Jordan Peterson Confronts Stephen Fry on “God is an Utter Maniac”
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- Опубликовано: 17 май 2021
- Some background info: On irish TV Stephen Fry was asked what he would respond if in the afterlife he wakes up at the gates of heaven. In his response he said that if God existed, he would be "utterly evil, capricious and monstrous". In this video, Jordan Peterson responds to this utterance.
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Stephen Fry is a noted British actor, writer, comedian, political figure, journalist, poet, intellectual and much more. You may have seen him in the films Chariots of Fire, A Fish Called Wanda, The Life and Death of Peter Sellers, V for Vendetta, Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows, and The Hobbit film series. He’s also served as the president of a mental health charity. Stephen’s list of accomplishments is far too long to list here.
Jordan Peterson is a professor of psychology at the University of Toronto.
They discuss god, religion, morality and Stephen Fry’s statement that god is an utter maniac.
#Peterson #Fry
Check out the full video, here: • An Atheist in the Real...
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As a dyslexic atheist insomniac, I’m often up all night wondering if there is a dog
Three sin't.
😂
Thats gold!
Very clever!
Brilliant
A real example of two men with very different political and social viewpoints having a thoughtful and respectful conversation on a topic that has brought people to violence for thousands of years.
If American politics worked this way, our nation would be immeasurably better off.
Unfortunately politicians feed off of drama. Being a Scottish man who is bombarded by the silliness of both American and English politics, I completely agree with you.
It could still be like that, if we remembered our old addages - things like "but words will never hurt me" and "I may not agree with you but I will defend your right to say it" in place of our new ones: "words are violence" and "if you don't understand then I'm not going to explain it to you."
The problem is in politics is that people have allowed governments to have the power to take resources from one group of people to give to another. In the conversation, neither man loses any resources with an unresolved disagreement. In politics, most often, the minority loses (at a minimum) their money or rights to supply enforcement and execution of someone else's desire.
The intelligent person is flexible in their beliefs and uses debate to learn and grow. A fool believes they have all the answers and uses debate to force their opinions.
The cornerstone of intelligence is the ability to change one's mind.
Here there is respect. Politicians today lack respect and that is what makes them failures.
Two men who disagree on much, having a discussion without talking over each other (much), and taking the time to actually listen to each other. Listening well is perhaps the greatest gift we can give other people, and it's always encouraging to see it happening.
Agreed
Only the calm,collected nature of Stephen forces Peterson to let the message across. As usual, Peterson has nothing to say that he can defend. He lets out ‘there may not be a god’
His aggressive nonsense only impresses those who don’t pay attention. No wonder Peterson has such a following amongst the ill educated. He truly believes in nothing, trlying on his passionate voice to get attention. Listen to few of his talks with intelligent people and u start to wonder how he made it so far. Well done Stephen. Respect.
Its down to manners, respect and a desire to learn from both of them.
@@billyranger2627he is not a stupid man but agree his arguments have no substance. All fancy word play with no points being made, unravels when he encounters somehow who knows what they're talking about.
@@davidwalker7110 u r right. I am at retirement age now. Have spent 3 decades watching all the gains made by people who just wanted good for ALL undone. Media , on the whole, is useless. Internet is being manipulated to keep all interested in shopping,sports and holidays. Breaks me. I am sure many others too. Trumps election there and Johnson across the pond, eased and facilitated by the same media power( 3 families own over 2000 outlets newspapers,radio,tv across the globe ..,) Schools teaching nothing of relevance, university forcing a debt lifestyle on which the modern post capitalist society is thriving. Equity and investment companies moving into residential housing (worldwide), accounting rules will allow them the luxury of keeping ,up to 30% of them vacant if they don’t get their high rents at no loss…… I can go on. Watching Peterson, more eloquent than Trump and his copies coming to power worldwide, makes me sick, angry making the Buddha’s way the only way for me to seek solace. The family feud between the people of the book -Christians Muslims Jews that has dictated the last 1000 years,at least, not seeming to end…." Sorry. I just get angry. Jordans of this world inflict untold damage. Way beyond their capacity to even comprehend. Sad.
I cannot overstate my respect and admiration for Stephen.
I do...He just thinks he's ultimately above God, because by saying what kind of a God allows suffering, well it goes back to the disobedience of our ancestral parents who did not obey God in the Garden of Eden. It is a simple as that. Today, there is so much evil and so much sin, I only have to watch televsion to see yet another man has killed a wife, an ex-girlfriend, called feminicide, that I do believe in a God who loves us and wants us to repent. There have been saints who loved God, giving their life over Christ in a consecrasted life, yet did not hold it against God, and eventually died too. I can't wait to get to Heaven because I have been baptised and hang on the Christ's apron strings for He claimed that anyone who sees Him sees the Father, and that noone goes to the Father except through Him. I accept all that He did, for He had 12 Apostles who were his eyewitnesses, more than one can say regarding others who rise up and claim to be a prophet of sorts. Well, Almighty God, appeals to humanity's faculty of reason to preannounce in whom we are to believe, so we don't miss him when he comes. The other stumbling block is that most other religions can't get their collective head around a God who can have a select race, in the Jews, the Israelites, with whom He communicated via his prophets, think Isaia, Moses, and so on. I pin my hopes in the religion of Love. No greater love is there than that a man would give his life for others, even when we were still sinners. That's Christ, no other guru, which when one thinks on it, is the concoction of a fertile mind. Sometimes force was used to drive someone to adhere to that philosophy and ideology which is none other than an evil regime. And, women are usually the ones who come off worst. Subjugation is real, and it is still happening today. Christianity is not about subjugating but liberating all people so we can be with Him and the angels and the saints in Heaven, once and for all. Amen to that. So ecstatic for this prospect.
Very good on The Morning Show. He's English but on a US show, which is rare these days.
They are both equally , very interesting and wonderful to listen too . Their respect for each other is very clear to see .
Well you haven't stated it at all, perhaps you loathe the man.
@@SISU889😂... no... peterson has nothing.
Stephen Fry saved my life and he'll never know as we've never met.
Found myself watching his programme about bipolar and the next day I changed my doctor and booked a session with a psychiatrist and finally got the help and diagnosis I'd been looking for my entire life.
Thanks Stephen 😎
It would please him to know this. I'm glad for you too.
Similar here in helping me to understand my wife's schizo affected disorder.
Bumped into Stephen (almost literally) in Boots at Picadilly Circus. Should I have said something? Just nodded and smiled, think that was right. Still wanted to chat though.
Praying is good. But praying and action works better (mostly).
well done ,,he is amazing ,,i wonder how many peoples lives have been enriched by him ,,i thought i would give this the usual speed read utube 2 min fix ,,,,but i stayed with the whole thing ,,,
Nice
I love how intelligent and non-confrontational Stephen fry is. HIs opinions are his, and he tries to tread carefully when dealing with important topics
It's because they are two intelligent people having a discussion why more people can't do this 😒
@@welshhomegrown934 Only Stephen is intelligent. There is no God, sorry
@@bazahaza Yes, I actually clicked on because I was surprised that Stephen Fry would talk to a pretentious nitwit like Jordan Peterson.
@@bazahaza whether you like Jordan or not, it is a little silly to say he isn't intelligent. Does he quite often speak on things he isn't expert on? Probably. But to say he isn't intelligent is just a falsehood.
Two people who yes are intelligent but also incredibly knowledgeable and articulate and these qualities give way to a wonderful dialogue. Anyone who considers Jordan an authority and in any way intelligent, must be willing to listen and hear his arguments without mindlessly dismissing the outright and logical argument for the evidence for a diety. To do that is stupidity at best and sheer obstinacy at worst.
Stephen looks amused, I can't help wonder what he's really thinking underneath his eloquent, polite and lovely self.
I believe he's annoyed by the word salad of Peterson.
He was best friends with Christopher Hitchens this is light work for Stephen
@@FmannnnI wish Christopher could have debated Jordan . Rip Hitch😢❤
@@FmannnnI love how they would call each other "old horse" "old crumpet" ❤
That he cant believe people take Peterson seriously.
Fry is excellent. His cool, articulate come backs are gold.
Gotta love that babbling old mess. His stupidity is amazing. I wish I could be more stupid.
I think my favourite thing about this discussion is the fact that both men make reference to numerous bodies of work and the other will immediately get the point the other was making because they have also read it and understand the main underlying principles of said work. I feel that it cannot be overstated how cool that is when a healthy discussion plays out like this.
So? Did they answer the question or confirm that "God is an Utter Maniac". And what exactly did you learn from this clip?
If there is a god then its not on a humanic level. To think of the child with a worm in its eye and not the point of view of the worm is predisposed. The think of cancer victims and not the prolific cancer cells is species bias. Its a game on a minor and major scale too vast to grasp any idea of a god
He enjoyed the respectful intelligent back and forth on the topic at hand. There's no popquiz.
@@mastermill79 So... then there was really no "confrontation".
