PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE COMMENTING. So Book 4 came out, and contrary to what many of us hoped, we didn't get the MLM representation we would have liked. It was still a delightful season and I enjoyed it. PLEASE REFRAIN from dropping snarky, mean-spirited, or otherwise unkind comments pointing out how this video "got it wrong." I made this video because it's a topic that is important to me personally, and the discourse surrounding Infinity Train at the time gave me a platform to discuss something that I care about, and in a relative amount of depth. I am not going to delete or de-list this video. At the end of the day, Min and Ryan were just a catalyst for me to discuss the broader topic and the recent history of LGBTQ+ representation in cartoons. I don't want to turn comments off for this video, because there are still so many wonderful responses I got to this video that make doing what I do worthwhile
@@petscopkid me too friend, me too. I will make a video about Book 4, and will unpack why I think their relationship is more than platonic in as much detail as I can
Honestly the only thing that really points to them maybe being gay is how Ryan (I think it was Ryan) Blushing after min hugs him. And how every relationship Ryan had was with a female but each one never worked out
I have a bunch of theories. It’s either an unhealthy co-dependent relationship, a one-sided romance, or they both have feelings for each other but won’t admit it.
When I first saw the trailer I thought it was going to be another depressing one where Min-Gi and Ryan had to come to terms with unresolvable issues with their relationship and part ways but damn I like option three a lot better and there’s lots of evidence for it!
god i really hope it's not the 2nd one, one-sided feelings make me so sad lol. on the other hand, i really hope they don't end up parting ways because that would be equally painful, but the trailer really emphasized that even with their problems, they want to be together so i don't think that's it.
It’s gotta be one of those I’m hopping that is not an unhealthy relationship dynamic. My hope is they both have feelings for each other but don’t want to admit it. Since it seems like this book is a prequel it would make sense for them to hide their feelings given the time period of ppl are correct about that. Also they probably don’t want to potential ruin their friendship by admitting their feelings for each other
I have two theories for this book: 1. They have feelings for eachother, and neither of them want to admit it in fear of destroying the friendship. That could've been why they sound a little nervous when they say "best friends", kind of like they want it to be something more but are afraid to move forward. 2. They're drifting away from eachother and don't want to admit it. This could also be a reason why they sound a little nervous when they say "best friends", like they want to pretend everything is fine and not acknowledge that they're drifting apart.
These are both really well-considered ideas, either could be totally possible. From what Owen Dennis has said thus far, this season is going to be lighter in tone than previous seasons were, which has me thinking no.1 is more likely than no.2, but it's all about execution
I want it to be number 1 more than number 2. I really hope it’s number 1 and they both eventually get together in the season. Either one could happen I’m hoping for number 1 with a happy ending. Also I love your profile picture
I really want them to be gay. We really deserve some MLM characters I mean I love all lesbians but in some how the creators of various shows are forgetting about gay men and we have to fight and ask them to give us content about this, not all world is lesbian. So I really wish Inifnity Train does that (
@@boywithnoname4079 but then that's just giving the reason to the straight people. Just imagine putting more WLW représentation just cuz is more acceptable cuz is fetishized for straight man. Then why is the Lgbtq figth for? Wr have the représentation for.us or.for them to like us?
I'm pretty happy how Infinity Train could do something a bit more original with representing mlm protagonists in a modern cartoon, rather than going with the wlw protagonist route, which gets so much more representation than mlm does (in modern-day cartoons). Don't get me wrong, wlw representation is important, but people are forgetting mlm relationships need good representation too. Also I really hope one of them is confirmed bi, because we SERIOUSLY need to normalize men being bisexual
I agree there needs to be better representation across the board but especially for mlm. We have gotten more wlm representation witch is great but there should be representation for different relationships that can happen with LGBTQ+ ppl. You don’t want to forget a portion of ppl in the group that are also super important
w/w relationships tend to be less shocking for the heterosexual male audience, and thus less probable to cause a riot about it. That being said, I'd actually like these both to be just friends. Friendship itself doesn't get much attention either. Normally it's something it exists in the world, but nothing they give much deepness about, and it saddens me sometimes. But it'll be fine for me no matter which route they decide to take.
@@bv0804 I know there's a playlist on Spotify which you can find here open.spotify.com/playlist/6G7Q2b8SPcKO2qNcZv59pW but I don't know about a soundtrack, like an OST
I told my friends that they were actually lovers and my friends don't think so, but my gut feeling just say that they either love each other in a romantic way or the problem is because one of them don't want to follow the singer career, or maybe it is both
@@BradySpector do you wanna type it up again? I saw a preview of it and wanted to read it properly. I set the video to "hold potentially inappropriate comments" but nothing in the preview of the comment seemed rude or inappropriate. RUclips is just being WEIRD
What if only one of them is gay and that character told the other that they liked them. Witch became very awkward. And they have to overcome this to continue being friends without one of there feelings to hurt their relationship
I think the season was well in progress when it was confirmed that the show was canceled and that’s why we are getting the 4th season. I do hope they went full gay with this season
I really really hope we get a gay love story. Knowing how much historical and political context they crammed into Amelia’s short backstory, the fact that this book seems to be set in 80s america at the height of homophobia surrounding the aids pandemic it makes it seem like they’re setting it up for some kind of gay story. It’d make a lot of sense in that setting that their issue might be closeted feelings for each other they don’t want to accept because of homophobia. Plus more rep for gay men in animation is always great
Though they're not in love as far as we know, I still love their dynamic, love the fact that they're Asian but raised in North America (like myself), and that they cry and hug, despite the fact that guys are typically told not to. Just little things that make me love this book so much
i'm really hoping too that this new book explores that possibility! Especially because Owen Dennis (creator of Infinity Train) has made different statements on this season trying something pretty different from other seasons and that 'they hope it comes as a pleasant surprise to most fans', and like god i hope that means LGBT representation
I'm still so surprised (in a good way) how many people have commented just to say how exciting it would be to see that kind of relationship!! I really hope it happens
Even when we didn't get explicit mlm rep, it's OBVIOUS they're gay for each other. This video is really awesome and each time I see it it gets better and better. Now that we have more to analyze, I think we got a lot more clues that tell us a cool story. Also, Min saying he "has bad thoughts all the time" and seeing all of Ryan's past relationships with women fail, but still keep thinking about MIn all the time... You definetly were onto something in this video and I still love it.
