Another final boss that simply cannot be adequately described within the 5000-character description limit. A summary of how I made it here with a level 86 Nahobino is in the video description. It’s pretty crazy to think that right now, I’m right back where I started the game in terms of level difference. I’ve come a long way since I fought Hydra with just a four-level disadvantage at the beginning of the playthrough, and here I am just four levels below Lucifer. But surprisingly, even though this four-level deficit is tied for the smallest in the playthrough, this battle is still arguably one of the tougher story bosses in the game. This can largely be attributed to the poor demon selection above level 76, which makes the level gap feel a lot more significant. Additionally, I chose to take on an unnecessary disadvantage by using Alilat’s resistances instead of Zaou-Gongen’s for the Nahobino, giving him resistances to Panic and Charm rather than immunities and significantly increasing the difficulty of the battle. However, I think that this was a better overall choice for showcasing how interesting this battle can be under the correct conditions. The first phase of this battle appears to be very similar to the Law/Chaos version of Lucifer, but there are a few differences that result in a major increase in difficulty. Lucifer is five levels higher and his elemental affinities have all increased from +5 to +8, which is very significant in terms of power. Additionally, Lucifer’s attacking script causes him to favor targeting weaknesses a lot more with his -barion skills, which one-shot nearly every demon when hitting a weakness. While Lucifer has become much stronger, the demon selection has barely improved with respect to the Law/Chaos routes, which makes it a lot more difficult. It’s also worth noting that Tentarafoo becomes a major issue in this battle when the Nahobino does not have Panic immunity, which is the case here but wasn’t in the Law/Chaos battle. Aside from that, Lucifer’s Brimstone/Cocytus Star gimmick is unchanged from the Law/Chaos routes. There’s also a risk that Lucifer might use Dekaja or Dekunda during the double star phase, which can be problematic as well. However, he does have significantly less HP here to partially account for the existence of the additional phases. The second phase is where the battle diverges heavily from the Law/Chaos routes. Lucifer’s resistances change completely, making him weak to Light while his immunities and physical resistance disappear. His skillset also becomes heavily physical-based, with most of his skills derived from Demi-Fiend’s unique skills in Nocturne. He starts out slow in this phase, but gradually gains power and adds different skills to his rotation as he loses HP. In the beginning of the phase he uses Deadly Fury with the occasional Xeros Beat, then he has a scripted Magma Axis followed by Hot Dark Matter when he loses some HP. After a few more turns he uses Contempt of God, giving him four press turns on his next turn, during which he may start using Freikugel. After losing more HP Lucifer has a scripted Wild Dance immediately followed by Holy Crucifixion, then he may use Javelin Rain or Gaea Rage on later turns. When he enters low HP he has a scripted Hot Dark Matter followed by Magma Axis, then he continues to use his stronger skills until his HP is finally depleted for the second phase. The third phase is the toughest portion of the battle to survive, largely because it can be heavily RNG-reliant. Lucifer gives up on subtlety and breaks out his most powerful skills, the party-wide Elementals of God. Unlike other bosses, Lucifer has no qualms about using multiple party-wide attacks in a single turn, which make them quite tough to deal with. He can also use Megidolaon followed by an elemental, which is even tougher to survive. Every few turns during this phase, Lucifer uses Dekaja or Dekunda and then summons a Morning Star, which temporarily gives him weaknesses to the four major elements. If Morning Star is not destroyed during that turn, Lucifer will then use the skill Morning Star and one-shot every target regardless of stats or level. His patterns don’t change again until he reaches low HP, which causes him to use Cold Dark Matter and Evil Gleam, and then sometimes Tentarafoo again on later turns. The approach for the first phase would more or less be the same as the Law/Chaos routes if I were using Zaou-Gongen’s resistances on the Nahobino, but it’s not as simple without Panic immunity. Because of that, I needed to guard with Yamata-no-Orochi every time Lucifer summoned a star so Tentarafoo hitting the Panic weakness wouldn’t screw the team over on the next turn, and the Nahobino sometimes getting panicked significantly cut into the team’s press turns. I also struggled with getting Impaler’s Animus set up for Thalassic Calamity when I needed it, which made it tougher to take out some of the stars than it otherwise would have been. The frequent demon deaths also made it difficult to get opportunities to damage Lucifer, so this phase went on for a decent amount of time. Omagatoki: Free was vital here to save MP for the later phases, since MP recovery is very limited in this battle even with a full stock of Chakra Pots and Somas. In the second phase, it helped to swap in Ongyo-Ki since Lucifer uses a lot of physical skills. I also ate my words from earlier in this playthrough; I had previously stated that spending Glory on improving the Nahobino’s Light affinity would be a complete waste, but it’s actually quite important for this phase since it makes Hamabarion a lot better and also reduces the length of the battle, which is vital since MP restoration is quite limited. Surviving during this phase can be pretty dependent on RNG both due to the possibility of criticals and Lucifer’s skill selection, especially on Contempt of God turns. Lucifer can even use multiple Freikugels in a turn and then finish with Gaea Rage to destroy a team, but he may just use the extra press turns for basic attacks instead. The Hot Dark Matter into Magma Axis turn is also quite RNG-reliant, since two hits will kill pretty much any target aside from the Nahobino and wipe out a team. It’s also really important to wait before finishing off Lucifer in this phase until the team is set up for the next phase, otherwise he’ll destroy the team as soon as he gets a turn. Just before entering the final phase, Amanozako needs to be swapped in since she provides the immunities necessary for the team to survive. Since Lucifer can use two Elementals of God in a row or Megidolaon followed by an elemental, immunities to those four elements are basically required or Lucifer can annihilate the team with consecutive attacks. Yamata-no-Orochi can cover the Fire and Ice immunities, while Amanozako covers the Electric and Force immunities. However, Amanozako has very low bulk, so she needs to guard to survive Inferno of God and Hailstorm of God and sometimes even that isn’t enough. Alternatively, I could have tried using a bulkier demon in place of Amanozako and used Magic Mirrors instead of guarding, although that would have been less interesting and there was the possibility of running out of Magic Mirrors. Megidolaon is also a huge threat, but there’s not much to be done about it aside from just hoping that at least one target dodges and prevents a follow-up attack. When Lucifer uses Dekaja/Dekunda and summons Morning Star, the Nahobino can usually take out most of its HP with Thalassic Calamity while also dealing a solid amount of damage to Lucifer, and the other demons can usually finish it off so the Nahobino has a turn to reapply Luster Candy or Debilitate and Amanozako can guard. A lot of luck is required to survive during this phase with the Dekaja/Dekunda loop, and it gets even worse near the end when Lucifer uses Evil Gleam and starts using Tentarafoo again. With Zaou-Gongen resistances, that would cause no trouble at all, but the Nahobino gets statused a lot even with resistances to both. Fortunately, I was able to get a few Amrita Showers off when it mattered and finished Lucifer off before getting hit by another Megidolaon into an Elemental of God. I almost ran out of usable MP restoration in this battle even though I had a full supply of Chakra Pots and Somas, but I got just enough use out of them to make it through. And with that, I’ve completed every main story boss in the game. Even though this version of Lucifer isn’t a challenge in normal playthroughs, he’s great here and is a fitting end to the game. I’d also like to add that this is one of the best battles aesthetically, especially with the Demi-Fiend’s skillset and Morning Star. In fact, one of my main motivations for giving the Nahobino Alilat’s resistances instead of Zaou-Gongen’s was to showcase Holy Crucifixion, which would otherwise never be used if Wild Dance was nullified. I think that has one of the coolest animations and audio in the game despite the occasionally wonky camera angle, even if the skill itself doesn’t actually do that much.