My favorite part was when jordan had no ways of critiquing the quote of Fry.... but jordan knew it hurt his feelings and he didn't like it. Smh. After quoting fry i was expecting peterson to have some sort of critiquing but wow . Nothing
I deeply, and I mean DEEPLY respect two men who can have conflicting ideals and hash them out without savage capriciousness.
Very well said. I couldn’t agree more
It's wonderful to see respectful discourse without name calling and entrenchment.
That's because these two have evolved to another realm, the only difference is they have evolved in two different directions. The match they are playing out is like a game of tennis, the same game being played out with the majority, and the minority of the entire human race. One side is trying to deceive themselves to win over the other, and the other side is trying to win over self denial and deceit. That is what a psychologist is supposed to do.
Thats a big word that i now know
Yeah, I know what you mean. I find it really hard to stay reasonable, especially with religious apologists.
This level of calm yet intense,intelligent, respectful and genuinely curious and insightful conversation is absolutely the standard we should all attempt to attain
Not always. There is no god, so why spend time debating it?
@@laurencewhite4809 Lol, because thats an opinion not a fact. Facts ypu cant debate, opinions you can. And must!
@laurencewhite4809 spiderman is real, trust
Seriously. Yes. Well said
No condescension, no hyperbole, no anger... just two very intelligent men having an intelligent, amiable conversation.
Well, one very intelligent man and Jordan Peterson.
@@MichaelJohnson-kq7qg The fact you state Jordan Peterson isn't intelligent because he has opinions you disagree with suggests that if you were in a room with them, there'd be 2 intelligent people there and you'd not be one of them.
@@donmongoose learn to read, clownshoes. That's not what I said. Peterson is an extremely mediocre academician, an extremely derivative author, and a theological fraud. Nothing to do with whether I agree with him or not - I actually DO agree with him on his basic premise about reading religious texts as living documents, the difference is - he lies about it now.
@@donmongooseUsing big words doesnt make you intelligent. Peterson has gone utterly insane as of the last few years and most people can see it
@@Pigeon249 I don't think he's intelligent because he uses big words, I think he's intelligent because he can understand and converse on numerous complex subjects and offer meaningful explanations for different things. I'll certainly agree I find myself disagreeing with him a lot more than I used to a few years ago, but that doesn't mean he's suddenly turned stupid.
This is the only interview where I've seen Peterson REALLY have to explain every facet of his conclusions. And it's because Fry is WELL aware of the literature that Peterson bases his philosophies on. I would LOVE an in person dialogue between them.
I agree, it would be wonderful to see them together, but perhaps with an intermediary, as (though this is one reason I love them both) they can both tend towards getting a little off piste without mild direction lol
@@Smorans I think if they had a more structured debate with a preparation for the subject, it would be more focussed and direct, but I think it is equally enjoyable and important to see how different arguments and trains of logic can completely morph the subject of conversation.
@@bertiesaurus that’s a very good point. The Munk debate that featured them both was very enjoyable for that reason
It felt like Jordan was being assertive with his claims at first, and Fry who is a well-read intellectual actually digested what was said and picked it apart. And that's why it seemed like Jordan was changing the subject.
I'd hate to see how Jordan Peterson would be humiliated by the late Hitchens or perhaps Richard Dawkins.
@Sambo Jones ^
Fry is so calm, considerate, smart, articulate, warm and funny!
Exactly
@@macewindu9635 fry is false like the rest of you who believe in him fry loves £££
He's blasphemous!!! No he's not funny! I wouldn't touch that book with a bargepole!
He’s about as funny as cancer
@@cbvagabondThere is no such thing as blasphemy. It is a made up nonsense word about being offended rather than engaging (politely and respectfully) with someone. Plus you can’t offend something that doesn’t exist. Bizarre set of words.
Peterson is not trying to convince or out compete Fry, he's just enthusiastic about the topic and happy to have someone who is as interested in the topic to talk to.
A serious discussion between 2 intelligent respectful people ! No insults , no cursing!
This is very refreshing!
LOL no.
One intellectual and one pseudo intellectual
i dont know what is intelligent about jordan
I come from a place where winning a discussion is done by raising your voice or making fun of your opponent.
I find peace in my mind to know that there exist these intellectuals who can discuss ideas and concepts in a civilised manner
This is exactly how our members of parliament behave in the House of Commons in the UK.
Myzaffar Ahmad. In Malta where I live it is the same story. Healthy arguments are as rare as finding a chunk of gold in a Highway.
The irony is, the moment someone has to raise their voice or make fun of the opponent, they have already lost the argument because people that can't win an argument, usually try to deflect and to try and change the topic of the argument to something else that isn't related to the topic at hand.
So take comfort in that when an argument goes that way, you've won that argument and just let them rant like a loon.
It also helps if you understand a lot of psychology as it's remarkable how much information people give away by their body language, how they say things and other little hints.
It's funny because Jordan resorts to insulting and dismissing those who disagree with him all the time lmao. He has a whole channel where he professionally whines... about intentionally getting himself banned on Twitter lmfao.
AHMAD. These intellectuals discuss various topics out of curiosity, a desire to learn from one another - that is what makes them so interesting. They do not engage in argument (as you call it) in order to win but to learn. Only a proud man wants to win - that is why he will always make a fool of himself. How silly. What is there to win? All you want to do is show off how clever you are or at least show that you are cleverer than the other person and that is just vanity.
Yes. Adults in conversation. Philosophising. Our planet and people sorely need these kind of contemplations and respectful communications.
Correct. These gentlemen are well- educated, honourable and civilized, as opposed to many idiots predominant in this world who talk without logic
I love your username. Excellent. And I agree with your comment . Thanks.
Bekindtoanimals. Spot on 👍👍👏
I totally agree with you! Each person may may his/ her opinion as long as it does not inflict potential harm to the other person eg, being derogative, vulgar, racist or anti- Semitic. Respect for all decent people
Still seems like this conversation went over most people's heads unfortunately...
Stephen Fry is amazing. Absolute legend of a human.
I miss him on Q.I.
Yes yes.❤❤❤❤❤
So great to hear stupid ignorance but in a posho voice.
that was a privilege to listen to that discussion
I find listening to both Stephen Fry and Jordan Peterson to be a very pleasing experience. They're examples of our ability to discuss and disagree using words. Polite words. Polite words and eloquence. We need more of this ability in society.
It's a natural human reaction to feel insulted when someone disagrees with you, it's also very ignorant and anyone who thinks like that should assess their thought process
Civilised.
Amen😅
@@VikingOlberg-NymoenOfNorway Amen ? That is a religious word .
@@alainmaitre2069 Well arent you a true comedian. You cant fix stupid I've heard.
Best quote from Stephen Fry, when he was at school:
Teacher: "Stop trying to be clever"
Stephen: " Ok . how how stupid do you want me to be?"
'So then the question is what is the appropriate attitude, given that the argument that you make is an actually extraordinarily powerful argument, and I don't know the answer to that, but I do know, I think, that resentment and anger, and even the motive that would make you want to say that to God himself I think, that's probably not helpful.
I came to that with great difficultly, I've had my reasons to be angry, especially recently, because I am suffering from a lot of pain and it makes me resentful and angry and wanting to shake my fist, but I found on intense consideration that there was nothing in that that didn't make it worse and therefore that must be wrong, even though it's justifiable.'
He said this on May 18, 2021.
In March 2021 Jordan had his second Saturn return, (activating his natal Saturn-South Node/Mars/Neptune T-square), and Neptune square his Sun, followed in April by Uranus activating the same T-square. Ouch. When you look at the severity of the hard aspects in his and his wife's birth charts you gain a lot of understanding regarding the wisdom of this couple, it is to a large extent wisdom gained from pain.
So, here we have two brilliant men completely oblivious about an extremely important aspect of the nature of the universe they live in, discussing their interpretations of the nature of the universe, while millions stare in awe, goggle-eyed at their astoundingly impressive levels of intellectual prowess.
Just reinforcing the value of the gift of astrology we have been given.
Commoners, less-educated laypersons, unemployed losers, stoners, hippies, housewives, just ordinary people, all with a better grasp of the playing field than many of the best minds on the planet.
"Do you see a man wise in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him." A proverb of Solomon
Adrian hopping on one leg over the grass.
Teacher: Can't you read , boy?
Adrian:Yes, Sir. I'm very good at reading!
Teacher: The sign clearly says not to walk on the grass!
Adrian: Not walking, Sir. Hopping!
@@laststand6420 Sounds like the sort of rhetorical nonsense that the bible is full of.
@@mnomadvfx I will pray for your lost soul, that you may be blessed.
Enjoyed the conversation, but why is it I understand Steven Fry so easily and find Jordan Peterson so convoluted?
It's called obfuscation. 😂 he needs to learn to speak plainly. Language is a beautiful thing but I find it exhausting listening to him too...
It reminds me of the words of Richard Feynman; "If you can't explain something in simple terms, you don't understand it"
@@StevieWyatt This one annoys me though, as it's completely untrue.
It means that you can't communicate your understanding. There is no valid argument beyond that.
i think the way in which fry speaks in what is close to rp english definitely helps his cause with a lot of people, not saying ur one of those but that accent undeniably opens doors in the entire english speaking world
He's one the best word salad makers in the world
I feel Fry is being very, very patient.