Absolutely criminal that you don’t have way more subscribers - Amazing analysis around queer representation in media and how the “one gay character” in many shows coming out right now is integral to building onto positive associations later (maybe even inspiring other shows like She-Ra). Infinity Train has had one of the best interpretations of a non-binary character, Lake, and I would be over the moon to see more incredible writing and LGBTQ+ characters and their issues! Makes me so happy to see myself in media like I couldn’t when I was younger.
I'm really happy you enjoyed my video! It's all developmental--if creators can prove to studio figureheads that LGBTQ+ representation isn't an instant death wish for their series, the studios will allow people to be increasingly bold with that representation
in the animation of recent times, the lgbt + characters have been mostly women because they are better lived on a social level and i entered the television audience, but in the case of two gay men in a series transmitted by a children's channel, that is when the controversy begins, if in infinity train they can put two male protagonists, in a romantic relationship, it is because the series is on hbo max, since channels such as the cartoon network would not allow it, they had a good progress with the relationship of ruby and sapphire (characters from steven universe who look like women, although they are not gender), but when it comes to two boys it is different, usually for the worse, because of people with a retrograde / closed mentality or parents who recently worry about what their children see on tv, when a few decades ago no, for example cartoon network (a children's channel), it broadcast adolt suin, which had content not suitable for minors, but people get angry by representation, as if it was the same.
I have never even watched this show, but I watched the whole thing and now I'm excited to watch the show. You make such high quality videos its awesome!
@@ordinarygamer2655 no? Not sure where you got that idea. This was a really well done video by someone I’m subscribed to and if they enjoy it then I probably would too. That’s all
@@ordinarygamer2655 try reading the comment again. I’m praising the quality of video and because the creator enjoys the show, I think I might enjoy it too. Plus the clips I saw look intriguing to me. Idk why you felt the need to bring this up in the first place though but thanks
I found more meaning for 202 -The meaning of 202 when it comes to Love. The message of the angel number 202 is to listen to your heart. ... You cannot regret something that's made out of love. Be open to the gifts and blessings that this love will bring into your life because they will make you a much better person. And -Being associated with Venus, the planet that essentially represents love and sexuality, number 202 is a good omen for love. To people whom angels send number 202 love comes in unexpected places and moments. The true love often happens only in times we do not seek for it or force ourselves to find it.
I already talked to my friends of all the ways that this season could go in my point of view: -maybe one of them gets out of the train before the other kinda like Jesse, you can see ryan's number going down and the door opens, probably min would have more things to work on. -they end up together, we see tensión between them but we don't know what kind of tensión. -they drift away in good terms, over the time they started to fell apart, the tensión that we see could be this. -they drift away in bad terms, *coff coff Simon and Grace coff coff* -one of them dies maybe trying to protect the other. idk I really look forward to a mlm couple in the show, I'm checking other options and not treating it like canon so I don't get disappointed.
Since I saw the trailer, I could tell that their relationship is much more than friendship, it seems that they appreciate each other but there is something that without a doubt they are avoiding, which makes there a certain tension (romantic? platonic?) As I see it, It seems that without a doubt they like each other or one of them likes the other, but they do not admit it because being friends from childhood there is confusion or fear, because it could be like that unattainable or impossible love. So they just ignore it which makes them distance themselves and their relationship is at risk, I just hope that this season does not make me cry like the previous one and that those two come out alive and together from that train, of course reinforcing their relationship, it would be a great opportunity to be a canonical couple, infinity train has had some memorable characters each with a unique development. Whatever happens between the two of them, I know it's going to see a lot of drama about it.
All I see in the comments is people trying to deny them being gay. Anyone could be gay. Relationships are diverse, and they need to be represented to confront stereotypes. We don't get to see male gay characters as protagonists that often, facing issues in their relationships and I realy hope the show takes this chance to show us this.
There are some comments which I did have to remove because they were so unpleasant. I'm really happy I've had so many comments like this one, comments that see what I saw and understand why it's important. Thanks for commenting and making my day better!
Well... Since this story probably takes place around the 1980's, it'll be quite the bumpy road for em' for a few years, when they get off the train together...
that might definitely be part of their relationship that they need to fix! one or both of them may have internalized homophobia that was forced into them from the stigma during that time period, and the main arc may be them having to get over that.
Your video is so well edited, I love how far in depth you went into this especially with the Steven Universe section. Representation does matter, hopefully we get more of it in the future. Great video keep up the awesome work!!!
Too bad we didn’t get the representation but I think we all know that they are gay lol. But besides that I really liked this video. It shows how important representation is and how it can change the world to be a more excepting place.
I’m literally just finished watching season four about three minutes ago oh my god they did representation right, that’s what I’ll tell you it’s not what you expect but they did it right and you can tell that there is romance
I did really enjoy Min and Ryan's dynamic. I agree there's definitely romance, and I'll unpack that in a later video, although it would have been nice to see something a little more overt, but that's just me. I also very much appreciated that they didn't leave the cultural aspect unspoken
given that lake reads to me, a nonbinary person, as well as other trans people i know as a strong nonbinary and trans parallel, i would definitely not be surprised if the show had these two be at least implicitly romantic. the people working on infinity train do seem to care a lot about its representation even though they're still working under the potential of being censored and all that.
And if not mistaken, a crewmember said that the two cops (Mace and Sieve) where a cuple. also in the crew book that owen dennis got from the crew, there was some story board art of the two of the dancing and of them was Sieve kissing Mace in the neck.
I don't think they're gay. I mean just because they're friends doesn't automatically make them gay. they're in a band so I believe they have to work hard as a team as well work on they're trust issues or else the band will break apart. but if they are gay that's cool too.
