆🤘) Thank you again for your time and responding! looking forward to hearing some more great --tubes-- tunes 🤘😎
I use St. Rock React:IR. It’s great and it also has a cab attenuator so I have my cab also connected to it and can ”open” it up whenever I want. The Suhr Reactive Load is also great but has a bit less features than the St.Rock (no cab attenuator for example). Here’s a few videos about them if you’re interested: ruclips.net/video/7sFIkI7_DK4/видео.html ruclips.net/video/hRTUat3kEsI/видео.html ruclips.net/video/zEasSPvcRSA/видео.html
The real tube amp always has a bit of extra oomph to it. Somehow it sticks out better. That said, the Brainworx Diezel plugins are very close to the real thing.
These comparison clips don't ever tell the whole picture. Sonically in a mix you won't hear much difference between them but from a FEEL perspective, you cannot demo that in video and that's a huge part that viewers can't experience or don't realize. This comment applies to all clips like these and comment is not targeted at your channel or content.
That’s why I highlighted in the video that these plugins don’t have the feel of a tube amp and all that glorifying goodiness including the master volume behaviour 😎👌.
They were both pretty good but I was a bit disappointed that the master volume was just a volume and not like on a real amp where it’s definitely not just a volume.
There would be no sound since a cab / speakers needs quite a lot of power to work so you’d need an amp to get that power 😎. That’s why I used the IR (which is a capture of a Mesa cab w/ V30s mic’d with 3 different mics into high quality mic preamp) to be able to basically do what you described here 👌😊.
@@EugeValovirta230V I agree with you. However, if you use a power amp and record room audio, real acoustics are always better (considering you have a nice room).
I have Softube’s Tsar reverb mixed in just a bit for room sound for these videos which sounds awesome. And I actually used it on my latest solo album on drums & just a tiny bit on rhythm guitars 👌😎. It’s basically the same than with good IRs; sounds the same, or even better, and is a lot easier and faster and I can focuse the main thing: music 🎼🎸. And power amps add their spice on the soup as well especially the way I use them; cranked 😎.
Awesome video! We did quite a few shootouts of the PA VH4 and it super close to Jens' amp. Lovely beast, this amp.
Thanks! 👌💪
The new Ml Soundlab pluggins (CB4 and Flagship) are just incredible! Great video as always!
Thanks!
I was looking for a video like this !!!
you nailed it, congratulations!!!
Glad you liked it!
Great video! Killer tone! Learning a lot from ya man! Thanks!!
Glad to hear that! Thanks man!
Love all the videos. Lots of work and great information, can’t say anything bad
Oh thanks man! Really glad to hear this 🙏☺️.
Thanks man!! Love your vids. You are the coolest dude on RUclips.
Oh thanks man! Really glad to hear this! 🙏☺️
Excellent video as always! I do got the Diesel and Engl (Savage) plugins from Brainworx and especially the Engl is very close to the real amp as I remember it. However, what I do like about the Diezel is how it cuts through the mix so nicely. It gots its own character like the JCM800.
Thanks! Yeah it’s a German 800 😎💪.
Thanks for checking out the CB4, great comparison video 🤘🏼🤘🏼
Thanks man! Was a pleasure! 👌
I love that you use Channel 2. It’s often overlooked.
Yeah I like how it reacts to my playing. I find the other two od channels way too compressed.
yo man this plugin is the shit ! And yeah I am stuck on channel 2 hehe
I tried the ML sound version recenclty and I found out the power tube saturation IT DOES happen, not in the "output" knob, but in the "volume" kbob insted (I guess they want the output knob to be really an output control for the plugin) so in order to get the tubes crushing sound you need to crank the volume knob induvidually per channel.
Thanks man, learned alot here, you rock.
Glad to hear it!
I’ve been wanting a VH4 for sometime. Luckily I found a great deal on a newer VH2 today. I know they are not identical but I’m sure is will be the same flavor. Your still doing a great job on your videos!
Cool!
Thanks man!
