I've only read the lotr books and watched the movies. I have no knowledge of anything aside from those but I thoroughly enjoy learning about the lore from this channel. It's like an entire world to be discovered. Thanks for telling these stories so that people like me can understand but going in depth enough that it keeps my interest.
Had he been captured earlier, say about the time he was sandwiched in the War of the Elves and Sauron, it is unlikely he would have been nearly as successful. Up until that point Númenor had remained wise and humble, treating the Men of Middle-earth with compassion rather than holding them in contempt as their inferiors*. They sought to pass on everything they had learned in their time in Beleriand and centuries developing in isolation. In a way, they were doing the Valar’s job for them. Once they adopted the mentality that the lengthened lifespan, greatly increased height, and knowledge granted to them made other Men lesser to them, they also started to believe themselves inferior to Elves by design, and thus began an insatiable desire for immortality. That change in perception is reflected in a complete 180 of Númenor’s foreign policy goals. Without all of these changes taking place, surely they would have been nigh incorruptible? *Yes I know the Gwaithurum are the glaring exception. Ironic since even the Haradrim were treated better until the end.
@HiddenLeafShinobi I think he means the Chinese government. The truth is, the West brought itself down by putting most of its manufacturing eggs into one foreign basket.
There is a recurring theme in Tolkien's works that those who are esteemed the "mightiest and greatest" of their people often bring only ruin to their people through their pride. Melkor Feanor Turin The Numenoreans Saruman And yet it is often those who are ignored, those deemed 'weak' or 'insignificant', who truly step up and become the greatest heroes of all.
thats true...and i talked too much on twitter to influence mighty and powerful so they can fall harder by manipulation, among themselves they always have a mouth of a serpent to take advantage of them
If anyone was wondering: The Dúnedain of Arnor and Gondor weren't just those on board the nine ships of Elendil. There were many others of the Faithful who fled Númenor in the centuries before Ar-Pharazôn's rule to escape persecution. They settled in Eriador and in the future core lands of Gondor, especially in Pelargir.
thanks. i was wondering how 9 ships could fill two entire kingdoms and make them populous enough to stand bitter onslaughts for centuries.. That would mean 9 super tanker sized ships stacked full of people, mostly women pregnant by triplets or something LOL Middle earth already containing vast amounts of faithful numenoreans would make 'some' more sense
@@Kira-zy2ro Well, probably not vast amounts. I'm not sure if anyone knows the exact numbers, but my estimate would be that a maximum of 10,000-20,000 Dúnedain lived in later Gondor and not more than a few thousand in Eriador. The ships of the refugees were certainly packed with people and we know that the Númenorians did build enormous ships, so I guess that at least a few hundred people (perhaps 900-1,000?) escaped the destruction of Númenor, perhaps more. I think we have to imagine the treasure ships of Zheng He here as an equivalent to the númenorian ships. The combined strength of Gondor and Arnor was big enough to win a bloody long war against Sauron, but according to Tolkien, the losses of the war and the final massacre were enough to cripple the númenorian population of Arnor permanently. The northern realm was in decline ever since, until only a few hundred (?) Dúnedain remained at the end of the third age. Eriador hadn't been settled by large numbers of númenorian colonists like Gondor, so that would explain why Gondor prevailed while Arnor was crippled so easily.
Yes, but what happened to them? How did they cease to be? I'm not new to LoTr, but I'm not versed in that particular part of the lore. We know Aragorn is more or less the last of that race, and with his death Numenoreans become history, if not outright myth. So.. what happened? Anyone who knows - please tell us.
@@stankobarabata2406 Isildur’s death at the Disaster at the Gladden fields depleted the North’s Dunédain population. Arnor the kingdom eventually split into 3 petty kingdoms because the 10th King’s 3 sons could not get along. These 3 kingdoms drained their population fighting each other until the Witch-King of Angmar converted 1 petty kingdom (by then most of the Dunédain in that kingdom were supplanted with Dunlendings) and destroyed the other 2. That’s why Aragorn lived his life as a Ranger in the wilds instead of as a prince. Also this is why there are so few Dunédain in the North. In Gondor one of the Kings married a Rhovanion (ancestors to the Rohirrim) and their mixed blood son Eldacar was viewed as lesser to the Dunédain so his Cousin Castamir the Usurper rebelled and took the throne. Eldacar fled to his mother’s people and with their help they took back the throne and killed Castamir and his followers. This entire conflict was called the kin-strife and it resulted in many Dunédain’s killed and many extended royal family members to renounce their claims and marry into other noble families. Finally Sauron sent a Great Plague that severely depopulated Gondor and Arnor’s population numbers.
It's amazing that even with the One Ring, Sauron was unable to defeat the Numenoreans militarily. And yet where the swords had failed, the wicked tongue prevailed. Funny how other prominent villains possessed the same evil ability to enchant you with their talk - Grima, Saruman and Glaurung. (If I remember correctly, Dragons in general were reported to be masterful manipulators, hence Grima's nickname "Wormtongue"). Even Morgoth fooled the Valar on more than one occasion. A lesson for all of us to heed: beware of wolves in sheep's clothing, thriving on your fears and feeding you what you want to hear.
@@imaginemyshock8067 Every day I realize just how much people hate the truth because it makes them uncomfortable. Or more specifically, they've been told so much that the truth is inconvenient that they reject it.
@@deagor4578 I'm talking about how false sense of superiority is often fueled by nationalism and religious fanaticism. How it can leave common sense, human decency, care for fellow men and even scientific empirical evidence far in the rear-view mirror. How foreign bad actors can find useful idiots to do their dirty work for them and lead an empire to the brink of collapse.
@JayPrakash-th4rd Since it didn't exist during his time, you can't really make that claim, can you? Plus, there are those who use social media to actually broaden their understanding of different cultures and ideas. Information that would have been extremely hard, if not impossible to obtain in his time without a proper education, can be had by almost anyone now with a computer or smarthpone and the internet. I agree that we have more distractions than ever, and the larger commercial influence of social media consists of spam advertising, cheap copies, gas lighting, devisive garbage, and misinformation. More people living in this time have the potential to obtain the knowledge, but they lack the dedication and will power complete anything. This is the lost era without focus. Everyone is kind of drifting and grasping at straws post covid. Everyone's definition of what was and what will be has come into question in these uncertain times of massive change. If nothing else. Just take solace in the fact that you're living through the most exciting times in human history, where greed had a child with progress and birthed our own obsolescence one feature or app at a time. This all started with industrialization and the fall of the skilled laborer and craftsmen. The factories were the Walmarts and Amazons of their day. Doing things cheaper, faster, and on a larger scale to put the small businesses out of business. Someone on an assembly line can learn to do only one task. This allows them to learn quickly while getting paid less. They would also be incapable of ever becoming future competition since they only know a single step of the process. A nice built-in control mechanism and failsafe that allowed for abuse of the workers. Things are the same today, just more complex. A complex B.S. facade. Complex in a dishonest way, not a smart way. When mental gymnastics are needed to understand exactly how an everyday object works, how the legal system works, how credit works, how college debt works, how inflation works, how banks work, how news works, how the govement works. This is not by accident . . . This favors the ones who wish to abuse power with impunity. What you don't know can't hurt them.They are control mechanisms. Ignorance in your prey is a good fail-safe in a preditory system. People are way too content in their own ignorance. Most people don't understand how wifi, the internet, or smartphones work. We are more like apes with toys who are getting more and more emotionally and mentally fragile while unlearning how to be patient or think for ourselves. We are becoming dependent on things that can die if the sun burps . . . It's pathetic.
@@ericryckman1559 The biggest untold problem with social media is that it made the internet boring, what happened to times where you can just find new and unique websites constantly? nowadays people visit 5 sites (if that) and think that that is everything the internet can offer. The greatest bit of technology humanity has achieved so far and it is used for """social""" media, so much potential squandered just like that. I am advocating for people to make their own websites instead of using social media. And another thing with current day internet: it is incredibly unoptimized. You would think computers would get faster overtime but paradoxically it stays the same or even gets *slower* , because of the improvement of hardware you can get away with making shitty software and now the internet is filled with slow/broken sites because site developers these days are lazy. Hell, half the time i use youtube it is a completly broken and unusable mess. I honestly wish i could just travel back in time to the 80's/90's and expirience the golden days of tech and don't have to deal with current day garbage, i don't care if i miss out on A.I. or the cure of cancer or whatever.
Sauron’s lies were utterly terrifying. His promises and claims were huge, and yet still his words were convincing. His deceit of Numenor was his greatest work, and Sauron must have had fun while it lasted.
Mate, I‘ve been a Tolkien fan for over 30 years and your videos rank among the finest content ever produced regarding Tolkien lore. Your work is much appreciated!
