Shieeeet, this is bad. Does it apply to classic Ioniq 28 kWh, new Ioniq 38 kWh, Kia Soul 27 kWh and 30 kWh as well? They all use the same Mobis motor? I should make a video about this in my channel and link to your video.
Interesting, Ioniq 28 which is owned by my two best friends, to not have poorly designed powertrain and it still drive without any milling noise. Old Ioniq is better sample of powertrain assembly
Kia/Hyundai have a lot of bearing failures - both on motor and gearbox. Weak deasign. If you compare the bearings to Tesla driveunits, there the bearings are MUCH bigger. Change the oil every 50,000 km in a Kia/Hyundai! And take an oil sample and analyse it! Change the gearbox oil every 100,000 km on my Teslas (small company fleet). PS: Watch the video from Weber Auto State University about the teardown of Tesla and other drive units. Also at Munro Live.
@@danmx5 Just search some Hyu/Kia EV forums for motor and gearbox defects. Most of them fall (so far) under warranty, but they take a long repair time. After 160,000 km you pay it out of your pocket. EVERY 100-200,000 (?) new bearings.
Thanks for sharing! I believe Hyundai and Kia in Australia only replace the motor and gearbox on seperate occasions hoping they resolve the issue. They end up wasting time having to pull the unit out twice
Thank you for the effort you did to document this annoying issue. Your engineering skills look very confident and fearless. It is such a big job to get the gearbox out! I have a 2020 Eniro with only 13,000 miles. It seems ok so far but this weak point is worrisome. I intended to keep the car for many years. Why didn’t they introduce the oil change as a new part of the annual service after they saw early failures and black oil? The standard service schedule *never* replaces the oil! It’s clear they must have known about this issue for years. Same unit in Hyundai earlier EVs. yet it seems they did absolutely nothing to address it. I have just replaced the gear oil as a precaution, and added magnetic drain and fill plugs. As usual, the old oil was very black. I will probably change the oil at every 10,000 miles or maybe less. I only cover about 4000 miles each year. I noticed you said (and I could hear!) some bearing noise from when you test spun the motor shaft on the bench. So did you also renew the actual motor bearings as well? Keep up the great work please. Thanks for any further information.
It would have been nice to see a lot more detail of what was actually wrong and how repairs were completed with the motor. Both parts of course have had these failures in the Kona as well since production began.
I had a similar problem in 2019 after 7000 km. As I understood it they had to put more lubrication in the motor. After that it drove 110 000 km with no problem. Then I sold the car. On my Niro EV now with 50”km and no problems.
This seems a very common issue across all the Kia e-Niro forums. I myself have the issue on my 36 month old 43,000 mile car. It is going in tomorrow to the Kia garage for motor and gearbox replacement.
You should have binned that black loose useless ring magnet! It can't be cleaned when changing oil anyway. Usually, gearboxes don't have magnets inside to collect bits of particles! Replace it with a magnetic drain plug instead.
It is a overconstrained bearing. A rookie design mistake in reduction gearbox. Nothing can fix it, it is bad design. You can change oil, replace bearings, or keep replacing gearboxes until it goes out of warranty. But issue cannot be fixed w/o re-design. You have two shafts constrained with two bearings each, connected via splined connection. It will chew itself up.
Interesting. I had wondered about that. There is no *give* between the two units. Any minuscule misalignment due to natural manufacturing tolerances could result in huge sideloads on both of the mating shafts and bearings. Is this why some cars seem to have zero issues at 200k miles yet others have trouble at 10K. Is it luck of the draw on the manufacturing and assembly tolerances? I read that in the early examples of this noise problem they were advised to strip down and add some special grease to the motor shaft splines. That suggests they are aware of this design issue. That still may not explain why they all seem to get black oil very fast. Also, used oil analysis reportedly finds aluminium as well as steel. Why aluminium?
