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"Necromancer" 1. Practices divination by summoning spirits of the dead? Confirmed. 2. Practices the darkest of magics with the evilest of intentions? Confirmed. 3. Summons and/or creates minions who should by rights be dead, but who are infused with unnatural life? Confirmed. Yeah, Sauron can fulfill any and all definitions of Necromancer. The alias is well-chosen, in my opinion.
Easy to forget it’s THOUSANDS of years between some of these events.. would be like finding out today that the creepy dude in the forest is actually some long forgotten Egyptian pharaoh / Gandalf is the only Egyptologist who could piece it together😳
"The power of Oaths" There's a reason, I hear, that Elrond explicitly mentioned that the Fellowship of the Ring should NOT be oathed to Frodo, but instead accompany on their own free will. The man knew exactly how terrible an Oath can be because of Feanor.
Not to mention that the One Ring was a tool of binding, of establishing power over others. It was already dangerous for anyone to be in close proximity to the Ring. I imagine swearing oaths to its bearer would be like inviting a fox into a hen house.
When clicking on this video I knew exactly that I basically know all there is to know about Sauron. But just the sheer quality of these videos are so good that I enjoy watching them even though I wouldn't learn anything new.
It's incredible how large how varied Sauron figured throughout the history of Middle Earth. How many forms he had, and how many schemes and empires - and yet had no dialogue in the main work, and only a few scenes of dialogue in the whole cannon. He's basically the Devil. Behind every plot, constantly scheming throughout all history in all kinds of places, yet unknown and always in the shadows
The Dark Lord from Tolkien description are always this patient entities. It bores into Tolkien mind that the Dark Lord Morgoth and Sauron are his perception from big time industry businessmen. Most people do not know that there's a lot of things from Tolkien world that are related to our world. The author's love of green hills from Sarehole, central Birmingham that made him inspired to create The Shire. Sauron long arduous task in sustaining his weapons of war is a reminiscence of Tolkien harrowing days as a soldier in trenches from WW1. And Saruman wreak havoc over the Old Forest and The Shire is a testament of Tolkien views over industrialization taking much over England as he saw.
I've always wondered what the "make a new body" process is like. Not just in Tolkien, it's pretty common for otherworldly bad guys in lots of fiction. Like, is it this slow, more ethereal and spiritual process, or do they have to literally will and cultivate a new body over decades. Just a fleshy mound for a few decades that finally starts to take form...?
@@ZiggyMandarr Either they grow their body from zero, beginning as a baby and waiting until it matures or they slowly form the body out of ethereal magic.
I love how u just jump right into ur title topic! Makes me happy to see every new episode u come out with and i listen whether i already know what you are going to go over or not! Thanks man or women who are behind this channel! All the background ppl as well! A good channel becomes great when you have a team and the insight and creative thinking you exhibit! TY
I imagine he would carry a harmless good looking form to convince Elves, Men, and Dwarves that he was a good guy; not just being cliché, having a handsome face with a sly, evil smirk to say “yeah, I look evil but you’re gonna listen to me anyway”
Sauron's fairest form, "Annatar, Lord of Gifts", was indeed supposed to be a physically beautiful, Elvish/Human-looking male being but, due to his far larger size (probably roughly the size of a troll), and also by his explicit references to the Blessed Realm and his clearly having been there, Sauron was presenting himself by implication as a "good" Maiar who had simply never been encountered by the Elves before. However, to the wisest & most perceptive Elves such as Elrond, 1.) Annatar was clearly not all that he seemed and 2.) Annatar looked fair, but felt disturbingly somehow wrong.
Sauron was a master of transformation. Taking many different forms throughout his existence. Though no doubt deceiving & malevolent. He could also walk completely invisible within this world, the one ring was imbued with that inherent power of his. Anyone who put it on would enter the world of spirits, invisible to mortal eyes, yet corrupted.
I've mentioned it before that I think your character voices are fantastic. Hearing your Gandalf in this video made me realize that not only are they fantastic, but they are *consistent* as well. Very tough to do! Thanks for being awesome 😎
I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned that the ring itself can expand someones lifespan by hundreds of years like it did Gollum. And that had saurons own power put into it even if it wasnt intentional. Though i wonder if that only happens because of how mortals are affected by a Maia's power or because it was saurons specific dark magic that causes it. Because if its the latter, extending lifespan is some form of necromancy even if it isnt as grand or flashy as summoning the dead
Sauron not only crafted the rings with great magics, but he infused the one with much of his own spirit and power. It has its own power as well as enhancing the user with the power of sauron himself.
Sauron's original pitch to the elves of Eregion was that his gifts could aid in the elvish desire to 'preserve' things. He fashioned the great Rings of Power partly to ensnare the elves through this desire. Mortals were never ment to wield any of these rings. In the hands of a mortal, it 'stretches' out the life of its user. This is a supremely unnatural occurance as it is against the plan of Eru as expressed in the music of the Ainar. Given enough time, all mortals that wield the rings will be drawn out of the mortal plane and into the shadow realm as wraiths.
I wonder how Sauron reacted when he found out his ring was so close to him and being actively used during the events of The Hobbit and he never noticed XD
I'm sure he had Orcs skimming the river for centuries to try to find the Ring but had assumed it got washed out into the sea. The Ring didn't "awaken" until LOTR. Maybe when Gollum was captured, that was the first time Sauron knew the Ring wasn't lost in the sea.
@@HomoSerenus3 not an expert but I think it didn't "feel" Sauron either. He had to grow to a certain level of power for it to sense him. Which took time.
@@jensendkmg7209 that and the power the ring has is relative to the person wielding it, gollum probably made the ring weaker just by virtue of being the one to use it during that time.
I am reminded of Isaiah 8:19-20. Why consult the dead on behalf of the living. The comment 11:50-12:20 is truthful. In the LOTR, it’s also a reminder why the domination of others is a wicked act and is different from a divine right to rule.
One of the coolest topics within the Third Age -lore! As a small kid, I remember thinking how cool it is that there's actually another 'dark lord' -type of threat within the verse, and within such cool location on the map, to boot. Only to understand later on that they were one and the same all along! Love the visuals, they go so well with the narration. This channel is an A+ experience.
The original usage of the word necromancy in real history was for the practice of summoning the dead and demons for the purpose of gaining knowledge and treasures, and was seen and practiced as a sort od "reverse exorcism." So, it was practiced by priests in private, but was mostly frowned upon by the wider church.
the fact he controls the wraiths + orks which are both essentially dead men and dead elves twisted by darkness you could say he was a necromancer to a degree.
Orcs are indeed the result of Melkor (Morgoth) having captured, tortured, twisted, and transformed Elves until he had bred into existence the lines of Orcs... but Orcs are NOT dead. They are living creatures-and need food & water & shelter etc to exist.
I said it before but LOTR truly is the best Christian fan fiction to ever been written, one can see the how Tolkien applied his faith in this epic of good and evil, I mean Sauron straight up can not create just corrupt just like the devil, he’s a trickster, charmer, crafts men. A man striving to be like god and thus in doing so becoming pure evil… I’m not even Christian but I still love it, subtle and one would never think about this just through watching or reading the material.
Yes! Someone who tried to dabble in the magic of the unseen world. I love how Tolkien managed to create all these small stories and interesting ideas and tie it all together.
Am I just lucky? Here I am at the return of one of my special mini conventions “Librari-Con”, and I’m dressed up as the lord Sauron as a Sith Lord. Then lo and behold this pops up. I love watching my man Sauron go to work!
