Man you guys are fired up !! And I absolutely love it !! The biggest flops in Yugioh history is an inherently subjective and controversial series by nature (as Will another new series I’m working on). I provide information on the card’s history, expectations and competitive results and then you ultimately decide. Time to start working on the third entry
CapG Dragoon didn't flop my guy.. It didn't dominate in meta decks obviously, but it pushed MULTIPLE rogue or tier 3 decks to Tier 2 or even Tier 1. Cyber dragons become tier 2 and could put up Dragoon + infinity + another negate + back row FOR FREE WITH JUST 2 EFFECT MONSTERS (Make anaconda > Dragoon with 2 monsters only). Sky Strikers could close out and lock games. PK, Hero, Orcust, and many other decks were buffed by Dragoon and CAME BACK. It didn't dominate like in the OCG but it was still good! MAN DO YOUR RESEARCH!
Well yes, that's EXACTLY what happened. DPE took Dragoons spot because DPE's total package is MUCH better than Dragoons, despite Dragoon being a stronger card.
@@trippersigs2248 Fusion Destiny also wasn't a brick the way Red-Eyes Fusion was. You can activate Fusion Destiny from the hand at the end of your combo with no issues (basically the same as going into Bananaconda without having to pay 2k), whereas drawing Red-Eyes Fusion meant it was either Dragoon or your combo.
@@trippersigs2248 I'm not even 100% sure Dragoon is a stronger card. DPE can be harder to get rid of and combo really well with Scythe. Also it destruction might even be better than a negate, given that there are a few negates on board anyway. On the other hand, Eldlich setting their hand, putting a Dragoon and drawing two could be game breaking as well.
I think part of what makes DPE better is that Pred Ana could still get run over by a beatstick if you Dragoon, but DPE could essentially pop it and any other card on the field on summon. And of course, Destiny Heros have more graveyard effects than two normal monsters.
It'd be like if Konami decided to wait until Fall 2023 to release the new Ishizu cards. Will that make Ishizu Tear a "bad" deck in the TCG if it just was inaccessible prior to power creep? Especially if Konami decides to print cards that probably were designed for the specific purpose to counter the strategy?
Maxx C. The true effects of that card are a LOT more complicated than "it keeps combo decks in check," which isn't even true, but I digress, and it can effect deck building a lot. A resolved Maxx C is pretty much a death sentence, but Dragoon is an insanely powerful summon even under Maxx C, pretty much guaranteeing survival at the time. For whatever reason, OCG players LOVE Maxx C, so they hated Dragoon for being able to make a decently strong threat under Maxx C. On a subtler, but probably no less important note, in a meta game with Maxx C, RE Fusion isn't a brick, because you don't really want to summon anything else under Maxx C.
@@thomaswood8405 For the record, OCG players don't "love" Maxx C, it's just at 3, so they kinda have to tolerate it's existence. As such, the meta of that format's been warped around the card. Dragoon being banned was a result of this format-warping card.
Dragoon was in the meta though for a while until DPE replaced it. I don't see how its a flop, it served its purpose and is more "fair" then DPE due to its bad spell and materials.
Yea when it did alot of people were relived u would much rather deal with the inconvience dpe was the the offensive and defensive juggernaut dragoon was he could go crazy by himself he didn't need a artifact sythe combo or anything else
As a newer player without a playset of Ashes or any Droplets or any of the other Dragoon counters, Dragoon was an absolute nightmare for me. One time, I did the full Phantom Knight combo, and my friend just activated Red-Eyes Fusion to win right there. Two burning destructions and then direct attack.
I think mbt’s two videos from when youtube shorts were very telling about the situation where dragoon is theoretically stronger but there already being multiple combo decks ending on multiple negates made it more bricky then dpe. With the dpe float also just super convenient
@@philithegamer8265 that is true but I think it took a little while for the artifact engine to catch on. Though yeah the celestial draw two definitely is worth mentioning and I imagine if DPE didn't have that interaction with Scythe I personally think it probably wouldn't have had the staying power it had.
I remember after I came back to the game, and I was checking out some of the online simulators. I encounter Dragun and within a couple of turns I realized the card was absolutely broken.
Shortly after it came out I was playing traditional format on dueling book (1 of each banned card allowed), my opponent got out dragoon, I baited out its negate, then flipped fiber jar, and spent the rest of the duel trying to explain to my opponent that it neither targeted nor destroyed so dragoon wasn't immune to it. He wouldn't listen and eventually rage quit.
I hope that Red-Eyes or Dark Magician gets another Fusion Spell that can quickly get this out with less restrictions, but not be too splashable so it's played in the deck its designed for. It's my favorite fusion yugioh has ever created tho.
Agreed. Dragoon is objectively the strongest DM monster, so no longer being able to turbo it out hurts. A Dark Magician fusion that would be searchable with Rod would take Dark Magician to the next level.
@ZL Cloud Dark magician already has that! You can use Eye of Timaeus to summon Dragoon by targeting a literal copy of Dark Magician on your field (super easy to get out) ;) you only get 1 pop per turn tho Its significantly better because you can also use that spell to go into the other DM staple fusions For Red eyes players i got nothing, Red Eyes Fusion is just plain terrible due to the whole if it gets ashed your turn is over....
Awww yeaahhhh da red eye's playeuh.! ... is how i felt at first. But then you play Cydras, Yosenjus, Coin deck, Dragunity and a few other funner decks and realize how f*cking boring Red Eye's is. Ow O i mean there's far worst but.... red eye's is like playing yubel... or vampires..... but more boring.... and it's spammed just as much as bewd.... :/
@@xakannax EOT isn’t searchable though. Even being a “Dark Magician” card. You cannot search it with Rod, making it garbage. Dark Magician is the only deck I use. I’ve splashed sky strikers, pure, branded. I’ve tried EOT and it just isn’t that good. The minute you active it, 80% of the time your opponent has a card to chain and remove DM, thus resolving EOT with no effect. It’s happened too many times. You have to open Magicians Souls and EOT on turn 1 going first
I love Dragoon. Even to this day, he is still a very strong boss monster. He absolutely dominated the OCG, and while I was in love with the idea of Dragoon as a Dark Magician fanboy, I was terrified of going up against him in the TCG. Then he finally dropped and...nothing really happened. By the time he came to the TCG, the game had moved into such a combo dominated format that Dragoon was just unnecessary to play. Add to that the TCG was given FAR more outs to Dragoon at this point, and the idea of sorely relying on Dragoon for your win condition proved to already be an out of date strategy once we finally got him. DPE did exactly what Dragoon was set up to do but failed miserably. Dragoon was an S tier boss with an F tier engine. DPE was an A tier boss with an A tier engine. From a deck building perspective, Dragoon is trash. Two level 7 vanillas and a fusion spell that locks you outta summoning anything else the turn you activate it is just far too debilitating to run for a lot of players as opposed to the DPE engine. I'm happy to see Dragoon is alive here in the TCG, again, Dark Magician player here. It was disappointing to see he was pretty much dead on arrival here, but that's modern Yugioh power creeped for ya.
Dark Magician player? A man of culture I see. I completely agree with your points here. On paper Dragoon is a great card but it's a shame he never got the opportunity he received in the ocg to shine but its fine. As a DM player myself I personally think it's probably for the best in its own deck though, the problem is relying on Dragoon like so many DM players insist on doing will be a big reason for the decks lack of competitive presence because like you said, relying on it as a boss monster is outdated. At best he's a Red Herring
Hello fellow DM players, I agree the whole notion that Dragoon won you the game on its own completely underestimated the meta. Though to Dragoon's credit, or should I say Verte, that was the last time a DM deck topped a regional if my memory serves me right.
@@LeoCantus oh for sure. DM needs quite the overhaul in terms of cards, cause Dragoon is pretty much the only real win condition we have at this point. And with Konami printing more and more outs to huge bosses like Goons, it's hard to get him to stick to the board.
Literally all I'm asking for is a Dark Magician Fusion spell (similar to Red-Eyes Fusion) so it's searchable off Rod. That would break the DM strategy. Timaeus the United Dragon tried that, and is slightly better now because of Illusion of Chaos, but we need that fusion spell!
I love Dragoon in Dark magician decks hes great! Its nice you can use Eye of Timaeus instead of Red Eyes fusion to avoid the risk of losing a turn NGL my favorited deck to run Dragoon in was fluffals because they really didnt have any negates otherwise and necro fusion allowed you to get 2 of them while still being good for other fusion summons (dog draws sheep into verte into dragoon was a nice line to start on) That actually why i hated the verte ban, it was clutch for fusion decks to extend into when out of gas (would've preferred to see Dragoon and DPE banned, or Red Eyes fusion and Fusion Destiny)
I feel like most of the time OCG cards come to the TCG less powerful because more time has passed (new support released, more time for people to figure out counters, etc.) but I wonder if there are examples of the opposite happening where a card from the OCG comes to the TCG more powerful.
I think this is a good testament to show how the OCG and TCG differs from each other when it comes to how cards impacts their respective formats. Cause another good example of this happening was when Crossout Designator was finally released in the TCG. A card that was a staple 3 of in the OCG when released to the point of it being put on the banlist later on, but when released in the TCG, although is still a great card, wasn't as impactful as we originally thought.
While Dragoon was an overall flop in the tcg and I get why it didn't really see a lot of success, I can't lie. The card is just badass. A fusion of Dark Magician and Red Eyes? AND it is absolutely stacked with powerful effects? It sounds like a custom card or something straight out of the anime. Great video Cap!
I think the main reason for Dragoon's relative failure compared to its dominance in the OCG is, interestingly enough, Maxx "C". I stole this take from Sebto, but in a format with Maxx "C" running rampant, having a good Verte target became a great contigency plan and worth running 2 literal garnets. It's a non-problem in the TCG so why run 2 vanillas when you can run literally any other engine cards? Also, let me just say that one of the things I love with old Yugitubers like you, Robbie and John is that you guys actually pay attention to OCG stuf when most contemporary players and Yugitubers just dismiss OCG entirely.
i remember using triple tactic talents to steal dragoon on a ygo dueling website and the person cursed me out and said "who even plays that card!?" as i OTK'd him with his own dragoon lol
thats largely due to the difference in the fusion spells tho, red eyes fusion literally bricks your turn if you get ashed when playing it from hand, fusion destiny does not. Has nothing to do with the fusions or garnet components (nobody is manually summoning dasher, i supposed sometimes you might play celestia?). Objectively Dragoon is much stronger than DPE if it didnt have that massive downside on Red Eyes Fusion
Best way I heard yugioh explained to me recently. The point of the game of yugioh is to know how to break the game. Meaning all the rules have no point if the game allows you to break it and create ridiculous and unfair board states.
I’m surprised it didn’t come earlier (the concept of the monster not it’s effects) a fusion of Dark Magician and Red Eyes Yugi and Joey’s monsters beat bros coming together just seems obvious to me
Well they’ve done the concept before(Black Skull Dragon and Dark Flare Knight). Dragoon was just so good that people talk about it more. Considering how much Konami loves Yugi and Joey, I wouldn’t be surprised if we got another fusion card just for Dragoon
they can negate the effect of Utopia the Lightning to gain attack during the damage step fwiw so youd have to bait it first (also dragoon gets 1000 atk per use so you have a narrow window) it is a good counter tho and every rank 4 XYZ deck should have that bc of shit like Dragoon and Chaos Max
@@xakannax "If this card battles, your opponent cannot activate cards or effects until the end of the Damage Step." So no, Dragoon cannot negate Utopia the Lightning.