Don't forget, they've already shown an LGBTQ representation in the show. Lake is literally non-binary and they leave the train together with Jesse. So having more representation in the show wouldn't be completely different from what we've already seen
Tbh I feel like, while they weren't able to make it explicit, the intention is certainly there. I'm guessing the romance arc got turned down, possibly due to the sexualization of mlm, but the subtext is rather apparent, just like with lake in book 2
is anyone gonna talk about how theyre wearing an outfit like amelia’s? did all old train passengers have to wear costumes like that until she took over as the false conductor?
presumably so! It certainly legitimizes the widely-held belief that this series takes place in the past (the 80s or 90s seem to be the popular decades)
@@smashlimeblogspot1 I did! Thank you, I'm glad you like them! All the drawings and animatics are all done by me, I post art sometimes on our Instagram c:
As much as I’d love mlm (what I’m presuming means Male Loves Male) to be incorporated into the show I doubt that’ll happen, not to say it doesn’t have a decent chance on happening but it’s just my personal thoughts.
that's fair enough! honestly I just wanted to use the opportunity talk a little about the recent history of representation and the context surrounding it
@@CurmudgeonMedia It is good enough that from my understanding Disney green light season 2 before airing episode 1 of it. Also it's cute with some gay stuff in there (Forgot to add. Some people like episode 1 others it takes episode 2 to see where the show shines)
While I would love to see the 2 leads be in a relationship. I'm not getting that vibe from the trailer. To me the storyline seems more like "Long time friends who start to drift apart." I would be very glad to be proven wrong. But we'll have to wait and see
Dude, I just want books 5 through 8 because they wanted 8 books. (Because 8 on its side is the infinity symbol ♾) Infinity train is my #1 favorite show and after this comes out, I’m boycotting CN.
It'll be curious to see if Infinity Train will return in the future like Samurai Jack did, and with a more mature tone. We know for sure that Owen Dennis would love to write the series for an adult audience
thanks so much for the kind words! we're trying to build a little community, and we hope you subscribe for more stuff c: we're putting a discord together as well!
4:57 I'm italian and when the episode when Ruby asked to Sapphire to marry her,in the Italian dub she says:"Sapphire...do you want to be with me?" Like they weren't been lovers. But,fortunately,their kiss they didn't censor it.
Even if we didn't got what we wanted this is still an amazing video that talks about a very important topic. Hopefully on the future we'll get the representation we wanted
HEY HI YOU MAKE VERY HIGH-QUALITY AND ENTERTAINING VIDEOS!!! YOU ARE CRIMINALLY UNDERATED AND IM HERE TO OFFER MY SUPPORT BY SUBSCRIBING!! And hopefully this doesn't come off as weird but!!! Your voice in general feels very natural and nice to listen to for extended periods of time and I thought that was neat :o!!!
To me its hinted to them being brothers rather than anything else, maybe twins, giving them the same number (obv not identical twins). The "tension" you mention could just be them trying to say that they're perfectly fine in their relationship as brothers, but not as friends.
@@CurmudgeonMedia I didn't know they were name dropped so I guess I was wrong, or someone was adopted and keeping their last name. Either way, that does put your opinion at a greater advantage than mine.
So they're not gay. That's fine. Had they been gay, that would have been fine too. We still have gay dudes in Kipo and other shows, and I'm sure there will be more down the line. However, I wish people would stop shipping characters just because they looked at each other, and then get mad when their ship doesn't happen. This applies to all kinds of ships and not just gay ones.
not sure if anyone is mad specifically, although I've not paid too much attention to Twitter since the season dropped. As for myself, I enjoyed book 4, and I'll be making a video about it as and when. I'm glad I made this video because I wanted to take the opportunity to talk about a topic that matters to me
Catradora is meh... i mean i get why its important to so many people as it was their first contact with a gay main couple in a cartoon being so important but it is not without its shortcomings
You're totally right, it's important to include when discussing this topic, but there were certainly aspects that could have been handled better. Noelle Stevenson is clearly super talented though, and I believe She-Ra was their first experience helming a show, let alone of that scale
@@numnuts241 thought it was a wonderful series all in all. I'll definitely make a review, because there's a lot to be said in relation to this being "the last series," etc. The fact the characters didn't turn out to be romantically involved doesn't affect my opinion of the series. Like I say in my other speculation video, I was always down for whatever Owen Dennis had in store because he's a great showrunner. I am going to keep this video up though, because the primary purpose for this video was to explore the recent history of the discourse, and (as the title says) why it's important. The possibility of there being a romance really was just my window into talking about a topic I'm passionate about. If I get too many "ha ha they turned out to not be gay" comments, I may pin a comment explaining this aha I will also say that I still think the characters were heavily coded as romantically interested in one another, which I may explore whenever I make a review
Sugar didn't have great representation, for every moment that was good there were thousands more that were awful, harmful, tone deaf, or offensive. As hundreds of lgbt, people of color, and other marginalized groups have torn apart SU in countless essays, posts, videos, etc. The stuff with pearl lusting after pink and never getting over pink's death, aka the person pearl was given to as a slave. Not to mention most of the time the actual gay characters ruby and sapphire are shoved into a closet, and reduced to a character that does nothing but give exposition on fusion or whatever. (Edit: Not to mention you see many instances in the series where gems fuse for reasons that aren't romantic or important to a relationship, but just used to help fight a monster or move the plot. So not every fusion is a "carefully thought out relationship".) Not to mention every single lgbt character (except a one off character) in the show is either an alien or a fusion in a story where humans are present. I'll let you figure out why reducing all lgbt characters to aliens in a story where humans exists is problematic. There are many more issues with SU's bad lgbt, mental health, and racial representation. But I'm just talking about the lgbt stuff, so if you want to educate yourself on all of SU's other issues, then go read/watch the hundreds of essays, posts, videos, etc that lgbt people, people of color, and other marginalized groups have torn the show apart for.
