Why Jack Skellington isn't the True King of Halloween in The Nightmare Before Christmas
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
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Who is the hidden character who rules over Halloween Town in the Nightmare Before Christmas?
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Halloween Town in the Nightmare Before Christmas is an interesting place. There are ghosts and ghouls and witches scattered all around, yet the sense of hierarchy is all over the place. Is it more important to be the Pumpkin King or the Mayor? The Realm of Halloween Land extends far beyond the small town we know it for too... So could there be someone else above these two individuals? Someone hidden in the shadows, just out of mind. Let's talk about that!
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I think that the grim reaper isn't there as a personification of death itself, but rather as the scary personification of the fear to die. Halloween Town is all about being scary, even if it has some cheerful and happy aspect to it. And seeing that there are ghost and witches, I wouldn't be surprised if the townsfolk and such looked like they do because of people fearing those creatures, rather than people fearing those creatures because they are like they are.
In the lyrics of the very first somg, "This is Halloween", people sing about how their job is to scare, but they're not mean, so they just won't ever hurt anyone, just startle them.
And if you take in account monsters like Frankenstein, and witches, they're feared because typically they're creatures that can hurt you, and in most cases, totally would.
I thought the same thing but I couldn’t put it into words😂
The grim reaper isn't there to hurt you. Just to escort you to the other side. I once heard someone talk about a show where personifications of death and dreams were siblings and dreams said to death . "I don't understand why people come to me every night yet they fear you brother. For you are much kinder to them than I."
@@Sputterbug Well, need I remind you they were originally women who made a pact with Satan in exchange of powers normally used for evil. That's where the black robbed witch in a broom came from.
@@sanzei611 haha but no that’s just the practice of satanism, most witches are in fact not satanic and throughout thousands of years didn’t even believe in God or Satan. Witchcraft isn’t strictly related to any religion but is rather a practice of energy and inner reflection, however paganism and Wicca are religions closely linked to witchcraft. Witchcraft is a practice that has survived in various different cultures far longer than satanism and has been practiced from ancient times, as a witch I personally love the connection with my ancestors and the earth, it’s spiritually fulfilling!
That idea of witches came in the medieval times to the early pre-modern times, when let’s just say everyone was crazy about Christianity and the rich were obsessed with the ideas of the mystical, and religious figures and people saw it as a way to benefit off of others, who weren’t even witches, just reading some of the material about witch hunting makes me want to laugh. Those sorts of ‘witches’ were just scapegoats for what couldn’t be explained or someone’s anger at misfortune in their life. The history of witchcraft goes much further back as previously mentioned and is really interesting!
@@bittersweetti3351 I know, I know. Not too much but I know that. I just wanted to say that they are maybe there as representation of the fear of witches, not as actual witches that came from the real world, just the fear of them and it's reasoning.
I have a feeling that the narrator is the one who seems to be the one who knows the whole history of the town.but is never actually given a body itself,making me feel like they might be the soul,or the heart of the town.
In the original poem, the Narrator is revealed to be Santa, who is recalling the events that happened. You can even hear him explaining on some of the Nightmare Revisited tracks.
@@AnimeAngel88 well I was talking about I'm the perspective of just the movie being in play
apparently there's an epilogue in the end where the narrator talks about visiting Halloween town and asking Jack of he'd do it all over again. So the narrator is probably Santa
@@thedyslexicartist7381 yeah, is it a scene hidden in the creddits or a part of the actual movie? I guess i need to rewatch it,not complaining though
@@EMO_BITCH I think it's like part of the credits, she briefly mentions it in the video when she talks about Jack have kids
to quote the mayor of Halloween town: "Jack I'm only an elected official here, I can't make decisions by myself!!"
Because the pumpkin king is a festive title. Like prom king. It's elected but not an authority.
@@NoESanity that wouldn't explain why the elected official felt he couldn't make decisions by himself. Also no one else to our knowledge lays claim to this title whereas with purely festive titles there's a competition to claim it ever year. Jack faces no challenges and there are no former pumpkin kings running around or vying to regain the tie. Jack isn't just the year's pumpkin king he is The Pumpkin King. Also in a town that literally personifies a holiday wouldn't the festive title be the most important?
@@NoESanity You completely misunderstood the op
Honestly I thought that was just a dig at how elected officials are useless but hell it might be a clue to the lore.
@@TheShadowOfHumanity It's.
It's literally how democracy works...
I think Jack saying he'll be gone in a million years doesn't refer to himself dying but that perhaps the holiday itself will eventually die. We don't know what happens if people stop observing a holiday, but it seems probable that the residents of said holiday location would ceise to exist. This would explain the choice of the word plaque rather than a grave, because the holiday itself would remain a part of recorded history even if not observed
So it's still never going to ever be forgotten?
@@mistylover7398 We have records lf many historical holidays. Doesn't mean we practice them.
@@parrot998 🤨
@@mistylover7398 Also, doesn't mean most people know about them.
