Hands down, this is a gem. This is the best articulated description of borderline personality disorder for those who always felt like they don't fit into classical bpd description. I think it is also generally obvious that bpd individual tend to fluctuate between the states of grandiosity to very low self esteem/worth (type of internal splitting). Also, extreme feeling of abandonment, emptiness, lack of self perception is likely always presents, and have significant effect on emotions, behavior and reactions including consistent personality ambivalence. Thank you Sam for all the hard work you put to educate and help people to validate their personality disorder.
Hello. My name is Christian and, recently, I started watching your videos in regards to narcissism, borderline and psychopathy. Upon watching your videos on the proposed covert borderline diagnosis, I had pretty much what people call an awakening or a revelation. I have been abused as a child both physically and psychologically by my grandmother (I was raised by her and my mother), and at the same time, was loved unconditionally by my classic borderline mother. All my life I have thought that I am mainly a primary psychopath, yet, I exhibited features that are not found in primary psychopathy and the main things different from psychopathy were the fact that I was able to love my mother and feel utterly destroyed after her death three years ago and, also, I am able to love certain animals, especially cats and the fact that I truly search to feel at peace and feel loved, even though It's hard for me to do or express that, yet I cannot seem to fully trust other people at all. All my life I though I was a primary psychopath, yet something was not quite right. I am in a relationship, in the 7th month to be exact, and, watching this video with my girlfriend, she told me as well "Look! Here it is! Here s the weird part that does not match psychopathy, the thing that you have, but explained properly!" and at the same time, I had a revelation. It makes sense. Every time I feel threatened by ANYTHING, I become this aggressive, goal oriented, cold blooded predatory beast that is meant to destroy anything that questions or threatens it in any way. Long story short, I want to thank you for bringing this forward and for your level of intellect. Somehow, you have helped me understand myself finally, because I used to be diagnosed as a primary psychopath, as a narcissist, a bipolar and machiavellic over the years. I did not understand what I am, why I am and how I am. Now I feel a bit more at peace and can finally understand things. Please. If you happen to have any literature, any articles, ANYTHING in regards to covert borderline, can you send that to me in order to study upon for a better understanding? I cannot seem to find articles on this. What circulates the internet is mostly in regards to classic borderline and when researching about any kind of covert, I get articles in regards to narcissism. Again, thank you and you have my deepest respect
I had met classic borderline male, not covert although male. He was self harming, attempts of suicide, strong fear of abandonment, cry often when he is emotionally overwhelmed, low functioning etc. He would became sociopath when he lacks the means of subsistence and even, as I found out later, he had spent a couple of years in prison. It was quite shocking.
It' absolutely amazing: I was watching and reading your content for the last 12 month to understand the behaviour of my ex-girlfriend. This is exactly on point and combines the several different traits of a narcissist, histrionic, borderline and a psychopath in a special idiosyncratic way that did not make sense in my mind before. Unbelievable how much experience you have in this issue. For me it helps rationalizing what I was aware of and finally helps me to heal. You're the best, Sam! ❤
Awed!!!! Top of the tops! I love how you use lots of synonyms and rephrasing. It helps us better understand the ideas communicated in your videos. Thank you , Professor .
I was involved in a lengthy relationship with a covert borderline and this description is 100% correct. When you compared them to the Joker it sent chills down my spine. He had a poster of the joker on his wall and self identified with the character. Even had a tattoo of him. He could be the sweetest, most loving person but when he switched it was truly terrifying. Thank you for this in depth videos, understanding what we went through is helping me to heal. Hopeful for healing for all those who seek it with a pure and open ❤️
Covert Borderline is precisely what my ex was. I lasted almost exactly one year before I saw it. He fits all of these descriptions, it's uncanny. I'm codependent and wasn't aware of either of these disorders so to say I've been traumatized is putting it lightly. Add to that the ex before the BPD was NPD. I have some serious therapy to do. Thanks for your videos, they help me feel not so alone.
But why dislike him after watching this he tried but his mind couldn’t him let him see you, the life he lives is sad a Christian that knows non of it is true
@@bugsythetwin3022he needs to heal. Trying does not heal. Trying is a band-aid solution. All borderlines need to delve deep and address their earliest childhood trauma. Where did you come from. Hard if the covert borderline can't open up and be vulnerable. Hard if he blames himself. Not his fault. No one is to blame for their own trauma, it's passed down through the generations. But it's their responsibility to heal. Not just try. Heal. Happy healing to all borderlines, it's a healable disorder. Unlike NPD. Thank you Sam Vaknin. My ex and father of my sons is NPD. He does not put his children first. I do. Thankfully for them. I'm a codependent, healing myself
@@bugsythetwin3022 sorry if that sounds insensitive. I am all about having hope. Keep doing whatever proves effective for you to reduce symptoms and whatever helps with the management of them. I'm a big believer in CBT, DBT and childhood trauma healing. Know exactly where I came from and it has helped me. Wish you well. We're all lovable.
This blew my mind. I have thought my ex-husband was a narcissist but after your two videos on covert borderline I now think it’s likely that that’s what he is. The part about these types being emotionally dysregulated and rationalizing their outbursts because of their grandiosity stunned me. That was my ex-husband to a tee! I always felt that he did not understand his emotions. He was like a toddler, he felt things intensely but could never articulate or accurately label his emotions. I always suspected that he did not understand what was behind his outbursts but was too prideful and embarrassed to admit it. I would watch him scramble to come up with a reason (an excuse) as to why he suddenly flipped out or behaved irrationally. It was obvious to me that he simply could not admit that he did not know, that he did not understand his own behaviour. Ultimately, he would blame me, it was always something I said, or did, or did not do, etc.. I always sensed that he felt tremendous shame that he could not control his emotions and desperately wanted to hide this major malfunction. For years I tried so hard to be empathetic and help him with these issues but that just made him hate me. He was a tortured person, deeply unhappy. I had to let him go.
Curious if anyone bothered to test him for ASD - I’ve seen many people who fit the criterion completely transform for the better and experience genuine connection once the partner was aware to not take certain things personally as long as said partner is willing to be reciprocal.
So sorry for both of you and understand how maddening it is to want to help someone who does not want help or even be willing to consider their behavior inappropriate when it causes heartbreak and is so obviously abusive - however like he’s said misery loves company and I prefer stability.
Thank you Professor Vaknin, a very accurate description of the behavior of my ex non confessed covert borderline girlfriend who is also a therapist which made it very confusing. She wanted to control every aspect of her life, she couldn't be alone, planned months ahead. I went no contact because I couldn't reach her emotionally, very high IQ but when abandonment was perceived she changed into a little child crying and after this her demeanor changed into a very calm destructive person who wanted to destroy me and blamed me for everything what happened. Very disturbing and sad, because I really saw she wanted love but she was not capable of accepting it. Finally a blessing in disguise because it made me aware of my own issues as a co-dependent.
It's the most clear explanation I ever heard, thank you professor Vaknin. I thought my ex was narcissist, but he didn't have all the traits, then I thought he has classical borderline, but again wasn't complete, but this video has all accurate traits. At least now I know. Thank you for your extraordinary work and research.
This 'Covert Borderline Video' I find absolutely fascinating. I feel like I fit into the category of 'Covert Borderline' in many respects that said though, I have never cheated 'always been faithful'. I view this video as a masterpiece.
Oh, trust me. I fully agree that borderline personality disorder is a form of psychopathy. Of course, I may be biased, as I dated several women with this condition...sadly...
I have befriend a person with BPD for many years. I agree that the BPD (at least the one I know ) is exactly as Prof.Vaknin describes them. When one gets on their bad side they can be vindictive, manipulators, and in need of control at all times. One thing I was surprised to hear him say is that “ they adopt a masculine ideology.” This is so spot on! The BPD I know hates men and the men she has dated have always been docile and prone to manipulation.They constantly disassociate and they also dance between “ feeling deeply” (which can be confused with a good trait, such as empathy) to behaving like a narcissist AND a sociopath. What they are really looking for when they act “ empathetic “ is really a need to merge bc they feel empty. They are loners and distrustful of others. Highly insecure with a lack sense of SELF. Ughhhh! They are exhausting to deal with !!!!! 🤦🏼♀️ May the lord of boundaries come down and help me. I hope Professor Vatkin makes a video on how to deal and protect ourselves.
Dr. Vaknin, I’m a classic borderline who knew a covert borderline. Your description was spot on. So spot on, I actually stood up at the end of the video and applauded. I removed the covert borderline from my life because as they aged, they became very passive aggressive just as you described. The covert borderline I know is in fact very organized and great with people, but they’re still a financial failure. They do work hard and make a lot of friends, but nothing impressive in terms of assets. Wonderful video.
@@madeleinecrown1596 I really like people who assume someone is not self-reflecting based on a compliment on a video. You must be a special type of genius.