This isn't great representation, infinity train is on an american exclusive steaming service. You want good representation have it not be on a country specific streaming service. Have it not be on a streaming service, have it be on actual tv. Foreign countries, and conservative parents in the US can easily deny lgbt content in streaming services, or up the age rating to adult/mature. Parents can chose to avoid the service or block the shows in question. With a show that is on air they can't do that as easily, when lgbt stuff comes into the show they aren't going to know that ahead of time, because it wasn't all dropped at once. So the show can still air uncensored for a while in those places.
She-ra was enemies to lovers, however it was done in a really toxic way. Catra tried to harm, maim, and kill both Adora and her friends at every opportunity she got, just to one up Adora because she had issues.
Excuse the lateness, but it being a kids show is EXACTLY why people care. I assume you watched the video, so you probably heard about seeing yourself in media and having positive representation for giving positive and humanizing connotations in media as well as giving queer kids a positive example of strong and happy role models. There is so so few and we want more. Sorry if that sounded rude, but if you are still asking I recommend rewatching the video :) (also I would argue this is a early teenager show, it's a little more mature/dark/heavy than the average "kids" show)
PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE COMMENTING.
So Book 4 came out, and contrary to what many of us hoped, we didn't get the MLM representation we would have liked. It was still a delightful season and I enjoyed it. PLEASE REFRAIN from dropping snarky, mean-spirited, or otherwise unkind comments pointing out how this video "got it wrong." I made this video because it's a topic that is important to me personally, and the discourse surrounding Infinity Train at the time gave me a platform to discuss something that I care about, and in a relative amount of depth.
I am not going to delete or de-list this video. At the end of the day, Min and Ryan were just a catalyst for me to discuss the broader topic and the recent history of LGBTQ+ representation in cartoons.
I don't want to turn comments off for this video, because there are still so many wonderful responses I got to this video that make doing what I do worthwhile
Because of your video I got my hopes up. I wish I didn't but what else would I have expected
Although they weren’t really canon, I still kinda think they’re gay for each other, but those are just my thoughts
@@petscopkid me too friend, me too. I will make a video about Book 4, and will unpack why I think their relationship is more than platonic in as much detail as I can
Honestly the only thing that really points to them maybe being gay is how Ryan (I think it was Ryan) Blushing after min hugs him. And how every relationship Ryan had was with a female but each one never worked out
@@ArtymationsKiba there is a little more to it, but I'll go over it in detail when I make a video :)
I have a bunch of theories. It’s either an unhealthy co-dependent relationship, a one-sided romance, or they both have feelings for each other but won’t admit it.
Though I’m really hoping it’s the third one. Fingers crossed 🤞🏼🤞🏼
When I first saw the trailer I thought it was going to be another depressing one where Min-Gi and Ryan had to come to terms with unresolvable issues with their relationship and part ways but damn I like option three a lot better and there’s lots of evidence for it!
god i really hope it's not the 2nd one, one-sided feelings make me so sad lol. on the other hand, i really hope they don't end up parting ways because that would be equally painful, but the trailer really emphasized that even with their problems, they want to be together so i don't think that's it.
It’s gotta be one of those I’m hopping that is not an unhealthy relationship dynamic. My hope is they both have feelings for each other but don’t want to admit it. Since it seems like this book is a prequel it would make sense for them to hide their feelings given the time period of ppl are correct about that. Also they probably don’t want to potential ruin their friendship by admitting their feelings for each other
Or just not
I have two theories for this book:
1. They have feelings for eachother, and neither of them want to admit it in fear of destroying the friendship. That could've been why they sound a little nervous when they say "best friends", kind of like they want it to be something more but are afraid to move forward.
2. They're drifting away from eachother and don't want to admit it. This could also be a reason why they sound a little nervous when they say "best friends", like they want to pretend everything is fine and not acknowledge that they're drifting apart.
These are both really well-considered ideas, either could be totally possible. From what Owen Dennis has said thus far, this season is going to be lighter in tone than previous seasons were, which has me thinking no.1 is more likely than no.2, but it's all about execution
I want it to be number 1 more than number 2. I really hope it’s number 1 and they both eventually get together in the season. Either one could happen I’m hoping for number 1 with a happy ending. Also I love your profile picture
I really want them to be gay.
We really deserve some MLM characters I mean I love all lesbians but in some how the creators of various shows are forgetting about gay men and we have to fight and ask them to give us content about this, not all world is lesbian.
So I really wish Inifnity Train does that (
AND the rest of the men in the LGBTQ community
That's because wlw are fetishist by straight man. It's not getting so much homophobia as a mlm couple would've...
@@boywithnoname4079 but then that's just giving the reason to the straight people. Just imagine putting more WLW représentation just cuz is more acceptable cuz is fetishized for straight man. Then why is the Lgbtq figth for? Wr have the représentation for.us or.for them to like us?
@@brandoncold1027 Yup I agree and also find it disgusting but the problem is that in storytelling money comes first :/
I'm pretty happy how Infinity Train could do something a bit more original with representing mlm protagonists in a modern cartoon, rather than going with the wlw protagonist route, which gets so much more representation than mlm does (in modern-day cartoons). Don't get me wrong, wlw representation is important, but people are forgetting mlm relationships need good representation too.
Also I really hope one of them is confirmed bi, because we SERIOUSLY need to normalize men being bisexual
weird tangent but I always wished that animated adaptations of John Constantine had explored his bisexuality more
I have thought the same thing I'm a lesbian but I was always a bit disappointed to never see mlm represented.
Honestly Min is giving bisexual vibes and I agree we need more mlm representation in media
I agree there needs to be better representation across the board but especially for mlm. We have gotten more wlm representation witch is great but there should be representation for different relationships that can happen with LGBTQ+ ppl. You don’t want to forget a portion of ppl in the group that are also super important
w/w relationships tend to be less shocking for the heterosexual male audience, and thus less probable to cause a riot about it.
That being said, I'd actually like these both to be just friends. Friendship itself doesn't get much attention either. Normally it's something it exists in the world, but nothing they give much deepness about, and it saddens me sometimes. But it'll be fine for me no matter which route they decide to take.
