A student presents his own dilemma to Frank!
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- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2024
- Recently, at the University of Texas in Dallas, this student asked a common question regarding God’s nature and power. Since God is all-powerful and some reject Him, isn’t He unloving for not forcing them to accept Christ, thereby, paving the way for an eternity in hell? This does not call into question God’s character. In fact, it reinforces it. Why doesn’t God use His power to save people? Listen to Frank’s answer here.
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God can certainly make a squircircle even change the order of all things, but He will not. God can do anything beyond and above. But He limits it to what is known and allows man the free will. Frank telling the man GOD can't is so wrong!!
You put down some amazing stuff. Ty.
@@sv8156 I totally agree with you but I understand what Frank is stating. GOD can’t do all those things is the fact that GOD did not do those things because it would contradict what GOD created.
The only thing that GOD cannot do is commit sin.
A little late to the party, but this is the one thing I don't think Dr. Frank Turek is right about. One, I'm a Calvinist. Two, his argument is being challenged well by this kid he just didn't capitalize on the points he was making in the moment. Would love someone on Frank's side to talk to about it in this comment section. So if you're seeing this please respond so you can help me talk through it. Thank you!
The Bible strictly depicts a flat, motionless, geocentric earth with a firmament containing everything...
1) "earth is fixed; immovable"...
Also, God stopped the sun and moon, which tells us the celestial lights in the sky are moving, not the earth (just as our God given senses tells us)
2) devil takes Jesus up on a mountain and shows Jesus ALL THE KINGDOMS... Not possible on a globe...
3) "circle of the earth"
This is basic shapes... I need not say more...
Also, the "heliocentric solar system" [Helios (Greek sun god) Sin Trick Soul Lure System] literally has satanic emblems and coding through out the design; as I just detailed in the name itself...
1) Google search: "how eclipses work"... It will show you a diagram... Keep that diagram in mind... 2nd Google search: "sigil of Lucifer"... It's literally the exact same design as "how eclipses are claimed to work on the ball earth model"...
2) ball earth is said to be tilted at a 23.4° angle... 90° - 23.4° = 66.6°...
Good on this young man to admit he has doubts on certain things. We can't hide or run from doubts as Christians, we need to face them and love God and use our mind.
God is so desperate for love he won't allow people to think for themselves if they want to go to heaven. That's called a despot.
@@brianpeterson8908 How did you come to that conclusion?
@@jasonbryan3135 try to overcome your brainwashing and you will understand.
@@brianpeterson8908 ...What?? First of all, to say that God is desperate implies that He needs something. The whole point of the gospel message is that God needs nothing from us, yet He chose to save us anyway, from our sin. Also, how did you come to the conclusion that God prevents people from thinking freely? I really see no base to this argument.
@@brianpeterson8908 I just want to make you aware of something - You made a claim and backed it with zero evidence and then went on to insult me. Either you’re interested in having an honest conversation or you’re just here to hurl insults at those who think different than you. How did you come to the conclusion that I’m brainwashed? Are you able to see into my mind and determine that the things that I know lead me to be brainwashed?
I admire the student's willingness to learn and Frank's patience to the boy.
The student is troubled by Frank's worldview . Hopefully he will spot the underlying fallacies in Franks argument.
@@JamesRichardWiley I have recently began to lean toward the Calvinistic view. Can you please expand on the fallacies you see, please?
@@JamesRichardWiley Yeah it was a struggle listening to Frank’s non biblical approach lol smh
@@mattyounts9400 An all-knowing, all-powerful, all-good God would know what it would take for each person to believe in Him. That he doesn't provide that individually (if He truly wants everyone to be saved) makes me doubt if He truly is all-powerful, all-knowing, all-good and wants everyone to be saved.
Yah. Too bad Turek doesn't have a clue...
I love how quick witted Frank is. He wastes no time getting to the point.
Holy Spirit
@@lightningrt434when you debate with someone, dosent your voice raise up ever so slightly?
besides the only thing a voice of high tone does is just.
high tone.
if you keep thinking about the tone of the voice only and your interpretation of their intention, then your intellect is far too low for debates such as these.
@joeturner9219 This is often what people say when they reject God. What's interesting is that their obsessions mixed with their current belief system is like belief in a god, but they just don't know it. Although they reject God, they still believe various things that require just as much faith...
@lightningrt434 of course when you hear the same objections over and over again, you’ll have the same (appropriate) responses to those objections. This doesn’t make Frank disingenuous or arrogant. It simply means he is prepared, as anyone should be, especially when it’s their profession.
Can you give specific rebuttals to his arguments?
@spencergsmith Agree. Anyone with a decent amount of debate skills does the same. Athiest do it just the same. Frank is not perfect, but he is good at this sort of discussions.
My wife and I just saw Dr. Turek two nights ago live. One thing he said that should be an encouragement to all of us who sometimes doubt is that those who claim they do not ever doubt, he would worry if they were truly saved. But, on the other hand, he said that those who DO doubt are most likely saved. Our emotions, he continued, are always going up and down every day, depending on our day. On good days, we are absolutely certain Christianity is true, on bad days, we can wonder if He exists, and if He does, where the heck is he? Can't He see I need Him now?! The Truth hasn't changed, just our emotions.
I agree. In The Fainting Warrior, C. H. Spurgeon does an excellent job of explaining this seeming contradiction. I would call it a paradox. You can watch/listen on YT and I would also recommend reading it too.
You don’t realize how much I needed to be reminded of this. God Bless.
“Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: “So I swore in My wrath, ‘They shall not enter My rest,’ ” although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His. Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience. Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.”
Hebrews 4:1-3, 9-11, 14-16 NKJV
The fact that people doubt their faith because what they are believing in is down right uncertain
Do you believe God is emotional?
These are the interactions I love - where someone is bringing forward a challenge, but not an attack. He really wanted to know the answer rather than to destroy. God bless that young man.
I recognise the thoughtproces of the student. Something that helped me to solve that 'dilemma' is to realise that having knowledge about something doesn't mean you caused it. The dilemma of God having knowledge about what a free human being is going to decide before making a decision could be solved by realising that a decision of a human being is free, but not arbitrary. The complexity that still remains in that is something God can solve with His infinite intellect.
Specially because what happens in the moment of judgement is preceded by my other things. A person doesn't just go to hell, there's a life before it, there are choices, there are thoughts, feelings, decisions, thousands and thousands of decisions before a human ends up before the throne of God to be judged, and we often forget about that when we think about God sending people to hell.
Another way I reconciled this is in order for our universe and creation to exist, God must be outside of the constraints we are held to in order for it to have come into existence in the first place. If God is outside of Time for example, then he still knows what we will do and choose, beginning to end. The hard part is coming to grips with the fact that some will still go to hell, yet were created anyways, however God doesn't create anything without a purpose and will get glory irrespective. We are just so self absorbed in this universe, we often forget the perspective and how small we really are - notice I said small but not irrelevant, Jesus paid an unbelievable price to give us the gift of salvation.
But doesn't Frank belief God created everything? Didn't he create every human knowing that they would go to hell? Couldn't he have chosen to not create them, knowing that they would end up in eternal torment?
I definitely recognize the "thought process" too (of the student's question). I've been there. But it is small and immature. It comes from a stance on a soapbox, if you will - in most cases trying to hide the idea that the questioner would do things differently if he were God. This notion can be brought into the light sometimes if simply asked the question, "why do you ask?" They usually can't answer, but will attempt. Then they can be asked, "are you, by asking the original question, saying that if you were God you would do it differently?". Our misunderstanding of God's sovereignty can surface in so many ways. We must always remember that God's way is the perfect way. His is always the perfect answer.