Here here! Over 40 years fan as well. I've read about half of the histories, and when I was a kid, I even picked up things like "The Smith of Wooten Major" and "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight" (this was before there was a "fantasy" section in the bookstores!). These are amazingly detailed and thorough videos. It's like watching The History Channel for Middle Earth, except back when the History Channel did actual history. ;)
I can see why the black Numenoreans turned against the Valar. Imagine living alongside elvs that were immortal, invited to live in Valinor while men had to face death from time and not only prohibited to travel to Valinor in life, but not rebodied after death to live in Valinor. Such can easily be seen as unfair. Unfortunately, anger makes manipulation to darkness easy.
@@theyoten1613 You forgot the part where men live with Eru forever in peace when they die, but the elves are doomed to die with this world and be dead forever.
To me the funniest thing is that the Valar had no better idea than to put the island of Númenor closer to Valinor (where it was forbidden to go) than to Middle-earth (where it was allowed). No wonder the Numenoreans were so confused!
What I find interesting, if you look at the lineage of Aragorn, Elrond is basically a great great great x 30 uncle or something. Somewhere in Elros and Elronds line married a Maiar I believe, and Elros, his brother chose to be immortal and married a human and then founded Numenor. Elendil, descendant of Elros, was part of the Faithful on Numenor and with his son Isildur, travel to M.E. and after a few generations eventually formed the Dunedain of Arnor. So Aragorn is essentially a human descended from the elves and Maiar (yes, the physical gods of Middle Earth, aka, Gandalf and Saruman among others) all mixed together. Aragorn is a descendant of both Gandalf and Elros while being mostly human.
@@3DMasterST they were spirits or lesser gods created to help the Vala. They were not quite as powerful as the Vala but still a God in their own right especially compared to normal men.
@@border8204 Aragorn is certainly a descendant of Elros , but NOT Gandalf . The maia from whom he is descended is Melian , a maia of Yavanna , where Gandalf is associated with Manwé and is no relation of Aragorn's
The portrait of Sauron at 11:53 are probably what I'd consider the best portrailal of Sauron and the shape I'd imagine he'd take as his disguise. Not only is it a very friendly face, but the mannerism carries a lot of trustworthy wisdom with it as well. A good disguise if deciet is your aim.
Of all of Tolkien's stories, Akallabeth has always resonated with me the most. The tale of the immense good and evil that Men are capable of, and what happens when we abandon God, morality, and wisdom for self-gratification and power, is one that resonates throughout the course of our history and future.
I agree. The story of Numenor's grandeur and downfall had struck a serious nerve in me, and in Akallabeth, you can read almost all of the story in its entirety. I always have revered the Elves of Valinor, the First Born and the Valar. But the glory of Mankind, even as mere mortals with the Gift of Men, also shone brilliantly during Arda's Second Age.
The numenors we're a great people with magnificent and beautifully inspiring qualities bravery, loyalty, the arts, knowledge , wisdom, deep understanding, sailing the seas and a yearning and taste for adventures would of loved to see them in their glory days , if I was the king of numenor I would try to expand our ships by building colonies rich in timber wood to build port cities to thrive on the main land and other Islands within rich to colonize and encourage population growth however need to, to keep us growing even making sure to have large wagon train caravans going to get goods trading going to supply my colonies and so forth lol 😎
@@iamcalledcleb Eru allowed Sauron to whisper lies into the leadership of Numenor for centuries. At no point did he whisper the truth into Ar-Pharazon's other ear. At no point did he send a warning to the people of Numenor that this was the wrong path. At no point did he even _attempt_ to stop Morgoth's dark influence from wrapping around the hearts of Men. The Numenoreans were children reaching for the pot of boiling water on the stove. The parent watched but did not move. Only when the pot had fallen, and the child was drenched in boiling water, and began screaming for help, did the parent step forward. Yet all the parent did was reach out a hand to slap the child hard across the face, then walk away. Whether it's Eru in Tolkien mythology or God in Christian mythology, Arnold is right. God *did* abandon us first. He left us to fend for ourselves in a world full of suffering.
Deeemn. Elendil saw his homeland destroyed. And a hundred years later, he faced the mastermind of his homeland's destruction. And he died fighting it. Truly a giga chad.
Bilbo Baggins is my favorite of Tolkien’s characters, but Númenor is my favorite part of the Tolkien world. I’m incredibly excited to see what happens in the new series, and I hope that they do justice to this most exciting and intriguing of Tolkien’s eras of Middle Earth.
@Adora Belle Dearheart Not to sound like a mindlessly consumer, I love the integrity of Tolkien's universe and will criticize inconsistency, however if battle scenes go woosh with the old style of special effects from the original trilogy, prob watch dat shit.
I love how the story of Numenor is quite relatable for our own world (much like all Tolkien, really). Even the great may fall if their hearts fail and that those who serve darkness and evil are ever enemies of Truth and Order. And that greatness does not come with power but wisdom (Melkor vs Manwe), in that you can either serve ''Order'' by relinquishing lordship in humility in servitute to the Light and be uplifted (history of Aule), or cause ''Chaos'' and mar all that is Good done by others by thinking yourself as King of all and be defeated(Melkor), is woven into the story with many well written characters. True wisdom for those who are willing to see.
I recall to have read somewhere that Tolkien himself didn´t really intend to mirror the Atlantis myth with Numenor, but upon discovering that one of his alternate names for Numenor after the Drowning was Atalante was very pleasantly surprised and chose to keep it that way, very much aware of the connection :D
@@weisthor0815 I wish it wasn't but we've only really got Platos word for it, and he was telling a story that was already thousands of years old, assuming he didn't just make it up.
I see Númenor. I click. I am so glad you’ve finally made this! Reading it in the Silmarillion (well one of the Epilogues) was great but I’m excited to see it in a video 😁
It's certainly a highlighted overview - as I mention in the vid, there will be more to come as we dive into specific stories. But I think it is cool to see the full picture of Numenor from start to finish in a single vid. The promise of their rise, and the slow and steady trend into their downfall.
@@NerdoftheRings that’s what made Númenor my favorite culture to learn about was their (relatively) short golden age and how swiftly they fell when Sauron found a loophole to persuade them.
It’s so mind bogglingly epic in every sense of the world and scale…that one man simply thought of all this, and coherently put it on paper. Just beautiful, so indescribably beautiful. ☺️
I think the best part of Sauron's manipulation is simple yet flawlessly executed by Tolkien. He wasn't entirely lying when he said immortality was being purposefully kept out of the reach of man, nor that the Valar feared them. He just never specified why and instead fed the people lies about Morgoth being their savior. In the end, Sauron had a master class in manipulation and knowing how to play on people's fears, jealousy and greed in ways that would have made his master proud.
There is explained wisely why iluvatar made humans mortality It is actually some kind of gift Because immortality exhauted elves,they saw rise and downfall,they became very sad and they were always missing old glory days And humans dont have enough time to see rise and fall of their kingdoms so its better
The story of Numenor also reflects the real world's mankind history. We may rise above all else for the greater good, or fall in to darkness and never again reach the heights of our glory. It's both a warning and an enlightening plot. We men can do so many great things. Brilliant things. But we also can be easily corrupted and fall from grace. Numenor's story in Akallabeth was one of my favourite in Tolkien Lore. It struck a serious nerve in me.
As I am re-reading The Silmarillion with some friends, your videos sure help us out with several chapters. Keep up with the lovely content ❤
2 месяца назад
Since I was six years old (today I'm 59), I've been dreaming of our Atlantis, which J.R.R. used as a model for his Numenor. The incredible magnitude of their successes, their kindness, their warmth, overcome by greed, the will to rule broken and destroyed by excessiveness, it is the same story, the same dream. When I read the Lord of the Rings, the Hobbit and the Simarillion at the age of 14, Plato may have been a great one of his time, but Tollkin was a storyteller , and today my dream, which still appears and its story merged into one And I always have to be careful not to confuse them But your rendition, friend, moved me to tears. I thank you from the bottom of my heart. Namarie.
Always loved the idea that the Meneltarma might still be out there. Waves could roll over Numenor, as they did... but then recede and leave its highest point above the waters. So although no one ever found it, it's still fun to think that somewhere out there is a small island that was once the top of the highest mountain in Numenor.
@@halleck3 Yeah, high enough or important enough. I don't think the burial site of Turin was particularly high... I like to think that it was preserved as an island by the will of Eru when the world was re-made at the end of the First Age. Perhaps as a small sign of respect for the wretched suffering the children of Hurin suffered at the hands of Morgoth.
The story of Númenor was really touching to me since I first read. The fine threads that connecting the flat Arda to the round real world, with the sunken island, Atalante... The Silmarillion mostly like legends of a different world, but the Akallabeth sounds as the missing part of Plato's Critias.
Matt, could you do a video on Tar-Palantir. He is a fascinating character, wedged between some unrighteous kings. You can also give us more detail about The Three Prayers ceremonies that he reinstated. He must have represented a minority of his people and had strong opposition through out his reign.
Unbelievably complex! I have to keep reminding myself that this is a work of fiction. The details inherent within every age or generation - it is like real history. WOW!
