I dont like neither of black numenorians, I mean they are the bad guys, right? I would really love to see a history of dunedain, of Arathorn and other chieftans, about where they dwelt, where they fought and scout, in General about Dunedain!!!!!!!
I would love to see a video that brings to life the Dagor Dagorath, perhaps filling in any missing detail with theories or best guesses at what might happen and who would be involved. Love your videos!
Its a true testament to the scope of Tolkien's work that you have produced an in depth video once a week for two years and are far from running out of content. As always, great video!
At least your content is of Tolkien. We all are incensed with this new corruption that Amazon is shovelling out. Please don't corrupt your content with "the rings of power" please. So many are jumping on the wagon. It disgusts me.
"His name is remembered in no tale, for he himself had forgotten it." Two hours earlier: "Richard Mouth, did you take out the garbage???" "Dsmmit mom not now, I have to get to the Black Gate!"
It wasn't someone he disliked (he calls them a friend rather than acquaintance), but he did say in an interview that he know someone who really couldn't stand cats but cats always followed them anyway, and that was the inspiration for the character
You never have to guess whether he liked someone. And he never had mixed feelings about anyone; real or fictional, he could only admire or despise them.
Tolkien has intimated that with the Ringwraiths only some were bad when given their ring (And therefore being corrupted and turned into a wraith fairly quickly) while others were good resisting the their rings for several hundred years before finally succumbing to them.
@@codycatron7813 Gollum was corrupted by the Ring. Queen Berúthiel seems to have been dark/evil without Morgoth or Sauron's help. Imagine if she had gotten the One Ring.....
This is utterly unrelated to the subject of the video, but Tolkien, thank you for describing Sauron as attractive. You and the artists do a service to us all.
Tolkien contemplated to continue the story of these Black Numenoreans in his unpublished project The New Shadow, which was about a secret cult among Men that worshipped Melkor in the Fourth Age.
The meeting between Gandalf and the Mouth is so epic. Goes to show how sophisticated Sauron's evil was and not simply one note and obvious. An enemy of substance who is articulate.
I still think what Sauron did to Numenor, his greatest and most powerful enemy, was his greatest victory even though it came at a price. It is testament to the fact he is far more dangerous than Morgoth.
Not even close. Melkor literally was the reason for the exile of the high elves(feanor and co) out of valinor. Everything that came after that is still an effect of his game
True that the downfall of Numenor was his greatest victory, but he never even approached Morgoth's dominion over the world. Heck, Morgoth had pretty much wiped out everyone who opposed him in a struggle that he slowly won over thousands of years. And he only lost in the end because the last few remnants of his foes called upon the deus ex Valar to save them. Otherwise it was all over.
Sauron was worthy to continue the legacy. Morgoth laid the foundation.Melkor brought the very concept of evil. All these orcs and trolls and fell beasts are works of Melkor. Sauron doesn't even come close to Morgoth at his peak and certainly not Melkor.
@@jangolub8240 I know. But for distinguishing pre Ea melkor and post Arda Melkor I used these terms differently. Melkor had been significantly weakened in Arda and he had come to be known as Morgoth. That's why I used them differently.
Bro, I keep watching these videos for literal years now and I'm still amazed how I keep learning new things. Also specific things like the crazy cat lady and how she uses them as spies. This man's writing was truly build different unlike any other piece of fiction.
There is a game set after Sauron's defeat in LOTR. Half way through, you are informed of a dark, elderly man offering his services (old due to the magic disappearing). After a few days he rises to chief advisor, and he gives you really good management abilities. His portrait is a wrinkly version of the Mouth of Sauron.
The cat lady, Queen Berúthiel, really reminded me of the fact that Tolkien took inspiration from Scandinavian culture! (goddess Freya had her chariot pulled by cats, didn’t she?)
Could be a reference to Hecate as well (Greek goddess of magic). She had some connection to cats, and I think also had a chariot pulled by black panthers.
The animated version does the Mouth scene the best because Aragorn says “You be no wraith beneath that mask and those robes but a man even as I” - this calls the fact that Aragorn and the Mouth are both of Numenorean descent. The Mouth should not be depicted as a monster but “beautiful” like Aragorn. The terror of the encounter comes from the fact that Numenoreans can be corrupted or fall from grace, and this means even a Numenorean with the appearance of Aragorn could be turned to evil.
I doubt Mouth of Sauron could have survived for long, his lifespan probably was already extended beyond natural limit by Sauron's sorcery. Once the Ring was unmade, any power Sauron had was broken and magic keeping his servants such as Nazgul was spent, the rest must have followed. Sauron's ring artificially kept the power, brilliance and dark shadows of old from fading but with it gone, all was free to flow down the river once again.
Probable. More than likely he fled Eest. Numernoreans were known to be able to wield magic so likely he would have found haven in Melkors cults. I personally like the idea of Aragorn tasking then Rangers to hunt the Black Numernoreans. It would have made an interesting story.
@@nabiji Yes, but how much of a "magic" would that be? I never had chance to read it from books directly but most sources i draw my informations from, state that fading of power of magic following Sauron's fall was pretty drastic and fast, other rings of power lost their powers and enchantments within a year or so. Sauron's ring was akin of a soul jar or phylactery, it was a relict of old ages, while a thing of pure darkness and malevolence, it was brilliant in it's own wicked way, the last glimps of ages and power that would never come to Middle Earth, and were doomed to be forever forgotten sooner or later. But Middle Earth world is in a way a vessel of Morgoth, he poured most of his essence and wickedness into it, and as such both exist to feed the other, until the end of Arda and Morgoth. So perhaps something did remain, but weaker and no longer immortal. Central theme in these works, at least to me, is that everything is passing, fleeting, nothing can withstand the passage of time and crumbles under it. Good, evil, is naught a but a whisper in the wind. Their story is over now.
