I wouldn’t equate a lack of God or god a lack of principle. Even if you make the argument that desiring principle is desiring God. If he had a time and the thought of mind to mention it, all of morality seems to be based off of health and help.
@@FaySwine Perhaps someone just erased his/her comment, and that's what you were responding to. But sure you can't equate those two. You can have principles and still make no reference to God. What you can't do is justify those principles beyond yourself. To do that, you need an objective standard. But what is such an objective ruler that can measure what is good and evil so you can justify your principles? What do we know, other than a mind, that can make sense of morality? It is pretty reasonable how this points to God. You could find a lot of objections, but in the end, you gotta evaluate what's at least more likely. Indeed, I'm undoubtedly convinced that God is the moral Standard.
@@renancunha4799 If a person thought of life as intrinsically valuable, considered happiness as a factor to good ethics but was concerned about fear and addiction being obstacles the could find morality. Western society has just filtered their ideas through scripture throughout the ages. Surely you don't agree with all that was done like the crusades, right?
Quite so. I challenged a friends student Daughter on her beliefs and fondness for Marxism and even though it was gentle, she threw a huge tantrum, cried and told everyone she hated me. This was in February. To my great astonishment, she is now a different person and is being discipled at a local church. I don't know what input I had, but I don't think what I said was wasted.
@@itsJPhere false, when we preach the gospel, it is God's word and since it is God's command He is essentially working though us. Get it? No way to spin that one my friend.
That guy said when have you ever seen a kid kill someone? He has clearly never heard of kids who killed their parents or the most evil children in history. Or perhaps never heard of ROBERT THOMPSON and JON VENABLES and what they did. That guy needs to have a seat and shut it. People like him are a disappointment in society. it’s as if he lives under a rock. And then he still has the nerve to get all feisty.
@@GeoNor The Bible - like many religions - instructs its readers to kiill whole towns full of innocent men, women AND children, if just one person in that town worships a different god. This maniacal nonsense is rampant in quite a few relligions.
@@upturnedblousecollar5811 May I ask were on the Bible does it instruct People to kill innocent people if only one person believes in a Different God? (Sorry if my English is bad)
@@GeoNor *Deuteronomy 13:13-19:21* It says: Scoundrels among you are leading their fellow citizens astray by saying, ‘Let us go worship other gods’ - gods you have not known before. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find that the report is true and such a detestable act has been committed among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the open square and burn it. Burn the entire town as a burnt offering to the Lord your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt.
There is no objective morality. Morality is a man-made concept and entirely dependent on societal factors. Morality, while generally agreeable to the whole (most of us agree it is wrong to kill), is relative to a given context e.g. a home owner shoots and kills an intruder. Religion does not own truth or morality.
@@coffeeandbytes9854 hate to say this Coffee, but you are of no higher authority to declare "no objective morality" than religion is to claim there is, sorry. We all have a conscience that says otherwise. And where it's true that culture can have a variance on a person's morality, this is a severance of what each person knows to be true. and as God says, as a person continues to willfully override his conscience, eventually he will simply give this person up to what they desire, turn them over to a reprobate way of thinking. This can happen on a cultural level also. The Bible is chock full of examples of this. A severance brought about by the fall of man, those given over to sinful proclivities, and a natural rebellion towards God as a result. By the way, if you do a study on the commandment not to kill, you will quickly find the meaning to be, "thou shalt not commit murder." That is, not to kill unlawfully. This is of course substantiated by the many lawful killings depicted in the Bible. The Bible also speaks about the spirit of the law, which covers all of those nuanced and unusual circumstances of life.
@@johnboehmer6683 well then. Change of subject If we all have objective morality. What is your opinion on slaves? Jesus didn't condemn slavery as far as i know.
Paulius Širka Jesus didn’t condemn homosexuality directly either Jesus didn’t condemn masturbation directly Jesus Said do unto others as you’d want them to do unto you Jesus brought two important laws, Loving God and loving humanity And he said within these laws lies every law Jesus did not temper with political status quo as he emphasized on his followers to focus on their spiritual lives and families Hence render to Caesar what belongs to Caesar and render to God what belongs to God We could go on But in principle as a Christian who follows Christ, you’d understand clearly where Christ stands on several issues he never explicitly mentioned
@@raphaeljasi5517 So what you are saying is that although Jesus did not condemn slavery directly he did not "aprove" of it either. I believe your god should be pretty powerfull since he created everything etc etc. so if he didn't approve of it shouldn't he be able to do something about it at the time? And really great you mentioned homosexuality! What is your opinion on killing gay people? Because your God himself ordered ot after all ( Leviticus chapter 20 verse 13 ) (I'LL just put it right here if you are too bothered to look it up ) "If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." If you say "killing gay people is wrong" you are defying your Gods orders. If you say "killing gay people is ok" please do explain why killing gay people should be ok.
I am an ex-muslim, follower of Christ, from Afghanistan. I pray for Dear you who read this according Ephesians 1:17 in the Almighty Name of the Lord Jesus Christ. 🙏
Haha. Listening to his answers change, it was clear he was making it up as he went. However, he's actually smart and could keep up with his own stumbling. But, he still really missed Frank's points.
All morality is subjective. And there are NO ultimate values. People may have their own priorities but what restrains their impulses? Society does with expectations and law.
@@msmd3295 What you're stating is only true in a world where God does not exist. Where God exists, He is the objective moral standard. He determines and sets what is right and wrong, and has placed that knowledge on our hearts.
@@msmd3295 You know what you sound like? You sound like someone very sheltered, with very little life experience, for whom everything in life is theoretical. Because holy cow, you have no idea what you're talking about.
@@msmd3295if all morality is subjective, then you cannot objectively claim something is evil, because you’d be imposing your morality onto the other person who has a different view of morality. A world without objective morality would be a world full of humans. As we’d have all killed each other by now.
Children are physically violent ALL the time, and if they had the grown bodies of adults they would do serious damage to other people. A little kid flailing their arms around trying to slap and push doesn’t seem that bad because they’re tiny and can’t do a lot of damage but there is some seriously evil anger and intent to do damage behind it, just as in adults.
Exactly! The difference with adults is that we've either learned to restrain ourselves out of love/respect for others, obedience to God, or fear of consequences. If children had the bodies of full-grown adults, it would be complete mayhem.
Not to mention how they, on their own, learn to manipulate, to lie, and even to be physically aggressive. They are incredibly selfish and demonstrate every single trait, completely unrestricted, we now relate to the fallen human nature. Of course, it is our job to teach them how to behave like a NON-fallen human, but you can be sure they will resist such education stubbornly.
@@greyspot00 You're so right, Kyle. I know this isn't the point you were making, but we saw actual adults behaving like tantrum-throwing children all through the summer of 2020 in cities like Portland and Seattle...Pushing, shouting, hitting, hurting, breaking things, stealing other people's property, lighting destructive fires, and even picking up weapons and killing other people. No love or respect, and no fear of consequences. Behavior that sprouted and took root from the tiniest little seeds of uncorrected selfishness and undisciplined emotions that first manifested when these adults were very small children. Without the love of Christ constraining us, there is no real barrier to keep any of us from descending into chaotic and destructive behavior, especially when our undisciplined and willful minds will not submit to the Lordship of Christ Jesus. Utter mayhem! Well said, Kyle.
@@truesoundboy1 nobody has a obligation to show you and I don't have a snapchat vid of Gods morality😂if I recommended a book. Would you read it? If so I recommend the bible wich states you Gods morality, if morality was based off a reason, lions would have morality because there reason of murdering another creature is simply eating, so to your standard it make no sense
@@anti-nephilimgovernmentage5471 I’m sure you think so. I have the exact same opinion of theistic arguments. Atheism doesn’t really advance any arguments so your criticising it for something it isn’t trying to do.
@@johnward2650 well the reason we are taught that way is because it’s morally wrong to kill someone and morality can only come from god, and not everyone is raised that way some parents tell their kids to go out and kill people, there’s a ton of gangs that probably teach kids how to live morally wrong
He wasn't a kid. At that point people hit puberty and according to Islam, puberty means that a person can now make his decisions. You also ignore a lot of mental health issues and abuse that must have been going on at his home.
He said there are no children that do things like that and before he took a breath he said and there are children that do those things. This young man is in denial about human behavior to a dangerous extent.
He wasn't well-prepared to answer the question. Frank Turek is a lot like Ben Shapiro--he mainly debates ill-prepared college students because they can easily be owned and it makes him look better.
@@dinohall2595 Frank Turek has debated well-known and respected atheists. He discusses these issues with young people because he truly wants to change their thought process, not because he's afraid to debate Christopher Hitchens or Richard Dawkins. They are more likely to learn from him rather than resent him for presenting information in a different light.
@@dinohall2595 Isn't it amazing? When someone reject religion they're considered "free thinkers", "smart" & all other beautiful words in the word. When they're questioned about the worldview they hold then all over sudden experts must be involved. Typical.
Yeah, he's an excellent example of how people truly are not interested in getting to truth anymore, they're interested in pushing their own agenda at all cost. This guy changed his position on the existence of objective morality three times in about 2 minutes to save face and not be proven wrong, stunning.
@Root 66 You said: "What does the life of a long forgotten slave in the Hittite Empire who was killed one morning for stealing from his master thousands of yrs. ago matter?" You do realize you might be talking about your great-great-etc. grandfather, right?
Typical atheist... Get used to it it's what they do every time when you debate them that's why I frankly don't talk with them at all anymore you can debunk what they say multiple times and it will continue to ask the same exact questions over and over and over and over again. They're also the biggest hypocrites on the face of the Earth they'll sit there and say morals are subjective from one side of their mouth and they're from the other side of the mouth argue with Christians or people that are religious about why they're wrong for believing what they believe.
I will always remember the time that my 4 yr old nephew asked his mom (my sister) for a treat and she told him "No". He continued to implore her with a sad face and remind her of how good he had been that day. She eventually relented and gave him the treat. He then turned and said "Works every time!". My nephew understood human nature perfectly well before he even started kindergarten.
@@shadouxg7150 , true, but those of us who've had kids will make fun of those who haven't and still say things like, "Kids are good by nature." . Nope. Kids are good because of training they receive from their parents, family, teachers, coaches, pastors, and other influential adults. Even with abundant training, some kids are still nasty and rotten.
"There is no such thing as objective meaning." "Is that an objective statement?" I love when atheists create parameters that lead to a self defeating argument.
@@haileyjohnson5935 ... Your statement is flawed on so many levels. The pagan deities you mention are NOT separate from the created order... ALL of them, in the mythological stories about them, are CREATED beings. ALL of them have origins. So, that means that NONE of them can explain the origin of the universe, the laws of logic, the origin of time, the origin of material, the origin of life, the moral law, objective truth, etc... NONE of them. Aside from that, you and I both know that you are INTENTIONALLY being too cute by half with that nonsensical redefinition of atheism. Not believing in a story, or the being upon which the story is based, that isn't rooted in a historical time and place with corroborating eyewitness testimony, in ACTUAL temporal history, is NOT the same as rejecting the valid evidence for a Creator of all things. There is ZERO comparison between Odin or Zues, and Yahweh.