In the leaked book four soundtrack, so much of the songs were romantic ones!(and most having no specific pronouns as well!!)
I didn't know that! That's gotta be a sign, SURELY
Where can this leaked soundtrack be found? This sounds interesting.
@@NymphaeumVA same I would like to know 😞
I hear that before but...WHERE IS IT?!
I need to find the soundtrack please ;-;
@@bv0804 I know there's a playlist on Spotify which you can find here open.spotify.com/playlist/6G7Q2b8SPcKO2qNcZv59pW but I don't know about a soundtrack, like an OST
I told my friends that they were actually lovers and my friends don't think so, but my gut feeling just say that they either love each other in a romantic way or the problem is because one of them don't want to follow the singer career, or maybe it is both
Yeah that's an interesting interpretation also! They both seem so enthusiastic about the music career though
@@CurmudgeonMedia yup, but my lgbt brain can't stop thinking they will be lovers, idk I felt that, I'm so excited for the book 4
If they were a boy and a girl people would automaticaly think they were a couple.
Finally, mlm variety!
RUclips notifications is telling me you left a longer comment but it seems to have disappeared? :c
@@CurmudgeonMedia yeah I wrote two, that’s weird
@@BradySpector do you wanna type it up again? I saw a preview of it and wanted to read it properly. I set the video to "hold potentially inappropriate comments" but nothing in the preview of the comment seemed rude or inappropriate. RUclips is just being WEIRD
@@CurmudgeonMedia honestly I forgot what it said because i have ✨adhd✨
@@BradySpector YT sucks for arbitrarily deleting comments :c
Im going with one sided Romance, one developed feelings for the other. But once found out, it strained there friendship
that would make a lot of sense!
I also really like this idea, because it’s such an awkward thing to overcome and would love to see this dynamic
What if only one of them is gay and that character told the other that they liked them. Witch became very awkward. And they have to overcome this to continue being friends without one of there feelings to hurt their relationship
@@kujoontheradio789 ...Literally what I said
@@RyokoAsakuraLastFan aye no worries
i mean, this is the ladt season. infinity train can go full on gay without holding back :]
RIGHT?
Shera did it, who says Infinity Train can’t? 🤷🏻♂️
Especially since all the episodes are coming out on one day so we can only hope and theorize about what will happen until that day
I think the season was well in progress when it was confirmed that the show was canceled and that’s why we are getting the 4th season. I do hope they went full gay with this season
@@CurmudgeonMedia it did not in fact go full on gay without holding back :'>
(edit: but im grateful for what little gayness we got in the end :> )
I really really hope we get a gay love story. Knowing how much historical and political context they crammed into Amelia’s short backstory, the fact that this book seems to be set in 80s america at the height of homophobia surrounding the aids pandemic it makes it seem like they’re setting it up for some kind of gay story. It’d make a lot of sense in that setting that their issue might be closeted feelings for each other they don’t want to accept because of homophobia. Plus more rep for gay men in animation is always great
Yes! The potential of the 80s backdrop would add SO much. On that note, RTD's latest endeavour "It's a Sin" is incredibly moving
@@CurmudgeonMedia oooo thank you for letting me know about that show! It looks great, I’ll give it a watch :)
@@frickinfrick8488 no problem at all, thanks for watching and commenting and stuff! 😊
@@CurmudgeonMedia np! I really liked this video, you make some great stuff and I’ll be looking out for more 😊
@@frickinfrick8488 thanks so much! I've been thinking of doing a vid for new subscribers asking what shows they'd like to see me talk about next
Though they're not in love as far as we know, I still love their dynamic, love the fact that they're Asian but raised in North America (like myself), and that they cry and hug, despite the fact that guys are typically told not to. Just little things that make me love this book so much
i'm really hoping too that this new book explores that possibility! Especially because Owen Dennis (creator of Infinity Train) has made different statements on this season trying something pretty different from other seasons and that 'they hope it comes as a pleasant surprise to most fans', and like god i hope that means LGBT representation
YES absolutely. He's being deliberately vague with his language, but even that feels reminiscent of some of the talking points in my video
0:45 way to steal my tweet 😂
An Easter egg just for you ;)
I hope Min and Ryan are romantically interested in each other, that would be so cute!!!
I'm still so surprised (in a good way) how many people have commented just to say how exciting it would be to see that kind of relationship!! I really hope it happens
I hope so too. I ship it so much
WHY IS THIS CHANNEL SO UNDERRATED- HOW- THIS IS SO WELL PRODUCED
awh thank you, I'm glad you enjoy our content, we work hard on it! c:
@@CurmudgeonMedia I can see that for sure! I'm sharing this channel as much as I can, you both really deserve more subs
@@h3ru_art358 that's so kind of you, we both really appreciate the support!
absolutely, but no one is convincing me lake wasn’t an enby/enby variation/trans
LITERALLY
I personally doubt they will end up being gay but if it ended up happening I would explode in happiness.
Even when we didn't get explicit mlm rep, it's OBVIOUS they're gay for each other.
This video is really awesome and each time I see it it gets better and better. Now that we have more to analyze, I think we got a lot more clues that tell us a cool story. Also, Min saying he "has bad thoughts all the time" and seeing all of Ryan's past relationships with women fail, but still keep thinking about MIn all the time...
You definetly were onto something in this video and I still love it.
Yeah, although I’m a bit disappointed I still loved book 4
Absolutely criminal that you don’t have way more subscribers - Amazing analysis around queer representation in media and how the “one gay character” in many shows coming out right now is integral to building onto positive associations later (maybe even inspiring other shows like She-Ra). Infinity Train has had one of the best interpretations of a non-binary character, Lake, and I would be over the moon to see more incredible writing and LGBTQ+ characters and their issues! Makes me so happy to see myself in media like I couldn’t when I was younger.