Shield of God is whack. I don't think it's a problem with protecting from most stuff in the game, but when it reduces the damage of Heliopolis Dawn (without Shroud) and Morning Star, which are supposed to be instant kills, that's too much. Alternatively, those two could be powered up to Gaea Rage-level so the damage reduction wouldn't matter.
@@Bucketgetter I had 0 idea you were supposed to use shroud since I just survived with life surge + kannabi veil, the main thing I used sheild of god for was surviving impalers animus turns on shiva, since you have to take out the summons every other turn or they'll use buffs instead of stuff that can be blocked to stop shiva from getting a second turn.
Thank you for the strategy explaination. Even though there's not many demons left late game to recruit and utilize, you still manage to do it anyways. I think this is the only boss in the SMT that has three phases, and even then he's somewhat falling off compare to YHVH in Apocalypse which is a flawless boss by itself and requires a lots of planning. What do you think of Lucifer's new design? Do you have any plan for vidya game challenges in the future?
I kind of low-key love that Big Louis finally got his wish to kill God and become the most powerful being in the universe... only for his newfound Knowledge to teach him he was still trapped, undergo a massive existential crisis, and ultimately commit suicide-by-cop
23:10 Luci deals 420 damage and Ongyo-Ki survives with 69 HP, nice This run has been fascinating to watch, congrats on completing the main story! Only two left, good luck!
I wish True Lucifer was level 99 instead of 6 levels below the boss you need to beat to get to him. I don't want to brute force him, but I haven't quite got it in me yet to start a whole Newborn run just to give True Lucifer a fair fight. Like, imagine if Metatron in Nocturne had Lucifer beat by 10 levels. I hate it.
While maybe not the most complex final boss in the series in terms of moveset, the spectacle, music and atmosphere of this Lucifer fight are Top notch in my eyes. I especially love how it works as a contrast to Nocturne's TDE, where instead of becoming a True Demon, Lucifer is testing you to see if you are worthy of ascending to Godhood.
To this I say, people intercepted this as "Neutral", but I think it's a Law-aligned ending compare to Nocturne's TDE which is a Chaos-aligned ending. Goddamn it's so satisfying to say that even though while most of the story fall off in V, everything about Lucifer is perfect and the atmosphere is a reminiscence to Nocturne. First time I and my friend fought him we absolutely fucking enjoyed every moment of it, it's aesthetically pleasing.
@@urameshitrev1851 even though the story did a very poor job at conveying it, it's still seen as a Law-oriented story. The ending speaks for itself: Even though "The world was created by humanity for humanity", V-kun (Now has gained transcendence and become an entity of higher plane to everything else) still rules over it or rather watch it - much akin to how YHVH just observes the world itself, minus the "Let the Law and Chaos fight to balance out the order", and the Mandala cycle will be prevented by one who's foreseeing over the horizon, and thus a world that everything's in V-kun's hands was born - no one is truly free.
Full disclosure: Up until I basically cheesed Shiva with max-level demons for the purposes of battling Lucifer at level 86, I had never once beaten Shiva on any difficulty besides Safety. Even though the game has been out for this long, every time I got to the end of the game I had absolutely no motivation to grind experience further and fuse demons for the battle, so I just started new playthroughs instead of attempting to fight Shiva. Will I be able to defeat Shiva with a respectable challenge ruleset despite never having won the battle before legitimately? Stay tuned to find out.
I actually wouldn't have minded seeing Shiva beaten the way you described, as a "bonus" video of sorts. (I'd also be interested in trying it the same way myself, but I don't have a Switch nor access to a machine that can run Yuzu or whatnot).
I'm more or less expected Shiva to be a bonus. It's been a good run. Jim "Please Unsubscribe" Reaper would be proud now that there's another legend following the path of SMT Low Level and taking it to the extreme with No Fusion restriction.
Very good job man, this battle was amazing to watch. Mad respect for pulling all the way through to the final boss. Exited to see the last 2 remaining bossew be challanged, best of luck!
Because I have too much time on my hands and was bored, I went through every video in the playlist and collected some data, which I wanted to share with everyone. Note that there may be some errors because I am human, if you believe it. Data tracked: - Bucketgetter specials used: Doesn't matter if it ended the fight or not. Only counted if ALL demons were dismissed. - Demons used: Demons in the active battle party. Only counted once per battle (so not including revivals). Whether or not the demon did anything does not matter, as long as it was in battle. - Demon deaths: Every single death. Every death counted, multiple times per battle are counted (rip Throne/Tao). - Naobi moveset: The moves Buckets showed before the battle. Does not matter whether or not they were used. Bucketgetter specials: 11 11 most used demons 1 - Black Frost 25 1 - Kin-Ki 25 3 - Black Ooze 24 (The actual king, he needeth none Endure) 4 - Clotho 23 5 - Hecatoncheiris 21 6 - Setanta 20 7 - Kelpie 17 8 - Muu Shuvuu 16 9 - Oberon 15 9 - Rakshasa 15 9 - Ippon-Datara 15 12 saddest anime deaths: 1 - Clotho 17 2 - Tao 14 (Pre-appearance death while sitting in the stock included) 3 - Jack O' Lantern 7 3 - Oberon 7 3 - Setanta 7 3 - Throne 7 7 - Amanozako 6 7 - Kali 6 9 - Kelpie 4 9 - Orthrus 4 9 - Tsuchigumo 4 9 - Yamata Orochi 4 (First death was Bicorn in the Anahita fight, Tsuchigumo died on the same turn.) 10 most used Nahobino moves: 1 - Restore 51 2 - Matarukaja 49 3 - Thalassic Calamity 45 4 - Debilitate 44 5 - Beast Eye 41 6 - Miracle Water 40 (actual use count is probably in the single digits lol) 7 - Rakunda 39 7 - Marakukaja 39 9 - Boon Boost 37 10- Luster Candy 35 Footnote: A battle is counted every time Buckets shows off his moveset. Fights that were done multiple times or reset during phase shift, like Ishtar or Lahmu, are thus counted multiple times, so long as they are in the playlist. Videos containing multiple battles, like the Abcess&Quest videos, are thus also counted seperately. Footnote DLC: If I'm allowed to add a link to this comment, I will make a pastebin so the full data can be seen. Data will be updated when a new fight is uploaded. Even though there is still Shiva and (technically) Demi-Fiend left, which I am very excited for, I just wanted to thank you for the super detailed descriptions and occasional meme video. Hope this data is interesting to you, king.
