My (lengthy) thoughts on this episode: Gardevoir is actually very favored into Dragapult. You can heal 50 out of 60 damage with Munkidori + Cresselia twice, and when they're up 3 to 4, your best option is to evolve one Kirlia into Gallade and Turo the other (damaged) one. If they don't run Alakazam, you only have to evolve the damaged Kirlia or Turo it, rather than doing both. Then, you can attack with Gallade + Munkidori to Counter Catcher KO Rotom and finish off the Pult ex on the next turn. If they Scoop Up Rotom, you just take another single prize KO with Gallade, then KOing a single prizer next turn with Gardevoir ex and finishing off the game with Drifloon. The matchup is almost free. And against Lugia you just jam Mimikyu in the active until you can attack. Ideally, you TBurst into a Miccino to set it up for a Minkidori + Mimikyu KO if they don't put mist energy on the Cinccino. But if you just stick Mimikyu in the active spot, then they either have to find Boss or take a 1-prize KO with Cinccino, which kills their tempo. Because of the single prize nature of Gardevoir, you often run Lugia low on energy and force Blood Moon into play so that they can even attack, and that's a free two-prize KO. Your prizemap is usually kill 2 Cinccino and Lugia, with your middle 2 prizes either coming from Hands + Cinccino or Blood Moon Ursaluna. I also think that Hyper Aroma is optimal in Gardevoir. First, it allows you to draw more cards because you can use the refinements the turn you play the card, as opposed to TM Evo, and ultimately have a greater chance to win the game. Second, it allows you to put Mimikyu (or Klefki, if you play it and you hit the right matchup) in the active spot on turn one, and that can really throw off most decks' prizemaps. I find it to be crucial in many matchups to have Mimikyu forcing Boss or Prime Catcher in order for them to have a reasonable prizemap. Third, it allows you to play Irida. Irida is a huge consistency boost to the deck, either guaranteeing Greninja for draw or finding Manaphy easily in the matchups where it's necessary. Losing the ability to find Charms is insignificant, as you can easily draw through your deck with the increased draw power of Hyper Aroma. Flutter Mane in Gardevoir is a lie. It may help your lost zone matchups, but Gallade does as well, and Gallade is also very strong into Dragapult and just generally useful. Essentially, with Gallade in the deck, you can make any of the important plays that you could in pre-rotation Gardevoir against lost zone decks---and those matchups were all favored. Gallade also allows you to cut an Iono and the second Turo and add Pal Pad and Research to the list, vastly increasing your late game potential while preserving your early consistency. Gallade is always better than Flutter Mane. However, Klefki is a different story. It helps against Snorlax and allows you to fill your bench against it, but it shuts down Miraidon and Raging Bolt if you just retreat into it turn 1. It also can be quite useful against lost zone decks. Klefki also has the bonus of shutting off Crown against Future Hands. I think that this makes Klefki a strong play for NAIC. I don't think that Lugia is as strong as you say. Every time I pick up the deck, it seems super inconsistent, and it tends to either run out of Archeops, Cinccinos, or energy before the game ends in many matchups. I don't think that the deck has what it takes to truly be a tier 1 deck. While Jamming Tower is scary for Gardevoir and Control, I don't think it will be very popular. Many decks, like Dragapult and Miraidon, are heavily reliant on tools themselves and would never play such a card in the first place. I don't think that there's really a reason to play SableZard anymore. It lost Klara to rotation already, and Lost Box now has Bloodmoon Ursaluna, so now you can effectively run RadZard and Greninja. Iron Thorns doesn't work against Gardevoir. Just put Flutter Mane or Klefki in the active, and you can turn off Thorns's ability and win the game on the spot. The deck only beats Zard. It's definitely D Tier. Also, don't forget that Greninja is weak to Gardevoir. Arc Armorouge can one-shot Dragapult with Max Belt and 6 energy. With the amount of options it has, I think that Arc Armorouge has the potential to be a B Tier deck.