I'm really happy you enjoyed my video! It's all developmental--if creators can prove to studio figureheads that LGBTQ+ representation isn't an instant death wish for their series, the studios will allow people to be increasingly bold with that representation
in the animation of recent times, the lgbt + characters have been mostly women because they are better lived on a social level and i entered the television audience, but in the case of two gay men in a series transmitted by a children's channel, that is when the controversy begins, if in infinity train they can put two male protagonists, in a romantic relationship, it is because the series is on hbo max, since channels such as the cartoon network would not allow it, they had a good progress with the relationship of ruby and sapphire (characters from steven universe who look like women, although they are not gender), but when it comes to two boys it is different, usually for the worse, because of people with a retrograde / closed mentality or parents who recently worry about what their children see on tv, when a few decades ago no, for example cartoon network (a children's channel), it broadcast adolt suin, which had content not suitable for minors, but people get angry by representation, as if it was the same.
I really hope that they’re able to give good LGBTQ+ representation with this season
I have never even watched this show, but I watched the whole thing and now I'm excited to watch the show. You make such high quality videos its awesome!
Thank you, I'm so glad you enjoyed!!
You only watch shows that feature lgbt elements?
@@ordinarygamer2655 no? Not sure where you got that idea. This was a really well done video by someone I’m subscribed to and if they enjoy it then I probably would too. That’s all
@@hollowwood1 I’m talking about the show, you said you only started watching it because it had a gay couple in it
@@ordinarygamer2655 try reading the comment again. I’m praising the quality of video and because the creator enjoys the show, I think I might enjoy it too. Plus the clips I saw look intriguing to me. Idk why you felt the need to bring this up in the first place though but thanks
I found more meaning for 202
-The meaning of 202 when it comes to Love. The message of the angel number 202 is to listen to your heart. ... You cannot regret something that's made out of love. Be open to the gifts and blessings that this love will bring into your life because they will make you a much better person.
And
-Being associated with Venus, the planet that essentially represents love and sexuality, number 202 is a good omen for love. To people whom angels send number 202 love comes in unexpected places and moments. The true love often happens only in times we do not seek for it or force ourselves to find it.
Basically what you said but idk it’s the google version
this is some heckin' good internet detective work! Or...internective work, if you will
I already talked to my friends of all the ways that this season could go in my point of view:
-maybe one of them gets out of the train before the other kinda like Jesse, you can see ryan's number going down and the door opens, probably min would have more things to work on.
-they end up together, we see tensión between them but we don't know what kind of tensión.
-they drift away in good terms, over the time they started to fell apart, the tensión that we see could be this.
-they drift away in bad terms, *coff coff Simon and Grace coff coff*
-one of them dies maybe trying to protect the other.
idk I really look forward to a mlm couple in the show, I'm checking other options and not treating it like canon so I don't get disappointed.
I hope one of them doesn't die, my heart can only take so much :') I'm still not over Tuba...
@@CurmudgeonMedia it's obvious that someone will die, THE SHOW TURNED INTO A GAME CALLED ¿WHO WILL DIE THIS SEASON?
@@brii6644 it's the saddest game show ever :')
Since I saw the trailer, I could tell that their relationship is much more than friendship, it seems that they appreciate each other but there is something that without a doubt they are avoiding, which makes there a certain tension (romantic? platonic?) As I see it, It seems that without a doubt they like each other or one of them likes the other, but they do not admit it because being friends from childhood there is confusion or fear, because it could be like that unattainable or impossible love. So they just ignore it which makes them distance themselves and their relationship is at risk, I just hope that this season does not make me cry like the previous one and that those two come out alive and together from that train, of course reinforcing their relationship, it would be a great opportunity to be a canonical couple, infinity train has had some memorable characters each with a unique development. Whatever happens between the two of them, I know it's going to see a lot of drama about it.
I can't wait for it!
I wish they would make more seasons so we can get wlw relationships too
All I see in the comments is people trying to deny them being gay. Anyone could be gay. Relationships are diverse, and they need to be represented to confront stereotypes. We don't get to see male gay characters as protagonists that often, facing issues in their relationships and I realy hope the show takes this chance to show us this.
There are some comments which I did have to remove because they were so unpleasant. I'm really happy I've had so many comments like this one, comments that see what I saw and understand why it's important. Thanks for commenting and making my day better!
Well... Since this story probably takes place around the 1980's, it'll be quite the bumpy road for em' for a few years, when they get off the train together...
it definitely has that '80s vibe about it. '50s-style diners were all the rage in the '80s for some reason :L
that might definitely be part of their relationship that they need to fix! one or both of them may have internalized homophobia that was forced into them from the stigma during that time period, and the main arc may be them having to get over that.
@@alanderful9656 yeah that internalised homophobia was (and in many ways still is) a big factor
Unless they stay on the train together without worries of the outside world
Your video is so well edited, I love how far in depth you went into this especially with the Steven Universe section. Representation does matter, hopefully we get more of it in the future. Great video keep up the awesome work!!!
thanks for the kind words! it means a lot to me that even now people still find my video meaningful
I truly feel this is two guys who are scared to come out to each other. I really hope this happens
I think those two have feelings for each other but I don't think they want to admit it
1:57 It really does give off Catra and Adora vibes
Too bad we didn’t get the representation but I think we all know that they are gay lol. But besides that I really liked this video. It shows how important representation is and how it can change the world to be a more excepting place.
I hope so much that they are the gay angst with a happy ending
I’m literally just finished watching season four about three minutes ago oh my god they did representation right, that’s what I’ll tell you it’s not what you expect but they did it right and you can tell that there is romance
I did really enjoy Min and Ryan's dynamic. I agree there's definitely romance, and I'll unpack that in a later video, although it would have been nice to see something a little more overt, but that's just me. I also very much appreciated that they didn't leave the cultural aspect unspoken
given that lake reads to me, a nonbinary person, as well as other trans people i know as a strong nonbinary and trans parallel, i would definitely not be surprised if the show had these two be at least implicitly romantic. the people working on infinity train do seem to care a lot about its representation even though they're still working under the potential of being censored and all that.