@@sivad1025 i believe theres a reason that we exist(we exist because these things happend). But we dont exist for a reason (we exist to do this). If that makes sense
What's meaningful about being a talking animal who's only here by way of a cosmic accident? To come from nothing only to live for a short time and then return to nothing. There's no reason to give meaning where it never was or will be. God gives meaning and purpose or nothing does. If you remove God, you remove meaning. That's inescapable.
@Logan Arendt And then you're annihilated at death and everything you've seen, done, learned and experienced disappears with you. After enough time has passed, it'll be like you were never born. Whatever you were or whatever meaning you assigned to your life will be forgotten in time. Meaningless. IF there were no God. Because there is, you'll be judged and punished for your sins against Him. Repent and believe in Jesus Christ for mercy.
You don't have to teach a child to share, they know the value of sharing innately. Kids share without being taught all the time, even animals do it. The fact that it needs to be reinforced sometimes doesn't mean it's a foreign concept.
@@BrianBadondeBo children have to be taught not to be selfish because that's all they know coming out of the womb. Everything is about them as a baby, because it is. They are the center of attention or else they won't survive. As they start to grow more and more, we slowly teach them that it isn't all about them anymore. Children by nature are very selfish but that's completely normal until they are raised up properly.
@@hunterhestekin7420 oh please no one who has ever used that argument has really thought about it. Why would you expect babies to be altruistic? What could a baby even DO to be altruistic? Babies are helpless, they can't help others, they can't even survive on their own, literally selfishness is the only way they can preserve their own lives. We don't hold babies to the same social standards we hold each other to, because we'd be cruel idiots if we did
@@alanbaraka9800 Yeah, we actually can, dude. This is old, old news. I'm not going to sit here and provide the plethora of sources because you could very easily find them yourself in minutes, but you instead choose to feign ignorance for sake of being argumentative on a RUclips comments section. Get real.
Prayer is life autoerotic. It works for you. It can works for someone who know what are you doing. But in the end you won't increase probabilty of something happening.
““If a man beats his male or female slave with a club and the slave dies as a result, the owner must be punished.” Exodus 21:20 “But if the slave recovers within a day or two, then the owner shall not be punished, since the slave is his property.” Exodus 21:21
@@bassmanjr100 Many people who who you might describe as "hard atheist" are formerly religious. If you have a family, there's a lot of pressure to stick with your publicly stated beliefs. It's simply easier to make that transition, at least publicly, if you are single. That being said, there are plenty of atheists with kids. Check out the channels Prophet of Zod, Paulogia, PineCreek, etc.
"Love thy neighbor as thyself" I think that was what he might have been hinting at when he was describing "man's nature", interestingly enough. The Bible says that the Law is written on our hearts.
Love your neighbor as yourself was a command from God. Usually people have to be told what to do because they’re either not doing it or not doing it correctly. Humans are selfish hence the need to be constantly reminded to treat people better than myself.
"No child goes out and commits murder." You should familiarise yourself with the James Bulger case from here in the UK, young fellow. It was so disturbing, shocking and heinous that it's etched into our minds many years later.
And here in the US, Eric Smith, about 13 years old killed 4 year old Derrick Robie. He was recently released from prison after a few decades in prison. Here Eric was the target of bullying, and then he became a murderous bully.
@@dinohall2595 Killing wouldn't be wrong if there was no God. No God, no morals. Thats it no arguing against it. You known it's true, don't deny it. People just belive what they want to belive. Don't be like them.
He needs to read a history book. Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin, Hitler, Che the list goes on and on. Tell me about humans on the whole being peaceful and harmonious.
A real history book would be "Mein Kampf" the "Communist Manifesto" and "Little Red Book." History books in school and in general are lies unless looked at by the source. The Bible is the only real history book that I think matters.
@@ozarked2363 that's right if Man left to his own device, especially in times of war or strife and poverty shall be seen when Man devolves to that of beasts. Histories has been written so.
Both can be “true”. To each individual it’s subjective. But society, the ultimate law giver, morality is objective, a set expectation and there are laws that impose expectations and punishments. Society is “objective” in the sense expectations and rule are imposed from the outside of individual impulse.
Whose society, though? Frank makes that point about Hitler's meaning early on. It's just as applicable, and as easily understandable on that scale. It's just "the winner makes the rules" writ large.
@@msmd3295 Dude you double contradicted yourself right here, hope one day will realize that you weren't born from a stone and that avoiding moral law won't make it non-existent.
I don't think he even knew what that meant. He's pretty young and inexperienced and was probably just starting to question these things for the first and probably already has different views about it than he had when it was recorded.
@@JohnDoe-fg9ng Wrong! Atheism is indeed a faith! Faith that is base on ones own ideas, governed by their own flesh! All of which is 'Hostile according to 'Romans 8:7
It definitely is not in mans nature to be naturally Good! How many times have we past homeless people and not gave a damn when someone wants our help because we don’t know them!
Or in the first place, many homeless people become homeless because of their own wrongdoings! We are fallen creatures, we can't pretend that we're holy and pure. We have to seek salvation through Christ so that we CAN be holy and pure.
@@XLEZZY_REUPLOADS You should really rethink what you just wrote. The kid with cancer, did that child do wrong? The person who isn't paid a fair wage and works 80 hours a week, that's their fault? What about the rich person who has everything and is completely healthy but they gained their money through child sex trafficking, I suppose they're being blessed?
@@hd-mot thats why we say this is an imperfect world. There is so many sufferings in this world. But that doesnt prove god is bad because jesus clearly says wht ever happening in earth has an end. There is a life after death and there will be no more pain in that life.. And remember his ultimate command love one another.if peoples obey that command am pretty sure 99% of suffering will remove from this world. He gives an absolute solution to that. But unfortunately peoples dont understand it. Jesus loves u💖
Children are the most evil creatures. They're a really good example of absence of morality. Because really until they get into teens they don't understand right from wrong. More of "what gets me punished and what doesn't"
@@RS54321 exactly, humanity is selfish, no one has to teach kids to fight over toys, or call things theirs when it’s not, or hit, throw, or bite people, or scream and kick and flail when they don’t get their way. Kids left to their own devices will do self-serving, eventually sinful, wicked, evil things. And the kids on those shows especially prove him horribly wrong.
Through all my trials and pain, your channel has always been there for me and it’s *inspired me* to start my own channel, to give powerful motivation, sound theology and fun... I thank this valuable ministry *for helping me get saved* . Blessings to you and your viewers always!! 🔥😇🔥
02:00 Kid: _"I believe we have our own nature and we live according to that"_ *Ravi Zachariah* _"The problem with that is that some societies like to love their neighbors and other (societies) like to eat them"_
@@sad-pt7xd It's not that people don't eat their neighbors because they fear God necessarily, but it's more that you can't say that YOU wouldn't be eating your neighbors too if that's what you were taught. If morality were truly dependent on the individual, then how can anyone even say what's truly "human nature"? Human nature would be whatever we're taught to do.
Justine Spink But God brings the same problems, he says don’t kill but he flooded the world to kill people. Even if God exists, morality is subjective. Besides cannibalism isn’t always wrong, if a person is stranded on an island and their friends died and now he is alone with no food, is it immoral to eat his friends?
@@sad-pt7xd I wasn't making a statement about whether cannibalism was bad under every circumstance. God judging the sins of the world doesn't make morality subjective either.
miguel cunanan Now that sounds like JP Moreland. Well done! If we can get people to examine their own ideas for coherence or lack there of we can start to get them moving toward some level of rationality.
@@jameswatkins7763 lol are you serious? Its self evident. Atheists are people so poorly trained on logic that they think their person failure to grasp a concept amounts to an argument against the concept. It's like a child telling you rocket science is not true because he cant understand basic mathematics.
@@stevedoetsch If I give you an equation and ask you to calculate it, assuming you understand how math works, you'll always get the same answer. It doesn't matter what mood you're in, what race you are, which religion you believe in, who your parents are, etc. And if you don't get the right answer, math gives you a framework to determine exactly what you did wrong. This makes math objective. On the other hand if I ask you to determine if a given statement or action is moral, your answer may be different if you're Catholic, Protestant, Methodist, Baptist, Jehova's Witness, Church of England, Lutheran, Eastern Orthodox, non-denominational, or anything else. Not to mention all other life experiences that affect moral values. This is obviously subjective. What people like you try to say is "I know the right way to interpret God's will for mankind. Therefore, my moral values are perfect, so morality is objective." You think you're right and everyone else is wrong. You're so conceited that you blame atheists for not knowing logic, when you obviously have a tenuous grasp of the subject yourself.
One of the reasons you're supposed to wrestle and play with your kids is to teach them the socially acceptable difference between playing and violence. Many children who haven't gone through this will grow up thinking they're playing with someone when they're actually causing serious injury to them.
Sounds like he never looked into history, lived his life nor had any job. I hope he sees how many wars and fight that we went through to earn the peace (still a lot of conflict out there though) that we are living in.
He needs to imagine children with the same strength as an adult, we would be doomed. Anyways, interesting point he made about Hitler acting in contradiction of how he would want to be treated. Same argument Paul makes about himself.
Like most of these charlatans, Frank Turek uses religion to make money. If money were taken out of the equation he would dump his religion in a heartbeat. Look how rich he is. And ask yourself if a camel can go through the eye of a needle.
@@Gumpmachine1isn't it amazing how there are so many fools that actually confront your opposition and yet you yourself who know so much better never make an effort.
@@spazemfathemcazemmeleggymi272 well that would be because firstly my geography doesn’t favour going to such events Secondly I use my intellect to make money and be successful with only a very small portion of it dedicated to these topics for entertainment purposes. This guy handles the subjective/objective morality argument very poorly, I’m happy to acknowledge that. Makes Frank look better than he actually is. He ceded the high ground without a fight
@@FaySwine Children know more than you think. I know this as a 14 year old boy. I'm not on the atheist's side, although it may seem that way. There's a difference between the age of accountability, and doing wicked things. If the child understands a specific sin and knows right and wrong from it, and yet still does wrong, they shall account for their sin. The age of accountability is different for every human, there are a lot of people that mature quickly. Even if a child was not aware that murder is just straight up wrong, does that make it any less evil?
@@jayoh112 I'm more agnostic, and respect scripture, but have some problems with some conflicting or counterproductive Christian norms. My answerer is that children are less responsible for the environments they make. Children can become spoiled, but enabling or entitled parents is the real issue. An adult with a child's mind can do more damage.
To paraphrase Inigo Montoya ('The Princess Bride") "Tony, you keep using that word (objectivity), but I do not think it means what you think it means."