@@dankessel9799 _"We must always remember that God's way is the perfect way."_
How do you know? Are you, by asking this question, saying that you would do things this way if you were God? Are you putting yourself in a place of sovereignty to make this judgement?
GOD simply cannot be comprehended in his entirety by a limited concious mind; we are nowhere close to understand the ways of *GOD.*
Yes, it is worthy to remember it.
Yes absolutely agree with you
@@loveandideas7826 Sorry. What is worthy to be remembered, If I may ask?
@@memastarful Yes. I am about to ask a very personal question. If I may ask, is that you in the profile pic? If yes, why would you apply such a vibrant appearing lipstick? Just curious to know. Thank you.
To remember that God is big and we don't know Him completely.
I like this young man's attitude while trying to grasp some very thought provoking truths. Well done to you!
We should not turn off our brain. But at the same time understand that in matters spiritual the intellect has it's place but it's not paramount. And don't fall into the trap of creating an idol of your intellect.
It's okay to not believe what you can't see, but greater is he that doesn't require seeing to believing. We can know Jesus Christ is proven because tho' slain for preaching the gospel, his disciples were mostly all beheaded too, for centuries hunted, it DID come to pass ALL that the Lord prophesied, HIS WORDS REACHING ALL CORNERS OF THE EARTH, that saints would reign w/ him ABOVE ALL in a "prepared place" until "Old Devils" are loose IN THE END one last time, so much has come to fruition, won't it also come to fruition LAST DAY "7ths" that do not "OVERCOME" will indeed "go into the belly of the earth"? 🔥
As an agnostic, I would love to talk for hours with this man.
I'm sure it would be among the most Interesting conversations I would ever have.
The best person to talk is Jesus
@@samuelsarbah3050
Yeah, too bad he's not a "person".
If he was a person, I would love to have a chat with him about all sorts of stuff though.
@@magnumopus1628 You don't need to see before
Just ask him anything
@@samuelsarbah3050
And how exactly would he answer?
@@magnumopus1628 He will answer you
Just tell him you want to know Him
Pick up his word and believe and obey it for just a week
What an awesome conversation and a humble willingness to admit one’s unbelief. We should all be willing to admit our doubts; not to challenge God but to grow closer to Him. I also love Frank’s answer at the end about free will vs predestination and how God uses both. I’d love to see him talk more about that specific topic.
I think what a lot of christians get wrong is this false thinking that believing in god automatically means worshipping god. It doesn't. Believing in god and worshipping god are two different things. It's very possible for a person to believe in god and at the same time that same person doesn't worship god.
Somehow, I don't have doubts. I always believe that everything happens for a reason. If you think in that way, then you don't have to doubt anything anymore. If I have issues to solve (whether health or financial or relationship), I always look for the learnings that I can learn from the experience. What is God trying to teach me here? It's always about the learnings.
I’ve been asked this question many times, and I’ve come to the conclusion that the word ‘can’t’ trips people up. I think the more simple word is chooses. God chooses to give freedom therefore he chooses not to allow illogical results which ultimately gives glory to His nature which is Just and Good. Example, if someone writes a story with an ending causing confusion going against the literary rules, no glory goes to the writer.
It seems people don't immediately connect the logical impossibilities together. You can't make a square circle, because if it was a circle, that's what it would be - not a square. Similarly, God could of course force us to do whatever he wanted, but then we wouldn't have free will. These things are mutually exclusive.
@@therawlifefamily I always thought God being omniscient and omnipotent means he can do anything. So, if he can't make a square circle because it's not logical, would you say God is bounded by the laws of logic?
@@enriquethegreat7847 He isn’t bound by the laws of logic, He IS logic. He is NOT illogical, but neither is He bound by logic, because He is the creator of these laws. He is what His attributes are and anything outside of that is not God. In order for something to be, there must be something it is not. Being illogical would limit God’s other attributes. And since He is perfect, He cannot be imperfectly anything else.
@@enriquethegreat7847 God is logic and reality. We didn’t make logic. To say “is he bound by laws of logic” implies our logic, which is subjective. That being said, God is capable of all things besides contradiction. That’s the best way to put it. Logical contradiction is a universal no no. If you are free, you can not be forced at the same time. If you are a midget, you cannot be a giant at the same time.
God could easily alter this, and change the meaning of words.
But if the words are what they are, he cannot contradict himself or anything. Because then it would be a paradox. Can’t make a square also a circle, because then it would’ve not been square, or is not square. Now it’s just a circle
Unless God changes it’s meaning. Then a square is a a circle, and not a square, because circle means angle
@@clementine7655 thank you for your answers. I was stuck
With all that being said, My mind is still boggled by it all. I think Frank said this before, "We can apprehend these things but we may never comprehend them". To think our human minds are capable of comprehending these ideas fully is irrational. Trust God.. you don't have to understand everything he does completely.
I love how Frank explains apologetics in a simplistic fashion. Does he always nail it, no, but he does a pretty good job most the time.
I agree, but frank has not studied the great theologians. He’s not standing on the shoulders of giant, and trying to reinvent the wheel on certain question. This question of the will has been decisively answered in the first century christian by Augustus in a debate with Pelagius. Our will is not free because it is enslaved by sin. And we are dead to sin.
I was wrestling with something similar to this yesterday. Why would God send someone to hell for rejecting His gift? Because the GIFT they are rejecting literally IS forgiveness and mercy.
So God decides for you to come into this world and, instead of coming here in peace you're essentially coming as a sinner because of the sins of a guy who you never knew and without repenting and worshipping him you're going directly to hell.. so are the billions of people who live in the Muslim, Hindu, Sikh and all other worlds a social experiment to see if they can do the impossible by seeking forgiveness for something they don't even know and for people they never even met or recognized? So much for free will.
Amen. That's why rejecting Christ is the unforgivable sin. There's no way to be forgiven for our sins but through Christ alone who paid for our sins.
@@skeptickenyan If you go to Hell, it's for your own sins and rejection of Christ, not anyone else's. That applies to us all equally. You may have inherited a sin nature but you still chose to sin. Crime demands justice. But God made the way of mercy through Jesus sacrifice for you. If you don't want mercy for the wrongs you've done in life, you'll get justice. That's your choice.
Right.... If you insist you are not guilty and reject the offer of a pardon for your crime you don't get the pardon....
Yah that's pretzel logic. One problem, jesus never ventured outside a 100 mile radius. So god by not giving his 'son' (LMAO) an airplane missed 99.999999999% of the world and condemned them to hell. God knows no mercy because there is no god.
“An honest politician” 😂
Franks ability of reasoning and logic is quite astounding id love to he able to articulate arguments like this. Lightening fast too. The water to wine vine analogy was awesome 🤦♂️😅
Frank "how is it illogical to turn water to wine?" Turek 😂😂😂😂
I wish these videos were much longer. I could use some of this content to listen to while I'm working and doing other tasks. Frank, can we make that happen?
Check out his podcast or download the cross examined app
Frank is truly gifted. Love listening to him
If pretzel logic and lies are your thing, sure.
@@brianpeterson8908 How did u come to that conclusion?
Michael Heiser, another level of detail. Frank is not that knowledgeable.
All he did here was apply Mollinism.
@@einarabelc5 I’m not a fan of heiser
We mortal humans cannot fathom the power, grace, love and necessity of God's ways.... including me. But I accept everything through the utmost faith in him. He IS THE King of All Kings, and MY Righteous Father. He has never let me down. His love and even disciplines for me make me who I am. And I'm so thankful for this gift of life, but certainly looking forward to the next. Thank You Yahuah, Thank You Yeshuah ! What an adventure!
"I saw a wino eating grapes. I said dude you have to wait."
(Mitch Hedberg)
"All Jesus did was speed it up."
(Frank Turek)
Imagine the size of the Venn diagram of people who know who both Frank and Mitch are lol. There are at least two of us!