@@ThePrawlin It is totally random. The better the alignment between shafts the more time you get before it fails. But spline is not a flex plate or CV. It will eventually fail. During that time, it will shed a ton of metal particles into the oil which will chew up other unrelated things: bearings etc. So "black oil" is consequence of having metal grit being fed into oil by spline fretting. Thats why Auto gearbox has a flex plate....to flex. :)
@@goranamcoff6235but AFAIK the motor shaft splines are not directly exposed to the oil are they? Also, apparently some have had the black oil analysed. They found high aluminium particulates (and steel). I think it could mainly be the aluminium that mainly makes the oil go black. I wonder if the high aluminium could be caused by bearing outer ring(s) spinning in the aluminium housings?
@@ThePrawlin I can only guess, but if splines are even slightly out of alignment they will wobble and subject bearings to vibrations (splines will be fretting and releasing particles at the same time). Aluminium bore, being subect to fatigue, might get enlarged and/or outer bearing race might start spinning in alu bore. There are myriads of failure modes for such overconstrained design depending on what fails first.
@@olliluukkonen1138 100% reliable vehicle doesnt exists, nor ICE nor EV. Question is how easy and cheap is it repairable, and how often something fails. The most reliable and cheapest (price of new) powertrain is in Tesla
Hi, I'm getting my e-Soul 2020 motor replaced at the dealership under warranty with the newer PartNumber, which led to delays in the part order (they inspected and estimated the gearbox didn't need a change, but found metal filings and will bill me the oil, I might write a mail to Kia France about that). The dealership is being very protective and refuses to give me the TSB number But I'm wondering, if it ever happened, post-warranty, how much would you bill the operation ?
@@evclinic errr, i meant the bearing replacement service, not the whole Motor+GDU units +service and 2 weeks of vacation in croatia (which I will for sure do in a near futur) :) (Motor + GDU are about $4600 (E712) and $1400 (8EA1))
Motor and gearbox have just been replaced on my eniro from 2020 after 77.500 km. On the other side I know a taxi driver having driven 450.000 km with the same car and he's not finished with it.
„Every“ seems like a Overestimation without foundation? As we hear about +100kkm Cars with that Motor and zero issues - even 300kkm ( e-Niro Taxi in Austria). Admittedly, no clue if those did frequent oil changes.
Hallo. i have this problem with my car. i live in denmark and have no idea where i can find a mechanic who can fix this issue for me ? Do you have any contact i can get to a place who can fix my car. I am willing to drive far to fix my car also outside of denmark. Kind Regard Jacob Sørensen
@@evclinic dacia sandero 1.4 2009g. Nikad neću mijenjati iste. Teoretski ti auti bi trebali zahtjevati izuzetno malo održavanja. Praktično, mislim da imate i tek ćete imati posla!
@@evclinic if I was in Croatia, I would come to you to fix mine because Kia garage is going to put new same weak bearings! I need to look for a British company that manufactures bearings and ask them to make stronger ones for me. Maybe that way, the problem would be solved.
Shieeeet, this is bad. Does it apply to classic Ioniq 28 kWh, new Ioniq 38 kWh, Kia Soul 27 kWh and 30 kWh as well? They all use the same Mobis motor? I should make a video about this in my channel and link to your video.
Interesting, Ioniq 28 which is owned by my two best friends, to not have poorly designed powertrain and it still drive without any milling noise. Old Ioniq is better sample of powertrain assembly
Read comments on my FB page, everyone reporting milling issue on all Kia Hyubdai vehicles. Sitauation is alarming
Kia/Hyundai have a lot of bearing failures - both on motor and gearbox. Weak deasign. If you compare the bearings to Tesla driveunits, there the bearings are MUCH bigger. Change the oil every 50,000 km in a Kia/Hyundai! And take an oil sample and analyse it! Change the gearbox oil every 100,000 km on my Teslas (small company fleet). PS: Watch the video from Weber Auto State University about the teardown of Tesla and other drive units. Also at Munro Live.
It would be great if you could, a lot of people don't know about the issue or how common it is.
But how common is it exactly?
@@danmx5 Just search some Hyu/Kia EV forums for motor and gearbox defects. Most of them fall (so far) under warranty, but they take a long repair time. After 160,000 km you pay it out of your pocket. EVERY 100-200,000 (?) new bearings.
Thanks for sharing!