3 year olds are children. Why do you assume he meant older children who SHOULD be old enough to figure a few things out? Because religious nuts can't or won't use critical thinking, especially to see how they are being fooled...even though it is obvious!
@@jeffjones3040 not assuming anything. The guy said children and an example with children was given..with the mental capacity of people it surprises me that the government considers 18 years old as adulthood when the brain is still maturing well after untill like age 24 or 26 or something and even then plenty of adults still act like kids. You would think adults would no better but they are just as bad.
@@maow9240 careful you are using Caesars laws and traditions to judge a religious moral ethical question. 12 are not the little children and are well past the knowledge of good and evil, the age of reason. At least the person speaking a courteous debater. He was not a smug empty ambusher.
We are actually good by nature we are bad now bc of Adam but if he had done right we will all be good by nature bc everything God created is good the problem is Man was good until he turn bad and now we are recycling bad but we have someone that’s fina come alone and restore things bk they way they should
Bulshit we are social animals how do you think our ancestor get along befor jebus or those who had a other belief system went along? Humans arent per se bad or good. Something good in 17 century is maybee bad today. Morality IS subjective
Want to see what we as humans are capable of? Watch a documentary called: New Mexico State Penitentiary Prison Riot 1980. Also: Death In A Southwest Prison. For 36 hours, the forces of Hell were unleashed.
@@brianhults4911 fantasy? Have you ever herd of school shootings and gang violence it’s legit all young kids it’s still happening to this day 😂 tons of raping in high school
When I was about 6 or 7, I got mad at my brother and pushed him off the top of the bunk bed and he fell down face first to the floor. Thank God he didn't get seriously injured. But in hindsight I could have broken his neck or something like that. Now I am the father of 3 boys and one of them is going through the terrible twos phase. I can assure you we as humans are bent towards evil.
If the intent is to do harm because after experiencing a similar pain to oneself, if that was his intent, then that definitely shows evil. Children are selfish, mean and brutal just like adults. The difference we pray is that moral parents are doing the job of controlling said children, so that they don't do these things as adults. Our daughter bit my wife once as a toddler. She got bit back immediately, associated biting w pain when used as a tool against another and hasn't bit anyone since. Problem solved.
I remember when my little sister went through the terrible twos. She would always do mean or annoying things and then she would always laugh whenever I would get upset.
Yep. This guy isn't considering that kids always have an adult figure around to lead them. If not, i can't imagine what they'd do. He obviously has very little experience with children.
God has to make a person ready. As Romans 9:15-16 teaches, God has mercy on whom He wishes, and salvation is not at all based on an individual's desire or works.
@@peterburman5193 Well of course God didn’t give us anything since he’s not real but if we do have free will then how can God already know what choices we’ll make before we make them?
@@wingsfk I love that response. It has the same argumentative weight as ‘because I said so’. Unfortunately I was looking for a genuine suggestion not a god of the gaps.
I agree that he is overestimating the natural kindness of children. In this, he is being ridiculous. Now, do you also understand why Frank is being ridiculous?
@@peregrine6741 Values are things/ideas/behaviors that a specific being places importance on. They are subjective by definition. He seems to be using the term "objective meaning" to refer to "objective moral values". "Objective values" is a contradiction in terms. Perhaps you think he means something else by "objective meaning"? If so, what is "objective meaning"? How can we tell if it exists? How can we tell the difference between objective meaning and subjective meaning?
I don't think one can be educated beyond their intelligence. I don't know how you came up with this logic. It was definitely was beyond your intelligence that's for sure.
"when was the last time a child killed someone" I could bring up news articles of such acts, but its not my job to make everyone enlightened of today's world.
This man contradicts himself so much it's shocking! Between 4:36 and 4:50 he states that: _"No child goes out and does what... the wicked things that adults do! Right? No child... okay, when's the last time... when was the last time a child murdered someone? Raped someone? Kidnapped someone? It's an absurdity!"_ only to contradict himself right after when he states (between 4:52 - 4:56): _"If your children were really so violent you would have them institutionalized! And there are some children like that..."_
The questioners book knowledge has failed...once again. “There’s a way that seems right but it leads to destruction “… praying for his salvation through Christ alone 😎✝️❤️
Yeah give him some Bible morality such as this - “If a man beats his male or female slave with a club and the slave dies as a result, the owner must be punished.” Exodus 21:20 “But if the slave recovers within a day or two, then the owner shall not be punished, since the slave is his property.” Exodus 21:21
MrLightning20 Well, your being Subjective for sure! I encourage you to read the other 65 books of the Bible starting with the Gospel of John. Respectfully yours
BirdogEd I didn’t give you any of my opinions on this verse, you just said I’m being subjective after I quoted it. Am I being subjective if I quote John 3:16?
@@JamesRichardWiley sir, I am afraid Yeshua isn't in His "normal" human state, He is risen long ago along with His body. He can exist in multiple places in the universe (all that there is) at a time and He can also NOT be inside Creation (all that there is)... If you expect Him to be at a specific place and time then he'd not be a true God.....
@@JamesRichardWiley (Addition to my comment) According to Bible and the Gospel accounts, He's at the right hand of God's Throne, unfortunately according to Judaism and Christian theology that's just another way to explain in (edit correct spelling - "it") to the people at that time, and it's not an actual real material throne made with diamonds/golds/gemstones or something else. It just means that He's with God and that God has given power to Him over all the heaven and creation. It was easy for others in ancient times because they were familiar with kings and kingdoms somewhat....... That's all for now... Have a nice day... And Feel free to ask any other questions you might have and I'll try my best....
This is not complicated, children do not have to be taught to do wrong, they have to be taught to do right, and right and wrong are objectively defined by God.
@@paddyod6305 you are correct. But I don't have to show your god doesn't exist any more than you have to show fairies don't exist. Why? Because the burden of proof rests on the one making the positive assertion. When theists claim their god exists they have a burden of proof to verify their claim. And until they do they don't get to act like their claim is already true. If that were the case I could do the same thing and say you haven't shown that fairies don't exist. This presumes that fairies do exist and that I showed they exist. Neither of which is the case. Same thing with god. You nor anyone else has shown thus far that a god can or does exist. Which is why evidence is needed.
@@alanbaraka9800 Well if it isn't Alan... the stalker. We believers don't have to show YOU that God exists, we couldn't anyway, because you lack the things necessary to accept any evidence presented to you; logic, reason, common sense and above all, honesty and humility. If you possessed these things you wouldn't be believing in fairy tales like darwinian evolution or that life can come from non-life or everything came from nothing. smh
@@rustyshadow7 "...right and wrong are objectively defined by God." So are slavery, genocide, misogyny, homophobia and racism okay then? Also, if an evil god had created the universe, would murder be okay while altruism was immoral?
Brando yeah he was not good in this debate. He needs to learn Bible morality like these 2 verses - “If a man beats his male or female slave with a club and the slave dies as a result, the owner must be punished.” Exodus 21:20 “But if the slave recovers within a day or two, then the owner shall not be punished, since the slave is his property.” Exodus 21:21
@@chungusultimate your words welcome the holy spirit. Blessed be his name! Thou shalt not deviate from the word of god or thou shalt perish, except Jesus saves and forgives you for your sins and you shall have everlasting life after death bc ye hath believed in the obvious indisputable truth. The souls of believers in Muslim, Mormonism, Buddhism, etc. shalt convert for their souls of avoiding eternal punishment. Jesus is the only way! For God gave his only begotten son that whosoever believeth in him shalt not perish but shall have everlasting life sayeth John 3:16. Sorry Jews. This is the day that the lord hath made. 🙌🙌🥰🥰
@@MrLightning20 Oh man, I thought you made fun of the bible, by supposdely quoting from the Mosaic law and taking it out of context. I'm a brother in Christ man. blessed by the triune God!
@@chungusultimate no worries, I'm just merely quoting the bible not out of context. I think people should come in peace. 1 Timothy 2:8. I will therefore, men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands, without wrath or doubting. The holy spirit doesn't endorse wrath or doubting. Regardless of who we are when worshipping, black white Male or female, God loves and cares about everyone. 1 Timothy 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Don't let the devil deceive.
By saying that no one in the crowd has hit each other or cussed at each other proves that our default is selfish and violent not peaceful. The fact that we have to control our temper and actions points to a baseline that is quite contrary to peaceful.
If no man ever looked at a woman lustfully then there wouldn’t be any humans on the Earth. Human beings are sexual creatures. We are attracted to others and desire others from an evolutionary perspective so that we ensure the survival of our species.
Two 18 month olds in a playpen with one toy shows you the heart of Man. Man is desperately wicked. Only a relationship with Jesus changes the heart. Great stuff Frank, so glad you do what you do.
My thought was they aren't behaving in a violent fashion because they've all been raised in a judeo-christian culture according to the values of God the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit
"When was the last time a child murdered someone?" I can think of a handful off the top of my head just in my country, in my lifetime. The killers of little Jamie Bulger for a start. Kids can be very cruel. He obviously doesn't spend much time around them.
about 20 years ago while I was studying in Japan, a shocking incident that an elementary school student cut off his schoolmate's head and exhibited the head in front of the gate of the school, because the killer wanted to demonstrate the story from a comic book, I have left Japan and never go back again.
One insane person in an entire country and you leave the country?? Wherever you are living now there are insane people there too. I've been living in Japan for 11 years and it is infinitely safer than America.
When one is young .... one knows EVERYTHING. Perhaps someone needs to explain to Tony what took place in Rwanda ... or any of the other slaughters for that matter ....
Everytime this question is asked it is the one question that is difficult to understand. If there is no standard (God) outside of you and me why is something right or wrong.
The development and purpose or "right and wrong" outside of religion is to create a peaceful, prosperous society. Most of us will go throughout our lives without being raped, murdered or stolen from because no one wants that to happen to themselves so we came together, said we will not do those things and agree to catch and punish those who do. 90% of logical morality can be derived from the golden rule.
Judgement at Neurumberg. That's where this question played out. The argument that the culture of Nazism had created became their normal. They did as they were told and had been socialized to do. The proceeding had to be stopped and one man had to take time (days) and prepare an explanation of why they were so terribly wrong and write the words out for them to explain objective morality and it's source and that the allies and members of the UN believed the same and practice morality in the predominant number of cultures in our world Then the proceeding could continue. I heard it explained by Cliffe Knectle on his videos.
Human nature is a mix, it's not "bent towards evil", the reason kids can be selfish early on is because when you're a small weak creature, you have to care for yourself first if you're to survive at all. Kids don't have to be taught the golden rule, just as some animals perform the golden rule without being taught.
I think this person is deeply hurt by something. I watched a 2 hour video of a cross examined presentation the other day and this same person was on, he seems to be deeply angry at God and I hope he finds the truth about God.
I had a conversation with my best friend about this. He believed that morality was completely subjective. We fell into cultural relativism and historical contexts that justify certain practices. It actually bleeds over into the idea that truth itself is relative. Considering logically it’s not, he changed his mind on that and thankfully so. That’s a slippery slope.