@@aly3392 It is quite funny to see how a lot of appearances don't actually reflect the demon's usefulness in terms of damage. Macabre, Rakshasa and Hecaton all saw greatly increased usage due to Rasetsu Feast, same for Oberon and Setanta for Fairy Banquet. On the other side of the spectrum, the following demons were only used once: Andras, Baphomet, Basilisk, Demeter, Kaiwan, Kumbhanda, Lilim, Mada, Mokoi, Mothman, Narcissus, Ongyo-Ki and Queen Medb.
This...seems like quite the undertaking, considering that I recently added up the lengths of all my SMT V videos and it came out to be about 25 hours. You'll notice that pretty much all of the most-used demons just have one thing they did well and a few have two, but that's still enough to merit a good deal of use in a game where demon longevity is at an all-time low due to level effects. It's also kind of funny that I can look down the death list and I already know where those deaths added up. Clotho and Tao died a lot against Zeus but would still be top 2 even without that battle, Jack-O'-Lantern is on the list because of optimal strategies against Surt, and Amanozako and Kali died against Zeus and Lucifer. And my lord, I really kept Miracle Water for that long? I think I only used it two, maybe three times that entire span of the game.
@@Bucketgetter If my memory serves me right, you used Miracle Water twice. Once vs Ippon-Datara and once vs Artemis. I don't exactly remember if you kept it after Artemis but it was gone in the next few battles. Regarding demon strengths, the ones I think were the brightest here were Hecatoncheires and Clotho, with their rampage and healing respectively. Black Ooze was used the most 'authentically', but even then it was never a damage menace, just there to spam toxic spray and stare folks into cycle 2 with the funny phys resist.
@@muddak3292 While you are right, he did use Miracle Water twice, He actually didn't use against Nuwa, but Ippon-Datara. He also threw out Aramasa against Leanan Sidhe, probably for the shits and giggles
In my humble opinion, on a normal playthrough without restrictions, the only thing that made this battle feel satisfying was the music in Phase 2 for me. I went with Law for my first playthrough and the Lucifer battle was quite disappointing. At least he puts up a little more challenge in Neutral 2.0. Then again, I crushed him with the level difference due to Shiva battle.
I was really looking foward to watching a version of this fight that wasn't just people brute forcing it and for that, I thank you. This fight is a really cool capoff for SMT V, everything from the music, to the aesthetics, to the callbacks and paralels to previous games make this one the more standout moments of the entire game. I just sucks that the way most people approach sucks the entire challenge out of it. The way the requirements to unlock this fight work make me think that this fight was really meant to be this discovered in new game+(since it still counts if you completed the steps on prior playthroughs).Unfortunately, almost everyone who ever learns of this endings existence(myself included) tries to go for it in their first run wich causes a lot of akwardness.
Really wish more of these games would make the final boss scale with your level, like based on your level they get stronger and have more hp. Maybe if they limited Demi-Fiend to NG+ I woulda had more incentive to go through the end game not fully leveled, but then again making you play the game twice for a paid DLC would be kinda wack too.
Gonna be honest I'm still not done with my first playthrough, and I feel like I've screwed up somewhere in my dialogue choices, but I'm hip deep into this game at lvl 60, I'm not starting a new game without NG+ bonuses.
God I wish they adjusted this battle more to be in-line with the level cap. I've never seen Holy Crucifixion before until I saw your video: damn thats cool! Maybe they'll adjust him in SMTVengeance to make him harder and more worth fighting at higher levels?
I certainly wasn't prepared for this. I think I hyped for you to do this fight more than Shiva due to how good of a final boss fight he is compare to the "Normal" routes difference in term of difficulty. The sudden environment shift and music shift makes this a god-tier fight compare to Shiva and Lucifer originally in Nocturne. I just love this fight so much.
It's interesting that this is how the final boss in the true demon ending is in Nocturne, even if you spend a lot of time assembling a good team and level way past level 99. Especially on hard difficultly. In SMT V, it is way too easy to come into Shiva and get demolished at level 70 to 75, then decide to level up a bit to where Shiva isn't that bad. But, then from that point on in the game all the bosses are way too easy. It's almost like Atlus should patch the game to fix this issue. The only way to actually have a challenge after Shiva seems to be if you beat him somewhere between level 75 and 80. Leveling past that takes any challenge out of the game for what remains. Unless of course, if you fight the demi fiend.
I figure this is a decent time to ask this. What are your overall thoughts on SMT V and its changes to the battle system (e.g Press Turn Changes, Magatsuhi, Level scaling) along with how you felt about the bosses (loaded question I know)
Every time I think about answering this kind of stuff I always feel like there's a lot more I should mention or can't think of in the moment, but right now I'll just try to go over a few main points, even though I've probably mentioned some of this stuff before. Press turn: The big change was stacking half turns with passing and switching, and I'm glad they did that. The previous system was honestly unintuitive and kind of just existed as the law of the land without any real reasoning behind it. It really got kind of stupid with multiple switches in a turn like I was doing against Sukuna-Hikona and Vishnu-Flynn in Apocalypse. It's also nice that swapping was altered so it passed the turn instead of rearranging the turn order without advancing, since that was pretty confusing and I still don't know how that mechanic worked. Being able to set the party order also works into this as well; the old system sucked since it was based on Agility and there really wasn't anything you could do to change that, but in SMT V there are more viable approaches since you can mess around with the team order. Magatsuhi skills: I certainly don't agree with the idea that Omagatoki: Critical is the end-all be-all choice in this game, but I think everyone can agree that some of the skills could use some rebalancing. I get why they linked the skills to demon races but the problem is that messes with team builds too much. I think it would have been cool if they were equippable and you could have access to several at a time, which is kind of the case here but realistically only one or maybe two will be usable at a time in these battles. I did like the gauge-filling mechanics, since there are a some battles in which I had to watch the gauge and figure out how to fill it when I needed by guarding with some demons or whatever. A skill that specifically fills the gauge would have been interesting. Level scaling: If anyone has the right to complain about this, it's me, and I think that a lot of this stuff is heavily overblown. Some people seem to think that not being able to battle Hydra with a level 5 team somehow equates to the entire system being nonfunctional when they can simply...not fight Hydra at level 5, and the game still works. On the other hand there's also overleveling effects, but during my first few playthroughs when I wasn't intentionally holding back my level, I thought the core of the game was still fine. Problems would mostly be apparent when doing sidequests later than intended, but in older games you'd probably wipe the floor with most of them anyway when doing them later in the game. There's also the Secret Neutral problem with Shiva, which as I've mentioned other times is more of a problem with people thinking that they have to do this route first. Anyway, the point of the level scaling was to provide incentive to use different demons throughout the game instead of just using a ton of essences on a few demons and doing the exact same thing for the whole game. The problem is there are way too many people who seem intent on playing the game the most boring way, by feeding Yoshitsune and Idun a ton of Grimoires and boosters, then spamming Hassou Tobi with Phys Pleroma/Critical Zealot and Golden Apple in literally every single boss battle. It's just like a lot of other games where people choose the cheesiest options and then complain about how there's no challenge at all when they rely on one thing for the entire game. So in the end they all ignore what the system existed for to begin with and focus only on the negative effects of scaling. Bosses: There's way too much to cover here but there's a lot of cool stuff they did with bosses in this game that they haven't done much of in previous games, like increased focus on summoned allies. Most side quest bosses before Taito still have uninspired skillsets but IV and Apocalypse were similar in that respect. Scripted Magatsuhi gathers are fine with longer battles like I've been doing, but get increasingly problematic with shorter battles. Dampeners could be reworked to provide temporary resistance instead of immunity. There's a lot more to be said but I'll leave it at that since it's not coming to mind at the moment.