@@ThatSexyNerdReacts eehh yeah. the middle earth games are still kinda wishy washy when it comes to being considered canon. I think there's some contradictions in the lore of the games. I'm not completely sure tho
I've always been fascinated by Numenor. Such a powerful force for good, both in actuality and it's potential, corrupted and decayed. Defeating post-ring Sauron by force, twice, is quite a feat. It makes me think of the US in ways: this mighty force that springs up out of nowhere, defeats the Nazis and Japanese (obviously not alone), and eventually decays and becomes corrupted. Though, to avoid starting a political discussion, what that means I leave up to whoever reads this. It's not important anyway, I believe many would agree with the basic premise.
Thank you! You did such a great job in this! Particularly when Sauron deceived Ar-Pharazon. It's quite bone chilling. I had to re-watch it several times. Tolkien really understood evil, power, fear and how to communicate it in story/poetic form.
Thanks so much! It's kind of just a matter of picking topics I feel like covering on a given week. I've been holding off on Numenor until a week where I had a bit for free time because I knew it would take a while. lol. Glad you've been enjoying these past few weeks especially well!
I'm not sure which is sadder, the fall of Numenor or the fall of Gondolin. Also, if it hasn't been said yet, I'd love a video on the ruling Queens of Numenor. I feel Tar Miriel could have turned things around if she had been ruler.
Definitely! I’ve got that on my to-do list, to do a video on the Queens. It’s interesting that Numenor got a family ruling after so much evil that tried to turn them back to the light. Just too little, too late I guess.
@@therealelderking5830 I dunno... if she was in charge, they'd have destroyed Sauron's armies and either imprisoned him or ask the Valar to take him. She would be smart enough to not listen to Sauron's honeyed words. This would allow the Kingdom of Numenor to continue, and as long as she taught her child right, the next couple king/queens could continue rehabbing the Numenorian rep with the Valar, eventually the Kings Men could've died out....
@@KS-xk2so Perhaps, but bear in mind that Miriel was the rightful queen, and she still got her throne stolen under her nose. I doubt Pharazon could have done that without substantial support and power. Even if Miriel sat on the throne and booted Sauron, the King’s Men would not just die out. They would either force Miriel to continue on the path of darkness or just straight up overthrow her.
It's a pity that this beautiful island was sunk by the valars. It is also the numenorians fault that sank their homeland. We always appreciate your hard work and dedication towards these videos.
Just a thank you from a casual fan. You make me appreciate the intricacies of the original story. As opposed to the recent series that just confuses me and leaves me uninterested.
This is quality content on RUclips. It seems like you always see to the details, combining excellent art and music with inspiring story-telling. And it all just fits together in a beautiful way. Great job! I really enjoyed this video.
Earlier this year, I read Tolkien’s unfinished tales. He developed a greater narrative of Tar-Aldarion in that book, and at length his marriage with Arendis is not a happy one. She begrudges him his longing for the sea, not knowing that all the while he has been developing a close friendship with Gil-galad and making preparations for the return of Sauron; that is a majority of the reason for his numerous and extensive sea voyages. An unhappy marriage is the result of all this and Arendis does all she can to try and shield their daughter from his influence and men in general. But after inheriting the kingdom, Aldarion changes the law so that his daughter will be able to become the ruling queen. In a way, this is out of spite toward his wife, who did not want this for their daughter.
I've watched about 10 videos of yours so far, and I am by no means invested in the lotr universe. The content is presented so engagingly and the actual lore is surprisingly deep and very interesting. Well done my friend
I found this video after watching the Amazon Ring of Power series and I thought the show was bad but now I believe the show is incredibly horrendous. Why is it so hard for them to stick to the original lore? Why do they feel the need to change things for the worst?
You have a very engaging voice, and give life to Tolkien's writings in the spirit of which they were written. You retell a tale a wash with time in such a way that 19 minutes feels like five.
"They towered over the tallest orc, and the reach of their swords and spears far outmatched that of their enemy" a paraphrased quote from the description of numenorean soldiers fighting in the last alliance.
These illustrations of Numenor using the Atlantis style for clothing and stuff is so cool, the connection is so obvious but it's such a great way to underline it !
Nice video! I am always sad when I hear about Númenor. These men are descendants of the FA Edain which valiantly fought against Melkor side by side with Eldar. These men were great even without privileges and gifts which were given to Númenoreans. And when I see how 90% of their late SA descendants fall under the shadow, it really makes me sad. I am looking forward to your video about Aldarion.
Just as small additions to this excellent video: Sauron probably had the ring with him in Númenor and his spirit was - according to Tolkien - able to retrieve the One Ring and bring it with him to Mordor. And Sauron deceived Ar-Pharazon in more than one way: The Undying Lands aren't called this way cause they grant its inhabitants immortality - it's the other way around: Cause only Valar and Elves live(d) there, they were called this way. This meant, Ar-Pharazon and the other Númenorians never had the chance to receive immortality, cause Eru gave them the gift of mortality.
Valar to Edain: Thanks for the help. Here's an island where you can become great. Edain to Valar: Sweet! 3000 years later Valar to Edain: We know you helped the elves defeat Sauron, one of our own, and he tricked you, but this isn't really working out so we're destroying you completely. Edain to Valar: Wait, what? Even Melkor got a do-over.
I always did feel like the Valar overreacted to Ar-Pharazon's invasion. Why not let him find out for himself that the Undying Lands don't actually grant immortality? When the king died of old age anyway, it would have been clear that Sauron was lying all along. Also, if the Valar can just call up Illuvatar whenever they want to have him open a huge chasm in the ocean floor, and even change the very shape of the world while he's at it, why didn't they use that tactic against Morgoth during the War of Wrath? Which raises the intriguing possibility of: Did they try that, and did Illuvatar refuse?
Well they did not decide to ruin Numenor .They asked Eru to decide as they werent able to choose what they should do . God s will decided on Numenor and if you consider the fact that Eru has pretty much made it clear that death is not a terrible end but the gift of humans , he pretty much healed them all . The therapy included terminating their experience in Ea and only Eru knows what lies after death but it is clear that it is out of mercy that Numenor got extinguished .
@@davidlundquist1979 The Valar feared the atrocities that the disappointed satan worshiping Numenorians would commit . Malevolent acts taint the very air and land and only running waters may remain untainted by such acts .This is in Tolkien as was in all ancient civilizations . The Valar were also unable to act decisively for they were dealing with humans and thus the most beloved children of Illuvatar , who were acting as insane lunatics by rejecting the Gift of Illuvatar , death . One has also to note that being used to immortal sentient beings the changes of numenor really confused them - here were the descendants of the most honorable humans ,the children of Eru and they had to respond to their madness .They dont have the right to decide for them yet they must act .They also have no idea what death means for humans . Eru acts for only He can decide on the issue , since only He knows everything .
@@davidlundquist1979 The only time to Valar call upon him appears to be when they have no idea what they’re doing. Which was not the case prior to the War of Wrath, they merely did not see fit to aid the struggle they saw as the Noldor’s (who all bore the sins of the First Kinslaying despite not all taking part because they went to help the kinslayers). As for Ar-Pharazon, there was little else they could do. They could not harm the Children of Illuvatar, but by allowing him to continue they’d let the High Elves get in harm’s way.
@@davidlundquist1979 The Valar themselves could have stamped the Numenorean's flat at the outset. They'd dragged Morgoth, a Vala himself, back to prison then later cast him into outer darkness. I think it was a moment of uncertainty on the Valar's part....here are men...the greatest men of the age, the second children, mounting an invasion? Seriously? Manwe simply handed the issue over to God Almighty who made a quick, clean, precise, simple decision that ended the matter long before the invasion could have done real harm.
I can't believe how VAST, the realm that Tolkien channeled is.... He was a true Mystical person, he was a true medium who could see, with his mind's eye, glimpses of the other world... the world of the Elemental ones, Nymphs, Elves and Fairies... he was a most blessed Man by Heaven, that great Sir... Tolkien
I've always wondered.. If Tar-Míriel was one of the faithful and with that probably secret ally/friend to Isildur and his sons, why didn't she leave the Númenor with them? Tragic... :( Great video, Nerd! Always enjoying topics about Númenor :).
Very well done video. I can already tell this will be the first of many I will be watching from this channel.
2 года назад+8
This just destroyed my views of Amazon s Rings of Power... Its a completetly different take . I guess it s more consumer friedly that way. Great Job by the way. I loved this video
Echos of the fall of Atlantis in this tale. According to legend the infamous continent of Atlantis was mostly destroyed 850,000 years ago with the last large island being destroyed 12,000 yrs ago. It was this last remnant of a once glorious realm that Plato refers to in his account of its final destruction.
I can recall the first time, when I heard that the Black Numenorians were practicing human sacrifices. I was horrified to learn they strayed away from Manwe. Great story again Matt!👍👍
I have been trying to recreate Numenor in Maya for years now. I want to make an immersive, lore based, game where you can explore all of Numenor and experience it's stories. A detailed look at the cities and the areas around them (the 5 different points of the star shaped island) What a character might feeling while out over Numenor from a high vista point. The information I've found is vague at best.
You may want to take inspiration from artwork or a mix of High Elven architecture with Gondorian architecture, as we know the latter is descended from the Númenórean style which in turn was heavily influenced by the former.