I'm both amused and horrified at art that depicts the Mouth of Sauron looking like a Tyrant out of Resident Evil. To me, it makes sense that someone that evil, that close to Sauron, wouldn't even look human anymore.
Obligatory Super-Nerd comment: The realm of Umbar with its population of Haradrim and Black Númenorians was - for a time - ruled by rogue members of the House of Anárion. After the Kin-Strife (the Gondorian Civil War that saw Castamir ursurp the kingship from his cousin Eldacar in TA 1437, the destruction of Osgiliath and the eventual defeat of Castsmir in 1447), the sons of Castamir lead the remaining forces of their father and the gondorian fleet to the South and established control over Umbar. Their descendants became known as the (original) Corsairs of Umbar and led many attacks against Gondor (the most devastating of which was the sacking of Pelargir in TA 1634 during which King Minardil was killed) until King Telumehtar finally reconquered Umbar and ended the line of Castamir in TA 1830.
Great video as always! Your videos are connected to my will to live almost ( don’t feel pressured ) but I’m always grateful when I get to watch a new video!
Beruthiel is reminiscent of Theodora, wife of Emperor Justinian, as described in Procopius' Secret Histories. Tolkien would probably have been familiar with this work
Morgoth and his minions like Sauron which are Tolkien's analog for the devil and his minions only came to steal, kill, destroy and corrupt to repeat the process all over again.
I still believe it was the Mouth of Sauron who visited the Dwarves, for the simple fact the visitor refers to Sauron in those several meetings as "Sauron The Great" which is exactly what the Mouth of Sauron calls Sauron when speaking to Gandalf and Aragorn at that black gates. Plus as his name implies he is the literal Mouth Piece of Sauron, so would Sauron send a Nazgul, which are his warriors to deliver a message to the dwarves when he already has an Emissary for that exact purpose ie the Mouth of Sauron. Also IIRC the visitor was referred to as being a Man, which of course the Nazgul weren't men anymore by this time.
Oh man, I still have these non-canon knockoff books by Dmitri Souslin where Bilbo was dragged off to the sea to find... uhhh... I think it was a Palantir from Queen Beruthiel and her scary cats. Thanks for reminding me I was stupid enough kid to not know better)) Gotta read them again after so many years, just for fun🤣 Also, late Numenor with human sacrifices and Sauron cult is just plain awesome thing to learn/be reminded of👍
@@NerdoftheRings Yes, I actually have Book 2 (called "The Hobbit and Saruman") and Book 3 (called "The Hobbit and the One Ring") in front of me. Apparently, this trilogy of novels was reprinted in 2001-2003 to coincide with Peter Jackson's trilogy, while originally written in 2000-2001. No English sources from quick googling though. I smell copyright violation ergo russian bookstores-only distribution)
Oh wow. I’m very curious to see what these books look like! Have you found them online anywhere? Or if you wouldn’t mind, could you shoot me an email? (Email in the “about” section)
@@NerdoftheRings I actually tried to link you how these books look here in the comment section, but it didn't go through. RUclips is weird sometimes. I'll email you everything bit later since I'm not home atm👍
@@NerdoftheRings There is also a book series called "The Ring of Darkness" by Nik Perumov, quite famous russian fantasy author. He says it's like a "free sequel to LOTR just out of love to original books". So basically a fanfiction, but by a quite known author here in Russia
Wow I always wondered what Aragorn meant when he mentioned the cats of Queen Berúthiel to the fellowship and I wonder if Gandalf or even Boromir understood the reference
In an interview from 1966, Tolkien likened Beruthiel to the giantess Skadi, Skade, or Skathi of Norse mythology, since they both shared a dislike for "seaside life".
Great video, the Mouth of Sauron has always been intriguing! I would love to see more of Mordor talked about and who else lived there besides the Orcs. I think I heard years ago that there was vast farmland in the south of Mordor that provided food and supplies for Sauron's forces, located around the Sea of Nurnen, and we know so little about Lithlad in the east of Mordor. I seem to recall in the Two Towers that Sauron's easterling armies marched to the Black Gate instead of entering from the eastern side, where I'm sure Sauron would have placed fortifications as well.
I always loved the lore of the 'evil' groups of Men; Black Numenoreans, Easterlings, Haradrim, Men of Umbar, Variags etc. They just seem so mysterious and compelling. I wish Tolkien wrote more about the East and South places of Middle Earth.
@Hydra Force Most plausible is that mornumenedain gradually disappeared into history. Mouth of Sauron was last vague memory of them and his slavish devotion to Sauron would not have rang well with domineering, prideful mornumenedain.
If he elaborated more on them, they would lose all mystery because they would start to strongly resemble regular boring officials, politicians, clergy, military men and normal people that you see every day. Including the one in your mirror.
I'm more happy to use my imagination to fill in those gaps. I'm glad Tolkien ended it when he did, left us wanting more but satisfied with what we got. 🙌
I remember the first time I read “The Downfall of Numenor” and how Sauron allowed himself to be captured, what they ended up doing to shun the Valar and then creating the awful ceremonies they performed on their own people. Made me sick to my stomach.
If the man made stories make you feel I'll, then I'd hate to find out what would happen to you when you read about the real stories of what happened in our past...
@@normansawatzky4778 Not the right place to bring those up, over here we're tryna do some good old escapism (yeah into the darkest bits of the lore but it's still fictional so it works lol), which is also what Tolkien intended his works to be.
some really cool artwork that i haven't seen before. getting inspired over here. thanks for putting this together. even though i'm already quite familiar with tolkien's work and the histories of arda, i still enjoy listening to stuff like this. appreciate you.
He is an interesting character. I thought how they portrayed him in RotK was brilliantly done. Honestly sad that it was left out of the theatrical release.