@@Bucketgetter I think level scaling is not much of an issue for the first 3 fourths of the game, in fact, i found that that actually ended up encouraging me to tackle the side content as soon as posible. Is when you get to Taito, where the more open-ended approach kinda backfires since it leads to you running to a lot of walls so you either trial and error until you find something that is doable at your level or you grind a bunch. I walked from SMT V with the impression that i should probably do another playthrough eventually and this run really solidified that feeling. I will likely give it another shot once i buy the DLC.
@@superiorgamer3950 Level scaling itself's not very bad because even at a 10 level difference it's still not much of a problem. That speaks for mid to late game. Early game suffers a lots because of this, as Low Level just further push it into the extreme with Hydra and Nuwa 1 being two of the, if not the worst run ender contender for early game since you'll be wasting a lots of valuable resources on them and one may give up because of how tedious it is.
This was sick. Love your videos I did want to ask you one thing about your challenge runs. Firstly, how do you get the items you need for each fight? Like wouldn't you end up using up things like purge charms and beads?
I'm famously stingy with most consumables that are either unfarmable or difficult to farm, so most of the time I just try to get by with items that are purchasable like Ambrosias, elemental Gems, and Chakra Drops (by trading with Jack-O'-Lantern after a quest). More valuable stuff like Chakra Pots, Beads, Amrita Showers, and Purge/Dispel Charms are kind of farmable, but it takes a lot of time to do so so I avoid those when I can. Amrita Showers and Purge/Dispel Charms can be found in the Taito area by checking a lot of random areas with a navigator, while Chakra Pots and Beads can only be farmed by talking to specific demons that have them as drop items with another of the same demon in the party, which causes the battle to end with a small chance that the demon will present their drop item as a gift. That's really not fun to do since the chance of receiving the drop item as a gift is like 5% and it can take 20-30 minutes or more just to get a single item.
Yeah I figured you had a workaround but I couldn't guess what it was since farming enemy drops would break the challenge rules. And beating a boss and resetting to replenish your supply wouldn't work either since you'd still have to beat the boss with the same rules in place. Like breaking the rules for one boss would have a knock on effect and ruin the run
Just one more question: Did you fought Shiva prior to alignment lock (walking through the door after Metatron) in order to unlock the secret ending? Or you can still obtain it, as long as you complete the Shiva's quest before starting with Abdiel?
This is a small thing (and ultimately irrelevant to the video itself), but thank you for calling it "Secret Neutral Route" and not "True Neutral Route". Maybe that's just me being a stubborn asshole, but I really don't like when people use "true/non-true" dichotomy when referring to the MegaTen games outside of Persona, because it goes against one of the main ideas behind them (that being the exploration of your personal beliefs). Instead they just go for the "true" ending and call it a day, which just makes me sad.
I'm glad that someone else brought it up because I didn't want to add more than two comments on my own video. I've mentioned this before, but I don't call it the "true" ending because I think that's detrimental to the game itself. First of all, calling it a "true" ending doesn't even make sense to me since all of the other endings tell a complete story and it's not like they're missing a piece relative to this one. Then you've also got this notion within the community that they "have to" do the "true ending", which of course causes a ton of players to complain about how the entirety of the Empyrean is a piece of cake since they took out Shiva before entering. There's a literal barrier preventing you from meeting Shiva until the Nahobino is Empyrean-level but everyone ignores that and grinds a bunch since they've been told that they have to do Shiva first for the "true ending". I'm not exaggerating when I say that I think this is an issue that the community brought upon itself. It's not like the route structuring is perfect here but the problem has been greatly exasperated by the community simply mislabeling the route when that title doesn't even accurately describe the content. I think it's bizarre that so many SMT players treat the White ending in SMT IV as a full ending even though it cuts out a large part of the endgame (not that it isn't a complete ending), but will also act like the primary Neutral ending is incomplete even though it's nearly identical in scope to the Law and Chaos endings. Yes, this ending does go further but it's also in a slightly different direction, and if it didn't exist at all then the other Neutral ending would still be a fitting end to the game. There's also probably something to be said here about Nocturne and the "True Demon Ending," which I've never really thought about. I think everyone kind of goes that route since there's a lot more to experience there rather than because of the idea that it's a "true ending", which isn't quite the same as the case here.
@@Bucketgetter If I recall correctly, the requirements for the secret ending is coded to be the acquisition of certain unlocked fusion recipes(Specifically Amanozako, Fionn, Khonsu-Ra, and Shiva), not actually the sidequest clears. This means that on a NG+ using the NEWBORN (NOT REBORN) option, you carry over fusion unlocks, but not levels, ignore the otherwise requisite sidequests and could fight Secret Neutral Lucifer at an even lower level. That is, again, if I'm remembering the actual conditions correctly.
That makes a lot more sense. I've always thought that this battle was more suited for a second playthrough, and if that's true then it justifies the setup of this route a lot more. I wish they had just blocked the route off entirely until NG+ since making it available on a first playthrough has done nothing but make the community complain incessantly. I would like to see that claim sourced though, since I've never actually seen anything that mentions it's not actually linked to quest completion.
I agree, even now months later I still can't say for sure which of the endings was the one I preferred, whereas with a game like SMT4, it felt pretty clear what I agreed with the most. I suppose others prefer a story's message or ending to be direct and satisfying, but personally I also enjoy stuff like SMT5 where there they don't leave you with one clear "true" message, because I find the process of thinking about the endings and drawing meaning from them to be just as compelling.
![SMT V - Shiva (Low Level [80], Hard, No Accursed Poison/DLC/Stat Boosters/NG+)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/rcsjhpSgiRs/mqdefault.jpg)
![SMT V - Shiva (Low Level [80], Hard, No Accursed Poison/DLC/Stat Boosters/NG+)](/img/tr.png)
![Shin Megami Tensei 5 Vengeance - Boss Satan [HARD]](/img/1.gif)
Another final boss that simply cannot be adequately described within the 5000-character description limit. A summary of how I made it here with a level 86 Nahobino is in the video description.
It’s pretty crazy to think that right now, I’m right back where I started the game in terms of level difference. I’ve come a long way since I fought Hydra with just a four-level disadvantage at the beginning of the playthrough, and here I am just four levels below Lucifer. But surprisingly, even though this four-level deficit is tied for the smallest in the playthrough, this battle is still arguably one of the tougher story bosses in the game. This can largely be attributed to the poor demon selection above level 76, which makes the level gap feel a lot more significant. Additionally, I chose to take on an unnecessary disadvantage by using Alilat’s resistances instead of Zaou-Gongen’s for the Nahobino, giving him resistances to Panic and Charm rather than immunities and significantly increasing the difficulty of the battle. However, I think that this was a better overall choice for showcasing how interesting this battle can be under the correct conditions.