Peterson seems to be losing his mind
I feel Peterson is very very patient
He is and always has been, he's a gentle beautiful man with great sadness from looking at the world. Peterson is a right wing dog whistle using psudointolectual language while masquerading as a scientist (he's on the sociology side of an already dubious science).
@liam7342 Peterson is also somewhat disingenuous. He constantly waffles around his Jungian concept of religion because he knows that most of his followers are right-wing Christians. Most of them wrongly assume he isn't an atheist.
@@liam7342 I'll mention you in preyer tonight. God bless
The way they respect and communicate with each other while having a healthy conversation about a very controversial topic is to be admired.
Sorry to respectfully disagree, this wasn't a healthy conversation. Jordon Peterson took a quote out of context and attacked it for being morally wrong. The first half of this is them talking past each other. Jordon Peterson struggles immensely to imagine a world where a god doesn't exist where Stephen fry can easily switch between the two ideologies.
When JP lays his arguments about whether we have to make meaning for ourselves or ordained by God, Fry just laughs in his face because it's such a stupid statement. All of his supporting arguments end up being calls to authority, ie god. Something that Stephen already clearly stated he doesn't believe in.
I'm gonna have to go back and watch some of those lectures again with a critical ear because fuck there's something really slanted about the things he says today
Peterson is an intellectual lightweight in comparison to Stephen Fry. Surprised he didn't start crying again like most of his recent conversations. Man lost it after his benzo addiction.
Nah, Peterson doesn't respond to people. He goes off on bizarre tangents rather than replying directly. He doesn't communicate well at all when it comes to religion, he just starts spouting word salad.
@@Frederik_uk saw no attack he started with it which fry knew he was Gona start off with it's a great starter to clarify things
@@jamesfisher1808 Are you deaf? JP starts with a quote which JP presents as Fry's genuine belief and say it's morally wrong. What JP did was attack the straw man. Not grapple with any genuine philosophy.
If anyone is interested in a serious conversation about this look at the Cambridge debate on free will with Stephen fry and other genuine philosophers. It's titled: This House Believes Free Will Does Not Exist | Cambridge Union
Hate to say it, this is the one time I've seen JP on toast. "You're not being helpful" is not a good response to "if you believe in a good god, why does he give children cancer or create bugs who's only existence is cause blindness in kids". JP had NO answer. I wish Stephen Fry would do more of these debates because he is a real sage, ruthless intellect and wit that we are losing from socirty all too quickly. Viva Mr Fry.
correct. Peterson is angry with god because he believes in a god and he is saying that is not helpful. Fry's angry is merely rhetorical. It is not about anger - helpful or not - it is about what is true. But to be fair Peterson does say he has no solution or answer to the problem of suffering.
@@LPCLASSICAL well, God declared the end from the beginning and all the way to ancient times, things that are not done. Think of us a just chess pieces and God is the grand master against his adversary the devil. All of the suffering and triumph and loss and relief that we experience is all planned out before the foundation of the world. For whom he did foreknow he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that they be first born among many brethren. He is the LORD God, he makes alive, he wounds, he heals. He will have mercy on whom he will have mercy on.
@@LPCLASSICAL jp is speaking as a psychologist. Mentally what is best is not always what is objectively true but what is helpful. From a cbt perspective.
Since there is not much objective truth to be found anyways, might as well be happy.
@@aut0mat1c11 I mean yeah, except none of that is real. So, there's that.
@@DH-og5yr Yes I acknowledge that. Delusions can make you happy and be a positive force and help you achieve goals. Like Dumbo's magic feather. Personally - I prefer to live my life free from unjustified beliefs - even at the cost of happiness. But each to their own way.
Great conversation. Listening to eachother and using reflection. Its not about,who is right,but sharing thoughts & respecting eachother pov. Thank you for posting this. ❤
The biggest problem with this discussion is that it shows us how a discussion and debate (with disagreement) should be done ... and now we have to go back and watch our politicians (of all sides) wholly fail to do it right!
This here is the conclusion people should draw. Not the "Oh X was patient".
Why does Jordan sound like he’s always on the brink of tears?
Because sometimes he is (though it's not that common, honestly, so I wouldn't say, 'always'). As it turns out, Fry has the same problem/thing when dealing with really serious subjects (God/debates, for example). More common for Jordan, though. Of course, one reason is that Fry, and others, are not as emotionally attached/serious about it, so they don't have to worry as much: they just say, 'God is evil' and walk away, whereas, Jordan says, 'man is evil' and sits down. Big difference between those two frameworks and levels of depth. I saw Fry get very upset once, for example, when he was saying that, 'we don't need pain/suffering to know/be happy -- you can just be happy'. Of course, that's completely incorrect from a biological/objective standpoint, and I also think a psychological/subject standpoint, as well. That would be his 'soft liberal' coming out and his shallow bias towards everything religious, including the basic reality itself: life is suffering -- and to know happiness, you must also know pain, otherwise, you have no sense of what 'happiness' even means, or why these states exist and matter, nor their purpose; in fact, the problem with leftist types to begin with is they think the purpose of life is to just be mindlessly happy, even at the cost of the future itself and stability, etc. Very different frameworks here. And Jordan is extremely invested, where most public thinkers/speakers are not (Jordan is also just more emotional than a lot of the leftist public thinkers/speakers, so they are much more without emotion overall). Not really a bad thing, though, as it's partly what helps Jordan be who he is, of course, and to do his job, and care about it (for the last 45 years, anyway).
Well didn't you hear him? He had dealt with a lot of severe health issues and its very clear the pain from that has scarred him physically and emotionally.
@@Cerealcasual I think its also because he is a clinical psychologist and deals with people in their pain.
It's his go-to credibility bandaid when he knows his argument is on thin ice.
@@Banjomute lol
This is proof that there is an art to argument, a lost art, that many fail to realize exists. Arguments do not make us enemies. Arguments should strengthen the bonds between two people, and allow us to appreciate one another more based upon the language used between us, as opposed to making enemies of us.
I would say debating, but yes, I see what you meant.
Some people are very good at arguing and finding fault ... but they could never debate like this. You can only fully understand your own point if you have fully taken the opportunity to understand the extent of somebody else’s first.
I LOVE debate
LOVE IT!
I would say discussion, in arguments you try to win, I see discussion as an attempted to understand the other person
In the meantime Johnn has a contract w/ his boss to slave tomorrow until 1100pm on an extra shift. At the same time the boss will be banging his wife, and John's friend knows who is also sleeping with his wife, and his sister.
Of whom 2 agreed to kill John, and 1 wants to kill his wife, so he can have a subbing relationship w/ John's boss. Whom would never agree, but the sub has connections with John's boss his true connection who decides the funds that go to John's boss his company, being the only supplier, and promised him John's wife.
John thinking he will get a promotion, while even his sister is neutral and has a relation with their supplier.
The real question is would she sell out John, or his wife?
These are highly intelligent men on opposite sides of a belief system. The uncivil vitriol we see from a majority of politicians (left and right) are because they are overwhelming unintelligent, useless, and incompetent fools.
I love Stephen Fry - he is so humble and has such a beautiful mind.
I agree, but my wife hates him for his arrogance and hypocrasy. Funny old world.
Two guys with opposite views discussing it properly and not arguing. How refreshing it is. Love both these guys
This type of discussion is sorely missing in our world today. Two remarkably intelligent men who fundamentaly disagree on a topic but respectfully discuss it.
Totally agree with everything you say. We have lost the art, skill and mostly even the will to debate with intelligent debate. So refreshing and stimulating to hear this.
How can there be a disagreement over religion? It isn't real. Anybody arguing it is clearly isn't a very intelligent person.
Amazing what happens when you are able to put egotistical pride to the side. Having an understanding that being wrong leads to more correct understanding. I find i difficult sometimes especially if the correction comes from a youth. Appreciated none the less.
@@ElShmiablo Religion is very real. I think you're more likely to be questioning the existence of a diety. But this is a huge part of the excellence of this conversation. Rational dialogue, intelligently informed and debating in both directions. It's a wonder to behold. It's not just unsubstantiated arguments but assertions underpinned by evidence on both parts. This is the gross error people fall into. They don't consider the evidence. So they make simplistic and sweeping statements which if challenged they could simply not support or substantiate.
Exactly. If only our politics was carried out in the same way
I love Stephen Fry. Each time I listen to him, I'm staggered by his intellect. The ability to construct arguments as he does quoting references so freely is stunning. I can't remember why I came upstairs 😂
Was it to get your shoes? I always leave my shoes upstairs, for some reason.😄
@@robertwright7937 ha. It usually starts me going upstairs for my phone charger, once there I see a shirt that needs hanging up. Then I remember a toilet roll needs replacing in my ensuite bathroom. So I come downstairs to collect a toilet roll. Once downstairs, I check the front door is locked. It isn't so I look for the keys. The place where I keep my keys, is also where I keep my lottery tickets. I see there's a lottery ticket and decide to check it. So far, no phone charger, no toilet roll and front door still unlocked. I could go on but you get the picture ha. Ha.