For those confused about why dragoon is a failure when its so strong, remember this is talking on the competitive level in a 2 of 3 format, not randoms turboing it out in simulators in a best of one.
flop meaning it did not live up to expectations as well. We thought we would have to stop playing the game until it got banned tbh, it just seemed so scary before it was dropped in tcg.
I’d say that the main difference between dragoon, who was niche at best, and DPE, who contributed to the verte ban, was splashability. Although dragoon has great protection and good effects, the restrictions from its fusion spell and how useless its materials are meant that dpe was bound to replace it. TCG players were given the choice between a negate+effect destruction+burn damage with useless materials in the graveyard and a disruption+free monster+POT OF GREED. Unsurprisingly, they chose the latter.
And DPE had far better interactions with the other cards at your disposal like the Artofact Engine along with being able to go plus with it every turn, unlike Dragoon where you had to go minus 1 to activate its omni-negate, this isn't even bringing up the good Destiny HEROes having great effects when they hit the graveyard that alos make you go plus. DPE + Fusion Destiny + Verte offers way too much utility for so little cost.
Didn't help that DPE was going to be released within a year and Fusion Destiny has zero downsides unlike Red-Eyes Fusion. If Fusion Destiny was just as restrictive I highly doubt most decks would have played DPE over Dragoon. And both engines only saw wide stream play because Verte allowed degenerative strategy like that.
I definitely think having Maxx C in the format was a lot bigger for Dragoon than you gave it credit for. If they drop Maxx C on you, you can just make Anaconda and sit on a super hard to out Dragoon while giving the opponent minimal draws. Comparing it to the TCGs much faster pace where you don't have to worry about it, these combo decks can just make a bigger board with more monsters without the 2-3 bricks that hurt the consistency of any deck trying to incorporate it. Also good luck trying to push through an omni + a towers while your opponent draws for every play you make.
Yep, this is a huge one. Maxx C forces OCG players to have "middle ground" stop points and Dragoon is one of the best go-to for that. It's the same as Tearlaments in TCG today. Time Thief Redoer is one of the best cards for the OCG because it's a good stopping point, but you see most Tear decks dropping Redoer because it doesn't combo hard enough.
@@Avermra TCG lists never drop redoer, the card is good because it detaches for effect and let's you trigger tears on the opponents turn. They don't need middle grounds either, it's why halqifibrax got banned.
@@andrepayne4349 Maxx C is at 3 in the OCG. Pretty easy to hard draw it in your opener. Same chances as opening ash or Imperm. Both of which are cards that single handedly stop entire archetypes from making it past rogue status.
I use dragoon in my branded eldlich dogmatika deck using only a light hex sealed since it fits perfectly and has less bricks than regular dragoon engine
Chaos Max does nothing on the board. Does it have a lot of attack? Yes. Does it have good protection? Yes. But the fact that it effectively does nothing on your turn while you set up a multitude of ways to get around it makes the card simply bad in most scenarios. What does Chaos Max do going first? Sit there while you summon Mirrorjade or Zeus and just blow it up. At least Dragoon comes with a negate to have some form of interaction.
I’ll always love Dark Magician and it’s many and varied support, and I’d still love to get a Dragoon for myself. It may not be as fearsome as it was in the OCG but it’s still fairly good and really cool. That’s all I need.
I honestly want a fusion between Dark Magician and Blue Eyes to be just as powerful if not more powerful ! I don't care if it get band immediately, it needs to be just that good !
Wouldn't really make sense from a story standpoint or in terms of synergy. A Dragon Master Knight retrain might work as BLS did previously have a fusion with it, and it's the more equal rival to Blue Eyes. It just needs to be easier to summon.
Dragoon on it's own was not much of a problem because dedicating your whole deck to a boss Monster Turbo has, historically, never worked out. Dragoon was mainly an issue when paired with other threats such as negations, interruptions and floodgates. It made combo decks much more threatening but this was at the time where there was a wide range of going second cards, which could either break boards or stop them from combo-ing off. DPE was more fashionable because it was a more versatile Monster which allowed for some recursion for a grind game. It's garnets weren't as bad as DM Vanillas and Fusion Destiny wasn't the worst thing to draw compared to Red-Eyes Fusion. Quickplay Scrap Dragon wasn't broken but on top of everything else, it could just add that little push more.
I mean Dragoon actually has a negation built into it, if only that negation discarded for effect instead of cost it would be more useful. I've only been in casual games since 2017 and haven't seen a tournament in ages, but while getting stuck with parts of your engine and not being able to bring Dragoon is bad, I think it's pretty good if you manage to bring it out. If you can bring it out and set Imperial Iron Wall, Recall, and Mind Crush, I think your chances of winning are probably greater than 30 to 1 if you have at least 6000 LP and more LP than your opponent and at least 7 to 1 in other cases you get Dragoon out. But most engines that can turbo Dragoon out are thin on backrow. This kind of reminds me of Number C88: Gimmick Puppet Disaster Leo. If you can get that thing out with 3 good backrow cards, you've probably won (your opponent will likely be burned to death before the instant win effect). But most Gimmick Puppet decks can't turbo out the base form Leo and have backrow left unless oyu have more than 40 cards in the deck, which runs into consistency problems.
"Dedicating your whole deck to a boss Monster Turbo has, historically, never worked out." but that's basically every deck If you mean one specific monster then, uh... TeleDAD?
Also it is worth mentioning that when Dragoon was released in OCG, it's strongest variant (namely Dijinn-Lock Dragoon) was viable as "Dijinn Releaser of Rituals" was safe from the banlist. Also during that period, there weren't any Forbidden Droplet or Triple Tactics Talent there, combine with maxx C, Dragoon was extremely broken
i dont think dragoon was an issue for the high tier meta decks in the tcg but when u got to tier 2 or rogue decks it would be a game ender immediately to see it now its not an issue at all bc of how spright and tear raised the power ceiling for the game
Even if people don't believe it "flopped", it DID ( _HOWEVER_ ) "underperform" unlike in the OCG when it released over there. People expected Dragoon to BASICALLY ruin the TCG but given the difference in product/card releases, it wouldn't QUITE pan out the same way. That's not to say Dragoon isn't an insane card. I'm pretty sure a lot of rogue strategies that didn't have a built in out HATED this card (and still do)
Can confirm. Honestly, as a pure/plant eccentric rikka player dragoon is still a hassle But honestly, without verte it's w/e and I don't recall it seeing any play outside of the intended decks until people remembered verte was a card. When dragoon really started taking off DPE was around the corner, *(Thanks alot for that verte, making it painful to play D-heroes)* and dpe ENGINE better than dragoon ENGINE TL;DR. Dragoon under delivered versus actually flopped and the real star for both monsters was *verte* (fuck verte, won't be missed)
It didn't. Covid flopped a lot of cards and deck though. Cause of that decks and cards flopped, but not them themselves, cause people can't play them when they was locked in their house. Your right about it not being such a big case though, we get a lot of out now, but, well that the same for all cards lol.
@@darkdestroyer4228 Covid was not the reason Dragoon flopped. By the time it was released remote duel YCS' were already in full swing, and fan made online events were going on as well. Even in those events, Dragoon underperformed.
I don't think its a flop... The fact that we banned it in the OCG due to his annoying negates and kinda likea big beater (yes i know dpe package is better thanks to celestial and dpe being a floating removal) so he did his job well
There were already so many outs to it before it released, it's not worth banning. Thats why OCG lost some credibility for me. And Ocg barely played super strong decks like adamancipator with halq and block dragon. Maxx C is not an excuse.
@@andrepayne4349 adamancipators isn't really a big "threat" in OCG... that time Orcust were dominant... And we main deck D.D. Crow so even if rocks got the early combo once they dump block dragon in GY... Bye bye
Well they banned red eyes fusion in tcg, this was only for getting dragoon less used (and that work as we never really see it again in tournament, even in locals). The "so easy to out lol" argument that other say is absolutly absurd, every cards is easy to out now, we just need the right card in hand at the good moment, like for dragoon, mystic mine, dpe, vfd, avramax (even coupled with ip masquerena), beelzeus (which is not even used anymore but was considered overpowered in the past lol) ect, saying that about a specific card is a casual-player argument, which is so not a real one as it is the same for everything. Dragoon from the mp22 is still in top selling though at 15$ (and I remember at his begining, when it cost 70$, then 50, and didn't go more down than 40 before this reprint)
@@darkdestroyer4228 I dont know why you're only talking about cards you need to hard draw, but there's also a billion extra deck cards that easily out Dragoon. So it was powercrept before it was even released. Definitely a flop.
@@rinkujoka232 TCG considers adamancipator with block dragon and halq to be the best deck in the history of this game so far. According to road of the king Ocg even played nerfed Zoodiac decks over adamancipator when linkross was legal, which is insane.
I used Dragoon in my Twighlight Thunder Dragons deck. Got many great plays outta him and if I couldn't use his materials with Anaconda, no problem! I ran Allure of Darkness with Chaos Creator so they synergized well! Luckily Dragoon has a home with my Despias!
actual question how do you make dragoon consistently in despia (sounds spicey)? Albion and Lubellion both require you to have the materials in grave/field/ban to use, are you hard drawing Dark Magician / a fusion substitute to do this? or is there another card im not thinking of? (assuming Albaz is the dragon, but not sure how you get the "Dark Magician" part reliably)
Dragoon is a late game card in those games. Helps achieve the win in the end game (unless you're under skill drain, which has happened in a few rounds i',ve been in )🙃
I just don’t think any boss monster would be that scary unless it can’t be tributed. In a world where Kailu, sphere mode and lava golem are a thing, boss monsters just don’t seem particularly scary……..
Well for a expensive card (still 15$ here with the mp22 reprint) and a very used cards before red eyes fusion ban it really doesn't look like a flop lol.
@@asimhussain8716 I play at competitive condition, I didn't need casual noob for know what is what kiddo. And no I didn't look at it more than 10sec, cause I don't need it :) youtube just get random shit when switching, well random video after I watch one of the european champion one, and that one was stupid. And yeah, being at 15-80$ and being in the top 10 of selling cards (no stupid collector buyers in the site) don't mean anything, yes sure genious, and they did ban anaconda verte only for dpe which is still used in contrario of dragoon lol.
Power creep had nothing to do with it, Dragoon was and is STILL an insanely strong boss monster. It just isnt nearly as generic and splashable as people wanted it to be. It requires too many bad cards to use. Dragoon has in no way been power crept.
Honestly dragoon should absolutely be in master duel. I'm bamboozled that we had dpe for months and recently a bit of a slap on the wrist from the ban list, while the far more "balanced" dragoon is missing
Dragoon is in Master Duel its just on the ban list, once they eventually ban verte itll probably come off (really glad its not in game that card toxic af) Dragoon is arguably stronger than DPE and just as toxic neither card is good for the game :P
Honestly it's interesting to me how in a way the tcg wants to keep things as inconsistent as possible to try and make healthy metas, while the Ocg wants the power ceiling as low as reasonable possible to make healthy meta's.