Such an incredible amp, it would be a holy grail pickup for me.
Diezel is truly awesome! One of the best heavy tone other then JCM 800.
😎💪
Nice one again! You planning on making a video of the console 1 & fader?
Thanks! Yes 😎👌.
Hi man, great comparison, tried the brainworx diezel and in the FX rack section you can play a little with the tube saturation I think.
Thanks! I played a bit with it didn’t really ”speak” to me 😎.
Great bro!!!!
Thanks C!
You are wellcome E!!!!
nice job!
Thanks!
In my opinion, the tones you can dial in from a real Amp and from a Plugin are the Gold Standard for this style of Metal. They sounded identical and magnificent. For me, watching and listening to you dial in a tone is like watching Tommy Emmanuel play acoustic guitar. In both cases, I find myself shaking my head and laughing out loud at the level of mastery, virtuosity, skill, and creativity. It is a privilege to learn from you both. Thanks 🙏😎👌
Oh thanks for your kind words 🙏. Really glad to hear this!
The Diezel is quite an awesome amp
I couldn't tell a difference in the mix at all. Great video! How do these plug in's feel in the hands? Do they react to pick attack like a real amp? Never used one so I'm just curious. Have a great day brother! 🤘🤘
Thanks! There’s always a tiny amount of latency involved ’cos it’s a computer program so it needs to process the signal. So it’s never the same feelwise than playing with a real amp. Soundwise they’re pretty much the same. You too man!
Awesome comparison as always! I like real amps, but nothing beats plugins and space constraints and cost, etc. I like both the CB4 and VH4 plugin. Kinda surprised they didn't deal with power amp sag/overdrive though. That's like why we buy tube ampp, at least partially. Haha. I know plenty of plugins do handle master vol character accurately. Hmmm. Ah well.
In the mix, it's basically identical. If things are dialed in right with any modern sim, probably nobody will care it's a sim. Great jamming too btw. :)
Thanks! 😎
Actually there is a knob that acts like a master knob in Amped CB4... it the volume knob ... sadly Euge only tweaked the output knob( which only adds volume) , instead of volume knob ( which acts like master knob and adds so much character like the tube amp)
I think it still sounds pretty close while not exactly. But either way highly useable. It's a solid guitar amp tone if you take it how it is. With the right effects and IR's it could be great.
👌😎
I use BX guitar amps a lot and the master really adds saturation, the thing is you need to have the channel volume cranked up as well to hit the saturation threshold
🤟
Euge, I have the Brainworx and it's a killer plugin. Could you tell me the 81 height? On ly LP Custom I'm struggling a little bit to make it sounds tight on the bass, on my M 1 it sounds really good. Thanks a lot
Cool!
I have no idea. It differs from guitar to guitar; wherever is the sweet spot and I adjust it by ear & feel.
Hey Euge! Where in your signal chain are you putting the Decimator? In front of the amp or in the effects loop?
After the OD, to get rid of the hiss, before the amp 👌. I have less gain than people usually think so my amps are pretty much dead quiet so no need for me to put anything in the loop.
In my opinion there is a little bit more bite in a left ear and noticable "hum" in a background in right
Hey mate, I like what you do, bravo. So I think the BASSFORD plugin does the "thing" with the volume BUT not the Output...try to crank the Volume in the channel 2 under the Gain. I think it does the trick you're asking!!!it adds this "tube type" fullness!! Try and tell me if you want!!
Glad to hear! 🙏
It does it quite well but there’s a reason why I use real amps 💪😎.
@@EugeValovirta230V Amps are still better but plugins are coming year by year a step closer. Thanks mate
They are indeed 😎
Use the volume knob instead of output knob on amped CB4 , it works exactly like a master knob .. output only adds volume , volume knob acts like a master knob
Yeah: he should have tried the volume knob:that's where the real tone is:shame he didnt even mess with it
@@drumsnbassonly5452 Exactly .. should have tried tweaking the volume knob... CB4 is my personal fav plugin because it handles it so well
Hey Euge, and which one would you choose from both plugins? I just want to know your opinion as a personal preference. Thanks!