As a normie, and what many eould call a "casual" Tolkein enthusiast; I alwaus imagined Sauron's nickname of Necromamcer coming from the fact that he had bound his soul to The One Ring and become disembodied when he lost it. Then, using his sorcery, or necromancy to gradually rebuild hos strength and physical form. Thus resurrecting himself and gaining a mastery over souls and being dubbed a Necromancer. Great video.
A necromancer would be someone like the bad dude in Lovecraft's The Case of Charles Dexter Ward. I did not think why Sauron should be called one until later that he had control of Ringwraiths and the Barrow Wights. You made a very nice, thoughtful dissertation here, Thanks
I love all of your videos! you offer carefully-crafted explanations that get straight to the point while giving us further insight into the story. I'd love to see a video dedicated to other Maiar such as Melian, Arien, Ossë, etc.
An etymological linguistic analysis of “Necromancer” would simply have it mean something like: “A practitioner of deadly, harmful, corrupting magical powers.” Necromancer = “One who practices Necromancy” Necromancy = “Necro+Mancy” Necro = “Dead(ly)/Harmful/Corrupt Mancy = “Magical control of or related to a specific element, substance, or theme.”
The suffix "-mancy" does mean what you describe today, but historically it specifically refered to magic as divination or soothsaying. A necromancer would have been someone who communes with the dead (think Ouija board or seances), though Tolkien's necromancer as a bodyless Sauron or Nazgul is more like a dead entity communicating with the world of the living.
The book The Fall of Númenor says: "Sauron, however, inherited the 'corruption' of Arda." In HoME-Morgoth's Ring, it is mentioned that everything in Arda, including spiritual beings, is tainted to a certain extent by Melkor's will. In this context, Sauron's use of these spiritual beings for his own purposes forms the basis of his Necromancer character. This character of Sauron was valid even before Melkor was banished. This character structure is also functional in terms of providing the soul for the metaphysical existence of the orcs for the sustainability of the orc population.
My issue with this, then, isn't the question of "did Sauron hold any power, or sway, over the dead", so much as we're led to believe that, at least for a time, the Wise weren't aware that "the Necromancer" WAS Sauron. If they had known the weakened Dark Lord was there, they might've taken greater risks to disembody him, again, and lengthen the time before he could truly rise to prominence. Since they believed that this being was more judt some mortal sorcerer, or at worst a Nazgul, it's weird to me that theyvaccepted this man, whomever he was could do such potent dark magic. So, a silly question; how was Dol Guldur created? We get that Orcs snuck in, and eventually built the place, but how dod SO MANY enter the forest, without the Elves of Thranduil retaliating? There must have been a window of time before the site was readyvto host the Necromancer, when he wasnt there, and it seems weird that such massive, loud construction could occur without the Elves hraring of it, or refusing too intervene. If there wasnt a convenient network of tunnels, the Orcs would have had to stride across open land, and bring food, or strip the forest, which should have alerted the Elves to them, who wouldn't want such as permanent neighbors. It makes me wish we had seen some other people who could use lesser magic, or maybe Alchemy, or Artifice, that served Sauron, and could give the Orcs the edge to fight the Elves on their own turf, and while trying to build the intimidating fortress. Oh well.
Dol Guldur was built by elves who later abandoned it when Sauron's evil presence took over that part of Mirkwood. Galadriel obviously knew there was something evil in Mirkwood but she and the other elves stayed in Lorien because it was protected from orcs and other evil by her ring. One reason why the wise waited to kick Sauron out of Dol Guldur until the dwarves and Bilbo were doing their thing at the Lonely Mountain was so that Smaug and Sauron wouldn't be able to help each other.
One of the most notable myths regarding necromancy was where Othinn of Nordic Mythologie desired knowledge of Ragnarok and ended up using Necromancy to commune with the dead to divine the future. The act itself was a horrid thing, and yet Othinn sought to know the future to protect humanity as best he could from it against the Jotunnr or so goes the myths. The Norse had the best myths and tales, and Tolkien borrowed extensively from them and was honestly able to write stories that were their equal. Always loved that Sauron was called the Necromancer.
My understanding the entire time was that Sauron basically was calling to his service the wraiths who were dead and buried like the witch king. So his necromancy was mainly due to that.
This information may be non canonical, but in The Hobbit game published in 2003, in the game chapter Flies and Spiders, in about the middle of the level you will encounter undead enemies and a boss that are supposedly servants of the necromancer. Now, they never actually encountered undead in The Hobbit (book), but it does show that even a minor game stayed rather close to the lore....unlike Rings of Power.
In "The Hobbit", the Necromancer only really serves as an excuse for Gandalf to disappear for much of the story. At the start of the story, Bilbo is essentially a child. The quest allows him to grow into an adult - something he would not have been able to do if Gandalf was around all the time. Gandalf didn't know that the Necromancer was Sauron during the time of "The Hobbit" - at least not in the earlier version. If he had, it would make no sense for him not to make the connection between Bilbo finding the Ring and the reappearance of Sauron.
Why did Gandalf protect the Nazgûl? Anytime anyone suggests destroying one or all, he says that the Ringwraiths are “beyond” their capabilities, yet it was stated clearly that Frodo alone could have killed the Witch King using Sting.
Maybe "Necromancy" in Tolkien's context meant "Death-Magic". A plague that kills hundreds of thousands, conjuring dark beasts, werewolves, and vampires all which prey on mortals. Maybe the purpose was to cause mass-death, or being in control of the flow of death.
it's interesting to think sauron as the necromancer could just hang out in mirkwood for so long. like, nobody thought to deal with the necromancer in all that time
They did try a few times, and even managed to make him flee. But Sauron is one of strongest beings of Middle Earth so those who tried (before Gandalf and co.) would be dead at best.
Who could co something about the necromancer? Only Gandalf, Elrond, and Galadriel had the power as well as the will (not sure when Glorfindel returned), and the later two were busy protecting their own realms.
I really love you videos, thank you for all the time and effort you invested in them! Fun sidenote: during almost every single video of yours I come to think: omg there is so much amazing background lore the rings of power could immediately adapt to improve. And each time I know full well it's folly to expect such things happening ;)
For example the entire part of souls being trapped due to them refusing the call as they are somehow "tainted" or maybe carry some kind of guilt could in my opinion be easily adapted into the motivational arch of Sauron. Perhaps in Saurons view they are just as much part of the world as the living? And he can offer them a role in it - unlike it is the case within the existing order? I think it's much more fun to fiddle with existing ideas in the lotr universe than making up Mithril stories that could just as well be part of tof any exchangeable universe.
I think it is clear that Sauron had great power over beings who were dead or at least not alive in the conventional sense. The Nazgûl alone demonstrate that and when you add in all the others examples and discussions that NOTR provided, I think it is a slam dunk.
Sauron is a necromancer by definition, not alternate, he used the one ring to escape death and remained alive and separated from a physical form. Even that manipulation would fall under the realm of necromancy cause it was preventing his death, giving him a form of unlife/undeath, so I say yes, he was a necromancer through and through in all the ways we know today.
Sauron didn't make The One Ring "to escape death", because although his physical form can be killed (as happened at least twice in the history of Middle Earth), his powerful supernatural spirit could NOT be killed. He made The Ring to transform & amplify his intrinsic power-and in fact, creating The Ring made him MORE vulnerable, in one sense: he embedded SO MUCH of his power into The Ring that, if it WAS destroyed, then he would be destroyed.