And if not mistaken, a crewmember said that the two cops (Mace and Sieve) where a cuple. also in the crew book that owen dennis got from the crew, there was some story board art of the two of the dancing and of them was Sieve kissing Mace in the neck.
I don't think they're gay. I mean just because they're friends doesn't automatically make them gay. they're in a band so I believe they have to work hard as a team as well work on they're trust issues or else the band will break apart. but if they are gay that's cool too.
It is obvious that they like each other
Don't forget, they've already shown an LGBTQ representation in the show. Lake is literally non-binary and they leave the train together with Jesse. So having more representation in the show wouldn't be completely different from what we've already seen
If the characters are gay I would be so happy istg!
Just stumbled upon your channel and so glad I did! You’re content is really great! You’ve earned a new sub!
thank so much, and welcome to the channel! c:
I'm really hoping that they turn out to be together. We NEED some mlm rep on cartoons, there's barely any at all
Tbh I feel like, while they weren't able to make it explicit, the intention is certainly there. I'm guessing the romance arc got turned down, possibly due to the sexualization of mlm, but the subtext is rather apparent, just like with lake in book 2
is anyone gonna talk about how theyre wearing an outfit like amelia’s? did all old train passengers have to wear costumes like that until she took over as the false conductor?
presumably so! It certainly legitimizes the widely-held belief that this series takes place in the past (the 80s or 90s seem to be the popular decades)
Lol so it's a couple therapy storyline
lmao this is maybe the most succinct way of putting it
the train is a couples therapist now apparently/j
A different comparison I’ve seen on a comment is that it’s like the soulmate AU’s with the matching numbers
Omg why do you only have 300 subscribers, your production quality is amazing! Thank you for speaking about this, you did a wonderful job
That's so sweet of you to say, I'm really glad you enjoyed!! And welcome to the channel ☺️
@@CurmudgeonMedia Thank you, im ghappy to be here! Also, did you draw the avatars for your channel cause they look really good :o
@@smashlimeblogspot1 I did! Thank you, I'm glad you like them! All the drawings and animatics are all done by me, I post art sometimes on our Instagram c:
As much as I’d love mlm (what I’m presuming means Male Loves Male) to be incorporated into the show I doubt that’ll happen, not to say it doesn’t have a decent chance on happening but it’s just my personal thoughts.
that's fair enough! honestly I just wanted to use the opportunity talk a little about the recent history of representation and the context surrounding it
Hi Tom, I love you and your content and you’re amazing, I’m so glad you’re my friend 💚💚💚💚💚
This season turned out to be one of my favorites hands down. I loved both Ryan and Min Gi as well as how they were handled!
Hopefully we can get some confirmation on the AMA today, love this
What about Owl House?
Have you watched it?
I haven't! Is it good? c:
@@CurmudgeonMedia It is good enough that from my understanding Disney green light season 2 before airing episode 1 of it. Also it's cute with some gay stuff in there
(Forgot to add. Some people like episode 1 others it takes episode 2 to see where the show shines)
@@friendlyyeen4844 thanks for the recommendation! I'll have to check it out c:
I'll be so sad if this isnt true.
honestly me too :'c
While I would love to see the 2 leads be in a relationship. I'm not getting that vibe from the trailer. To me the storyline seems more like "Long time friends who start to drift apart." I would be very glad to be proven wrong. But we'll have to wait and see
Dude, I just want books 5 through 8 because they wanted 8 books. (Because 8 on its side is the infinity symbol ♾) Infinity train is my #1 favorite show and after this comes out, I’m boycotting CN.
It'll be curious to see if Infinity Train will return in the future like Samurai Jack did, and with a more mature tone. We know for sure that Owen Dennis would love to write the series for an adult audience
Remember Eddie and Richie from It?😂
PLEASE BE GAY I'D LOVE THIS!
*I smell an underrated youtube channel.*
But seriously, I enjoyed the video.
thanks so much for the kind words! we're trying to build a little community, and we hope you subscribe for more stuff c: we're putting a discord together as well!
Cool! I’ll try to support as much as I can :)
@@somanygoodfandoms that's very kind of you! c:
4:57 I'm italian and when the episode when Ruby asked to Sapphire to marry her,in the Italian dub she says:"Sapphire...do you want to be with me?" Like they weren't been lovers.
But,fortunately,their kiss they didn't censor it.
*laughs in russian*
/they made ruby have he/him pronouns and also threw the wedding episode away completely in here/
All Of Us after have watched the ten episodes : 🤡🤡
yep :') still glad I made the video though, I wanted to use it as an opportunity to talk about the discourse
UGH THAT WAS ME
One more show that has pushed it forward is definitely the owl house. Grom kinda proved that
Really loved the video! Great content as ever my man! :D
YOU ARE TOO KIND GOOD SIR, TOO KIND
Yessss this is a great video!!
Even if we didn't got what we wanted this is still an amazing video that talks about a very important topic. Hopefully on the future we'll get the representation we wanted
thank you, that means a lot
i want them to be best friends
After watching this and Lea C's analysis of the trailer, I will be very disappointed if there ISNT some kind of queer representation
i dont think its gonna be a satisfying conclusion, since this wasnt planned to be the end...
perhaps, but the beauty of the series being anthological in nature is that every book is self-contained and conclusive in a unique way
Me who thought they were siblings: :0
Lol me too
First time seeing your channel AND YOUR CHARACTER IS SO CUTE
THANK YOU SO MUCH, welcome to the channel! c:
I like how they may or may not be a gay couple and their original characters
GAY
HEY HI YOU MAKE VERY HIGH-QUALITY AND ENTERTAINING VIDEOS!!! YOU ARE CRIMINALLY UNDERATED AND IM HERE TO OFFER MY SUPPORT BY SUBSCRIBING!! And hopefully this doesn't come off as weird but!!! Your voice in general feels very natural and nice to listen to for extended periods of time and I thought that was neat :o!!!