I am sorry CapG, but saying that Dragoon is a flop is very insulting, and I disagree. (Worth to note I am just 1 min in the video and I prefer to write my comment now) I know it is for TCG, but Dragoon was format wreckking in OCG land, I dare you to go check how the format was back then, every single deck was playing the package with anaconda. to a point where OCG limited anaconda, REF AND Dragoon. The card is definitely not a flop, the fact we got it late is what made it "powercrept" plus the non existance of Maxx"c" over here. and even tho, Dragoon was very relevant when it was release, not as OCG but it definitely made an impact and I do remmeber people put it on their list, ban list prediction back then (no one was considering anaconda as a problematic card) what really damaged dragoon, is the fact we got it late AND that we got AFTER droplet was released x\ Droplet is a boss killer, the card manages to kill any boss monster (except the unaffected ones) and for me, it changed the game as much as the promo of 2020 mega tins (the nibiru ones). droplet, lightning storm, ruler all this card allowed us to shift into a new era of YGO. so, I feel it is too disrespectful to say that Dragoon is a flop while there was way worse than him plus the card is still good, I am confident it will raise again. (friendly reminder, REF is THE worst fusion spell that ever existed, imagine this card being released after shaddoll fusion lmao, it is just sad how Konami are "racist" toward the deck)
DPE outshined Dragoon. For as overtuned and aggressive Dragoon had been, DPE having that revival removal is what I'd say is the more valuable effect. Verte is totally the problem card the same way I'd say Bahamut Shark as the Toad enabler is broken the same way Ptolemaeus got banned so long ago for giving any deck CDI. Insane bosses are fine... in bad decks, is a neat idea.
Dragoon was crazy for a time, but that time happened to be around the halting of paper play caused by covid. There were reasonable arguments made why DPE wad worse than Dragoon -- those arguments just were proved wrong almost immediately. And now with Verte gone, Dragoon is an afterthought best left to more casual DM and REBD decks
You said it all friend. The only card, as I competitive player, I was afraid for a time was vfd. New I'm only worried about my draw, cause mystic mine rules again and it is easy to out but we need the card in the hand at the right moment lol (or have a possibility to get the same number as the opponent, which is not difficult too though)
Dragoon didn’t flop. At all. Trying to say it did in any capacity is dumb. Dragoon splashed directly into the meta and shifted the entire meta until it got banned. I’m not sure how you can say it flopped after saying the format revolved around it right until it was banned. By the time it was unbanned the meta had moved into a state where Dragoon and cards like it simply aren’t as powerful because we got more outs. That’s why DPE is played over it, DPE is infinitely easier to get on board and far more consistent while filling the same role with a softer summoning requirement. If Dragoon didn’t require Red-Eyes cards to play then it would be a hot debate between DPE and Dragoon in deck building.
I wouldn't call dragoon a flop...they just brought out something more splashable in the form of dpe...also red-eyes fusion isn't the greatest card considering it shuts off your special summon for the rest of the turn...vs destiny fusion which just nukes the monster summoned after the next turn
Red Eyes Fustion was far more restrictive. Only if you used it with Anaconda would effect apply for the rest of the turn. If you raw activated that card, you didn't summon for the entire turn. Before or after the card's activation. So if that effect was negated, you just couldn't summon for the rest of your turn.
@@blackmark2899 anaconda stopped you special summoning for the rest of the turn as well but you could get around the "cannot summon anything else at all" part of red-eyes fusion...which to be fair was I believe the first fusion card that could use materials from deck (either red-eyes or shaddoll had that first if I'm remembering right), imo it needs a retrain to be more modern friendly and if they do that then it would definitely be a viable boss monster for red-eyes and maybe even meta viable
Really shows what a bad place the game is in when a card that's crazy good and sounds like bad fanfiction was barely a sneeze to most decks, and was replaced by something even better so quickly.
Because the card itself doesn't suck, but everything around it does. You basically are forced to run 3 garnets to get this guy out, and these garnets don't give you any help at all like the DPE engine did. If this guy had better materials and a better fusion spell, like DPE did, he'd have been busted.
@@e-tan3911 even the fusion spell might be enough Like fusion destiny is a card you "want" to draw, since you can just activate it at the end of the turn and use the bodies that would be verte material for something else, if ref was similar dragoon might've been more competitive, especially after vw and drytron got dealt with
In my Goukis REDD and Anaconda allowed me to add an omninegate to my opening board (which is somewhat hard to come by in a link deck), but it wasn't very useful after that.
I think that alot of hate towards Red-Eyes Dark Dragoon comes partly from Verte Anaconda and Fusion Summoning from the deck. In the case of Verte, it was a generic Link-2 (so very easy to summon) with an effect to by pass card restrictions and copy effects, which is not good for balanced card design. Fusion Summoning from the deck has been a problem. Pre-errate Future Fusion was busted. Shaddolls was meta for a good time and still fairly rogue. Brilliant Fusion saw play for years. Branded Fusion is being abused, now. All-in-all it is a mechanic which is on a slippery slope which is heavily unbalanced. I know Fusion is an old mechanic which needs support to make it playable but just breaking it open like this is not the answer.
100% right with your post. That's why I like Frightfur/Fuffal/Edge Imp. It's a quick and explosive Fusion Deck that's great at turboing Fusions out with zero need of a Shadoll Fusion-esqe card. It does it the old fashion way of mainly relying on Polymerization.
Honestly even without the trash materials and fusion spell required dragoon was pretty mediocre as a standalone boss monster due to how many outs to it exist in today's meta, and not just "draw the out" style outs that make people hate mystic mine and other floodgates but easily accessible boss monsters both archetypal as well as generic ones(looking at you accesscode). Even when branded fusion was revealed and gave dragoon a much better way to summon it people quickly realised it was just not worth it and shifted their focus back to mirrorjade. It could highkey be unbanned tomorrow in master duel and people wouldn't bat an eye, the funniest thing is people would probably only use it as branded in high spirits fodder in shaddoll or witchcrafter as it's the only spellcaster target for now that we don't have master of chaos.
it annoys me that dragoon isn't legal in MD because I play loads of midrange decks that would LOVE to sit on Dragoon. Or even some of my control decks like traptrix could make good use of the card.
@@JudojugsVtuber both card are incredibly toxic, neither is good for the game in a BO1 format both should be on ban list. Its a huge blessing Dragoon is not avail kinda hoping they ban DPE too and keep verte, would be nice to have it legal somewhere since its a based fusion support card that got abused by meta decks purely because DPE and Dragoon exist
In short, Dragoon took advantage of the lack of tools to face it on the OCG, but then crashed straight into a wall when everything and their mother had at the very least 1 searchable or easily summoned way to take care of the card. It still looks absolutely broken, nobody can deny that, but its primary strength came from the fact that nobody - not even the game itself - was ready for it. Dragoon is probably one support away from a resurgence, but I doubt Konami will make the Verte mistake twice, so hopes for that are scarce.
Red-Eyes Black Dragon specifically would need to get the same Level of support as Dark Magician and Blue-Eyes White Dragon, but Konami keeps shitting on the card and never gave him that support. To me if that happens, there would be some type of Deck that will have Dragoon be a surprise factor and you would just need either Nib, DRNM, Forbidden Droplets still but you would have have give up a bunch of cards,, Divine Incarnate (newly released), and those are just a few that counters a ridiculous board with Dragoon. Konami wouldn't powercreep Red-Eyes Fusion due to Red-Eyes in general getting recent support in the OCG that involves the Fusion Spell, so the next best thing is something like Muddy Mudragon, Invocation, Necro Fusion, Ultra Poly, or even Fallen of Albaz as it's a Dragon Effect Monster that can be used as material for Dragoon; however, Super Poly is the better option if your not a combo deck.
Dark Magician Decks have Eye of Timaeus to summon Dragoon with no downside fwiw, but you right actual red eyes decks are boned due to Red Eyes Fusion being so incredibly bad for you when ashed Necro fusion is really good option if you can GY a dragon and a dark magician/fusion substitute card in any deck (provided the deck uses fusions anyway so its not dead otherwise) Toss king of the swamp or something in red eyes it could work
I did leave the game during 2012/2013. Seing now that cards like that getting printed just lets me shake my head. Its sad to see what this game has become.
Same time I stopped but still I keep in touch with the news surrroding my favorite archetypes . Game is so fast boring nowadays , that if you don't make a huge board 1/3 of your deck used in 1 F ING turn it's game over -_- ,. And a card don't search or pop shit ain't worth playing
The exact problem with Dragoon alone was just how bloated the card was, the actual problem was (and arguably still is) Verte anaconda. If Dragoon was more accessible like the build of Branded Despia that could summon it, it would be entirely broken. Though really, the underlying problem of Yu-Gi-Oh is the powercreep where an untargetable, indestructible, negating beatstick is now considered unviable.
Verte wasnt actually the real problem tho, the problem was 1 card fusion spells that let anyone splash Dragoon, DPE etc into their decks with verte (Although DPE is still played because Fusion Destiny has no downside to cast from hand unlike Red Eyes Fusion). And cards like Dragoon and DPE being printed that are so strong every single deck wants to run them. Verte by itself was an extremely based card for fusion decks that let you extend through negates and activate your fusion spells from deck if needed. It was really unfortunate the card got banned it lead to some great plays. If they had instead banned Dragoon and DPE (or Red Eyes Fusion and Fusion Destiny) the card really wouldnt be used outside of fusion decks as a top support card (unless maybe you run super poly)
I feel like there's another difference between the OCG and TCG worth mentioning: The OCG has Maxx "C". If you don't want to continue the Maxx "C" Challenge, and only do one Special Summon, few monsters can do as much for that one Special Summon as Dragoon can. That pressure does not exist in the TCG.
Yeah dragoon was totally a flop, but there's a couple more things that definitely contributed to it failing. 1. Don't trust ocg results Ocg results are a poor representation of how good a deck is going to be, they include much smaller tournaments and the general way that people build their decks are different, with ocg players more heavily valuing explosively, which makes sense in a shorter tournament structure. 2. Dragoon doesn't actually win the game Dragoon is very good when backed up by other cards... and less so when it's just Dragoon. Many of the Dragoon decks in the ocg were focused on using Dragoon to answer the normal summon of a Playstarter exactly, which happened to be what most decks in the ocg relied on at that time. Infact, it was played in Orcust specifically so that they could negate in the mirror. It was something you played as a bonus, and that's hard to justify. 3. 3 bricks in your deck is a high price in the tcg In the much shorter ocg tournaments, playing 3 bricks isn't a big deal, after all, you're probably gonna only see 1 over the course of a match. In the tcg, you're going to open all 3 at least once due to the higher amount of rounds. It came up, frequently. 4. Verte sucks ass Verte has 500 attack, easiest Zeus summon of my life. 5. What dpe did right Dpe was much better for the following reasons 1. Dragoon was a 1 for 1 in card advantage, dpe gave you a +1 every turn 2. Drawing fusion destiny wasn't bad, it represented a free interruption 3. Celestial gives you a +2 on your next turn, this is great because it baits interaction very well 4. Dragoon died to battle, something every deck can manage to do. Dpe dies to graveyard banishing, which is less universal Tldr: Dragoon was a product of ocg environment, and failed here because it was out of its natural habitat
THANK YOU, SOMEONE WITH A BRAIN!!! Literally all you need is Timeus, being an effect dragon and having an effect to fusion using itself, use itself and DM to fusion into dragoon, it's piss easy LMAOOO
I find it funny how dragoon is still banned in the ocg While verte is also banned Also looking at those older decks, wouldn't orcust also be able to out it easily? After ding protects you just go for borrelsword there? Now the answer could be no through tcboo or djinn Almost like floodgates can be game winning on their own against certain decks
He absolutely dominated and can still be summoned with the branded card which are still strong on their own. 9 starter cards BUT no pop and burn effect
Former branded player here- he just isn't good in the deck. If you are summoning anything off Albion, you'd rather summon Mirrorjade because he actually lets you continue your gameplan, or Guardian Chimera if you are stressed for resources and need to mass pop cards. Dragoon just isn't valuable in the deck.
in my area, only 4 people pulled it out of 2 local scenes, 4 Walmarts, and 2 targets Tins those 4 people where the only ones topping we went from a 50-100 man local scene to 10-20 players max I very much disagree that this card flopped, it literally killed my locals lol I am only now getting one thanks to the only decent reprint years later noone wants this card to exist that I know of except my friends who's a Dark magician Stan who thinks it's the greatest thing ever but still can't pull a functional deck out his bum. my locals prefers DPE over it because have way more options to stop it, crow, monste reborn, IDP, ghost Belle, ash, exc exc. if you don't have the out to Dragoon you're better off scooping and going to game 2, DPE was way easier for my area to counter and even easier to get cuz ratios weren't trash.