Kind of annoying how in the movies they had Aragorn just murder the Mouth of Sauron while they were negotiating, seems out of character with how dishonorable it was
Nice video i rly liked it! I think you missed Castamir the Usurper, who was member of a cadet branch of the Gondorian Royal Family and after his depose he taken Umbar with his followers. After a few centuries his line was exterminated by Gondor, but probably many of his followers descendants survived. That ex Gondorians probably were a great blood refresh for the dieing out Black Numenoreans.
I would love a theory video of an alternative timeline where Gandalf realizes that Bilbo has the One Ring at the start of the Lord of the Rings, and that he then directly travels with Bilbo to Rivendell to consult Elrond about the ring. - Would Gandalf still go to Isengard or would Saruman be summoned to Rivendell, and would Saruman's treachery be exposed in that way? - Would Bilbo feel an obligation to take the ring to Mordor, or would he think of Frodo and still recommend him to become the ring-bearer? - The ringwraiths would not have reached the Shire before Gandalf and Bilbo got to Rivendell, so what would the ringwraiths be doing instead? - Would the planned route to Mordor change if Bilbo was the ringbearer, or would they still try the same path (ergo, would Bilbo's own personality, knowledge and experience change the planned or taken road)? - Would the rest of the Fellowship (Aragorn, Boromir, Gimli, Legolas, and Gandalf) support Bilbo as a ringbearer, and would the dynamic of the group change if the only hobbit in the group was Bilbo and the fellowship only had 6 members? Would other members join in to bump the number up to 9 somehow? - Would Gandalf or Bilbo have the idea to bring along Frodo? Would Frodo bring his other friends? - Would Bilbo be affected by the ring sooner/harder, and how would it change the story? I can imagine that this alternative timeline could go in too many directions to be able to talk about them all, but it would be interesting to jump into this alternative and play around with the idea. Maybe compare how Bilbo would fare if the quest took them on the same route as the original Fellowship, and how the road probably would look and be different if Bilbo was the only hobbit and ringbearer.
Bilbo had gotten so accustomed to the ring I doubt he would willing to offer to be the one to destroy it if he took part in that council meeting with all the shouting. He has experience from the Erebor trip but he's getting old...
I'm surprised you didn't mention the Kin-Strife of Gondor, where the Numenorean aristocracy was split by the prospect of Eldacar, only half-Numenorean, coming to the throne, and their leader, Castamir, usurped him. While Eldacar reclaimed the throne and Castamir the Usurper was killed, his sons and their followers fled to Umbar after being besieged at Pelargir - thus bulking up the Black Numenorean numbers as the Corsairs of Umbar.
Great video as always!! Would you consider doing a video analyzing the races of men, similar to the videos you made regarding elves, dwarves and orcs? I have to say, you have done a spectacular job with this channel!!
I think it's really interesting how the kings of Númenór mirror the kings of ancient Judah. with them slowly turning away from God. and just like king Josiah Tar-Palantir returns to the Valar
@1:56 I got Belshazzar vibes (Nebuchadnezzar's son) especially with the narration saying, they were feasting and drinking and clading themselves in silver and gold.
Smeagol forgot his own name for a long while too. This aspect of corruption is metaphorical in that one can forget who they really are when seeking and holding power at all costs.
If you take into account the might of Sauron from the opening of the first movie i recon that Sauron will need approx 20 hours of swinging his mace in order to obliterated the numenoreans.
"Sauron corrupts the hearts and minds of the kingsmen so deeply, that they brutally oppress the men of Middle Earth during this period. Despite Sauron's promises, the kingsmen do not escape death. In fact, they're plagued by all sort of illnesses and mental afflictions, to the point that they curse themselves in their agony." I find this passage particularly interesting in light of the current events in the world.
People are not more mentally ill now than in the past; we have always had mental illness. Rather, we do not stigmatise it, and our diagnostic criteria are better, so more people are diagnosed and able to receive treatment. It's the same with vaccines and autism. There is no causal relationship, but autism coincidentally became better understood, and also stopped being seen as a fundamental character flaw, around the same time as mandatory/recommended vaccinations became more prevalent.
In Brian Jacques’s Mossflower (a Redwall book) the Villainess, Queen Tsarmina Greeneyes, was an anthropomorphic wildcat named after Russian Empresses (Tsarmina is Tsarina with “mean” in it). I noticed in the pictures of Beruthiel at 7:15, asides from all the cats, one image has her wearing a crown with a logo of a green eye 👁. Do you think it was possible the late Mr. Jacques was inspired by this Tolkien character? She also seems to vaguely echo parallels with the White Witch of Narnia, as the Numenorians do the Witch’s people. Either way, she’s the ultimate crazy cat lady.
LOTR movie concept artists: Okay Mr. Jackson, what should this “Mouth of Sauron” look like? There’s no description of his face in the book. Peter Jackson: Give him a mouth that takes up 30% of his face with gross black lips and giant ugly teeth that look like they haven’t been brushed…ever.
This was a super good video! I learned so much! I really never put those points together. Also, it was awesome to learn about Queen Beruthiel! They just released her as an evil leader in Rise to war LOTR phone game and I wanted to know more about her! Thanks Nerd of the Rings! Another Great video!
I kind of like his human depictions being underwhelming because it further supports that his enemies would not see him as a direct threat. Meanwhile, Sauron is sewing deception and enthralling literal kings behind the scenes to do his bidding. It seems to be more of a strategic method of planning that way. Sauron was powerful, but even he knew that he'd need as much advantages he could muster to defeat the free people of Middle-Earth.
Who is your favorite of the Black Númenóreans? And what other topics would you like to see covered by the new year?
I dont like neither of black numenorians, I mean they are the bad guys, right? I would really love to see a history of dunedain, of Arathorn and other chieftans, about where they dwelt, where they fought and scout, in General about Dunedain!!!!!!!