I messed up the order of actions against Dragapult. You Cress when they're up 5-6, you Gallade when they're up 4-5, and you Cress again when you're either down 3-4 or tied at 3 (depending on whether you KO'd Rotom). Then, you Gardevoir ex at 2-2 or 2-3 for one prize, evolving the damaged Kirlia, and close out the game with Scream Tail on a single prizer or Drifloon on the Dragapult ex. If they go for a single prize board while attacking with RadZard, you can Scream Tail around it, and often their only switch out was used to remove the Pult ex from play. Also, pinging Tatsugiri with Munkidori can set up some multi-prize turns in the late game by continuously moving damage onto it.
Also, Gallade is just generally good in that matchup as it allows you to find Turo whenever you need it. For example, if they gust around your Gallade, you can just Buddy Catch for Turo to remove all the damage on it from play. You do need to turn attach once or twice to it in order to attack with it without it getting sniped on the bench by Dragapult, so be aware of that. It also sets up a second Gallade play if you so desire, as its attack will move an energy to a benched Kirlia that you can then evove into Gallade (or Gardevoir ex) and attack with. Putting Mimikyu in the active spot early could be a strong play in this matchup, but it's probably not worth it as it will just become a liability in the late game and will clog up your bench. I need to test this more.
Thanks for such a detailed reply, I can tell you've put in the work with Gardevoir, and anyone who is trying to play it should read your comment! I haven't tested Gallade, but you're inspiring me to give it a try. I've found that if Dragapult runs Scoop up Cyclone and Turo the matchup can be a bit tricky sometimes, but it seems like most lists are playing Neo Upper now. I really like your point about Hyper Aroma allowing you to retreat to Flutter/Klefki turn one. You mentioned you think Flutter is fake though so are you still playing it? On Lugia, I agree it can be inconsistent. If it wasn't then it's clear S tier to me, but I've found it sets up often enough to be a really powerful deck. With Iron Hands now it can also put so much pressure on decks that they can't really afford to KO chops some turns. - Ciaran
@@ShiftGearPodcast As regards retreating into something on the first turn, you usually retreat into Mimikyu. You can do so with Klefki, but Mimikyu is the primary target.
I've thought more about Klefki, and I don't think it's as good as I said. In most matchups, it's simply a win more card, and against the aggressive decks Mimikyu would work almost as well. However, it is still very strong against Snorlax, so for that reason alone it might be worth keeping. To beat stall, however, it might just be better to add another Turo or a 9th Psychic energy. I'm currently on the 9th energy train, as it allows you to prize one or two and still have a decent shot at winning, and, if you don't prize any, it allows you to bench Cresselia or Scream Tail as your 6th Pokemon and still be able to deal reasonable damage. And having the 9th energy just makes it easier to find enough to attack in the early game and gives you more draws with Greninja, as well as increasing your ability to retreat into Mimikyu turn 1 if necessary.
Everybody sleeping on Dipplin. Roseannes backup with Max Belt and 2 Swirlix with Luminous energy and the deck is INSANE. You run One vitality, one defiance, one choice and max belt and every single matchup feels favored. Even against dragapult with a 1 - 1 Rabsca line feels 50-50 at worst.
@@ShiftGearPodcast Absolutely, here is the list I am using right now and I am doing very well with it. Pokémon: 4 Applin TWM 17 4 Dipplin TWM 18 4 Grookey TWM 14 4 Thwackey TWM 15 2 Swirlix TWM 89 1 Rabsca TEF 24 1 Rellor TEF 23 Trainer: 4 Iono PAL 185 3 Professor's Research SVI 190 2 Boss's Orders PAL 172 1 Roseanne's Backup BRS 148 4 Buddy-Buddy Poffin TEF 144 4 Bug Catching Set TWM 143 2 Ultra Ball SVI 196 2 Switch SVI 194 2 Super Rod PAL 188 1 Counter Catcher PAR 160 1 Pal Pad SVI 182 2 Rescue Board TEF 159 1 Vitality Band SVI 197 1 Maximum Belt TEF 154 1 Defiance Band SVI 169 1 Choice Belt PAL 176 3 Festival Grounds TWM 149 Energy: 3 Basic {G} Energy SVE 1 2 Luminous Energy PAL 191 Luminous plus Swirlix is very nice to setup numbers and you do not care about being behind with this deck. It's just that good at coming back. You're also not bothered by not taking full KOs. I've won numerous games because the opponent ran out of pokemon to push that wouldn't get knocked out. You mainly want to avoid doing that with decks that play Turo. Control is by far the worst match up, Thwackey can get hard stalled way too easily.