@@ghostgate82 Me, too! ✋
@@__.Sara.__ The obscure, albeit good-taste gang is growing! 🙌🏻
@@ghostgate82 Me five.
@@ghostgate82 I'd also be in the diagram but only because of your comments....haha. Looked him up and checked the vids on youtube.
Excellent exchange. Thank you, Frank!
Thank you Dr Turek .
I am so grateful ...
Now that I have grown spiritually .. I can discuss to others my testimony and what I've experienced learned. I value my relationship with Jesus more than anything. My children and Jesus are by far the 2 things I cherish the most.
Jesus and my children.
I used to think of God's omnipotence the same way the questioner might have understood it. Hearing statements like "there are things God can't do" was like heresy to me. But it's when I dived into apologetics that I realized that saying that does not undermine God's nature.
God can't be God and not be God at the same time.
It's a beautiful to thing to realize that God cannot lie and doesn't even want to. The simplest thing that people do every day that's also wrong, God cannot because He's good. I find much comfort in God's limitations to sin and evil.
@@maow9240 God has laws - He will not break those laws Himself. He gave us free will and will not take it back. Just because I knew you would read this - does not mean I made you read it.
Something that is logically impossible means that our own definitions are contradicting themselves, not God's character. If something is logically impossible it's because it creates a logical paradox.
I think most people are confusing it with metaphysical impossibility. That's bound by the laws of nature or statistics. God is fully capable of defying nature and he has and does.
When logical impossibility happens, it's not because God is bound by anything. Rather our logic is so limited by itself that it seems as if God is limited
That does make me wonder about the Trinity and God being fully 3 persons but also 1. I'm curious if that's a logical impossibility
I'm glad this young man have the chance to meet Frank and get his question answered.
I really like this channel, a lot of the questions I’ve seen are ones that I’ve had myself. (If someone sees this please pray for me I could use it rn)
Amen! Even if I already know it, or think I do, hearing Frank talk about it always re-strengthens me and my understanding, and braces me up! 🖖🖖🖖🖖🖖
His Grace Be With You. and John 20:22
This guy's facial expressions are amazing lol
Frank, excellent video. You really have gift for this.
Great explanation and examples given. I love how you think Frank! Peace of Christ be with you!
God has given free will and hence if People reject God. He can't do anything about it.
But about people who couldn't get the exposure to Christianity or Jewish way of God's Doctrine. They can still enter heaven, even if they don't believe in God creation or laws. Cause i believe God would be fair to them and judge them based on what they knew.
@@kaberigomes2117 yes so true, and he knows their heart, for those that have been given the good news and reject it they are without excuse! But those that have not heard the good news they will be judged by their heart.
Christ says he came not to bring peace but a sword.. have you even read the bible?
@@kaberigomes2117 you have free will... *THE BOSS INSISTS* LOL you simple sheep are so sad.
@@kaberigomes2117 right, the Bible says we will only be accountable for what we know. But having said that, every single person was given a conscience, standard equipment in every one of us that God can still use to determine if the heart of a person is with him or against him.
So many Christians without the capability to communicate like Frank have turned so many people away from God... this guy's got the spark🙏❤🇺🇲
I understand what you're saying. There are many Christians who don't know how to contend for the faith. But it's also unfair to say they "turned people away from God" as if they have any authority to do so.
God loves people so much that he will continue to reach out to an individual until they respond with a yes or completely harden their heart. An individual turns away from God of their own choice.
I do agree however that Christians everywhere should know what they believe and why they believe it. However, we're all gifted in different ways. Frank is gifted in this kind of apologetics.
There could be a old Christian grandma who's type of "apologetics" is making someone a hot meal, letting them vent their hearts and giving them both godly wisdom and godly unconditional love.
We're all part of one body. Different body parts but all one in Christ. If you want to defend the faith... ask God for wisdom and he WILL give it to you. ❤❤❤
God bless you!
This is what helps me when I have questions with no answers. Big questions...questions that we aren't told anything about in scripture, this is the answer.
Genesis 18:25
"Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?
perhaps you should ask "who wrote the gospels" MM L and J were names added by the church and the gospels are anonymous and we have no originals
@@SNORKYMEDIA
2 Timothy 3:16
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness"
God wrote the Bible.
And the Dead Sea Scrolls are proof that the Bible we have today, is the one they had back then. But that's not your issue. Your issue is It wouldn't matter what "evidence" you were given, you still wouldn't believe.
Luke 16:31
"And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
That's the boat your in, the one that even if someone rose from the dead, you still wouldn't believe. And that's because faith isn't about facts, it's about heart. And that faith can only be given to you by God, so if you lack it, and you don't believe, it's because He hasn't given it to you. The only thing you could do really is throw yourself upon the mercy of God. But if you keep looking for issues your going to find them, because satan leads you in that deception. No one can come to Christ unless God draws them...
John 6:44
"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."
So if you find yourself in that position, it's a very sorry state to be in. All these little petty issues you have problems with I do not, and I'm grateful that I dont. But I've accepted that and believed on the answers given to us in scripture, and you haven't. Stop looking for a key to fit the right lock that opens the door for yourself, it don't work like that, and neither does God.
Seek God, and ask for mercy for your unbelief.
Good on this man to honestly search for the truth and understanding of our creator. He's trying to learn Jah's heart and Frank as a good teacher is helping impart that to him. Beautiful exchange I wish more people questioned things as an honest student and wish we had more teachers who really desire to spread truth to those who seek.
God can do anything He wants, regardless of it conforms with our human "logic" or not. God bless you all.
God conform to logic,he is bound to nothing but himself,God is Logic,God cant make 1+1=5
@@ManlyServant He can't? Who's he gonna answer to if he decided to flip the script? You?
@@ManlyServant temporal logic as far as you can obtain it/learn it dies with your corporeal form. God bless. God is not logic. He simply is. He condescends to us by sending the LOGOS (or divine logic) into human form. As the heavens are higher than the earth so are His ways and thoughts higher than ours. Who can declare his works? They are unfathomable to the human intellect.
@@tonywolfemusic5920 God CANNOT make "married bachelor",God CANNOT make square-circle,God CANNOT make 1+1=3,stop lying to your God-given intellect,God is logic,he is bound to nothing but himself,which mean he is bound to logic
@@tonywolfemusic5920 if you believe logic can be different,then you should just believe whatever you want,you should not have any standard in reading the Bible,you can just believe whatever you want it to say by twisting the common reasoning in your logic,you would not have any standard for reasoning
Great discussion! It's the classic "Why would a good and loving God send anyone to hell" or "If God's all-loving, why isn't everyone saved vs. only some?" questions at the root of this young man's "dilemma."
Because the all loving God is only a facet of His nature. People forget his holiness and justice towards sin.
@@ninjason57 Amen! MOST of our questions (as human beings) are about God's attributes and character, not of His mere existence (if we're honest). Listen to the ROOT of most questions that people ask, and peel back the layers? They can't wrap their minds around those things... for instance, His all-consuming love vs. His absolute holiness.
I love these videos. I’ve seen them all multiple times so it’s nice to get some new ones.
Because God is Just, Holy and Perfect, He CANNOT let sin go unpunished. As Frank Turek explains, people like Atheists and of other false religions choose to reject Christ or never hear of Christ because God knows ALL counter factuals and these people would NEVER have accepted Christ given ANY circumstance or reality given.
Having doubts or dilemmas doesn't mean we don't have faith. It just means that, the deeper we go into God's wisdom, there will be more things we will encounter that requires deeper understanding. Not all of us have the same level of understanding.
-For example, when the student mentioned the virgin Mary. This was something that I couldn't grasp until I realized that Mary being a virgin, meant being innocent and never had sex (obviously lol), which symbolizes purity. Not necessarily meaning that Mary was or was not still a virgin after Jesus's birth.