@@troubadour1562 I think we're both the same, mate. I was looking for my phone the other day. I was talking on it at the time.🥴👍
@@robertwright7937 brilliant! 🤣
Staggered by his mind but don't ypu ask who designed those minds. Simple minds still lost in their human foibles lmao
This is like a conversation between the smartest kid in school who likes to show off how smart he is…. And Stephen Fry, an intellectual.
I used to think that too, that was before he told those poor boys that they had no right to complain about the sexual abuse they suffered, and that he was definitely not biased against such victims.
This was after he was nominated for an award but did not win. That is the measure of Mr Fry to me, spiteful and bitter - without responsibility but a fairly good actor when the money is good.
Douglas Murray is an intellectual, Stephen Fry is just a snobby loudmouth to me. I was disgusted by his diatribe and the apology was even more sickening. Totally insincere, even sneering.
@@DailyCorvid- That doesn’t sound like the Stephen Fry I know… not seen where he said that… d’you have a link?
Moral coward! I posted three links and three times you have reported or removed them somehow. You asked and I answered, censorship is not what I would consider to be fair debate especially when you are so heavily biased against a man who is demonstratably BAD.@@Milkydrummer
LOL Google has about 700 articles when you search for Stephen Fry Criticism, he's done tonnes of dumb stuff.
Way more than the 3 things I knew about! Why do people idolise this weird guy he's clearly a horrible little man who treats other people like dirt when it suits him to.
fraudulent intellectual. He is a drunk imo.
Fry is awesome, a properly rounded and well read philosopher. Peterson doesn't quite get it at all, full of word salad. I don't understand why people rate him so highly, his fundamental starting point is flawed.
Thank you both for a wonderful example of passionate respectful discussion. So very interesting, I thoroughly enjoyed your interaction.
I don't ever want this to end. It's so professional, respectful, interesting. Imagine what would happen if more of us could have conversations like this. Especially involving politics and things that could make a real difference in our world.
From a scientific perspective, God couldn't exist because he or she or it would have to go backwards in time and forwards time. Forwards in time is possible under our understanding of time but backwards is improbable due to that same understanding
@@jacdimond I don't believe in god, but the laws of physics don't apply to the creator of the universe. To say that "God can't go back in time because our understanding of time suggests that it is impossible" is an invalid argument.
@@vitorodino8760 who is "the creator of the universe"?
@@vitorodino8760 that's an opinion, not a fact as you cannot prove God is real or not so therefore cannot prove that God is exempt to the laws of physics. Therefore every possible scenario is valid until disproven 😉
Jordan Peterson and Stephen Fry having a mutually beneficial conversation is DOPE 😎. This has nothing to do with the video but please listen if you want to otherwise leave it alone and ignore it. Hello my name is Justin and I'm a Christian and Apologist but I'm also a college student. I'm not a closed minded Theist as I have nothing against Atheists or unbelievers as I speak to them often to understand their reasons for unbelief but we as Christians are convinced of God's Existence due to many real factors). I'm not trying to convert anyone or convince anyone to become Christians as that's The Holy Spirit's job to help people believe but only explain why I believe in Jesus Christ. There's actually evidence of God's Existence in Christianity. First of all there's proof that Jesus of Nazareth existed in history since the writings of Tacitus, Josephus Flavius, Pliny the younger and other historical documents prove that He was living two thousand years ago that even scholars both religious and Atheists agree with historically speaking but not that He's The Divine Son of God because obviously they don't.
I'm going to give you historical and archeological evidence for God's Existence as The Scriptures have prophecies that predate the events recorded in them by several millennia including Matthew, Hosea and Zechariah which prophesy accurately of the people of Israel becoming a nation again after over 1900 years of being scattered around the nations since the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in 70 A.D. spoken of by Christ in Matthew 23:29-24:3 and returning to their homeland after The Holocaust with Jerusalem as their capital in 1948 exactly as Jesus The Christ said. The prophets including Daniel spoke of the time where several world empires would arise and fall including the Babylonian kingdom, Medes and Persians, Roman Empire, and Saladin and the Muslims which went in consecutive order for the past few millennia. The people of Israel becoming a nation after The Holocaust in 1948 (ironically the melting point of gold as God compares Israel to gold that's tested in fire in Zechariah 13:8 and Jeremiah 16:15) exactly how Jesus The Christ said would happen since God us everything to come in The Scriptures and not just because people were working towards as Atheists claim which are impossible for any regular man to predict.
Just before anyone says Christianity is a white man's religion made to oppress blacks during slavery you obviously aren't aware that the first Christians were Jews in The Middle East and that Christianity just like any religion can be used by evil and corrupt people to oppress others but you forget that the first Abolitionists/Civil Rights activists were Christians who sought to abolish slavery, racism, segregation, injustice and prejudice throughout American history. Jesus The Christ loves you enough not to give you what we all deserve which is God's Wrath by His Own Blood. Charles Darwin didn't originally come up with The Theory of Evolution over 200 years ago as it is mentioned in the writings of Ancient Greeks who believed in Demons that gave knowledge to philosophers.
Evolution makes no sense when nothing has evolved after thousands of years of human history and supposedly the first creature came from primordial sludge several millions of years
ago funny how they won't believe that God an Eternal Almighty Spirit Being created us from the Earth) which came from a supermassive expansion of matter at high temperature that inexplicably created everything in the known universe that supposedly came from nothing billions of years ago. How did the organs evolve before there were bones, skin, substance and how did any creatures see before eyes evolved? I've studied evolution and abiogenesis in the past and read Darwin's " Origin of The Species" I've studied evolution and abiogenesis in the past and read Darwin's " Origin of The Species" and I'm not convinced of but not macro or micro Evolution because there's no evidence of it nor clear observable examples of it where living creatures evolve into other kinds of species plus the fact that fossils don't show evidence of evolution and genetic entropy rules out evolution. The question begs how did two genders evolve from a common ancestor with a perfectly hospitable and sustainable environment with breathable oxygen and resources to survive on inexplicably? Atheists have the burden of proof to explain how everything came to be and why our existence is possible without the Existence of God from an godless perspective just as Christians have to provide evidence of God's Existence and the validity of His Word.
Evolution requires life to already exist in order to take any effect in living organisms so it doesn't account for the existence of Life and reality. Also evolution is impossible because it goes against The Law of entropy and the second Law of thermodynamics because evolution makes things better whereas nothing continues to get better but decays and turns to absolute destruction in the end. Mark Ridley an Evolutionist said "No evolutionist whether gradualist or punctuationist uses the fossil record as evidence in favor of The Theory of Darwinian Evolution as opposed to special Creation". God's Existence is made perfectly known and observable in the universe as demonstrated in His Handiwork in the intelligently designed manner that Creation was made, human consciences and consciousness historical and archaeological evidence of God's Word being valid history, fulfillment of Bible Prophecies God in His Holiness and Righteousness could give us what we deserve in Hell for our since but He's merciful to give us free will to choose to accept or reject His gift of salvation by grace through faith in His Son Jesus. I don't mean this is any condescending manner but if you'd like to discuss The Scriptures with me or have me listen to your view on anything my instagram account is Savage Christian Kombatant.
Two brilliant men having a conversation. Just a privilege to listen to.
Absolutely. I enjoyed every minute of the full interview. When those extraordinary men speak, ordinary men like me shut up and listen. With joy ;)
Well, one brilliant man. Peterson’s schtick is initially impressive but over the years you realize there’s not much depth there.
@@jtl909 It was never vaguely impressive to me. He's a raving idiot.
One brilliant man, and a charlatan.
And yet if just one were another color...
In a situation where you have no idea what the conversation will entail or what direction it will take, where there's no preparation, there's very few people on the planet who could keep pace with Fry.
What a pleasure watching two men of opposing views having a decent and respectful conversation. So it's mostly about being humane and decent rather than intellectual.
A great respectful discussion of opposing views...
We need more of this in the world today.
This is the way I live my whole live and it getting harder every day.
Exactly. Many people lack the ability to engage in social interactions period much less mutually beneficial conversations with those who will disagree with them. Jordan Peterson and Stephen Fry having a mutually beneficial conversation is DOPE 😎. This has nothing to do with the video but please listen if you want to otherwise leave it alone and ignore it. Hello my name is Justin and I'm a Christian and Apologist but I'm also a college student. I'm not a closed minded Theist as I have nothing against Atheists or unbelievers as I speak to them often to understand their reasons for unbelief but we as Christians are convinced of God's Existence due to many real factors). I'm not trying to convert anyone or convince anyone to become Christians as that's The Holy Spirit's job to help people believe but only explain why I believe in Jesus Christ. There's actually evidence of God's Existence in Christianity. First of all there's proof that Jesus of Nazareth existed in history since the writings of Tacitus, Josephus Flavius, Pliny the younger and other historical documents prove that He was living two thousand years ago that even scholars both religious and Atheists agree with historically speaking but not that He's The Divine Son of God because obviously they don't.