This is the best channel on RUclips! The attention to detail and the effort you put in is astonishing. Tolkeins world is incredible and you do such a brilliant job of explaining every detail. Thanks for your work 👍🏻 Who composes the music that you use in your videos?
re - 12:20 Errr... Sauron was actually kinda truthful when speaking to Ar-Pharazon. I mean, the men of Numenor DID become mightier than the Valar, such that in their peril, they called Eru to deal with their revolt. The only thing Sauron lied about was in convincing men that Eru was imaginary.
@@Diogolindir In 'Letters' Tolkien mentions that the Valar call down the guardianship of Eru (upon the invading Numenoreans) because- and I quote- _"Their peril is real."_
@@Raz.C Could be read as "their" peril...(the Numenoreans, facing off against demi gods) is real. Yes, the invading force could have done great damage to Aman but lets face it, the Valar had dragged one of their own, TWICE from Middle earth after defeating his forces. No, the Valar could have flattened the Numenoreans flat on their invasion. They didn't because men were favored by Eru, and because the situation was without precedent. They left it to the old man, who quickly and cleanly excised the infection.
@@michaelfisher7170 I might agree with your reasoning, if (1) I weren't quoting Tolkien directly and (2) the Valar hadn't relied on the armies of the Vanyar and Teleri to finally overthrown Morgoth (end of 1st age). It was- if I recall correctly- one of Tolkien's letters in which he states that following Ar-Pharazon's invasion of Valinor, the Valar were in "real peril." Sauron, though he was of the same species as the Valar, was nevertheless defeated in physical battle and his body was killed/ destroyed in the battle of the Last Alliance. After his body was killed, he still lived on, but was no longer able to physically interact with the world (until his spirit grew strong enough, 3000 years later, to be able to exert his influence directly on physical beings). It's possible that he was on the verge of producing a new body, but it would seem that being killed, the way Sauron was killed (by Gil Galad and Elendil) served to lengthen the re-embodiment process. The reason I bring this up is because I expect this is what Tolkien was referring to when he states that the Valar were in "real peril" from the armies of Numenor. The physical bodies of the Valar were physical bodies and subject to physical laws and so, could be killed. If the Valar had all been killed in battle against the invading Numenorians and even if it only took a single year for them to be re-embodied (which apparently it doesn't. If Sauron's case is typical, it might well have taken them thousands of years), then it STILL would have been too little, too late for them to be able to do anything at all to hinder Ar-Pharazon and his armies from claiming Valinor. Who knows, if they HAD claimed Valinor, perhaps Sauron may have travelled there to free Morgoth? How much worse would THAT have been? Ps: Gandalf's death was a different case. It's clear that he was resurrected, rather than re-embodied. It's clear because his fea was sent back to the same body, rather than waiting to create a new body and then travelling back to middle earth from Valinor in it. I believe (though I could be wrong) that this is the only case of resurrection (Beren and Luthien MIGHT be another, I'm not certain). Every other case involves an immortal Fea being re-embodied, a process which appears to take thousands of years, if at all.
Most of the artwork shown in this video is sublime, and although they did a good job to represent Numenor on the show, these illustrations transmit a higher degree of mastery and sophistication.
YES FINALLY!!!!!! Been waiting for a vid on Numenor since I discovered your channel and there will be more you say. So excited. Numenor is the thing I'm most interested in. Thank you.
Tall ships and tall kings Three times three What brought they from the foundered land Over the flowing sea? Seven stars and seven stones And one white tree.
Actually, I have seen with my own eyes (on The Rings of Power) that Numenor consists of a small-scale, bigoted, Mediterranean-esque fishing village. This grand vision of Numenorean civilisation is way off the mark.
thats an 800 year (approx) warning/heads up from Gilgalad's plea for help to when Sauron actually invaded......wow No wonder Saurons forces had no chance against Numenor - First age war veteran Nation who were well rested and had AGES to prepare!
Eru granted them the long life, health and stature at the end of the first age due to their service in the fight against Morgoth. They were of the houses of the Edain. Almost completely wiped out by Morgoth in the war. The silmarillion is the book which covers these events. Enjoy.
Sauron (and by extension Morgoth) are the best written villain in literature. Always manipulating into the weaknesses and desires of men and elves. Playing to their greed and self-interest and corrupting it from within. The lies he says are believable as well, because there is some truth in them. The truth of discord with reality/Eru.
Which tales or characters from Numenor would you like to see featured in their own videos?
King Tar Aldarion
I would really like to see a video that goes into more details about the fall and the escape of the faithful if possible
How ironic the 13 King what do that
Ar-Pharazon the dick head, I mean the golden..
I've only read the lotr books and watched the movies. I have no knowledge of anything aside from those but I thoroughly enjoy learning about the lore from this channel. It's like an entire world to be discovered. Thanks for telling these stories so that people like me can understand but going in depth enough that it keeps my interest.
I think Numenor was Saurons greatest victory, he singlehandedly brought down the greatest kingdom of men ever purely thorugh manipulation.
Had he been captured earlier, say about the time he was sandwiched in the War of the Elves and Sauron, it is unlikely he would have been nearly as successful.
Up until that point Númenor had remained wise and humble, treating the Men of Middle-earth with compassion rather than holding them in contempt as their inferiors*. They sought to pass on everything they had learned in their time in Beleriand and centuries developing in isolation. In a way, they were doing the Valar’s job for them.
Once they adopted the mentality that the lengthened lifespan, greatly increased height, and knowledge granted to them made other Men lesser to them, they also started to believe themselves inferior to Elves by design, and thus began an insatiable desire for immortality.
That change in perception is reflected in a complete 180 of Númenor’s foreign policy goals. Without all of these changes taking place, surely they would have been nigh incorruptible?
*Yes I know the Gwaithurum are the glaring exception. Ironic since even the Haradrim were treated better until the end.
Not just men but of any kingdoms
He should have kept on doing the same thing to take down the middle-earth men, elves and dwarves. Rather than through military arms.
just like the CCP has done to the US
@HiddenLeafShinobi I think he means the Chinese government. The truth is, the West brought itself down by putting most of its manufacturing eggs into one foreign basket.
There is a recurring theme in Tolkien's works that those who are esteemed the "mightiest and greatest" of their people often bring only ruin to their people through their pride.
Melkor
Feanor
Turin
The Numenoreans
Saruman
And yet it is often those who are ignored, those deemed 'weak' or 'insignificant', who truly step up and become the greatest heroes of all.
Fair point... Turgon, as well.
Elwe Thingol
Indeed. Never underestimate the Quiet Ones. ^_^
thats true...and i talked too much on twitter to influence mighty and powerful so they can fall harder by manipulation, among themselves they always have a mouth of a serpent to take advantage of them
Turin the sigma antihero.. Túrin never had a choice
If anyone was wondering: The Dúnedain of Arnor and Gondor weren't just those on board the nine ships of Elendil. There were many others of the Faithful who fled Númenor in the centuries before Ar-Pharazôn's rule to escape persecution. They settled in Eriador and in the future core lands of Gondor, especially in Pelargir.
thanks. i was wondering how 9 ships could fill two entire kingdoms and make them populous enough to stand bitter onslaughts for centuries.. That would mean 9 super tanker sized ships stacked full of people, mostly women pregnant by triplets or something LOL
Middle earth already containing vast amounts of faithful numenoreans would make 'some' more sense
@@Kira-zy2ro 9 Noah's arks if you will...
@@Kira-zy2ro Well, probably not vast amounts. I'm not sure if anyone knows the exact numbers, but my estimate would be that a maximum of 10,000-20,000 Dúnedain lived in later Gondor and not more than a few thousand in Eriador. The ships of the refugees were certainly packed with people and we know that the Númenorians did build enormous ships, so I guess that at least a few hundred people (perhaps 900-1,000?) escaped the destruction of Númenor, perhaps more. I think we have to imagine the treasure ships of Zheng He here as an equivalent to the númenorian ships.
The combined strength of Gondor and Arnor was big enough to win a bloody long war against Sauron, but according to Tolkien, the losses of the war and the final massacre were enough to cripple the númenorian population of Arnor permanently. The northern realm was in decline ever since, until only a few hundred (?) Dúnedain remained at the end of the third age. Eriador hadn't been settled by large numbers of númenorian colonists like Gondor, so that would explain why Gondor prevailed while Arnor was crippled so easily.
Yes, but what happened to them? How did they cease to be? I'm not new to LoTr, but I'm not versed in that particular part of the lore. We know Aragorn is more or less the last of that race, and with his death Numenoreans become history, if not outright myth.
So.. what happened? Anyone who knows - please tell us.