Maybe it’s good for her as well you removed yourself from her life? It’s not very self reflective to tell that one was all bad and I am all good The coin got 2 sides but it requires rejecting grandiosity to admit it. I’m far from genius to get this point
Dear professor Sam vaknin This is so good study you have reached out to the world with. I have been followed you prof.Sam since 2010 and I have bipolar, so I’m one of those who go in 110% to your studies, my friends will mirror you and say “HE IS KIDDING YOU NOT “ I have listen to you for a hour a day and listen when you put together links from all of your work since 2010. This is a whole new level rises up of understanding. Thank you prof.Sam for your hard work, is a feeling of joy to see all of the details in every video from 2010 to this day just falls to place. Thank you.
I started researching a lot BPD and NPD due to my ex, and my research led me here. I had to end my relationship with my ex because he was exhibiting exactly the behaviour of a covert borderline: extreme paranoia (he would think I'm always cheating, hiding things from him, having manipulative intentions, trying to make him mad on purpose, pure insane ideation) and his entitlement led to extremely controlling behaviour to appease his own fears and insecurities, specifically fear of abandonment and rejection. He started restricting me and criticising me, using the Bible (since he was religious) but then he couldn't live up to the same standards he was applying to me (the rigid rules). Also addicted to alcohol and with no emotional regulation. He would externalise his emotions onto me and blame me and accuse me, and I would act as punching bag. He also triangulated me after I left, fell in love with a new woman in only a month and rubbed her in my face as punishment. Very hard to have a relationship with those people.
I have referred myself as the Dark Triad for many years as I identified with the combination of the 3. But this Covert borderline personality fits me like a glove. Finally after all this time everything within my personality fits. Btw, it's as close to hell on earth it gets.
@antonioorsini How can I learn more from a dark-triad's pint of view?? All Links/Books by self-diagnosed dark-triads, welcome. Thanks for your post and hope you've found the back door resolution to your hell of coping mechanisms 🙏🏼
It's almost like the psychiatrists who specializes in bpd are walking kn egg shells from us their patients. Like they are scared to say we have secondary psycopathy or we may quit therapy or internalize it. Also, calling us psycopaths can further the stigma, however I want the truth. I definitely act like a psycopath in a bpd rage.Lets look at it honestly.
Any help would be highly appreciated because, as far as I can see, you are the first person that can actually get me and other people like me. One that can see AND understand the complex processes that make someone like me and how does one react due to these processes that come, mostly, from childhood trauma.
I don’t understand all you say, but the person I lived with for 32 years had what I think is BPD. She is not what I would think of as a grand narcissist. She has a great fear of abandonment. She also doesn’t allow me to express myself or be my own person. She wants me to be one with her, and she controls everything, and I mean everything. To others, she seems shy and withdrawn, but she is aggressively controlling when others are not around. She tells me she will kill herself if anything happens to me, yet she treats me with distain, tolling her eyes at me. I left 8 months ago. She still lives in my home and it is a legal battle to sell it. Whew!
After watching hours and hours of your videos I think I found what I was looking for, I'm almost sure that the girl I'm dating is Covert Borderline, she fits the profile almost perfectly, although sometimes she shows vulnerability and has suicidal ideas that never gets to consolidate. I guess she fluctuates between covert and other subtypes. Professor Vaknin, I wanted to thank you because you clarified the panorama for me, I was going crazy and I was suffering a lot trying to understand what was happening with this girl. I wanted to ask you if there is a bibliography that you can recommend or something because I can't find almost anything about Covert Borderlines on google and youtube apart from what you uploaded and my psychiatrist who was the one who told me that this girl seemed to be Borderline told me that she didn't knows nothing about the Covert Boderlines, so I don't know where to continue learning about it.. Also ask if there is any known treatment or any way to live with people who suffer from this. THANK YOU SO MUCH.
Thank you Dr vaknin. I am a woman but most of the traits you have described for covert borderlines apply on me. I have always knew I have a personality disorder but I did never fit well in classical borderline. Also have narc traits but does not qualify as a actual narc. Narcissistic ppl do find me pretty much likable but once they approach me they are mortified for some reason and they do nit stuck around as long as it takes with classical borderlines. That video was an eye opener.
Professor Vaknin, thank you for this. I believe you described my ex husband including the sadistic triangulation and primary psychopathy that occurred toward the end of our marriage of 32 years. I had endured several infidelities and tumultuous ups and downs but I just could not take any more as he refused to “give up this relationship” with his paramour. He is a family physician who displayed arrogant behavior toward his patients and ended up losing staff and patients over his very public affair and eventually lost his practice but rationalized it as he did the affair and so many of his choices. Could you please provide any insight on healing from these relationships. Is it the same educational advice you have given about narcissistic abuse- like no contact? Should I be concerned about hoovering? Could you expand more on the outcomes of these individuals and any pearls for moving forward from a survivors point of view. I am also a physician and sadly was taught nothing of the nuances of these disorders in med school (DSM III vintage). Thank you for the education. It has been truly eye opening and in many ways validating as to what I experienced physically, emotionally and spiritually.
This is remarkably descriptive of myself, I've had people suggest Cluster B pathologies to me before but I'm a purist. I always hunt down all the information about any particular disorder and it's subtypes and compare them to myself, and they never fit unless they're made so vague that the majority of people would fit the description. Frankly I also have little interest in change outside of gaining more emotional control and will power regarding addictive tendencies. In particular I had trouble accepting the idea that I could be borderline because I've been intermittently working towards a meditation practice for a while in order to control my widely unstable emotions, but this has had the effect of allowing me to voluntarily, as if flicking a switch, enter a somewhat psychopathic state of mind. A friend of mine has a wife who is classically borderline who reported to me that DBT allowed her to engage her empathy in a more normal manner. I've not encountered this before in any academic research, mediation practice leading to decrease in empathy. Frankly it's quite pleasant, even if I'm still a long way off from controlling my emotions or addition issues. Is this phenomenon indicative of something more general? It seems unlikely that I'm some special snowflake in this regard.
I’ve talked with a transcendental meditation instructor that said when they doubled the time of their 20 minute-twice daily-meditations, they became a meaner person. Interesting
Definitely me... Does this have anything to do with cluster A personalities? Particularly schizoid? I believe myself to desire love. I am quite rational until I become irrational. Some people deserve it others don't. It usually about love and finding which people fit best for you. Even if you are a covert borderline, would that mean I was born a psychopath first who wants to know what love is? Was I born psychopathic and then borderline? Or was I always a psychopath from the begging. Is it cause I truly lack remorse that I must find someone who has remorse? With love I am calm and happy. Take that away I am cold, calloused, methodical, cunning. Sometimes its not even my fault. People will get me mad it seems I can piss them off alot better than they can piss me off. Why is there dynamic like this. How can someone be good and evil at the same time. How are there two worlds in side of the coin? Why is hate and love so intense. Isnt it better to stay away from intimacy to avoid people you cant trust? Covert borderline is also about self preservation, we are very calcualted and self sufficient people who want love. How do I understand love but feel no empathy. I know who I am yes. But Narcissist, Antisocial, Psychopaths dont have a true self. Is it true that I dont have a true self but yet I can define extremely well what it means to be human and what love is
Been watching your vids for about a month. My dad's girlfriend has many narcissistic traits. She switches to a psychopathic state when her faults are brought into limelight. She gaslights, rages, throws objects, and malicious. I can't tell you exactly what her disorder is I'm not a therapist. But I can see her switch states of mind. It's some type of defense mechanism or some type of traumatized state.
Dr Vaknin, with the contrast of full spectrum emotions with narcissistic defenses, are covert borderline people able to heal (in the correct therapy or chance setting?)
Part of me is so confused...for starters, I know I have some narc traits that I'm aware of...my father was/is a narc and I know a lot of things have rubbed off onto me...however, I am aware of these things and am making an effort to work/change. I play and record my own music and I guess you could say I'm a handsome dude...according to other people anyway. Am I being a paranoid narc or am I seeing reality when I know for certain people have tried to get into my head and knock me down and get me off focus or get me to doubt myself. What if people ARE actually jealous...or am I delusional? Somedays I do fall into the mindset of blaming others, but only those who tried to get into my head and who did succeed at destroying parts of me and taking my time and making me doubt myself. I know I didn't always handle confrontations rightly, but I guess sometimes I do take things super deeply personal because of how many years I spent screwed up mentally from my father rarely lifting me up or saying anything good or ever giving me credit for something I accomplished...he always had a way of making me feel deeply flawed and sucked the life out of me. In a lot of ways I have been angry at the world, the company that allowed an individual to harass me for six years affecting my health mentally, emotionally, physically....my family for allowing me so much time to myself as a child. I was super neglected emotionally which leads me to anger in present day because I realize my deficiencies because of the neglect/isolation and now that adulthood is getting a bit more pressing I have to overcompensate. Seems every time I opened up my heart just a crack to expose some vulnerability and needed some fucking love, there was some evil person to wound me up worse than I was before or to take advantage of my pain and try to manipulate me. Now after studying things for about 5 years, I do see where I did become grandiose and delusional about my own success and appearance to cover up how godawful I felt inside from the pain. But do true narcs admit this? Am I a narcissist or a victim or both? Somedays i wish I could end it because of how painful it is mentally. The anger toward my parents for putting all their emotional and mental bullshit on me causing me a lifetime of confusion and pain and now it's MY responsibility to fix it. But I know that suicide is not the right path at all and IS extremely and utterly selfish. The hardest part is growing up with such deep dysfunction and all the while thinking I'm in a "Christian" family. I'm not saying God and Jesus aren't the real deal because I have experienced things on a spiritual level that reveal a truth no words can express. Part of my fathers religious fixations screwed me up also. It's like I'm just supposed to go to God with everything but that's not even what the Bible says. We are supposed to be there for one another, grieve with one another. Sometimes all I want is just some fucking physical affeciton...to feel safe for once in my life. Sorry for giving my life story here but...heck...I can't hold this in. I'm just at the point where I realize what you are saying and others who make videos on narcissism and I'm willing to see my own narcissism, but am also wondering if a lot of my issues have stemmed just from being around true narcs? Any support here will be greatly appreciated, thank you.