@@ShiftGearPodcast if you do test the deck, let me know your thoughts. I’m still fine tuning the list. This is my 8th or 9th iteration of the deck so far.
@@ShiftGearPodcast Pokémon: 8 1 Rabsca TEF 24 3 Thwackey TWM 15 4 Dipplin TWM 18 1 Radiant Venusaur PGO 4 1 Rellor TEF 23 3 Grookey TWM 14 4 Applin TWM 17 2 Swirlix TWM 89 Trainer: 17 3 Ultra Ball SVI 196 1 Vitality Band SVI 197 2 Switch SVI 194 2 Professor's Research SVI 190 1 Defiance Band SVI 169 4 Buddy-Buddy Poffin TEF 144 1 Counter Catcher PAR 160 4 Iono PAL 185 2 Super Rod PAL 188 1 Maximum Belt TEF 154 1 Pal Pad SVI 182 3 Nest Ball SVI 181 1 Rescue Board TEF 159 4 Bug Catching Set TWM 143 1 Roseanne's Backup BRS 148 2 Boss's Orders PAL 172 3 Festival Grounds TWM 149 Energy: 2 3 Basic {G} Energy SVE 1 2 Luminous Energy PAL 191 Total Cards: 60 Updated list. Greater consistency, the venasaur is on the board for potentially getting cut, but can bail you out early game if your hand is just terrible, but I find I only use it once every 8-10 games.
My contribution to the podcast can be counted on one hand and I hope to remain that way! Thanks for the shoutout, was fun making you sad a bit but you never say no to a random match. Markings of a great coach and person 🎉.
The Greninja deck actually goes kind of insane. I think putting in 1 Frogadier for when you hyper aroma off Irida works really well. I don't think it's top tier or even close, but it's sick for sure. The Palkia variant is probably better at this moment, however.
Strange that the testing sentiment around Greninja has been generally made with the Froslass package, not Pidgeot or Palkia. Went 3-0 at locals vs Dragapult with the Pidgeot build. A few changes since and I'm regularly finding lines to a turn-2 attack. Barrage into active Rotom + bench is glorious. The DTE effect is disappointing, but still sets up TM Devo and BM Ursa. And you can offset the deck's own TM Devo weakness with Jamming Tower. Being able to Pidgeot out of Unfair Stamp is also a relief. Cheers!
A couple of people have told me I need to try the deck with Pidgeot now. I can see how that helps solve the issues with disruption. I think the Froslass package was to help the deck set up spread KOs, but maybe that isn't necessary. Barrage into Rotom does seem really strong, but I feel like most decks with Rotom play Manaphy? I'll have to give this build a try! - Ciaran
That's fair, I guess early game you aren't as likely to get disrupted so the cologne play is easier to pull off. I also love these early metagames where everything is less refined and viable! - Ciaran
for me, miraidon feels like a really good meta call. beats lugia, hands farms the single prize decks and with my current list i’m running 2 zapdos to hit 240 for the bolt match up
Minor correction in the Greninja ex topic: When doing the second attack, the attack still 120 to both Pokemon even when you discard the double turbo energy, since the energy is no longer on Greninja ex at that point. I've been playtesting the Greninja ex deck with the Pidgeot version for quite a bit and was able to place 26th/199 going 5-2 in an online tournament. The fact that you can search your deck for any card gives you the flexibility to tech in any card (Eri, Enhanced Hammer, Lost City, TM Devo, Cologne, etc.) you want against a specific matchup, but you have to make the right metagame call in order to have success with it. There will be times where the you get a brick awkward hand. Greninja ex can have multiple roles, Greninja can be used as a hyper aggressive early game card, or can spread the damage and sneak in a TM Devolution. Matchup wise, Greninja wins against Blissey, Dragapult (if you tech in Radiant Tserenna), Iron Thorns, Future Hands, Quad Iron Thorns, Snorlax Stall, Dipplin, and goes even against Raging Bolt/Ogerpon. Overall, I would say Greninja would be upper C at best, due to having bad matchups like Gardevoir and Lugia/Cincinno.