The thing about this guy's argument is that he assumes human nature is inherently good and morally upright... Boy do I have centuries of violence in mankind's history to prove you wrong!
Craig Bowen humans are inherently good? As Frank pointed out, you don’t have to teach a child to lie. I think what you meant is we have a degree of civility but when civility gets in the way of ambition (wealth, power, self preservation, etc.) we tend to disregard civility. Also, Christians are disingenuous with their actions because they are simply afraid of going to hell? Quite a generalization and misunderstanding of Scripture. Every person has their story, some experience healing, some turn to faith to escape emptiness of serving self, some experience meeting Jesus in a vision or another real way, the love of another Christian, etc. Also, Christians don’t fear hell because Christ paid the price. Salvation is not because of our good works but a free gift of God. We perform good works afterwards in love for God, which in turn, should lead us to love/serve others, rich, poor, men, women, the fortunate and disenfranchised etc. We learn to care for others because we understand God’s heart for all people, and by loving our brother/sister/neighbor/fellow human being, we are loving God.
Evolutionary speaking, morality exists. Humans are a group species and people who do something negative towards the group are excluded, making only people who work for the group, stay in the group
This is what the world says: "Do whatever what makes you feel good", "Be yourself", "Follow your heart", "It's my truth". But WHY??? 🤦♀ We need rules and laws in order to know if there's meaning in life
Tony is debating on shaky grounds about presumptions of human nature. There are many different theories on the 'state of nature' and I would argue that humans are naturally chaotic and selfish, not rational. Even for arguments sake, we live in a rational society where we do not want to harm each other. These are the results of society wanting protection from chaos, not because we are naturally rational. Even if it was argued that protection is rational, this claim does not infer that it is part of our nature because harm precedes protection. So it makes sense - in relation to social contract theory - that we are inclined to harm others by nature which is why we legislate protection laws. And this brings my point about those assuming that atheists think people are good by nature. Please don’t, Hobbes was an outspoken atheist who argued the contrary. Not all atheists are going to have the same opinion about this.
Premise 1: Humans innately know what is good Premise 2: Humans sometimes act differently from what they believe to be good. Premise 3: What is good is objective and note merely subjective Conclusion: Therefore, there is no need for a God to have objective good. Problem 1: Begs the question - Premises assume the conclusion. The argument basically is saying because everyone knows what is good there is objective good (morality). How do I know what I know is good? Because I know its good. How do I know if my acting evil is me acting against my own beliefs? Because I know what is good. Problem 2: Circular reasoning - self explanatory. Problem 3: Self contradictory - because people individually determine what is good therefore there is objective morality.
“Humans are good in nature” this boy is in for a rude awakening when he enters the real world
I wouldn’t equate a lack of God or god a lack of principle. Even if you make the argument that desiring principle is desiring God. If he had a time and the thought of mind to mention it, all of morality seems to be based off of health and help.
just make rule of no punishment in a day like in the movie The Purge and see what kind of human nature we have lol
@@finnfinn2381 To be fair, boundaries aren't for punishing people, there about respecting property which can include your own body.
@@FaySwine Perhaps someone just erased his/her comment, and that's what you were responding to. But sure you can't equate those two. You can have principles and still make no reference to God. What you can't do is justify those principles beyond yourself. To do that, you need an objective standard. But what is such an objective ruler that can measure what is good and evil so you can justify your principles? What do we know, other than a mind, that can make sense of morality? It is pretty reasonable how this points to God. You could find a lot of objections, but in the end, you gotta evaluate what's at least more likely. Indeed, I'm undoubtedly convinced that God is the moral Standard.
@@renancunha4799 If a person thought of life as intrinsically valuable, considered happiness as a factor to good ethics but was concerned about fear and addiction being obstacles the could find morality. Western society has just filtered their ideas through scripture throughout the ages. Surely you don't agree with all that was done like the crusades, right?
Remember just because you don’t see someone come to Christ infront of you does not mean God isn’t working through you. Keep preaching!!
Quite so. I challenged a friends student Daughter on her beliefs and fondness for Marxism and even though it was gentle, she threw a huge tantrum, cried and told everyone she hated me. This was in February. To my great astonishment, she is now a different person and is being discipled at a local church. I don't know what input I had, but I don't think what I said was wasted.
Best comment I've read today
Remember just because you see someone come to Christ in front of you does not mean a God is working through you.
Amen. God’s word never returns void.
@@itsJPhere false, when we preach the gospel, it is God's word and since it is God's command He is essentially working though us. Get it? No way to spin that one my friend.
Man's nature is loving? I bet this guy still locks his house when he goes to bed though.
"Do you lock your door at night"
- Ravi Zacharias
That guy said when have you ever seen a kid kill someone? He has clearly never heard of kids who killed their parents or the most evil children in history. Or perhaps never heard of ROBERT THOMPSON and JON VENABLES and what they did. That guy needs to have a seat and shut it. People like him are a disappointment in society. it’s as if he lives under a rock. And then he still has the nerve to get all feisty.
Who doesn't?
@@juniorsir9521 he needs enlightenment not backlash
Ooo thats a good point!
"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools." - this video is prolly the best sample.
If killing men, women and children for having a different opinion is "wise", then shame on your religion and shame on you.
@@upturnedblousecollar5811 Can you explain more I’m a bit confused on what your saying ;-;
@@GeoNor The Bible - like many religions - instructs its readers to kiill whole towns full of innocent men, women AND children, if just one person in that town worships a different god. This maniacal nonsense is rampant in quite a few relligions.
@@upturnedblousecollar5811 May I ask were on the Bible does it instruct People to kill innocent people if only one person believes in a Different God? (Sorry if my English is bad)
@@GeoNor *Deuteronomy 13:13-19:21*
It says:
Scoundrels among you are leading their fellow citizens astray by saying, ‘Let us go worship other gods’ - gods you have not known before. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find that the report is true and such a detestable act has been committed among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the open square and burn it. Burn the entire town as a burnt offering to the Lord your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt.
Dude literally switched his position on the existence of objective morality three different times.
There is no objective morality. Morality is a man-made concept and entirely dependent on societal factors.
Morality, while generally agreeable to the whole (most of us agree it is wrong to kill), is relative to a given context e.g. a home owner shoots and kills an intruder.
Religion does not own truth or morality.
@@coffeeandbytes9854 hate to say this Coffee, but you are of no higher authority to declare "no objective morality" than religion is to claim there is, sorry. We all have a conscience that says otherwise. And where it's true that culture can have a variance on a person's morality, this is a severance of what each person knows to be true. and as God says, as a person continues to willfully override his conscience, eventually he will simply give this person up to what they desire, turn them over to a reprobate way of thinking. This can happen on a cultural level also. The Bible is chock full of examples of this. A severance brought about by the fall of man, those given over to sinful proclivities, and a natural rebellion towards God as a result.
By the way, if you do a study on the commandment not to kill, you will quickly find the meaning to be, "thou shalt not commit murder." That is, not to kill unlawfully. This is of course substantiated by the many lawful killings depicted in the Bible. The Bible also speaks about the spirit of the law, which covers all of those nuanced and unusual circumstances of life.
@@johnboehmer6683 well then. Change of subject
If we all have objective morality.
What is your opinion on slaves? Jesus didn't condemn slavery as far as i know.
Paulius Širka Jesus didn’t condemn homosexuality directly either
Jesus didn’t condemn masturbation directly
Jesus Said do unto others as you’d want them to do unto you
Jesus brought two important laws, Loving God and loving humanity
And he said within these laws lies every law
Jesus did not temper with political status quo as he emphasized on his followers to focus on their spiritual lives and families
Hence render to Caesar what belongs to Caesar and render to God what belongs to God
We could go on
But in principle as a Christian who follows Christ, you’d understand clearly where Christ stands on several issues he never explicitly mentioned
@@raphaeljasi5517 So what you are saying is that although Jesus did not condemn slavery directly he did not "aprove" of it either.
I believe your god should be pretty powerfull since he created everything etc etc. so if he didn't approve of it shouldn't he be able to do something about it at the time?
And really great you mentioned homosexuality!
What is your opinion on killing gay people? Because your God himself ordered ot after all
( Leviticus chapter 20 verse 13 )
(I'LL just put it right here if you are too bothered to look it up )
"If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."
If you say "killing gay people is wrong" you are defying your Gods orders.
If you say "killing gay people is ok" please do explain why killing gay people should be ok.
I am an ex-muslim, follower of Christ, from Afghanistan. I pray for Dear you who read this according Ephesians 1:17 in the Almighty Name of the Lord Jesus Christ. 🙏
Amen praise God ❤️🤗
no one cares. Amen
@@ollie6389 God does
Hallelujah !! ❤️☝🏾✝️
Congratulations, sibling in Christ!
I can literally name at least 5 cases that a CHILD had done wicked things against another human being.
I can figuratively only name three
@@neoneherefrom5836 google James bulger...its disgusting.
and animals
A 14 year old shot a pizza delivery guy
Only 5? Out of how many million children?
"There is an objective morality."
"There is no such thing as objective morality."
"There is an objective morality."
~Tony the Atheist
Haha. Listening to his answers change, it was clear he was making it up as he went. However, he's actually smart and could keep up with his own stumbling. But, he still really missed Frank's points.
All morality is subjective. And there are NO ultimate values. People may have their own priorities but what restrains their impulses? Society does with expectations and law.
@@msmd3295 What you're stating is only true in a world where God does not exist.
Where God exists, He is the objective moral standard. He determines and sets what is right and wrong, and has placed that knowledge on our hearts.
@@msmd3295 You know what you sound like? You sound like someone very sheltered, with very little life experience, for whom everything in life is theoretical. Because holy cow, you have no idea what you're talking about.
@@msmd3295if all morality is subjective, then you cannot objectively claim something is evil, because you’d be imposing your morality onto the other person who has a different view of morality. A world without objective morality would be a world full of humans. As we’d have all killed each other by now.
Children are physically violent ALL the time, and if they had the grown bodies of adults they would do serious damage to other people. A little kid flailing their arms around trying to slap and push doesn’t seem that bad because they’re tiny and can’t do a lot of damage but there is some seriously evil anger and intent to do damage behind it, just as in adults.
Exactly! The difference with adults is that we've either learned to restrain ourselves out of love/respect for others, obedience to God, or fear of consequences. If children had the bodies of full-grown adults, it would be complete mayhem.
Do 1 year olds knowingly torture and murder people? I think that was probably more the point.
Not to mention how they, on their own, learn to manipulate, to lie, and even to be physically aggressive. They are incredibly selfish and demonstrate every single trait, completely unrestricted, we now relate to the fallen human nature. Of course, it is our job to teach them how to behave like a NON-fallen human, but you can be sure they will resist such education stubbornly.
