It is misleading to be honest. Please look into it. He has grossly underrepresented many peer reviewed papers and interpretations. ruclips.net/video/vH_eFmLSMb4/видео.html
Catch 22 situation for Hindu fanatics. If they believe they are Aryans then they are not native Indians, and if they believe they are native then they are not Aryans. To be very honest the 65% theory is more plausible as majority of Indians look like Aboriginal people from Australia or Africa. To my understanding the 65% theory of mostly female original inhabitants machmaking with migrants from Central and west Asia makes more sense. But this gives headache to Hindu fanatics who believe they are the original and pure inhabitants of India, which they are not.
I guess catch 22 is for Muslims too of the subcontinent - were they once Hindus or migrated from middle east? If Hindus then their fight for Islam is questionable, if from middle East then this is not their land to fight for.. Isn't
Fascinating topic. Would like to appreciate more of these book review with the author. May be with Romola Thaper, Arundhati Roy, Sumit Sarkar, Partho Chatterjee etc.
Early Indians by Tony Joseph explains in a simple manner the complexity of who are Indians. It summarizes the phenomena quite well. This does not mean that the book dos not have certain flaws. It has at least two flaws which were exposed by further research. Flaw No. 1 - The second wave of migration from Iran was Iranian agriculturists and hence agriculture came to Harappa/ India from Iran. This has been disproven by the DNA analysis of the Rakhigarhi skeleton dated 2500 BC which shows that the Harappan people did not have Iranian farmer DNA, rather they had Iranian DNA which preceded Iranian farmers as well as Iranian hunter gatherers. For some reason Tony Joseph seems keen to suggest that Indian agriculture has Iranian roots. Caution: The new study is based on one skeleton and for the study findings to be taken seriously, the number needs to go up to 100 or more. Flaw No. 2 - Tony Joseph needlessly gets into the Saraswati debate and even distorts that debate.. The question around Saraswati is whether it existed as a real river and if yes, which river is/was it. Instead TJ links Saraswati and the Aryan migration. He says that some people are trying to prove that Harappa and Vedic is the same by bringing up Saraswati. I don't think that is the real question. Given the emotional and political nature of the Vedic concept, most 'experts' align themselves to one or the other side of the debate. TJ is guilty of the same. Whereas his effort to summarize is good, his inclination to take sides is not. Hopefully he will come up with a post script based on new research. In general I recommend the book but advise readers to be cautious in believing everything that the book says.
I have been reading the research paper in cell and the science… pretty much goes against Hindi, hindutva, Tamil, Dravidian debates. Again migration of population and language might not be sometimes hand in hand. But liked you comment. 😊
While i agree with the calling out of supremacists of Hindutva or white nationalist I see lack of calling out "Mulnivasi nationalist", why is that ? Or does that term not entail any kind of supremacy ?
@ABHISHEK RAJU Care to point the conspiracy theory in my posts ? Have i challenged or questioned the theory but i did questioned the earlier political usage of the theory aka Mulnivasi politics.
@ABHISHEK RAJU Go check the political trajectory of various communities in modern India, Identity formation & so on. If you don't know about Mulnivasi politics then search about it. Regarding genetics - Here are Brahmin results {They show hightened presence of 'Aryan' Genes but mixed regionally with varying levels of other genes} brownpundits.com/2019/11/09/brahmins-do-not-descend-from-a-common-group/ www.brownpundits.com/2020/05/02/brahmins-were-made-in-india-not-the-steppe/ Now don't ask me how to read genetic data.
@ABHISHEK RAJU I am talking about politicization & political usage about date & historical inferences it provides. Learn to see the difference between data & interpretation and how interpretation gets used politically.
@ABHISHEK RAJU So where i am disagreeing with current academic view but i do have an axe to grind with people who have used Scientific historical research for certain kind of identity politics since modern India's formation.