I'm sure there are other thought processes of "the virgin Mary", but this was one of my understanding hurdles since it really was never explained to me.
@That Fellow, Christian Oh wow, I didn't know that. I guess we can say God likes to use impossible scenarios to create things. Like God using Abraham and Sarah as the beginning of the Israelites and start the blood line to Jesus. Using an old couple that can not have children to show how great He is. Perfect Segway to Jesus by using an impossible (for humans) scenario and making it possible and that faith is a big factor on our part [individually]. 🤯
Jesus had brothers and sisters, so Mary was not a virgin (by definition of not having had sex) after Jesus' birth, but scripturally she was with Jesus' birth
(I know the catholics probably all call her the virgin mary, from their standpoint they probably wish to use that to symbolize purity, but strictly speaking in terms of word definitions, it wouldn't be the case after as none of Jesus' siblings birth are mentioned as being supernatural)
John 3:16-21 NASB
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. [18] *He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.* [19] This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. [20] For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. [21] But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God."
Notice there was no Bible verse offered to say God can't overcome man's freewill. Because Frank made that up.
Can you offer a Bible verse were God says he would.overcome man's freewill?
@@scruffmcgruffthecrimedawg5661 Like or not, the Bible offers many verses that "overcome man's freewill". Get to know Him and you may understand His sovereignty.
To help answer, though you insincerely ask, start with Romans 9:18-21. Now go in peace.
@@uview1 so they ask a question. That doesn't show god exercising his power over free will
I think the better way to address this is by saying that the Lord puts limits on His power, meaning (like Frank said) that He will not use His power to MAKE us love Him.
Now, don't get me wrong, the Lord can (and sometimes does, think nebecaneza and pharoe) make it very hard to disobey or obey Him, respectively, but in almost all cases He will give each one of us everything we need to come to a saving faith (so we are without excuse at our judgement).
Most people know but do not want to believe and follow, because the cost of discipleship (living exclusively for the Lord before anything/one else) is more than they are willing to do. His love comes regardless, but our salvation is highly conditional!
In Christ,
Andrew
I’m going to be honest , I hope and pray the young man understood the answers Dr. Frank Turek was giving and that with his free will he can indeed understand how God’s love and eternal decree does not contradict free will at all but instead is complimentary to it.
I totally get where the kid is coming from. If God can defy logic and perform miracles on people/nature, then why doesn't he use that power to defy logic and save his creation? If he created us, he no doubt has the ability to save us, but he WANTS us to love Him. The ultimate way we can show God our love is to trust and follow Him, something that He allows us to choose to do because of how much He loves us. What's better, a machine loving you with no free will, or a free entity who chooses to love you? He loves us enough to give us the free will to make that choice.
Keep in mind that many great Bible teachers, Theologians and Christians disagree with Turek on this point. Yes God can violate the laws of nature, but also that yes God can step in and violate/change my heart, my will and desire. God doesn't need my permission to save me and God doesn't fail at trying to save the people that He wants to save.
@Lucas seattle Why would it be "unnecessary" suffering? How do you know that God doesn't have morally sufficient reasons for allowing suffering in the world?
You mentioned it being petty and selfish, but petty and selfish according to what or who's standard?
@Lucas seattle You said that it's the job of an Evangelist to persuade you, but that's not true. At least not from a Biblical Christian perspective. Christians are to preach the Gospel and declare God's word. And yes we are called to give an answer for what we believe, but it's between you and God whether you repent and put your trust in Him or not.
You also said that "we" don't know if God exists. But there are how many billion people in the world? How do you know that no one knows if God exists or not. You can say that YOU don't know, but you can't speak for other people.
Also, you are wrong, God never "begs" us. Can you show me in scripture where God begs for us?
And yes, God is all knowing an created all things that come to pass.
@Lucas seattle I don't expect you to share the same level as faith/trust as me.
@Lucas seattle Logic has no faith in it to change people's human thoughts. God'woe speak to Our hearts &, Spirit within those who are Believing there is a better way to live & the Lord Jesus has opened up a truth . 2 Cor4:18 So we fix our eyes on what is seen but what is unseen ( Faith) since what is seen is temporary so that which is unseen is eternal.
I disagree, God turns the hearts of men. God is sovereign and can do as He wills.
Proverbs 21:1
Right, and He is not willing for any to perish. And yet we know many will perish.
@@MarkNOTW man is incapable of choosing God first. God has to open the heart first.
God chooses who's heart He will open, the rest will perish.
The blood of Jesus is a freely given gift to all. That doesn't mean that all shall willingly receive the gift.
Behold I stand at the door and knock and if anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in.
It is a calvinistic theological philosophy to reckon that someone is pre-destined to be saved or not, but it's not a biblically sound doctrine.
It's pre-known by God which names are in the book of life, but that isn't the same as those records being pre-determined by God's decision. That's a shirking of accountability. That mindset is like saying I was chosen above others because I'm somehow more deserving of salvation.
There will be a lot of saved Christians, running around in the millennium, with no crowns and no robes and no city, that aren't necessarily going to be happy and fulfilled for that thousand year period.
Probably the biggest group of them will be the ones who spent a lifetime idolizing the righteousness of their own works.
Remember, there's not one of us worthy of salvation and our flesh is still condemned to destruction.
Read up on the topic of the judgement seat of Christ that we face. It's not the same as the white throne of judgement before the Father that the unsaved face but it still has consequences.
We should all be fearful of it and weighing our own faithfulness.
@@JP-ec9rl people are predestined to be saved and others not. The Bible says so.
@@JP-ec9rl God makes th heart willing to accept the blood of Christ. It's not possible for a spirituality dead person to make a lifesaving choice to follow God without the intervention of God.
Man is to vile and wicked, his darkened heart can't choose godly goodness that honours God.
Frank's reasoning is so full of holes.
I hope the kid continues to pursue his questions because they weren't answered here.
OF COURSE DEAR THE GOSPEL OF JESUSCHRIST IS THE POWER THAT IS CHANGING THE WORLD⏳🌎⌛📖👈😌☝
I get more good out of Mr. Turek in a short videos than I have a lifetime in various churches.
1:49 Frank, you make the same fatal mistake that CS Lewis made shortly after converting. He said that God was bound by some moral features, such as good and justice. You say it is "logic" which binds God. Then you worship a god called "Logic" and you relegate the Christian God to a creature status, bound by a feature of Creation. NO!!! Logic is what it is because of how God chose to be. He is not bound by it. His nature defines it by his own choice apart from Creation. The same with good and justice. They are what they are only because God has chosen to be those ways in regards to the moral faculty of goodness and justice. The nature of goodness and justice as the content of the two are defined by God's own choice of how he is in his own character. Please be careful to get this right for the sake of these young students. I hope you read the comments. CS Lewis realized his mistake and corrected it by the time he wrote Mere Christianity.
''Angels on side line baffled and confused, ''father blessed them all with reason,....and this is what they choose''....
Which angels? The 1/3 that turned from God or the other 2/3?
Man laughed as they are no different.
Frank-: God can't force free creatures to do what he wants !
Lord :( as Saul was on his way to Damascus to kill, round up and to persecute Christians)
Stopped Saul with a great Flash of light and changed Saul's heart and mind instantly.
God gets all the Glory, credit 💯%
It is a gift from God
No one should boast.
Exodus 14:4
God hardened Pharaohs heart, so he would chase the Israelites. And God's glory would be manifested or shown through Pharaoh and the Egyptians will know that I am the Lord
is this an argument he is wrong? God understood that Saul would accept Christ as he was a Jew. Certain people believe through specific situations. take the apostles of Jesus. they only started following Jesus on account he turned water into wine. a specific situation. they were not understanding God at that point. but they believed what they saw. Now with the Pharaoh. You could argue God did not forcefully harden his heart, but the creation of Pharaoh through his own choosing hardened his heart towards God and would never change.
