Not sure that the comparison to three structures that utilize little, if any, high-performance building applied at a systems level is pertinent other than the susceptibility of polyiso and other similar rigid insulation materials to damage-sometimes extreme damage-by insects. I think this a very real problem that is not discussed enough. Glad you mentioned it.
I took down a severely neglected farmhouse here in Kentucky recently. The main body of the house was early 1900’s, clapboards over tar paper over 1x oak cladding. Even in areas of heavy water intrusion like around windows, the structure was only rot-ish, but still holding on. Under the clapboard, the tar paper looked dirty but otherwise new. There were 2 more recent additions. One from the 1970’s that was t-111 over polyiso. And another that was osb over polyiso. The t-111 and older framing wood was in good shape, but the polyiso was completely hollowed out by ants, termites, and bees. Same for the polyiso in the osb addition, but both the framing and the osb were basically dust held together by habit. I was able to reuse wood from the original house and the 1970’s addition. I understand a lot of engineering goes into these modern building systems, but it seems like there are a lot of interlocking dependencies that require any future occupant to be hyper vigilant about upkeep.
Steve, I enjoyed the preemptive pushback on the trolling comments about Zip-R. You still got some anyway, but I know you’ll keep putting in the word out on good building science.
Zone 6, Oromocto, New Brunswick for example. The National Building code changes 2010 - require poly layer interior wall. Having not seen the interior, I don't know if Poly is used. If it is used to meet code, I would question the use of Zip R9, in this location. Poly interiors require drying to the outside.
When you say “poly layer interior wall”, I’m guessing you mean a layer of foamboard behind the drywall. Is that correct? That’s an idea that I’ve been liking recently, since (in a northern climate) the foamboard is adjacent to the vapor barrier, and they both resist vapor/air flow. How thick of foamboard does your code require? One related product that I’ve found is electrical boxes with a flange to seal the vapor barrier to, such as Allied Moulded 1099-NV2. Their thickest version accommodates a combined drywall + foamboard thickness of 1 1/8”, so the foamboard would still be only 1/2”, and only have a modest insulation value.
Using ZIP R-system in a cold climate is never a good idea with wooden framed walls... It might dry to the inside (if the internal finish incl. paint, remains more or less vapor open) but you have to wait until summertime. The condensing surface may shift to the poly iso surface, but the external tape is not insulated and therefore remains a condensing surface with the extra drawback that the condensate (water) *will seep directly into the OSB-layer* of the ZIP panels.
According to the National Ready Mixed Concrete Association, each pound of concrete releases 0.93 pounds of carbon dioxide. Since concrete is such a widespread item, the amount of CO2 released in the industry continues to grow. I'm all for the ICF with a reduced amount of concrete use.
Well it works on the wall. Huber has tested shear values for each thickness......and actually I would have a bigger fear using it on the roof. I have had numerous conversations with my structural engineer about it.....your opinion is unfortunately reversed
Awesome Framers covers this issue in detail on their channel. They have used Zip-R in the Pacific Northwest in a seismic zone with large lateral loads. It has to be engineered, of course, but reducing the fastener spacing (say, from 4” o.c. to 3” o.c.) and slightly increasing the diameter of the deformed fasteners (ring shank, spiral shank, or screws) is all that is required to meet the shear value. Wind loading requirements on this project are probably even a bit higher than the seismic requirements in the PNW, but same principle applies.
Not sure that the comparison to three structures that utilize little, if any, high-performance building applied at a systems level is pertinent other than the susceptibility of polyiso and other similar rigid insulation materials to damage-sometimes extreme damage-by insects. I think this a very real problem that is not discussed enough. Glad you mentioned it.
I took down a severely neglected farmhouse here in Kentucky recently. The main body of the house was early 1900’s, clapboards over tar paper over 1x oak cladding. Even in areas of heavy water intrusion like around windows, the structure was only rot-ish, but still holding on. Under the clapboard, the tar paper looked dirty but otherwise new. There were 2 more recent additions. One from the 1970’s that was t-111 over polyiso. And another that was osb over polyiso. The t-111 and older framing wood was in good shape, but the polyiso was completely hollowed out by ants, termites, and bees. Same for the polyiso in the osb addition, but both the framing and the osb were basically dust held together by habit. I was able to reuse wood from the original house and the 1970’s addition. I understand a lot of engineering goes into these modern building systems, but it seems like there are a lot of interlocking dependencies that require any future occupant to be hyper vigilant about upkeep.
Steve, I enjoyed the preemptive pushback on the trolling comments about Zip-R. You still got some anyway, but I know you’ll keep putting in the word out on good building science.
Why didn’t you use ICF all the way to the roof? Thanks
Not my decision....
Zone 6, Oromocto, New Brunswick for example. The National Building code changes 2010 - require poly layer interior wall. Having not seen the interior, I don't know if Poly is used. If it is used to meet code, I would question the use of Zip R9, in this location. Poly interiors require drying to the outside.
When you say “poly layer interior wall”, I’m guessing you mean a layer of foamboard behind the drywall. Is that correct? That’s an idea that I’ve been liking recently, since (in a northern climate) the foamboard is adjacent to the vapor barrier, and they both resist vapor/air flow. How thick of foamboard does your code require? One related product that I’ve found is electrical boxes with a flange to seal the vapor barrier to, such as Allied Moulded 1099-NV2. Their thickest version accommodates a combined drywall + foamboard thickness of 1 1/8”, so the foamboard would still be only 1/2”, and only have a modest insulation value.
@@kc9scott I would say, consult your local building permit office and don't listen to these cowboys.
He used Siga Mayrex - smart vapor retarder...on the inside
Siga Mayrex on the interior
Aron is a smart guy.....doing smart things
Will the builder also use the ZIP Rainscreen (woven mat) in this case as mitigation for the rain water?
there will be some rainscreen mitigation system
Steve, why did you stab his wall? 😂
Stab?? you lost me
@@stevenbaczekarchitect9431 @10:32
Using ZIP R-system in a cold climate is never a good idea with wooden framed walls... It might dry to the inside (if the internal finish incl. paint, remains more or less vapor open) but you have to wait until summertime.
The condensing surface may shift to the poly iso surface, but the external tape is not insulated and therefore remains a condensing surface with the extra drawback that the condensate (water) *will seep directly into the OSB-layer* of the ZIP panels.
According to the National Ready Mixed Concrete Association, each pound of concrete releases 0.93 pounds of carbon dioxide. Since concrete is such a widespread item, the amount of CO2 released in the industry continues to grow. I'm all for the ICF with a reduced amount of concrete use.
Permanent Wood Foundations (PWF) would even be better CO2-wise 🙂
Agreed, but it is a system not widely accepted
Green zip panel with insulation ? shear panel is away from studs by foam insulation , it is not good system , would use it for a roof not for walls.
Well it works on the wall. Huber has tested shear values for each thickness......and actually I would have a bigger fear using it on the roof. I have had numerous conversations with my structural engineer about it.....your opinion is unfortunately reversed
@@stevenbaczekarchitect9431 Thanks for reply.
Awesome Framers covers this issue in detail on their channel. They have used Zip-R in the Pacific Northwest in a seismic zone with large lateral loads. It has to be engineered, of course, but reducing the fastener spacing (say, from 4” o.c. to 3” o.c.) and slightly increasing the diameter of the deformed fasteners (ring shank, spiral shank, or screws) is all that is required to meet the shear value. Wind loading requirements on this project are probably even a bit higher than the seismic requirements in the PNW, but same principle applies.
Tjanks for your time.