The two conflicting theories are Aryan migration theroy and out of India theory...but what's lacking is neither of the theories could prove to be correct by all the aspects of sciences....and what's more important is that neither theory could dissprove it's counter theory completely...there's some speculation and assumptions...some will support this some will support that for their own interests...so what I feel is that...Sanskrit and Vedic culture didn't come from central asian steppes...it is simply a continuum of the Indus valley civilization....what really happened was these central asian yamnaya pastoralists might have migrated or raided north India...but soon they started settling here and mingling with the local population bringing their genetics into India...but at the same time they adopted the Vedic culture and Sanskrit language as their culture might have been interior to Indus valley civilisation culture which consequently evolved into Vedic culture...ofcourse there might have been ocassional migration out of India as well which is not significant....
If and only if the Pre-Yanmaya European languages survived. God knows what they were. Racially they are quite close, if not closest to the Semites, a race killed in Holocaust. How come Semitic and Celtic languages are so similar?
These mistakes happen when a leftist journalist pretend to be an expect on genetics, history and archaeology XD its like he was taught a few things and he keeps repeating the same thing over and over again XD
Oh no... This is the fact based scholarly work: Indian Civilisation: The Untold Story - Revisited | Raj Vedam | Aryan Invasion/Migration Theory ::ruclips.net/video/1bsyi4zYHP0/видео.html
Do these two Bluffmasters have any answer on discovery of stone weapons in Pune which are atleast 100000 to 200000 years old. Either you do research or refer some scientists. Don't push your assumptions.
Human beings are there on earth from 2 million years. He is talking about modern humans. I think I read a theory that there was a period when all of the human populations on the earth got extinct except for the group in Africa, from which the current human population arose
There is no genetic basis of aryan dravidian caste divide. The so called aryan r1a1 is found in the highest concentration in Toda tribes in Nilligri hills who are purely Dravidian in language in culture and next highest in Manipuri people who are sino-tibetian, both having more than that in punjabis. I wonder why tony forgot to talk about these things XD perhaps some political agenda ?
It's possible to be ancestrally one thing and culturally another. If an "aryan" man married a "dravidian" woman, he might have lots of children but growing up in her community, they wouldn't necessarily speak his language. It's the same with migrants breeding with native populations everywhere. Inbreeding would then share and keep within the tribe the genes throughout later generations.
Oh man so many mistakes ! First, Mr. Tony Joseph is not an archeologist, but just a journalist. There are two kind of journalist, One, who search and uncover unknown things with open mind, Second, who first decide what they want, and uncover it with closed mind. Mr Tony talks about these migration as if he was running an international travel agency. After few 100 years it will be difficult to prove if Whites/Caucasians came to London or Indians (from India) and who displaced who? He is nothing more than a parrot, regurgitating what his Christian-overlord have preached him. He said Indian history is proven wrong by Archeological findings, care to point at some Indian archeological document or Paper. Now, pls. don’t tell me Indian Archeological are incompetent. The other person, very impatient, ignorant of tenets of being a host, wants to prove he read something up about it, and knows more than the other. :D Listening to these folks makes me feel like two bling men who have no idea of what T-Rex is, are dueling it out as to who knows it better. How T-Rex pooped all red and then ate it. Kind of makes me feel these guys are communist mindset. Just a hunch. Also the concept of Hybrid (gene poop), that is called Half-knowledge Idiots. Whenever a foreign or outside person comes in contact with a remote-isolated group (who were alive all this time without any interference or “Hybridization”, example adivasis in Andaman) there is a high chance the outside brings in disease that local population is not immune to, and hence usually they die. With Genetic, it has not been proven, which direction it goes (in short span). Just because somethings are similar does not mean one came from another. It could be two branch like of ‘Y’. One could argue, Humans share 99% DNA with Chimps, does that mean humans become Chimp ? About religious mind set, I definitely feel they are racist in religious sense. Like the host mentioning “Hindus” and not certain people who oppose, and later Tony himself saying “Swayam Bhu” ..as far as I understand that word denotes Hindu God ‘Shiva’ and Not “Hindus”-following-race. Also the argument he talks about, is twisted. British implied that, “Indians are nothing but downgraded race after mixing with Dravidians, the originals/pure were Aryans (now the British). So, it would be wrong to call the new arrival British as outsiders”.