@@stankobarabata2406 Isildur’s death at the Disaster at the Gladden fields depleted the North’s Dunédain population. Arnor the kingdom eventually split into 3 petty kingdoms because the 10th King’s 3 sons could not get along. These 3 kingdoms drained their population fighting each other until the Witch-King of Angmar converted 1 petty kingdom (by then most of the Dunédain in that kingdom were supplanted with Dunlendings) and destroyed the other 2. That’s why Aragorn lived his life as a Ranger in the wilds instead of as a prince. Also this is why there are so few Dunédain in the North. In Gondor one of the Kings married a Rhovanion (ancestors to the Rohirrim) and their mixed blood son Eldacar was viewed as lesser to the Dunédain so his Cousin Castamir the Usurper rebelled and took the throne. Eldacar fled to his mother’s people and with their help they took back the throne and killed Castamir and his followers. This entire conflict was called the kin-strife and it resulted in many Dunédain’s killed and many extended royal family members to renounce their claims and marry into other noble families. Finally Sauron sent a Great Plague that severely depopulated Gondor and Arnor’s population numbers.
It's amazing that even with the One Ring, Sauron was unable to defeat the Numenoreans militarily. And yet where the swords had failed, the wicked tongue prevailed. Funny how other prominent villains possessed the same evil ability to enchant you with their talk - Grima, Saruman and Glaurung. (If I remember correctly, Dragons in general were reported to be masterful manipulators, hence Grima's nickname "Wormtongue"). Even Morgoth fooled the Valar on more than one occasion.
A lesson for all of us to heed: beware of wolves in sheep's clothing, thriving on your fears and feeding you what you want to hear.
@@imaginemyshock8067 Indeed.
I agree. There's a lot of dishonest speech going around. So we all need to keep our wits about us.
@@imaginemyshock8067 Every day I realize just how much people hate the truth because it makes them uncomfortable. Or more specifically, they've been told so much that the truth is inconvenient that they reject it.
*Democrats
@@deagor4578 I'm talking about how false sense of superiority is often fueled by nationalism and religious fanaticism. How it can leave common sense, human decency, care for fellow men and even scientific empirical evidence far in the rear-view mirror. How foreign bad actors can find useful idiots to do their dirty work for them and lead an empire to the brink of collapse.
Tolkien had such a rich understanding of ancient history, various cultural origin stories, and the human condition that it's almost unbelievable.
@@JayPrakash-th4rd wasn't social media invented after his death so by your logic shouldn't everyone has his understanding of these topics
He is one of the time. So dedicated and love his work to the point where you invent a whole new fukcing language
@JayPrakash-th4rd Since it didn't exist during his time, you can't really make that claim, can you? Plus, there are those who use social media to actually broaden their understanding of different cultures and ideas. Information that would have been extremely hard, if not impossible to obtain in his time without a proper education, can be had by almost anyone now with a computer or smarthpone and the internet.
I agree that we have more distractions than ever, and the larger commercial influence of social media consists of spam advertising, cheap copies, gas lighting, devisive garbage, and misinformation. More people living in this time have the potential to obtain the knowledge, but they lack the dedication and will power complete anything. This is the lost era without focus. Everyone is kind of drifting and grasping at straws post covid. Everyone's definition of what was and what will be has come into question in these uncertain times of massive change.
If nothing else. Just take solace in the fact that you're living through the most exciting times in human history, where greed had a child with progress and birthed our own obsolescence one feature or app at a time. This all started with industrialization and the fall of the skilled laborer and craftsmen. The factories were the Walmarts and Amazons of their day. Doing things cheaper, faster, and on a larger scale to put the small businesses out of business. Someone on an assembly line can learn to do only one task. This allows them to learn quickly while getting paid less. They would also be incapable of ever becoming future competition since they only know a single step of the process. A nice built-in control mechanism and failsafe that allowed for abuse of the workers.
Things are the same today, just more complex. A complex B.S. facade. Complex in a dishonest way, not a smart way. When mental gymnastics are needed to understand exactly how an everyday object works, how the legal system works, how credit works, how college debt works, how inflation works, how banks work, how news works, how the govement works. This is not by accident . . . This favors the ones who wish to abuse power with impunity. What you don't know can't hurt them.They are control mechanisms. Ignorance in your prey is a good fail-safe in a preditory system. People are way too content in their own ignorance. Most people don't understand how wifi, the internet, or smartphones work. We are more like apes with toys who are getting more and more emotionally and mentally fragile while unlearning how to be patient or think for ourselves. We are becoming dependent on things that can die if the sun burps . . . It's pathetic.
@@ericryckman1559well said!
@@ericryckman1559
The biggest untold problem with social media is that it made the internet boring, what happened to times where you can just find new and unique websites constantly? nowadays people visit 5 sites (if that) and think that that is everything the internet can offer. The greatest bit of technology humanity has achieved so far and it is used for """social""" media, so much potential squandered just like that. I am advocating for people to make their own websites instead of using social media.
And another thing with current day internet: it is incredibly unoptimized. You would think computers would get faster overtime but paradoxically it stays the same or even gets *slower* , because of the improvement of hardware you can get away with making shitty software and now the internet is filled with slow/broken sites because site developers these days are lazy. Hell, half the time i use youtube it is a completly broken and unusable mess.
I honestly wish i could just travel back in time to the 80's/90's and expirience the golden days of tech and don't have to deal with current day garbage, i don't care if i miss out on A.I. or the cure of cancer or whatever.
Sauron’s lies were utterly terrifying. His promises and claims were huge, and yet still his words were convincing. His deceit of Numenor was his greatest work, and Sauron must have had fun while it lasted.
Mate, I‘ve been a Tolkien fan for over 30 years and your videos rank among the finest content ever produced regarding Tolkien lore. Your work is much appreciated!
Here here! Over 40 years fan as well. I've read about half of the histories, and when I was a kid, I even picked up things like "The Smith of Wooten Major" and "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight" (this was before there was a "fantasy" section in the bookstores!). These are amazingly detailed and thorough videos. It's like watching The History Channel for Middle Earth, except back when the History Channel did actual history. ;)
I can see why the black Numenoreans turned against the Valar. Imagine living alongside elvs that were immortal, invited to live in Valinor while men had to face death from time and not only prohibited to travel to Valinor in life, but not rebodied after death to live in Valinor. Such can easily be seen as unfair. Unfortunately, anger makes manipulation to darkness easy.
Esp when the men try to sail there and instead of being told no, they are all killed and their nation sunk into the ocean lol a bit drastic
@Adora Belle Dearheart Considering mortality a gift is the biggest cope of the entire Tolkien universe. Death is no one's friend.
@@theyoten1613 You forgot the part where men live with Eru forever in peace when they die, but the elves are doomed to die with this world and be dead forever.
To me the funniest thing is that the Valar had no better idea than to put the island of Númenor closer to Valinor (where it was forbidden to go) than to Middle-earth (where it was allowed). No wonder the Numenoreans were so confused!
@@Dingbobber Huh, pretty sure not. Don't the elves wait in the halls of Mandos for the remaking of the world ?
Ahhh the Glory that was Numenor.
My favorite Kingdom in all of Middle Earth.
Numenor isn’t part of the middle earth
@@saadsalman1650 🤓
Its crazy how Elrond's brother was the very first king and much much later came to look after Aragorn.
What I find interesting, if you look at the lineage of Aragorn, Elrond is basically a great great great x 30 uncle or something. Somewhere in Elros and Elronds line married a Maiar I believe, and Elros, his brother chose to be immortal and married a human and then founded Numenor. Elendil, descendant of Elros, was part of the Faithful on Numenor and with his son Isildur, travel to M.E. and after a few generations eventually formed the Dunedain of Arnor. So Aragorn is essentially a human descended from the elves and Maiar (yes, the physical gods of Middle Earth, aka, Gandalf and Saruman among others) all mixed together. Aragorn is a descendant of both Gandalf and Elros while being mostly human.
@@border8204 The Maiar weren't the gods of the Middle-earth but their servants, the gods were the Valar.
@@3DMasterST they were spirits or lesser gods created to help the Vala. They were not quite as powerful as the Vala but still a God in their own right especially compared to normal men.
@@border8204 Angels would be more appropriate analogy who too are gods when compared to mortal men.
@@border8204 Aragorn is certainly a descendant of Elros , but NOT Gandalf . The maia from whom he is descended is Melian , a maia of Yavanna , where Gandalf is associated with Manwé and is no relation of Aragorn's
This was better than the series.
Thanks for saving my time.
"ELENDIL! ELENDIL! FOR THE WEST!" Thanks brother! You re a champion!
Numenor: THE SEA IS ALWAYS RIGHT
The Sea: *sinks Numenor*
The Númenoreans were wrong this time
The portrait of Sauron at 11:53 are probably what I'd consider the best portrailal of Sauron and the shape I'd imagine he'd take as his disguise. Not only is it a very friendly face, but the mannerism carries a lot of trustworthy wisdom with it as well. A good disguise if deciet is your aim.
Not for me. Looks too much like Jafar lmao
@@kanegarvey848 But that´s Ar-Pharazôn.
I still think Amazon should have cast Henry Cavil as Sauron, especially after the passion for literature he showed during the Witcher series.
Dewolfe, I agree. Striking image of sauron
What did Frodo say....it would seem fairer but feel fouler..