The first phase of this battle appears to be very similar to the Law/Chaos version of Lucifer, but there are a few differences that result in a major increase in difficulty. Lucifer is five levels higher and his elemental affinities have all increased from +5 to +8, which is very significant in terms of power. Additionally, Lucifer’s attacking script causes him to favor targeting weaknesses a lot more with his -barion skills, which one-shot nearly every demon when hitting a weakness. While Lucifer has become much stronger, the demon selection has barely improved with respect to the Law/Chaos routes, which makes it a lot more difficult. It’s also worth noting that Tentarafoo becomes a major issue in this battle when the Nahobino does not have Panic immunity, which is the case here but wasn’t in the Law/Chaos battle. Aside from that, Lucifer’s Brimstone/Cocytus Star gimmick is unchanged from the Law/Chaos routes. There’s also a risk that Lucifer might use Dekaja or Dekunda during the double star phase, which can be problematic as well. However, he does have significantly less HP here to partially account for the existence of the additional phases.
The second phase is where the battle diverges heavily from the Law/Chaos routes. Lucifer’s resistances change completely, making him weak to Light while his immunities and physical resistance disappear. His skillset also becomes heavily physical-based, with most of his skills derived from Demi-Fiend’s unique skills in Nocturne. He starts out slow in this phase, but gradually gains power and adds different skills to his rotation as he loses HP. In the beginning of the phase he uses Deadly Fury with the occasional Xeros Beat, then he has a scripted Magma Axis followed by Hot Dark Matter when he loses some HP. After a few more turns he uses Contempt of God, giving him four press turns on his next turn, during which he may start using Freikugel. After losing more HP Lucifer has a scripted Wild Dance immediately followed by Holy Crucifixion, then he may use Javelin Rain or Gaea Rage on later turns. When he enters low HP he has a scripted Hot Dark Matter followed by Magma Axis, then he continues to use his stronger skills until his HP is finally depleted for the second phase.
The third phase is the toughest portion of the battle to survive, largely because it can be heavily RNG-reliant. Lucifer gives up on subtlety and breaks out his most powerful skills, the party-wide Elementals of God. Unlike other bosses, Lucifer has no qualms about using multiple party-wide attacks in a single turn, which make them quite tough to deal with. He can also use Megidolaon followed by an elemental, which is even tougher to survive. Every few turns during this phase, Lucifer uses Dekaja or Dekunda and then summons a Morning Star, which temporarily gives him weaknesses to the four major elements. If Morning Star is not destroyed during that turn, Lucifer will then use the skill Morning Star and one-shot every target regardless of stats or level. His patterns don’t change again until he reaches low HP, which causes him to use Cold Dark Matter and Evil Gleam, and then sometimes Tentarafoo again on later turns.
The approach for the first phase would more or less be the same as the Law/Chaos routes if I were using Zaou-Gongen’s resistances on the Nahobino, but it’s not as simple without Panic immunity. Because of that, I needed to guard with Yamata-no-Orochi every time Lucifer summoned a star so Tentarafoo hitting the Panic weakness wouldn’t screw the team over on the next turn, and the Nahobino sometimes getting panicked significantly cut into the team’s press turns. I also struggled with getting Impaler’s Animus set up for Thalassic Calamity when I needed it, which made it tougher to take out some of the stars than it otherwise would have been. The frequent demon deaths also made it difficult to get opportunities to damage Lucifer, so this phase went on for a decent amount of time. Omagatoki: Free was vital here to save MP for the later phases, since MP recovery is very limited in this battle even with a full stock of Chakra Pots and Somas.
In the second phase, it helped to swap in Ongyo-Ki since Lucifer uses a lot of physical skills.
I also ate my words from earlier in this playthrough; I had previously stated that spending Glory on improving the Nahobino’s Light affinity would be a complete waste, but it’s actually quite important for this phase since it makes Hamabarion a lot better and also reduces the length of the battle, which is vital since MP restoration is quite limited. Surviving during this phase can be pretty dependent on RNG both due to the possibility of criticals and Lucifer’s skill selection, especially on Contempt of God turns. Lucifer can even use multiple Freikugels in a turn and then finish with Gaea Rage to destroy a team, but he may just use the extra press turns for basic attacks instead. The Hot Dark Matter into Magma Axis turn is also quite RNG-reliant, since two hits will kill pretty much any target aside from the Nahobino and wipe out a team. It’s also really important to wait before finishing off Lucifer in this phase until the team is set up for the next phase, otherwise he’ll destroy the team as soon as he gets a turn.
Just before entering the final phase, Amanozako needs to be swapped in since she provides the immunities necessary for the team to survive. Since Lucifer can use two Elementals of God in a row or Megidolaon followed by an elemental, immunities to those four elements are basically required or Lucifer can annihilate the team with consecutive attacks. Yamata-no-Orochi can cover the Fire and Ice immunities, while Amanozako covers the Electric and Force immunities. However, Amanozako has very low bulk, so she needs to guard to survive Inferno of God and Hailstorm of God and sometimes even that isn’t enough. Alternatively, I could have tried using a bulkier demon in place of Amanozako and used Magic Mirrors instead of guarding, although that would have been less interesting and there was the possibility of running out of Magic Mirrors. Megidolaon is also a huge threat, but there’s not much to be done about it aside from just hoping that at least one target dodges and prevents a follow-up attack. When Lucifer uses Dekaja/Dekunda and summons Morning Star, the Nahobino can usually take out most of its HP with Thalassic Calamity while also dealing a solid amount of damage to Lucifer, and the other demons can usually finish it off so the Nahobino has a turn to reapply Luster Candy or Debilitate and Amanozako can guard. A lot of luck is required to survive during this phase with the Dekaja/Dekunda loop, and it gets even worse near the end when Lucifer uses Evil Gleam and starts using Tentarafoo again. With Zaou-Gongen resistances, that would cause no trouble at all, but the Nahobino gets statused a lot even with resistances to both. Fortunately, I was able to get a few Amrita Showers off when it mattered and finished Lucifer off before getting hit by another Megidolaon into an Elemental of God. I almost ran out of usable MP restoration in this battle even though I had a full supply of Chakra Pots and Somas, but I got just enough use out of them to make it through.
And with that, I’ve completed every main story boss in the game. Even though this version of Lucifer isn’t a challenge in normal playthroughs, he’s great here and is a fitting end to the game. I’d also like to add that this is one of the best battles aesthetically, especially with the Demi-Fiend’s skillset and Morning Star. In fact, one of my main motivations for giving the Nahobino Alilat’s resistances instead of Zaou-Gongen’s was to showcase Holy Crucifixion, which would otherwise never be used if Wild Dance was nullified. I think that has one of the coolest animations and audio in the game despite the occasionally wonky camera angle, even if the skill itself doesn’t actually do that much.