I'm going to give you historical and archeological evidence for God's Existence as The Scriptures have prophecies that predate the events recorded in them by several millennia including Matthew, Hosea and Zechariah which prophesy accurately of the people of Israel becoming a nation again after over 1900 years of being scattered around the nations since the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in 70 A.D. spoken of by Christ in Matthew 23:29-24:3 and returning to their homeland after The Holocaust with Jerusalem as their capital in 1948 exactly as Jesus The Christ said. The prophets including Daniel spoke of the time where several world empires would arise and fall including the Babylonian kingdom, Medes and Persians, Roman Empire, and Saladin and the Muslims which went in consecutive order for the past few millennia. The people of Israel becoming a nation after The Holocaust in 1948 (ironically the melting point of gold as God compares Israel to gold that's tested in fire in Zechariah 13:8 and Jeremiah 16:15) exactly how Jesus The Christ said would happen since God us everything to come in The Scriptures and not just because people were working towards as Atheists claim which are impossible for any regular man to predict.
Just before anyone says Christianity is a white man's religion made to oppress blacks during slavery you obviously aren't aware that the first Christians were Jews in The Middle East and that Christianity just like any religion can be used by evil and corrupt people to oppress others but you forget that the first Abolitionists/Civil Rights activists were Christians who sought to abolish slavery, racism, segregation, injustice and prejudice throughout American history. Jesus The Christ loves you enough not to give you what we all deserve which is God's Wrath by His Own Blood. Charles Darwin didn't originally come up with The Theory of Evolution over 200 years ago as it is mentioned in the writings of Ancient Greeks who believed in Demons that gave knowledge to philosophers.
Evolution makes no sense when nothing has evolved after thousands of years of human history and supposedly the first creature came from primordial sludge several millions of years
ago funny how they won't believe that God an Eternal Almighty Spirit Being created us from the Earth) which came from a supermassive expansion of matter at high temperature that inexplicably created everything in the known universe that supposedly came from nothing billions of years ago. How did the organs evolve before there were bones, skin, substance and how did any creatures see before eyes evolved? I've studied evolution and abiogenesis in the past and read Darwin's " Origin of The Species" I've studied evolution and abiogenesis in the past and read Darwin's " Origin of The Species" and I'm not convinced of but not macro or micro Evolution because there's no evidence of it nor clear observable examples of it where living creatures evolve into other kinds of species plus the fact that fossils don't show evidence of evolution and genetic entropy rules out evolution. The question begs how did two genders evolve from a common ancestor with a perfectly hospitable and sustainable environment with breathable oxygen and resources to survive on inexplicably? Atheists have the burden of proof to explain how everything came to be and why our existence is possible without the Existence of God from an godless perspective just as Christians have to provide evidence of God's Existence and the validity of His Word.
Evolution requires life to already exist in order to take any effect in living organisms so it doesn't account for the existence of Life and reality. Also evolution is impossible because it goes against The Law of entropy and the second Law of thermodynamics because evolution makes things better whereas nothing continues to get better but decays and turns to absolute destruction in the end. Mark Ridley an Evolutionist said "No evolutionist whether gradualist or punctuationist uses the fossil record as evidence in favor of The Theory of Darwinian Evolution as opposed to special Creation". God's Existence is made perfectly known and observable in the universe as demonstrated in His Handiwork in the intelligently designed manner that Creation was made, human consciences and consciousness historical and archaeological evidence of God's Word being valid history, fulfillment of Bible Prophecies God in His Holiness and Righteousness could give us what we deserve in Hell for our since but He's merciful to give us free will to choose to accept or reject His gift of salvation by grace through faith in His Son Jesus. I don't mean this is any condescending manner but if you'd like to discuss The Scriptures with me or have me listen to your view on anything my instagram account is Savage Christian Kombatant.
Yes both listening to the other without trying to shout each other down which is standard today. And able to listen to the other's POV with the intention of trying to understand rather than prove oneself the victor.
This is what a thoughtful, mature, sensible conversation is. No demeaning or condescending words against each other. This is an art of communication that is getting lost. Imagine what a better world this would be if ppl could talk to each without all the hatefulness.
Because very few people are in the level of intelligence and understanding these two guys have. Unfortunately for us.
@@Sparkpark228 not to forget eloquence and well built vocabulary.
@@Sparkpark228 That's a pedantic opinion. It has nothing to do with intelligence. There's plenty of intelligent discussions on RUclips that are unsufferable. What's outstanding about this conversation is the mutual respect that they have for each other despite their differences. That's what is lacking in our modern culture, the ability to dissasociate ourselves and others from ideas, and this emerges from an ethic or a value, not from an inherited ability such as intelligence.
I think they come at this from emotional intelligence, they are listening to each other’s perspective and neither one is pushing from an ego that needs to be “right”
Education and the championing of education and intellectual curiosity has been lost - and social media algorithms are essentially creating cults of misinformation. Most people can't have a conversation like this because they simply lack the education that gives CONTEXT (and specifically, historical context) to ideas. Hence: I disagree with you = violence. At least 75% of the planet couldn't even follow this dialogue. Most people don't even understand *why* they believe what they believe.
Mr. World Salad was clearly tense when confronted with the intellect of Stephen Fry
Outstanding conversation!
That was great to listen to. This is the way a good discussion goes. You consider and accept criticism of your opinion without rancour, and so the conversation can continue, and both are enriched by it. No-one has to win.
Not quite. It was simply the Socratic method at work. The idea being to draw out underlying suppositions and figure out what best fits the empirical data provided by both parties in the debate when all of that empirical data is looked at as a whole. In general, more often than not, one person is right and the other wrong. (occasionally, it turns out to be purely relative and down to a matter of perspective). If they're both clever, the participants both learn something from the exchange. One gets the step up provided by replacing incorrect knowledge with correct knowledge and the other gains conformation in the accuracy of their own knowledge. In that, it is, in a way, about winning. About being right. More importantly, figuring out what is right and what is wrong. It's why people debate to begin with. Its also why so many find it hard to debate without arguing and being salty.
I think they both won. And we, listeners, got all the spoils as well.
@@graveyardstudio3503 respect is what makes them 50/50 . This is how you communicate & don't lose your self in your ideology & what you identified you self to. God is ever loving & has no form. My opinion not fact.
Bullshit.You have to argue your case.Stephen Fry is just being diplomatic because he is a decent guy.I can't stand people like you who think all discussion must be diplomatic and friendly.No.This is what is wrong with the World.
We need the full video of this discussion
The entire conversation was an amazing conversation with nothing but mutual respect between both men.
You are a fool.
That's only because Fry realised that his usual bullying strategy would not work and that Peterson is a lot smarter than he is. So he toadied up to him. Utterly ghastly man.
@Doge di Amalfi Fry is a schoolyard bully, nothing more. He hates being cut down to size.
@@RodFleming-World Stephen fry is way more intelligent than Jordan peterson and your pathetic attempt to discredit him doesn't wash with anyone who's not just brainwashed by religion.
Furthermore your attempt to paint Fry as anything but an immensely respectful intellectual is just showing how much of an bully you are, and not him
@@Vilutusk keep crying, you're amusing.
Now this is how a debate and robust discussion should be had it is one of the most important skills to have and it is a pleasure to view to utterly impressive conversation
Great dialog - thank you for sharing.
My contribution to this conversation, if I was there:
"I saw Fast and Furious 9 the other day..... it was all right."
I read "it was all right" in Karl Pilkington's voice.
@@kamranabbas2438 lol even better!
karl pilkington would make this conversation so much more amazing
@@fusakei1825 "what are you on about?" 😂
Cathy Newman, "So, you're saying..."
The thing with these two guys that they do right is:-
1) They actually listen to each other and wait for the other person to finish their point.
2) Each respects the other person and allows the other to have an opposing view.
3) Both are well-read and deep thinkers. They read literary works. Most people on Twitter get their world view from the newspaper.
4) They are open-minded, and even if both still hold the same position, they are open to furthering their understanding of the opposing viewpoint. Their aim in discussing and debating is to learn, not to "win".
5) It is not about "right" and "wrong" but viewpoint.
It is a recognition that opinion is different from fact.
6) Neither is wed to their viewpoint, nor devolve to name,-calling or questioning of the other's morality or credentials. They break down the argument without breaking the person.
7) There is no hostility or oversensitivity. No questioning of someone's motives for thinking a particular way.
8) I could be wrong, but I sense that these two know that, though they know a lot (given their referencing of literary works and philosophy) that they still don't know everything, so are open to learning something new from their opponent, something they didn't know before. Opposite to those on social media who think they know it all, and aren't open to opposing viewpoints.
Those who use Twitter could learn a lot of lessons from these two.
Imagine thinking Peterson is a deep thinker and well-read.
@@philovermyer6166 & what makes you believe that he isn't?
@@shaneoshea6216 Because if you strip away all the verbosity of his comments they are really shallow or on the verge of r/stonerthoughts levels of nothing throughout all his works.