If you open yourself up and more than likely explained all your weaknesses(not necessarily vulnerabilities) to what you are use to; which are predators of course; they are going to fuck with your head and make you relive your trauma to control and/or break you if you try to resist..LoL! You're paranoia comes from realizing that people like that do exist and in certain environments at a higher rate. Granted you are not totally delusional by being mind fucked half of what you realize 65-70% of time is what is actually going on and 30-35% of the time you are going to misread some shit..LoL! Happens to the best of us. Becareful and aware. Stop telling people how to play mind games with you because most of the time that's all it is. They know how to do that shit because they themselves suffer from the same thing and caculated what to do to you to make themselves feel better as if they are superior to you because they feel little themselves. Stop talking/reacting & watch how they go back to default and you'll see they are just as miserable & for what they really are. To much to explain in detail on youtube comment section, but if in need of assistance we can find other ways/platforms to chat on.
So, personality disorders are like the wave-particle duality They are both a particle and a wave at the same time. They operate in one cluster, but can exist within another cluster too. Kind of like Schrödinger’s cat. Existing in both states
Thank you Prof. Vaknin from the bottom of my heart! I divorced my ex-husband because he is exactly your description and definition of covert borderline but also diagnosed asperger (ASD). I thought he was a combo of autistic with strong narcissism but upon listening to this vid I’m sure he’s covert borderline. Described like his portrait! So glad I left him, although damaged still in one piece.
Doctor Sam, I am very grateful for your pioneering work to say the least. Thank you so much. I am a covert borderline and I have 2 questions, if and when I transition into a primary psychopath permanently, do I still feel fear and anxiety as I was initially covert borderline? Also how do I know when I have fully transitioned into a primary psychopath, will I always be angry? I definitely have intervals of extreme rage when triggered, that's the protector coming out but how will I feel when I fully transitioned permanently? I've been hurt and betrayed by those I loved most, the level of betrayal was very high. I'll spare the you the details of that. I feel quite numb too, I did take anti psychotic drugs and it permanently took away certain emotions and most of my empathy can be numbed if I choose to, numbed in a insipid way rather than in a malignant way. Anyway I would rather be a primary psychopath and not feel anything, so how would I feel doctor, I would be so grateful if you replied
Amazing finally explained!! Thank you Dr, you are truly Genius!!! First Doctor who knows what he’s talking about & explains it soooo Crystal Clear 🎉 Covert Borderline
Dr Vaknin, I find myself mesmerized by your videos. It seems that we know less about our minds then we do about the ocean. I was wondering since a covert borderline is so similar to the narcissist, would the covert borderline be just as attracted and magnetized to a borderline women?
OMG... I stumbled upon this channel. Very insightful. I was married 24 yrs to a covert narcissist. I initiated divorce and caused a narcissistic injury. I had to move 3000 miles to escape his vengeful tactics. Still experiencing his smear campaign and financial abuse to my credit. He’s now on RUclips posing as a narcissist specialist life coach. Unbelievable!! The psychosis of these type of minds is astonishing.
Not sure if I have already replied on this but apparently I have autistic traits, as referred in your very well spoken video here, such as dissecting topics ad nauseum...as a covert borderline. Especially those pertaining to myself. The paranoia portion in C-Borderline is on point and in congruent with...could you say an "underlay" of a "prosocial" psychopathy gene. Or even a psychopathy gene that had been nurtured. One that could be heightened by childhood abuse or trauma, in the later years to form the Covert Borderline Overlay. I have family that are malignant narcissist, so overt not covert. We have both psychopathy and schizophrenia on my mother's side. The difference in myself and my 1/2 sibling who is malignant NPD' is he was neglected by my NPD mother and I was around my very loving father in the early stages. However, genetically my brother and I do not share the same father or his good genes. What do you think makes more of a difference in my diagnosis vs his? It is clear to see how my sibling ended up Malignant NPD with your videos on overlays. Thanks for the clarity. I can put a little of this paranoia at bay, which is very soothing.
100 % amazing. First time I have listened to your words! Wow I have been saying type b clustered personalitys are one and the same that over lap and Resemble one another. I felt you were talking about my life and my thought patterns (or maybe I am paranoid!! Ha ha). With that said I am not doing well these day's due to the realization that I am going to prison and for a long time over my all in and no Boundaries relationships antics. I hope I am over the dangerous part of things because I was in a bad place recently, mentally. Understanding how I'm able to use empathy has open my eyes up to new possibilities since I could quite put my finger on where it disappeared to at times. I wasn't sure if it really existed. I thought it was there but also thought it was a subconscious way of manipulation. Is there any hope for any kind of treatment that I can change? Something says lobotomy is my only option but in reality I am pretty much f$#@@d. I see why Suicide rates are high in borderline but I think I am so full of grandeur that I could do it. Hope this wasn't inappropriate I dont usually know if things are. I am definitely worn out and even when I know how I think(somewhat)I try to explain this to people how important it is for me to feel appreciate it and valued and loved. I really don't care about anything else and it leaves me open to being used and manipulated by people. I find i seemingly find Narcissistic personalities in my inner circle Which causes a lot of problems. That is the repeat relationship patterns you were talking about i presume. The only reason I have taken a look who and how I think is because I was discarded and it shocked me for more reasons then one. The abandonment issue was definitely difficult but also the feeling that I was out witted and used. I am prepared to get hurt I do expect it but I was totally unaware and blinded by the way I felt important and loved and valued. It was the greatest few months of my life other then 4 years prior and with same person. Both times followed with the worse times of my life.
Dr. Vaknin, this was incredibly on the money. I have felt npd was not the correct diagnosis...Do you think the covert borderline could be created due to long term exposure to classic borderline wife?
Happy New Year, Sam and just a short question: I've been studying your material for just over a year now and I'm pretty sure my ex-partner was a Covert borderline. Does it make any sense to tell him or should I not?
Wow, I didn't really expect to get an answer from you! Thanks a lot, I'm very grateful.😌 Yes, of course, I know I'm not qualified to make any diagnose. The only question that bothered me was morally whether I had an obligation to disclose my suspicions, or whether it might be better for someone with such a severe disorder not to know because there is little help available anyway. Thanks a lot for your brillant work. @@samvaknin
thanks for the video. Please would you consider this scenario : suppose you can only choose between overt Narc and covert Borderline in the person you are speaking to. You are speaking to your friend(in private) about a muscle exercice, about a very recent information about subdivision of a division of muscle and how each grip type target a part. Suddenly he explode saying that he already know that because of experience(falsely because what he said after is bullshit). Then, he start telling you in a very agressive way did you remember how i was doing this here, that here... Can a covert borderline do that or it seem very very narcissitic ?😂😂😂 Notice sometimes i'm speaking about something, he attribute that to himself even if he does not know about that but what seem so interesting is the way HE BELIEVE that, you can not say he's lying(i think his body would not show any lying sign 😂)
I am sure I am a secondary psychopath. I can see myself when you talk about classic overt borderline women. I am neurotic and broken. I've scared many men but not been violent towards anyone. Self-defeating, self-trashy, I've done that. I am not good with intimacy or relationships. Can I change that?
Thank you, that description of a personality disorder "smoothie" answers a lot of questions for me.. I've always wondered why would someone so grandiose and entitled and has the typical relationship vicious cycle, cry with a little boy he found crying when he got lost in the crowd, buy street animals food and really adore children ?
Good evening, "He s socialy charming, he s charsismatic ..." so why is it difficult than to find new people to connect, new partners? How does he 'pick' his partners? Emotional as 'being in love, in need of care, etcetera or as supply in she's rich, good looking, good status, whatever Thans for respons, grt Jasmine
Wow. I feel so exposed but I'm happy to know more about myself. I have CPTSD as well. Is there any form of treatment that's shown to be effective for covert borderlines?