In the future can you learn us more about he fell beast and the other monsters of Morgoth and sauron?
I would love to see a video that brings to life the Dagor Dagorath, perhaps filling in any missing detail with theories or best guesses at what might happen and who would be involved. Love your videos!
Lammen Gorthaur
He's not canon but I kinda like Agandaûr, the main antagonist from the game "Lord of the Rings: War in the North"
Its a true testament to the scope of Tolkien's work that you have produced an in depth video once a week for two years and are far from running out of content. As always, great video!
It is indeed! Whenever I’m asked “are you worried about running out of stuff to talk about?”, I say “not in the slightest.” Lol
At least your content is of Tolkien. We all are incensed with this new corruption that Amazon is shovelling out. Please don't corrupt your content with "the rings of power" please. So many are jumping on the wagon. It disgusts me.
The fact that The Mouth Of Sauron has forgotten his real name just shows the corruption of Sauron
Maybe he just has a really silly name like Slartibartfast, and dosen't want to tell anyone it 🙂
maybe he just has childhood trauma about his name
Maybe he has alzheimers
"His name is remembered in no tale, for he himself had forgotten it."
Two hours earlier:
"Richard Mouth, did you take out the garbage???"
"Dsmmit mom not now, I have to get to the Black Gate!"
Ive been there too, it’s called alcohol
I didn't even know there was a queen Béruthiel just shows that there's always something to surprise you from Tolkien
The real hardcore catwoman
Then I guess you don't know about Tevildo either. Tolkien has some great cat stories. 😺
😺
@@Enerdhil The name sounds vaguely familiar, but I can't say I do. What can you tell me of Tevildo, or can you direct me where to read of him/her/it?
@@Enerdhil I could never read the Tevildo stories without imagining Antonio Banderas as Puss in Boots
The way Beruthiel is described kinda gives me the impression that she was based on someone Tolkien both knew well, and disliked thoroughly.
It wasn't someone he disliked (he calls them a friend rather than acquaintance), but he did say in an interview that he know someone who really couldn't stand cats but cats always followed them anyway, and that was the inspiration for the character
@@BroadwayRonMexico lol that sounds about right, cats are like that
You never have to guess whether he liked someone. And he never had mixed feelings about anyone; real or fictional, he could only admire or despise them.
similar to how he described arwens beauty to be like his wife
I always thought she was primarily based on jezebel from the Bible.
Tolkien has intimated that with the Ringwraiths only some were bad when given their ring (And therefore being corrupted and turned into a wraith fairly quickly) while others were good resisting the their rings for several hundred years before finally succumbing to them.
So talion
@@SonsOfMars.he wasn't one of the nine kings, Sauron didn't make Talion's ring, Celebrimbor made it with Talion at the end of SoM. so no.
@@truegreen7595 I'm talking moreso about the "being corrupted and before finally succumbing to them" part
@@truegreen7595brother forgot Talion took Isildurs ring, making the other guy right in his assumption
Queen Beruthiel's one of the creepiest characters in Tolkien's Legendarium.
You know you're dark as the pit of the Void when any mention of you is stricken from the records of the kings.
I mean gollum is pretty creepy, considering he would break into houses to steal and eat babies lol
i still don't like sleeping with an open window cause of that implication -.-''
@@codycatron7813
Gollum was corrupted by the Ring. Queen Berúthiel seems to have been dark/evil without Morgoth or Sauron's help. Imagine if she had gotten the One Ring.....
@@codycatron7813
"..... eat babies lol" 😆🤣😂 when you have your own kids, you won't think that's funny.😂🤣😆
This is utterly unrelated to the subject of the video, but Tolkien, thank you for describing Sauron as attractive. You and the artists do a service to us all.
Reminds me of the "Canadian Ned Flanders" gag from the Simpsons.
"Say, would you like to try on this ringerino?"
Tolkien contemplated to continue the story of these Black Numenoreans in his unpublished project The New Shadow, which was about a secret cult among Men that worshipped Melkor in the Fourth Age.
I believe there is a video on this channel about it!
Herumor and the cult of the Black Tree were not entirely developed, so connection to the Black Númenórëans are slim to none.
Maybe it connects to the blue wizards.
@@Mr713mexican how?
@@FatGouf the blue wizards are said to have started cults of magic. And the new book talked about a secret cult.
The meeting between Gandalf and the Mouth is so epic. Goes to show how sophisticated Sauron's evil was and not simply one note and obvious. An enemy of substance who is articulate.
I still think what Sauron did to Numenor, his greatest and most powerful enemy, was his greatest victory even though it came at a price. It is testament to the fact he is far more dangerous than Morgoth.
Not even close. Melkor literally was the reason for the exile of the high elves(feanor and co) out of valinor. Everything that came after that is still an effect of his game
True that the downfall of Numenor was his greatest victory, but he never even approached Morgoth's dominion over the world. Heck, Morgoth had pretty much wiped out everyone who opposed him in a struggle that he slowly won over thousands of years. And he only lost in the end because the last few remnants of his foes called upon the deus ex Valar to save them. Otherwise it was all over.
Sauron was worthy to continue the legacy. Morgoth laid the foundation.Melkor brought the very concept of evil. All these orcs and trolls and fell beasts are works of Melkor. Sauron doesn't even come close to Morgoth at his peak and certainly not Melkor.
@@melkor9121 morgoth and melkor are the same
@@jangolub8240 I know. But for distinguishing pre Ea melkor and post Arda Melkor I used these terms differently. Melkor had been significantly weakened in Arda and he had come to be known as Morgoth. That's why I used them differently.