At high levels you can survive morning star with sheild of god
Shield of God is whack. I don't think it's a problem with protecting from most stuff in the game, but when it reduces the damage of Heliopolis Dawn (without Shroud) and Morning Star, which are supposed to be instant kills, that's too much. Alternatively, those two could be powered up to Gaea Rage-level so the damage reduction wouldn't matter.
@@Bucketgetter I had 0 idea you were supposed to use shroud since I just survived with life surge + kannabi veil, the main thing I used sheild of god for was surviving impalers animus turns on shiva, since you have to take out the summons every other turn or they'll use buffs instead of stuff that can be blocked to stop shiva from getting a second turn.
Thank you for the strategy explaination. Even though there's not many demons left late game to recruit and utilize, you still manage to do it anyways. I think this is the only boss in the SMT that has three phases, and even then he's somewhat falling off compare to YHVH in Apocalypse which is a flawless boss by itself and requires a lots of planning.
What do you think of Lucifer's new design? Do you have any plan for vidya game challenges in the future?
I will elaborate on future plans at a later time
I kind of low-key love that Big Louis finally got his wish to kill God and become the most powerful being in the universe... only for his newfound Knowledge to teach him he was still trapped, undergo a massive existential crisis, and ultimately commit suicide-by-cop
I do think he at least was proud of the Nahobino in the end, since he called him his ‘children’.
23:10 Luci deals 420 damage and Ongyo-Ki survives with 69 HP, nice
This run has been fascinating to watch, congrats on completing the main story! Only two left, good luck!
I wish more people described this as "secret neutral route" instead of "true route".
I prefer « shittiest ending »
I wish True Lucifer was level 99 instead of 6 levels below the boss you need to beat to get to him.
I don't want to brute force him, but I haven't quite got it in me yet to start a whole Newborn run just to give True Lucifer a fair fight.
Like, imagine if Metatron in Nocturne had Lucifer beat by 10 levels. I hate it.
Well, _Vengeance_ has granted exactly that wish.
And the stars are _a lot_ beefier...
While maybe not the most complex final boss in the series in terms of moveset, the spectacle, music and atmosphere of this Lucifer fight are Top notch in my eyes.
I especially love how it works as a contrast to Nocturne's TDE, where instead of becoming a True Demon, Lucifer is testing you to see if you are worthy of ascending to Godhood.
To this I say, people intercepted this as "Neutral", but I think it's a Law-aligned ending compare to Nocturne's TDE which is a Chaos-aligned ending.
Goddamn it's so satisfying to say that even though while most of the story fall off in V, everything about Lucifer is perfect and the atmosphere is a reminiscence to Nocturne. First time I and my friend fought him we absolutely fucking enjoyed every moment of it, it's aesthetically pleasing.
@@YurificationTrademark Yeah overall V felt heavily Law themed, I mean in 3 out of the 4 endings you basically replace God by the end of it lol
@@urameshitrev1851 even though the story did a very poor job at conveying it, it's still seen as a Law-oriented story. The ending speaks for itself: Even though "The world was created by humanity for humanity", V-kun (Now has gained transcendence and become an entity of higher plane to everything else) still rules over it or rather watch it - much akin to how YHVH just observes the world itself, minus the "Let the Law and Chaos fight to balance out the order", and the Mandala cycle will be prevented by one who's foreseeing over the horizon, and thus a world that everything's in V-kun's hands was born - no one is truly free.
Full disclosure: Up until I basically cheesed Shiva with max-level demons for the purposes of battling Lucifer at level 86, I had never once beaten Shiva on any difficulty besides Safety. Even though the game has been out for this long, every time I got to the end of the game I had absolutely no motivation to grind experience further and fuse demons for the battle, so I just started new playthroughs instead of attempting to fight Shiva. Will I be able to defeat Shiva with a respectable challenge ruleset despite never having won the battle before legitimately? Stay tuned to find out.
I actually wouldn't have minded seeing Shiva beaten the way you described, as a "bonus" video of sorts.
(I'd also be interested in trying it the same way myself, but I don't have a Switch nor access to a machine that can run Yuzu or whatnot).
I did shiva at like level 88 on hard without grinding, but I also had done every sidequest beforehand
Shiva was the only thing worth doing left on my run lol
Had zero motivation to do vids for the other optional bosses
I'm more or less expected Shiva to be a bonus. It's been a good run. Jim "Please Unsubscribe" Reaper would be proud now that there's another legend following the path of SMT Low Level and taking it to the extreme with No Fusion restriction.
@@Mrspeedwarrior2 mirai-chan!!! Hiiii
Very good job man, this battle was amazing to watch.
Mad respect for pulling all the way through to the final boss.
Exited to see the last 2 remaining bossew be challanged, best of luck!
Because I have too much time on my hands and was bored, I went through every video in the playlist and collected some data, which I wanted to share with everyone. Note that there may be some errors because I am human, if you believe it.
Data tracked:
- Bucketgetter specials used: Doesn't matter if it ended the fight or not. Only counted if ALL demons were dismissed.
- Demons used: Demons in the active battle party. Only counted once per battle (so not including revivals). Whether or not the demon did anything does not matter, as long as it was in battle.
- Demon deaths: Every single death. Every death counted, multiple times per battle are counted (rip Throne/Tao).
- Naobi moveset: The moves Buckets showed before the battle. Does not matter whether or not they were used.
Bucketgetter specials: 11
11 most used demons
1 - Black Frost 25
1 - Kin-Ki 25
3 - Black Ooze 24 (The actual king, he needeth none Endure)
4 - Clotho 23
5 - Hecatoncheiris 21
6 - Setanta 20
7 - Kelpie 17
8 - Muu Shuvuu 16
9 - Oberon 15
9 - Rakshasa 15
9 - Ippon-Datara 15
12 saddest anime deaths:
1 - Clotho 17
2 - Tao 14 (Pre-appearance death while sitting in the stock included)
3 - Jack O' Lantern 7
3 - Oberon 7
3 - Setanta 7
3 - Throne 7
7 - Amanozako 6
7 - Kali 6
9 - Kelpie 4
9 - Orthrus 4
9 - Tsuchigumo 4
9 - Yamata Orochi 4
(First death was Bicorn in the Anahita fight, Tsuchigumo died on the same turn.)
10 most used Nahobino moves:
1 - Restore 51
2 - Matarukaja 49
3 - Thalassic Calamity 45
4 - Debilitate 44
5 - Beast Eye 41
6 - Miracle Water 40 (actual use count is probably in the single digits lol)
7 - Rakunda 39
7 - Marakukaja 39
9 - Boon Boost 37
10- Luster Candy 35
Footnote: A battle is counted every time Buckets shows off his moveset. Fights that were done multiple times or reset during phase shift, like Ishtar or Lahmu, are thus counted multiple times, so long as they are in the playlist. Videos containing multiple battles, like the Abcess&Quest videos, are thus also counted seperately.
Footnote DLC: If I'm allowed to add a link to this comment, I will make a pastebin so the full data can be seen. Data will be updated when a new fight is uploaded.