Amen
@@greyspot00 You're so right, Kyle. I know this isn't the point you were making, but we saw actual adults behaving like tantrum-throwing children all through the summer of 2020 in cities like Portland and Seattle...Pushing, shouting, hitting, hurting, breaking things, stealing other people's property, lighting destructive fires, and even picking up weapons and killing other people. No love or respect, and no fear of consequences. Behavior that sprouted and took root from the tiniest little seeds of uncorrected selfishness and undisciplined emotions that first manifested when these adults were very small children. Without the love of Christ constraining us, there is no real barrier to keep any of us from descending into chaotic and destructive behavior, especially when our undisciplined and willful minds will not submit to the Lordship of Christ Jesus. Utter mayhem! Well said, Kyle.
This guy is going to sing "How Great Thou Art" with that nice baritone voice someday.
There is no objective morality unless god exists...what does that mean?
@@truesoundboy1 it’s means where do we draw the perfect standard of morality from if there isn’t a perfect God to draw it from.
@@chechains we draw it from reason as we have always done...give me an example of this objective moral standard please
@@chechains Show examples of this unique objective moral standard that god exemplifies please and how is this god perfect...show me
@@truesoundboy1 nobody has a obligation to show you and I don't have a snapchat vid of Gods morality😂if I recommended a book. Would you read it? If so I recommend the bible wich states you Gods morality, if morality was based off a reason, lions would have morality because there reason of murdering another creature is simply eating, so to your standard it make no sense
His argument about kids not doing bad things like adults was immediately a face palm!
Actually if you leave kids alone they may stab each other to death in minutes...
i remember a 5 yr old shooting his grandma in the head because he was playing gta apparently.
@@user-nu3sd7zb2j That's still adults being evil. The parents are responsible for this.
@@mmmgoodroll nope , it's the kids fault. The kid knew what was going to happen.
Yeah like kids commit crimes all of the time
"When was the last time a child murdered somebody"
Oh dear, protect his innocence
No, don't. He needs a heavy dose of reality from a classroom before it smacks him across the face in the real world.
@Lanthanaas No. Let reality smack him across the face. Sometimes, people can only learn when they get slapped around by reality.
Yeah as an atheist it was a bad argument
@@Gumpmachine1 as an ex-atheist, you have no good argument.
@@anti-nephilimgovernmentage5471 I’m sure you think so. I have the exact same opinion of theistic arguments.
Atheism doesn’t really advance any arguments so your criticising it for something it isn’t trying to do.
“When was the last time a child murdered someone?”... Saturday in LA a a 10-12 year old boy murdered a 15 year old girl 😐
If I’m not mistaken I think he was trying to say we wasn’t born that way we were taught that way if that’s the case then it is true
@@johnward2650 well the reason we are taught that way is because it’s morally wrong to kill someone and morality can only come from god, and not everyone is raised that way some parents tell their kids to go out and kill people, there’s a ton of gangs that probably teach kids how to live morally wrong
@@Mrgamezombie1 I agree everybody is not taught that way I’m trying to see where you are getting with this as far as responding to my statement
I want to see the follow up discussion
He wasn't a kid. At that point people hit puberty and according to Islam, puberty means that a person can now make his decisions. You also ignore a lot of mental health issues and abuse that must have been going on at his home.
I would give Ravi's answer to this kid by asking him a question, "Do you lock your doors at night?"
You and me both!😅🙌🙏
That is one of my favorite videos on subjective morality
🤭 puts his arguments to rest
YES! That would've been an excellent question!
cyberxspeed My wife wants to lock the door at night, but I often forget, and we live in a place where only 1% or so of the population is Christian.
He said there are no children that do things like that and before he took a breath he said and there are children that do those things. This young man is in denial about human behavior to a dangerous extent.
He wasn't well-prepared to answer the question. Frank Turek is a lot like Ben Shapiro--he mainly debates ill-prepared college students because they can easily be owned and it makes him look better.
@@dinohall2595 Frank Turek has debated well-known and respected atheists. He discusses these issues with young people because he truly wants to change their thought process, not because he's afraid to debate Christopher Hitchens or Richard Dawkins. They are more likely to learn from him rather than resent him for presenting information in a different light.
@@dinohall2595 Isn't it amazing? When someone reject religion they're considered "free thinkers", "smart" & all other beautiful words in the word. When they're questioned about the worldview they hold then all over sudden experts must be involved. Typical.
Yeah, he's an excellent example of how people truly are not interested in getting to truth anymore, they're interested in pushing their own agenda at all cost. This guy changed his position on the existence of objective morality three times in about 2 minutes to save face and not be proven wrong, stunning.
@Root 66 You said: "What does the life of a long forgotten slave in the Hittite Empire who was killed one morning for stealing from his master thousands of yrs. ago matter?"
You do realize you might be talking about your great-great-etc. grandfather, right?
The student changed his standard every time Frank made a point.
Typical atheist... Get used to it it's what they do every time when you debate them that's why I frankly don't talk with them at all anymore you can debunk what they say multiple times and it will continue to ask the same exact questions over and over and over and over again. They're also the biggest hypocrites on the face of the Earth they'll sit there and say morals are subjective from one side of their mouth and they're from the other side of the mouth argue with Christians or people that are religious about why they're wrong for believing what they believe.
Flip, flop.
no, he did not. He was consistent all the way.
I will always remember the time that my 4 yr old nephew asked his mom (my sister) for a treat and she told him "No". He continued to implore her with a sad face and remind her of how good he had been that day. She eventually relented and gave him the treat. He then turned and said "Works every time!". My nephew understood human nature perfectly well before he even started kindergarten.
🤣
Lol
TV is not a good babysitter
You can always tell when someone doesn't have children yet wants to tell you what kids are like... 😂😂😂
U can still talk about children without having any
@@shadouxg7150 , true, but those of us who've had kids will make fun of those who haven't and still say things like, "Kids are good by nature."
.
Nope. Kids are good because of training they receive from their parents, family, teachers, coaches, pastors, and other influential adults. Even with abundant training, some kids are still nasty and rotten.
You need to have a child in order to examine how kids are like? Great logic there mister..
@@FactStorm I mean people who have kids are more experienced with them. Also, excellent logic by you.
@@yasiem6245 Nobody contested the experience with them.
"There is no such thing as objective meaning."
"Is that an objective statement?"
I love when atheists create parameters that lead to a self defeating argument.
Their existence must also mean Zeus, Horus, and Odin must exist too.
@@haileyjohnson5935 ... Your statement is flawed on so many levels. The pagan deities you mention are NOT separate from the created order... ALL of them, in the mythological stories about them, are CREATED beings. ALL of them have origins. So, that means that NONE of them can explain the origin of the universe, the laws of logic, the origin of time, the origin of material, the origin of life, the moral law, objective truth, etc... NONE of them.
Aside from that, you and I both know that you are INTENTIONALLY being too cute by half with that nonsensical redefinition of atheism. Not believing in a story, or the being upon which the story is based, that isn't rooted in a historical time and place with corroborating eyewitness testimony, in ACTUAL temporal history, is NOT the same as rejecting the valid evidence for a Creator of all things. There is ZERO comparison between Odin or Zues, and Yahweh.
Why do you feel we MUST have a meaning to exist?
@@Qred09 If there's no meaning, then there's no reason to care about anything. I care about things. Therefore I believe in meaning.
@@sivad1025 i believe theres a reason that we exist(we exist because these things happend). But we dont exist for a reason (we exist to do this).
If that makes sense
Man, the patience Dr. Turek has to do this job. It is a testament!
This guy is a doctor? Dentist?
It's his job and he makes. Of course he is patient. Trouble is he never answers a question without making a god claim. Pointless.
"No child goes out and does the wicked things adults do." Tell that to the parents of James Bulger.
Being from England that's the first thing that came to mind although I forgot their names ,,,,, so long ago now .
Yes! This needs to be shouted out...
Yeah and he clearly hasn't heard of puberty lol
I think it's safe to say that adults do wicked things far more often than children.
@@brendanl2580 That was never in dispute! Listen to the video...
What's meaningful about being a talking animal who's only here by way of a cosmic accident? To come from nothing only to live for a short time and then return to nothing. There's no reason to give meaning where it never was or will be. God gives meaning and purpose or nothing does. If you remove God, you remove meaning. That's inescapable.
Which god?
Christ our Lord
@Logan Arendt And then you're annihilated at death and everything you've seen, done, learned and experienced disappears with you. After enough time has passed, it'll be like you were never born. Whatever you were or whatever meaning you assigned to your life will be forgotten in time. Meaningless.
IF there were no God. Because there is, you'll be judged and punished for your sins against Him. Repent and believe in Jesus Christ for mercy.
@@TomAnderson_81 You came to a Christian channel and you don't know? I trust that with a little more time you can put that puzzle together.
@@TomAnderson_81 Which Tom?
"You don't have to teach a child to say 'mine,' you have to teach them to share."
BOOM.
Your going to have to teach a child period (.)
You don't have to teach a child to share, they know the value of sharing innately. Kids share without being taught all the time, even animals do it. The fact that it needs to be reinforced sometimes doesn't mean it's a foreign concept.
@@BrianBadondeBo children have to be taught not to be selfish because that's all they know coming out of the womb. Everything is about them as a baby, because it is. They are the center of attention or else they won't survive. As they start to grow more and more, we slowly teach them that it isn't all about them anymore. Children by nature are very selfish but that's completely normal until they are raised up properly.
@@hunterhestekin7420 oh please no one who has ever used that argument has really thought about it. Why would you expect babies to be altruistic? What could a baby even DO to be altruistic? Babies are helpless, they can't help others, they can't even survive on their own, literally selfishness is the only way they can preserve their own lives. We don't hold babies to the same social standards we hold each other to, because we'd be cruel idiots if we did
It's been my experience that people like Tony often end up becoming zealous Christians. Have patience and pray for him! 😇
Or a Muslim or joins a cult 😂
In the Words of Jesus, "To those who have ears let them hear and to those who have eyes let them see.". Praying for these people.
nice quote. Can you show who wrote the bible and where it was written to verify it's true?
@@alanbaraka9800 Yeah, we actually can, dude. This is old, old news. I'm not going to sit here and provide the plethora of sources because you could very easily find them yourself in minutes, but you instead choose to feign ignorance for sake of being argumentative on a RUclips comments section. Get real.
Prayer is life autoerotic. It works for you. It can works for someone who know what are you doing. But in the end you won't increase probabilty of something happening.
@@alanbaraka9800 Knowing who wrote it doesn't validate the content.
““If a man beats his male or female slave with a club and the slave dies as a result, the owner must be punished.”
Exodus 21:20 “But if the slave recovers within a day or two, then the owner shall not be punished, since the slave is his property.”
Exodus 21:21
One hundred dollars says this guy doesn't have kids lol
Edit: after watching the video, he admits he doesn't have children. Called it lol
Brando he’s probably just a kid himself....teenager probably
Brando I am not sure if I hope he never does or maybe that is exactly what he needs. I have found that many hard atheists don’t have kids. Why?