Of all of Tolkien's stories, Akallabeth has always resonated with me the most. The tale of the immense good and evil that Men are capable of, and what happens when we abandon God, morality, and wisdom for self-gratification and power, is one that resonates throughout the course of our history and future.
I agree. The story of Numenor's grandeur and downfall had struck a serious nerve in me, and in Akallabeth, you can read almost all of the story in its entirety. I always have revered the Elves of Valinor, the First Born and the Valar. But the glory of Mankind, even as mere mortals with the Gift of Men, also shone brilliantly during Arda's Second Age.
The numenors we're a great people with magnificent and beautifully inspiring qualities bravery, loyalty, the arts, knowledge , wisdom, deep understanding, sailing the seas and a yearning and taste for adventures would of loved to see them in their glory days , if I was the king of numenor I would try to expand our ships by building colonies rich in timber wood to build port cities to thrive on the main land and other Islands within rich to colonize and encourage population growth however need to, to keep us growing even making sure to have large wagon train caravans going to get goods trading going to supply my colonies and so forth lol 😎
To be fair, god abandoned us first
@@arnoldpalmer3748 God has never abandoned us.
@@iamcalledcleb Eru allowed Sauron to whisper lies into the leadership of Numenor for centuries. At no point did he whisper the truth into Ar-Pharazon's other ear. At no point did he send a warning to the people of Numenor that this was the wrong path. At no point did he even _attempt_ to stop Morgoth's dark influence from wrapping around the hearts of Men.
The Numenoreans were children reaching for the pot of boiling water on the stove. The parent watched but did not move. Only when the pot had fallen, and the child was drenched in boiling water, and began screaming for help, did the parent step forward. Yet all the parent did was reach out a hand to slap the child hard across the face, then walk away.
Whether it's Eru in Tolkien mythology or God in Christian mythology, Arnold is right. God *did* abandon us first. He left us to fend for ourselves in a world full of suffering.
Deeemn. Elendil saw his homeland destroyed. And a hundred years later, he faced the mastermind of his homeland's destruction. And he died fighting it. Truly a giga chad.
I see Chad as a slur for gym bros, without culture or wisdom. He was a hero
9:23 Tiber Septim was so powerful, he was a king in two different universes.
I was hoping someone would mention that lol
Thank Kyne! I thought I was the only one who noticed!
Praise Talos!
What a chad!
Hahaha!! Nice one
Sauron’s dialogue is so fascinating I love listening to this.
Bilbo Baggins is my favorite of Tolkien’s characters, but Númenor is my favorite part of the Tolkien world. I’m incredibly excited to see what happens in the new series, and I hope that they do justice to this most exciting and intriguing of Tolkien’s eras of Middle Earth.
@Adora Belle Dearheart Not to sound like a mindlessly consumer, I love the integrity of Tolkien's universe and will criticize inconsistency, however if battle scenes go woosh with the old style of special effects from the original trilogy, prob watch dat shit.
Nope doesn't look good as of yet...and no seven footers thus far
@@or6144 That part them dudes is not 7'and way to old
😢 Sadly they didn't do it justice at all. What a waste.
Your wish was unfortunately not granted. Such a disappointment what Amazon did with Númenor
I love how the story of Numenor is quite relatable for our own world (much like all Tolkien, really). Even the great may fall if their hearts fail and that those who serve darkness and evil are ever enemies of Truth and Order. And that greatness does not come with power but wisdom (Melkor vs Manwe), in that you can either serve ''Order'' by relinquishing lordship in humility in servitute to the Light and be uplifted (history of Aule), or cause ''Chaos'' and mar all that is Good done by others by thinking yourself as King of all and be defeated(Melkor), is woven into the story with many well written characters. True wisdom for those who are willing to see.
Its cool that an alternative name for Numenor is Atalante, making the connection to the Atlantis myth more solid.
I recall to have read somewhere that Tolkien himself didn´t really intend to mirror the Atlantis myth with Numenor, but upon discovering that one of his alternate names for Numenor after the Drowning was Atalante was very pleasantly surprised and chose to keep it that way, very much aware of the connection :D
@@Nyteshift84 discovering? As author, how is that unintentional? (no offense, just curious)
@@maxxor-overworldhero6730 come on it was the 50s not the 18th century I'm sure he wouldve known a little about it
only that atlantis was not just a myth
@@weisthor0815 I wish it wasn't but we've only really got Platos word for it, and he was telling a story that was already thousands of years old, assuming he didn't just make it up.
I see Númenor. I click. I am so glad you’ve finally made this! Reading it in the Silmarillion (well one of the Epilogues) was great but I’m excited to see it in a video 😁
It's certainly a highlighted overview - as I mention in the vid, there will be more to come as we dive into specific stories. But I think it is cool to see the full picture of Numenor from start to finish in a single vid. The promise of their rise, and the slow and steady trend into their downfall.
@@NerdoftheRings that’s what made Númenor my favorite culture to learn about was their (relatively) short golden age and how swiftly they fell when Sauron found a loophole to persuade them.
Manwë learned the hard way about the human sense of entitlement.
@@TheCinderestBlockAround
3287 years is "short?"
@@Enerdhil relatively short compared to how long the world existed for
It’s so mind bogglingly epic in every sense of the world and scale…that one man simply thought of all this, and coherently put it on paper. Just beautiful, so indescribably beautiful. ☺️
I think the best part of Sauron's manipulation is simple yet flawlessly executed by Tolkien. He wasn't entirely lying when he said immortality was being purposefully kept out of the reach of man, nor that the Valar feared them. He just never specified why and instead fed the people lies about Morgoth being their savior. In the end, Sauron had a master class in manipulation and knowing how to play on people's fears, jealousy and greed in ways that would have made his master proud.
Akallabeth, one of my favorites chapter. Or as I like to call it "Why we can't have nice things"
There is explained wisely why iluvatar made humans mortality
It is actually some kind of gift
Because immortality exhauted elves,they saw rise and downfall,they became very sad and they were always missing old glory days
And humans dont have enough time to see rise and fall of their kingdoms so its better
I thought that was planned obsolescence.
Just watching this to see how bad Rings of Power screwed things up. Conclusion: pretty bad.
The story of Numenor also reflects the real world's mankind history. We may rise above all else for the greater good, or fall in to darkness and never again reach the heights of our glory. It's both a warning and an enlightening plot. We men can do so many great things. Brilliant things. But we also can be easily corrupted and fall from grace. Numenor's story in Akallabeth was one of my favourite in Tolkien Lore. It struck a serious nerve in me.
No it doesn't we made it to the stars in real life
I met your channel roughly a week ago and already watched all (almost) your videos. Amazing work! Greetings from Brazil.
Thanks so much! Glad you found the channel and have enjoyed diving in!
As I am re-reading The Silmarillion with some friends, your videos sure help us out with several chapters. Keep up with the lovely content ❤
Since I was six years old (today I'm 59), I've been dreaming of our Atlantis, which J.R.R. used as a model for his Numenor. The incredible magnitude of their successes, their kindness, their warmth, overcome by greed, the will to rule broken and destroyed by excessiveness, it is the same story, the same dream. When I read the Lord of the Rings, the Hobbit and the Simarillion at the age of 14, Plato may have been a great one of his time, but Tollkin was a storyteller , and today my dream, which still appears and its story merged into one And I always have to be careful not to confuse them But your rendition, friend, moved me to tears.
I thank you from the bottom of my heart. Namarie.
Always loved the idea that the Meneltarma might still be out there. Waves could roll over Numenor, as they did... but then recede and leave its highest point above the waters. So although no one ever found it, it's still fun to think that somewhere out there is a small island that was once the top of the highest mountain in Numenor.
Yeah, I always liked the idea of there being a few First Age landmarks still existing as islands out there, like Tol Morwen.
@@KS-xk2so Right? I mean, some of those places would've had to have survived, if they were high enough....
@@halleck3 Yeah, high enough or important enough. I don't think the burial site of Turin was particularly high... I like to think that it was preserved as an island by the will of Eru when the world was re-made at the end of the First Age. Perhaps as a small sign of respect for the wretched suffering the children of Hurin suffered at the hands of Morgoth.
Amazon don't seem to realise that Numenoreans are supposed to be the mightiest of men.
Yea. Such a missed opportunity.
Also it cost 1billion and yet I have been more amazed while watching the legendary journeys of Hercules with Kevin Sorbo🤣😵
tHe SeA iS aLwAyS RiGht
@@MrTerrorkiller eLf WoRkErS tAkInG yOuR tRaDeS
@@MrTerrorkiller You guys are just trolls the show is phenomenal even the LOTR wasn't 100% accurate with the books.
The story of Númenor was really touching to me since I first read. The fine threads that connecting the flat Arda to the round real world, with the sunken island, Atalante... The Silmarillion mostly like legends of a different world, but the Akallabeth sounds as the missing part of Plato's Critias.
Matt, could you do a video on Tar-Palantir. He is a fascinating character, wedged between some unrighteous kings. You can also give us more detail about The Three Prayers ceremonies that he reinstated. He must have represented a minority of his people and had strong opposition through out his reign.