I haven’t played Yu Gi Oh since Glad Beasts and Lightsworn were the top decks, and now I’m far more interested in MtG - but you putting a Hajime No Ippo clip at the beginning of this video ensured I would watch the whole thing haha
It was played when it was released because it's a strong card, but eventually the bricks weren't worth it. A lot of decks could summon "worse" monsters than Dragoon and accomplish the same without using the Dragoon package. Then came DPE.
I am using this card in my deck. And It is still a great card. Sure I could take it out of my deck, but I can't find anything to replace the cards with. The Normal Monsters aren't that bad to draw most of the time I use then for combo's or even normal summon them.
That's solely because Maxx C shat on literally everything else, and you could use Dragoon to ensure it resolved, all the while being mostly immune to getting Maxx C'd itself.
@@MegaCapitalG ruler, droplets, divine arsenal, accesscode cards to deal with him were expensive as hell back then. His presence on the board was very intimidating, you think all shit this card now I have to such and such you can't tell me you never had that thought at least once are felt some type of way when it hit the field. You can forget about playing a fun deck if that card was on the table cause that card alone would ruin your day poping and negating abd burning and gaining more attack. Dpe was better cause of follow ups and artifact combos in a vacuum dragoon was way better then it aswell.
@@andrepayne4349 lol if only you knew how silly that comment was you just made. The neccessities Needed to deal with that card with that card were not cheap cards you Needed to deal with the card or you got wrecked by it, sounds like a good fucking card to me.
@@redomnitrix6834 Just because some players couldn't afford the cards to out dragoon doesn't take away from the fact that dragoon didn't live up to what we expected when we saw it dominate the OCG. Look at the "RESULTS" dragoon didn't dominate our format yes some decks played it but not as much as what we originally expected. Lastly, price is irrelevant when talking about the success of a card because there were players who could afford those cards to give us the results we needed to determine the success of the card.
Watched the video start to finish. Entirely clickbait title and disingenuous premise. TL;DR: "This card obliterated the OCG meta, but was truly an issue because of Verte. Didn't have as much an impact in TCG cause by the time TCG got Dragoon, many outs had been printed that the OCG didn't have. Also DPE took its 'spot' because it addressed all the 'flaws' Dragoon had (better materials, more useful effect in the given meta environment/floating)." But yeah I mean if we ignore the absolute menace this card was, is (outside of highly competitive play), fact its still OCG and Master Duel Banned... yeah it was a flop, sure.
I spend over half the video discussing its ocg’s domination. However it had no such success in the Tcg despite insanely high expectations. Hence it being unlimited and legal to this day and seeing almost no competitive play (even last format with Verte legal). Did you watch the video prior to commenting ?
@@MegaCapitalG Yes, I did. Yes, you do spend half the video talking about its dominance in OCG- hence i quoted you as saying such in the TL;DR. You then still issue a clickbait title based on a disingenuous premise "Dragoon is a flop (if you ignore multiple factors showing the card is in fact not a flop)". Now, if you'd said "one of the most disappointing TCG releases" or "one of the most powercrept cards" or even "amazing cards that quickly fell from grace" that would be a FAR better title for the video.
@@robdavis8196 The Ocg is simply half a card’s story. Dragoon was not a high tier meta card in the Tcg, basically ever. If it isn’t evident when I say “flop”, that’s relates to Tcg expectations and performance. That’s why I specifically say “Dragoon’s legacy is complicated” at the end of the video.
@@MegaCapitalG Thats why I called the premise disingenuous. You label the card itself a flop. Period, then backtrack saying "well by FLOP I mean only in the TCG. the card itself was amazing but it 'flopped' in the TCG due to these X factors". See? Was/is Yata-Garasu a flop? It dominated early 2000s yugioh, but today its basically useless due to powercreep. "early 2000s yugioh is only half the cards story". To call a card a flop outright to fit a narrative is, as I listed, disingenuous. This would be an AMAZING video if the premise was to outline powercreep and how quickly/effectively it took out a card AS potent as Dragoon.
@@robdavis8196 With all due respect the premise still isn’t faulty I’m just specifying. When Dragoon was revealed no one thought “man this card will dominate the ocg but will do literally nothing here”. The wide overall consensus was that it going to destroy both sides of the game (I could’ve easily included clips to support this from large content creators but the video is almost 20 mins already). Those were the expectations. It flat out didn’t meet those, and to be fair it didn’t come close here. That’s what raises it into “biggest flops ever” territory. I’m not sure what Yata has to do with anything, no one expected Yata to be a competitive powerhouse in 2022. There were no expectations. This is like comparing apples to soda Lastly it doesn’t sound like you actually disagree with anything in the actual video itself. That’s good enough for me
Wow, I thought there was some glitch, I was literally watching that Hajime No Ippo scene before I stumble to your video. I thought the scene I was watching merged with your video I look several times to the title, description and comments to double check then I decided to record screen after that I saw the transition to yugioh then I realized that the boxing scene is part of your video.
@@janithernest3929 yes because you can literally splash dpe in any deck. The requirements to summon don't even require the cards to be on the field or in your hand.
Man you guys are fired up !! And I absolutely love it !! The biggest flops in Yugioh history is an inherently subjective and controversial series by nature (as Will another new series I’m working on).
I provide information on the card’s history, expectations and competitive results and then you ultimately decide.
Time to start working on the third entry
Love the series my guy, it's so informative and it really sets a "Lore" feel to the competitive side of TCG. I'm all for it
@@Chaovoid Thank you ! Check out the first entry on Sea Monster of Theasus
@@MegaCapitalG already did good sir, I'm caught up on this series 👍
CapG Dragoon didn't flop my guy.. It didn't dominate in meta decks obviously, but it pushed MULTIPLE rogue or tier 3 decks to Tier 2 or even Tier 1. Cyber dragons become tier 2 and could put up Dragoon + infinity + another negate + back row FOR FREE WITH JUST 2 EFFECT MONSTERS (Make anaconda > Dragoon with 2 monsters only). Sky Strikers could close out and lock games. PK, Hero, Orcust, and many other decks were buffed by Dragoon and CAME BACK. It didn't dominate like in the OCG but it was still good! MAN DO YOUR RESEARCH!
Great megacapitalg 💫: Brandon Scott thank you 😉
Dragoon had the time to shine thanks to Predeplant Anaconda. I feel like DPE just became more splashable so it took Dragoon's spot.
Well yes, that's EXACTLY what happened. DPE took Dragoons spot because DPE's total package is MUCH better than Dragoons, despite Dragoon being a stronger card.
Cause even the destiny heroes sent to the grave could serve as extenders as oposed to two lv 7 vanillas?
@@trippersigs2248 Fusion Destiny also wasn't a brick the way Red-Eyes Fusion was. You can activate Fusion Destiny from the hand at the end of your combo with no issues (basically the same as going into Bananaconda without having to pay 2k), whereas drawing Red-Eyes Fusion meant it was either Dragoon or your combo.
@@trippersigs2248 I'm not even 100% sure Dragoon is a stronger card. DPE can be harder to get rid of and combo really well with Scythe. Also it destruction might even be better than a negate, given that there are a few negates on board anyway. On the other hand, Eldlich setting their hand, putting a Dragoon and drawing two could be game breaking as well.
I think part of what makes DPE better is that Pred Ana could still get run over by a beatstick if you Dragoon, but DPE could essentially pop it and any other card on the field on summon. And of course, Destiny Heros have more graveyard effects than two normal monsters.
As someone who doesn't Play TCG I've always wondered why the reception for Dragoon has been so mixed between these formats.
It'd be like if Konami decided to wait until Fall 2023 to release the new Ishizu cards. Will that make Ishizu Tear a "bad" deck in the TCG if it just was inaccessible prior to power creep? Especially if Konami decides to print cards that probably were designed for the specific purpose to counter the strategy?
2019-2020-2021 dragoon was bastard cause he was played in everything. had to play him in pendulum even
Maxx C.
The true effects of that card are a LOT more complicated than "it keeps combo decks in check," which isn't even true, but I digress, and it can effect deck building a lot.
A resolved Maxx C is pretty much a death sentence, but Dragoon is an insanely powerful summon even under Maxx C, pretty much guaranteeing survival at the time.
For whatever reason, OCG players LOVE Maxx C, so they hated Dragoon for being able to make a decently strong threat under Maxx C.
On a subtler, but probably no less important note, in a meta game with Maxx C, RE Fusion isn't a brick, because you don't really want to summon anything else under Maxx C.
@@thomaswood8405 For the record, OCG players don't "love" Maxx C, it's just at 3, so they kinda have to tolerate it's existence. As such, the meta of that format's been warped around the card. Dragoon being banned was a result of this format-warping card.
Dragoon was in the meta though for a while until DPE replaced it. I don't see how its a flop, it served its purpose and is more "fair" then DPE due to its bad spell and materials.
L
Considering it was considered the next major boss monster that would change the game it absolutely flopped. It was a niche card in the meta
Yea when it did alot of people were relived u would much rather deal with the inconvience dpe was the the offensive and defensive juggernaut dragoon was he could go crazy by himself he didn't need a artifact sythe combo or anything else
What's dpe?
It was a flop cause it was hyped as arguably the greatest boss monster ever made at that point.
As a newer player without a playset of Ashes or any Droplets or any of the other Dragoon counters, Dragoon was an absolute nightmare for me. One time, I did the full Phantom Knight combo, and my friend just activated Red-Eyes Fusion to win right there. Two burning destructions and then direct attack.
F*cking Bull$#!¡+ (is what i would have said right there right then)
@@Base_Bass_Forte
To me it was a $150 card that felt debilitating to face down at my first locals.
Wow!!! I toadally know what you mean, had similar experience.
I would pick up some ash blossoms. Never seen a card be played so consistently for almost a decade
I think we can all agree, verte anaconda wasn't a flop
Any deck that needed a quick fusion had an answer
I think it is a bit of one because of the fact it was the one that got banned at least In the tcg
@@tylerkister4628 the fact that it got banned means it didn't flop
@@AstralLaVista I mean if you define "flop" as didn't single handedly dominate the entire TCG meta game.. then I guess. Not the definition I'd use
@Jake Folk Verte has been banned for quite a while now. Idk what format you're playing lmao
Dragoon will forever be the terror of locals and casual online matches.