@peter hany Yeah, because the problem of evil/problem of suffering is really solved by "but no dude if you get upset at god for being an asshole, you're actually the asshole". Genius stuff from Peterson, he's such a smart guy. OMG and that baller stuff about cleaning your room and women being chaos dragons, just top tier smart stuff from a very emotionally stable and very smart man.
well said wow
The difference between these two guys, I think, is that Peterson is clever and very well read but Fry is of a superior natural intellect as well as being extraordinarily well read. They’ve both had their demons but I feel that Fry has overcome them while Peterson is still grappling and possibly losing the fight…he seems desperately fragile emotionally.
This is just such a great discussion. I highly value (most of) the opinions of both these men in general, so watching them argue is just mind-blowing!
I did not see any confrontation. I saw two men discussing one of mankind's most difficult questions. Mad respect for both of them. Jordan's recent painful chapter in his life has set him on a path that we are all getting a chance to share in.
That kind of thing doesn't exist here in Brazil: a calm, logic-based conversation between two opposing intellectuals. How I wish the world was more like this!
peterson logical, when?
Sometimes logic just likes to hear itself speak with no step closer to a conclusion or closure.
As he said, our moral can't be changed, in Brazil we have the illusion of arguing about political or religious things, but we're actually trying to change peoples inner morals, a guy worship a president not for his work, but because he identify with his prejudice, we don't listen things we don't agree. Thats why these two are awesome. They talk to learn about others perspective.
@@BugRod64 Get a hold of a dictionary and look up it's meaning. Then give understanding another shot.
It doesn't exist many other places as well unfortunately.
When JP struggles to control the conversation with his usual word salad, he turns on the tears.
😂👌
Stephen fry is a genius - he knows what is what and tells it how it is!!!
True. It’s rather comical to see an intelligent person like Jordan or Ben Shapiro suddenly become flustered when arguing faith. Life experience and facts are thrown out the window and they seem to mostly rely on quotes from great philosophers or authors.
How blessed are we all to live in a world where we can witness conversations like these no matter where we are in the world. It was not always so.
Its sad to see how jordan has deteriorated following his traumas and struggle with addiction. The jordan of two/three years ago was far less agenda-driven. His level of emotion and nervous-energy here made it more of a battle than a genuine conversation. Fry clearly greatly respects petersons impressive intelligence because here i see thst fry is humouring jordans borderline-neurotic intensity. A discussion between these two three years ago would have been a more healthy one
@@phantasticmrphasma9874 Peterson has always been a very obvious grifter. That you didn't catch on until recently isnt anyone's fault but your own.
Agreed. There was the salons of not so old in the bigger scheme. Were critical thinking was encouraged. Not so much in our time. Does not fit with the distract and disarm agenda of the..
Absolutely agree but sadly it IS not always so.
@@ElShmiablo no he hasn't.. That you think he is reveals how weak and delusional you are
Oh how I wish there were still things like this on television. I was lucky that when I was in my late teens and twenties there were many programmes like this to enjoy, to grow with and to prompt discussion afterwards with family, friends, flatmates. Sadly long dead. Thank goodness for You Tube and Podcasts.
It's truly disheartening that the trends of programming for TV is utter drivel and divisive. As if the goal is to segregate instead of encouragement of cultural growth through discussion and debate.
@@FlyingcupNsourcer Exactly!
Parkinson was always interesting. Now Graham Norton is about as good as it gets, unfortunately.
@@swhite1702 Yep! 😒
AGREED WHOLEHEARTEDLY. Many people lack the ability to engage in social interactions period much less mutually beneficial conversations with those who will disagree with them. Jordan Peterson and Stephen Fry having a mutually beneficial conversation is DOPE 😎. This has nothing to do with the video but please listen if you want to otherwise leave it alone and ignore it. Hello my name is Justin and I'm a Christian and Apologist but I'm also a college student. I'm not a closed minded Theist as I have nothing against Atheists or unbelievers as I speak to them often to understand their reasons for unbelief but we as Christians are convinced of God's Existence due to many real factors). I'm not trying to convert anyone or convince anyone to become Christians as that's The Holy Spirit's job to help people believe but only explain why I believe in Jesus Christ. There's actually evidence of God's Existence in Christianity. First of all there's proof that Jesus of Nazareth existed in history since the writings of Tacitus, Josephus Flavius, Pliny the younger and other historical documents prove that He was living two thousand years ago that even scholars both religious and Atheists agree with historically speaking but not that He's The Divine Son of God because obviously they don't.
I'm going to give you historical and archeological evidence for God's Existence as The Scriptures have prophecies that predate the events recorded in them by several millennia including Matthew, Hosea and Zechariah which prophesy accurately of the people of Israel becoming a nation again after over 1900 years of being scattered around the nations since the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in 70 A.D. spoken of by Christ in Matthew 23:29-24:3 and returning to their homeland after The Holocaust with Jerusalem as their capital in 1948 exactly as Jesus The Christ said. The prophets including Daniel spoke of the time where several world empires would arise and fall including the Babylonian kingdom, Medes and Persians, Roman Empire, and Saladin and the Muslims which went in consecutive order for the past few millennia. The people of Israel becoming a nation after The Holocaust in 1948 (ironically the melting point of gold as God compares Israel to gold that's tested in fire in Zechariah 13:8 and Jeremiah 16:15) exactly how Jesus The Christ said would happen since God us everything to come in The Scriptures and not just because people were working towards as Atheists claim which are impossible for any regular man to predict.
Just before anyone says Christianity is a white man's religion made to oppress blacks during slavery you obviously aren't aware that the first Christians were Jews in The Middle East and that Christianity just like any religion can be used by evil and corrupt people to oppress others but you forget that the first Abolitionists/Civil Rights activists were Christians who sought to abolish slavery, racism, segregation, injustice and prejudice throughout American history. Jesus The Christ loves you enough not to give you what we all deserve which is God's Wrath by His Own Blood. Charles Darwin didn't originally come up with The Theory of Evolution over 200 years ago as it is mentioned in the writings of Ancient Greeks who believed in Demons that gave knowledge to philosophers.
Evolution makes no sense when nothing has evolved after thousands of years of human history and supposedly the first creature came from primordial sludge several millions of years
ago funny how they won't believe that God an Eternal Almighty Spirit Being created us from the Earth) which came from a supermassive expansion of matter at high temperature that inexplicably created everything in the known universe that supposedly came from nothing billions of years ago. How did the organs evolve before there were bones, skin, substance and how did any creatures see before eyes evolved? I've studied evolution and abiogenesis in the past and read Darwin's " Origin of The Species" I've studied evolution and abiogenesis in the past and read Darwin's " Origin of The Species" and I'm not convinced of but not macro or micro Evolution because there's no evidence of it nor clear observable examples of it where living creatures evolve into other kinds of species plus the fact that fossils don't show evidence of evolution and genetic entropy rules out evolution. The question begs how did two genders evolve from a common ancestor with a perfectly hospitable and sustainable environment with breathable oxygen and resources to survive on inexplicably? Atheists have the burden of proof to explain how everything came to be and why our existence is possible without the Existence of God from an godless perspective just as Christians have to provide evidence of God's Existence and the validity of His Word.
Evolution requires life to already exist in order to take any effect in living organisms so it doesn't account for the existence of Life and reality. Also evolution is impossible because it goes against The Law of entropy and the second Law of thermodynamics because evolution makes things better whereas nothing continues to get better but decays and turns to absolute destruction in the end. Mark Ridley an Evolutionist said "No evolutionist whether gradualist or punctuationist uses the fossil record as evidence in favor of The Theory of Darwinian Evolution as opposed to special Creation". God's Existence is made perfectly known and observable in the universe as demonstrated in His Handiwork in the intelligently designed manner that Creation was made, human consciences and consciousness historical and archaeological evidence of God's Word being valid history, fulfillment of Bible Prophecies God in His Holiness and Righteousness could give us what we deserve in Hell for our since but He's merciful to give us free will to choose to accept or reject His gift of salvation by grace through faith in His Son Jesus. I don't mean this is any condescending manner but if you'd like to discuss The Scriptures with me or have me listen to your view on anything my instagram account is Savage Christian Kombatant.
God is not what you think it is but Stephen is exactly what you think he is, a British treasure, a wonderful man who I will always learn from every time I hear him speak ❤
God doesn't exist, saying "god is not what you think it is" is a ridiculous comment. If you think god exists in ANY capacity you are a delusional person.
@@puffherb in the same way you could say that saying the existence of god is a definitive falsehood is wrong because it assumes we would be able to understand a higher beings existence and prove it to be true or false
your comment doesnt really contribute nor mean anything because it can be used for either side.
@@adamnave1078 lol
The first thing I loved about this encounter was that Peterson was quickly disabused of his superiority through his reading as Fry confirmed he had read the same books and was not going to be dictated to on their meaning. The second thing I would note, was an issue that Fry once observed of the Catholic Church. That is Peterson was obligated to listen to Fry's point of view and accept that he could generate a moral view independently of any church or holy book. There are thousands of theists out there that flat out state that if you don't conform to "their" religion you have no morals. Finally, I thought Fry was very kind to Peterson with regards to the "Facing God" hypothetical. I would not have been. Peterson made the point that Fry's comment on demanding an explanation and scolding said god for the horrors of this world, which were totally unnecessary was a negative because it lead to anger. My comment would have been that it would have lead to the severance of the god from its creation because of the hate and unnecessary suffering that the god generated. Of course this is moot, being as there is no such god.