Even though there is still Shiva and (technically) Demi-Fiend left, which I am very excited for, I just wanted to thank you for the super detailed descriptions and occasional meme video. Hope this data is interesting to you, king.
Booze, Hechaton, Clotho and Setanta being absolute beasts
@@aly3392 It is quite funny to see how a lot of appearances don't actually reflect the demon's usefulness in terms of damage. Macabre, Rakshasa and Hecaton all saw greatly increased usage due to Rasetsu Feast, same for Oberon and Setanta for Fairy Banquet. On the other side of the spectrum, the following demons were only used once: Andras, Baphomet, Basilisk, Demeter, Kaiwan, Kumbhanda, Lilim, Mada, Mokoi, Mothman, Narcissus, Ongyo-Ki and Queen Medb.
This...seems like quite the undertaking, considering that I recently added up the lengths of all my SMT V videos and it came out to be about 25 hours.
You'll notice that pretty much all of the most-used demons just have one thing they did well and a few have two, but that's still enough to merit a good deal of use in a game where demon longevity is at an all-time low due to level effects.
It's also kind of funny that I can look down the death list and I already know where those deaths added up. Clotho and Tao died a lot against Zeus but would still be top 2 even without that battle, Jack-O'-Lantern is on the list because of optimal strategies against Surt, and Amanozako and Kali died against Zeus and Lucifer.
And my lord, I really kept Miracle Water for that long? I think I only used it two, maybe three times that entire span of the game.
@@Bucketgetter If my memory serves me right, you used Miracle Water twice. Once vs Ippon-Datara and once vs Artemis. I don't exactly remember if you kept it after Artemis but it was gone in the next few battles.
Regarding demon strengths, the ones I think were the brightest here were Hecatoncheires and Clotho, with their rampage and healing respectively. Black Ooze was used the most 'authentically', but even then it was never a damage menace, just there to spam toxic spray and stare folks into cycle 2 with the funny phys resist.
@@muddak3292 While you are right, he did use Miracle Water twice, He actually didn't use against Nuwa, but Ippon-Datara. He also threw out Aramasa against Leanan Sidhe, probably for the shits and giggles
In my humble opinion, on a normal playthrough without restrictions, the only thing that made this battle feel satisfying was the music in Phase 2 for me.
I went with Law for my first playthrough and the Lucifer battle was quite disappointing. At least he puts up a little more challenge in Neutral 2.0. Then again, I crushed him with the level difference due to Shiva battle.
I was really looking foward to watching a version of this fight that wasn't just people brute forcing it and for that, I thank you. This fight is a really cool capoff for SMT V, everything from the music, to the aesthetics, to the callbacks and paralels to previous games make this one the more standout moments of the entire game. I just sucks that the way most people approach sucks the entire challenge out of it.
The way the requirements to unlock this fight work make me think that this fight was really meant to be this discovered in new game+(since it still counts if you completed the steps on prior playthroughs).Unfortunately, almost everyone who ever learns of this endings existence(myself included) tries to go for it in their first run wich causes a lot of akwardness.
Really wish more of these games would make the final boss scale with your level, like based on your level they get stronger and have more hp.
Maybe if they limited Demi-Fiend to NG+ I woulda had more incentive to go through the end game not fully leveled, but then again making you play the game twice for a paid DLC would be kinda wack too.
Gonna be honest I'm still not done with my first playthrough, and I feel like I've screwed up somewhere in my dialogue choices, but I'm hip deep into this game at lvl 60, I'm not starting a new game without NG+ bonuses.
God I wish they adjusted this battle more to be in-line with the level cap. I've never seen Holy Crucifixion before until I saw your video: damn thats cool!
Maybe they'll adjust him in SMTVengeance to make him harder and more worth fighting at higher levels?
luci the absolute glowing unit
I certainly wasn't prepared for this. I think I hyped for you to do this fight more than Shiva due to how good of a final boss fight he is compare to the "Normal" routes difference in term of difficulty. The sudden environment shift and music shift makes this a god-tier fight compare to Shiva and Lucifer originally in Nocturne. I just love this fight so much.
congratulations for beating the game
Imagine living in a world where God’s name is “Buckets”
I hope Vengeance buffs this fight similar to how Lucifer was buffed in Nocturne
yep. now his balls are incredibly bulky
It's interesting that this is how the final boss in the true demon ending is in Nocturne, even if you spend a lot of time assembling a good team and level way past level 99. Especially on hard difficultly. In SMT V, it is way too easy to come into Shiva and get demolished at level 70 to 75, then decide to level up a bit to where Shiva isn't that bad. But, then from that point on in the game all the bosses are way too easy. It's almost like Atlus should patch the game to fix this issue. The only way to actually have a challenge after Shiva seems to be if you beat him somewhere between level 75 and 80. Leveling past that takes any challenge out of the game for what remains. Unless of course, if you fight the demi fiend.
I figure this is a decent time to ask this. What are your overall thoughts on SMT V and its changes to the battle system (e.g Press Turn Changes, Magatsuhi, Level scaling) along with how you felt about the bosses (loaded question I know)
Every time I think about answering this kind of stuff I always feel like there's a lot more I should mention or can't think of in the moment, but right now I'll just try to go over a few main points, even though I've probably mentioned some of this stuff before.
Press turn: The big change was stacking half turns with passing and switching, and I'm glad they did that. The previous system was honestly unintuitive and kind of just existed as the law of the land without any real reasoning behind it. It really got kind of stupid with multiple switches in a turn like I was doing against Sukuna-Hikona and Vishnu-Flynn in Apocalypse. It's also nice that swapping was altered so it passed the turn instead of rearranging the turn order without advancing, since that was pretty confusing and I still don't know how that mechanic worked. Being able to set the party order also works into this as well; the old system sucked since it was based on Agility and there really wasn't anything you could do to change that, but in SMT V there are more viable approaches since you can mess around with the team order.
Magatsuhi skills: I certainly don't agree with the idea that Omagatoki: Critical is the end-all be-all choice in this game, but I think everyone can agree that some of the skills could use some rebalancing. I get why they linked the skills to demon races but the problem is that messes with team builds too much. I think it would have been cool if they were equippable and you could have access to several at a time, which is kind of the case here but realistically only one or maybe two will be usable at a time in these battles. I did like the gauge-filling mechanics, since there are a some battles in which I had to watch the gauge and figure out how to fill it when I needed by guarding with some demons or whatever. A skill that specifically fills the gauge would have been interesting.
Level scaling: If anyone has the right to complain about this, it's me, and I think that a lot of this stuff is heavily overblown. Some people seem to think that not being able to battle Hydra with a level 5 team somehow equates to the entire system being nonfunctional when they can simply...not fight Hydra at level 5, and the game still works. On the other hand there's also overleveling effects, but during my first few playthroughs when I wasn't intentionally holding back my level, I thought the core of the game was still fine. Problems would mostly be apparent when doing sidequests later than intended, but in older games you'd probably wipe the floor with most of them anyway when doing them later in the game. There's also the Secret Neutral problem with Shiva, which as I've mentioned other times is more of a problem with people thinking that they have to do this route first.