Oh that’s a hard one but probably the ML Sound Lab. Can’t really explain any more detailedly but I just got a bit better vibes from that initially 😎.
@@EugeValovirta230V Hehe, my personal preference is for Brainworx plugin, actually because it is brighter but it is just because I prefer a little brighter tones. By the way Euge, you should check some Soldano SLO100. If someone could borrow it to you that would be great and compare it with some great plugins out there, just as a suggestions could be with NeuralDSP, STLTones and Nembrini. LIkely are the best emulations of it, but I want to know your honest opinion :D
Brainworx Diezel rocks!!!
Hey Euge! what tunning did you used in this video?
Hey man! Standard C.
What of these 2 plugins more alike to the real deal in terms of the feeling? If you had to choose only one what would you choose?
I think they’re both really good but the ML Sound Lab was soundwise a bit more like that real amp I had on the video. Feel wise the plugins were pretty much the same.
I am trying to decided between Diezel VH4 and Herbert. Which is best for metal?
I haven’t tried out the Herbert but I guess it’s just a matter of personal preferences 🤟.
Using the same settings on the Brainworx I get a muddy and barely crunchy tone, nothing like the bright high gain tone you get. Increasing the input gain just makes it fart and fuzz out.
Does my DI suck so bad?
The player, the pick, the strings, the guitar, the pickups, cables etc. affect the tone quite a bit and especially the player’s hands and that’s why two players hardly sound alike but obviously audio interface (and it’s AD / DA converters) affect the sound too.
There’s a reason one hardly sees a cheap interface / converters in professional studios (I don’t mean that you have one ’cos I have no idea what you have 😁). My Steinberg UR816C and it’s converters are really good but I’m actually updating it to Steinberg’s AXR series interface which a high quality professional device ’cos I feel there’s still a room for improvement on that department 😎.
Can this difference of feel be caused by latency of computer and plugins? I feel latency more than 3ms as weak attack.
Yes. That’s one of the main reasons ’cos computer obviously needs to ”react & process” like it’s programmed and real analog gear just reacts 😎. Even on basically zero latency it still isn’t the same than playing with a real amp.
@@EugeValovirta230V thats why i got an RME interface, probly the lowest latency while monitoring amp sims. Twice as fast as my others
Basically all plug-ins and digital stuff sounds and feels ok nowadays. The only thing is: when you start tracking multiple guitars only tubes give you the real separation and grain that's needed in the mix.
I agree 👌. Especially on rhythm guitars.
@@EugeValovirta230V absolutely.
What speakers are you using in your cab? Is it Front Loaded or Rear Loaded?
Eminence P50Es. It’s a front loaded Fryette FatBottom 👌.
@@EugeValovirta230V It sounds better with your cab than my Orange rear loaded 2X12, too boomy. I might need to get a new cab.
I use the cab pretty much only when giving guitar lessons or just noodling by myself. For recording (YT videos also) I use either St.Rock or Suhr Reactive Loads with Jens Bogren’s IRs. I’m pretty sure I went trough the signal in the video ’cos that’s what I always do so people would get the information 😎.
@@EugeValovirta230V Yea I heard everything else besides the cab. I have been considering the Suhr Reactive Load, but watched your St Rock vs OX Box video, unfortunately St Rock is out of stock atm. Might need to get one after hearing your rig. Thanks Euge 💪🤘
Great job, are you also planning to test soldano slo 30?
Thanks! If I get my hands on one someday then definitely 👌.
The real amp it's amazing and the PA VH4 it's too close to it.
The CB4 sounds too compressed like if its pre processed or its a generic distortion with a post filter btw great comparison
🙏😎👌
Proving once again that selling my VH4 was a massive fuckup that I have to correct.