I believe Hyundai and Kia in Australia only replace the motor and gearbox on seperate occasions hoping they resolve the issue. They end up wasting time having to pull the unit out twice
Thank you for the effort you did to document this annoying issue. Your engineering skills look very confident and fearless. It is such a big job to get the gearbox out! I have a 2020 Eniro with only 13,000 miles. It seems ok so far but this weak point is worrisome. I intended to keep the car for many years. Why didn’t they introduce the oil change as a new part of the annual service after they saw early failures and black oil? The standard service schedule *never* replaces the oil! It’s clear they must have known about this issue for years. Same unit in Hyundai earlier EVs. yet it seems they did absolutely nothing to address it. I have just replaced the gear oil as a precaution, and added magnetic drain and fill plugs. As usual, the old oil was very black. I will probably change the oil at every 10,000 miles or maybe less. I only cover about 4000 miles each year. I noticed you said (and I could hear!) some bearing noise from when you test spun the motor shaft on the bench. So did you also renew the actual motor bearings as well? Keep up the great work please. Thanks for any further information.
It would have been nice to see a lot more detail of what was actually wrong and how repairs were completed with the motor. Both parts of course have had these failures in the Kona as well since production began.
Thank you for the warning. Will go to change the geatbox oil as soon as possible. 👍
0:44 when ICE engineers design an EV......still looks like ICE 😂
Fantastic Job! Fantastic Video! How much would a service like this cost in your company?
Around 1500€
Sound great! At first sounds like an old telephone ring but then like a badass v6 or v8 engine! 😂😂😂
I had a similar problem in 2019 after 7000 km. As I understood it they had to put more lubrication in the motor. After that it drove 110 000 km with no problem. Then I sold the car. On my Niro EV now with 50”km and no problems.
Tko ZNA, ZNA!!!👏👏👏👏👏
was the problem only the traction gear or also the traction motor? Did you replace the motor?
This seems a very common issue across all the Kia e-Niro forums. I myself have the issue on my 36 month old 43,000 mile car.
It is going in tomorrow to the Kia garage for motor and gearbox replacement.
I have one with same mileage for reman for tomorrow
You should have binned that black loose useless ring magnet! It can't be cleaned when changing oil anyway.
Usually, gearboxes don't have magnets inside to collect bits of particles! Replace it with a magnetic drain plug instead.
It is a overconstrained bearing. A rookie design mistake in reduction gearbox. Nothing can fix it, it is bad design. You can change oil, replace bearings, or keep replacing gearboxes until it goes out of warranty. But issue cannot be fixed w/o re-design. You have two shafts constrained with two bearings each, connected via splined connection. It will chew itself up.
Interesting. I had wondered about that. There is no *give* between the two units. Any minuscule misalignment due to natural manufacturing tolerances could result in huge sideloads on both of the mating shafts and bearings. Is this why some cars seem to have zero issues at 200k miles yet others have trouble at 10K. Is it luck of the draw on the manufacturing and assembly tolerances? I read that in the early examples of this noise problem they were advised to strip down and add some special grease to the motor shaft splines. That suggests they are aware of this design issue. That still may not explain why they all seem to get black oil very fast. Also, used oil analysis reportedly finds aluminium as well as steel. Why aluminium?
@@ThePrawlin It is totally random. The better the alignment between shafts the more time you get before it fails. But spline is not a flex plate or CV. It will eventually fail. During that time, it will shed a ton of metal particles into the oil which will chew up other unrelated things: bearings etc. So "black oil" is consequence of having metal grit being fed into oil by spline fretting. Thats why Auto gearbox has a flex plate....to flex. :)
@@goranamcoff6235but AFAIK the motor shaft splines are not directly exposed to the oil are they? Also, apparently some have had the black oil analysed. They found high aluminium particulates (and steel). I think it could mainly be the aluminium that mainly makes the oil go black. I wonder if the high aluminium could be caused by bearing outer ring(s) spinning in the aluminium housings?
@@ThePrawlin I can only guess, but if splines are even slightly out of alignment they will wobble and subject bearings to vibrations (splines will be fretting and releasing particles at the same time). Aluminium bore, being subect to fatigue, might get enlarged and/or outer bearing race might start spinning in alu bore. There are myriads of failure modes for such overconstrained design depending on what fails first.