@@bassmanjr100 Many people who who you might describe as "hard atheist" are formerly religious. If you have a family, there's a lot of pressure to stick with your publicly stated beliefs. It's simply easier to make that transition, at least publicly, if you are single. That being said, there are plenty of atheists with kids. Check out the channels Prophet of Zod, Paulogia, PineCreek, etc.
I'd bet my bottom dollar that he locks his door at night
That doesn’t make his arguments any worse
"Love thy neighbor as thyself" I think that was what he might have been hinting at when he was describing "man's nature", interestingly enough. The Bible says that the Law is written on our hearts.
Only because God put it there.
@@danielespitia1776 Indeed.
Love your neighbor as yourself was a command from God. Usually people have to be told what to do because they’re either not doing it or not doing it correctly. Humans are selfish hence the need to be constantly reminded to treat people better than myself.
"No child goes out and commits murder." You should familiarise yourself with the James Bulger case from here in the UK, young fellow. It was so disturbing, shocking and heinous that it's etched into our minds many years later.
And here in the US, Eric Smith, about 13 years old killed 4 year old Derrick Robie. He was recently released from prison after a few decades in prison. Here Eric was the target of bullying, and then he became a murderous bully.
Mr Marwood……you’re so right. That case was obscene beyond words.
@@DeeAnderson-oj2hrParis Bennett. I don't want to even repeat what he did to his four year old sister here because it's horrific
ok. so you have 1 case of violent kid vs millions of kids that arent..
@@matswessling6600 I take it you've never spent any time around children.
The only moral is, he don't want to believe, no matter what.
Except of course that this discussion had nothing to do with the existence of any god.
@@dinohall2595 Killing wouldn't be wrong if there was no God. No God, no morals. Thats it no arguing against it. You known it's true, don't deny it. People just belive what they want to belive. Don't be like them.
Momir Cvjetkovic Who decides what’s bad and what’s good? Objective morals can not exist without God, only subjective morals.
Illy Wing
Can you explain why slavery is bad?
That’s owning and beating other people.
There's none so blind as those who WON'T believe...
"It's man's nature to be peaceful and loving towards one another"...🙄🤦♂️
Right, even Jesus told us to love one another and to forgive each other, which is contrary to our nature😭
He needs to read a history book. Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin, Hitler, Che the list goes on and on. Tell me about humans on the whole being peaceful and harmonious.
A real history book would be "Mein Kampf" the "Communist Manifesto" and "Little Red Book." History books in school and in general are lies unless looked at by the source. The Bible is the only real history book that I think matters.
The history of the world, including the Bible, is filled with mankind being anything but good.
@@ozarked2363The heart of man is definitely "desperately wicked"
@@samuelhunter4631 and deceitful Above All Things
@@ozarked2363 that's right if Man left to his own device, especially in times of war or strife and poverty shall be seen when Man devolves to that of beasts. Histories has been written so.
I like how he said morality was subjective, and then like 2 mins later said it was objective. Nice one.
Both can be “true”. To each individual it’s subjective. But society, the ultimate law giver, morality is objective, a set expectation and there are laws that impose expectations and punishments. Society is “objective” in the sense expectations and rule are imposed from the outside of individual impulse.
Whose society, though? Frank makes that point about Hitler's meaning early on. It's just as applicable, and as easily understandable on that scale. It's just "the winner makes the rules" writ large.
@@msmd3295 Dude you double contradicted yourself right here, hope one day will realize that you weren't born from a stone and that avoiding moral law won't make it non-existent.
I was like him once... don’t be too hard on him. He is searching and may still find the truth.
XHuntinatorX I was like you once so I won’t be hard on you.
Yea I'm quite saddened and really hope he comes to know Christ.
how do you know that's truth you are talking about..?
@@jayantekka6238 because Jesus says I am the Truth. (John 14,6) And there is only one truth
he might need guidance.
the guy in minute 1:59= "I believe life has objective meaning..."
same guy in minute 2:53= "There is no objective meaning..."
me: Okay...
You know you’re losing a debate when you disagree with your own point
I don't think he even knew what that meant. He's pretty young and inexperienced and was probably just starting to question these things for the first and probably already has different views about it than he had when it was recorded.
Atheist always contridict themselves because their whole Idealogy is contridicting!!
@@piijay14 How is atheism an ideology? It is a lack of belief, not a belief.
@@JohnDoe-fg9ng Wrong! Atheism is indeed a faith! Faith that is base on ones own ideas, governed by their own flesh! All of which is 'Hostile according to 'Romans 8:7
It definitely is not in mans nature to be naturally Good! How many times have we past homeless people and not gave a damn when someone wants our help because we don’t know them!
Privileged White American kid who doesn't know the World.
Or, have given them $20 and they went straight to a "package" store. It cuts both ways.
Or in the first place, many homeless people become homeless because of their own wrongdoings! We are fallen creatures, we can't pretend that we're holy and pure. We have to seek salvation through Christ so that we CAN be holy and pure.
@@XLEZZY_REUPLOADS You should really rethink what you just wrote.
The kid with cancer, did that child do wrong?
The person who isn't paid a fair wage and works 80 hours a week, that's their fault?
What about the rich person who has everything and is completely healthy but they gained their money through child sex trafficking, I suppose they're being blessed?
@@hd-mot thats why we say this is an imperfect world. There is so many sufferings in this world. But that doesnt prove god is bad because jesus clearly says wht ever happening in earth has an end. There is a life after death and there will be no more pain in that life.. And remember his ultimate command love one another.if peoples obey that command am pretty sure 99% of suffering will remove from this world. He gives an absolute solution to that. But unfortunately peoples dont understand it. Jesus loves u💖
"No child goes out and does the wicked things adults do" I can tell this person never had kids.
Or watched any type of forensic or crime show. His ignorance is astounding.
Children are the most evil creatures. They're a really good example of absence of morality. Because really until they get into teens they don't understand right from wrong. More of "what gets me punished and what doesn't"
@@RS54321 exactly, humanity is selfish, no one has to teach kids to fight over toys, or call things theirs when it’s not, or hit, throw, or bite people, or scream and kick and flail when they don’t get their way. Kids left to their own devices will do self-serving, eventually sinful, wicked, evil things. And the kids on those shows especially prove him horribly wrong.
Through all my trials and pain, your channel has always been there for me and it’s *inspired me* to start my own channel, to give powerful motivation, sound theology and fun... I thank this valuable ministry *for helping me get saved* . Blessings to you and your viewers always!! 🔥😇🔥
❤️
Let me quickly go subscribe.
That's awesome! I'll be praying for you to continue the missionary!
02:00
Kid:
_"I believe we have our own nature and we live according to that"_
*Ravi Zachariah*
_"The problem with that is that some societies like to love their neighbors and other (societies) like to eat them"_
Ravi said that? It's so true It's hillarious!
so you don’t eat your neighbors because you fear God?
@@sad-pt7xd It's not that people don't eat their neighbors because they fear God necessarily, but it's more that you can't say that YOU wouldn't be eating your neighbors too if that's what you were taught. If morality were truly dependent on the individual, then how can anyone even say what's truly "human nature"? Human nature would be whatever we're taught to do.
Justine Spink But God brings the same problems, he says don’t kill but he flooded the world to kill people. Even if God exists, morality is subjective. Besides cannibalism isn’t always wrong, if a person is stranded on an island and their friends died and now he is alone with no food, is it immoral to eat his friends?
@@sad-pt7xd I wasn't making a statement about whether cannibalism was bad under every circumstance. God judging the sins of the world doesn't make morality subjective either.
2:53 "there is no such thing as objective meaning; all values are subjective." is a self-refuting statement.
miguel cunanan Now that sounds like JP Moreland. Well done! If we can get people to examine their own ideas for coherence or lack there of we can start to get them moving toward some level of rationality.
BUDDHISM GANG RISE UP 🇺🇸🚜
I would love an explanation to justify your claim here.
@@jameswatkins7763 lol are you serious? Its self evident. Atheists are people so poorly trained on logic that they think their person failure to grasp a concept amounts to an argument against the concept. It's like a child telling you rocket science is not true because he cant understand basic mathematics.
@@stevedoetsch If I give you an equation and ask you to calculate it, assuming you understand how math works, you'll always get the same answer. It doesn't matter what mood you're in, what race you are, which religion you believe in, who your parents are, etc. And if you don't get the right answer, math gives you a framework to determine exactly what you did wrong. This makes math objective.
On the other hand if I ask you to determine if a given statement or action is moral, your answer may be different if you're Catholic, Protestant, Methodist, Baptist, Jehova's Witness, Church of England, Lutheran, Eastern Orthodox, non-denominational, or anything else. Not to mention all other life experiences that affect moral values. This is obviously subjective.
What people like you try to say is "I know the right way to interpret God's will for mankind. Therefore, my moral values are perfect, so morality is objective." You think you're right and everyone else is wrong. You're so conceited that you blame atheists for not knowing logic, when you obviously have a tenuous grasp of the subject yourself.
One of the reasons you're supposed to wrestle and play with your kids is to teach them the socially acceptable difference between playing and violence. Many children who haven't gone through this will grow up thinking they're playing with someone when they're actually causing serious injury to them.
And they're the teenagers that become bullies or slap you thinking it's funny.
You have taught me a great lesson, never seemed playing with my children from such POV.
You actually have anecdotal evidence of this. Alternatively are you just making up a story that you think sounds good.
@@alyoshapearce5985 Since I'm a Christian I care abou the truth and view lying as immoral so why would I make it up?
@@alyoshapearce5985go look up any clinical psychology research..kids boys especially need horse play it’s good bonding and is an outlet for aggression
Sounds like he never looked into history, lived his life nor had any job. I hope he sees how many wars and fight that we went through to earn the peace (still a lot of conflict out there though) that we are living in.
The thing is, war is a conflict between governments, not people. If you ask a soldier if they want to go to war, they will likely say no
Is this God's Perfect Divine Plan?
If this history we are living with its wars and human suffering is not God's Plan
then whose Plan is it?
Delusional Sexy Pants And who runs the government smarty pants? PEOPLE do. (Plus, soldiers aren't forced to)
Mimi A. But in most countries military conflicts are dealt by one person. Most soldiers are forced to fight by the draft
@@sad-pt7xd that’s a terrible argument, there are many people who go to war to kill others in a calming way. Let’s be real bere
He just doesn’t get it.
joe mcmillan because he doesn’t want to
Jack Of All Trades nice try lol
Jack Of All Trades so are you implying that a person can go further in “spirituality” once they leave religion? Cause that’s a huge stretch
Jack Of All Trades I asked you a simple question that apparently you can’t answer. It’s pretty obvious who’s not using their head
Jack Of All Trades hahahahahahaha fair enough coward
He needs to imagine children with the same strength as an adult, we would be doomed. Anyways, interesting point he made about Hitler acting in contradiction of how he would want to be treated. Same argument Paul makes about himself.