Anyway, the point of the level scaling was to provide incentive to use different demons throughout the game instead of just using a ton of essences on a few demons and doing the exact same thing for the whole game. The problem is there are way too many people who seem intent on playing the game the most boring way, by feeding Yoshitsune and Idun a ton of Grimoires and boosters, then spamming Hassou Tobi with Phys Pleroma/Critical Zealot and Golden Apple in literally every single boss battle. It's just like a lot of other games where people choose the cheesiest options and then complain about how there's no challenge at all when they rely on one thing for the entire game. So in the end they all ignore what the system existed for to begin with and focus only on the negative effects of scaling.
Bosses: There's way too much to cover here but there's a lot of cool stuff they did with bosses in this game that they haven't done much of in previous games, like increased focus on summoned allies. Most side quest bosses before Taito still have uninspired skillsets but IV and Apocalypse were similar in that respect. Scripted Magatsuhi gathers are fine with longer battles like I've been doing, but get increasingly problematic with shorter battles. Dampeners could be reworked to provide temporary resistance instead of immunity. There's a lot more to be said but I'll leave it at that since it's not coming to mind at the moment.
@@Bucketgetter I think level scaling is not much of an issue for the first 3 fourths of the game, in fact, i found that that actually ended up encouraging me to tackle the side content as soon as posible. Is when you get to Taito, where the more open-ended approach kinda backfires since it leads to you running to a lot of walls so you either trial and error until you find something that is doable at your level or you grind a bunch.
I walked from SMT V with the impression that i should probably do another playthrough eventually and this run really solidified that feeling. I will likely give it another shot once i buy the DLC.
@@superiorgamer3950 Level scaling itself's not very bad because even at a 10 level difference it's still not much of a problem. That speaks for mid to late game.
Early game suffers a lots because of this, as Low Level just further push it into the extreme with Hydra and Nuwa 1 being two of the, if not the worst run ender contender for early game since you'll be wasting a lots of valuable resources on them and one may give up because of how tedious it is.
Not being able to have all 8 skill slots until Taito is bad, change my mind.
@@Panch_Boi This. 4 did this too. Just give us all the slots at the start >:(
This was sick. Love your videos
I did want to ask you one thing about your challenge runs.
Firstly, how do you get the items you need for each fight? Like wouldn't you end up using up things like purge charms and beads?
I'm famously stingy with most consumables that are either unfarmable or difficult to farm, so most of the time I just try to get by with items that are purchasable like Ambrosias, elemental Gems, and Chakra Drops (by trading with Jack-O'-Lantern after a quest). More valuable stuff like Chakra Pots, Beads, Amrita Showers, and Purge/Dispel Charms are kind of farmable, but it takes a lot of time to do so so I avoid those when I can. Amrita Showers and Purge/Dispel Charms can be found in the Taito area by checking a lot of random areas with a navigator, while Chakra Pots and Beads can only be farmed by talking to specific demons that have them as drop items with another of the same demon in the party, which causes the battle to end with a small chance that the demon will present their drop item as a gift. That's really not fun to do since the chance of receiving the drop item as a gift is like 5% and it can take 20-30 minutes or more just to get a single item.
Yeah I figured you had a workaround but I couldn't guess what it was since farming enemy drops would break the challenge rules. And beating a boss and resetting to replenish your supply wouldn't work either since you'd still have to beat the boss with the same rules in place. Like breaking the rules for one boss would have a knock on effect and ruin the run
@@hammerheadz1580 luck stacking users with evil melody easily farming somas and bead chains in the temple of eternity 😂😂😂
Just one more question: Did you fought Shiva prior to alignment lock (walking through the door after Metatron) in order to unlock the secret ending? Or you can still obtain it, as long as you complete the Shiva's quest before starting with Abdiel?
This is a small thing (and ultimately irrelevant to the video itself), but thank you for calling it "Secret Neutral Route" and not "True Neutral Route". Maybe that's just me being a stubborn asshole, but I really don't like when people use "true/non-true" dichotomy when referring to the MegaTen games outside of Persona, because it goes against one of the main ideas behind them (that being the exploration of your personal beliefs). Instead they just go for the "true" ending and call it a day, which just makes me sad.
I'm glad that someone else brought it up because I didn't want to add more than two comments on my own video.
I've mentioned this before, but I don't call it the "true" ending because I think that's detrimental to the game itself. First of all, calling it a "true" ending doesn't even make sense to me since all of the other endings tell a complete story and it's not like they're missing a piece relative to this one. Then you've also got this notion within the community that they "have to" do the "true ending", which of course causes a ton of players to complain about how the entirety of the Empyrean is a piece of cake since they took out Shiva before entering. There's a literal barrier preventing you from meeting Shiva until the Nahobino is Empyrean-level but everyone ignores that and grinds a bunch since they've been told that they have to do Shiva first for the "true ending". I'm not exaggerating when I say that I think this is an issue that the community brought upon itself. It's not like the route structuring is perfect here but the problem has been greatly exasperated by the community simply mislabeling the route when that title doesn't even accurately describe the content.
I think it's bizarre that so many SMT players treat the White ending in SMT IV as a full ending even though it cuts out a large part of the endgame (not that it isn't a complete ending), but will also act like the primary Neutral ending is incomplete even though it's nearly identical in scope to the Law and Chaos endings. Yes, this ending does go further but it's also in a slightly different direction, and if it didn't exist at all then the other Neutral ending would still be a fitting end to the game.
There's also probably something to be said here about Nocturne and the "True Demon Ending," which I've never really thought about. I think everyone kind of goes that route since there's a lot more to experience there rather than because of the idea that it's a "true ending", which isn't quite the same as the case here.
@@Bucketgetter If I recall correctly, the requirements for the secret ending is coded to be the acquisition of certain unlocked fusion recipes(Specifically Amanozako, Fionn, Khonsu-Ra, and Shiva), not actually the sidequest clears. This means that on a NG+ using the NEWBORN (NOT REBORN) option, you carry over fusion unlocks, but not levels, ignore the otherwise requisite sidequests and could fight Secret Neutral Lucifer at an even lower level. That is, again, if I'm remembering the actual conditions correctly.
@@alfredoguzman6269 There's one thing I'd like to correct here, Amanozako is actually not required for this funnily enough
That makes a lot more sense. I've always thought that this battle was more suited for a second playthrough, and if that's true then it justifies the setup of this route a lot more. I wish they had just blocked the route off entirely until NG+ since making it available on a first playthrough has done nothing but make the community complain incessantly.
I would like to see that claim sourced though, since I've never actually seen anything that mentions it's not actually linked to quest completion.
I agree, even now months later I still can't say for sure which of the endings was the one I preferred, whereas with a game like SMT4, it felt pretty clear what I agreed with the most. I suppose others prefer a story's message or ending to be direct and satisfying, but personally I also enjoy stuff like SMT5 where there they don't leave you with one clear "true" message, because I find the process of thinking about the endings and drawing meaning from them to be just as compelling.
Waiting for Demifiend low level :>)
That texture poping tho...
lol
beat the same boss on lvl 83