@@gjeacocke if God Almighty can change the worst sinner in the world. Per Apostle Paul
Tim 1:15
Instantly and a great flash of light.
And the Lord is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow
Heb 13:8
Who are you to question Gods love and ability towards mankind
You despise the word of God
Exodus 9:12
Stands also as Gods word
@@bobcatdrums what? I thought your comment was challenging Mr Turek? becuase you quoted that Godf doe snot force yet you quoted two characters that 'appears' to be forced. I was not against God. please re read my comment.
@@gjeacocke
Turek reported that God does not force or inspired to love. Force is a strong word to say compared to inspire or motivate. No worries
@@bobcatdrums perhaps it is atheists that MISUNDERSTAND preachers. they usually say 'stop FORCING Jesus' onto us. are we really forcing Jesus onto unbelievers or SHARING a story they may not have heard?
I think the questioner had some misunderstanding about "logical" and "miracles" at some part I hope got it all together
Miracles don't exist, it's only god of the gap.
If God knows what people are going to do how can they be said to have free will?
And then again according to Christians he did a lot relatively (ie set foot on Earth) to influence Christians 2,000 years ago but nothing since.
I love the bit that Jesus just sped up the course of water and wine!
"He can't create an honest politician"
The utter shade, lol.
Not really, more like pot meet kettle. Frankie can't quit lying especially about atheists.
Too sum it up: there are an infinite amount of choices for us to make, good or bad. And with those choices we make there are an infinite amount of consequences that are a result of those choices and God knows the outcomes of them all.
_"God knows the outcomes"_
Well when a God is responsible for ALL the factors involved in decision making ie genetics , & external influences and had the power to change any of them knowing the consequences in advance yet chose not to, then GOD is ultimately responsible. Not just that we also have multiple examples of God interfering in man's decisions in the bible narative and then punishing him for doing the things he made him do 🤔🤔
Fortunately the God of biblical narratives exists nowhere except the mind of the uneducated , indoctrinated theist.
Oh Frank you’re in error! People like to deny Calvinism but that’s the correct view in this.
@@wma5440 John 3:16 says "whoever believes". Then who will believe? Romans 9, John 6, Ephesians 1 says the predestined will believe, so John 3:16 doesn't favor your view.
About 2 Peter 3:9, in verse 8, Peter says, “But do not overlook this one fact, beloved,” making it clear that he is specifically addressing the Christian church. Then, he writes that “the Lord… is patient toward ”’you”’, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.”
@@wma5440 Already respond to that. Ephesians 1, Romans 9 teach predestination.
@@wma5440 What is adoption by God? to be sons of God. We can be sons of God when Christ by His blood saved us. So if we're predestined for adoption, then that means we're predestined for salvation.
That Romans 9 interpretation has many problems. Where it says that is about ancestery? Clearly mentions that God loves the predestined for salvation, and hates the reprobates. Then it says that the reprobates are "vessels of wrath prepare for destruction". How then is fitting with your claim?
@@wma5440 The Bible is clear that all people are God’s creation (Colossians 1:16), but only those who are born again are children of God (John 1:12; 11:52; Romans 8:16; 1 John 3:1-10).
Also did you see the end of the verses that you brought? The right to become children of God is not by human will but God's will. We don't choose God, God chooses us.
@@wma5440 The same failing arguements. who are those who will confess with their mouths? The predestined
I already demonstrated with biblical evidence predestination like the calvinist believed. You haven't brought nothing in your favor.
He can’t create 🤷♂️. 💯 true. I knew there’d be something I could agree with Turek
God cannot force anyone to love Him, but he can change heart of anyone so the person will love Him :)
I like his explanation of the, you can't make a square circle. The definition of a circle means it's not a square, and if it was a square, you wouldn't call it a circle - coupled with the water to wine argument I think he could have said he turned water into wine and called it wine, just like he could turn a circle to a square, but won't call that square a circle - it's not a logical contradiction to turn water to wine - he can turn anything to anything else, but you have to call it what it was changed into, not what it previously was.
The kid's reasoning was off. I sum it up a different way. God is omnipotent, not omniable. I made the word up, it just means He is not able to do anything impossible by definition. Raise from the dead, omnipotent. Make the number 3 an even number, omniable. I guess I shouldn't be surprised the kid conflated the two, but that shouldn't be the case if one actually thinks critically about it.
The 'all-knowing' vs. 'all-causing' question is a big one. Though a limited analogy, as a teacher, I always saw it like this: when a test or assignment comes up, I provide as much of a foundation as I can to give students the opportunity to succeed, whether it's through work leading up to the task, written feedback, and time for meetings to build on clarity. I cannot force students to take full advantage of all I offer, and when the test comes around, I often have a good idea of who will do well and who will struggle. I don't cause students to perform below expectations (I hope not at least!), but based on a professional understanding of my students, I can still predict fairly accurately.
Like I said, this is a limited analogy that's strict to knowing vs causing. Not meant to be read with i.e. the implications of "earning" one's way to God
The only difference is you are not him. He created everything. He designed and created all causes and effects in this whole world. He designed and created us, and our human nature, too. So he's testing his own creations that he designed and created. And at the same time he well knows it's results, too, exactly. Not only exactly he knows the results but also exactly knew before the tests or even before he created us, too.
@@tTtt-ho3tq yes I agree, but what is the problem with that?
@@rickydevmj
Isn't that the whole thing? As I said before, he created everything, this universe, everything in it, the other of nature, nature itself. And he makes no mistakes or there's no unexpected consequences. He can foreseen everything. He can design and fine tune it accordingly. There's no surprise or no oh I didn't see that coming either. But maybe just me. It's always just me anyways so ...
Imagine a storywriter having sovereign over the story he writes, but the characters in his story has free will within the story realm. While it is entirely possible for the author will anything into existence within the story, the fact that the characters can act based on their own rationality makes it good (referring to genesis 1:31). We know what a good story is when we see it, we know what a bad story is when we see it. Free will is also 1 of the factors for it to be good, logic and justice are also another factors of it
Can we pray for God to soften hearts and make them like good soil so the those hearts are receptive to The Gospel?
Freewill choose life, why wouldn’t you.
Deuteronomy 30:19
"I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;"
Philippians 4:13
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me."
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." - Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
This is definitely true, but another this can be modified into another true statement:
"In the beginning free will was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
In my experience, most Atheists and Agnostics fall into one or both of these camps.
Either way, I did bring my towel.
if you have a free will to choose your beliefs ,please sincerely do not believe anymore in christianity just for a couple of seconds,can you do that?
I would love to believe we have an eternal life in heaven or hell but I cannot choose to believe it.
Everything a person says or does is a lie, and that's the truth.
@@antichrist_revealed so you are lyin and Im lying too ,which means you are telling the truth while lying😂😂😂
@@Mysterychannel12 Yea, you get. Just think, we were created in their image.
This kid has such a brilliant brain that i dont think you fully utilized your time with him, i would love to see an hour or 2 long conversation between you 2 where you both have the time to think, i feel you are limited in these events as you cant fully express how deep your knowledge base is, but you managed to explain really well in a condensed fashion, but i still think that this question and answer could be stretched on massively between you two!
Everytime I watch these my mind goes 🤯
That's a college student? I'll give him the credit for being nervous. Good question though.
This is bordering on Deism (the idea that God set the creation in motion and no longer interferes with it).
"Natural law" is just the description of what man has discovered about the creation.
God is omnipotent, He can do anything: "with God nothing is impossible". I think the idea that God "won't" would be better than saying God "can't".