Can't wait for the episode on the entire Vendread archetype next month.
Leave my bois alone
@@Da_Shark f*ck dem game boys; going down. ... zw z
I think mbt’s two videos from when youtube shorts were very telling about the situation where dragoon is theoretically stronger but there already being multiple combo decks ending on multiple negates made it more bricky then dpe. With the dpe float also just super convenient
You forgot to mention DPE's interaction with the Artifact Engine and being far more splashable in control decks thanks to Destiny HERO Celestial...
@@philithegamer8265 that is true but I think it took a little while for the artifact engine to catch on. Though yeah the celestial draw two definitely is worth mentioning and I imagine if DPE didn't have that interaction with Scythe I personally think it probably wouldn't have had the staying power it had.
I remember after I came back to the game, and I was checking out some of the online simulators. I encounter Dragun and within a couple of turns I realized the card was absolutely broken.
Shortly after it came out I was playing traditional format on dueling book (1 of each banned card allowed), my opponent got out dragoon, I baited out its negate, then flipped fiber jar, and spent the rest of the duel trying to explain to my opponent that it neither targeted nor destroyed so dragoon wasn't immune to it. He wouldn't listen and eventually rage quit.
@@ytmndman I don't actually think ANY card is immune to Fiber Jar seeing as its essentially a game reset card
I hope that Red-Eyes or Dark Magician gets another Fusion Spell that can quickly get this out with less restrictions, but not be too splashable so it's played in the deck its designed for. It's my favorite fusion yugioh has ever created tho.
You can say it loud, Red Eyes player here
Agreed. Dragoon is objectively the strongest DM monster, so no longer being able to turbo it out hurts. A Dark Magician fusion that would be searchable with Rod would take Dark Magician to the next level.
@ZL Cloud Dark magician already has that! You can use Eye of Timaeus to summon Dragoon by targeting a literal copy of Dark Magician on your field (super easy to get out) ;) you only get 1 pop per turn tho
Its significantly better because you can also use that spell to go into the other DM staple fusions
For Red eyes players i got nothing, Red Eyes Fusion is just plain terrible due to the whole if it gets ashed your turn is over....
Awww yeaahhhh da red eye's playeuh.! ... is how i felt at first. But then you play Cydras, Yosenjus, Coin deck, Dragunity and a few other funner decks and realize how f*cking boring Red Eye's is. Ow O i mean there's far worst but.... red eye's is like playing yubel... or vampires..... but more boring.... and it's spammed just as much as bewd.... :/
@@xakannax EOT isn’t searchable though. Even being a “Dark Magician” card. You cannot search it with Rod, making it garbage. Dark Magician is the only deck I use. I’ve splashed sky strikers, pure, branded. I’ve tried EOT and it just isn’t that good. The minute you active it, 80% of the time your opponent has a card to chain and remove DM, thus resolving EOT with no effect. It’s happened too many times. You have to open Magicians Souls and EOT on turn 1 going first
I love Dragoon. Even to this day, he is still a very strong boss monster. He absolutely dominated the OCG, and while I was in love with the idea of Dragoon as a Dark Magician fanboy, I was terrified of going up against him in the TCG. Then he finally dropped and...nothing really happened. By the time he came to the TCG, the game had moved into such a combo dominated format that Dragoon was just unnecessary to play. Add to that the TCG was given FAR more outs to Dragoon at this point, and the idea of sorely relying on Dragoon for your win condition proved to already be an out of date strategy once we finally got him.
DPE did exactly what Dragoon was set up to do but failed miserably. Dragoon was an S tier boss with an F tier engine. DPE was an A tier boss with an A tier engine. From a deck building perspective, Dragoon is trash. Two level 7 vanillas and a fusion spell that locks you outta summoning anything else the turn you activate it is just far too debilitating to run for a lot of players as opposed to the DPE engine.
I'm happy to see Dragoon is alive here in the TCG, again, Dark Magician player here. It was disappointing to see he was pretty much dead on arrival here, but that's modern Yugioh power creeped for ya.
Dark Magician player? A man of culture I see. I completely agree with your points here. On paper Dragoon is a great card but it's a shame he never got the opportunity he received in the ocg to shine but its fine. As a DM player myself I personally think it's probably for the best in its own deck though, the problem is relying on Dragoon like so many DM players insist on doing will be a big reason for the decks lack of competitive presence because like you said, relying on it as a boss monster is outdated. At best he's a Red Herring
Hello fellow DM players, I agree the whole notion that Dragoon won you the game on its own completely underestimated the meta. Though to Dragoon's credit, or should I say Verte, that was the last time a DM deck topped a regional if my memory serves me right.
@@LeoCantus oh for sure. DM needs quite the overhaul in terms of cards, cause Dragoon is pretty much the only real win condition we have at this point. And with Konami printing more and more outs to huge bosses like Goons, it's hard to get him to stick to the board.
Literally all I'm asking for is a Dark Magician Fusion spell (similar to Red-Eyes Fusion) so it's searchable off Rod. That would break the DM strategy. Timaeus the United Dragon tried that, and is slightly better now because of Illusion of Chaos, but we need that fusion spell!
I love Dragoon in Dark magician decks hes great! Its nice you can use Eye of Timaeus instead of Red Eyes fusion to avoid the risk of losing a turn
NGL my favorited deck to run Dragoon in was fluffals because they really didnt have any negates otherwise and necro fusion allowed you to get 2 of them while still being good for other fusion summons (dog draws sheep into verte into dragoon was a nice line to start on)
That actually why i hated the verte ban, it was clutch for fusion decks to extend into when out of gas (would've preferred to see Dragoon and DPE banned, or Red Eyes fusion and Fusion Destiny)
I feel like most of the time OCG cards come to the TCG less powerful because more time has passed (new support released, more time for people to figure out counters, etc.) but I wonder if there are examples of the opposite happening where a card from the OCG comes to the TCG more powerful.
I think this is a good testament to show how the OCG and TCG differs from each other when it comes to how cards impacts their respective formats. Cause another good example of this happening was when Crossout Designator was finally released in the TCG. A card that was a staple 3 of in the OCG when released to the point of it being put on the banlist later on, but when released in the TCG, although is still a great card, wasn't as impactful as we originally thought.
Because Maxx C is overpowered. That one card makes all the difference in the metagame.
While Dragoon was an overall flop in the tcg and I get why it didn't really see a lot of success, I can't lie. The card is just badass. A fusion of Dark Magician and Red Eyes? AND it is absolutely stacked with powerful effects? It sounds like a custom card or something straight out of the anime. Great video Cap!
LMAO! This card is just fanservice done right.
I think the main reason for Dragoon's relative failure compared to its dominance in the OCG is, interestingly enough, Maxx "C". I stole this take from Sebto, but in a format with Maxx "C" running rampant, having a good Verte target became a great contigency plan and worth running 2 literal garnets. It's a non-problem in the TCG so why run 2 vanillas when you can run literally any other engine cards?
Also, let me just say that one of the things I love with old Yugitubers like you, Robbie and John is that you guys actually pay attention to OCG stuf when most contemporary players and Yugitubers just dismiss OCG entirely.
i remember using triple tactic talents to steal dragoon on a ygo dueling website and the person cursed me out and said "who even plays that card!?" as i OTK'd him with his own dragoon lol
It depend on format, but yeah before TTT wasn't used. Now it is ×3, cause it is good in the actual format.
honestly speaking ttt looks like either it was supposed to be in arc v or a rush duel card based on design.
I completely forgot it existed
DPE was far less bricky that REDD , while still having really good removal and repeatability.
thats largely due to the difference in the fusion spells tho, red eyes fusion literally bricks your turn if you get ashed when playing it from hand, fusion destiny does not.
Has nothing to do with the fusions or garnet components (nobody is manually summoning dasher, i supposed sometimes you might play celestia?). Objectively Dragoon is much stronger than DPE if it didnt have that massive downside on Red Eyes Fusion
And also gives more card advantage because of celestial
Best way I heard yugioh explained to me recently.
The point of the game of yugioh is to know how to break the game.
Meaning all the rules have no point if the game allows you to break it and create ridiculous and unfair board states.
I’m surprised it didn’t come earlier (the concept of the monster not it’s effects) a fusion of Dark Magician and Red Eyes Yugi and Joey’s monsters beat bros coming together just seems obvious to me
Well they’ve done the concept before(Black Skull Dragon and Dark Flare Knight). Dragoon was just so good that people talk about it more. Considering how much Konami loves Yugi and Joey, I wouldn’t be surprised if we got another fusion card just for Dragoon
@@catsorafgc that’d be fun lol maybe someday we’ll also get a dark magician X blue eyes card and something for the rivals Yugi (or Atem) and Kaiba
People also forget that anyone with a rank 4 toolbox and extra deck space can run Utopia The Lightning and run over it
they can negate the effect of Utopia the Lightning to gain attack during the damage step fwiw so youd have to bait it first (also dragoon gets 1000 atk per use so you have a narrow window)
it is a good counter tho and every rank 4 XYZ deck should have that bc of shit like Dragoon and Chaos Max
@@xakannax "If this card battles, your opponent cannot activate cards or effects until the end of the Damage Step."
So no, Dragoon cannot negate Utopia the Lightning.
@@e-tan3911 that's why I use Lightning in my Master Duel decks
Crazy to pull a 15$ Dragoon nowadays when he used to be 100$ easy
For those confused about why dragoon is a failure when its so strong, remember this is talking on the competitive level in a 2 of 3 format, not randoms turboing it out in simulators in a best of one.
Also to be more specific were talking more on the TCG side
It's still a game ending card
flop meaning it did not live up to expectations as well. We thought we would have to stop playing the game until it got banned tbh, it just seemed so scary before it was dropped in tcg.
@@joshcavins1477 no
@@andrepayne4349 yes it is if it is backed up by other cards yes it is
I’d say that the main difference between dragoon, who was niche at best, and DPE, who contributed to the verte ban, was splashability. Although dragoon has great protection and good effects, the restrictions from its fusion spell and how useless its materials are meant that dpe was bound to replace it. TCG players were given the choice between a negate+effect destruction+burn damage with useless materials in the graveyard and a disruption+free monster+POT OF GREED. Unsurprisingly, they chose the latter.
And DPE had far better interactions with the other cards at your disposal like the Artofact Engine along with being able to go plus with it every turn, unlike Dragoon where you had to go minus 1 to activate its omni-negate, this isn't even bringing up the good Destiny HEROes having great effects when they hit the graveyard that alos make you go plus. DPE + Fusion Destiny + Verte offers way too much utility for so little cost.
If the legendary dragons ever get a searcher then Dragoon could become meta again
I love Dagoon but Konami needs to support Red-Eyes, it needs real good cards not cards that make every other deck good.
Dragoon is probably more of a DM card anyway, its a good card in a bad deck basically
@@exiaR2x78 agreed
it’s even more blatantly for Dark Magician since it’s the card needed, you don’t even have to use red eyes
Honestly by the time we got it, the format changed and we got outs (i.e. droplet and tactics) that the ocg didn't have.