With these added categories coupled with your idea of the spectrum, doesn't almost everyone fit within these categories, over, covert, borderline, narcissist, and even psychopath?
Hi Sam!! There are some academics who claim that peers and friends also collaborate in the formation of the self in the child and youth age. Furmann and Buhrmester, for example, noted the important role that peers and friends play in self-esteem. Parker and Gottman have studied the power of integration of emotions, self-knowledge and self-control. could there be a "second chance" for traumatised children and adolescent? could this be found in the "act" of creating/building friendships? thanks. Love your videos.
@@samvaknin You are the most compelling, fascinating man I have ever listened to. I love your replies as much as your videos. Thanks for all the info. I have never heard anyone explain the BPD experience so perfectly. I may be crazy but it's real crazy, not imagined.
Fascinating video. Thank you Prof. Vaknin as always. Question for you: is it possible to differentiate between a covert borderline and someone who is perpetrating reactive abuse due to exposure to an NPD or BPD partner? Would you only look at when the behaviors began? Or are there qualitative differences between the two?
Hi Dr. Vaknin, In response to your feedback I find myself here and agree with your assessment. I am definitely BL and I believe Covert is the ideal fit, yet I am not a man. My comment is that although there is no doubt about the CBL and by-the-way I agree it is trauma based, I still display some distinctive traits of the Classic that are not shared with the Covert, while never approaching the Classic's cyclonic mental state. As a female CBL, I share some secondary traits with the Classic and lack some secondary traits of the Covert. Is this your experience of female CBLs?
It is a new suggested diagnosis. I am still not sure whether there is type constancy (back and forth between classic and covert) or even - like in narcissism - both covert and overt state manifest in every borderline (switching into covert or secondary psychopathy under stress).
@@samvaknin If I was to call it, I'd say it is the latter, because I am conscious of possessing some traits of both, with the CBL being the dominant self (a Classic with functional self-control and self-reflection?), regardless of my stress level and I'm always cognizant to attempt to sort out the emotional storm before responding, but I rarely succeed. I have trouble telling the difference between the more subtle emojis, so don't use them and if others send them to me I need my daughter to verify the depicted emotion, if it is more than just a smile. I am also acutely conscious of the need to fight off my impulsivity, keeping it tightly underwraps, even taking steps to make it impossible to act out or be impulsive in order to save face. Between the ages of 4 and 8 I intentionally stopped speaking, because I deemed my responses were always incorrect. Incidentally, I could not learn to read during those years, but accomplished the task immediately after I began to speak again. Saving face is important, paramount. I think by doing so, I imagine I hide my damage. -- I hope that this is helpful as I'd like to return the favour and I wanted to thank you for your time and insight. I have found it freeing. I will continue to inform myself, but not take up any more of your time, if I can help it. I would have loved to take your classes when I was doing my psych. I might not have switched to philosophy.
Can you inflict narcissistic abuse from a Npd parent to a Covert borderline child or he is immunue? If that happens, would he rather become a pure classic borderline, or would he stay Covert borderline with some caracteristic of cptsd?
Sam, is it possible that a Covert Borderline, as the covert narcissist does, tells you "you've changed, your not the same as you were at the beginning"?
Don't you think if a person like myself had low self esteem all most of all of my life because I was a nothing from early childhood n as an adult became aware of the many things I could achieve n as a result learned to love myself n when ever I could share that love with others. Is there something wrong with that
I have been described perfectly in the 2nd video series of odd couples as covert borderline. I am interested what would be the diffirential criteria between a counter-dependandt DPD and a covert borderline?
Hello Dr Vaknin, Thank you for this information and for providing ad-free videos! Can you please clarify - does the covert borderline engage his partner in a shared fantasy? Or is that specific to the narcissist? Thank you.
@@samvaknin Thank you so much for clarifying. Your description here of the covert borderline is the first that makes 100% sense. I wish I could help him, it’s heartbreaking.
Thank you for the content, Dr. Vaknin. I find these lectures on Covert Borderlines the most informative sources available online. Question about this specific subject material: apparently, there are 4 types of Borderline personality variants classified by psychologists. Where would the characteristics of the covert borderline fit within those 4 subtypes? Clarification or additional insight would be much appreciated! Thank you for your work.
These 4 types are not accepted or recognized by the academic committee or the DSM. There are many typologies of Borderline (for example, Theodore Millon’s) but they are speculative, anecdotal, and not supported by evidence or studies.
Dr. Vaknin: Can cold therapy help in a relationship between a covert borderline male and an inverted narcissist/borderline/codependent/ dependent personality disordered female? Is there any hope that we can have a lasting relationship or marriage without destroying each other? He is divorced after 30 years of marriage, I'm a Widow from a 33 year marriage. If there is hope, Is there anyone else trained in cold therapy that we could see? Thank you for reading and answering my long question!!!
Thank you very much for your clear video's. I just came out of a very chaotic relationship with a woman and I was trying to make sense of what happend. She actually used some of the words that you used to explain the covert borderline. It was a rollercoaster ride (she said a relationship with her is a rollercoaster ride), with her seeking attention all the time, incredible knowledge, histrionic, no empathy, ego centered, no intimacy, very chaotic, risk seeking, no fear, violent, easily angered or upset , no shame, very sexy and promiscuous with many male friends,(but I could not have female friends). Dabbled in SM sex and was proud of it. She cheated many time on her married partner again no shame, but did not want that life again she told me. When I broke up with her she said her life is in shambles, her emotions where all over the place and now she is trying to reel me back in.
You are spot on. I only listen to you know, others don’t have the knowledge that you do. Can you see any of these things on MRI or MRA of the brain? She had what’s known as a medusa in the right frontal lobe and a cyst in the posterior fossa, with flares.
Isn't fear of shame a usual feeling of a narcissist? So if they hurt someone and this fact becomes known to public they feel shame. Don't they try to be nice guys to avoid shame?
Most covert borderlines are high-functioning. But many classic borderlines are also high-functioning. So, we cannot use this in a differential diagnosis.
@@samvaknin Many thanks for your answer. I found your presentation exceptional, having some experiences with a cover borderline, it is 99,9% "as is". Could I translate it in Russian and put on RUclips ? It will be just my translation-audio on your audio (speaking) ?
![Stromae, Pomme - “Ma Meilleure Ennemie” (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Visualizer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1F3OGIFnW1k/mqdefault.jpg)
Hands down, this is a gem. This is the best articulated description of borderline personality disorder for those who always felt like they don't fit into classical bpd description. I think it is also generally obvious that bpd individual tend to fluctuate between the states of grandiosity to very low self esteem/worth (type of internal splitting). Also, extreme feeling of abandonment, emptiness, lack of self perception is likely always presents, and have significant effect on emotions, behavior and reactions including consistent personality ambivalence. Thank you Sam for all the hard work you put to educate and help people to validate their personality disorder.
Hello. My name is Christian and, recently, I started watching your videos in regards to narcissism, borderline and psychopathy. Upon watching your videos on the proposed covert borderline diagnosis, I had pretty much what people call an awakening or a revelation. I have been abused as a child both physically and psychologically by my grandmother (I was raised by her and my mother), and at the same time, was loved unconditionally by my classic borderline mother. All my life I have thought that I am mainly a primary psychopath, yet, I exhibited features that are not found in primary psychopathy and the main things different from psychopathy were the fact that I was able to love my mother and feel utterly destroyed after her death three years ago and, also, I am able to love certain animals, especially cats and the fact that I truly search to feel at peace and feel loved, even though It's hard for me to do or express that, yet I cannot seem to fully trust other people at all. All my life I though I was a primary psychopath, yet something was not quite right. I am in a relationship, in the 7th month to be exact, and, watching this video with my girlfriend, she told me as well "Look! Here it is! Here s the weird part that does not match psychopathy, the thing that you have, but explained properly!" and at the same time, I had a revelation. It makes sense. Every time I feel threatened by ANYTHING, I become this aggressive, goal oriented, cold blooded predatory beast that is meant to destroy anything that questions or threatens it in any way. Long story short, I want to thank you for bringing this forward and for your level of intellect. Somehow, you have helped me understand myself finally, because I used to be diagnosed as a primary psychopath, as a narcissist, a bipolar and machiavellic over the years. I did not understand what I am, why I am and how I am. Now I feel a bit more at peace and can finally understand things. Please. If you happen to have any literature, any articles, ANYTHING in regards to covert borderline, can you send that to me in order to study upon for a better understanding? I cannot seem to find articles on this. What circulates the internet is mostly in regards to classic borderline and when researching about any kind of covert, I get articles in regards to narcissism. Again, thank you and you have my deepest respect
I had met classic borderline male, not covert although male. He was self harming, attempts of suicide, strong fear of abandonment, cry often when he is emotionally overwhelmed, low functioning etc. He would became sociopath when he lacks the means of subsistence and even, as I found out later, he had spent a couple of years in prison. It was quite shocking.