I like the GW interpretation with the Castellans of Dol Guldur, essentially "mini Nazgul" like warriors created by Sauron in Dol Guldur, probably former Woodmen who were captured in Mirkwood and turned into undead spirits in service of the Necromancer
Early congrats on 1M subscribers. I found your channel about a year ago in the lead-up to TRoP and have genuinely enjoyed every video since. Thank you for your hard work!
The simplest explanation still applies, which is that sauron was in hiding and the people of middle earth did not know or understand who he was or what he was doing and they slightly mislabeled him as a "Necromancer" to scare others away from him. Just like how people used to be accused of witchcraft when they weren't actual witches.
Explicitly the wraiths are necromancy. Promise to mortals of living forever then being enslaved. The nine are essentially undead spirits who serve him unquestioning and hunt his enemies. Which is necromancy.
Apparently Tolkien had no plan for LOTR, but the connection of the idea of a necromancer in the Hobbit and the wraiths of Sauron in LOTR is pretty obvious.
6:50 Can I just say how much I love that official art of Sauron? I know everyone love that towering spiky black knight armor, but that picture really spells out Sauron's menace as the shadow over the lands that his armored form doesn't convey.
I think an important piece is who gave the name of necromancer and subsequently who referred to him as such. Its not like Sauron dubbed himself that it would seem (or if he did it would likely be for purposes of deception).
I missed this video until now, it's a very good summing up, really. It's been more than twenty years since I posted a quote from the "Laws And Customs Among The Elder" section of 'Morgoth's Ring' making this connection with my small suggestion that it may explain why Sauron was called the Necromancer. The post in question was when I was so called "special guest" on Cliff Broadway's old "Green Books" section of the original TORN website when Jackson's film were still in production. Glad, finally, to get some concurrence! The quote was item number 15 from my contribution entitled "Tolkien's Greatest sleepers:
Very cool. My only quibble would be "creating werewolves" etc & it is simply a quibble. Creation was reserved for Eru Ilúvatar but it is clear what you meant. I feel bad, very sympathetic, to the elves who did not move on. I wish there would have been some way to cleanse them. But, ss explained, they became twisted.
Tolkien could have easily written The Hobbit without crafting such a detailed world behind the scenes, but then he would not have had the material to write The Lord of the Rings! Goes to show how true passion is rewarded.
It was actually the reverse. He created the world first (and the Silmarillion) and wrote the Hobbit later on, which was initially unrelated but later adapted into the world he had already created. But the Silmarillion was only published much later after the Hobbit and then the Lord of the Rings became popular.
One of the most fascinating beings in Tolkien. He values order more than his boss did, which sort of makes him an opposite extreme. He's a parasite, as compared to Morgoth who simply overwhelmed everyone and everything who wasn't extremely powerful. The dead don't have much in the way of defense against such a leech. Speaks to how trifling he is.
During the 1st and 2nd age, how much territory did the high elves own of what is now the reunited kingdom? I’m playing third age total war and I’d like to make a lore accurate high elven kingdom that reflects the elves territory at the height of their power. Thanks in advance😊
Interested etymology: In classical Latin, it was "necromantia" with necro meaning death, but in the medieval period it was written as some variation of "nigromauncy," with nigro suggesting "black" rather than death
So there’s an old book and I can’t remember what its called but it had various art inspired by Tolkien’s Mythology and one was called “The Necromancer” it was just a figure in obscuring black robes in a dark room in front of a brazier of some kind. That’s “Sauron the Necromancer” to me…
Re: Tolkein’s dead, un-dead, quasi-dead, and necromancy: it isn’t like Voudoun. It isn’t, except that the Groos Bon Ange[l] can animate a body devoid of will or deep thought and the [pe]Tí[t] Bon Ange[l] is the special personality part: that’s the part Tolkien would have called back the the Source. Tolkien was a British subject, and he studied Norse mythology partly because plenty of other scholars had the Greco-Roman world (and to an extent, German stuff) already studied over generations, and he wanted to to something -scholarship- that had been paid less attention to. What if he’d been born American ? Maybe he would’ve studied the esoteric myths brought by black-folks to North & South America and the Caribbean ? Zora Neal Huston: I love her because she’s such a great writer: it isn’t just because she studied Haiti for a while… it’s those two great things together: excellent “authoring” coupled with excellent scholarship: ZNH had both, and so did JRRT 🤔
I would include much of what Sauron did in Numenor in the necromancy category, particularly once he had free reign to hold his disturbing ceremonies in the tower. Tolkien insinuates there was all sorts of things going on, from human sacrifice to torture and more.
3:13: I bet a lot of Hobbit readers thought the same, hence why the sequel The Lord of the Rings came to be. Really smart retcon work, I'll say. Brings into mind certain plot points involving Brainiac and Terry McGinnis in the DC Animated Universe.
Another fantastic video! These descriptions of Sauron remind me of how Mumm-Ra is portrayed in Thundercats, but I'm probably just being a Cats fanboy. 🤣🤣
If you are master of Ring Wraiths and places like Minas Morgul, then, in my book, you fully deserve the title of Necromancer. In the full AD&D sense of the word! 😱
I think a simpler explanaition is that Tolkein never bothered to define what exactly Sauron was up to in the Hobbit. The Necromancer was a throwaway character, off stage and mainly a reason for Gandalf to leave the party. Only later did Tolkein retcon him to be Sauron when tying the two stories together. What fiddling with the dead he was doing in the Hobbit got lost in the shuffle.
Thank you @NerdoftheRings! I for one - have read Tolkien books back in the late 70's early 80's. Here and in other videos you note: "The History of Middle Earth: Volume 10" - and other works, but I was wondering if you could list all the books that are considered 'canon' please? Cause I only know of The Hobbit, LotR, The Silmarilion, Book of Lost Tales in reference to the universe that is Middle Earth.
I saw your Video of the New Shadow. I personally allways thought that had it been written it was Tolkiens intent to have Saruman as the new Dark Lord. In the LOTR Gandalf talks about how Saruman most deeply studied the lore of the Rings and how they were made. Then when he tells the story of his entrapment by Saruman at Isengard to the council in Imladres he describes Saruman on the steps of the Tower and says " He had a Ring on his Finger". He mentions Sarumans Ring once more after that . I believe his intent was to make it that Sarumans spirit like Saurons after his first defeat fled to waste places until he began to grow again . I think his intent was that Saruman wiuld do the same and return and take up his own ring again ( although probably less powerful) . I think it was Sarumans Ring that gave him the power over the Orcs in his service so 5hat they weren't drawn to Saurons service and his power over the Dunlanders as well.
That's a very intriguing observation! As a Maia, Saruman wouldn't be 'slain' as he apparently was, in the Scouring of the Shire. And it's interesting to note that he was significantly weaker there, merely capable of a few mean acts (as Tolkien worded it), when several years before he was capable of imprisoning Gandalf the Gray, and resisting the Nazgul less than a year before. If he used ringcraft to transfer and enhance his power, and then set it away for whatever reason, it would explain why he had diminished so greatly. And give him a few hundred years or more to reform (as it seemed to take Sauron when he suffered such events), let him reclaim his own Ring, and I'd say he comes back to about the power level he was while in Isengard. And conveniently enough for him, when he rose again Aragorn would have passed away, and Gandalf and most of the Elves (at the very least the last of the Noldor) would have gone over the sea. This would leave him with just Men to deal with, something he was more than capable of.
@@scoobysnacker1999 That was part of my theory as well , that Saruman had put away his ring as Sauron had done when he went to Numenor as Ar-Pharazons hostage only to come back to retrieve it once Numenor was destroyed. I think he was hiding it because he knew Gandalf and the Noldor would all be leaving after Sauron was destroyed .