Forcing LOVE on a person is asking for FALSE LOVE for yourself ... I believe that is why GOD gave us all free will 😊
How can god be timeless, spaceless and immaterial.... Yet exists!!! That is a contradiction.
It's only a contradiction for us.
@@johnmark1v17 that is not how logic and work, if something doesn't work for us it can't work for god. Frank says god can't make a square circle,, then god can't exist timeless, spaceless and immaterial because the definition of exsit is to have objective reality or being.
No your reasoning is a contradiction 😂
@@justingary5322 how is my reasoning contradictory?
@@hasone1848 If something doesn't work for us it can't work for God? Do you understand what a God is? I'm not going to defend the statement that Frank made, which limits God. 'm just saying that God is beyond anything we can do.
***Matthew 19:26
But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
God is illogical and for some reason it makes perfect logic.
People say three persons cannot be one, because they are three. And one person can't be three, because it is one.
And yet God says He is One and Three.
“God cannot do anything that is logically impossible”
*God creates everything out of nothing*
Yep. People cannot imagine the concept of a God. So they limit God.
They say , "If I can't do it, then God can't."
People also say that 3 can't be 1 and 1 can't be three. Yet God is both.
It's not logically impossible for a supernatural being to do that. It's logically impossible for nature to cause nature. As God is not nature, God can do that.
God is outside of nature. By definition.
And when you say 'nothing', you clearly don't mean that includes God. God exists, therefore there cannot truly be 'nothing'.
Who states God creates everything out of nothing?😂 God had sufficient things to create universe.
I really don't like talking about what God can't do. Logic, changes when we talk about God. Logic holds us back as it is another worldly perceived word. Apply logic to heaven and God. Of course you draw a blank. Because we really don't know what is actually logical.
But even from nothing, everything has been created in a certain order so there is logic involved. It was not by random cause and effect, And even chances also has reasons why there is existence.
The thumbnail king taking it easy as always
God doesn’t force us ,neither do we have God’s “hands tied behind His back” until WE decide!!
When God draws us to Him (John 6 37:44) it is an irresistible call that we gleefully accept and frees us from our bondage in sin. Saving Grace is all of God-the synergist ( Frank Turek being a good example) will not accept the Biblical truth unfortunately.
Its funny how he calls himself a Christian when he doesn't believe God's supernatural miracles, we saw that power with Yeshuahis son but we haven't seen anything yet, we have no idea the power and wonders God has for us. He can lift up the oceans if he wants. God can do whatever he wants. We either believe in him or we don't. This young man hasn't received the Holy spirit yet. When you're born again your life changes and your faith will be strong.
Stop with your baseless ASSERTIONS please they are no more valid or convincing than those if the followers of Zeus Thor, Buddah,Muhammad, ect
Frank : “God can’t do logically impossible things”
Questioner: “Isn’t miraculously healing people by touching them logically impossible?”
Frank : *ignores statement to defend logically possible scenario of water turning to wine*
Me : •_•
I do wonder how Frank would have answered that one. does seem pretty illogical. Maybe, god was able to create a God DNA for Jesus to be both God and Man
I don't really see the problem here. How is healing the sick through laying on hands logically impossible? Healing people isn't impossible, we've got medicines that do just that. If we can create a medicine that can heal an ailment, why would the Person who created and sustains everything not be able to do the same?
Compare that to a round square as Frank mentioned. That is a logical impossibility, since both squares and rounds have a very clear definition or 'nature', and those two natures are contradictory. A square is always "a plane figure with four equal straight sides and four right angles". A circle is always "a round plane figure whose boundary (the circumference) consists of points equidistant from a fixed point (the centre)." Something can not be both a square and a circle at the same time.
Defying natural or scientific laws is not the same as a logical impossibility.
Maybe it’s a similar justification?
Frank did answer that at 2:55 with The "Agent who can intervene & overpower Natural Law" argument that covers the question about the healing miracles too.
There is nothing illogical about healing through touch. There is a difference between something being illogical and something violating the natural laws of nature.
Based on the very first question, then creating earth and literally everything was completely pointless other than to cause unnecessary suffering, because god already knows what each individual human would have chosen and whether they would have accepted jesus.
Kinda bleak, but it seems like that, from the way the student goes on to frame it. Think of it this way? God wants our love and fellowship. Those can't be forced or it's not authentic. It has to be by individual choice (free will). So, even though He knows "how it will play out" with each person, He also wants to give that person free will to make their choices. His refusing to allow someone to be born because He knows in advance that they'll deny Him and refuse to love or believe in Him would be like stacking the deck in a card game. Then, He would still be fair and just, but not PERFECTLY fair and just (ultimately), which He is. God Bless!
That is how much he loves us forcing people and make decisions for us that is not love
It seems to me that people keep forgetting that God exists outside of time when questions like this come up. Which means He is with you (right now) from your beginning to the end of this life (and maybe more). So yes, He knows. Both what you could do and will do.
And He still chose to come to this earth and provide salvation for all who would accept it.
Man, our God is an awesome God!
sorry that is all wishful thinking. how did you prove god is outside of time? you didnt you just beleive it on faith. problem is using faith you can literally believe any old crap to be true
The more I hear about the way god exists, the more it lines up with non-existence.
-He’s not physical, check.
-We can’t demonstrate his existence, check
-We only know about a god as a construct in our minds, check
-he exists outside space and time, check
And if all of this just because we can’t fully trust our senses, I’d say our senses are more reliable than this sorta unfalsifiable nonsense. It’s a really bad gamble.
@@SNORKYMEDIA Well think about it. God has to to be immaterial, and timeless in order to create material things at which point, time begins.
I really liked your simple yet effective illustration of our ability to “intervene & overpower natural laws” when you held then dropped the water bottle 😊👍🏼. You could see the gears ⚙️ turning in the students mind as he ultimately, humbly agreed with you. I was blessed to see & hear you sermon last year at my church Compass Bible Church in Aliso Viejo. Thank you & thank the Lord for his faithful servants 🙏🏼
I never understood how God can't do something logically impossible. Does that mean logic is beyond God and God obeys the laws of logic?
I think it's more because it's simply OUR definition of logic that we are trying to make Him go through. Like he said, a "one-ended stick" is something you can't really even put into your mind to begin with.
God is the creator of logic and has set boundaries for all things to be clearly defined. God also holds His word in high regard and even binds Himself to it. So if God can't defy His own parameters of creation, it's because it's His will to limit Himself to not defy them. God is a God of order as seen clearly in creation.
God is by nature logical. So to say that logic is beyond God is to say that God is beyond God. It's incoherent.
This young man is just like me, I'm Catholic but I do question and doubt my faith. But I did grow in faith due to people like Frank Turek, Dr. Craig, Francis Collins, etc. We need to question things, that is a part of being a critical-thinker. Having doubts on faith isn't always bad, with faith comes doubt and with doubt comes faith.
We come to this earth completely Ignorant, we have a LOT to learn before we leave this place, Asking questions is a Good thing. We NEED to understand. I remember as a Child, things I learned were VERY OFTEN very counter-intuitive to me. My dad was frequently exasperated when my first exposure to something often seemed Backwards to me. I wasn't alone, when I first showed my baby sister how to shoot a water pistol, she always turned it around with her Thumb on the Trigger and point it at herself while AIMING at the same target that I was. And Boy did she get mad for a long long long time when I tried to take it from her and turn it round, regardless of how she squirted herself with it. Soaking herself didn't bother her - ME telling her what to do chapped her something fierce! LOL!
But, once I worked with a thing for a while, then I could NO LONGER even imagine how my first thought of it was so totally BACKWARDS. These days, I am surprised I have that much memory of it and couldn't tell you any of the things I Once thought briefly should have been the other way around.