Unbelievably complex! I have to keep reminding myself that this is a work of fiction. The details inherent within every age or generation - it is like real history. WOW!
Oh shit! I was wondering where a Númenor video was when I found this channel a few weeks ago, and now here it is. Good shit as always
Was Mordor always a land of darkness? Would be very interesting to hear the history of Mordor!
I’m also very curious about this. What’s the story of Mordor?
It began as Alberta
@@crhu319 no, it's Toronto
Well havent you played shadow of mordor lol
@@ThatSexyNerdReacts eehh yeah. the middle earth games are still kinda wishy washy when it comes to being considered canon. I think there's some contradictions in the lore of the games. I'm not completely sure tho
I've always been fascinated by Numenor. Such a powerful force for good, both in actuality and it's potential, corrupted and decayed.
Defeating post-ring Sauron by force, twice, is quite a feat. It makes me think of the US in ways: this mighty force that springs up out of nowhere, defeats the Nazis and Japanese (obviously not alone), and eventually decays and becomes corrupted. Though, to avoid starting a political discussion, what that means I leave up to whoever reads this. It's not important anyway, I believe many would agree with the basic premise.
what's it like being so boring
Yeahh…. No 😂😂😂😂😂
@@joseheredia7101 That was informative and well thought out. I agree with you, I was wrong for seeing any similarities.
Thank you! You did such a great job in this! Particularly when Sauron deceived Ar-Pharazon. It's quite bone chilling. I had to re-watch it several times. Tolkien really understood evil, power, fear and how to communicate it in story/poetic form.
You've been pushing out great videos these past few weeks. I think you've really hit your stride!
Thanks so much! It's kind of just a matter of picking topics I feel like covering on a given week. I've been holding off on Numenor until a week where I had a bit for free time because I knew it would take a while. lol. Glad you've been enjoying these past few weeks especially well!
I'm not sure which is sadder, the fall of Numenor or the fall of Gondolin.
Also, if it hasn't been said yet, I'd love a video on the ruling Queens of Numenor. I feel Tar Miriel could have turned things around if she had been ruler.
Definitely! I’ve got that on my to-do list, to do a video on the Queens. It’s interesting that Numenor got a family ruling after so much evil that tried to turn them back to the light. Just too little, too late I guess.
Yeah, I think she might have delayed the downfall, but I don’t think she could have turned it around completely.
@@therealelderking5830 I dunno... if she was in charge, they'd have destroyed Sauron's armies and either imprisoned him or ask the Valar to take him. She would be smart enough to not listen to Sauron's honeyed words. This would allow the Kingdom of Numenor to continue, and as long as she taught her child right, the next couple king/queens could continue rehabbing the Numenorian rep with the Valar, eventually the Kings Men could've died out....
@@KS-xk2so Perhaps, but bear in mind that Miriel was the rightful queen, and she still got her throne stolen under her nose. I doubt Pharazon could have done that without substantial support and power.
Even if Miriel sat on the throne and booted Sauron, the King’s Men would not just die out. They would either force Miriel to continue on the path of darkness or just straight up overthrow her.
I would be one of the King’s Men. The Island being so close to the undying lands is a big middle finger to Men.
It's a pity that this beautiful island was sunk by the valars. It is also the numenorians fault that sank their homeland. We always appreciate your hard work and dedication towards these videos.
Somebody else flooded their land but it’s their own fault… you’re a special kind of stupid.
Just a thank you from a casual fan. You make me appreciate the intricacies of the original story. As opposed to the recent series that just confuses me and leaves me uninterested.
This is quality content on RUclips. It seems like you always see to the details, combining excellent art and music with inspiring story-telling. And it all just fits together in a beautiful way. Great job! I really enjoyed this video.
Just wanted to stop by and appreciate ur informative and interesting content!
Thanks so much for watching and subscribing!
0:25 I’ve never seen before so clear the transition between maps of first and second age: Thank you very much for that 👏👏👏👏
Earlier this year, I read Tolkien’s unfinished tales. He developed a greater narrative of Tar-Aldarion in that book, and at length his marriage with Arendis is not a happy one. She begrudges him his longing for the sea, not knowing that all the while he has been developing a close friendship with Gil-galad and making preparations for the return of Sauron; that is a majority of the reason for his numerous and extensive sea voyages. An unhappy marriage is the result of all this and Arendis does all she can to try and shield their daughter from his influence and men in general. But after inheriting the kingdom, Aldarion changes the law so that his daughter will be able to become the ruling queen. In a way, this is out of spite toward his wife, who did not want this for their daughter.
I really enjoyed watching your videos as well as your voice overs. High-quality content and really enjoyable to watch. Thank you.
I've watched about 10 videos of yours so far, and I am by no means invested in the lotr universe. The content is presented so engagingly and the actual lore is surprisingly deep and very interesting. Well done my friend
Tolkien is just the G.O.A.T. Thanks for your great job.
I found this video after watching the Amazon Ring of Power series and I thought the show was bad but now I believe the show is incredibly horrendous. Why is it so hard for them to stick to the original lore? Why do they feel the need to change things for the worst?
They didn’t acquire the correct rights to truly stick to the lore
You have a very engaging voice, and give life to Tolkien's writings in the spirit of which they were written. You retell a tale a wash with time in such a way that 19 minutes feels like five.
Seven feet tall?! So the Numenoreans were basically a race of Gregor Cleganes? Gulp!
"They towered over the tallest orc, and the reach of their swords and spears far outmatched that of their enemy"
a paraphrased quote from the description of numenorean soldiers fighting in the last alliance.
Yeah, Numenoreans were gigachads
You bring Tolkien alive, it’s a huge reminder for how important world crafting is. Much respect for you my man.
I love the way you said “with the words of *Sauron* in his ear”
These illustrations of Numenor using the Atlantis style for clothing and stuff is so cool, the connection is so obvious but it's such a great way to underline it !
Nice video! I am always sad when I hear about Númenor. These men are descendants of the FA Edain which valiantly fought against Melkor side by side with Eldar. These men were great even without privileges and gifts which were given to Númenoreans. And when I see how 90% of their late SA descendants fall under the shadow, it really makes me sad.
I am looking forward to your video about Aldarion.
Part of it is simply the cycle of Men. People first do great things and then their descendants get comfortable and fall to stupidity.
hard time create strong men, strong men crate peace time, peace time create weak men, weak men create hard times, and so on.
Just as small additions to this excellent video:
Sauron probably had the ring with him in Númenor and his spirit was - according to Tolkien - able to retrieve the One Ring and bring it with him to Mordor.
And Sauron deceived Ar-Pharazon in more than one way: The Undying Lands aren't called this way cause they grant its inhabitants immortality - it's the other way around: Cause only Valar and Elves live(d) there, they were called this way. This meant, Ar-Pharazon and the other Númenorians never had the chance to receive immortality, cause Eru gave them the gift of mortality.
Exactly.
When you delve into the lore of the Numenorians you start to grasp just how insulting this "Rings of Power" fiasco really is.
Look at what they did to my boy Tom Bombadil
YES!!!!! Finally. I’m so stoked to watch this. Thanks and praises brother
Valar to Edain: Thanks for the help. Here's an island where you can become great.
Edain to Valar: Sweet!
3000 years later
Valar to Edain: We know you helped the elves defeat Sauron, one of our own, and he tricked you, but this isn't really working out so we're destroying you completely.
Edain to Valar: Wait, what? Even Melkor got a do-over.
I always did feel like the Valar overreacted to Ar-Pharazon's invasion. Why not let him find out for himself that the Undying Lands don't actually grant immortality? When the king died of old age anyway, it would have been clear that Sauron was lying all along.
Also, if the Valar can just call up Illuvatar whenever they want to have him open a huge chasm in the ocean floor, and even change the very shape of the world while he's at it, why didn't they use that tactic against Morgoth during the War of Wrath? Which raises the intriguing possibility of: Did they try that, and did Illuvatar refuse?
Well they did not decide to ruin Numenor .They asked Eru to decide as they werent able to choose what they should do .
God s will decided on Numenor and if you consider the fact that Eru has pretty much made it clear that death is not a terrible end but the gift of humans , he pretty much healed them all .
The therapy included terminating their experience in Ea and only Eru knows what lies after death but it is clear that it is out of mercy that Numenor got extinguished .
@@davidlundquist1979 The Valar feared the atrocities that the disappointed satan worshiping Numenorians would commit .
Malevolent acts taint the very air and land and only running waters may remain untainted by such acts .This is in Tolkien as was in all ancient civilizations .
The Valar were also unable to act decisively for they were dealing with humans and thus the most beloved children of Illuvatar , who were acting as insane lunatics by rejecting the Gift of Illuvatar , death .
One has also to note that being used to immortal sentient beings the changes of numenor really confused them - here were the descendants of the most honorable humans ,the children of Eru and they had to respond to their madness .They dont have the right to decide for them yet they must act .They also have no idea what death means for humans .
Eru acts for only He can decide on the issue , since only He knows everything .