Why? They wouldn’t have the same intelligence and if they did, they wouldn’t go around shooting everyone
A prime example of when it's best to be quiet. Frank does an amazing job with these questioners.
Like most of these charlatans, Frank Turek uses religion to make money.
If money were taken out of the equation he would dump his religion in a heartbeat.
Look how rich he is. And ask yourself if a camel can go through the eye of a needle.
They end up undoing themselves. Hopefully they learn from it.
Frank is making some clever plays that they’re failing to pick up on.
Franks arguments aren’t good but this guy is not rebutting very well
@@Gumpmachine1isn't it amazing how there are so many fools that actually confront your opposition and yet you yourself who know so much better never make an effort.
@@spazemfathemcazemmeleggymi272 well that would be because firstly my geography doesn’t favour going to such events
Secondly I use my intellect to make money and be successful with only a very small portion of it dedicated to these topics for entertainment purposes.
This guy handles the subjective/objective morality argument very poorly, I’m happy to acknowledge that. Makes Frank look better than he actually is.
He ceded the high ground without a fight
It was kind of funny when every parent in the room groaned when the questioner claimed that no child does wicked things.
What if sin is learned?
He said children don't do the wicked things adults do, children still do wicked and I believe he's right on that.
@@jayoh112 What is the youngest age a child can sin at? Crimes against children don't count obviously.
@@FaySwine Children know more than you think. I know this as a 14 year old boy. I'm not on the atheist's side, although it may seem that way. There's a difference between the age of accountability, and doing wicked things. If the child understands a specific sin and knows right and wrong from it, and yet still does wrong, they shall account for their sin. The age of accountability is different for every human, there are a lot of people that mature quickly. Even if a child was not aware that murder is just straight up wrong, does that make it any less evil?
@@jayoh112 I'm more agnostic, and respect scripture, but have some problems with some conflicting or counterproductive Christian norms. My answerer is that children are less responsible for the environments they make. Children can become spoiled, but enabling or entitled parents is the real issue. An adult with a child's mind can do more damage.
To paraphrase Inigo Montoya ('The Princess Bride") "Tony, you keep using that word (objectivity), but I do not think it means what you think it means."
Omg yes. Isn't it funny how he uses the phrase "nature of God" in his definition? Like, I dont think you got that from Merriam-Webster.
2014 Slender man stabbing -two 12 year olds' stabbed their so called friend in the woods.
Those two were in a hallucinatory state. It's recognised as a mental disease
3 year olds are children. Why do you assume he meant older children who SHOULD be old enough to figure a few things out? Because religious nuts can't or won't use critical thinking, especially to see how they are being fooled...even though it is obvious!
@@jeffjones3040 not assuming anything. The guy said children and an example with children was given..with the mental capacity of people it surprises me that the government considers 18 years old as adulthood when the brain is still maturing well after untill like age 24 or 26 or something and even then plenty of adults still act like kids. You would think adults would no better but they are just as bad.
@@maow9240 careful you are using Caesars laws and traditions to judge a religious moral ethical question.
12 are not the little children and are well past the knowledge of good and evil, the age of reason.
At least the person speaking a courteous debater. He was not a smug empty ambusher.
@@STho205 just making an observation.
This guy has an incredible speaking voice...I wonder if he is in radio or voice acting
u thirsty son
I loved it when he said that a child learns the word mine all by himself we have to teach him sharing... It is true we are all bad by nature.
We are actually good by nature we are bad now bc of Adam but if he had done right we will all be good by nature bc everything God created is good the problem is Man was good until he turn bad and now we are recycling bad but we have someone that’s fina come alone and restore things bk they way they should
@@Charles.Wright don’t understand what you are trying to say
Bulshit we are social animals how do you think our ancestor get along befor jebus or those who had a other belief system went along? Humans arent per se bad or good. Something good in 17 century is maybee bad today. Morality IS subjective
Bro I grew up in the 90s early 2000s with kids killing each other and kids touching each other for years this kids in denial 😂
He learned mostly from books but forgot to experience actual life.
Jesus needs to do what needs to be done.
Want to see what we as humans are capable of? Watch a documentary called: New Mexico State Penitentiary Prison Riot 1980.
Also:
Death In A Southwest Prison.
For 36 hours, the forces of Hell were unleashed.
I grew up in the eighties and nineties to in the murder capital of the world I never saw any children killing so where did you read these fantasies
@@brianhults4911 fantasy? Have you ever herd of school shootings and gang violence it’s legit all young kids it’s still happening to this day 😂 tons of raping in high school
When I was about 6 or 7, I got mad at my brother and pushed him off the top of the bunk bed and he fell down face first to the floor. Thank God he didn't get seriously injured. But in hindsight I could have broken his neck or something like that. Now I am the father of 3 boys and one of them is going through the terrible twos phase. I can assure you we as humans are bent towards evil.
That’s just a lack of cognitive ability. Pushing a sibling hardly qualifies as evil, that’s just competition within a social species
If the intent is to do harm because after experiencing a similar pain to oneself, if that was his intent, then that definitely shows evil.
Children are selfish, mean and brutal just like adults. The difference we pray is that moral parents are doing the job of controlling said children, so that they don't do these things as adults.
Our daughter bit my wife once as a toddler. She got bit back immediately, associated biting w pain when used as a tool against another and hasn't bit anyone since.
Problem solved.
I remember when my little sister went through the terrible twos. She would always do mean or annoying things and then she would always laugh whenever I would get upset.
Yep. This guy isn't considering that kids always have an adult figure around to lead them. If not, i can't imagine what they'd do. He obviously has very little experience with children.
That sounds awful. I hope she outgrew that.
2:55
Is that an objective statement you just made?
Frank just nailed it!
"nailed it" was an interesting choice of words, lol
Jesus is coming SOON!!!!! Be ready
I hope so.
God has to make a person ready. As Romans 9:15-16 teaches, God has mercy on whom He wishes, and salvation is not at all based on an individual's desire or works.
Amen, brother!
Jesus is dead
I wish he would come sooner than later.....
"i believe in objective meaning" yea bud that's your subjective opinion.
"I believe God's meaning is objective" is your subjective opinion.
Incredulous Pasta, do you willingly believe in God?
Why not be polite to trespassers? God wants us to.
@@sharonr2121 I used to, but I don't anymore.
@Big Time God's meaning is subjective whether he is real or not. Objective meaning isn't even a coherent idea.
It's sad that some people can't accept that we are naturally evil. It's one of the biggest things that holds society back.
"The notion that the default of mankind is peace and harmony is a deep form of insanity."
Peter Burman Nice to know that your God’s proudest creation is inherently evil.
@@charliecharlie846 that's not an insult to God. He gave us free will and we chose evil
@@peterburman5193 Well of course God didn’t give us anything since he’s not real but if we do have free will then how can God already know what choices we’ll make before we make them?
@@charliecharlie846 because He’s God.
@@wingsfk I love that response. It has the same argumentative weight as ‘because I said so’. Unfortunately I was looking for a genuine suggestion not a god of the gaps.
The kid thinks he lives in a bubble, there are outside influences that can affect your meaning. God gives us a moral compass.
Even the audience knows he's being ridiculous. Even most other atheists would agree he's being ridiculous.
I agree that he is overestimating the natural kindness of children. In this, he is being ridiculous. Now, do you also understand why Frank is being ridiculous?
@@incredulouspasta3304 let me guess, you say he's being ridiculous for believing in God, or saying that objective meaning requires a creator?
@@peregrine6741 No, his claim that God's meaning is objective is ridiculous.
@@incredulouspasta3304 and what's your argument for that?
@@peregrine6741 Values are things/ideas/behaviors that a specific being places importance on. They are subjective by definition. He seems to be using the term "objective meaning" to refer to "objective moral values". "Objective values" is a contradiction in terms.
Perhaps you think he means something else by "objective meaning"? If so, what is "objective meaning"? How can we tell if it exists? How can we tell the difference between objective meaning and subjective meaning?
This young man has been educated beyond his intelligence!!
I don't think one can be educated beyond their intelligence. I don't know how you came up with this logic. It was definitely was beyond your intelligence that's for sure.
"when was the last time a child killed someone" I could bring up news articles of such acts, but its not my job to make everyone enlightened of today's world.
This man contradicts himself so much it's shocking!
Between 4:36 and 4:50 he states that: _"No child goes out and does what... the wicked things that adults do! Right? No child... okay, when's the last time... when was the last time a child murdered someone? Raped someone? Kidnapped someone? It's an absurdity!"_ only to contradict himself right after when he states (between 4:52 - 4:56): _"If your children were really so violent you would have them institutionalized! And there are some children like that..."_
Haters of the truth always contradict themselves.
Glad someone documented this.
This is what our schools do to us. The American public school system is an indoctrination of the kids.
😂😂😂 thank you for your time. I guess he can't hear himself when he opens his mouth.
Aw...this man is lost, so sad
You’ll notice he doesn’t have the podium. Not home turf vs an older opponent. If you win every interaction, you lose.
One child will push another child down a flight of stairs and think nothing of it.
The questioners book knowledge has failed...once again. “There’s a way that seems right but it leads to destruction “… praying for his salvation through Christ alone
😎✝️❤️
Yeah give him some Bible morality such as this - “If a man beats his male or female slave with a club and the slave dies as a result, the owner must be punished.”
Exodus 21:20 “But if the slave recovers within a day or two, then the owner shall not be punished, since the slave is his property.”
Exodus 21:21
MrLightning20
Well, your being Subjective for sure! I encourage you to read the other 65 books of the Bible starting with the Gospel of John.
Respectfully yours
BirdogEd I didn’t give you any of my opinions on this verse, you just said I’m being subjective after I quoted it. Am I being subjective if I quote John 3:16?
Last time someone said human are inherently good found stabbed to death somewhere in central asia.
I love Frank's calmness in this response. Very soft spoken and rational. Good stuff brother!
Emphasis on *soft spoken*
I see Frank, but where is his god? Where's Yeshua?
@@JamesRichardWiley Ummm, what would you like to see exactly, like Him standing in front of you personally?
@@JamesRichardWiley sir, I am afraid Yeshua isn't in His "normal" human state, He is risen long ago along with His body. He can exist in multiple places in the universe (all that there is) at a time and He can also NOT be inside Creation (all that there is)... If you expect Him to be at a specific place and time then he'd not be a true God.....
@@JamesRichardWiley (Addition to my comment)
According to Bible and the Gospel accounts, He's at the right hand of God's Throne, unfortunately according to Judaism and Christian theology that's just another way to explain in (edit correct spelling - "it") to the people at that time, and it's not an actual real material throne made with diamonds/golds/gemstones or something else. It just means that He's with God and that God has given power to Him over all the heaven and creation. It was easy for others in ancient times because they were familiar with kings and kingdoms somewhat.......
That's all for now... Have a nice day... And Feel free to ask any other questions you might have and I'll try my best....
I always admire the patience Frank has with these jerks.