How much I desire a faithful adaption of this story to screen. Amazon crushes my soul
Yup
i want an adaption of queen beruthiel of Gondor, she seems kinda of interesting, i wonder what happened to her afterwards
> solitary
> loveless
> nefarious
> cats lady
Man, Tolkien was ahead of his time.
Bro, I keep watching these videos for literal years now and I'm still amazed how I keep learning new things. Also specific things like the crazy cat lady and how she uses them as spies. This man's writing was truly build different unlike any other piece of fiction.
The mouth is my favorite I love the big smile in PJ LOTR and the crazy cat queen is awesome lol
I always imagined the mouth of Sauron dying when the tower fell, or withering away after Saurons power was reduced to nothing
I thought his head got chopped
There is a game set after Sauron's defeat in LOTR. Half way through, you are informed of a dark, elderly man offering his services (old due to the magic disappearing). After a few days he rises to chief advisor, and he gives you really good management abilities. His portrait is a wrinkly version of the Mouth of Sauron.
@@specialunit0428 what game?
He got his head cut off
@@nikoclesceri2267 he did
The cat lady, Queen Berúthiel, really reminded me of the fact that Tolkien took inspiration from Scandinavian culture! (goddess Freya had her chariot pulled by cats, didn’t she?)
Yes but vikings respected cats and were a gift to new brides.
Could be a reference to Hecate as well (Greek goddess of magic). She had some connection to cats, and I think also had a chariot pulled by black panthers.
@@angelabecker9611 I love indoeuropean interconnection.
Beruthiel reminds me of a typical half-insane old lady that loves knitting and her house is full of cats. Except for the torture of course.
disappointed by this negative attitude about cats. 😑
The animated version does the Mouth scene the best because Aragorn says “You be no wraith beneath that mask and those robes but a man even as I” - this calls the fact that Aragorn and the Mouth are both of Numenorean descent. The Mouth should not be depicted as a monster but “beautiful” like Aragorn. The terror of the encounter comes from the fact that Numenoreans can be corrupted or fall from grace, and this means even a Numenorean with the appearance of Aragorn could be turned to evil.
I doubt Mouth of Sauron could have survived for long, his lifespan probably was already extended beyond natural limit by Sauron's sorcery. Once the Ring was unmade, any power Sauron had was broken and magic keeping his servants such as Nazgul was spent, the rest must have followed. Sauron's ring artificially kept the power, brilliance and dark shadows of old from fading but with it gone, all was free to flow down the river once again.
Probable. More than likely he fled Eest. Numernoreans were known to be able to wield magic so likely he would have found haven in Melkors cults.
I personally like the idea of Aragorn tasking then Rangers to hunt the Black Numernoreans. It would have made an interesting story.
@@nabiji Yes, but how much of a "magic" would that be? I never had chance to read it from books directly but most sources i draw my informations from, state that fading of power of magic following Sauron's fall was pretty drastic and fast, other rings of power lost their powers and enchantments within a year or so.
Sauron's ring was akin of a soul jar or phylactery, it was a relict of old ages, while a thing of pure darkness and malevolence, it was brilliant in it's own wicked way, the last glimps of ages and power that would never come to Middle Earth, and were doomed to be forever forgotten sooner or later.
But Middle Earth world is in a way a vessel of Morgoth, he poured most of his essence and wickedness into it, and as such both exist to feed the other, until the end of Arda and Morgoth. So perhaps something did remain, but weaker and no longer immortal.
Central theme in these works, at least to me, is that everything is passing, fleeting, nothing can withstand the passage of time and crumbles under it. Good, evil, is naught a but a whisper in the wind.
Their story is over now.
I'm both amused and horrified at art that depicts the Mouth of Sauron looking like a Tyrant out of Resident Evil. To me, it makes sense that someone that evil, that close to Sauron, wouldn't even look human anymore.
Obligatory Super-Nerd comment: The realm of Umbar with its population of Haradrim and Black Númenorians was - for a time - ruled by rogue members of the House of Anárion. After the Kin-Strife (the Gondorian Civil War that saw Castamir ursurp the kingship from his cousin Eldacar in TA 1437, the destruction of Osgiliath and the eventual defeat of Castsmir in 1447), the sons of Castamir lead the remaining forces of their father and the gondorian fleet to the South and established control over Umbar. Their descendants became known as the (original) Corsairs of Umbar and led many attacks against Gondor (the most devastating of which was the sacking of Pelargir in TA 1634 during which King Minardil was killed) until King Telumehtar finally reconquered Umbar and ended the line of Castamir in TA 1830.
Something tells me Tolkien wasn't a cat person ....
Also see: Huan the Hound. :)
@@NerdoftheRings don't forget Tevildo !
"I fear that to me Siamese cats belong to the fauna of Mordor, but you need not tell the cat breeder that." - Tolkien basically said that lol
The video said that Beruthiel forced those cats to spy for her. They were innocent!
Clearly, since he thought a cat can be forced to do... anything, really =]
"So you're saying I gotta die? THIS SHIT'S WHACK. BURN THAT TREE."
I have always wanted to know more about the Black Númenórians! Wonderful video, Matt!
Béruthiel and the Mouth of Sauron are both some of my favourite character in the franchise. I'm very happy both of them got featured 😁
Another amazing video, your videos are full of deatels but still amazing and fun to listen, great job!!!!!! Just keep going!!!!
Thanks so much!!
This really just sounds like Tolkien had an intense fear of cat ladies.
🐈⬛🐈❌
As an author he understood what his readers would appreciate as good story telling. Cat's and Queens.
As a cat lady, he was right to be afraid.
@@neuralmute lol!
Most normal men are, and with good reason, terrified of Feline Females.
Great video as always! Your videos are connected to my will to live almost ( don’t feel pressured ) but I’m always grateful when I get to watch a new video!