@@jameshatfield2473 A smart play on his part, if so; the ultimate tactical retreat. Even with his ring, he's unable to contend with Gandalf the White, so he fakes his death and waits until the coast is clear. And it's interesting to consider this; it's completely canon that Maia don't actually die. And the stuff he did, the "devilry" he devised- very much what Men embraced. Gunpowder and behind the scenes manipulation of legitimate leaders, to mention just a few. The one potential issue- a calculated risk, you could say: Sauron. HIS power is permanently diminished by the loss of the One Ring, and now he's just a disembodied bad mood wandering the earth. But if Saruman set his essence into another ring, there's a chance Sauron finds it and claims it. And with that, does he get that part of Saruman's power, enough to reform? Wouldn't be the Dark Lord of old, but enough to "be around" again, and this time use his cunning instead of his might? But that's a small chance, as Saruman would know where his ring is, and Sauron doesn't even know it exists.
I always read it as Sauron was labeled "The Necromancer" not because he could summon an army of undead, but believe it was because he would use a dead body as the host, to take his physical form. I still believe that.
The original meaning of the word necromancer was actually a spirit summoner and diviner. Someone who consulted spirits in order to tell fortunes and find lost objects and people. So back in antiquity, a necromancer was actually the good guy.
@@B3RyL There is evidence of that, but word meanings change over time, and I doubt the philologist Tolkien would use an archaic and long since unused meaning over the historic usage and understanding. When the word was Latinized, (necromantia) to the Old French (nigromantia) it meant "of the black magic". So, from Latin, to Old French, to Middle English, and finally English, it meant anyone who used or practiced "black magic" and Sauron fits that bill, unlike Gandalf who used its (theological dualist) understood antithesis. I find this all fascinating, but I still believe Sauron would use a dead body as the host, to take his physical form (a black magic) hence why a "necromancer". But all speculation on the reader's preference.
Where in the text does he ever inhabit a dead body? The ëala of Ainur don't require a hroa like the fëa of incarnate beings, but they can generate a physical form around the ëala if they choose. Sauron lost the ability to shape his body how he liked, but he was still capable of slowly regernating a physical body after his defeat to the Last Alliance.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again... you're character voice work is great Matt! It would be awesome if you got to do one for War of the Rohirim! Another masterful video. Thanks again 👍 🖖😁🤘🇨🇦
Hi man, I love your videos so much you probably won't see this but I have two questions just incase you have: 1 - Can you make a video on Dol Amroth? They are so cool and I really want to know more about the kingdom. Also, 2: for school I am doing a project on whatever I want and I chose "how men handle power in Tolkien's world" - could you give me suggestions on videos to watch on noble men who handled power well and those that were affected by having too much power? I picked this topic because I love the history of men and I also can watch your videos and call it productive!
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist." I can't help but think that was Sauron's intent going under the guise of "The Necromancer," he intentionally wanted everyone in Middle-Earth to think he was someone else like a Nazgul so that he could slowly regain his power to where once he felt the moment was right, he would strike and truly reveal himself.
I have a question. When Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli go through the paths of the dead they come across a body in front of a closed door like it was trying to break it down and died trying Later Aragorn refers to the scene when he speaks to the oath breakers that 'We are not interested in your secrets. The door is shut the way is closed. I will speak to the oath breakers!' Who is dead before the Door? What is behind the Door? There is a tale that needs telling
Are you referring to the gold-clad knight? If so, that is Baldor the Hapless, son of King Brego of Rohan. I cover that take in my Rohan history vid: ruclips.net/video/EcS1g-tsHyo/видео.htmlsi=haRdS9ipc6f1Iayx
Sir Micheal: We must avenge my slain brother. Who's with me? Paladin: I'll bring my sword! Dwarf: ...and I'll bring my axe! Elf: ...and I'll bring my bow! Necromancer: ...and I'll bring your brother.
I have often wonder how Thrain could have been the prisoner of the Necromancer and kept the map and key (or any personal possessions of any sort) secret.
Thanks so much for watching & please hit that SUBSCRIBE button! We're inching ever closer to that 1M sub mark - which will call for a livestream of special magnificence (and some nice giveaways!)
Can you tell me what is that flute song at 3:30? 😮
Do Elrond's sons
Done good sir.
The art work in your videos is off such a great style and mood absolutely brilliant content. So much joy from this channel.
Please check out my comment on the one ring made on a lathe that actually glows via led!
It was a misunderstanding. Sauron was giving people hickies in Mirkwood, so he was actually a neck romancer.
Very informative episode.
I mean…at one point during the first age, he *did* take the form of a Vampire.
You scumbag...! Now everytime he says it, I hear it your way! 🙉
GONE💀
A true romantic. He always tried to put a ring on it.
@@SnakeAndTurtleQigong🤣
"Necromancer"
1. Practices divination by summoning spirits of the dead? Confirmed.
2. Practices the darkest of magics with the evilest of intentions? Confirmed.
3. Summons and/or creates minions who should by rights be dead, but who are infused with unnatural life? Confirmed.
Yeah, Sauron can fulfill any and all definitions of Necromancer. The alias is well-chosen, in my opinion.
I don't know, the Diablo II Necromancers are a subversion against Ex. 2.
Good call. Confirmed.
agreed.
Easy to forget it’s THOUSANDS of years between some of these events.. would be like finding out today that the creepy dude in the forest is actually some long forgotten Egyptian pharaoh / Gandalf is the only Egyptologist who could piece it together😳
The "evil wizard in the woods is actually a Pharaoh" sounds like a story from a pulp magazine like Weird Tales.
@@thesinfultictac5704na. That was the plot of Moon Knight.
@repentandbelieveinJesusChrist8 of all places to find a Bible bot, would not be on a LoTR video or so I thought
@repentandbelieveinJesusChrist8not repenting to someone who doesn't exist. Go preach elsewhere, shadow wizard.
This is an actually a really good point and way of putting it.
"The power of Oaths"
There's a reason, I hear, that Elrond explicitly mentioned that the Fellowship of the Ring should NOT be oathed to Frodo, but instead accompany on their own free will. The man knew exactly how terrible an Oath can be because of Feanor.
This is such a great point! Makes me love Elrond even more!
@@NerdoftheRings agreed!
The oaths some people have taken are the chains which shackle us all. Thank you for a great post. LotR is Metaphor&History
Yeah, Fëanor is kind of a dick.
Not to mention that the One Ring was a tool of binding, of establishing power over others. It was already dangerous for anyone to be in close proximity to the Ring. I imagine swearing oaths to its bearer would be like inviting a fox into a hen house.
When clicking on this video I knew exactly that I basically know all there is to know about Sauron. But just the sheer quality of these videos are so good that I enjoy watching them even though I wouldn't learn anything new.
It's incredible how large how varied Sauron figured throughout the history of Middle Earth. How many forms he had, and how many schemes and empires - and yet had no dialogue in the main work, and only a few scenes of dialogue in the whole cannon. He's basically the Devil. Behind every plot, constantly scheming throughout all history in all kinds of places, yet unknown and always in the shadows
One of the Best Characters Tolkien Created!!
Always a good watch. You are slowly convincing me to read more from Tolkien
You need an acknowledgment. I’ll give it.
@@andrewjames7438 Think I'm just lazy. Thank you though.
What I learned is that Sauron is very patient and can wait for things for a very long time.