It's a bug on PTCG Live that Greninja damage doesn't get reduced. Even though the energy comes off you do effects of attacks after damage. The Pidgeot does seem better to me, but I still feel like the deck is super susceptible to disruption. How have you been approaching the bolt matchup? It seems like they would have no problem streaming Kos. - Ciaran
@@ShiftGearPodcast If that's the case, then it drastically changes the Raging Bolt matchup. I can now see it be a 25:75 in Raging Bolts favor if Greninja is now dealing 100 damage to both Raging Bolts from the Duplicate Barrage from the Double Turbo energy. Basically, I would use Duplicate Barrage to setup a 2HKO on both Raging bolts, while the player has to burn 5 energies to OHKO Greninja. I can use Eri to discard their Pal Pad/Energy Retrieval/Earthen Vessel and follow it up with an Iono to reduce their hand size. Once I knock out both their Raging bolts, my opponent would have all utility Pokemon, and it would take me two more turns to get the final knockout. For the most part, the opponent will have 2x Raging Bolts, 2x Ogerpons, Radiant Greninja, and Squawkabilly. Their field would have no energies and they would need a lot of resources to get that final knock out on the Pokemon.
That strategy seems pretty effective, but yeah it seems really tough if you can only do 100 at a time. Not really sure what you can tech to make the matchup better tbh. - Ciaran
Dialga actually got much better with Twilight. The new heatran is a literal nuke that’s easy to power up early for huge dents or clean up late game and if you flub your opening hand with it in the active you’re also getting burn damage which helps dialga because now you need less energy luck to hit high numbers. Hyper aroma gets you your Vstar and metangs for one card. It runs heavy Arven to grab rods and aroma with Carmine to get your bench set up easier turn 1. Then it’s basically just rods for energy retrieval and balls to grab whatever else you need bench wise. It’s really solid and more consistent now because you just need to find one arven and if your aroma isn’t prized you’re up and running turn 2.
That's actually pretty interesting. Having a one prize attacker that can trade in to two prizers is always good. My only pause would be it's hard to set up the Vstar attack and then set up Heatran since they both need a lot of energy. The Aroma does seem really good for consistency though! I'll have to play the deck some more, because it does seem promising! - Ciaran
I've talked to a couple people and they've mentioned enjoying Regidrago. If the deck ever gets consistent energy acceleration I think it will be a force! - Ciaran
Have they actually played greninja?! DTE does NOT reduce the snipe damage since it’s an effect, not actually damage from an attack, hence Mist energy being able to block it…
It's a known bug on Live, dte reduces the damage to 100. An effect would be something like damage counters or your opponent can't retreat. Mist also doesn't block Greninja. - Ciaran
My (lengthy) thoughts on this episode:
Gardevoir is actually very favored into Dragapult. You can heal 50 out of 60 damage with Munkidori + Cresselia twice, and when they're up 3 to 4, your best option is to evolve one Kirlia into Gallade and Turo the other (damaged) one. If they don't run Alakazam, you only have to evolve the damaged Kirlia or Turo it, rather than doing both. Then, you can attack with Gallade + Munkidori to Counter Catcher KO Rotom and finish off the Pult ex on the next turn. If they Scoop Up Rotom, you just take another single prize KO with Gallade, then KOing a single prizer next turn with Gardevoir ex and finishing off the game with Drifloon. The matchup is almost free. And against Lugia you just jam Mimikyu in the active until you can attack. Ideally, you TBurst into a Miccino to set it up for a Minkidori + Mimikyu KO if they don't put mist energy on the Cinccino. But if you just stick Mimikyu in the active spot, then they either have to find Boss or take a 1-prize KO with Cinccino, which kills their tempo. Because of the single prize nature of Gardevoir, you often run Lugia low on energy and force Blood Moon into play so that they can even attack, and that's a free two-prize KO. Your prizemap is usually kill 2 Cinccino and Lugia, with your middle 2 prizes either coming from Hands + Cinccino or Blood Moon Ursaluna.