@@jothis9991 :) A half filled Glass is both Half full and Half Empty. Like the Rakhigarhi DNA, Indian archeological paper, said Nothing!!.. Just what they found, and info on it. People selectively took what they want and construct with their biased-glue. Hho cares, how much of my DNA is same as yours, just as long as you are Indian.
This is the nation of Hindus Christians and other religion people should not talk what kind of intelligence they have just keep mum what kind of democracy what all are damages can be done in people's mind is visible here not only here it's all over the world we live in this earth some years only every one hate everyone by religion caste status and countrywise divided we came empty hand we will go empty hand whoever it is better don't colour our mind and heart with someone's words to hate someone . And Moreover I am a proud Indian as well as a proud Christian and I don't hate anybody my God shown us to Love everyone. Jesus Loves everyone.
@@anilvarghese7362 Da Anil-e (assuming you are below 40yrs of age), That damage is what I am talking about. Try to think from others point of view. See, how vote bank politics has shaped this nation. People accuse Hindus of being aggressive and intolerant ..but fail to see for 1000s of years no religion were stopped ..right in your neighborhood 'Yahudiis' were given place to stay and protected. People from Iran were given place, but when we (hindus) are targeted ..what do you expect us to do ? Do you know there are many criminal cases going on where Hindus were hurt or killed because they are Hindus (In India ?) ..No media talks about it. These are not isolated incidents. Tell me a nations where majority people have suffered at the hands of minority and they kept quite ? I too am proud ..and proud that we have tolerated, given respect to and live with people who do not share our beliefs. Because at the end of the day ..there can not be separate God for each one of us. ..about the talker of this video: Pls. search about 'Sinauli' archeology discovery and 'Babhaniyav' near Varanasi.
Population genetics was done by Reich in Harvard through ancient genetics he quoted his work. And whole world accept the fact of indo european migration from central Asia ,, other than india
@@nissar_fasil 'And whole world accept the fact of indo european migration from central Asia ,, other than india' Well there's a reason why others cannot but India can
@@hrivaansahani1750 Yes because they have a tendency to accept the fact by analysing proper evidence with the help of science but we analysis every thing with the help of religion. Simple
@@hrivaansahani1750 Just refer the paper he mention that's the paper impact the history of world. Facts and history doesn't give any pride to us. We must see this in Academic perspective
One of best books I have ever read in life....Great work by Tony Joseph.
This book is for curious mind not for the theologian mind.
Mr. Purkayashta would do well to withhold his comments at times when the guest is explaining a key concept.
Agree:
It's very much an Indian problem: Interviewers are to talkative and confuse interview with discussion.
Have started reading the book. It is fascinating!
Read the book ,.
A new way to explain our ancient.
It is misleading to be honest. Please look into it. He has grossly underrepresented many peer reviewed papers and interpretations. ruclips.net/video/vH_eFmLSMb4/видео.html
Catch 22 situation for Hindu fanatics. If they believe they are Aryans then they are not native Indians, and if they believe they are native then they are not Aryans. To be very honest the 65% theory is more plausible as majority of Indians look like Aboriginal people from Australia or Africa. To my understanding the 65% theory of mostly female original inhabitants machmaking with migrants from Central and west Asia makes more sense. But this gives headache to Hindu fanatics who believe they are the original and pure inhabitants of India, which they are not.
Right bro this is nice catch another catch for buslim
Muhammad was paedophile and raped nine year old ayesha he was rapist
I guess catch 22 is for Muslims too of the subcontinent - were they once Hindus or migrated from middle east? If Hindus then their fight for Islam is questionable, if from middle East then this is not their land to fight for.. Isn't
@@dm210480 dumbfuk argument...confused hindu Nationalists..hahaha
stfu mosslem are not also true indians. Y'all mosslem didn't even exist in 10th century
@@dm210480 hindus came n established them over the locals but later Muslims came established themselves.