Sauron is an immortal being
Of course he can wait a long time
A hundred years feels like a day for an immortal
The Dark Lord from Tolkien description are always this patient entities. It bores into Tolkien mind that the Dark Lord Morgoth and Sauron are his perception from big time industry businessmen. Most people do not know that there's a lot of things from Tolkien world that are related to our world. The author's love of green hills from Sarehole, central Birmingham that made him inspired to create The Shire. Sauron long arduous task in sustaining his weapons of war is a reminiscence of Tolkien harrowing days as a soldier in trenches from WW1. And Saruman wreak havoc over the Old Forest and The Shire is a testament of Tolkien views over industrialization taking much over England as he saw.
I've always wondered what the "make a new body" process is like. Not just in Tolkien, it's pretty common for otherworldly bad guys in lots of fiction. Like, is it this slow, more ethereal and spiritual process, or do they have to literally will and cultivate a new body over decades. Just a fleshy mound for a few decades that finally starts to take form...?
@@ZiggyMandarr
Either they grow their body from zero, beginning as a baby and waiting until it matures or they slowly form the body out of ethereal magic.
I love how u just jump right into ur title topic! Makes me happy to see every new episode u come out with and i listen whether i already know what you are going to go over or not! Thanks man or women who are behind this channel! All the background ppl as well! A good channel becomes great when you have a team and the insight and creative thinking you exhibit! TY
I imagine he would carry a harmless good looking form to convince Elves, Men, and Dwarves that he was a good guy; not just being cliché, having a handsome face with a sly, evil smirk to say “yeah, I look evil but you’re gonna listen to me anyway”
Correction: "Yeah, I look evil, but you're gonna listen to me because I am hot as Hell!"
Meanwhile at half the sons of Faenor:
Well the writers of the show on prime, made him gorgeous! Maybe you have something there
Sauron's fairest form, "Annatar, Lord of Gifts", was indeed supposed to be a physically beautiful, Elvish/Human-looking male being but, due to his far larger size (probably roughly the size of a troll), and also by his explicit references to the Blessed Realm and his clearly having been there, Sauron was presenting himself by implication as a "good" Maiar who had simply never been encountered by the Elves before. However, to the wisest & most perceptive Elves such as Elrond, 1.) Annatar was clearly not all that he seemed and 2.) Annatar looked fair, but felt disturbingly somehow wrong.
Sauron was a master of transformation. Taking many different forms throughout his existence. Though no doubt deceiving & malevolent. He could also walk completely invisible within this world, the one ring was imbued with that inherent power of his. Anyone who put it on would enter the world of spirits, invisible to mortal eyes, yet corrupted.
This was really informative and the artwork really brought the text to life! I enjoyed it so much. Thank you
I am very sick today, your lord of the Rings lore videos are like chicken soup and ginger ale
I hope you get to feeling better!
Sugar and grain only make you more ill. How immature. What are you? 6?
Haha, came here to say something similar.
You okay? You didn't die did you? I hope not. ❤
You're a child, and weak.
I've mentioned it before that I think your character voices are fantastic. Hearing your Gandalf in this video made me realize that not only are they fantastic, but they are *consistent* as well. Very tough to do! Thanks for being awesome 😎
There is so much to discuss about Sauron and for good reason….. he is one of the greatest villains ever conceived!
Thats also where amazon lost me. How could Sauron be so boring 😢😅
@@r.j.6093 yeah poor man aragorn aka halbrand was not it 😪
Don't forget about the dead marshes where it seems souls are lingering there
Necromancer is just a healer who doesn’t give up.
Edda?
@@renkyrie Had to web-search that one up. Sorry, I don’t play MMOs; in case you meant the FFXIV character.
Necromancy + Soul Binding is just DIY resurrecting
Necromancer is a healer with a law degree
I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned that the ring itself can expand someones lifespan by hundreds of years like it did Gollum. And that had saurons own power put into it even if it wasnt intentional.
Though i wonder if that only happens because of how mortals are affected by a Maia's power or because it was saurons specific dark magic that causes it. Because if its the latter, extending lifespan is some form of necromancy even if it isnt as grand or flashy as summoning the dead
Never thought about that ngl, I mean Gollum is basically a “zombie” to the ring, but way more than just figurative lmao
Sauron not only crafted the rings with great magics, but he infused the one with much of his own spirit and power. It has its own power as well as enhancing the user with the power of sauron himself.
Sauron's original pitch to the elves of Eregion was that his gifts could aid in the elvish desire to 'preserve' things. He fashioned the great Rings of Power partly to ensnare the elves through this desire. Mortals were never ment to wield any of these rings. In the hands of a mortal, it 'stretches' out the life of its user. This is a supremely unnatural occurance as it is against the plan of Eru as expressed in the music of the Ainar. Given enough time, all mortals that wield the rings will be drawn out of the mortal plane and into the shadow realm as wraiths.
@@Uncle_Fred
In a way that makes they undead, which I guess is why Sauron is called the Necromancer.
Your knowledge of Tolkien's universe is just mindblowing! Great video! Awesome artwork! Love shorter videos too 👍
I wonder how Sauron reacted when he found out his ring was so close to him and being actively used during the events of The Hobbit and he never noticed XD
I'm sure he had Orcs skimming the river for centuries to try to find the Ring but had assumed it got washed out into the sea. The Ring didn't "awaken" until LOTR. Maybe when Gollum was captured, that was the first time Sauron knew the Ring wasn't lost in the sea.
@@Paulafan5 Btw, why did it take so long for the Ring to awaken?
@@HomoSerenus3 not an expert but I think it didn't "feel" Sauron either. He had to grow to a certain level of power for it to sense him. Which took time.
@@jensendkmg7209 I see, thanks!
@@jensendkmg7209 that and the power the ring has is relative to the person wielding it, gollum probably made the ring weaker just by virtue of being the one to use it during that time.
I am reminded of Isaiah 8:19-20. Why consult the dead on behalf of the living. The comment 11:50-12:20 is truthful.
In the LOTR, it’s also a reminder why the domination of others is a wicked act and is different from a divine right to rule.
Addition. Though in the scriptures, the “dead” were demons rather than the undead themselves but the point is true nevertheless.
One of the coolest topics within the Third Age -lore! As a small kid, I remember thinking how cool it is that there's actually another 'dark lord' -type of threat within the verse, and within such cool location on the map, to boot.
Only to understand later on that they were one and the same all along!
Love the visuals, they go so well with the narration. This channel is an A+ experience.
Of course the vampire is a neck romancer
“Neck Romancer” I like it
Very well done
😅😅😅
Delicious pun sir
Lololololol!
The original usage of the word necromancy in real history was for the practice of summoning the dead and demons for the purpose of gaining knowledge and treasures, and was seen and practiced as a sort od "reverse exorcism." So, it was practiced by priests in private, but was mostly frowned upon by the wider church.
I love how well-timed and written the closed captioning is; many thanks!
“Sauron the Necrophiliac is beyond any of us”
Gandalf the White
Lone survivor of the Dunburrow Turnover
Also, "The Necromancer" is just an incredibly cool name for a villain.
the fact he controls the wraiths + orks which are both essentially dead men and dead elves twisted by darkness you could say he was a necromancer to a degree.
Orcs are indeed the result of Melkor (Morgoth) having captured, tortured, twisted, and transformed Elves until he had bred into existence the lines of Orcs... but Orcs are NOT dead. They are living creatures-and need food & water & shelter etc to exist.
Water, shelter and meat back on the menu* @@Gilliganfrog
I said it before but LOTR truly is the best Christian fan fiction to ever been written, one can see the how Tolkien applied his faith in this epic of good and evil, I mean Sauron straight up can not create just corrupt just like the devil, he’s a trickster, charmer, crafts men. A man striving to be like god and thus in doing so becoming pure evil… I’m not even Christian but I still love it, subtle and one would never think about this just through watching or reading the material.