I also think that Hyper Aroma is optimal in Gardevoir. First, it allows you to draw more cards because you can use the refinements the turn you play the card, as opposed to TM Evo, and ultimately have a greater chance to win the game. Second, it allows you to put Mimikyu (or Klefki, if you play it and you hit the right matchup) in the active spot on turn one, and that can really throw off most decks' prizemaps. I find it to be crucial in many matchups to have Mimikyu forcing Boss or Prime Catcher in order for them to have a reasonable prizemap. Third, it allows you to play Irida. Irida is a huge consistency boost to the deck, either guaranteeing Greninja for draw or finding Manaphy easily in the matchups where it's necessary. Losing the ability to find Charms is insignificant, as you can easily draw through your deck with the increased draw power of Hyper Aroma.
Flutter Mane in Gardevoir is a lie. It may help your lost zone matchups, but Gallade does as well, and Gallade is also very strong into Dragapult and just generally useful. Essentially, with Gallade in the deck, you can make any of the important plays that you could in pre-rotation Gardevoir against lost zone decks---and those matchups were all favored. Gallade also allows you to cut an Iono and the second Turo and add Pal Pad and Research to the list, vastly increasing your late game potential while preserving your early consistency. Gallade is always better than Flutter Mane. However, Klefki is a different story. It helps against Snorlax and allows you to fill your bench against it, but it shuts down Miraidon and Raging Bolt if you just retreat into it turn 1. It also can be quite useful against lost zone decks. Klefki also has the bonus of shutting off Crown against Future Hands. I think that this makes Klefki a strong play for NAIC.
I don't think that Lugia is as strong as you say. Every time I pick up the deck, it seems super inconsistent, and it tends to either run out of Archeops, Cinccinos, or energy before the game ends in many matchups. I don't think that the deck has what it takes to truly be a tier 1 deck.
While Jamming Tower is scary for Gardevoir and Control, I don't think it will be very popular. Many decks, like Dragapult and Miraidon, are heavily reliant on tools themselves and would never play such a card in the first place.
I don't think that there's really a reason to play SableZard anymore. It lost Klara to rotation already, and Lost Box now has Bloodmoon Ursaluna, so now you can effectively run RadZard and Greninja.
Iron Thorns doesn't work against Gardevoir. Just put Flutter Mane or Klefki in the active, and you can turn off Thorns's ability and win the game on the spot. The deck only beats Zard. It's definitely D Tier.
Also, don't forget that Greninja is weak to Gardevoir.
Arc Armorouge can one-shot Dragapult with Max Belt and 6 energy. With the amount of options it has, I think that Arc Armorouge has the potential to be a B Tier deck.
I messed up the order of actions against Dragapult. You Cress when they're up 5-6, you Gallade when they're up 4-5, and you Cress again when you're either down 3-4 or tied at 3 (depending on whether you KO'd Rotom). Then, you Gardevoir ex at 2-2 or 2-3 for one prize, evolving the damaged Kirlia, and close out the game with Scream Tail on a single prizer or Drifloon on the Dragapult ex. If they go for a single prize board while attacking with RadZard, you can Scream Tail around it, and often their only switch out was used to remove the Pult ex from play.
Also, pinging Tatsugiri with Munkidori can set up some multi-prize turns in the late game by continuously moving damage onto it.
Also, Gallade is just generally good in that matchup as it allows you to find Turo whenever you need it. For example, if they gust around your Gallade, you can just Buddy Catch for Turo to remove all the damage on it from play. You do need to turn attach once or twice to it in order to attack with it without it getting sniped on the bench by Dragapult, so be aware of that. It also sets up a second Gallade play if you so desire, as its attack will move an energy to a benched Kirlia that you can then evove into Gallade (or Gardevoir ex) and attack with.
Putting Mimikyu in the active spot early could be a strong play in this matchup, but it's probably not worth it as it will just become a liability in the late game and will clog up your bench. I need to test this more.