Didn't help that DPE was going to be released within a year and Fusion Destiny has zero downsides unlike Red-Eyes Fusion. If Fusion Destiny was just as restrictive I highly doubt most decks would have played DPE over Dragoon. And both engines only saw wide stream play because Verte allowed degenerative strategy like that.
DPE would still be better because it gives you far better followups than Dragoon.
I definitely think having Maxx C in the format was a lot bigger for Dragoon than you gave it credit for. If they drop Maxx C on you, you can just make Anaconda and sit on a super hard to out Dragoon while giving the opponent minimal draws. Comparing it to the TCGs much faster pace where you don't have to worry about it, these combo decks can just make a bigger board with more monsters without the 2-3 bricks that hurt the consistency of any deck trying to incorporate it. Also good luck trying to push through an omni + a towers while your opponent draws for every play you make.
Yep, this is a huge one. Maxx C forces OCG players to have "middle ground" stop points and Dragoon is one of the best go-to for that. It's the same as Tearlaments in TCG today. Time Thief Redoer is one of the best cards for the OCG because it's a good stopping point, but you see most Tear decks dropping Redoer because it doesn't combo hard enough.
@@Avermra TCG lists never drop redoer, the card is good because it detaches for effect and let's you trigger tears on the opponents turn. They don't need middle grounds either, it's why halqifibrax got banned.
That's not a good argument when you need to hard draw Maxx C.
@@andrepayne4349 Maxx C is at 3 in the OCG. Pretty easy to hard draw it in your opener. Same chances as opening ash or Imperm. Both of which are cards that single handedly stop entire archetypes from making it past rogue status.
@@JudojugsVtuber there's more cards that stop Maxx C than the 3 Maxx C you can play in the deck. And meta decks have plenty of space for it.
I use dragoon in my branded eldlich dogmatika deck using only a light hex sealed since it fits perfectly and has less bricks than regular dragoon engine
I just play Master Duel and I'm blown away that this card is banned in the game yet Chaos Max Dragon is allowed.
Chaos Max does nothing on the board. Does it have a lot of attack? Yes. Does it have good protection? Yes. But the fact that it effectively does nothing on your turn while you set up a multitude of ways to get around it makes the card simply bad in most scenarios. What does Chaos Max do going first? Sit there while you summon Mirrorjade or Zeus and just blow it up. At least Dragoon comes with a negate to have some form of interaction.
If anything it'll be a great promotional card for a future movie where Yugi and Joey tag team.
I’ll always love Dark Magician and it’s many and varied support, and I’d still love to get a Dragoon for myself. It may not be as fearsome as it was in the OCG but it’s still fairly good and really cool. That’s all I need.
With its price finally dropping into my price ranges, I definitely got 2 of them for my Dark Magician Deck.
I bought one when they were down to $30 a long time ago.
I honestly want a fusion between Dark Magician and Blue Eyes to be just as powerful if not more powerful ! I don't care if it get band immediately, it needs to be just that good !
Blue eyes, brilliant dragoon xD
Wouldn't really make sense from a story standpoint or in terms of synergy. A Dragon Master Knight retrain might work as BLS did previously have a fusion with it, and it's the more equal rival to Blue Eyes. It just needs to be easier to summon.
Dragoon on it's own was not much of a problem because dedicating your whole deck to a boss Monster Turbo has, historically, never worked out. Dragoon was mainly an issue when paired with other threats such as negations, interruptions and floodgates. It made combo decks much more threatening but this was at the time where there was a wide range of going second cards, which could either break boards or stop them from combo-ing off.
DPE was more fashionable because it was a more versatile Monster which allowed for some recursion for a grind game. It's garnets weren't as bad as DM Vanillas and Fusion Destiny wasn't the worst thing to draw compared to Red-Eyes Fusion. Quickplay Scrap Dragon wasn't broken but on top of everything else, it could just add that little push more.
I mean Dragoon actually has a negation built into it, if only that negation discarded for effect instead of cost it would be more useful. I've only been in casual games since 2017 and haven't seen a tournament in ages, but while getting stuck with parts of your engine and not being able to bring Dragoon is bad, I think it's pretty good if you manage to bring it out. If you can bring it out and set Imperial Iron Wall, Recall, and Mind Crush, I think your chances of winning are probably greater than 30 to 1 if you have at least 6000 LP and more LP than your opponent and at least 7 to 1 in other cases you get Dragoon out. But most engines that can turbo Dragoon out are thin on backrow. This kind of reminds me of Number C88: Gimmick Puppet Disaster Leo. If you can get that thing out with 3 good backrow cards, you've probably won (your opponent will likely be burned to death before the instant win effect). But most Gimmick Puppet decks can't turbo out the base form Leo and have backrow left unless oyu have more than 40 cards in the deck, which runs into consistency problems.
Or that dragoon flopped because TCG players actually play boardbreakers because no maxx c unlike the OCG.
"Dedicating your whole deck to a boss Monster Turbo has, historically, never worked out."
but that's basically every deck
If you mean one specific monster then, uh... TeleDAD?
So could we get him master duel now??????
Obviously you didn’t play it in a Drytron deck which could get Dragoon with no issues.
Also it is worth mentioning that when Dragoon was released in OCG, it's strongest variant (namely Dijinn-Lock Dragoon) was viable as "Dijinn Releaser of Rituals" was safe from the banlist. Also during that period, there weren't any Forbidden Droplet or Triple Tactics Talent there, combine with maxx C, Dragoon was extremely broken
Flatout cancer!
i dont think dragoon was an issue for the high tier meta decks in the tcg but when u got to tier 2 or rogue decks it would be a game ender immediately to see it now its not an issue at all bc of how spright and tear raised the power ceiling for the game
Wow. It only took 3 years to change your opinon on a broken card. Shows how fast paced the development for YuGi is.
Just started the video, but YOOO LETS GO IPPOOOOO
Even if people don't believe it "flopped", it DID ( _HOWEVER_ ) "underperform" unlike in the OCG when it released over there. People expected Dragoon to BASICALLY ruin the TCG but given the difference in product/card releases, it wouldn't QUITE pan out the same way.
That's not to say Dragoon isn't an insane card. I'm pretty sure a lot of rogue strategies that didn't have a built in out HATED this card (and still do)
Can confirm. Honestly, as a pure/plant eccentric rikka player dragoon is still a hassle
But honestly, without verte it's w/e and I don't recall it seeing any play outside of the intended decks until people remembered verte was a card.
When dragoon really started taking off DPE was around the corner, *(Thanks alot for that verte, making it painful to play D-heroes)* and dpe ENGINE better than dragoon ENGINE
TL;DR. Dragoon under delivered versus actually flopped and the real star for both monsters was *verte* (fuck verte, won't be missed)
It didn't. Covid flopped a lot of cards and deck though. Cause of that decks and cards flopped, but not them themselves, cause people can't play them when they was locked in their house.
Your right about it not being such a big case though, we get a lot of out now, but, well that the same for all cards lol.
@@darkdestroyer4228 Covid was not the reason Dragoon flopped. By the time it was released remote duel YCS' were already in full swing, and fan made online events were going on as well. Even in those events, Dragoon underperformed.
The main thing this video taught me was that players don't like when a game is fair. And will only use cards that can't be stopped.
I don't think its a flop... The fact that we banned it in the OCG due to his annoying negates and kinda likea big beater (yes i know dpe package is better thanks to celestial and dpe being a floating removal) so he did his job well
There were already so many outs to it before it released, it's not worth banning. Thats why OCG lost some credibility for me.
And Ocg barely played super strong decks like adamancipator with halq and block dragon. Maxx C is not an excuse.
@@andrepayne4349 adamancipators isn't really a big "threat" in OCG... that time Orcust were dominant... And we main deck D.D. Crow so even if rocks got the early combo once they dump block dragon in GY... Bye bye
Well they banned red eyes fusion in tcg, this was only for getting dragoon less used (and that work as we never really see it again in tournament, even in locals).
The "so easy to out lol" argument that other say is absolutly absurd, every cards is easy to out now, we just need the right card in hand at the good moment, like for dragoon, mystic mine, dpe, vfd, avramax (even coupled with ip masquerena), beelzeus (which is not even used anymore but was considered overpowered in the past lol) ect, saying that about a specific card is a casual-player argument, which is so not a real one as it is the same for everything.
Dragoon from the mp22 is still in top selling though at 15$ (and I remember at his begining, when it cost 70$, then 50, and didn't go more down than 40 before this reprint)
@@darkdestroyer4228 I dont know why you're only talking about cards you need to hard draw, but there's also a billion extra deck cards that easily out Dragoon. So it was powercrept before it was even released. Definitely a flop.
@@rinkujoka232 TCG considers adamancipator with block dragon and halq to be the best deck in the history of this game so far.
According to road of the king Ocg even played nerfed Zoodiac decks over adamancipator when linkross was legal, which is insane.
Was just wondering where ya been. Mega.
Good to see you.
pardon me, just gonna preemptively like the video
Wish redeyes got a huge overhaul to make the deck better so you can use it with dragoon like it was intended
He shows up alot in Branded Despia now, so a bit less of a flop.
I was toadally saying the same thing 😅
Thanks for showcasing my replay on your channel
I used Dragoon in my Twighlight Thunder Dragons deck. Got many great plays outta him and if I couldn't use his materials with Anaconda, no problem! I ran Allure of Darkness with Chaos Creator so they synergized well! Luckily Dragoon has a home with my Despias!
actual question how do you make dragoon consistently in despia (sounds spicey)? Albion and Lubellion both require you to have the materials in grave/field/ban to use, are you hard drawing Dark Magician / a fusion substitute to do this? or is there another card im not thinking of? (assuming Albaz is the dragon, but not sure how you get the "Dark Magician" part reliably)
Typically dragoon is cheated out with albaz or the hex replacing dark magician. The dragon effect monsters allows for some generic alcards
Dragoon is a late game card in those games. Helps achieve the win in the end game (unless you're under skill drain, which has happened in a few rounds i',ve been in )🙃
I just don’t think any boss monster would be that scary unless it can’t be tributed. In a world where Kailu, sphere mode and lava golem are a thing, boss monsters just don’t seem particularly scary……..
Well for a expensive card (still 15$ here with the mp22 reprint) and a very used cards before red eyes fusion ban it really doesn't look like a flop lol.
@@asimhussain8716 I play at competitive condition, I didn't need casual noob for know what is what kiddo.
And no I didn't look at it more than 10sec, cause I don't need it :) youtube just get random shit when switching, well random video after I watch one of the european champion one, and that one was stupid.
And yeah, being at 15-80$ and being in the top 10 of selling cards (no stupid collector buyers in the site) don't mean anything, yes sure genious, and they did ban anaconda verte only for dpe which is still used in contrario of dragoon lol.
I want the next big Yugioh anime villian to wield Dragoon, it would be sick.
Dragoon experienced the same problem every card eventually faces: power creep.
Power creep had nothing to do with it, Dragoon was and is STILL an insanely strong boss monster. It just isnt nearly as generic and splashable as people wanted it to be. It requires too many bad cards to use. Dragoon has in no way been power crept.
@@trippersigs2248 naw they just printed to many counter to dragoon ,
@@trippersigs2248 This is facts everyone said if they ban DPE and anaconda still legal everyone would use Dragoon.
@@trippersigs2248 Dragoon was powercrept before it was even released, there's a billion outs for it.