I’d love to add this book to my digital library. Please, bring this book in an Audiobook form and make it available for purchase on Amazon.
Fascinating topic. Would like to appreciate more of these book review with the author. May be with Romola Thaper, Arundhati Roy, Sumit Sarkar, Partho Chatterjee etc.
Love this book from Arunachal Pradesh
Early Indians by Tony Joseph explains in a simple manner the complexity of who are Indians. It summarizes the phenomena quite well. This does not mean that the book dos not have certain flaws. It has at least two flaws which were exposed by further research.
Flaw No. 1 - The second wave of migration from Iran was Iranian agriculturists and hence agriculture came to Harappa/ India from Iran. This has been disproven by the DNA analysis of the Rakhigarhi skeleton dated 2500 BC which shows that the Harappan people did not have Iranian farmer DNA, rather they had Iranian DNA which preceded Iranian farmers as well as Iranian hunter gatherers. For some reason Tony Joseph seems keen to suggest that Indian agriculture has Iranian roots. Caution: The new study is based on one skeleton and for the study findings to be taken seriously, the number needs to go up to 100 or more.
Flaw No. 2 - Tony Joseph needlessly gets into the Saraswati debate and even distorts that debate.. The question around Saraswati is whether it existed as a real river and if yes, which river is/was it. Instead TJ links Saraswati and the Aryan migration. He says that some people are trying to prove that Harappa and Vedic is the same by bringing up Saraswati. I don't think that is the real question.
Given the emotional and political nature of the Vedic concept, most 'experts' align themselves to one or the other side of the debate. TJ is guilty of the same. Whereas his effort to summarize is good, his inclination to take sides is not. Hopefully he will come up with a post script based on new research.
In general I recommend the book but advise readers to be cautious in believing everything that the book says.
I have been reading the research paper in cell and the science… pretty much goes against Hindi, hindutva, Tamil, Dravidian debates.
Again migration of population and language might not be sometimes hand in hand.
But liked you comment. 😊
The host is not letting the author of the book explain key concepts..
Coz he cannot, he is just a left leaning journalist XD
Very helpful. Thank you
While i agree with the calling out of supremacists of Hindutva or white nationalist I see lack of calling out "Mulnivasi nationalist", why is that ? Or does that term not entail any kind of supremacy ?
@Varoon I do but not sure if followers of a certain political ideology can.
@ABHISHEK RAJU Care to point the conspiracy theory in my posts ?
Have i challenged or questioned the theory but i did questioned the earlier political usage of the theory aka Mulnivasi politics.
@ABHISHEK RAJU Go check the political trajectory of various communities in modern India, Identity formation & so on. If you don't know about Mulnivasi politics then search about it.
Regarding genetics -
Here are Brahmin results {They show hightened presence of 'Aryan' Genes but mixed regionally with varying levels of other genes}
brownpundits.com/2019/11/09/brahmins-do-not-descend-from-a-common-group/
www.brownpundits.com/2020/05/02/brahmins-were-made-in-india-not-the-steppe/
Now don't ask me how to read genetic data.
@ABHISHEK RAJU I am talking about politicization & political usage about date & historical inferences it provides. Learn to see the difference between data & interpretation and how interpretation gets used politically.
@ABHISHEK RAJU So where i am disagreeing with current academic view but i do have an axe to grind with people who have used Scientific historical research for certain kind of identity politics since modern India's formation.
The two conflicting theories are Aryan migration theroy and out of India theory...but what's lacking is neither of the theories could prove to be correct by all the aspects of sciences....and what's more important is that neither theory could dissprove it's counter theory completely...there's some speculation and assumptions...some will support this some will support that for their own interests...so what I feel is that...Sanskrit and Vedic culture didn't come from central asian steppes...it is simply a continuum of the Indus valley civilization....what really happened was these central asian yamnaya pastoralists might have migrated or raided north India...but soon they started settling here and mingling with the local population bringing their genetics into India...but at the same time they adopted the Vedic culture and Sanskrit language as their culture might have been interior to Indus valley civilisation culture which consequently evolved into Vedic culture...ofcourse there might have been ocassional migration out of India as well which is not significant....