Thanks for such a detailed reply, I can tell you've put in the work with Gardevoir, and anyone who is trying to play it should read your comment! I haven't tested Gallade, but you're inspiring me to give it a try. I've found that if Dragapult runs Scoop up Cyclone and Turo the matchup can be a bit tricky sometimes, but it seems like most lists are playing Neo Upper now. I really like your point about Hyper Aroma allowing you to retreat to Flutter/Klefki turn one. You mentioned you think Flutter is fake though so are you still playing it?
On Lugia, I agree it can be inconsistent. If it wasn't then it's clear S tier to me, but I've found it sets up often enough to be a really powerful deck. With Iron Hands now it can also put so much pressure on decks that they can't really afford to KO chops some turns. - Ciaran
@@ShiftGearPodcast As regards retreating into something on the first turn, you usually retreat into Mimikyu. You can do so with Klefki, but Mimikyu is the primary target.
I've thought more about Klefki, and I don't think it's as good as I said. In most matchups, it's simply a win more card, and against the aggressive decks Mimikyu would work almost as well. However, it is still very strong against Snorlax, so for that reason alone it might be worth keeping. To beat stall, however, it might just be better to add another Turo or a 9th Psychic energy. I'm currently on the 9th energy train, as it allows you to prize one or two and still have a decent shot at winning, and, if you don't prize any, it allows you to bench Cresselia or Scream Tail as your 6th Pokemon and still be able to deal reasonable damage. And having the 9th energy just makes it easier to find enough to attack in the early game and gives you more draws with Greninja, as well as increasing your ability to retreat into Mimikyu turn 1 if necessary.
Everybody sleeping on Dipplin. Roseannes backup with Max Belt and 2 Swirlix with Luminous energy and the deck is INSANE. You run One vitality, one defiance, one choice and max belt and every single matchup feels favored. Even against dragapult with a 1 - 1 Rabsca line feels 50-50 at worst.
That sounds interesting, maybe I'll give it a try! Is there a list you've enjoyed using? I can see how the tools help the deck trade up! - Ciaran
@@ShiftGearPodcast Absolutely, here is the list I am using right now and I am doing very well with it.
Pokémon:
4 Applin TWM 17
4 Dipplin TWM 18
4 Grookey TWM 14
4 Thwackey TWM 15
2 Swirlix TWM 89
1 Rabsca TEF 24
1 Rellor TEF 23
Trainer:
4 Iono PAL 185
3 Professor's Research SVI 190
2 Boss's Orders PAL 172
1 Roseanne's Backup BRS 148
4 Buddy-Buddy Poffin TEF 144
4 Bug Catching Set TWM 143
2 Ultra Ball SVI 196
2 Switch SVI 194
2 Super Rod PAL 188
1 Counter Catcher PAR 160
1 Pal Pad SVI 182
2 Rescue Board TEF 159
1 Vitality Band SVI 197
1 Maximum Belt TEF 154
1 Defiance Band SVI 169
1 Choice Belt PAL 176
3 Festival Grounds TWM 149
Energy:
3 Basic {G} Energy SVE 1
2 Luminous Energy PAL 191
Luminous plus Swirlix is very nice to setup numbers and you do not care about being behind with this deck. It's just that good at coming back. You're also not bothered by not taking full KOs. I've won numerous games because the opponent ran out of pokemon to push that wouldn't get knocked out. You mainly want to avoid doing that with decks that play Turo. Control is by far the worst match up, Thwackey can get hard stalled way too easily.
@@ShiftGearPodcast if you do test the deck, let me know your thoughts. I’m still fine tuning the list. This is my 8th or 9th iteration of the deck so far.