It' absolutely amazing: I was watching and reading your content for the last 12 month to understand the behaviour of my ex-girlfriend. This is exactly on point and combines the several different traits of a narcissist, histrionic, borderline and a psychopath in a special idiosyncratic way that did not make sense in my mind before.
Unbelievable how much experience you have in this issue.
For me it helps rationalizing what I was aware of and finally helps me to heal.
You're the best, Sam! ❤
I don't know how you do it but you're SPOT ON every time. Thank you for what you do Sam
Awed!!!! Top of the tops! I love how you use lots of synonyms and rephrasing. It helps us better understand the ideas communicated in your videos. Thank you , Professor .
It is scary how accurate this is.
I was involved in a lengthy relationship with a covert borderline and this description is 100% correct. When you compared them to the Joker it sent chills down my spine. He had a poster of the joker on his wall and self identified with the character. Even had a tattoo of him. He could be the sweetest, most loving person but when he switched it was truly terrifying. Thank you for this in depth videos, understanding what we went through is helping me to heal. Hopeful for healing for all those who seek it with a pure and open ❤️
Covert Borderline is precisely what my ex was. I lasted almost exactly one year before I saw it. He fits all of these descriptions, it's uncanny. I'm codependent and wasn't aware of either of these disorders so to say I've been traumatized is putting it lightly. Add to that the ex before the BPD was NPD. I have some serious therapy to do. Thanks for your videos, they help me feel not so alone.
But why dislike him after watching this he tried but his mind couldn’t him let him see you, the life he lives is sad a Christian that knows non of it is true
@@bugsythetwin3022he needs to heal. Trying does not heal. Trying is a band-aid solution. All borderlines need to delve deep and address their earliest childhood trauma. Where did you come from. Hard if the covert borderline can't open up and be vulnerable. Hard if he blames himself. Not his fault. No one is to blame for their own trauma, it's passed down through the generations. But it's their responsibility to heal. Not just try. Heal. Happy healing to all borderlines, it's a healable disorder. Unlike NPD.
Thank you Sam Vaknin. My ex and father of my sons is NPD. He does not put his children first. I do. Thankfully for them. I'm a codependent, healing myself
@@aussiewannabepoledancer3334 right for sure all paraplegics just need to walk
@@bugsythetwin3022 sorry if that sounds insensitive. I am all about having hope. Keep doing whatever proves effective for you to reduce symptoms and whatever helps with the management of them. I'm a big believer in CBT, DBT and childhood trauma healing. Know exactly where I came from and it has helped me. Wish you well. We're all lovable.
Mister Sam, thank you. You're probably the best teacher that I've listened to.
This blew my mind. I have thought my ex-husband was a narcissist but after your two videos on covert borderline I now think it’s likely that that’s what he is. The part about these types being emotionally dysregulated and rationalizing their outbursts because of their grandiosity stunned me. That was my ex-husband to a tee! I always felt that he did not understand his emotions. He was like a toddler, he felt things intensely but could never articulate or accurately label his emotions. I always suspected that he did not understand what was behind his outbursts but was too prideful and embarrassed to admit it. I would watch him scramble to come up with a reason (an excuse) as to why he suddenly flipped out or behaved irrationally. It was obvious to me that he simply could not admit that he did not know, that he did not understand his own behaviour. Ultimately, he would blame me, it was always something I said, or did, or did not do, etc.. I always sensed that he felt tremendous shame that he could not control his emotions and desperately wanted to hide this major malfunction. For years I tried so hard to be empathetic and help him with these issues but that just made him hate me. He was a tortured person, deeply unhappy. I had to let him go.
Curious if anyone bothered to test him for ASD - I’ve seen many people who fit the criterion completely transform for the better and experience genuine connection once the partner was aware to not take certain things personally as long as said partner is willing to be reciprocal.
So sorry for both of you and understand how maddening it is to want to help someone who does not want help or even be willing to consider their behavior inappropriate when it causes heartbreak and is so obviously abusive - however like he’s said misery loves company and I prefer stability.
I can completely relate to this.. it’s so painful to watch and yes you have to walk away or you will be destroyed ❤
Thank you Professor Vaknin, a very accurate description of the behavior of my ex non confessed covert borderline girlfriend who is also a therapist which made it very confusing. She wanted to control every aspect of her life, she couldn't be alone, planned months ahead. I went no contact because I couldn't reach her emotionally, very high IQ but when abandonment was perceived she changed into a little child crying and after this her demeanor changed into a very calm destructive person who wanted to destroy me and blamed me for everything what happened. Very disturbing and sad, because I really saw she wanted love but she was not capable of accepting it. Finally a blessing in disguise because it made me aware of my own issues as a co-dependent.
Covert Borderline makes much more sense than quiet Borderline as a bpd guy. I check most if not all the criteria mentioned.
It's the most clear explanation I ever heard, thank you professor Vaknin. I thought my ex was narcissist, but he didn't have all the traits, then I thought he has classical borderline, but again wasn't complete, but this video has all accurate traits. At least now I know. Thank you for your extraordinary work and research.
This 'Covert Borderline Video' I find absolutely fascinating. I feel like I fit into the category of 'Covert Borderline' in many respects that said though, I have never cheated 'always been faithful'. I view this video as a masterpiece.
Oh, trust me. I fully agree that borderline personality disorder is a form of psychopathy. Of course, I may be biased, as I dated several women with this condition...sadly...
I have befriend a person with BPD for many years. I agree that the BPD (at least the one I know ) is exactly as Prof.Vaknin describes them. When one gets on their bad side they can be vindictive, manipulators, and in need of control at all times. One thing I was surprised to hear him say is that “ they adopt a masculine ideology.” This is so spot on! The BPD I know hates men and the men she has dated have always been docile and prone to manipulation.They constantly disassociate and they also dance between “ feeling deeply” (which can be confused with a good trait, such as empathy) to behaving like a narcissist AND a sociopath. What they are really looking for when they act “ empathetic “ is really a need to merge bc they feel empty. They are loners and distrustful of others. Highly insecure with a lack sense of SELF. Ughhhh! They are exhausting to deal with !!!!! 🤦🏼♀️
May the lord of boundaries come down and help me. I hope Professor Vatkin makes a video on how to deal and protect ourselves.
Dissociate. Vaknin.
Dr. Vaknin, I’m a classic borderline who knew a covert borderline. Your description was spot on. So spot on, I actually stood up at the end of the video and applauded. I removed the covert borderline from my life because as they aged, they became very passive aggressive just as you described. The covert borderline I know is in fact very organized and great with people, but they’re still a financial failure. They do work hard and make a lot of friends, but nothing impressive in terms of assets.
Wonderful video.
@@madeleinecrown1596 I really like people who assume someone is not self-reflecting based on a compliment on a video. You must be a special type of genius.
Maybe it’s good for her as well you removed yourself from her life?
It’s not very self reflective to tell that one was all bad and I am all good
The coin got 2 sides but it requires rejecting grandiosity to admit it. I’m far from genius to get this point
Dear professor Sam vaknin
This is so good study you have reached out to the world with. I have been followed you prof.Sam since 2010 and I have bipolar, so I’m one of those who go in 110% to your studies, my friends will mirror you and say “HE IS KIDDING YOU NOT “ I have listen to you for a hour a day and listen when you put together links from all of your work since 2010. This is a whole new level rises up of understanding. Thank you prof.Sam for your hard work, is a feeling of joy to see all of the details in every video from 2010 to this day just falls to place.
Thank you.
I started researching a lot BPD and NPD due to my ex, and my research led me here. I had to end my relationship with my ex because he was exhibiting exactly the behaviour of a covert borderline: extreme paranoia (he would think I'm always cheating, hiding things from him, having manipulative intentions, trying to make him mad on purpose, pure insane ideation) and his entitlement led to extremely controlling behaviour to appease his own fears and insecurities, specifically fear of abandonment and rejection. He started restricting me and criticising me, using the Bible (since he was religious) but then he couldn't live up to the same standards he was applying to me (the rigid rules). Also addicted to alcohol and with no emotional regulation. He would externalise his emotions onto me and blame me and accuse me, and I would act as punching bag. He also triangulated me after I left, fell in love with a new woman in only a month and rubbed her in my face as punishment. Very hard to have a relationship with those people.
I have referred myself as the Dark Triad for many years as I identified with the combination of the 3. But this Covert borderline personality fits me like a glove. Finally after all this time everything within my personality fits.
Btw, it's as close to hell on earth it gets.
@@Rootsman417 why autism ?
@antonioorsini How can I learn more from a dark-triad's pint of view?? All Links/Books by self-diagnosed dark-triads, welcome. Thanks for your post and hope you've found the back door resolution to your hell of coping mechanisms 🙏🏼
It's almost like the psychiatrists who specializes in bpd are walking kn egg shells from us their patients. Like they are scared to say we have secondary psycopathy or we may quit therapy or internalize it. Also, calling us psycopaths can further the stigma, however I want the truth. I definitely act like a psycopath in a bpd rage.Lets look at it honestly.