3 mins to the video
"Did Dragoon need that effect too?"
Turns out Yes, thats unironically actually its best effect lmao
Honestly dragoon should absolutely be in master duel. I'm bamboozled that we had dpe for months and recently a bit of a slap on the wrist from the ban list, while the far more "balanced" dragoon is missing
Dragoon is in Master Duel its just on the ban list, once they eventually ban verte itll probably come off (really glad its not in game that card toxic af)
Dragoon is arguably stronger than DPE and just as toxic neither card is good for the game :P
I HATE Dragoon! That card is so stupid
Loved the Ippo reference at the very start!
Honestly it's interesting to me how in a way the tcg wants to keep things as inconsistent as possible to try and make healthy metas, while the Ocg wants the power ceiling as low as reasonable possible to make healthy meta's.
ngl, it feels weird that a card that is banned in the OCG is effectively unplayable in the TCG, but that is just how regional cookie crumbles lol
Dragoon was a lot like 2017 DDDs, it had success but only for a brief moment.
Tbh I might make a video about that deck
@@MegaCapitalG that would be awesome
I am sorry CapG, but saying that Dragoon is a flop is very insulting, and I disagree. (Worth to note I am just 1 min in the video and I prefer to write my comment now)
I know it is for TCG, but Dragoon was format wreckking in OCG land, I dare you to go check how the format was back then, every single deck was playing the package with anaconda. to a point where OCG limited anaconda, REF AND Dragoon. The card is definitely not a flop, the fact we got it late is what made it "powercrept" plus the non existance of Maxx"c" over here. and even tho, Dragoon was very relevant when it was release, not as OCG but it definitely made an impact and I do remmeber people put it on their list, ban list prediction back then (no one was considering anaconda as a problematic card)
what really damaged dragoon, is the fact we got it late AND that we got AFTER droplet was released x\ Droplet is a boss killer, the card manages to kill any boss monster (except the unaffected ones) and for me, it changed the game as much as the promo of 2020 mega tins (the nibiru ones). droplet, lightning storm, ruler all this card allowed us to shift into a new era of YGO.
so, I feel it is too disrespectful to say that Dragoon is a flop while there was way worse than him plus the card is still good, I am confident it will raise again. (friendly reminder, REF is THE worst fusion spell that ever existed, imagine this card being released after shaddoll fusion lmao, it is just sad how Konami are "racist" toward the deck)
I don’t think the card ”Flopped”
When I think of “Flop”
I’m thinking stuff like Spell Counters and Silent magician level 4.
I would say that Red-Eyes Dark Dragoon "underperformed" (at least compared to the performance in the OCG at the time)
Spell Counters actually didn't flop. Endymion was a strong rogue deck all the way up until Electrumite got banned
I just wanna use him in Red-Eyes decks on master duel. I love the card and everything about it.
DPE outshined Dragoon.
For as overtuned and aggressive Dragoon had been, DPE having that revival removal is what I'd say is the more valuable effect. Verte is totally the problem card the same way I'd say Bahamut Shark as the Toad enabler is broken the same way Ptolemaeus got banned so long ago for giving any deck CDI. Insane bosses are fine... in bad decks, is a neat idea.
Thank you for making this video! I remember when other Yugi tubers were saying Dragoon would wake the format, and it never did
What does "wake the format" mean.? Unstale it.???
@@Base_Bass_Forte I assume it was "break the format" but there was a typo and an autocorrect error.
Dragoon was crazy for a time, but that time happened to be around the halting of paper play caused by covid. There were reasonable arguments made why DPE wad worse than Dragoon -- those arguments just were proved wrong almost immediately. And now with Verte gone, Dragoon is an afterthought best left to more casual DM and REBD decks
You said it all friend. The only card, as I competitive player, I was afraid for a time was vfd. New I'm only worried about my draw, cause mystic mine rules again and it is easy to out but we need the card in the hand at the right moment lol (or have a possibility to get the same number as the opponent, which is not difficult too though)
Until Branded Fusion comes to play.
Dragoon didn’t flop. At all. Trying to say it did in any capacity is dumb. Dragoon splashed directly into the meta and shifted the entire meta until it got banned. I’m not sure how you can say it flopped after saying the format revolved around it right until it was banned.
By the time it was unbanned the meta had moved into a state where Dragoon and cards like it simply aren’t as powerful because we got more outs. That’s why DPE is played over it, DPE is infinitely easier to get on board and far more consistent while filling the same role with a softer summoning requirement. If Dragoon didn’t require Red-Eyes cards to play then it would be a hot debate between DPE and Dragoon in deck building.
I wouldn't call dragoon a flop...they just brought out something more splashable in the form of dpe...also red-eyes fusion isn't the greatest card considering it shuts off your special summon for the rest of the turn...vs destiny fusion which just nukes the monster summoned after the next turn
Red Eyes Fustion was far more restrictive. Only if you used it with Anaconda would effect apply for the rest of the turn. If you raw activated that card, you didn't summon for the entire turn. Before or after the card's activation. So if that effect was negated, you just couldn't summon for the rest of your turn.
@@blackmark2899 anaconda stopped you special summoning for the rest of the turn as well but you could get around the "cannot summon anything else at all" part of red-eyes fusion...which to be fair was I believe the first fusion card that could use materials from deck (either red-eyes or shaddoll had that first if I'm remembering right), imo it needs a retrain to be more modern friendly and if they do that then it would definitely be a viable boss monster for red-eyes and maybe even meta viable
@@crimsonshadow1477 that's...what I just typed in the previous post.
Really shows what a bad place the game is in when a card that's crazy good and sounds like bad fanfiction was barely a sneeze to most decks, and was replaced by something even better so quickly.
Because the card itself doesn't suck, but everything around it does. You basically are forced to run 3 garnets to get this guy out, and these garnets don't give you any help at all like the DPE engine did. If this guy had better materials and a better fusion spell, like DPE did, he'd have been busted.
@@e-tan3911 even the fusion spell might be enough
Like fusion destiny is a card you "want" to draw, since you can just activate it at the end of the turn and use the bodies that would be verte material for something else, if ref was similar dragoon might've been more competitive, especially after vw and drytron got dealt with
I still like this card. Works well with my HEROs.
I haven't played yugioh in years but this was in my recommended. I loved the red eyes black dragon cards but this seems a bit too much
RUclips algorithm op. Consider checking out some of my other videos !
In my Goukis REDD and Anaconda allowed me to add an omninegate to my opening board (which is somewhat hard to come by in a link deck), but it wasn't very useful after that.
I think that alot of hate towards Red-Eyes Dark Dragoon comes partly from Verte Anaconda and Fusion Summoning from the deck. In the case of Verte, it was a generic Link-2 (so very easy to summon) with an effect to by pass card restrictions and copy effects, which is not good for balanced card design. Fusion Summoning from the deck has been a problem. Pre-errate Future Fusion was busted. Shaddolls was meta for a good time and still fairly rogue. Brilliant Fusion saw play for years. Branded Fusion is being abused, now. All-in-all it is a mechanic which is on a slippery slope which is heavily unbalanced. I know Fusion is an old mechanic which needs support to make it playable but just breaking it open like this is not the answer.
100% right with your post. That's why I like Frightfur/Fuffal/Edge Imp. It's a quick and explosive Fusion Deck that's great at turboing Fusions out with zero need of a Shadoll Fusion-esqe card. It does it the old fashion way of mainly relying on Polymerization.
Sraight up knew that Verte Anaconda was gonna be a card balancing nightmare after reading its effects for the first time.
Dragoon is power crept in TCG right now. Droplet, talents, Zeus, IDP, Spright smashers, mystic mine, etc get around it to name a few.
Honestly even without the trash materials and fusion spell required dragoon was pretty mediocre as a standalone boss monster due to how many outs to it exist in today's meta, and not just "draw the out" style outs that make people hate mystic mine and other floodgates but easily accessible boss monsters both archetypal as well as generic ones(looking at you accesscode). Even when branded fusion was revealed and gave dragoon a much better way to summon it people quickly realised it was just not worth it and shifted their focus back to mirrorjade.
It could highkey be unbanned tomorrow in master duel and people wouldn't bat an eye, the funniest thing is people would probably only use it as branded in high spirits fodder in shaddoll or witchcrafter as it's the only spellcaster target for now that we don't have master of chaos.
it annoys me that dragoon isn't legal in MD because I play loads of midrange decks that would LOVE to sit on Dragoon. Or even some of my control decks like traptrix could make good use of the card.
@@JudojugsVtuber once verte gets banned in MD then dragoon can comeback
@@janithernest3929 Lmao dragoon doesn't need verte to be banned to come back. If dpe can exist than Dragoon can exist.
@@JudojugsVtuber both card are incredibly toxic, neither is good for the game in a BO1 format both should be on ban list. Its a huge blessing Dragoon is not avail
kinda hoping they ban DPE too and keep verte, would be nice to have it legal somewhere since its a based fusion support card that got abused by meta decks purely because DPE and Dragoon exist
"Red eyes fusion required" literally any card like timeus which is an effect dragon that can use its own effect to fusion into dragoon is typing lol
In short, Dragoon took advantage of the lack of tools to face it on the OCG, but then crashed straight into a wall when everything and their mother had at the very least 1 searchable or easily summoned way to take care of the card. It still looks absolutely broken, nobody can deny that, but its primary strength came from the fact that nobody - not even the game itself - was ready for it.
Dragoon is probably one support away from a resurgence, but I doubt Konami will make the Verte mistake twice, so hopes for that are scarce.
Red-Eyes Black Dragon specifically would need to get the same Level of support as Dark Magician and Blue-Eyes White Dragon, but Konami keeps shitting on the card and never gave him that support. To me if that happens, there would be some type of Deck that will have Dragoon be a surprise factor and you would just need either Nib, DRNM, Forbidden Droplets still but you would have have give up a bunch of cards,, Divine Incarnate (newly released), and those are just a few that counters a ridiculous board with Dragoon. Konami wouldn't powercreep Red-Eyes Fusion due to Red-Eyes in general getting recent support in the OCG that involves the Fusion Spell, so the next best thing is something like Muddy Mudragon, Invocation, Necro Fusion, Ultra Poly, or even Fallen of Albaz as it's a Dragon Effect Monster that can be used as material for Dragoon; however, Super Poly is the better option if your not a combo deck.
Dark Magician Decks have Eye of Timaeus to summon Dragoon with no downside fwiw, but you right actual red eyes decks are boned due to Red Eyes Fusion being so incredibly bad for you when ashed
Necro fusion is really good option if you can GY a dragon and a dark magician/fusion substitute card in any deck (provided the deck uses fusions anyway so its not dead otherwise) Toss king of the swamp or something in red eyes it could work
dragoon had its time with verte, but once that was banned it became a card that required a specific spell and 2 garnets.
I did leave the game during 2012/2013. Seing now that cards like that getting printed just lets me shake my head. Its sad to see what this game has become.
Same time I stopped but still I keep in touch with the news surrroding my favorite archetypes . Game is so fast boring nowadays , that if you don't make a huge board 1/3 of your deck used in 1 F ING turn it's game over -_- ,. And a card don't search or pop shit ain't worth playing
The exact problem with Dragoon alone was just how bloated the card was, the actual problem was (and arguably still is) Verte anaconda. If Dragoon was more accessible like the build of Branded Despia that could summon it, it would be entirely broken.