Awesome, thanks for sharing! I'll give the deck a try! - Ciaran
@@ShiftGearPodcast
Pokémon: 8
1 Rabsca TEF 24
3 Thwackey TWM 15
4 Dipplin TWM 18
1 Radiant Venusaur PGO 4
1 Rellor TEF 23
3 Grookey TWM 14
4 Applin TWM 17
2 Swirlix TWM 89
Trainer: 17
3 Ultra Ball SVI 196
1 Vitality Band SVI 197
2 Switch SVI 194
2 Professor's Research SVI 190
1 Defiance Band SVI 169
4 Buddy-Buddy Poffin TEF 144
1 Counter Catcher PAR 160
4 Iono PAL 185
2 Super Rod PAL 188
1 Maximum Belt TEF 154
1 Pal Pad SVI 182
3 Nest Ball SVI 181
1 Rescue Board TEF 159
4 Bug Catching Set TWM 143
1 Roseanne's Backup BRS 148
2 Boss's Orders PAL 172
3 Festival Grounds TWM 149
Energy: 2
3 Basic {G} Energy SVE 1
2 Luminous Energy PAL 191
Total Cards: 60
Updated list. Greater consistency, the venasaur is on the board for potentially getting cut, but can bail you out early game if your hand is just terrible, but I find I only use it once every 8-10 games.
My contribution to the podcast can be counted on one hand and I hope to remain that way! Thanks for the shoutout, was fun making you sad a bit but you never say no to a random match. Markings of a great coach and person 🎉.
The Greninja deck actually goes kind of insane. I think putting in 1 Frogadier for when you hyper aroma off Irida works really well. I don't think it's top tier or even close, but it's sick for sure. The Palkia variant is probably better at this moment, however.
Palkia is interesting, and gives you something to do while you get ready. Definitely gonna be a fun rogue! - Ciaran
@@ShiftGearPodcast True! I think it can beat a lot of archetypes very easily with good play
Strange that the testing sentiment around Greninja has been generally made with the Froslass package, not Pidgeot or Palkia. Went 3-0 at locals vs Dragapult with the Pidgeot build. A few changes since and I'm regularly finding lines to a turn-2 attack. Barrage into active Rotom + bench is glorious. The DTE effect is disappointing, but still sets up TM Devo and BM Ursa. And you can offset the deck's own TM Devo weakness with Jamming Tower. Being able to Pidgeot out of Unfair Stamp is also a relief. Cheers!
A couple of people have told me I need to try the deck with Pidgeot now. I can see how that helps solve the issues with disruption. I think the Froslass package was to help the deck set up spread KOs, but maybe that isn't necessary. Barrage into Rotom does seem really strong, but I feel like most decks with Rotom play Manaphy? I'll have to give this build a try! - Ciaran
@@ShiftGearPodcast, I'm often yanking out Cologne unless the poor sap across prized or was slow to the Manaphy. Loving the early and open meta!
That's fair, I guess early game you aren't as likely to get disrupted so the cologne play is easier to pull off. I also love these early metagames where everything is less refined and viable! - Ciaran
for me, miraidon feels like a really good meta call. beats lugia, hands farms the single prize decks and with my current list i’m running 2 zapdos to hit 240 for the bolt match up
2 Zapdos could definitely be a play - Aneil
Thanks for the shout my guys ❤ lost pult has been so fun
Of course bro! You and Aneil have inspired me to give Lost Pult a try. - Ciaran
Minor correction in the Greninja ex topic: When doing the second attack, the attack still 120 to both Pokemon even when you discard the double turbo energy, since the energy is no longer on Greninja ex at that point.
I've been playtesting the Greninja ex deck with the Pidgeot version for quite a bit and was able to place 26th/199 going 5-2 in an online tournament. The fact that you can search your deck for any card gives you the flexibility to tech in any card (Eri, Enhanced Hammer, Lost City, TM Devo, Cologne, etc.) you want against a specific matchup, but you have to make the right metagame call in order to have success with it. There will be times where the you get a brick awkward hand. Greninja ex can have multiple roles, Greninja can be used as a hyper aggressive early game card, or can spread the damage and sneak in a TM Devolution.
Matchup wise, Greninja wins against Blissey, Dragapult (if you tech in Radiant Tserenna), Iron Thorns, Future Hands, Quad Iron Thorns, Snorlax Stall, Dipplin, and goes even against Raging Bolt/Ogerpon.
Overall, I would say Greninja would be upper C at best, due to having bad matchups like Gardevoir and Lugia/Cincinno.