Isn't that what happened to oogie bugs day kinda just got merged with Halloween since lots of people are scared of bugs
This would depend on whether the grim reaper shown is actually the personification of death or just another spooky figure in the theme of the holiday. Halloween is both scary and fun, which Jack seems to embody as the Pumpkin King, but I doubt there's a lot of people who would describe Death that way. Although intervention from something as powerful as the reaper would explain how Jack survived being shot down. Death would have known Santa was in danger and that Jack needed to save him to restore the balance.
I had a dream about this. Jack was an American Revolutionary War soldier from the early days of planning; murdered by his friend and his body dumped. He wakes up in a land of trash/lost/forgotten things. While getting his bearings he sees tiny legs wiggling in a pile. He pulls out a simple cloth doll with one remaining button eye, a well loved toy of a little girl long gone. After setting the doll down he looks for a way out. Eventually he stumbles across the ruins of a library full of torn and burnt books. There he sits and studies until all the flesh on his body rots away and falls off. All the while, the grateful doll sits on a window sill, watching from afar with a group of black birds. Jack finally finds what he needs. Carving a lantern out of some rotting vegetables (probably a turnip) he ventures into the dark void between worlds. Eventually, he comes across Halloween Town where Oogy is king, but... he rein is that of Grimm fairy tales, where monsters do far more than just scare children. Outraged, Jack challenges Oogy, (not sure if a fight or a contest) winning of course. He finally got the revolution he was denied! They made him their new king and would not be swaded, but being free from a king's rule was what he fought for in life. He excepted, but only if they would also democratically select a mayor. Meanwhile... the cloth doll had fallen asleep. When it woke and found Jack gone it frantically hurried off blindly into the void. After Jack was king, the very weak doll was crawling across the Coble stone entrance where it enviably "died". A young Dr. Walking by finds the doll. He still sees the powerful spark in it and wonders if it would help him finally overcome his failures in bringing a patchwork woman to life.
That's an amazing idea! You should make it into a Fanfic or something :)
@@tomboyangel78 what's weird is that it was only after this dream that I watched a play through of the sequel game... where Oogy is fought in an actual land of trash!!
I think death is just too big of a person to be responsible for one time of year, in all likelihood jack symbolizes what halloween is which is a combination of things including the remembrance of the dead, harvest and the changing of seasons.
Rembrance of the dead, harvest and the changeing of seasons.
I see it more as Death is a constant companion, accompanying us everywhere, but remaining in the shadows because he knows he makes people uncomfortable.
💀 : 😁👋
People : 🤨😳😨😱
💀 : 🤨🤷♂️ ooooookkkkaaay
I think the Grim reaper is more likely a being on the next level up from holiday spirits. These would be icons that embody much bigger concepts. Like nature, time or Death. He's there looking in on Jack because he's aware of Jack's mental state and later his discovery of the entire system of holiday worlds.
Yes, I agree.
If the grim reaper doesn't escort my soul to Halloween Town when I die....I'm filing a complaint.
Just use the force.
Here's my thoughts: Death is not a resident of the Town of Halloween, but is there as an important figure. My reasoning is that while death is commonly associated with Halloween, it's not the ONLY holiday to be so. There are at least two other Holidays to have death as a part of their tradition, and if we look at historical context, two more. Easter is the day of Christ's resurrection, meaning that Death the figure would have some reason to care about it, and Thanksgiving would also something for them to have stake in because the main festivities are the the harvest and eating of crops, and livestock. Historically, both St. Patrick's day and Valentine's day could also have death association, as St. Patrick was said to have died on March 17th and this is why he is celebrated on this day specifically. Saint Valentine is the same deal, only instead of dying through unknown means, he was...martyred (plus there was the Valentine's Day Massacre, but that's a different issue). So, Death has at least some tangential association with at least 5 of the Holidays that have doors. My theory is that Death is not the ruler of Halloween, in any sense, but is a far more important figure, they are the reason the Holiday doors exist at all, maybe they were even the creator of the doors. Think, if the holidays were meant to stay separate, then they would be, but the doors exist and can apparently be reached through any holiday, so SOMEONE has to have made them to travel between the worlds reliably, as I think the forest is one way, you don't seem to be able to get BACK to any holiday through it. I think that Death is the Doorman, the Gatekeeper, and the reason they show up at the town meeting is that they KNOW what Jack did, they know he went through one of the doors.
That is interesting that Death would have a connection to all the other holidays in some way, shape or form. I wonder what he would look like if someone caught a glimpse of him in other places? Would he take a more serene appearance to match the tone of the "nicer, friendly" holidays?
But hay that's just a theory a holiday theory nightmare moon .
Parkland shooting
I kind of like the idea that Jack is the Grim Reaper's son. This could also explain why Halloween is now a more fun holiday compared to when All Hallows Eve was a little more serious. Jack took up the mantle from his father who decided to focus more on his duties as the Grim Reaper.
Awe man... I've never thought of that! I did aways wonder how Jack and the Mayor's dynamic works... but this brings a whole new light on the topic!