🤟😎
Interesting. I also tried both plugins. I personally had better results with the brainworx variant. On the CB4 I had trouble with the levels. What always kinda bothers me with plugins like these is, when they add controls that aren't there on the actual amp. Sure, you probably need some special tweakage for the digital world, but then please set it to a "sane" default value and add some help what the controls do/add/subtract. Otherwise, you'll find yourself having to fiddling around with controls you have no idea what they're doing.
Exactly👌😎.
What drums are you using ?
Toontrack’s Superior Drummer 3. This one was my custom preset I mixed myself.
Totally understand that "Just saturated" sound... it's like tubes sing once you get their sweet spot dialed in. Great playing too!
You've got me wondering if I even need my 1960b cabinet(in reference to your reactive load), I've already sold the top cabinet as it didn't seem to really add anything.
Cool! Thanks man!
I haven’t recorded with my cabinet in a long time. I basically use it when I’m noodling by myself and occasionally want to really move some air 😎💪.
@@EugeValovirta230VQuite welcome indeed!
So since you're not recording the cabinet often, what would you recommend for the jcm 800 2203x, would you run a recording through the FX loop, or would you run it through a reactive load? (Any recommendations on reactive rack?)
I'm still learning how to record what I'm actually hearing (translating tube audio is hard 😆🤘)
Thank you again for your time and responding! looking forward to hearing some more great --tubes-- tunes 🤘😎
I use St. Rock React:IR. It’s great and it also has a cab attenuator so I have my cab also connected to it and can ”open” it up whenever I want. The Suhr Reactive Load is also great but has a bit less features than the St.Rock (no cab attenuator for example).
Here’s a few videos about them if you’re interested:
ruclips.net/video/7sFIkI7_DK4/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/hRTUat3kEsI/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/zEasSPvcRSA/видео.html
@@EugeValovirta230V right on! I really appreciate the links, I'm checking them out now😎🤘
The real tube amp always has a bit of extra oomph to it. Somehow it sticks out better. That said, the Brainworx Diezel plugins are very close to the real thing.
Indeed 💪.
Have u tried marshall vintage modern amp ? ? 😄
I’ve played with one a few times live and liked it a lot 👌.
I wan to take guitar lessons from you period! ha ha. That's the truth
I give lessons via Skype every now & then so please send me an email and let’s see what happens 😎. evalovirta@gmail.com
These comparison clips don't ever tell the whole picture. Sonically in a mix you won't hear much difference between them but from a FEEL perspective, you cannot demo that in video and that's a huge part that viewers can't experience or don't realize. This comment applies to all clips like these and comment is not targeted at your channel or content.
That’s why I highlighted in the video that these plugins don’t have the feel of a tube amp and all that glorifying goodiness including the master volume behaviour 😎👌.
I have Baseford. Its the best Amp sim for Hi G
They were both pretty good but I was a bit disappointed that the master volume was just a volume and not like on a real amp where it’s definitely not just a volume.
very cool! But the real amp is the real amp 😅
Exactly 👌.
always prefer the real amp
👌💪
I guarantee if someone setup the plugin through a cab and mic’d it in a nice room, you will NEVER hear the difference in a mix.
There would be no sound since a cab / speakers needs quite a lot of power to work so you’d need an amp to get that power 😎. That’s why I used the IR (which is a capture of a Mesa cab w/ V30s mic’d with 3 different mics into high quality mic preamp) to be able to basically do what you described here 👌😊.
@@EugeValovirta230V I agree with you. However, if you use a power amp and record room audio, real acoustics are always better (considering you have a nice room).
I have Softube’s Tsar reverb mixed in just a bit for room sound for these videos which sounds awesome. And I actually used it on my latest solo album on drums & just a tiny bit on rhythm guitars 👌😎. It’s basically the same than with good IRs; sounds the same, or even better, and is a lot easier and faster and I can focuse the main thing: music 🎼🎸.
And power amps add their spice on the soup as well especially the way I use them; cranked 😎.
you compared the wrong channel. nobody cares about ch2. vh4 is famous for ch3
All the channels of this amp are amazing. But yeah, the 3 is the most famous.