Makes me think of John 10:12
Any help would be highly appreciated because, as far as I can see, you are the first person that can actually get me and other people like me. One that can see AND understand the complex processes that make someone like me and how does one react due to these processes that come, mostly, from childhood trauma.
I don’t understand all you say, but the person I lived with for 32 years had what I think is BPD. She is not what I would think of as a grand narcissist. She has a great fear of abandonment. She also doesn’t allow me to express myself or be my own person. She wants me to be one with her, and she controls everything, and I mean everything. To others, she seems shy and withdrawn, but she is aggressively controlling when others are not around. She tells me she will kill herself if anything happens to me, yet she treats me with distain, tolling her eyes at me. I left 8 months ago. She still lives in my home and it is a legal battle to sell it. Whew!
All your videos are absolutely incredible! I watch daily and learn so much!
After watching hours and hours of your videos I think I found what I was looking for, I'm almost sure that the girl I'm dating is Covert Borderline, she fits the profile almost perfectly, although sometimes she shows vulnerability and has suicidal ideas that never gets to consolidate. I guess she fluctuates between covert and other subtypes. Professor Vaknin, I wanted to thank you because you clarified the panorama for me, I was going crazy and I was suffering a lot trying to understand what was happening with this girl. I wanted to ask you if there is a bibliography that you can recommend or something because I can't find almost anything about Covert Borderlines on google and youtube apart from what you uploaded and my psychiatrist who was the one who told me that this girl seemed to be Borderline told me that she didn't knows nothing about the Covert Boderlines, so I don't know where to continue learning about it.. Also ask if there is any known treatment or any way to live with people who suffer from this. THANK YOU SO MUCH.
Thank you Dr vaknin. I am a woman but most of the traits you have described for covert borderlines apply on me. I have always knew I have a personality disorder but I did never fit well in classical borderline. Also have narc traits but does not qualify as a actual narc. Narcissistic ppl do find me pretty much likable but once they approach me they are mortified for some reason and they do nit stuck around as long as it takes with classical borderlines. That video was an eye opener.
Half of all narcissists are women.
Professor Vaknin, thank you for this. I believe you described my ex husband including the sadistic triangulation and primary psychopathy that occurred toward the end of our marriage of 32 years. I had endured several infidelities and tumultuous ups and downs but I just could not take any more as he refused to “give up this relationship” with his paramour. He is a family physician who displayed arrogant behavior toward his patients and ended up losing staff and patients over his very public affair and eventually lost his practice but rationalized it as he did the affair and so many of his choices. Could you please provide any insight on healing from these relationships. Is it the same educational advice you have given about narcissistic abuse- like no contact? Should I be concerned about hoovering? Could you expand more on the outcomes of these individuals and any pearls for moving forward from a survivors point of view. I am also a physician and sadly was taught nothing of the nuances of these disorders in med school (DSM III vintage). Thank you for the education. It has been truly eye opening and in many ways validating as to what I experienced physically, emotionally and spiritually.
This is remarkably descriptive of myself, I've had people suggest Cluster B pathologies to me before but I'm a purist. I always hunt down all the information about any particular disorder and it's subtypes and compare them to myself, and they never fit unless they're made so vague that the majority of people would fit the description. Frankly I also have little interest in change outside of gaining more emotional control and will power regarding addictive tendencies.
In particular I had trouble accepting the idea that I could be borderline because I've been intermittently working towards a meditation practice for a while in order to control my widely unstable emotions, but this has had the effect of allowing me to voluntarily, as if flicking a switch, enter a somewhat psychopathic state of mind. A friend of mine has a wife who is classically borderline who reported to me that DBT allowed her to engage her empathy in a more normal manner.
I've not encountered this before in any academic research, mediation practice leading to decrease in empathy. Frankly it's quite pleasant, even if I'm still a long way off from controlling my emotions or addition issues. Is this phenomenon indicative of something more general? It seems unlikely that I'm some special snowflake in this regard.
I’ve talked with a transcendental meditation instructor that said when they doubled the time of their 20 minute-twice daily-meditations, they became a meaner person. Interesting
Definitely me... Does this have anything to do with cluster A personalities? Particularly schizoid? I believe myself to desire love. I am quite rational until I become irrational. Some people deserve it others don't. It usually about love and finding which people fit best for you. Even if you are a covert borderline, would that mean I was born a psychopath first who wants to know what love is? Was I born psychopathic and then borderline? Or was I always a psychopath from the begging. Is it cause I truly lack remorse that I must find someone who has remorse? With love I am calm and happy. Take that away I am cold, calloused, methodical, cunning. Sometimes its not even my fault. People will get me mad it seems I can piss them off alot better than they can piss me off. Why is there dynamic like this. How can someone be good and evil at the same time. How are there two worlds in side of the coin? Why is hate and love so intense. Isnt it better to stay away from intimacy to avoid people you cant trust? Covert borderline is also about self preservation, we are very calcualted and self sufficient people who want love. How do I understand love but feel no empathy. I know who I am yes. But Narcissist, Antisocial, Psychopaths dont have a true self. Is it true that I dont have a true self but yet I can define extremely well what it means to be human and what love is
Well... that described most of my life. Thanks for the label.
You are so amazing at teaching .
Been watching your vids for about a month. My dad's girlfriend has many narcissistic traits. She switches to a psychopathic state when her faults are brought into limelight. She gaslights, rages, throws objects, and malicious. I can't tell you exactly what her disorder is I'm not a therapist. But I can see her switch states of mind. It's some type of defense mechanism or some type of traumatized state.
Dr Vaknin, with the contrast of full spectrum emotions with narcissistic defenses, are covert borderline people able to heal (in the correct therapy or chance setting?)
They have a better prognosis than pure NPD, but there is no such thing as “healing” in any kind of mental illness. “Healing” is a scam.
Part of me is so confused...for starters, I know I have some narc traits that I'm aware of...my father was/is a narc and I know a lot of things have rubbed off onto me...however, I am aware of these things and am making an effort to work/change. I play and record my own music and I guess you could say I'm a handsome dude...according to other people anyway. Am I being a paranoid narc or am I seeing reality when I know for certain people have tried to get into my head and knock me down and get me off focus or get me to doubt myself. What if people ARE actually jealous...or am I delusional? Somedays I do fall into the mindset of blaming others, but only those who tried to get into my head and who did succeed at destroying parts of me and taking my time and making me doubt myself. I know I didn't always handle confrontations rightly, but I guess sometimes I do take things super deeply personal because of how many years I spent screwed up mentally from my father rarely lifting me up or saying anything good or ever giving me credit for something I accomplished...he always had a way of making me feel deeply flawed and sucked the life out of me. In a lot of ways I have been angry at the world, the company that allowed an individual to harass me for six years affecting my health mentally, emotionally, physically....my family for allowing me so much time to myself as a child. I was super neglected emotionally which leads me to anger in present day because I realize my deficiencies because of the neglect/isolation and now that adulthood is getting a bit more pressing I have to overcompensate. Seems every time I opened up my heart just a crack to expose some vulnerability and needed some fucking love, there was some evil person to wound me up worse than I was before or to take advantage of my pain and try to manipulate me. Now after studying things for about 5 years, I do see where I did become grandiose and delusional about my own success and appearance to cover up how godawful I felt inside from the pain. But do true narcs admit this? Am I a narcissist or a victim or both? Somedays i wish I could end it because of how painful it is mentally. The anger toward my parents for putting all their emotional and mental bullshit on me causing me a lifetime of confusion and pain and now it's MY responsibility to fix it. But I know that suicide is not the right path at all and IS extremely and utterly selfish. The hardest part is growing up with such deep dysfunction and all the while thinking I'm in a "Christian" family. I'm not saying God and Jesus aren't the real deal because I have experienced things on a spiritual level that reveal a truth no words can express. Part of my fathers religious fixations screwed me up also. It's like I'm just supposed to go to God with everything but that's not even what the Bible says. We are supposed to be there for one another, grieve with one another. Sometimes all I want is just some fucking physical affeciton...to feel safe for once in my life. Sorry for giving my life story here but...heck...I can't hold this in. I'm just at the point where I realize what you are saying and others who make videos on narcissism and I'm willing to see my own narcissism, but am also wondering if a lot of my issues have stemmed just from being around true narcs? Any support here will be greatly appreciated, thank you.
If you open yourself up and more than likely explained all your weaknesses(not necessarily vulnerabilities) to what you are use to; which are predators of course; they are going to fuck with your head and make you relive your trauma to control and/or break you if you try to resist..LoL! You're paranoia comes from realizing that people like that do exist and in certain environments at a higher rate. Granted you are not totally delusional by being mind fucked half of what you realize 65-70% of time is what is actually going on and 30-35% of the time you are going to misread some shit..LoL! Happens to the best of us. Becareful and aware. Stop telling people how to play mind games with you because most of the time that's all it is. They know how to do that shit because they themselves suffer from the same thing and caculated what to do to you to make themselves feel better as if they are superior to you because they feel little themselves. Stop talking/reacting & watch how they go back to default and you'll see they are just as miserable & for what they really are. To much to explain in detail on youtube comment section, but if in need of assistance we can find other ways/platforms to chat on.