5:02 "Sauron peeking over the edge" just makes me think of Sauron as that one Russel Crowe gif in Les Miserables
The Necromancer was originally a mortal sorcerer of unexplained origin as I recall from old editions of The Hobbit.
Yes! Someone who tried to dabble in the magic of the unseen world. I love how Tolkien managed to create all these small stories and interesting ideas and tie it all together.
define mortal
He was originally just a man who could do magic and was evil and otherwise unexplained. @@Hannibill
@@miaththered
Unexplained at all.
@@Hannibillsomeone who can die of old age
Am I just lucky? Here I am at the return of one of my special mini conventions “Librari-Con”, and I’m dressed up as the lord Sauron as a Sith Lord. Then lo and behold this pops up. I love watching my man Sauron go to work!
As a normie, and what many eould call a "casual" Tolkein enthusiast; I alwaus imagined Sauron's nickname of Necromamcer coming from the fact that he had bound his soul to The One Ring and become disembodied when he lost it. Then, using his sorcery, or necromancy to gradually rebuild hos strength and physical form. Thus resurrecting himself and gaining a mastery over souls and being dubbed a Necromancer.
Great video.
A practitioner of the art of Necromanstabation
A necromancer would be someone like the bad dude in Lovecraft's The Case of Charles Dexter Ward. I did not think why Sauron should be called one until later that he had control of Ringwraiths and the Barrow Wights. You made a very nice, thoughtful dissertation here, Thanks
I love all of your videos! you offer carefully-crafted explanations that get straight to the point while giving us further insight into the story. I'd love to see a video dedicated to other Maiar such as Melian, Arien, Ossë, etc.
An etymological linguistic analysis of “Necromancer” would simply have it mean something like:
“A practitioner of deadly, harmful, corrupting magical powers.”
Necromancer = “One who practices Necromancy”
Necromancy = “Necro+Mancy”
Necro = “Dead(ly)/Harmful/Corrupt
Mancy = “Magical control of or related to a specific element, substance, or theme.”
The suffix "-mancy" does mean what you describe today, but historically it specifically refered to magic as divination or soothsaying. A necromancer would have been someone who communes with the dead (think Ouija board or seances), though Tolkien's necromancer as a bodyless Sauron or Nazgul is more like a dead entity communicating with the world of the living.
The book The Fall of Númenor says: "Sauron, however, inherited the 'corruption' of Arda." In HoME-Morgoth's Ring, it is mentioned that everything in Arda, including spiritual beings, is tainted to a certain extent by Melkor's will. In this context, Sauron's use of these spiritual beings for his own purposes forms the basis of his Necromancer character. This character of Sauron was valid even before Melkor was banished. This character structure is also functional in terms of providing the soul for the metaphysical existence of the orcs for the sustainability of the orc population.
I kinds wish the Necromancer was a seperate character from Sauron albeit connected to him or getting power from him.
My issue with this, then, isn't the question of "did Sauron hold any power, or sway, over the dead", so much as we're led to believe that, at least for a time, the Wise weren't aware that "the Necromancer" WAS Sauron. If they had known the weakened Dark Lord was there, they might've taken greater risks to disembody him, again, and lengthen the time before he could truly rise to prominence. Since they believed that this being was more judt some mortal sorcerer, or at worst a Nazgul, it's weird to me that theyvaccepted this man, whomever he was could do such potent dark magic.
So, a silly question; how was Dol Guldur created? We get that Orcs snuck in, and eventually built the place, but how dod SO MANY enter the forest, without the Elves of Thranduil retaliating? There must have been a window of time before the site was readyvto host the Necromancer, when he wasnt there, and it seems weird that such massive, loud construction could occur without the Elves hraring of it, or refusing too intervene. If there wasnt a convenient network of tunnels, the Orcs would have had to stride across open land, and bring food, or strip the forest, which should have alerted the Elves to them, who wouldn't want such as permanent neighbors. It makes me wish we had seen some other people who could use lesser magic, or maybe Alchemy, or Artifice, that served Sauron, and could give the Orcs the edge to fight the Elves on their own turf, and while trying to build the intimidating fortress. Oh well.
My question is how Sauron managed to be across the street from Galadriel for 1500 years and SHE didn't notice either, appatently
Dol Guldur was built by elves who later abandoned it when Sauron's evil presence took over that part of Mirkwood. Galadriel obviously knew there was something evil in Mirkwood but she and the other elves stayed in Lorien because it was protected from orcs and other evil by her ring. One reason why the wise waited to kick Sauron out of Dol Guldur until the dwarves and Bilbo were doing their thing at the Lonely Mountain was so that Smaug and Sauron wouldn't be able to help each other.
One of the most notable myths regarding necromancy was where Othinn of Nordic Mythologie desired knowledge of Ragnarok and ended up using Necromancy to commune with the dead to divine the future. The act itself was a horrid thing, and yet Othinn sought to know the future to protect humanity as best he could from it against the Jotunnr or so goes the myths.
The Norse had the best myths and tales, and Tolkien borrowed extensively from them and was honestly able to write stories that were their equal. Always loved that Sauron was called the Necromancer.
My understanding the entire time was that Sauron basically was calling to his service the wraiths who were dead and buried like the witch king. So his necromancy was mainly due to that.
This information may be non canonical, but in The Hobbit game published in 2003, in the game chapter Flies and Spiders, in about the middle of the level you will encounter undead enemies and a boss that are supposedly servants of the necromancer. Now, they never actually encountered undead in The Hobbit (book), but it does show that even a minor game stayed rather close to the lore....unlike Rings of Power.
In "The Hobbit", the Necromancer only really serves as an excuse for Gandalf to disappear for much of the story. At the start of the story, Bilbo is essentially a child. The quest allows him to grow into an adult - something he would not have been able to do if Gandalf was around all the time.
Gandalf didn't know that the Necromancer was Sauron during the time of "The Hobbit" - at least not in the earlier version. If he had, it would make no sense for him not to make the connection between Bilbo finding the Ring and the reappearance of Sauron.
Why did Gandalf protect the Nazgûl? Anytime anyone suggests destroying one or all, he says that the Ringwraiths are “beyond” their capabilities, yet it was stated clearly that Frodo alone could have killed the Witch King using Sting.
Maybe "Necromancy" in Tolkien's context meant "Death-Magic". A plague that kills hundreds of thousands, conjuring dark beasts, werewolves, and vampires all which prey on mortals. Maybe the purpose was to cause mass-death, or being in control of the flow of death.
it's interesting to think sauron as the necromancer could just hang out in mirkwood for so long. like, nobody thought to deal with the necromancer in all that time
They did try a few times, and even managed to make him flee.
But Sauron is one of strongest beings of Middle Earth so those who tried (before Gandalf and co.) would be dead at best.
In addition, Saruman actively interfered with any plan to investigate Mirkwood.
Necromancers aren't as easy to deal with as you might think
he was propably vanishing at this point
Who could co something about the necromancer? Only Gandalf, Elrond, and Galadriel had the power as well as the will (not sure when Glorfindel returned), and the later two were busy protecting their own realms.
As always, splendid NOTR💯
I really love you videos, thank you for all the time and effort you invested in them! Fun sidenote: during almost every single video of yours I come to think: omg there is so much amazing background lore the rings of power could immediately adapt to improve. And each time I know full well it's folly to expect such things happening ;)
For example the entire part of souls being trapped due to them refusing the call as they are somehow "tainted" or maybe carry some kind of guilt could in my opinion be easily adapted into the motivational arch of Sauron. Perhaps in Saurons view they are just as much part of the world as the living? And he can offer them a role in it - unlike it is the case within the existing order? I think it's much more fun to fiddle with existing ideas in the lotr universe than making up Mithril stories that could just as well be part of tof any exchangeable universe.