Thanks for choosing novel topic
great book sir
Exactly!
If and only if the Pre-Yanmaya European languages survived.
God knows what they were.
Racially they are quite close, if not closest to the Semites, a race killed in Holocaust.
How come Semitic and Celtic languages are so similar?
Latest video of Shri Shrikant Talageri on Out of India Theory: ruclips.net/video/DKEpERD_U4I/видео.html [Aug, 2022]
Illumminating book. Read it during lockdown in 2020. Highly recommend.
TAMIL's migration.....we know you will never speak.....the American Indian's, Australian aboriginal..... Both have hunter and agricultural people's...
Epdi indo European languages(Sanskrit) veliya irunthu vanthatho athe mathiri tha Dravidian language(tamil) yum veliya irunthu vanthu..
Tamils itha purinjika evalo naal agumo theriyala
Changees Khan is not a Muslim
He was a Buddhist.
Not a Buddhist but a pagan.. Mongols worshiped their ancestors...
He was aadivaasi of mangol.....who addepted muslim religion
@@haretilalmeena990 He did not...Why can't people google it themselves...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genghis_Khan#Religion
These mistakes happen when a leftist journalist pretend to be an expect on genetics, history and archaeology XD its like he was taught a few things and he keeps repeating the same thing over and over again XD
Ok Babi
😂😂😂😂😂 ohhh twins ...
Oh no... This is the fact based scholarly work: Indian Civilisation: The Untold Story - Revisited | Raj Vedam | Aryan Invasion/Migration Theory ::ruclips.net/video/1bsyi4zYHP0/видео.html
Please upload in hindi conversation
Buy Hindi book , it's available now
This is our history its not from vedas... thank you sir....
Great book.
Exposes Aryan- Dravidian nonsense
Do these two Bluffmasters have any answer on discovery of stone weapons in Pune which are atleast 100000 to 200000 years old. Either you do research or refer some scientists. Don't push your assumptions.
Human beings are there on earth from 2 million years. He is talking about modern humans. I think I read a theory that there was a period when all of the human populations on the earth got extinct except for the group in Africa, from which the current human population arose
@ABHISHEK RAJU you can verify from Pune archiological survey Deccan College
हिंदी में भी एक विडियो बनाये सर्।
Subtitle ho skta h 😥
I don't what you are saying
No clarity
Joseph describes himself as an atheist... Aha!
There is no genetic basis of aryan dravidian caste divide. The so called aryan r1a1 is found in the highest concentration in Toda tribes in Nilligri hills who are purely Dravidian in language in culture and next highest in Manipuri people who are sino-tibetian, both having more than that in punjabis. I wonder why tony forgot to talk about these things XD perhaps some political agenda ?
R1a is least in Toga tribes. It is highest in North Indian higher castes.
It's possible to be ancestrally one thing and culturally another. If an "aryan" man married a "dravidian" woman, he might have lots of children but growing up in her community, they wouldn't necessarily speak his language. It's the same with migrants breeding with native populations everywhere. Inbreeding would then share and keep within the tribe the genes throughout later generations.
Sir agar ye bate hindi me hoti to bahusankhayak log samajh pate
They are discussing in simple words?
The book discusses about India, mate. Not all Indians speak Hindi.
हिंदी में बुक आ गई है
Oh man so many mistakes !
First, Mr. Tony Joseph is not an archeologist, but just a journalist. There are two kind of journalist, One, who search and uncover unknown things with open mind, Second, who first decide what they want, and uncover it with closed mind.
Mr Tony talks about these migration as if he was running an international travel agency. After few 100 years it will be difficult to prove if Whites/Caucasians came to London or Indians (from India) and who displaced who?
He is nothing more than a parrot, regurgitating what his Christian-overlord have preached him. He said Indian history is proven wrong by Archeological findings, care to point at some Indian archeological document or Paper. Now, pls. don’t tell me Indian Archeological are incompetent.