It's a bug on PTCG Live that Greninja damage doesn't get reduced. Even though the energy comes off you do effects of attacks after damage. The Pidgeot does seem better to me, but I still feel like the deck is super susceptible to disruption. How have you been approaching the bolt matchup? It seems like they would have no problem streaming Kos. - Ciaran
@@ShiftGearPodcast If that's the case, then it drastically changes the Raging Bolt matchup. I can now see it be a 25:75 in Raging Bolts favor if Greninja is now dealing 100 damage to both Raging Bolts from the Duplicate Barrage from the Double Turbo energy.
Basically, I would use Duplicate Barrage to setup a 2HKO on both Raging bolts, while the player has to burn 5 energies to OHKO Greninja. I can use Eri to discard their Pal Pad/Energy Retrieval/Earthen Vessel and follow it up with an Iono to reduce their hand size. Once I knock out both their Raging bolts, my opponent would have all utility Pokemon, and it would take me two more turns to get the final knockout. For the most part, the opponent will have 2x Raging Bolts, 2x Ogerpons, Radiant Greninja, and Squawkabilly. Their field would have no energies and they would need a lot of resources to get that final knock out on the Pokemon.
That strategy seems pretty effective, but yeah it seems really tough if you can only do 100 at a time. Not really sure what you can tech to make the matchup better tbh. - Ciaran
Dialga actually got much better with Twilight. The new heatran is a literal nuke that’s easy to power up early for huge dents or clean up late game and if you flub your opening hand with it in the active you’re also getting burn damage which helps dialga because now you need less energy luck to hit high numbers. Hyper aroma gets you your Vstar and metangs for one card. It runs heavy Arven to grab rods and aroma with Carmine to get your bench set up easier turn 1. Then it’s basically just rods for energy retrieval and balls to grab whatever else you need bench wise. It’s really solid and more consistent now because you just need to find one arven and if your aroma isn’t prized you’re up and running turn 2.
That's actually pretty interesting. Having a one prize attacker that can trade in to two prizers is always good. My only pause would be it's hard to set up the Vstar attack and then set up Heatran since they both need a lot of energy. The Aroma does seem really good for consistency though! I'll have to play the deck some more, because it does seem promising! - Ciaran
do you have a list for this? do you see a space for blood moon in this
Thank you Aneil
Oh, your Japanese pronounciation was atrocious! But it's also understandable, it's not very obvious for English speakers!
@@InumaruPL Thank you! if it wasn't atrocious I'd be more concerned
Had to hit Subscribe to get the fellas to 800! Keep it up!
Ehhh, appreciate you 🙏
Hey @ciaran I played against you in LA regionals I was your round 3 match up it was a pleasure playing against you! 🙏
Was a pleasure playing against you as well! Sorry you had to Bidoof pass game one :( - Ciaran
@@ShiftGearPodcast no worries bro it happens however the next two games were really good games definitely a pleasure 😎
Not the hotdog ladies lmaoo
Shoutout dem dawgs - Aneil
thanks for signing my chien pao, with GShen, at LA ciaran!
No problem, it was great meeting another CPAO enjoyer! - Ciaran
gardevoir is definitely favoured into thorns lol, you just put fluttermane in active then turo it up
That is very true, I am putting thorns into D tier then lol - Ciaran
Do people just not know about 70 hp beldum?
I don't play Dialga so I wasn't aware. I'm going to blame Aneil on that one lol - Ciaran
ain’t no way twilight precon format was worse than scarvi base precon format. the latter was literally vivillion or bust. turn 1 donks everywhere
I didn't realize pre-releases have such a developed meta. I really got to try one out now lol - Ciaran
The absolute goats
Goated viewer!
Regidrago vstar copying dragapult ex is pretty sleeper
I've talked to a couple people and they've mentioned enjoying Regidrago. If the deck ever gets consistent energy acceleration I think it will be a force! - Ciaran
Have they actually played greninja?! DTE does NOT reduce the snipe damage since it’s an effect, not actually damage from an attack, hence Mist energy being able to block it…
It's a known bug on Live, dte reduces the damage to 100. An effect would be something like damage counters or your opponent can't retreat. Mist also doesn't block Greninja. - Ciaran
Fantastic Japanese, Aneil
Thanks man, Shift gear podcast welcome hi technique to you too
W giveaway
W winner
Thanks for the shout my guys ❤ lost pult has been so fun