I resonate so much with this. Go well brother.
So, personality disorders are like the wave-particle duality
They are both a particle and a wave at the same time. They operate in one cluster, but can exist within another cluster too.
Kind of like Schrödinger’s cat. Existing in both states
Thank you Prof. Vaknin from the bottom of my heart! I divorced my ex-husband because he is exactly your description and definition of covert borderline but also diagnosed asperger (ASD). I thought he was a combo of autistic with strong narcissism but upon listening to this vid I’m sure he’s covert borderline. Described like his portrait! So glad I left him, although damaged still in one piece.
Doctor Sam, I am very grateful for your pioneering work to say the least. Thank you so much. I am a covert borderline and I have 2 questions, if and when I transition into a primary psychopath permanently, do I still feel fear and anxiety as I was initially covert borderline? Also how do I know when I have fully transitioned into a primary psychopath, will I always be angry? I definitely have intervals of extreme rage when triggered, that's the protector coming out but how will I feel when I fully transitioned permanently? I've been hurt and betrayed by those I loved most, the level of betrayal was very high. I'll spare the you the details of that. I feel quite numb too, I did take anti psychotic drugs and it permanently took away certain emotions and most of my empathy can be numbed if I choose to, numbed in a insipid way rather than in a malignant way. Anyway I would rather be a primary psychopath and not feel anything, so how would I feel doctor, I would be so grateful if you replied
Amazing finally explained!! Thank you Dr, you are truly Genius!!! First Doctor who knows what he’s talking about & explains it soooo Crystal Clear 🎉 Covert Borderline
Dr Vaknin, I find myself mesmerized by your videos. It seems that we know less about our minds then we do about the ocean. I was wondering since a covert borderline is so similar to the narcissist, would the covert borderline be just as attracted and magnetized to a borderline women?
To an overt narcissist, histrionic, or psychopath.
OMG... I stumbled upon this channel. Very insightful. I was married 24 yrs to a covert narcissist. I initiated divorce and caused a narcissistic injury. I had to move 3000 miles to escape his vengeful tactics. Still experiencing his smear campaign and financial abuse to my credit. He’s now on RUclips posing as a narcissist specialist life coach. Unbelievable!! The psychosis of these type of minds is astonishing.
Wow I wonder who it is..😯
@@serenitee8849 Hario
It doesn't matter if he say insightful things . Enough coaches on here say exactly what we want to hear and are still narcissist. It's crazy!
Thank you, Doctor Vaknin - very insightful.
Not sure if I have already replied on this but apparently I have autistic traits, as referred in your very well spoken video here, such as dissecting topics ad nauseum...as a covert borderline. Especially those pertaining to myself.
The paranoia portion in C-Borderline is on point and in congruent with...could you say an "underlay" of a "prosocial" psychopathy gene. Or even a psychopathy gene that had been nurtured. One that could be heightened by childhood abuse or trauma, in the later years to form the Covert Borderline Overlay.
I have family that are malignant narcissist, so overt not covert. We have both psychopathy and schizophrenia on my mother's side. The difference in myself and my 1/2 sibling who is malignant NPD' is he was neglected by my NPD mother and I was around my very loving father in the early stages. However, genetically my brother and I do not share the same father or his good genes.
What do you think makes more of a difference in my diagnosis vs his? It is clear to see how my sibling ended up Malignant NPD with your videos on overlays.
Thanks for the clarity. I can put a little of this paranoia at bay, which is very soothing.
100 % amazing. First time I have listened to your words! Wow I have been saying type b clustered personalitys are one and the same that over lap and Resemble one another. I felt you were talking about my life and my thought patterns (or maybe I am paranoid!! Ha ha). With that said I am not doing well these day's due to the realization that I am going to prison and for a long time over my all in and no Boundaries relationships antics. I hope I am over the dangerous part of things because I was in a bad place recently, mentally. Understanding how I'm able to use empathy has open my eyes up to new possibilities since I could quite put my finger on where it disappeared to at times. I wasn't sure if it really existed. I thought it was there but also thought it was a subconscious way of manipulation. Is there any hope for any kind of treatment that I can change? Something says lobotomy is my only option but in reality I am pretty much f$#@@d. I see why Suicide rates are high in borderline but I think I am so full of grandeur that I could do it. Hope this wasn't inappropriate I dont usually know if things are. I am definitely worn out and even when I know how I think(somewhat)I try to explain this to people how important it is for me to feel appreciate it and valued and loved. I really don't care about anything else and it leaves me open to being used and manipulated by people. I find i seemingly find Narcissistic personalities in my inner circle Which causes a lot of problems. That is the repeat relationship patterns you were talking about i presume. The only reason I have taken a look who and how I think is because I was discarded and it shocked me for more reasons then one. The abandonment issue was definitely difficult but also the feeling that I was out witted and used. I am prepared to get hurt I do expect it but I was totally unaware and blinded by the way I felt important and loved and valued. It was the greatest few months of my life other then 4 years prior and with same person. Both times followed with the worse times of my life.
Dr. Vaknin, this was incredibly on the money. I have felt npd was not the correct diagnosis...Do you think the covert borderline could be created due to long term exposure to classic borderline wife?
No. It is a combination of genetics and brain abnormalities exposed to childhood abuse and trauma.
that. was. incredible.
Happy New Year, Sam and just a short question: I've been studying your material for just over a year now and I'm pretty sure my ex-partner was a Covert borderline. Does it make any sense to tell him or should I not?
Refer him to the playlist. You are not qualified to diagnose.
Wow, I didn't really expect to get an answer from you! Thanks a lot, I'm very grateful.😌 Yes, of course, I know I'm not qualified to make any diagnose. The only question that bothered me was morally whether I had an obligation to disclose my suspicions, or whether it might be better for someone with such a severe disorder not to know because there is little help available anyway. Thanks a lot for your brillant work. @@samvaknin
thanks for the video.
Please would you consider this scenario : suppose you can only choose between overt Narc and covert Borderline in the person you are speaking to.
You are speaking to your friend(in private) about a muscle exercice, about a very recent information about subdivision of a division of muscle and how each grip type target a part. Suddenly he explode saying that he already know that because of experience(falsely because what he said after is bullshit). Then, he start telling you in a very agressive way did you remember how i was doing this here, that here...
Can a covert borderline do that or it seem very very narcissitic ?😂😂😂
Notice sometimes i'm speaking about something, he attribute that to himself even if he does not know about that but what seem so interesting is the way HE BELIEVE that, you can not say he's lying(i think his body would not show any lying sign 😂)
I am sure I am a secondary psychopath. I can see myself when you talk about classic overt borderline women. I am neurotic and broken. I've scared many men but not been violent towards anyone. Self-defeating, self-trashy, I've done that. I am not good with intimacy or relationships. Can I change that?
DBT.
Thank you so much for your videos. Is it possible for someone to be covert borderline and covert narcissist co-morbidly?
Yes, it is.
An interesting video would be two covert boarderlines in a relationship of any kind, but more so a romantic one.
Thank you, that description of a personality disorder "smoothie" answers a lot of questions for me..
I've always wondered why would someone so grandiose and entitled and has the typical relationship vicious cycle, cry with a little boy he found crying when he got lost in the crowd, buy street animals food and really adore children ?
הרצאה מרתקת! תודה רבה!
Good evening,
"He s socialy charming, he s charsismatic ..." so why is it difficult than to find new people to connect, new partners?
How does he 'pick' his partners? Emotional as 'being in love, in need of care, etcetera or as supply in she's rich, good looking, good status, whatever
Thans for respons, grt Jasmine
When it comes to mate selection, the covert borderline is a cross between a grandiose borderline and an overt narcissist.
Wow. I feel so exposed but I'm happy to know more about myself. I have CPTSD as well. Is there any form of treatment that's shown to be effective for covert borderlines?
DBT should be effective because, like secondary psychopaths, they have access to empathy and to positive emotions.
@@samvaknin thank you for your prompt response!
With these added categories coupled with your idea of the spectrum, doesn't almost everyone fit within these categories, over, covert, borderline, narcissist, and even psychopath?
Watch my recent vid on this topic.
Yes they do! All things subject to perception; and so into the void we fall!
Is it possible for a classic borderline to transition into covert boerderline? Because I am seeing some things like paranoia in a classic borderline.
So this is why I have so much road rage recently. Thanks.
Genial!!!👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 thank you Dr. Vaknin!!