I think it is clear that Sauron had great power over beings who were dead or at least not alive in the conventional sense. The Nazgûl alone demonstrate that and when you add in all the others examples and discussions that NOTR provided, I think it is a slam dunk.
Sauron is a necromancer by definition, not alternate, he used the one ring to escape death and remained alive and separated from a physical form. Even that manipulation would fall under the realm of necromancy cause it was preventing his death, giving him a form of unlife/undeath, so I say yes, he was a necromancer through and through in all the ways we know today.
That's not necromancy, and even if it was he wouldn't be a necromancer by the technical definition anyways, because he doesn't divine
Except he was immortal himself. He’s separating his power from himself and the Ring thus making it bound to an artefact and not his body.
Sauron didn't make The One Ring "to escape death", because although his physical form can be killed (as happened at least twice in the history of Middle Earth), his powerful supernatural spirit could NOT be killed. He made The Ring to transform & amplify his intrinsic power-and in fact, creating The Ring made him MORE vulnerable, in one sense: he embedded SO MUCH of his power into The Ring that, if it WAS destroyed, then he would be destroyed.
@@owenjames8575in a way he's like a lich, which would definitely fall under necromancy. The ring is his phylactery.
for me, a necromancer is the one from Diablo 2.
damn, i love that character.
I like the GW interpretation with the Castellans of Dol Guldur, essentially "mini Nazgul" like warriors created by Sauron in Dol Guldur, probably former Woodmen who were captured in Mirkwood and turned into undead spirits in service of the Necromancer
Early congrats on 1M subscribers. I found your channel about a year ago in the lead-up to TRoP and have genuinely enjoyed every video since. Thank you for your hard work!
The simplest explanation still applies, which is that sauron was in hiding and the people of middle earth did not know or understand who he was or what he was doing and they slightly mislabeled him as a "Necromancer" to scare others away from him. Just like how people used to be accused of witchcraft when they weren't actual witches.
Also remember those fell spirits housed in the Watcher Statues. He didn't summon skeletons or zombies, but he could bind spirits where he needed them.
the art in the video is amazing. kudos to whoever did it
These videos ALWAYS give me chills (depending on the topic). Especially the What if Galadriel took the ring video. I would love to see more What ifs.
Awesome man best channel out for tolkien fans past present and future!!!
Explicitly the wraiths are necromancy. Promise to mortals of living forever then being enslaved. The nine are essentially undead spirits who serve him unquestioning and hunt his enemies. Which is necromancy.
Apparently Tolkien had no plan for LOTR, but the connection of the idea of a necromancer in the Hobbit and the wraiths of Sauron in LOTR is pretty obvious.
W POST always hyped for a new vid on Sauron
so Sauron is an under appreciated bad*ss villain that anyone would be proud to even have a similar character in their lore
6:50 Can I just say how much I love that official art of Sauron? I know everyone love that towering spiky black knight armor, but that picture really spells out Sauron's menace as the shadow over the lands that his armored form doesn't convey.
I think an important piece is who gave the name of necromancer and subsequently who referred to him as such. Its not like Sauron dubbed himself that it would seem (or if he did it would likely be for purposes of deception).
I missed this video until now, it's a very good summing up, really. It's been more than twenty years since I posted a quote from the "Laws And Customs Among The Elder" section of 'Morgoth's Ring' making this connection with my small suggestion that it may explain why Sauron was called the Necromancer. The post in question was when I was so called "special guest" on Cliff Broadway's old "Green Books" section of the original TORN website when Jackson's film were still in production. Glad, finally, to get some concurrence! The quote was item number 15 from my contribution entitled "Tolkien's Greatest sleepers:
Very cool. My only quibble would be "creating werewolves" etc & it is simply a quibble. Creation was reserved for Eru Ilúvatar but it is clear what you meant.
I feel bad, very sympathetic, to the elves who did not move on. I wish there would have been some way to cleanse them. But, ss explained, they became twisted.
Tolkien could have easily written The Hobbit without crafting such a detailed world behind the scenes, but then he would not have had the material to write The Lord of the Rings! Goes to show how true passion is rewarded.
All good stories (should) begin by first building the world. Then many stories come out easier.
He had already written most of the Silmarillion before either though
And then Amazon pissed it all away in the name of equality.
It was actually the reverse. He created the world first (and the Silmarillion) and wrote the Hobbit later on, which was initially unrelated but later adapted into the world he had already created. But the Silmarillion was only published much later after the Hobbit and then the Lord of the Rings became popular.
@@MerkhVisionso basically he kept it on the back burner just for good measures.
One of the most fascinating beings in Tolkien. He values order more than his boss did, which sort of makes him an opposite extreme. He's a parasite, as compared to Morgoth who simply overwhelmed everyone and everything who wasn't extremely powerful. The dead don't have much in the way of defense against such a leech. Speaks to how trifling he is.
This is the first time I've watched, & I have to say: "Good Job!" It's concise , well spoken, & nice photo content. Looking forward to more.
During the 1st and 2nd age, how much territory did the high elves own of what is now the reunited kingdom? I’m playing third age total war and I’d like to make a lore accurate high elven kingdom that reflects the elves territory at the height of their power. Thanks in advance😊
Interested etymology:
In classical Latin, it was "necromantia" with necro meaning death, but in the medieval period it was written as some variation of "nigromauncy," with nigro suggesting "black" rather than death
The way Gandalf just hits them with the mind your business whenever anyone asks him why he was in an extremely dangerous and strange scenario.
Always watch until I hear "and Debby"! Amazing video as always!
So there’s an old book and I can’t remember what its called but it had various art inspired by Tolkien’s Mythology and one was called “The Necromancer” it was just a figure in obscuring black robes in a dark room in front of a brazier of some kind. That’s “Sauron the Necromancer” to me…
If it was spelled "neckromancer," he could have been a vampire.
Excellent episode! Ive always been fascinated by the Necromancer since i read the Hobbit as a kid.
Re: Tolkein’s dead, un-dead, quasi-dead, and necromancy: it isn’t like Voudoun. It isn’t, except that the Groos Bon Ange[l] can animate a body devoid of will or deep thought and the [pe]Tí[t] Bon Ange[l] is the special personality part: that’s the part Tolkien would have called back the the Source. Tolkien was a British subject, and he studied Norse mythology partly because plenty of other scholars had the Greco-Roman world (and to an extent, German stuff) already studied over generations, and he wanted to to something -scholarship- that had been paid less attention to. What if he’d been born American ? Maybe he would’ve studied the esoteric myths brought by black-folks to North & South America and the Caribbean ? Zora Neal Huston: I love her because she’s such a great writer: it isn’t just because she studied Haiti for a while… it’s those two great things together: excellent “authoring” coupled with excellent scholarship: ZNH had both, and so did JRRT 🤔
I think Sauron could still be the more common understanding of necromancer if you believe that orcs (either all or just some) are made from corpses.
Very good episode!! Helped to clear up some long held questions!
I would include much of what Sauron did in Numenor in the necromancy category, particularly once he had free reign to hold his disturbing ceremonies in the tower. Tolkien insinuates there was all sorts of things going on, from human sacrifice to torture and more.
3:13: I bet a lot of Hobbit readers thought the same, hence why the sequel The Lord of the Rings came to be.