Though really, the underlying problem of Yu-Gi-Oh is the powercreep where an untargetable, indestructible, negating beatstick is now considered unviable.
Verte wasnt actually the real problem tho, the problem was 1 card fusion spells that let anyone splash Dragoon, DPE etc into their decks with verte (Although DPE is still played because Fusion Destiny has no downside to cast from hand unlike Red Eyes Fusion). And cards like Dragoon and DPE being printed that are so strong every single deck wants to run them.
Verte by itself was an extremely based card for fusion decks that let you extend through negates and activate your fusion spells from deck if needed. It was really unfortunate the card got banned it lead to some great plays. If they had instead banned Dragoon and DPE (or Red Eyes Fusion and Fusion Destiny) the card really wouldnt be used outside of fusion decks as a top support card (unless maybe you run super poly)
I feel like there's another difference between the OCG and TCG worth mentioning: The OCG has Maxx "C". If you don't want to continue the Maxx "C" Challenge, and only do one Special Summon, few monsters can do as much for that one Special Summon as Dragoon can. That pressure does not exist in the TCG.
Everyone gangsta until Dragoon drops and you don't have the outs.
I use to want this card banned man how naive I was
i still want it banned
L
dragoon in cyber dragon was pretty lit, in adventure format, that card, lagit won me games, i still run dragoon in branded as a burn option
Yeah dragoon was totally a flop, but there's a couple more things that definitely contributed to it failing.
1. Don't trust ocg results
Ocg results are a poor representation of how good a deck is going to be, they include much smaller tournaments and the general way that people build their decks are different, with ocg players more heavily valuing explosively, which makes sense in a shorter tournament structure.
2. Dragoon doesn't actually win the game
Dragoon is very good when backed up by other cards... and less so when it's just Dragoon. Many of the Dragoon decks in the ocg were focused on using Dragoon to answer the normal summon of a Playstarter exactly, which happened to be what most decks in the ocg relied on at that time. Infact, it was played in Orcust specifically so that they could negate in the mirror. It was something you played as a bonus, and that's hard to justify.
3. 3 bricks in your deck is a high price in the tcg
In the much shorter ocg tournaments, playing 3 bricks isn't a big deal, after all, you're probably gonna only see 1 over the course of a match. In the tcg, you're going to open all 3 at least once due to the higher amount of rounds. It came up, frequently.
4. Verte sucks ass
Verte has 500 attack, easiest Zeus summon of my life.
5. What dpe did right
Dpe was much better for the following reasons
1. Dragoon was a 1 for 1 in card advantage, dpe gave you a +1 every turn
2. Drawing fusion destiny wasn't bad, it represented a free interruption
3. Celestial gives you a +2 on your next turn, this is great because it baits interaction very well
4. Dragoon died to battle, something every deck can manage to do. Dpe dies to graveyard banishing, which is less universal
Tldr: Dragoon was a product of ocg environment, and failed here because it was out of its natural habitat
Dragoon now found a home in dedicated Dark Magician decks. He's stupid easy to summon in the archtype, and he acts like a came closer or a plan B. :)
THANK YOU, SOMEONE WITH A BRAIN!!!
Literally all you need is Timeus, being an effect dragon and having an effect to fusion using itself, use itself and DM to fusion into dragoon, it's piss easy LMAOOO
I find it funny how dragoon is still banned in the ocg
While verte is also banned
Also looking at those older decks, wouldn't orcust also be able to out it easily? After ding protects you just go for borrelsword there?
Now the answer could be no through tcboo or djinn
Almost like floodgates can be game winning on their own against certain decks
Oh the number of duels I lost BECAUSE of Dragoon, hate him with a passion alongside Ash Blossom.
DPE made Dragoon flop IMO
L
@@ftbslayter9017 I agree. L is a great character from Death Note
He absolutely dominated and can still be summoned with the branded card which are still strong on their own. 9 starter cards BUT no pop and burn effect
Former branded player here- he just isn't good in the deck. If you are summoning anything off Albion, you'd rather summon Mirrorjade because he actually lets you continue your gameplan, or Guardian Chimera if you are stressed for resources and need to mass pop cards. Dragoon just isn't valuable in the deck.
in my area, only 4 people pulled it out of 2 local scenes, 4 Walmarts, and 2 targets Tins those 4 people where the only ones topping we went from a 50-100 man local scene to 10-20 players max
I very much disagree that this card flopped, it literally killed my locals lol
I am only now getting one thanks to the only decent reprint years later noone wants this card to exist that I know of except my friends who's a Dark magician Stan who thinks it's the greatest thing ever but still can't pull a functional deck out his bum.
my locals prefers DPE over it because have way more options to stop it, crow, monste reborn, IDP, ghost Belle, ash, exc exc. if you don't have the out to Dragoon you're better off scooping and going to game 2, DPE was way easier for my area to counter and even easier to get cuz ratios weren't trash.
I haven’t played Yu Gi Oh since Glad Beasts and Lightsworn were the top decks, and now I’m far more interested in MtG - but you putting a Hajime No Ippo clip at the beginning of this video ensured I would watch the whole thing haha
I wouldn't call this a flop. I'd call it so powerful they had to introduce half a dozen new ways to beat it.
No not really, it's mostly an ocg vs tcg mentality issue
Even something like orcust can beat it with borrelsword
@@andrejv.2834 Well, yeah, that's certainly part of it too.
@@andrejv.2834 Orcust could just pop it with Dingirsu.
@@e-tan3911 ding is gonna get negated here, so after that you make borrelsword
@@andrejv.2834 Fair, but that's why you just bait the negate first 5head.
It was played when it was released because it's a strong card, but eventually the bricks weren't worth it.
A lot of decks could summon "worse" monsters than Dragoon and accomplish the same without using the Dragoon package.
Then came DPE.
I am using this card in my deck. And It is still a great card.
Sure I could take it out of my deck, but I can't find anything to replace the cards with.
The Normal Monsters aren't that bad to draw most of the time I use then for combo's or even normal summon them.
L
A new MegaCapitalG TCG video? Work be damned, count me in.
It did not flop in the ocg. It was a menace
Yeah it was Tier 0 over there
L
That's solely because Maxx C shat on literally everything else, and you could use Dragoon to ensure it resolved, all the while being mostly immune to getting Maxx C'd itself.
I wish DPE and dragoon had to be played in their respective decks.
Dude this card was dominating and very opressive and could pick a part decks by itself you making it sound like a card that flopped on release
In the Tcg I don’t it dominated anything, ever. ROTD gave us way too many outs by the time Dragoon was released
@@MegaCapitalG ruler, droplets, divine arsenal, accesscode cards to deal with him were expensive as hell back then. His presence on the board was very intimidating, you think all shit this card now I have to such and such you can't tell me you never had that thought at least once are felt some type of way when it hit the field. You can forget about playing a fun deck if that card was on the table cause that card alone would ruin your day poping and negating abd burning and gaining more attack. Dpe was better cause of follow ups and artifact combos in a vacuum dragoon was way better then it aswell.
@@redomnitrix6834 Just because you can't afford the outs doesn't make a card good.
@@andrepayne4349 lol if only you knew how silly that comment was you just made. The neccessities Needed to deal with that card with that card were not cheap cards you Needed to deal with the card or you got wrecked by it, sounds like a good fucking card to me.
@@redomnitrix6834 Just because some players couldn't afford the cards to out dragoon doesn't take away from the fact that dragoon didn't live up to what we expected when we saw it dominate the OCG. Look at the "RESULTS" dragoon didn't dominate our format yes some decks played it but not as much as what we originally expected. Lastly, price is irrelevant when talking about the success of a card because there were players who could afford those cards to give us the results we needed to determine the success of the card.
now give us blue eyes light dragoon
Watched the video start to finish.
Entirely clickbait title and disingenuous premise.
TL;DR: "This card obliterated the OCG meta, but was truly an issue because of Verte. Didn't have as much an impact in TCG cause by the time TCG got Dragoon, many outs had been printed that the OCG didn't have. Also DPE took its 'spot' because it addressed all the 'flaws' Dragoon had (better materials, more useful effect in the given meta environment/floating)."
But yeah I mean if we ignore the absolute menace this card was, is (outside of highly competitive play), fact its still OCG and Master Duel Banned... yeah it was a flop, sure.
I spend over half the video discussing its ocg’s domination. However it had no such success in the Tcg despite insanely high expectations. Hence it being unlimited and legal to this day and seeing almost no competitive play (even last format with Verte legal).
Did you watch the video prior to commenting ?
@@MegaCapitalG Yes, I did.
Yes, you do spend half the video talking about its dominance in OCG- hence i quoted you as saying such in the TL;DR. You then still issue a clickbait title based on a disingenuous premise "Dragoon is a flop (if you ignore multiple factors showing the card is in fact not a flop)".
Now, if you'd said "one of the most disappointing TCG releases" or "one of the most powercrept cards" or even "amazing cards that quickly fell from grace" that would be a FAR better title for the video.
@@robdavis8196 The Ocg is simply half a card’s story. Dragoon was not a high tier meta card in the Tcg, basically ever. If it isn’t evident when I say “flop”, that’s relates to Tcg expectations and performance. That’s why I specifically say “Dragoon’s legacy is complicated” at the end of the video.
@@MegaCapitalG Thats why I called the premise disingenuous. You label the card itself a flop. Period, then backtrack saying "well by FLOP I mean only in the TCG. the card itself was amazing but it 'flopped' in the TCG due to these X factors". See?
Was/is Yata-Garasu a flop? It dominated early 2000s yugioh, but today its basically useless due to powercreep. "early 2000s yugioh is only half the cards story". To call a card a flop outright to fit a narrative is, as I listed, disingenuous. This would be an AMAZING video if the premise was to outline powercreep and how quickly/effectively it took out a card AS potent as Dragoon.
@@robdavis8196 With all due respect the premise still isn’t faulty I’m just specifying. When Dragoon was revealed no one thought “man this card will dominate the ocg but will do literally nothing here”. The wide overall consensus was that it going to destroy both sides of the game (I could’ve easily included clips to support this from large content creators but the video is almost 20 mins already). Those were the expectations. It flat out didn’t meet those, and to be fair it didn’t come close here. That’s what raises it into “biggest flops ever” territory.
I’m not sure what Yata has to do with anything, no one expected Yata to be a competitive powerhouse in 2022. There were no expectations. This is like comparing apples to soda
Lastly it doesn’t sound like you actually disagree with anything in the actual video itself. That’s good enough for me
Wow, I thought there was some glitch, I was literally watching that Hajime No Ippo scene before I stumble to your video. I thought the scene I was watching merged with your video I look several times to the title, description and comments to double check then I decided to record screen after that I saw the transition to yugioh then I realized that the boxing scene is part of your video.
Dragoon didn’t flop, it was strong and dictated the way people played for a while.
I’d respectfully dispute both of those arguments.
@@MegaCapitalG and I would have to respectfully tell you your wrong. let's just be honest; you wouldn't be making this video If Verte wasent banned.
@@TWBThrillersWithBananas ppl would just play DPE instead if verte was still legal
@@janithernest3929 yes because you can literally splash dpe in any deck. The requirements to summon don't even require the cards to be on the field or in your hand.
@@TWBThrillersWithBananas I think people would still choose DPE cause the engine for DPE is much better than 2 vanilla 🧱