That sounds like a lot of pressure! :)
Beruthiel is reminiscent of Theodora, wife of Emperor Justinian, as described in Procopius' Secret Histories. Tolkien would probably have been familiar with this work
I'm blown away by the artwork in all these Lord of the Rings videos and how well written the commentaries are by Tolkien fans!
In the end they achieved immortality, just not in the way they imagined it . (Even though they all died eventually).
Morgoth and his minions like Sauron which are Tolkien's analog for the devil and his minions only came to steal, kill, destroy and corrupt to repeat the process all over again.
Only a fool makes deals with the Devil…
@@spiderdude2099
Yet people keep doing it, i wonder why?
@@CatBitchNami Because the flesh forgets the soul
@@jeromebirth2693
Give a less ambiguous answer please.
Watching your video is more enjoyable than Rings of Power
i am amazed by this video! it’s obvious how much time and effort you put into this and i learned so much!
I still believe it was the Mouth of Sauron who visited the Dwarves, for the simple fact the visitor refers to Sauron in those several meetings as "Sauron The Great" which is exactly what the Mouth of Sauron calls Sauron when speaking to Gandalf and Aragorn at that black gates.
Plus as his name implies he is the literal Mouth Piece of Sauron, so would Sauron send a Nazgul, which are his warriors to deliver a message to the dwarves when he already has an Emissary for that exact purpose ie the Mouth of Sauron. Also IIRC the visitor was referred to as being a Man, which of course the Nazgul weren't men anymore by this time.
Dude was Sauron's lawyer. Now that is EVIL.
Oh man, I still have these non-canon knockoff books by Dmitri Souslin where Bilbo was dragged off to the sea to find... uhhh... I think it was a Palantir from Queen Beruthiel and her scary cats. Thanks for reminding me I was stupid enough kid to not know better)) Gotta read them again after so many years, just for fun🤣
Also, late Numenor with human sacrifices and Sauron cult is just plain awesome thing to learn/be reminded of👍
I'm very curious about these knock-off stories! Do you know what any were called?
@@NerdoftheRings Yes, I actually have Book 2 (called "The Hobbit and Saruman") and Book 3 (called "The Hobbit and the One Ring") in front of me. Apparently, this trilogy of novels was reprinted in 2001-2003 to coincide with Peter Jackson's trilogy, while originally written in 2000-2001.
No English sources from quick googling though. I smell copyright violation ergo russian bookstores-only distribution)
Oh wow. I’m very curious to see what these books look like! Have you found them online anywhere? Or if you wouldn’t mind, could you shoot me an email? (Email in the “about” section)
@@NerdoftheRings I actually tried to link you how these books look here in the comment section, but it didn't go through. RUclips is weird sometimes.
I'll email you everything bit later since I'm not home atm👍
@@NerdoftheRings There is also a book series called "The Ring of Darkness" by Nik Perumov, quite famous russian fantasy author. He says it's like a "free sequel to LOTR just out of love to original books". So basically a fanfiction, but by a quite known author here in Russia
The Black Numenoreans were successfully integrated into my forces.
I really appreciate your commitment to diversity.
Boss of the year right here.
Oh I see how it is. Trump isn’t allowed on social media but the dark lord Sauron is.
I think the correct term is Numenoreans of Color.
Like Black Air Force energy?
I might be the only one who wants a tv show about the ringwraiths or more specifically the witch-king.
The whole section in Return of the King featuring The Mouth is one of my favorite parts of the entire story.. ya just gotta love that dialogue.
Wow I always wondered what Aragorn meant when he mentioned the cats of Queen Berúthiel to the fellowship and I wonder if Gandalf or even Boromir understood the reference
ad imagine galadriel and Elrond living through all of that happened in Age 3, no wonder they got tired.
Gandalf knew i bet. I never knew this but that's the beauty of Tolkien works so much lore!
Boromir knew, any Gondorian would.
This is insanely good. You truly have the nerd ring of power.
You know it's a celebration when NOTR uploads, GOATed channel.
"I guess that concludes negotiations." Still love that part
NERD OF THE RINGS IS AN ALL TIME GOAT 🐐 THESE VIDEOS ARE NUTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
cool vid Matt enjoyed it looking forward to the next
In an interview from 1966, Tolkien likened Beruthiel to the giantess Skadi, Skade, or Skathi of Norse mythology, since they both shared a dislike for "seaside life".
Great video, the Mouth of Sauron has always been intriguing! I would love to see more of Mordor talked about and who else lived there besides the Orcs. I think I heard years ago that there was vast farmland in the south of Mordor that provided food and supplies for Sauron's forces, located around the Sea of Nurnen, and we know so little about Lithlad in the east of Mordor. I seem to recall in the Two Towers that Sauron's easterling armies marched to the Black Gate instead of entering from the eastern side, where I'm sure Sauron would have placed fortifications as well.
so I'm watching this video and the moment the Queen's ship is mentioned, my own black cat comes to me and rubs my legs.
Im watching this video and I look out my window and MY black cat is walking up to the house with a dead rabbit in his mouth! I love my cat =)
I always loved the lore of the 'evil' groups of Men; Black Numenoreans, Easterlings, Haradrim, Men of Umbar, Variags etc. They just seem so mysterious and compelling. I wish Tolkien wrote more about the East and South places of Middle Earth.
Not evil - misguided and victimized by evil.
@Hydra Force Most plausible is that mornumenedain gradually disappeared into history. Mouth of Sauron was last vague memory of them and his slavish devotion to Sauron would not have rang well with domineering, prideful mornumenedain.
If he elaborated more on them, they would lose all mystery because they would start to strongly resemble regular boring officials, politicians, clergy, military men and normal people that you see every day. Including the one in your mirror.
@@damasek219 Yeah, it would all lead our expectations to being subverted.