@@davidlundquist1979 The only time to Valar call upon him appears to be when they have no idea what they’re doing. Which was not the case prior to the War of Wrath, they merely did not see fit to aid the struggle they saw as the Noldor’s (who all bore the sins of the First Kinslaying despite not all taking part because they went to help the kinslayers).
As for Ar-Pharazon, there was little else they could do. They could not harm the Children of Illuvatar, but by allowing him to continue they’d let the High Elves get in harm’s way.
@@davidlundquist1979 The Valar themselves could have stamped the Numenorean's flat at the outset. They'd dragged Morgoth, a Vala himself, back to prison then later cast him into outer darkness. I think it was a moment of uncertainty on the Valar's part....here are men...the greatest men of the age, the second children, mounting an invasion? Seriously? Manwe simply handed the issue over to God Almighty who made a quick, clean, precise, simple decision that ended the matter long before the invasion could have done real harm.
I believe this is the best video on Neumenor yet!
Thank you so much for these videos. I loved the Silmarillion but had a hard time piecing it all together. I will enjoy my next read through much more
I can't believe how VAST, the realm that Tolkien channeled is.... He was a true Mystical person, he was a true medium who could see, with his mind's eye, glimpses of the other world... the world of the Elemental ones, Nymphs, Elves and Fairies... he was a most blessed Man by Heaven, that great Sir... Tolkien
Yeah reading LOTR and the other lore you really have to think he got all this info from someplace beyond simply his imagination.
I've always wondered.. If Tar-Míriel was one of the faithful and with that probably secret ally/friend to Isildur and his sons, why didn't she leave the Númenor with them?
Tragic... :(
Great video, Nerd! Always enjoying topics about Númenor :).
Very well done video. I can already tell this will be the first of many I will be watching from this channel.
This just destroyed my views of Amazon s Rings of Power... Its a completetly different take . I guess it s more consumer friedly that way. Great Job by the way. I loved this video
Echos of the fall of Atlantis in this tale. According to legend the infamous continent of Atlantis was mostly destroyed 850,000 years ago with the last large island being destroyed 12,000 yrs ago. It was this last remnant of a once glorious realm that Plato refers to in his account of its final destruction.
It’s really interesting to see the parallels between the kingdom of numenor and the kingdom of Israel in the Old Testament
These r so well done w excellent content n vocal delivery
I can recall the first time, when I heard that the Black Numenorians were practicing human sacrifices. I was horrified to learn they strayed away from Manwe.
Great story again Matt!👍👍
Thanks so much for this amazing content!
I have been trying to recreate Numenor in Maya for years now.
I want to make an immersive, lore based, game where you can explore all of Numenor and experience it's stories.
A detailed look at the cities and the areas around them (the 5 different points of the star shaped island)
What a character might feeling while out over Numenor from a high vista point.
The information I've found is vague at best.
You may want to take inspiration from artwork or a mix of High Elven architecture with Gondorian architecture, as we know the latter is descended from the Númenórean style which in turn was heavily influenced by the former.
Hows it coming along?
the details in Tolkien works never ceases to amaze me
This is the best channel on RUclips! The attention to detail and the effort you put in is astonishing. Tolkeins world is incredible and you do such a brilliant job of explaining every detail. Thanks for your work 👍🏻 Who composes the music that you use in your videos?
Been waiting for this topic for a long time, you did not disappoint
re - 12:20 Errr... Sauron was actually kinda truthful when speaking to Ar-Pharazon.
I mean, the men of Numenor DID become mightier than the Valar, such that in their peril, they called Eru to deal with their revolt. The only thing Sauron lied about was in convincing men that Eru was imaginary.
The Valar were not inferior to Númenoreans, they just couldn't oppose them for men are the favorite children of Ilúvatar
@@Diogolindir
In 'Letters' Tolkien mentions that the Valar call down the guardianship of Eru (upon the invading Numenoreans) because- and I quote- _"Their peril is real."_
@@Raz.C Could be read as "their" peril...(the Numenoreans, facing off against demi gods) is real. Yes, the invading force could have done great damage to Aman but lets face it, the Valar had dragged one of their own, TWICE from Middle earth after defeating his forces. No, the Valar could have flattened the Numenoreans flat on their invasion. They didn't because men were favored by Eru, and because the situation was without precedent. They left it to the old man, who quickly and cleanly excised the infection.
@@michaelfisher7170
I might agree with your reasoning, if (1) I weren't quoting Tolkien directly and (2) the Valar hadn't relied on the armies of the Vanyar and Teleri to finally overthrown Morgoth (end of 1st age).
It was- if I recall correctly- one of Tolkien's letters in which he states that following Ar-Pharazon's invasion of Valinor, the Valar were in "real peril."
Sauron, though he was of the same species as the Valar, was nevertheless defeated in physical battle and his body was killed/ destroyed in the battle of the Last Alliance. After his body was killed, he still lived on, but was no longer able to physically interact with the world (until his spirit grew strong enough, 3000 years later, to be able to exert his influence directly on physical beings). It's possible that he was on the verge of producing a new body, but it would seem that being killed, the way Sauron was killed (by Gil Galad and Elendil) served to lengthen the re-embodiment process.
The reason I bring this up is because I expect this is what Tolkien was referring to when he states that the Valar were in "real peril" from the armies of Numenor. The physical bodies of the Valar were physical bodies and subject to physical laws and so, could be killed. If the Valar had all been killed in battle against the invading Numenorians and even if it only took a single year for them to be re-embodied (which apparently it doesn't. If Sauron's case is typical, it might well have taken them thousands of years), then it STILL would have been too little, too late for them to be able to do anything at all to hinder Ar-Pharazon and his armies from claiming Valinor. Who knows, if they HAD claimed Valinor, perhaps Sauron may have travelled there to free Morgoth? How much worse would THAT have been?
Ps: Gandalf's death was a different case. It's clear that he was resurrected, rather than re-embodied. It's clear because his fea was sent back to the same body, rather than waiting to create a new body and then travelling back to middle earth from Valinor in it. I believe (though I could be wrong) that this is the only case of resurrection (Beren and Luthien MIGHT be another, I'm not certain). Every other case involves an immortal Fea being re-embodied, a process which appears to take thousands of years, if at all.
@@Raz.C Well answered friend. Nothing's better than considering Arda's metaphysics!
Thank you for crediting the amazing artists for all of their wonderful works!
Last night I was going through your channel searching for a vid on Numenor, low and behold it gets uploaded today, nice
Great timing! 😁
Thank you so much for this vid!!!! This is exactly what I needed 🙌
Found your channel in July after watching the extended cuts of the lothrs.definitly my favorite Tolkien channel
Thanks so much! I always love to hear that people are enjoying the channel - and it's fun to hear when people discovered NOTR! :)
@@NerdoftheRingsalways looking forward to more keep doing what your doing its great
This 19 minute YT video portrays Numenor millions of time better than a billion dollar show
Most of the artwork shown in this video is sublime, and although they did a good job to represent Numenor on the show, these illustrations transmit a higher degree of mastery and sophistication.
YES FINALLY!!!!!! Been waiting for a vid on Numenor since I discovered your channel and there will be more you say. So excited. Numenor is the thing I'm most interested in. Thank you.
Tall ships and tall kings
Three times three
What brought they from the foundered land
Over the flowing sea?
Seven stars and seven stones
And one white tree.
love your videos mate, keep it up!
The rings of power producers should’ve spent a couple days with your channel
true
one of your most beautiful videos! Truly!
Actually, I have seen with my own eyes (on The Rings of Power) that Numenor consists of a small-scale, bigoted, Mediterranean-esque fishing village.
This grand vision of Numenorean civilisation is way off the mark.
Damn, well done. I'll be watching more of your videos. Thank you.
Thanks so much, and welcome to the channel!
You may not like the guy, but it has to be admitted that Sauron has a lot of talent with words.
Sauron and my last boss were very similar.
As soon as I saw Numener I knew this was gonna be a banger and it was amazing job Just as always!
thats an 800 year (approx) warning/heads up from Gilgalad's plea for help to when Sauron actually invaded......wow
No wonder Saurons forces had no chance against Numenor - First age war veteran Nation who were well rested and had AGES to prepare!
Love the visual style and production of your videos!
I'd like to learn more about the very beginning of Numenor. How did the men who moved there from Middle Earth become almost super-human?
Eru granted them the long life, health and stature at the end of the first age due to their service in the fight against Morgoth. They were of the houses of the Edain. Almost completely wiped out by Morgoth in the war. The silmarillion is the book which covers these events. Enjoy.
Great summary and artistry,
thank you.
Sauron (and by extension Morgoth) are the best written villain in literature. Always manipulating into the weaknesses and desires of men and elves. Playing to their greed and self-interest and corrupting it from within. The lies he says are believable as well, because there is some truth in them. The truth of discord with reality/Eru.
9:27 4th king pic is literally a pic of Talos from Skyrim. Dude I thought you expected nerds here... :D
Great. Been waiting all week for the next vid.
Wow, I asked and you listened! Thank you so much and keep up the great work