Spot on. I'm usually a fan of Peterson but he tried to bully his way through this exchange at the start. Stephen Fry is obviously not his usual audience, so this tactic fell flat pretty quick. I'm not sure what Peterson's beliefs are in relation to god but it seems like he is really trying to find a way to reconcile some form of belief he has but his logical mind is fighting him on it.
As an atheist I’m with Stephen Fry all the way but I do have great respect for Jordan Peterson because he very rarely argues with an intention to prove the other person wrong or make the other person look stupid. He’s genuinely interested in other peoples takes on these topics. They’re just having a deep philosophical conversation about the existence of god
S2sss
22s
S2s
S2sss
Jordan Peterson would certainly like to prove the other person wrong if he was able to, but he simply cannot because his arguments are not that good for the existence of a deity. Historically, whenever a freethinker and a religious person argue the existence of God, the free thinker gets the best of the argument. This is not a criticism of the religious person but rather because the religious person thinks they have knowledge when in fact they only have opinion and thus cannot cogently argue their position.
This kind of discussions are like art to me. I wish I was able to have conversations like that myself. Big fan of both of them
wel no one knows how art is to you. maybe you think art is shit:O?
@@eliasekstrom6660
That's not a helpful nor intelligent reply.
You can have intelligent conversations you just need to find intelligent, like minded people to have them with.
@@mypointofview1111 racist
@@eliasekstrom6660 Wow Elias, are you so beyond reproach to think someone else's life perspective is instantly false?? In what world was mypointofview's reply even remotely racist?
Perhaps it's time to reconsider why replying to such a comment is even worthwhile of your time?
This is really really great, thank you so much.❤❤❤❤❤❤
This is one of the most respectful dialogs I’ve ever seen between an avid Atheist and a person of faith, The hope it gives me literally brought tears to my eyes!
Yea... Maybe he should bring up Jesus, and how he is the only way.. see how that goes.
@@krisl2838 I’m not entirely sure what you meant... But this discussion really had nothing to do with Christianity, I was simply discussing the merits of Theism vs Atheism.
Also Just out of curiosity what’s with so many people having anything but a picture of themselves for their profile picture? It seems anime characters are the most popular, And I love anime, But I never understood not wanting people to associate someone’s face with the opinion they’re stating...
@@aliasmcdecoy8349are you new to the internet? Or are you accustomed to using social media platforms with personal pictures/video? Genuine questions. It's interesting to see someone question that. I've taken it for granted since the 90s.
Why do you not present your real full name? Many of the answers to that will overlap with the answer to your other question
I guess Peterson is kind of a person of faith isn't he.
Lol, Jordan Peterson in first quarter of 2021 had Neptune square his Sun, Saturn square his Neptune, simultaneously having his second Saturn return, complaining about the recent pain he has undergone, and discussing God with someone who knows equally as little about the universe he lives in, and we all bow down to their overpowering Mercurial wisdom.
Fry is being stupendously kind and generous for P's apologetics.
And a man of deep intellect.
Thats what I love the Brits for...
Isn't gd?
Both men bring me joy and challenging thought.
@@starsloyalist look at it again, though. In some instances SF is clearly indulging JP whose agenda seems to be to validate a Christian God and pander to the right. He quotes Dostoyevsky - conservative reactionary in many ways, himself - and engages in what appears to be considered thought, but he doesn't actually say anything of substance and doesn't provide any real evidence to support his argument - particularly in the narrow Christian sense he is endeavouring to promote. I too once thought, JP had something of value to say, but his initial popularity went to his head it seems and he actually sees himself as a philosopher or a major intellect. Hes neither, really. He a self help writer. Which, if it helps people, is a good thing. I get the sense that he is being tolerated by SF who appears to be considering JPs points out of decency rather than because he finds them challenging
What a delight to listen to them
These are the debates I like most that my friends send me are 2 people ranting at each other and then one makes a funny comment and it becomes pandemonium but this is 2 men with opposite views who clearly respect each other having a long and thought out debate very good to see
I don't normally comment on RUclips videos. I watch a LOT of Jordan Peterson videos, Jordan is normally so considerate of the question and topic he's focused on and he normally pauses and thinks about his response, but it's testament to Stephen Frye that Jordan is enjoying the converse with Stephen here and he's in free flow where he's not having to consider the 'what if he said she said' and just enjoying the conversation. These are two modern greats of our time and it's great they can talk like this!
Like Jordan Peterson had to worry about when debating that dimwit Matt Dilahunty
Its very clear when JP is talking to a friend vs a hustler.
I don't know.
I'm growing kinda tired of the "I don't know the answer to that" and the "That's certainly a good question to ask" and the "Well that's an entirely valid point of view" rhetoric.
Maybe this is just me manifesting the "Gen Z have lowest attention spans so far" statistic, but it's getting kinda annoying. JBP is obviously aware of the vitriolic "4chan" side of the internet with how he talks about comedians and free speech, so he's gotta be aware of what he's doing.
And it's not like I don't get that poignancy-aversion and self-suppression is a problem but I feel like the doing opposite isn't the solution. All it does is chase away the people who need to hear it the most. It's like he doesn't care if he only preaches to the choir.
It's also giving off a LOT of subtle boomer vibes, kinda like when that eric weinstein guy said he didn't like michael malice cus he was a troll.
The difference, perhaps, is that this was set up to be a conversational session, as opposed to a Harris/Dilahunty etc which designed as an adversarial session.
Old benzo brain never has a good answer for religious questions
This type of discourse used to be mainstream 50+ years ago. What a shame it isn’t now.
STEPHEN FRY STANDS FOR SUPPORTING THE GREEKS TO CLAIM BACK THE PARTHENON MARBLES AFTER STOLEN FROM LORD ELGIN 200 YEARS AGO FROM GREECE AND NOW ARE DISPLAYED IN BRITISH MUSEUM
Your fault. Don’t blame the kids of today who were raised by the lazy. Anyone born 1960-80 is to blame for every problem of today. Don’t blame a 16 year old for something their parents and grandparents did.
@@burna1282 You haven’t done much with that comment to assuage the stereotype of the internet nutcase have you?
What on earth are you taking about? I was born in 1981.
Here it is with 3 millions views - media is a different landscape now
@@alfiegoff96 You’ve missed the point. The point is that 50 years ago two people talking calmly and rationally about politics & philosophy on television was the norm, just as reading Tolstoy, Dostoevsky & Gogol in the late 19th century was the norm for the average Russian. Now you have reality TV and other debauched idiocy.
3m views for a globally accessible video that was uploaded a year ago isn’t much to shout about.
I'm forever disappointed with JP's efforts to explain his positions
Two of my favourite humans. These moments make me glad that we have the internet.
Good on them both - seems to me that polite intellectual discussion has been lost recently. I am an absolute atheist but can, I hope, remain respectful of other’s beliefs and learn from their opinions - Stephen Fry is all I could wish to be and I applaud Peterson’s own brilliance and bravery.
Ah an intellectual conversation. A phenomenon that is so close to extinction. It's so beautiful to watch two civilized people discuss their thoughts in a gentlemanly manner.
M C I urge you to make new friends as these conversations are nowhere _near_ extinction. These conversations happen everywhere every day! Most of us don't have a RUclips channel to put them on display in a way most people would want to hear, but they happen.
I absolutely adore Stephen and have loved his work for years.
I truly enjoy Peterson and his classroom lectures; what an amazingly empathetic and intelligent and passionate teacher.
It's really not, you're just looking in all the wrong places.
God didn’t bring suffering into existence. That was Satan’s doing when he tricked Adam and Eve into eating the forbidden fruit, which brought evil and discord into existence. So if you wanna blame someone for ruining one’s life or making life unfair, that’s something you should only blame Satan for and not God.
It's a conversation with a intellectual, and the other person is Peterson.
trump is gone. 👅
This is brilliant stuff...I hope I can remember it!!!
Never trust a person who can clear their conscience of any immoral act by asking forgiveness from their imaginary friend.
Says a person with a fake account pretending to be from a different country than they are! Look at your channel activity.... Disgusting.
Well, that isnt how it works since to ask forgiveness it must be a 100% honest ask after feeling true guilt and remorse. You cannot lie to yourself or god when you ask since both of you know the truth behind the words. It also doesnt mean youre exempt from punishment in life for your actions.
@@dartskihutch4033 these people think God is a dream, or a nightmare - something your human mind cooked up whilst you were sedated or sleeping.
They cannot even imagine that their human minds were cooked up by a being like our God. So I wouldn't expect that they know what responsibility, morality or forgiveness are either.
They think punishment is being restricted on Twitter for a week lol. Honestly they cannot see a lie in their entire lives because it's impossible to see a needle in a pile of needles that is already there.