I'm more happy to use my imagination to fill in those gaps. I'm glad Tolkien ended it when he did, left us wanting more but satisfied with what we got. 🙌
Fantastic video man. Would love a video on history of the haradrim or history of the Edain
"Arr, I hate the sea and everything in it." -Queen Beruthiel
I remember the first time I read “The Downfall of Numenor” and how Sauron allowed himself to be captured, what they ended up doing to shun the Valar and then creating the awful ceremonies they performed on their own people. Made me sick to my stomach.
I feel ya on that one.
If the man made stories make you feel I'll, then I'd hate to find out what would happen to you when you read about the real stories of what happened in our past...
@@normansawatzky4778 Not the right place to bring those up, over here we're tryna do some good old escapism (yeah into the darkest bits of the lore but it's still fictional so it works lol), which is also what Tolkien intended his works to be.
Lol
Wow. Did not know there was a Black Numenorean Queen. Talk about a house divided.
some really cool artwork that i haven't seen before. getting inspired over here. thanks for putting this together. even though i'm already quite familiar with tolkien's work and the histories of arda, i still enjoy listening to stuff like this. appreciate you.
solid voice acting on the mouth of sauron my dude
I've always wanted to know more about the mouth of Sauron
He is an interesting character. I thought how they portrayed him in RotK was brilliantly done. Honestly sad that it was left out of the theatrical release.
@@bens9792 yeah
He’s angry because he has got all them teeth but no toothbrush!
@@nathandittmer388 the medulla oblongata strikes again!
@@nathandittmer388 LOL
ok, forget the barrow whights, Beruthiel is the scariest legendarium character
Thank you for all your research. Great video
Amazing channel, love the content and the way its presented.
💪💪💪🌠🌠✌
I can imagine Sauron in Númenor being abit like Grima Wormtongue on steroids 😂
Oh this Cat Queen sounds so cool !
Kind of annoying how in the movies they had Aragorn just murder the Mouth of Sauron while they were negotiating, seems out of character with how dishonorable it was
NOTR is one of the greatest channel who ever walked on Middle Earth !
Nice video i rly liked it! I think you missed Castamir the Usurper, who was member of a cadet branch of the Gondorian Royal Family and after his depose he taken Umbar with his followers. After a few centuries his line was exterminated by Gondor, but probably many of his followers descendants survived. That ex Gondorians probably were a great blood refresh for the dieing out Black Numenoreans.
I would love a theory video of an alternative timeline where Gandalf realizes that Bilbo has the One Ring at the start of the Lord of the Rings, and that he then directly travels with Bilbo to Rivendell to consult Elrond about the ring.
- Would Gandalf still go to Isengard or would Saruman be summoned to Rivendell, and would Saruman's treachery be exposed in that way?
- Would Bilbo feel an obligation to take the ring to Mordor, or would he think of Frodo and still recommend him to become the ring-bearer?
- The ringwraiths would not have reached the Shire before Gandalf and Bilbo got to Rivendell, so what would the ringwraiths be doing instead?
- Would the planned route to Mordor change if Bilbo was the ringbearer, or would they still try the same path (ergo, would Bilbo's own personality, knowledge and experience change the planned or taken road)?
- Would the rest of the Fellowship (Aragorn, Boromir, Gimli, Legolas, and Gandalf) support Bilbo as a ringbearer, and would the dynamic of the group change if the only hobbit in the group was Bilbo and the fellowship only had 6 members? Would other members join in to bump the number up to 9 somehow?
- Would Gandalf or Bilbo have the idea to bring along Frodo? Would Frodo bring his other friends?
- Would Bilbo be affected by the ring sooner/harder, and how would it change the story?
I can imagine that this alternative timeline could go in too many directions to be able to talk about them all, but it would be interesting to jump into this alternative and play around with the idea. Maybe compare how Bilbo would fare if the quest took them on the same route as the original Fellowship, and how the road probably would look and be different if Bilbo was the only hobbit and ringbearer.
Bilbo had gotten so accustomed to the ring I doubt he would willing to offer to be the one to destroy it if he took part in that council meeting with all the shouting. He has experience from the Erebor trip but he's getting old...
Awesome Artwork as usual!!
A horror movie based on their human sacrifice to morgoth would be terrifying
it would probably come out like a high fantasy version of all those cheesy satanic cult films
Hey!
I'm just asking, which music is playing during your outro? It's very beautiful!
Anyways, great video!
3:30 Now there's a picture of a happy couple.
I absolutely love this channel!!!
I wonder what dark secrets Beruthiel uncovered, seeing as the Gondorians were supposed to be the good guys and wether it caused her exile.
Not all were good, I imagine. Otherwise there would be no reason to hate her and her cats
Good guys = normal people
@@leonardofaber5823 there was actually several reasons to dislike her, as mentioned in the video.
They are only good guys because they bow to the valar.
I can see it now, "Beruthiel tells all -- dark secrets of Gondorian revealed --" this week in the Umbar Star!"
Idk why but I kinda like Queen Beruthiel
She's the ultimate cat lady and a connoiseur of artforms beyond the agreed upon canon
I'm surprised you didn't mention the Kin-Strife of Gondor, where the Numenorean aristocracy was split by the prospect of Eldacar, only half-Numenorean, coming to the throne, and their leader, Castamir, usurped him. While Eldacar reclaimed the throne and Castamir the Usurper was killed, his sons and their followers fled to Umbar after being besieged at Pelargir - thus bulking up the Black Numenorean numbers as the Corsairs of Umbar.
Excellent, informative vid. Looking forward to wending my way through all of your RUclips content. Keep up the great work.
Great video as always!! Would you consider doing a video analyzing the races of men, similar to the videos you made regarding elves, dwarves and orcs? I have to say, you have done a spectacular job with this channel!!
Great video again!