Not weird at all, I'm super glad you enjoy my videos (and my voice) and welcome to the channel!! c:
Great vid!!
thank you! c:
To me its hinted to them being brothers rather than anything else, maybe twins, giving them the same number (obv not identical twins). The "tension" you mention could just be them trying to say that they're perfectly fine in their relationship as brothers, but not as friends.
They have different last names
They are not brothers
Min-Gi is of Korean descent and Ryan is of Japanese descent, so I don't think they're biologically related
@@CurmudgeonMedia I didn't know they were name dropped so I guess I was wrong, or someone was adopted and keeping their last name. Either way, that does put your opinion at a greater advantage than mine.
The first time I watched the book four trailer, I thought the protagonists were just friends.
So they're not gay. That's fine. Had they been gay, that would have been fine too. We still have gay dudes in Kipo and other shows, and I'm sure there will be more down the line.
However, I wish people would stop shipping characters just because they looked at each other, and then get mad when their ship doesn't happen. This applies to all kinds of ships and not just gay ones.
not sure if anyone is mad specifically, although I've not paid too much attention to Twitter since the season dropped. As for myself, I enjoyed book 4, and I'll be making a video about it as and when. I'm glad I made this video because I wanted to take the opportunity to talk about a topic that matters to me
Are you going to cover Fionna and Cake?
I probably will, but not right away--I'm busy with another video right now which is my *longest* and my best yet
I love this so much!!
Just finished Book 4 unfortunatley not canon
Yeah I finished the book earlier today :c still enjoyed the season though!
Catradora is meh... i mean i get why its important to so many people as it was their first contact with a gay main couple in a cartoon being so important but it is not without its shortcomings
You're totally right, it's important to include when discussing this topic, but there were certainly aspects that could have been handled better. Noelle Stevenson is clearly super talented though, and I believe She-Ra was their first experience helming a show, let alone of that scale
I love infinity train
here after minryan isn't canon and the ending was pretty boring
Dude, they are literally just best friends...
Maybe ones gay and loves the other, but the other is straight qnd dosen’t reciprocate it. I never saw that in a story yet
Can they just be friends
Nice
And just like that I'm not watching s4 anymore.
ok
idfc
Carmen sandiego is another, nothing overt but definitely suggested
I definitely need to get back into Carmen Sandiego, I loved the first season so much but just never found the time to get back into it
Wait where.?? I need to find it please lol
@@brookehughes911 Carmen Sandiego is on Netflix! c:
@@CurmudgeonMedia thanks, but I was kinda referring to more specific episodes ykno 🙃😅
@@brookehughes911 omg I'm just embarrassing myself I'm so sorry :')
Eh imo itd be boring if they were gay for each other
#renewinfinitytrain
Not gay.
Yup :')
@@CurmudgeonMedia So, uh, what do you feel about that? I don't doubt you'll make a review, right?
@@numnuts241 thought it was a wonderful series all in all. I'll definitely make a review, because there's a lot to be said in relation to this being "the last series," etc. The fact the characters didn't turn out to be romantically involved doesn't affect my opinion of the series. Like I say in my other speculation video, I was always down for whatever Owen Dennis had in store because he's a great showrunner.
I am going to keep this video up though, because the primary purpose for this video was to explore the recent history of the discourse, and (as the title says) why it's important. The possibility of there being a romance really was just my window into talking about a topic I'm passionate about. If I get too many "ha ha they turned out to not be gay" comments, I may pin a comment explaining this aha
I will also say that I still think the characters were heavily coded as romantically interested in one another, which I may explore whenever I make a review
Sugar didn't have great representation, for every moment that was good there were thousands more that were awful, harmful, tone deaf, or offensive. As hundreds of lgbt, people of color, and other marginalized groups have torn apart SU in countless essays, posts, videos, etc.
The stuff with pearl lusting after pink and never getting over pink's death, aka the person pearl was given to as a slave. Not to mention most of the time the actual gay characters ruby and sapphire are shoved into a closet, and reduced to a character that does nothing but give exposition on fusion or whatever. (Edit: Not to mention you see many instances in the series where gems fuse for reasons that aren't romantic or important to a relationship, but just used to help fight a monster or move the plot. So not every fusion is a "carefully thought out relationship".)
Not to mention every single lgbt character (except a one off character) in the show is either an alien or a fusion in a story where humans are present. I'll let you figure out why reducing all lgbt characters to aliens in a story where humans exists is problematic.
There are many more issues with SU's bad lgbt, mental health, and racial representation. But I'm just talking about the lgbt stuff, so if you want to educate yourself on all of SU's other issues, then go read/watch the hundreds of essays, posts, videos, etc that lgbt people, people of color, and other marginalized groups have torn the show apart for.
Who cares? Let’s just wait.
...we gotta keep in mind that they might NOT be LGBT, and I better not hear y'all saying you were queerbaited because you weren't.
This isn't great representation, infinity train is on an american exclusive steaming service. You want good representation have it not be on a country specific streaming service. Have it not be on a streaming service, have it be on actual tv. Foreign countries, and conservative parents in the US can easily deny lgbt content in streaming services, or up the age rating to adult/mature. Parents can chose to avoid the service or block the shows in question. With a show that is on air they can't do that as easily, when lgbt stuff comes into the show they aren't going to know that ahead of time, because it wasn't all dropped at once. So the show can still air uncensored for a while in those places.
She-ra was enemies to lovers, however it was done in a really toxic way. Catra tried to harm, maim, and kill both Adora and her friends at every opportunity she got, just to one up Adora because she had issues.
It is literally a kids show, why do people care if the characters are gay or straight
Excuse the lateness, but it being a kids show is EXACTLY why people care. I assume you watched the video, so you probably heard about seeing yourself in media and having positive representation for giving positive and humanizing connotations in media as well as giving queer kids a positive example of strong and happy role models. There is so so few and we want more. Sorry if that sounded rude, but if you are still asking I recommend rewatching the video :) (also I would argue this is a early teenager show, it's a little more mature/dark/heavy than the average "kids" show)
they showed a man melting how the hell is IT a kids show