Hi Sam!! There are some academics who claim that peers and friends also collaborate in the formation of the self in the child and youth age. Furmann and Buhrmester, for example, noted the important role that peers and friends play in self-esteem. Parker and Gottman have studied the power of integration of emotions, self-knowledge and self-control. could there be a "second chance" for traumatised children and adolescent? could this be found in the "act" of creating/building friendships? thanks. Love your videos.
I mention peers and peer support networks repeatedly as you would have noticed had you actually listened to my videos.
@@samvaknin You are the most compelling, fascinating man I have ever listened to. I love your replies as much as your videos. Thanks for all the info. I have never heard anyone explain the BPD experience so perfectly. I may be crazy but it's real crazy, not imagined.
Fascinating video. Thank you Prof. Vaknin as always. Question for you: is it possible to differentiate between a covert borderline and someone who is perpetrating reactive abuse due to exposure to an NPD or BPD partner? Would you only look at when the behaviors began? Or are there qualitative differences between the two?
Are empaths really covert narcissist with a savior complex ?
Is a covert borderline capable of attracting and keeping an inverted narcissist?
Yes. She would be responsive to his grandiosity and psychopathic traits.
Hi Dr. Vaknin,
In response to your feedback I find myself here and agree with your assessment. I am definitely BL and I believe Covert is the ideal fit, yet I am not a man. My comment is that although there is no doubt about the CBL and by-the-way I agree it is trauma based, I still display some distinctive traits of the Classic that are not shared with the Covert, while never approaching the Classic's cyclonic mental state. As a female CBL, I share some secondary traits with the Classic and lack some secondary traits of the Covert. Is this your experience of female CBLs?
It is a new suggested diagnosis. I am still not sure whether there is type constancy (back and forth between classic and covert) or even - like in narcissism - both covert and overt state manifest in every borderline (switching into covert or secondary psychopathy under stress).
@@samvaknin If I was to call it, I'd say it is the latter, because I am conscious of possessing some traits of both, with the CBL being the dominant self (a Classic with functional self-control and self-reflection?), regardless of my stress level and I'm always cognizant to attempt to sort out the emotional storm before responding, but I rarely succeed. I have trouble telling the difference between the more subtle emojis, so don't use them and if others send them to me I need my daughter to verify the depicted emotion, if it is more than just a smile. I am also acutely conscious of the need to fight off my impulsivity, keeping it tightly underwraps, even taking steps to make it impossible to act out or be impulsive in order to save face. Between the ages of 4 and 8 I intentionally stopped speaking, because I deemed my responses were always incorrect. Incidentally, I could not learn to read during those years, but accomplished the task immediately after I began to speak again. Saving face is important, paramount. I think by doing so, I imagine I hide my damage. -- I hope that this is helpful as I'd like to return the favour and I wanted to thank you for your time and insight. I have found it freeing. I will continue to inform myself, but not take up any more of your time, if I can help it. I would have loved to take your classes when I was doing my psych. I might not have switched to philosophy.
57:16 Found the answer here for my question, where the fundamental similarity lies betwenn CoBPD and HPD.
Can you inflict narcissistic abuse from a Npd parent to a Covert borderline child or he is immunue?
If that happens, would he rather become a pure classic borderline, or would he stay Covert borderline with some caracteristic of cptsd?
Children cannot be diagnosed with covert borderline or with NPD.
@@samvaknin Technically all children are narcissist so MB.
Let's suppose the Covert B. is 19 year Old.
Sam, is it possible that a Covert Borderline, as the covert narcissist does, tells you "you've changed, your not the same as you were at the beginning"?
All types of narcissists say this, not only the covert.
But the question was whether CB does the same..
Can a person also be in the middle of a covert and a classic borderliner or have traits of both types?
No.
How can we tell the difference between a covert borderline and a classic borderline in a secondary psychopathic state ?
Covert borderlines are narcissistic, not psychopathic.
Don't you think if a person like myself had low self esteem all most of all of my life because I was a nothing from early childhood n as an adult became aware of the many things I could achieve n as a result learned to love myself n when ever I could share that love with others. Is there something wrong with that
I feel this 🙏
does your book malignant self love talk about the covert borderline?
No. It is a new diagnosis which I came up with recently.
I have been described perfectly in the 2nd video series of odd couples as covert borderline. I am interested what would be the diffirential criteria between a counter-dependandt DPD and a covert borderline?
Hello Dr Vaknin,
Thank you for this information and for providing ad-free videos! Can you please clarify - does the covert borderline engage his partner in a shared fantasy? Or is that specific to the narcissist? Thank you.
All cluster B personality disordered create shared fantasies.
@@samvaknin Thank you so much for clarifying. Your description here of the covert borderline is the first that makes 100% sense. I wish I could help him, it’s heartbreaking.
Thank you for the content, Dr. Vaknin. I find these lectures on Covert Borderlines the most informative sources available online.
Question about this specific subject material: apparently, there are 4 types of Borderline personality variants classified by psychologists. Where would the characteristics of the covert borderline fit within those 4 subtypes?
Clarification or additional insight would be much appreciated! Thank you for your work.
These 4 types are not accepted or recognized by the academic committee or the DSM. There are many typologies of Borderline (for example, Theodore Millon’s) but they are speculative, anecdotal, and not supported by evidence or studies.
@@samvaknin thanks for the clarification Dr. Vaknin!
Dr. Vaknin: Can cold therapy help in a relationship between a covert borderline male and an inverted narcissist/borderline/codependent/ dependent personality disordered female? Is there any hope that we can have a lasting relationship or marriage without destroying each other? He is divorced after 30 years of marriage, I'm a Widow from a 33 year marriage. If there is hope, Is there anyone else trained in cold therapy that we could see? Thank you for reading and answering my long question!!!
Cold therapy is exclusively for narcissists or for patients with major depressive illnesses.
@@samvaknin Thank you for clearing that up for me!
Meatloaf's "I Would do Anything for Love" could be the covert borderline's theme tune... but he would do that.
Thank you very much for your clear video's. I just came out of a very chaotic relationship with a woman and I was trying to make sense of what happend. She actually used some of the words that you used to explain the covert borderline. It was a rollercoaster ride (she said a relationship with her is a rollercoaster ride), with her seeking attention all the time, incredible knowledge, histrionic, no empathy, ego centered, no intimacy, very chaotic, risk seeking, no fear, violent, easily angered or upset , no shame, very sexy and promiscuous with many male friends,(but I could not have female friends). Dabbled in SM sex and was proud of it. She cheated many time on her married partner again no shame, but did not want that life again she told me. When I broke up with her she said her life is in shambles, her emotions where all over the place and now she is trying to reel me back in.
Wondering if Bio Feedback would help with their trauma!
No. All these hyped body-based techniques are short-term placebos.
100 per cent. Especially the cynical withdrawal
You are spot on. I only listen to you know, others don’t have the knowledge that you do. Can you see any of these things on MRI or MRA of the brain? She had what’s known as a medusa in the right frontal lobe and a cyst in the posterior fossa, with flares.
Would covert characteristics be considered introverted and overt extroverted?
Not necessarily. Covert narcissists can be extroverted.
@@samvaknin Would you expand upon how an overt borderline can become a covert borderline via psychopathic self state.
This is exactly how it feels
Will cover borderline test/ probe potential partner ? Thank you, in advance
Covert. Yes.
@@samvaknin Спасибоо, профессор!
Isn't fear of shame a usual feeling of a narcissist? So if they hurt someone and this fact becomes known to public they feel shame. Don't they try to be nice guys to avoid shame?
Watch the vids about mortification.
My daughters father - thankyou very much for this down to the microdot information - Can they co-parent??? No i doubt it
Could we consider covert borderline being high-functional borderline ? and classical then being low-functional ?
Most covert borderlines are high-functioning. But many classic borderlines are also high-functioning. So, we cannot use this in a differential diagnosis.
@@samvaknin Many thanks for your answer. I found your presentation exceptional, having some experiences with a cover borderline, it is 99,9% "as is". Could I translate it in Russian and put on RUclips ? It will be just my translation-audio on your audio (speaking) ?
@@k.c2145 You do not need my permission for any non-commercial use of my videos. Go ahead with my gratitude.
@@samvaknin Many thanks
Is EMDR therapy that is geared toward PTSD and C-PTSD helps in this disorder.
Watch the therapies playlist.
What’s the safest way to cut a covert borderline out of your life?
Tell him her that you are Not good enough for him her and leave . I wouldn't hold you 😅
What can a covert borderline do to mitigate their grandiose behavior?
Therapy can modify behaviors but not the underlying grandiosity.
I apologize I meant to hit the “like” button lol
Would a borderline be attracted to a covert borderline?
Yes.
She's a covert borderline...
I'm a female ....but i have all the characteristics of covert borderline personality!!!
Interesting.
Can you please comment on Amber Heard and Johnny Depp trial. She had a diagnosis of boarderline…
During covid pandemia i can see many many borderline around.. maybe more noisy than narcisistic types.. 😂
19:55 ❤
oh damn, that sounds a bit like me