I think it's really interesting how the kings of Númenór mirror the kings of ancient Judah. with them slowly turning away from God. and just like king Josiah Tar-Palantir returns to the Valar
🙏🙏
My dad and I talk about that a lot. We definitely see the symbolism match!
That's the point
It's a mix of Homer's tale of Atlantis, mixed with Noah's Ark story, and yes some of the Judaic lore.
@1:56 I got Belshazzar vibes (Nebuchadnezzar's son) especially with the narration saying, they were feasting and drinking and clading themselves in silver and gold.
Smeagol forgot his own name for a long while too. This aspect of corruption is metaphorical in that one can forget who they really are when seeking and holding power at all costs.
If you take into account the might of Sauron from the opening of the first movie i recon that Sauron will need approx 20 hours of swinging his mace in order to obliterated the numenoreans.
The numenoreans were too numerous for the guy’s poor shoulder.
That evil rotator cuff can only take so much
@@alex0589 actually that was another of his many titles. Lord of Cuffs
That's all of them too. Rotator, Sleeve, hand, links and many many more cuffs.
Why swing a Mace when your tongue can obliterate a race for you...
I believe there were other videos that said they had no idea who the ring wraiths were and this showed a great light on it. Thank you for that
"Sauron corrupts the hearts and minds of the kingsmen so deeply, that they brutally oppress the men of Middle Earth during this period. Despite Sauron's promises, the kingsmen do not escape death. In fact, they're plagued by all sort of illnesses and mental afflictions, to the point that they curse themselves in their agony." I find this passage particularly interesting in light of the current events in the world.
Well said. Remain true to the Faithful : )
Same.
What happened to those who were plagued by mental afflictions from the start, and that's why they joined Sauron? ;)
Yes,all this New age practices...
People are not more mentally ill now than in the past; we have always had mental illness. Rather, we do not stigmatise it, and our diagnostic criteria are better, so more people are diagnosed and able to receive treatment.
It's the same with vaccines and autism. There is no causal relationship, but autism coincidentally became better understood, and also stopped being seen as a fundamental character flaw, around the same time as mandatory/recommended vaccinations became more prevalent.
literally the best channel for LOTR
time to cop me a map of New Zealand for the recording room
Love that you used a pic of Agandaur from War in the North when you mentioned known Black Númenóreans
Queen Berúthiel the crazy cat lady lol
I've been waiting for your videos 🥰 they keep me company when I am working 😄💙
Glad they could help you get through the work day! :)
@@NerdoftheRings they Really do keep up the good content 😁
Imagine if a full, complete book series were found where Tolkien finished writing down his thoughts. Dreams 😔
I have a fealing that it woud end whit Ragnarok where the earth is destroyed and remade in our curent planet.
We'll have to wait until the Second Music of the Ainur.
Check out the works of Christpher Tolkien. He and the estate are doing JRR great justice.
That’s a great video!!! I enjoyed it so much I had to pick up my phone to comment. Well done.
In Brian Jacques’s Mossflower (a Redwall book) the Villainess, Queen Tsarmina Greeneyes, was an anthropomorphic wildcat named after Russian Empresses (Tsarmina is Tsarina with “mean” in it).
I noticed in the pictures of Beruthiel at 7:15, asides from all the cats, one image has her wearing a crown with a logo of a green eye 👁.
Do you think it was possible the late Mr. Jacques was inspired by this Tolkien character? She also seems to vaguely echo parallels with the White Witch of Narnia, as the Numenorians do the Witch’s people.
Either way, she’s the ultimate crazy cat lady.
Redwall!!!!
I noticed the same about the White Witch.
you are a good remedy for what I hear about "the rings of power". Thank you!
LOTR movie concept artists: Okay Mr. Jackson, what should this “Mouth of Sauron” look like? There’s no description of his face in the book.
Peter Jackson: Give him a mouth that takes up 30% of his face with gross black lips and giant ugly teeth that look like they haven’t been brushed…ever.
Lol
You say that.. but it's not far from what actually happened. Except at first his mouth was rotated 90°. Apparently, that was too much.
@@masansr In the end they actialy fliped his mouth and that was beter as it made it super weird and scary.
That queen Beruthiel character sounds like the patron saint of crazy cat ladies 😬
Ar-Gimilkhad and the Ar-Adûnaim!
They might not be canon in the slightest, but I adore their story from Divide & Conquer.
Very Excellent video, Thoroughly enjoyed. Liked and Subbed good sir of the rings
Thanks so much! Glad you are enjoying the channel!!
Awesome lore video as always.
This was a super good video! I learned so much! I really never put those points together. Also, it was awesome to learn about Queen Beruthiel! They just released her as an evil leader in Rise to war LOTR phone game and I wanted to know more about her! Thanks Nerd of the Rings! Another Great video!
Mouth of Sauron looks and sounds so evil and creepy.
i like the that, he goes off a list of special thanks...than follows it up.... and debbie
The Nazgul were the dark reflection of the Fellowship of the Ring. What a scary parallel.
Quite the opposite, for the Nazgûl came first. But I get your point
The 9! The 9!
Excellent video. Well done!
5:36 - Decent depiction of Sauron. Many depictions of him have been underwhelming. His power was shown in his eyes.
I kind of like his human depictions being underwhelming because it further supports that his enemies would not see him as a direct threat. Meanwhile, Sauron is sewing deception and enthralling literal kings behind the scenes to do his bidding. It seems to be more of a strategic method of planning that way. Sauron was powerful, but even he knew that he'd need as much advantages he could muster to defeat the free people of Middle-Earth.
"Remember me, Elendil? When I corrupted Númenor, I talked...just...like...THIS!!!".
This channel got me in to Tolkien again so happy i found this channel
I love seeing comments like this! So glad you are enjoying the channel!