So what does a failed bearing have to do with the motor?
Rotor bearing failed too, not as much as gearbox but still damaged
Pozdrav iz Belišća, koje je ulje najbolje za Ioniq 28 kWh?
Koliko je ukupno kostao servis, tj vas rad i delovi za popravku Drive Unit-a? Sve ukupno 1500, zajedno sa delovima ili?
Odlican video
Ovaj slucaj je bio 900€ bez PDV
@@evclinic Hvala na odgovoru!
Which EV would you recommend? Seems like every EV have some reliability issues.
@@olliluukkonen1138 100% reliable vehicle doesnt exists, nor ICE nor EV. Question is how easy and cheap is it repairable, and how often something fails. The most reliable and cheapest (price of new) powertrain is in Tesla
Kaksno olje se da je notri?
Sem lastnik Kone 39, 2021
Hi,
I'm getting my e-Soul 2020 motor replaced at the dealership under warranty with the newer PartNumber, which led to delays in the part order (they inspected and estimated the gearbox didn't need a change, but found metal filings and will bill me the oil, I might write a mail to Kia France about that). The dealership is being very protective and refuses to give me the TSB number
But I'm wondering, if it ever happened, post-warranty, how much would you bill the operation ?
@@jaxxdotorg 10000€
@@evclinic errr, i meant the bearing replacement service, not the whole Motor+GDU units +service and 2 weeks of vacation in croatia (which I will for sure do in a near futur) :) (Motor + GDU are about $4600 (E712) and $1400 (8EA1))
By any chance do you know bearing model number i reductiongear?
evclinic.eu/product/kia-eniro-edrive-kit-repair/
Motor and gearbox have just been replaced on my eniro from 2020 after 77.500 km. On the other side I know a taxi driver having driven 450.000 km with the same car and he's not finished with it.
@@agawokwo Taxi drivers lie in 95% cases.
„Every“ seems like a Overestimation without foundation?
As we hear about +100kkm Cars with that Motor and zero issues - even 300kkm ( e-Niro Taxi in Austria).
Admittedly, no clue if those did frequent oil changes.
Because drive assembly probably changed in one of service visits under warranty
What about EV6 and EV9?
I had some whistleblowers reporting they have same or similar issues. But i cant confirm until i receive one
@evclinic seems it failed :)
Hallo.
i have this problem with my car. i live in denmark and have no idea where i can find a mechanic who can fix this issue for me ?
Do you have any contact i can get to a place who can fix my car. I am willing to drive far to fix my car also outside of denmark.
Kind Regard Jacob Sørensen
Znači za 10g bi ti auti mogli biti sa malo održavanja.
Ako zamjenis lezajeve. Egr dpf dizne addblue remenje lance zatezace turbine nox senzore zamasnjake i ostalo ne treba nikad mjenjati
@@evclinic dacia sandero 1.4 2009g.
Nikad neću mijenjati iste.
Teoretski ti auti bi trebali zahtjevati izuzetno malo održavanja.
Praktično, mislim da imate i tek ćete imati posla!
@@tomaras9790 ima i na sanderu odrzavanja. I njima prozuji dif, samo ti to ignoriras dok se ne raspane
@@evclinic pa nema auta bez održavanja.
Ali ev je skupa i premlada tehologija za kupnju, a pogotovo rabljeni.
My Kia eniro have 41000km and i have this Noise 🫨
No way
@@evclinic I just bought a kia e niro, it was ok, 2 weeks later, I hear the same sound! 68,000 miles on it!
@@fix-and-drive-diy-repairs 2. Minutes ago i had call from Slovenia, 60k miles and rattling sound inside eNiro drive unit.
@@evclinic if I was in Croatia, I would come to you to fix mine because Kia garage is going to put new same weak bearings! I need to look for a British company that manufactures bearings and ask them to make stronger ones for me. Maybe that way, the problem would be solved.
@@fix-and-drive-diy-repairs No it wont help. Bad design cant be solved with “better” bearings. Rotor discharge flaw need new design