Oh, Wow, Just Remembered One of them - TRUE! Except for climbing into a saddle, though I'd seen enough westerns to know better.
Sometimes my dad thought I was the dumbest cluck! LOL! But after a few years, I finally began to hit my stride, and learning new things did get easier.
WHY should things be Different when Humans cannot understand at all why God thinks so many of things WE FIND SO VERY PLEASURABLE, as we stumble ignorantly upon them in This Life, are so SINFUL and HORRIBLE in HIS EYES?
Yes, ever since Adam bit that piece of Fruit, we've all come at things in life a lot too ignorantly for our own good, so often.
Faith in Jesus Christ alone.
Do not paganise Jesus Christ.
At 01:34
*Exodus 9;12*
But the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD had said to Moses.
Water doesn't naturally turn into wine, water does NOT just go into the ground and then grows into a grapefruit plant. What kinda mess-up logic is that? Frank, there is no Magic in water, and it is not logical for water to turn into wine.
The Laws of Nature are Descriptive, NOT Prescriptive. IF Natural Laws cease to exist, then the Laws of Logic (also Descriptive) would also cease to exist, then it is true that your so-called God creates a contradiction. Magic does not exist, Frank. Go prove the existence of Magic, and then you have a case for your God.
Also, holding a bottle of water is NOT overpowering Gravity, you are exercising Physical force over Gravity's weak force, and Physical Force is not Magic, so, Gravity didn't cease to exist, the moment you let go of that bottle Gravity will still pull that bottle to the ground.
IF God can't sin, then God doesn't have Free Will.
I'm sorry, Frank makes more excuses than I can count , and also claims to know things he cannot possibly know .
Matt Dillahunty stated, in no uncertain terms, that even if he got unequivocal, indisputable evidence, he doesn't even know what that evidence is, confirming God's existence, he still wouldn't worship God being convinced God is evil.
Matt Dillahunty is an example of the incoherence of atheism.
Peace and God Bless
Yes. Because worship and admiration needs to be earned. Why would you worship a genocidal and capricious celestial dictator?
Richard Dawkins said some similar as well.
A true atheist is indifferent to God, because they really don't think he exists. I've noticed, however, that the majority of so-called atheists are downright angry with God and are blatantly disrespectful. They go out of their way to blaspheme Him and upset Christians. Nobody bothers to do that to a mythological figure like zeus, because nobody genuinely believes in him. It's very telling.
Bunny has a point @@guitarplyr327
@@BunnySlippers82 not angry at god. Angry at people who attempt to legislate morality on a fictional characters behalf.
I've realized it's really common for people today to confuse "logic" with "reason". When I say that, I don't mean they don't know how to be logical or reasonable, I mean they literally confuse the definition of the word logic with reason.
In this case, I think the student didn't understand what you meant by "logically impossible" and thought you were saying God can't do anything out of the ordinary
Agreed, I thought the same thing. That said, he's young, respectful, and he listened. I think he's going to be okay in the long run.
@@sidwhiting665 Yeah I was actually really happy to see that this intersection was open and curious without being a conflict. That's really rare to see
So what is the difference between logic and reason, if you don't mind.
@@dutch_asocialite I realized the word "reason" isn't perfectly clear either. The official term for what I'm trying to describe is "metaphysical impossibility". It means something is impossible by the laws of science and statistics. An example of a metaphysical impossibility is raising from the dead.
Logical impossibility is impossible because of rules of logic we define ourselves. An example of a logical rule is "dead is defined by no longer being alive." Then a logical impossibility is "you are both dead and alive at the same time"
@@mitchderise Thanks.
Dang Frank, amazing explaination. Lamens terms for a complex universe. Beautuful. All humans want to do is make it more complex when it's really a bunch of simple concepts. We have been indoctrinated into thinking and living a certain way that when we start thinking for ourselves we literally become a child again because life is so much bigger and brighter than what we are made to think. Thank you Jesus!!!! ❤
All kinds of people literate or illiterate blind, deaf or dumb can believe. Hallelujah. They can be healed too 😊♥️
@@repentancenow
Please tell me how ? Is there a specific prayer or spell for such a purpose ?
It sad how humans such as myself actually think about things that are assumed to be true by people who worship
Bronze Age fiction.
@@MartTLS Not specific necessarily but a form of the sinner's prayer is a good start. You must have an open and repentative heart and come before the Lord. Sample prayer below. I myself was skeptical at first but I had tried numerous ways spiritually to fulfill the void only the Holy Spirit can fill from Buddah and astrology to yoga and healing stones. Nothing was ever enough and it wasn't til I gave Jesus a chance that my life changed. A weight lifted off me, a clarity like never before. I was born again. The Love I have for people now was nothing like it was before. It is something you have to experience for yourself but when you seek you shall find. God bless you.
Dear Jesus, I know I am a sinner, I pray that you will forgive me for all my sins. I pray that you will cone into my heart and be my Lord, Savior of my life. I confess that you died on the cross to save me from my sins and I am comitted to turning away from those sins. I ask that you fill me with your Holy Spirit so that I can be born again. I ask that you give me the strength and abundant faith to overcome any and all attacks by the enemy including my desire to sin so that may serve you completely. I pray that you will give me discernment so that I may know all things that are Truth and the knowledge acquired from reading your word. Use me this day as I am a willing vessel Lord in leading others to your Kingdom. Wash me as white as snow, put a hedge of protection around me as I go forth in doing your will. Thank you Jesus for saving me as I know that only through my Faith in you that all this is possible. Amen
@@besetfree5752
You do know that prayers don’t work don’t you ? What makes you think that god if he existed would change his plans just because you prayed and if he was going to do something anyway why would you need to pray ? And have you noticed it’s only those things which you can do for yourself that you give him credit for when something happens ? It’s called confirmation bias. You are deluded.
We can do miracles like Jesus did
'Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
(John 14:12)
It always astonishes me that people who are believers put limits on God. How do you believe and look at creation. Then wonder how God could turn water into wine.
Good on this young man for asking, you can tell he's really thinking about it.
I came across the same question a while ago and one of William Lang Craig's sentence helped me regarding the word Can't -
"An all powerful God cannot make mistake" or make "Colourless colour"
The virgin birth - If God created everything, would it be so difficult to just add a Y chromosome into Mary's womb?
Regarding the Foreknowledge and Predestination, in a passing video Frank clarified it for me by saying -
By foreknowing you can help align events in place so the ones that will turn to God will under those circumstances. Predestination is set by Foreknowledge of what is to come.
" ... would it be so difficult to just add a Y chromosome into Mary's womb?"
Yes, it's not so difficult for God to so so. But would that mean Jesus got the rest of genes from Mary? I mean he was born with no sinful nature, right? That is even with Mary's genes, right? So ... it's men's genes? That's where sinful nature come from? Is that because Adam is responsible for original sin? Not Eve?
@@tTtt-ho3tq
And then presumably no bloodline back to David .
I think he missed an opportunity to clarify logical vs illogical (using his terminology) regarding what God can do. I would've liked to see him explain to the student that making a square circle defies reality, because a square circle isn't a circle, it is in fact a square, and it can't be both things at once. God could TURN a circle into a square, but he cannot defy his nature (that nature being TRUTH and REALITY) by making something exist in the present as an UNTRUTH (making a square be a circle). Water into wine is taking one thing and making it INTO something different, but it did in fact exist as the other thing.
Another way to explain this is to say that, since God is the definition of TRUTH, he cannot by definition be UNTRUTH.
This is great.
Intellectual conversation from both of them.
The kid took the info well but is curious...
Good talk guys
People go to hell because of sin thats why jesus take the penalty of our sin and died. Now if you are not accepting hes done and follow his teaching your are subjected to judgement because God is just and he will judge all the evil.