That is how I see their lives, a massive pile of dishonest twitter posts modelled in order to expand and protect only itself. There is no human element to it. It's all face.
@@dartskihutch4033 'God' would be your imaginary friend I referred to. The point of my post basically.
@@Philoyouknow no your point was the "god" clears their conscious for them but it's in fact the opposite. You yourself understand what you did was wrong and honestly seek forgiveness for doing something that is evil and you know it to be so. You yourself acknowledge your wrong doing and ask to be forgiven and it is only forgiven if you know 100% in your heart that you were wrong. So no it's not god who clears your conscience it's you, and he is who forgives you. Someone who does something immoral or sins and asks for forgiveness while justifying the sin to themselves is not forgiven. Only those true of heart are. The "imaginary friend" comment is separate entirely.
If there was a God would he allow an important serious discussion like this to be interrupted mid sentence after only a few minutes by some moronic disconnected ad?
if god real why bad thing happen? and other important arguments by richard dawkins
@@notloki3377 bad things happen because they do it's just nature ,the nature of people can be bad and the nature of life on earth can be cruel but it's evolutions nature , my wife had breast cancer and that was just nature .a good friend of mine said to me at the time my wife and mother of my children was having chemo therapy that they would pray for us and told me to pray for her as well but as I saw things if god dose exist he's the one that gave her cancer and now I'm asked by god to get on my knees be good for him and pray for my wife so she can get better ,I thought hard and came up with that's a bad god that I don't want to know ,i told my friend if anything going to make my wife better it will be science and the good doctors that will be looking after her and they did she doing fine right now .
@@paulgilraine3127 you didn't understand. I was being sarcastic. God and evil are not mutually exclusive. The argument from evil is a logical fallacy. Glad your wife is doing better.
God made RUclips Premium for a reason. Pay up
God made adblock
The key is that they are letting each other finish their points without interrupting constantly, THAT is a sign of high intelligence
That's just manners.
I've found that I do better when I don't think I messed up today, but when I think about what I was able to accomplish.
I love how well Fry disguises how bemused he is with the simplicity of Peterson's analysis, all dressed up with fancy words and academic name dropping.
that's why I clicked on it, having heard enough Peterson to have little respect for him.
I for one could use more of Fry's restraint and gentlemanly behavior.
This is what an actual intellectual conversation between two men who don't necessarily agree with each other but understand that and respect it wholeheartedly looks like. Fantastic from both.
" don't necessarily agree with each other?"
Disagree about what?
@@koitorob essential JP was trying to argue on behalf of religion.
It didn't work very well because how do you argue that bone cancer is fine as long as we don't let ourselves get angry about it.
A demonstration of intelligent and precise use of the English language in a respectful exchange of information and both complex and simple ideas and opinions.
I feel better for having watched this, thank you.
Poor Fry for being interrupted so many times, only to have Peterson spew word salad half of which was simply untruths.
I love to listen to Stephen Fry, so much respect for him.
Beautiful, respectful and intellectual discussion between two men that have differing social, religious and political ideals, I love it and want to see more of this. I don't care what criticisms people have of either of them, they are brilliant.
Isn’t it odd that towards the end god disappeared and the conversation turned to a sort of nature over nurture investigation
@@hughjohnson2674 cause thats what it is, Are we manufactured by a higher being or are we just out here byproducts of the way our solar system moves and changes
2 men.
@@hughjohnson2674 love this reply
@@Emanuel-ht9yl love this reply
Stephen Fry is such an intellect, I could listen to him all day. I loved the debate with him and Christopher Hitchens debating the Archbishop and Ann Widdecombe too. He's also a genuinely nice person and very humble.
It was in terms of debate a one sided affair, but instructive and entertaining.
He made a few podcasts, they're on Spotify. 10/10 would recommend
I think he's overrated, I wouldn't consider him an intellectual heavyweight he's just well read.
If he was an intellect he wouldn't be an atheist.
@@pleasepermitmetospeakohgre1504 who would you call an intellectual heavyweight then?
People put so many words in Peterson’s mouth. I admire how deeply rational and logical he is. I really can’t square that with his views on religion.
I like that painting in the background.
Stephen Fry is so considered and genuinely a great human being.
Did he plead that when he was convicted for fraud?
@@wolfthequarrelsome504 how can u plead being considered and a great human being?
That's not how court works. U either plead guilty or not guilty.
Maybe you have never been to court
I was waiting for this for years!!!!
Me too
well they are both beyond my brain size so its nice to see really smart people actually having a real big brained discussion without it degenerating into name calling
Hearing them talk reinforces an idea I've been thinking of lately that the exchange of a good faith argument between an atheist and a deist or theist is in a sense the pinnacle of philosophical debate. If both are willing to take the other completely seriously the output is something much greater than the sum of their parts.
@@Johnnybsknees I very much agree with that, and that was actually the reason I never lost faith (pun intended) that this would happen. It filled me with joy and inteli pleasure to watch this exchange, truly refreshing
@@leonardojul I saw on Twitter where Fry shared this interview and many of his followers were disavowing him even to the point of saying they no longer respected him and that made me very sad to see. That mentality around atheism that is so sure of itself that it seems recoil away from the idea of taking any sort of deism or theism as a valuable counterpart to itself is very frustrating on a basic intellectual level. I get why people don't like Peterson but I feel pretty certain there's a large amount of lazy discrediting and demonizing that reflects the exact sort of unintentional "fundamentalidm" that they purport to be so opposed to.
Such an interesting discussion.
I'm glad Stephen explained he wasn't resentful because that's not, in any way, how I considered his response to a "God". His response was a far greater literate response to one which I could ever have threw together in the space of time he had to do so. I've listened to Stephen Fry on many occasion and as far as I'm concerned he is one of the greatest speakers and philosophers of our generation, and frankly, I'm surprised at Jordan's reaction, I genuinely considered his intellect to have been able to interpret and challenge Stephen's views on a greater level than he did. Nonetheless, both very intelligent human beings and far more than I could ever wish to be.
I think Jordan made a fair point. The way Fry discussed all the evil in the world with a supposedly loving God would naturally incline one to think of resentment. Even though he denied it at some psychological level it may well be there.
@@buddhatimemen chose to do evil, we have free will.
I'm in such awe of Fry I am speechless.
@I Yam What I Yam! if I am in awe of Fry it is not your problem. You do not i repeat YOU DO NOT dictate to me who i should or should not be in awe of. Now voetsek!
@@shanaazabrahams1319 he Just asked what you are in awe of xd
@I Yam What I Yam! Your assumption that he got his knowledge in such a limited way is proof of ignorance on your part.
@@susamogus5693 if you have to ask you do not deserve an answer.
'im not really resentful and angry about the fact that there's evil in the world, I'm sorrowful'.
This right there translates exactly how i feel too.
You are sad God created so much evil in the world?
@@imaliazhar yep, I think that's what they are saying?
@@jamescarla26 I find it very difficult to not be angry knowing how easy it is for Him to remove all evil from the world.
@@imaliazhar How can "he" do anything if they aren't real?
@@ElShmiablo The original comment suggests they are not angry at God (if he exists), they are just sad because of the evil.
What I was trying to understand is how can they not be angry at Him given how easy it is for Him to cleanse the world of evil.
An example of civil discourse, brilliant!
It’s uplifting. It CAN be done. Indoctrination is our true enemy.
What an elegant intelligent and respectful debate We can all learn so much from this . I wish the politicians, left and right could take this to heart.
So refreshing to listen to such respectful intellect...especially given current world events
Whenever Peterson has atheists on he just cries and rambles.... Mental.. .
Let go and let God! We have no idea what to do and what we are doing!
I genuinely love Steven Fry. He's a gift to humanity
@Σά ββας shows that people can be sophisticated without a believe in god for example
Stephen Fry is a reprobate. A reprobate means they are rejected by God and beyond the hope of Salvation. There can come a point when someone can cross the line of rejecting God, that God can in fact, turn around and reject them and give them over to a “reprobate mind”. These people are damned to Hell, even before their death. They are the most wicked people on earth. They are psychopaths that has had their conscious “seared with a hot iron” (1 Timothy 4:2)
“For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.” (Romans 1:26-33) KJV
Search, The Bible Way to Heaven, on RUclips
@Σά ββας yep I don't get him either
@Σά ββας he lifts my spirit and is always interesting, I think.
@JP that's just a fairytale though!
Two great minds having an educated discussion about the same subject.
every minute of every day there is a child being raped somewhere on this earth, while god watches every time it happens and does nothing to stop it.
btw, peterson is an idiot who doesn't understand what stephen fry is saying.
Fry and JBP? My only regret is that I have but one like to give :-)
Indeed
We who are about to die, salute you
There is no reason you cannot like both. You do not have to agree with EVERYTHING either says.
You know they were the anti political correctness team on the monk debate a couple years ago
@@dyerarch
It's a joke about how you can only like once on RUclips
What a pair of decent gentlemen having such a respectful discussion.
100% the world needs alot more of it