This is not complicated, children do not have to be taught to do wrong, they have to be taught to do right, and right and wrong are objectively defined by God.
and you have yet to show your god to exist.
Alan Baraka and you are yet to show that God doesn’t exist
@@paddyod6305 you are correct. But I don't have to show your god doesn't exist any more than you have to show fairies don't exist. Why? Because the burden of proof rests on the one making the positive assertion. When theists claim their god exists they have a burden of proof to verify their claim. And until they do they don't get to act like their claim is already true. If that were the case I could do the same thing and say you haven't shown that fairies don't exist. This presumes that fairies do exist and that I showed they exist. Neither of which is the case. Same thing with god. You nor anyone else has shown thus far that a god can or does exist. Which is why evidence is needed.
@@alanbaraka9800
Well if it isn't Alan... the stalker. We believers don't have to show YOU that God exists, we couldn't anyway, because you lack the things necessary to accept any evidence presented to you; logic, reason, common sense and above all, honesty and humility. If you possessed these things you wouldn't be believing in fairy tales like darwinian evolution or that life can come from non-life or everything came from nothing. smh
@@rustyshadow7 "...right and wrong are objectively defined by God."
So are slavery, genocide, misogyny, homophobia and racism okay then? Also, if an evil god had created the universe, would murder be okay while altruism was immoral?
Poor Tony, he's so confused. He's alright though, pray for him.
Brando yeah he was not good in this debate. He needs to learn Bible morality like these 2 verses - “If a man beats his male or female slave with a club and the slave dies as a result, the owner must be punished.”
Exodus 21:20 “But if the slave recovers within a day or two, then the owner shall not be punished, since the slave is his property.”
Exodus 21:21
@@MrLightning20 Stop whining.
@@chungusultimate your words welcome the holy spirit. Blessed be his name! Thou shalt not deviate from the word of god or thou shalt perish, except Jesus saves and forgives you for your sins and you shall have everlasting life after death bc ye hath believed in the obvious indisputable truth. The souls of believers in Muslim, Mormonism, Buddhism, etc. shalt convert for their souls of avoiding eternal punishment. Jesus is the only way! For God gave his only begotten son that whosoever believeth in him shalt not perish but shall have everlasting life sayeth John 3:16. Sorry Jews. This is the day that the lord hath made. 🙌🙌🥰🥰
@@MrLightning20 Oh man, I thought you made fun of the bible, by supposdely quoting from the Mosaic law and taking it out of context.
I'm a brother in Christ man. blessed by the triune God!
@@chungusultimate no worries, I'm just merely quoting the bible not out of context. I think people should come in peace. 1 Timothy 2:8. I will therefore, men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands, without wrath or doubting. The holy spirit doesn't endorse wrath or doubting. Regardless of who we are when worshipping, black white Male or female, God loves and cares about everyone. 1 Timothy 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Don't let the devil deceive.
Romans 1:22
"Professing themselves to be wise they become fools"
You right
By saying that no one in the crowd has hit each other or cussed at each other proves that our default is selfish and violent not peaceful. The fact that we have to control our temper and actions points to a baseline that is quite contrary to peaceful.
Amen
The second biggest lie ever told: "People are basically good"
Define good?
@@johnhammond6423 Really? You wanna play that game?
@@johnnyappleseed5029 don't bother
Only one good and that is Jesus Christ. If you looked on one women to lust after her you already failed
Or women who lust after men.
I fail everyday. God help me.
@@choosejesus1910 If it's your sincere wish, fast and pray about it. God gonna set you free the spirit of lust.
If no man ever looked at a woman lustfully then there wouldn’t be any humans on the Earth. Human beings are sexual creatures. We are attracted to others and desire others from an evolutionary perspective so that we ensure the survival of our species.
soro vision Pastor Anderson had his channel shut down by RUclips just FYI
Two 18 month olds in a playpen with one toy shows you the heart of Man. Man is desperately wicked. Only a relationship with Jesus changes the heart. Great stuff Frank, so glad you do what you do.
This guy was amazing. Peaceful and with great arguments. Well done!
“No one in this room has managed to hit each other” a well timed (gentle) sock in his arm right at that moment would have been hilarious.
My thought was they aren't behaving in a violent fashion because they've all been raised in a judeo-christian culture according to the values of God the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit
@@qwertyqaz2227 agreed.
That _was_ painful (to watch). I'll pray for Tony... it's all I _can_ do. The rest is up to the Holy Spirit.
"When was the last time a child murdered someone?" I can think of a handful off the top of my head just in my country, in my lifetime. The killers of little Jamie Bulger for a start. Kids can be very cruel. He obviously doesn't spend much time around them.
Put this guy in a kindergarten classroom to get his mind right on that statement 😂
about 20 years ago while I was studying in Japan, a shocking incident that an elementary school student cut off his schoolmate's head and exhibited the head in front of the gate of the school, because the killer wanted to demonstrate the story from a comic book, I have left Japan and never go back again.
One insane person in an entire country and you leave the country?? Wherever you are living now there are insane people there too. I've been living in Japan for 11 years and it is infinitely safer than America.
Maybe because he was influenced by other things he saw or perhaps he had a disorganized family.
@@makokx7063 Maybe it scarred him cause the incident was nearby.
Yea, but that's Japan tho
When one is young .... one knows EVERYTHING. Perhaps someone needs to explain to Tony what took place in Rwanda ... or any of the other slaughters for that matter ....
To quote the late Ravi Zacharias, “He has his feet planted firmly in the air.”
To quote the late Ravi Zacharias. "I never touched those women."
@@B.S._Lewis oof hahahaha
Good job to the man who shared his world with frank and his audience. Thank you
(3:58) “It is in man’s nature to be loving and peaceful toward other people.”
😂
😳
Haha the look on Frank's face always kills me 😂😂...people complicate simple things
This guy doesn't believe humans are inherently evil he is clearly naive and just snarling at GOD
@I PIMP TROLLS Humans are both inherently "evil" and "good". It's not always so black and white
@@soulspiritghost2021 Humans learn to the "inherently evil" side of things.
no one cares
This is the most calming and civilized debate I’ve seen in a while. I wish more people acted like this we they disagree with each other
Everytime this question is asked it is the one question that is difficult to understand. If there is no standard (God) outside of you and me why is something right or wrong.
The development and purpose or "right and wrong" outside of religion is to create a peaceful, prosperous society. Most of us will go throughout our lives without being raped, murdered or stolen from because no one wants that to happen to themselves so we came together, said we will not do those things and agree to catch and punish those who do. 90% of logical morality can be derived from the golden rule.
Judgement at Neurumberg.
That's where this question played out.
The argument that the culture of Nazism had created became their normal.
They did as they were told and had been socialized to do.
The proceeding had to be stopped and one man had to take time (days) and prepare an explanation of why they were so terribly wrong and write the words out for them to explain objective morality and it's source and that the allies and members of the UN believed the same and practice morality in the predominant number of cultures in our world
Then the proceeding could continue.
I heard it explained by Cliffe Knectle on his videos.
I was a little skeptic about the title of this video, but yep, it was painful to watch 😂😂
4:50 hand goes out...”Tony...Tony... “
meaning: stop speaking, it’s going from bad to worst”
Human nature is a mix, it's not "bent towards evil", the reason kids can be selfish early on is because when you're a small weak creature, you have to care for yourself first if you're to survive at all. Kids don't have to be taught the golden rule, just as some animals perform the golden rule without being taught.
I think this person is deeply hurt by something. I watched a 2 hour video of a cross examined presentation the other day and this same person was on, he seems to be deeply angry at God and I hope he finds the truth about God.
Could you please share the link to the video you've mentioned? I'm interested in watching. Thank you.
I would like to see it too. please send a link if you have it.
Everyone by nature is at enmity against God. Only God can save someone.
I had a conversation with my best friend about this. He believed that morality was completely subjective. We fell into cultural relativism and historical contexts that justify certain practices. It actually bleeds over into the idea that truth itself is relative. Considering logically it’s not, he changed his mind on that and thankfully so. That’s a slippery slope.
Only because we make the assumption that logic/observation works.
Then yes truth becomes objective
The thing about this guy's argument is that he assumes human nature is inherently good and morally upright...
Boy do I have centuries of violence in mankind's history to prove you wrong!
Craig Bowen humans are inherently good? As Frank pointed out, you don’t have to teach a child to lie. I think what you meant is we have a degree of civility but when civility gets in the way of ambition (wealth, power, self preservation, etc.) we tend to disregard civility. Also, Christians are disingenuous with their actions because they are simply afraid of going to hell? Quite a generalization and misunderstanding of Scripture. Every person has their story, some experience healing, some turn to faith to escape emptiness of serving self, some experience meeting Jesus in a vision or another real way, the love of another Christian, etc. Also, Christians don’t fear hell because Christ paid the price. Salvation is not because of our good works but a free gift of God. We perform good works afterwards in love for God, which in turn, should lead us to love/serve others, rich, poor, men, women, the fortunate and disenfranchised etc. We learn to care for others because we understand God’s heart for all people, and by loving our brother/sister/neighbor/fellow human being, we are loving God.
Evolutionary speaking, morality exists. Humans are a group species and people who do something negative towards the group are excluded, making only people who work for the group, stay in the group
This is what the world says: "Do whatever what makes you feel good", "Be yourself", "Follow your heart", "It's my truth". But WHY??? 🤦♀
We need rules and laws in order to know if there's meaning in life
And so we made up gods
Aside from Frank brilliant knowledge of apologetics, I also love his example of patience with these guys. Somethubg we all need when witnessing
Ah, the boastfulness of a "modern" human who completely forgot how wild and savage humans were before the age of civilizations. Classic.
Tony is debating on shaky grounds about presumptions of human nature. There are many different theories on the 'state of nature' and I would argue that humans are naturally chaotic and selfish, not rational. Even for arguments sake, we live in a rational society where we do not want to harm each other. These are the results of society wanting protection from chaos, not because we are naturally rational. Even if it was argued that protection is rational, this claim does not infer that it is part of our nature because harm precedes protection. So it makes sense - in relation to social contract theory - that we are inclined to harm others by nature which is why we legislate protection laws.
And this brings my point about those assuming that atheists think people are good by nature. Please don’t, Hobbes was an outspoken atheist who argued the contrary. Not all atheists are going to have the same opinion about this.
Premise 1: Humans innately know what is good
Premise 2: Humans sometimes act differently from what they believe to be good.
Premise 3: What is good is objective and note merely subjective
Conclusion: Therefore, there is no need for a God to have objective good.
Problem 1: Begs the question - Premises assume the conclusion. The argument basically is saying because everyone knows what is good there is objective good (morality). How do I know what I know is good? Because I know its good. How do I know if my acting evil is me acting against my own beliefs? Because I know what is good.
Problem 2: Circular reasoning - self explanatory.
Problem 3: Self contradictory - because people individually determine what is good therefore there is objective morality.