Really smart retcon work, I'll say. Brings into mind certain plot points involving Brainiac and Terry McGinnis in the DC Animated Universe.
Another fantastic video! These descriptions of Sauron remind me of how Mumm-Ra is portrayed in Thundercats, but I'm probably just being a Cats fanboy. 🤣🤣
I would love to hear more about the power of oaths
@Nerdoftherings.on.telegra is it a present
If you are master of Ring Wraiths and places like Minas Morgul, then, in my book, you fully deserve the title of Necromancer. In the full AD&D sense of the word! 😱
Can't get better than AD&D
I think a simpler explanaition is that Tolkein never bothered to define what exactly Sauron was up to in the Hobbit.
The Necromancer was a throwaway character, off stage and mainly a reason for Gandalf to leave the party. Only later did Tolkein retcon him to be Sauron when tying the two stories together. What fiddling with the dead he was doing in the Hobbit got lost in the shuffle.
Thank you @NerdoftheRings! I for one - have read Tolkien books back in the late 70's early 80's. Here and in other videos you note: "The History of Middle Earth: Volume 10" - and other works, but I was wondering if you could list all the books that are considered 'canon' please? Cause I only know of The Hobbit, LotR, The Silmarilion, Book of Lost Tales in reference to the universe that is Middle Earth.
I saw your Video of the New Shadow. I personally allways thought that had it been written it was Tolkiens intent to have Saruman as the new Dark Lord. In the LOTR Gandalf talks about how Saruman most deeply studied the lore of the Rings and how they were made. Then when he tells the story of his entrapment by Saruman at Isengard to the council in Imladres he describes Saruman on the steps of the Tower and says " He had a Ring on his Finger". He mentions Sarumans Ring once more after that . I believe his intent was to make it that Sarumans spirit like Saurons after his first defeat fled to waste places until he began to grow again . I think his intent was that Saruman wiuld do the same and return and take up his own ring again ( although probably less powerful) . I think it was Sarumans Ring that gave him the power over the Orcs in his service so 5hat they weren't drawn to Saurons service and his power over the Dunlanders as well.
That's a very intriguing observation! As a Maia, Saruman wouldn't be 'slain' as he apparently was, in the Scouring of the Shire. And it's interesting to note that he was significantly weaker there, merely capable of a few mean acts (as Tolkien worded it), when several years before he was capable of imprisoning Gandalf the Gray, and resisting the Nazgul less than a year before.
If he used ringcraft to transfer and enhance his power, and then set it away for whatever reason, it would explain why he had diminished so greatly. And give him a few hundred years or more to reform (as it seemed to take Sauron when he suffered such events), let him reclaim his own Ring, and I'd say he comes back to about the power level he was while in Isengard.
And conveniently enough for him, when he rose again Aragorn would have passed away, and Gandalf and most of the Elves (at the very least the last of the Noldor) would have gone over the sea. This would leave him with just Men to deal with, something he was more than capable of.
@@scoobysnacker1999 That was part of my theory as well , that Saruman had put away his ring as Sauron had done when he went to Numenor as Ar-Pharazons hostage only to come back to retrieve it once Numenor was destroyed. I think he was hiding it because he knew Gandalf and the Noldor would all be leaving after Sauron was destroyed .
@@jameshatfield2473 A smart play on his part, if so; the ultimate tactical retreat. Even with his ring, he's unable to contend with Gandalf the White, so he fakes his death and waits until the coast is clear.
And it's interesting to consider this; it's completely canon that Maia don't actually die. And the stuff he did, the "devilry" he devised- very much what Men embraced. Gunpowder and behind the scenes manipulation of legitimate leaders, to mention just a few.
The one potential issue- a calculated risk, you could say: Sauron. HIS power is permanently diminished by the loss of the One Ring, and now he's just a disembodied bad mood wandering the earth. But if Saruman set his essence into another ring, there's a chance Sauron finds it and claims it. And with that, does he get that part of Saruman's power, enough to reform? Wouldn't be the Dark Lord of old, but enough to "be around" again, and this time use his cunning instead of his might?
But that's a small chance, as Saruman would know where his ring is, and Sauron doesn't even know it exists.
I always read it as Sauron was labeled "The Necromancer" not because he could summon an army of undead, but believe it was because he would use a dead body as the host, to take his physical form. I still believe that.
The original meaning of the word necromancer was actually a spirit summoner and diviner. Someone who consulted spirits in order to tell fortunes and find lost objects and people. So back in antiquity, a necromancer was actually the good guy.
@@B3RyL There is evidence of that, but word meanings change over time, and I doubt the philologist Tolkien would use an archaic and long since unused meaning over the historic usage and understanding. When the word was Latinized, (necromantia) to the Old French (nigromantia) it meant "of the black magic". So, from Latin, to Old French, to Middle English, and finally English, it meant anyone who used or practiced "black magic" and Sauron fits that bill, unlike Gandalf who used its (theological dualist) understood antithesis. I find this all fascinating, but I still believe Sauron would use a dead body as the host, to take his physical form (a black magic) hence why a "necromancer". But all speculation on the reader's preference.
It just means black magic.
Where in the text does he ever inhabit a dead body? The ëala of Ainur don't require a hroa like the fëa of incarnate beings, but they can generate a physical form around the ëala if they choose. Sauron lost the ability to shape his body how he liked, but he was still capable of slowly regernating a physical body after his defeat to the Last Alliance.
@@evolving_dore Darmok and Gilad at Tenagra. His eyes closed.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again... you're character voice work is great Matt! It would be awesome if you got to do one for War of the Rohirim! Another masterful video. Thanks again 👍 🖖😁🤘🇨🇦
Nice work dude thanks
Man your voice is perfectly made for middle Earth lore👍
Hi man, I love your videos so much you probably won't see this but I have two questions just incase you have: 1 - Can you make a video on Dol Amroth? They are so cool and I really want to know more about the kingdom. Also, 2: for school I am doing a project on whatever I want and I chose "how men handle power in Tolkien's world" - could you give me suggestions on videos to watch on noble men who handled power well and those that were affected by having too much power? I picked this topic because I love the history of men and I also can watch your videos and call it productive!
I love this channel ❤
Thank you!! Great video❤
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."
I can't help but think that was Sauron's intent going under the guise of "The Necromancer," he intentionally wanted everyone in Middle-Earth to think he was someone else like a Nazgul so that he could slowly regain his power to where once he felt the moment was right, he would strike and truly reveal himself.
I have a question.
When Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli go through the paths of the dead they come across a body in front of a closed door like it was trying to break it down and died trying
Later Aragorn refers to the scene when he speaks to the oath breakers that 'We are not interested in your secrets. The door is shut the way is closed. I will speak to the oath breakers!'
Who is dead before the Door?
What is behind the Door?
There is a tale that needs telling
Are you referring to the gold-clad knight? If so, that is Baldor the Hapless, son of King Brego of Rohan. I cover that take in my Rohan history vid: ruclips.net/video/EcS1g-tsHyo/видео.htmlsi=haRdS9ipc6f1Iayx
It's almost 2am, but I gotta listen to this before I go to sleep.
Good to see something a little different. Good luck with the squeak
Sir Micheal: We must avenge my slain brother. Who's with me?
Paladin: I'll bring my sword!
Dwarf: ...and I'll bring my axe!
Elf: ...and I'll bring my bow!
Necromancer: ...and I'll bring your brother.
I have often wonder how Thrain could have been the prisoner of the Necromancer and kept the map and key (or any personal possessions of any sort) secret.
He hid the map and key in his safe with combination only he alone knows.