The other person, very impatient, ignorant of tenets of being a host, wants to prove he read something up about it, and knows more than the other. :D
Listening to these folks makes me feel like two bling men who have no idea of what T-Rex is, are dueling it out as to who knows it better. How T-Rex pooped all red and then ate it. Kind of makes me feel these guys are communist mindset. Just a hunch.
Also the concept of Hybrid (gene poop), that is called Half-knowledge Idiots. Whenever a foreign or outside person comes in contact with a remote-isolated group (who were alive all this time without any interference or “Hybridization”, example adivasis in Andaman) there is a high chance the outside brings in disease that local population is not immune to, and hence usually they die.
With Genetic, it has not been proven, which direction it goes (in short span). Just because somethings are similar does not mean one came from another. It could be two branch like of ‘Y’. One could argue, Humans share 99% DNA with Chimps, does that mean humans become Chimp ?
About religious mind set, I definitely feel they are racist in religious sense. Like the host mentioning “Hindus” and not certain people who oppose, and later Tony himself saying “Swayam Bhu” ..as far as I understand that word denotes Hindu God ‘Shiva’ and Not “Hindus”-following-race.
Also the argument he talks about, is twisted. British implied that, “Indians are nothing but downgraded race after mixing with Dravidians, the originals/pure were Aryans (now the British). So, it would be wrong to call the new arrival British as outsiders”.
What is this.... . Are you in world of mith ? Tony sir talking on the basics of evidence of archiology livustic,..... you read fully then ask question
@@jothis9991 :) A half filled Glass is both Half full and Half Empty.
Like the Rakhigarhi DNA, Indian archeological paper, said Nothing!!.. Just what they found, and info on it. People selectively took what they want and construct with their biased-glue.
Hho cares, how much of my DNA is same as yours, just as long as you are Indian.
This is the nation of Hindus Christians and other religion people should not talk
what kind of intelligence they have just keep mum what kind of democracy what all are damages can be done in people's mind is visible here not only here it's all over the world we live in this earth some years only every one hate everyone by religion caste status and countrywise divided we came empty hand we will go empty hand whoever it is better don't colour our mind and heart with someone's words to hate someone . And Moreover I am a proud Indian as well as a proud Christian and I don't hate anybody my God shown us to Love everyone. Jesus Loves everyone.
@@anilvarghese7362 Da Anil-e (assuming you are below 40yrs of age), That damage is what I am talking about. Try to think from others point of view. See, how vote bank politics has shaped this nation.
People accuse Hindus of being aggressive and intolerant ..but fail to see for 1000s of years no religion were stopped ..right in your neighborhood 'Yahudiis' were given place to stay and protected. People from Iran were given place, but when we (hindus) are targeted ..what do you expect us to do ? Do you know there are many criminal cases going on where Hindus were hurt or killed because they are Hindus (In India ?) ..No media talks about it. These are not isolated incidents.
Tell me a nations where majority people have suffered at the hands of minority and they kept quite ? I too am proud ..and proud that we have tolerated, given respect to and live with people who do not share our beliefs. Because at the end of the day ..there can not be separate God for each one of us.
..about the talker of this video: Pls. search about 'Sinauli' archeology discovery and 'Babhaniyav' near Varanasi.
There is something called genetic gradient.. study that
Bad host
Talageri has destroyed his work LOL
Population genetics was done by Reich in Harvard through ancient genetics he quoted his work.
And whole world accept the fact of indo european migration from central Asia ,, other than india
@@nissar_fasil 'And whole world accept the fact of indo european migration from central Asia ,, other than india' Well there's a reason why others cannot but India can
@@hrivaansahani1750 Yes because they have a tendency to accept the fact by analysing proper evidence with the help of science but we analysis every thing with the help of religion. Simple
@@nissar_fasil No, Not really. Thats not the reason.
@@hrivaansahani1750 Just refer the paper he mention that's the paper impact the history of world.
Facts and history doesn't give any pride to us. We must see this in Academic perspective