The young man's right. God did in fact create his own box. It is written "God can't break His word. And because His word cannot change, the promise is likewise unchangeable." Hebrews 6:18. He is telling us that there is an order that must be followed. And even He will follow it. After all. What's the point of inventing a language if any One person determines that any letter can be changed at any time they want?
Jesus came in the flesh, walked among us, did His miracles for all to see but that didn't stop people from rejecting Him, calling for Pilate to crucify Him and mocking Him on the cross.
Seeing or hearing does not guarantee believing. Most will not believe no matter what. Some will with very little. But God has already given us more than enough for us to know about Him through creation, our moral conscience, Jesus life, death and resurrection and His word. We have no excuse to not believe.
God cares what you believe/think about Him, is He good or bad.
But God doesn't care how much you believe in God's existence as a fact.
@@loveandideas7826 I don't know where you got that "fact" from.
From the bible.
@@loveandideas7826 Which book, chapter and verse are you referring to?
One of exemples, the faith of the Centurion in Matthew 8.
Brilliant lecture Dr. Turek as always. God bless you in your ministry.🙏🏻
This is a great question. “If God is just, wouldn’t He do everything in his power to save everyone from eternal separation from Him?” Salvation in Christ answers this question. Hebrews 9 tells us that:
“And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many […].” Hebrews 9:27-28 NKJV
What was perfectly necessary and sufficient to save was performed once! Salvation was not only an act of God’s power, but of grace, love and humility. Jesus performed our salvation without glory, and that’s what God in all of His wisdom deemed most powerful to save. The saving message was meant to be wieldable and palatable. Just as Christ the Son’s sacrifice was to save us, God our Father’s sacrifice is, has been, and will be of His freedom to willfully pursue ends - even those that would result in everyone’s salvation. Therefore, we can say that His (God our Father’s) sacrifice is in not saving.
So in this question, we also get to see that God’s righteous character is in 3 persons. God’s execution of power and will to secure a relationship with us considers God the Son and His ministry and God the Holy Spirit and His ministry. This is what was best to make sure that all aspects of salvation were delivered fully to those who would inherit it.
Also, in terms of what God the Father does in His power, all of history shows that heavenly plans are carried out behind the scenes. So if this is a question of God’s effort to save, the answer is yes. Check out this verse:
“Are not all the angels ministering spirits sent out [by God] to serve (accompany, protect) those who will inherit salvation? [Of course they are!]” Hebrews 1:14 AMP
“If God is just, wouldn’t He do everything in his power to save everyone from eternal separation from Him?” The answer is no. God's justice does not obligate him to save sinners. He freely chooses those who would be saved. And he freely does not choose those who will not be saved. And he remains just.
@@reallifelegend4781 Word, family! And His choosing is (in part) according to the layered ministry of His power (by each person of God, the angels, and even in and through us) to accomplish all aspects of salvation. And of course, His not choosing is in favor of this.
Many Christians likes to say to their brothers and sisters in Christ who are experiencing troublesome time that God saw and knew this problem will come to their life and had the solution to it before the problem even started. This truth has to be truth at the highest possible level as well, like before God created anything at all, when He was just planning the creation, He has to see all the problems coming on the way back then, in the beginning, before creation and He must have come to solutions to fixing of all the problems before He created anything at all.
Now endless existence of a constant torment is no solution at all, it is the most horrifying, worst, utter failure imaginable, because nothing can be worse than existing forever, without the ability to stop existing and existing forever in a constant horrifying suffering, so eternal torment is no solution, it is worst failure imaginable, therefore it cannot be reality, because if God would know that Him creating anything at all, would lead to even only one being into endless torment, Him being Love at the highest level and Him being self sufficient 100% who does not need anything at all, would never, not for one second, think to create the world at all.
@@nikokapanen82 God is not a reactionary God. He ordains all that comes to pass, yet in such a way that he remains just and the justifier.
@@reallifelegend4781
Knowing that you are creating the world, where the ultimate destiny for billions of people will be nothing else but an eternal pain, suffering and agony without any hope to ever feel peace again, would be knowing that you are evil to the core.
This is why it cannot be literally true. God, being Love, would never decide to create the world, if He would know that He would defile the world with an eternal horror, weeping, crying and mourning which would never be fixed out of existence again.
I’ve been following Frank for a while now but I half to disagree with frank putting limitations on our God, I know he can do anything we could ever imagine being done
I really have an issue with the pattern in the comparison of Moses to Christ. Red flag, that's unbiblical.
So grateful to have come across this! These were thoughts I’ve had myself but didn’t know how to ask them. Really grateful for the questioner, and for Franks way of explaining it. Definitions matter.
Frank sure does know a lot about what God can and can't do.
Audience Member: "God is thinking of a number between 1 and 100 ..."
Frank: "It's 27."
frank is going off of logical reasoning
is it possible to have or for God to create an object that is a circle square, is like saying, give me an object that [has no corners] and also [has four corners]. By definition this is a logical impossibility, it can either have one or the other, but not both
@@timothyn4699
So God can transcend time and space, but not the confines of logic as reasoned by human beings? Maybe we should worship Logic, as that which restrains God is by definition greater than God.
@@marklewis1979 it's more a matter of something that is logical/makes_sense versus something that is nonsensical
you can't 100% be made out of salt and 100% made out of water. If you say both are true at the same time, you don't know what the definition of "100%" means
you can worship logic, but logic is not a person, it's ...how do you describe it, an idea. It's a way to discover the validity of statements and find truth. It's an abstract means/method.
(It's like praising 1 + 1 = 2. Ok, cool, you like truth, but exalting truth/logic up is only so useful, won't save you from death, isn't a person so doesn't have agency/ability to do anything other than exist, etc. It's better to seek truth than lies, there is utility in it, but knowing facts only does so much for you. Everyone knows they should try to eat healthy and workout, that knowledge is useless if it isn't applied.)
silly example, if a person chooses not to punch another person, would you say that person is weak because they "can't/won't/choose_not_to punch another person" and that that idea is stronger or better than the person? Or that the person is "less good", or "weak" for not showing that they are capable of punching other people? No, ofc not.
God is not a kid that has to prove Himself or flaunt His strength, and He is not less good or weak for restraining Himself. A better person is someone who has strength, and has it under control, rather than a person who has strength and abuses it
An intelligent question followed by an equally intelligent answer, well spoken Dr. Frank!👏
Instead of “God cannot sin,” I prefer “God does not sin.” God sinning would be like the sun causing darkness instead of light. It would not be the sun if it swallowed light, and only one who is not God would sin. To sin is to miss the mark; God does not err. Evil is an absence of good; God is perfect goodness.
God not doing anything that is sinful is not a limitation. I will never set myself on fire. That does not mean my life is limited from having that experience. It means that setting myself on fire makes no sense. It is morbidly absurd. In fact, if I were to set myself on fire, I would then have a host of severe limitations. My lifespan would be extremely limited if I died. Surviving the incident would limit my resources due to medical bills, and it would limit my functionality due to my impaired body. It would limit my relationships, as many people would consider me a madman, and I could no longer participate in many social activities. In fact, the limitations would go on and on.
Humans, in our creative works, often concoct worlds that are seemingly perfect, and yet, that causes them to be full of plotholes, shallowness, and artificiality. It is ironic that we mortals try to create perfection, and in doing so, we make awfully imperfect creations. And at the same time, God, who is perfect, creates an imperfect world, and in doing so, it is real and unfathomably deep.
A little late to the party, but this is the one thing I don't think Dr. Frank Turek is right about. One, I'm a Calvinist. Two, his argument is being challenged well by this kid he just didn't capitalize on the points he was making in the moment. Would love someone on Frank's side to talk to about it in this comment section. So if you're seeing this please respond so you can help me talk through it. Thank you!