I always assumed that Jack was the embodiment of the holiday and had control over the fun stuff directly related to Halloween while the mayor is an administrator who handles the day to day.
Please do a video on the Corpse Bride I think you would really like that movie🧟♀️👰
I'm sure she's seen it dude. She's in her late 20's/early 30's.
Maybe Jack's the king in the same way queen Elizabeth is the queen, she's officially a monarch however the prime minister and the parliament are the ones that actually run things.
Good point
@@taylorm7777 Thanks
Well the Mayor loses his mind crying that he can't make decisions by himself while Jack is away in Christmas town. This suggests it's Jack more than the Mayor who runs things.
@@oxtheunlikelycontemplator2682 I guess it's like having an assistant. I mean, we see Jack overseeing everyone's progress on Christmas whereas I think the only thing the Mayor did was recordkeep when Jack assigned everyone roles and direct the band shortly before takeoff on Christmas Eve.
It seems to me that it may be that Jack represents Halloween as a holiday in terms of what you'd first think of and is therefore a representative of the holiday itself, whereas Death may be the representative of Halloween's qualities and original spirit - essentially, Death is the OG ruler, and each holiday probably has one of those sorts of spirits who perhaps represents each town/holiday/the qualities associated with each holiday. Halloween Town has Death, Christmas and Easter may have the initial Gods associated with those holidays, or other spirits who have relevance to it, you get the gist. Because after all, why would there be doors to other worlds if they weren't supposed to interact at some point? They probably had meetings to keep everything in line. It's likely that they had managerial type positions to regulate interaction between each world.
According to something I read, Jack is the embodiment of Halloween itself. You could basically equate him, and Santa, to being a god. Even if he does abdicate his position and power to one of his children at some point in the future, Jack cannot die the same way humans do. And that's not bringing up his claim of being dead, since he can take off his head, to recite Shakespearian quotation.
Jack is definitely in charge, the head honcho, but the Mayor is the one who oversees day to day activities. It's not uncommon in real life governments.
The Reaper in the movie is just meant to be another creepy resident of Halloween Town, like the Devil. It's just for more spooky fun. The appearance of both was likely a choice of aesthetic to make Halloween Town as creepy as possible in order to contrast with the bright, happy and exciting aesthetic of Christmas Town.
I think you are probably right, but isn't it more fun to make up theories?
I would say Lock, Shock and Barrel are the true spirit of Halloweentown. Without them this is no holiday, just monsters and Specters. A holiday is not just about what is celebrated but who celebrates it.
I'm honestly surprised you didn't go down the, "Is the Grimm Reaper Jack's Father/Mother?!" theory rabbit hole..,
Maybe the reaper prefers the 'background character' role. Lingering and ever present, but also is rarely seen by the inhabitants.
But I have a better idea. Maybe the reaper is more of the physical embodiment of the death of a holiday, and he shows up to bring about the end, but since Jack tries to usurp Christmas that causes death to stay longer. Maybe??
I love how the devil and the grim reaper are just there, they just show up and nobody in Halloween town cares.
I think that in the Nightmare Before Christmas Death takes up more of a role like "The Auditors" from Disc World, except less meddlesome. I'd expect Death to kind of keep an eye on what's going on as it pertains to it's duties, the rebirth festival and when Jack proposes to make massive changes to the order of how things are.
It could be Stingy Jack being the king of Halloween or Lord Samhain, an Irish deity.
I just picture it's Death from Diskworld dropping by because he likes the vibe of a certain Skelly man.
Maybe the reaper isn't Halloween town exclusive, and an important figure in every holiday or an important figure outside of even the holiday worlds
Oogie Boogie isn't a casual citizen of Halloween town. He was the king of his own holiday, that has been long forgotten.
My sister noticed the grim reaper first as a kid and said "This guy should be running the place." And I as a kid used to think the grim reaper was Jack's father.
Interesting video!. The Grim Reaper is similar to Father Time who also has a scythe - so if Father Christmas is the head of Christmas Town this theory in a way makes sense.
What a lovely gift for my birthday, some secret lore about my favorite Halloween movie.
Those are some bold words in that title. Looking forward to seeing what your take is!
i think death might just be some fun foreshadowing for how jacks Christmas will go
His eyes in the thumbnail omg I a m t e r r i f ie d
Okay, on the brief note of the Mayor equivalent in Christmas Town...
If you read "Zero's Journey" there is a head elf (unnamed) who keeps the working elves in line when they get distracted from present-making, which happens a lot when you live in a world devoted to singing, tasty treats, and warm fuzzy feelings. He also has a similar body build to the Mayor and helps Santa and company to put out a fire in the factory. Santa has an office in the factory where he seems to always be checking his list... definitely more than twice.
- And if you're worried I've spoiled too much, trust me, that comic has a lot more to check out about Christmas Town than what I just mentioned. 🎄
I find your voice so soothing :3 I could listen to you talk about spooky things and feel so nice, like oh that's scary but everything's fine, back to the topic of the video, maybe that's why oogie tried to eat santa, so that holiday spot was empty for someone to take it, regardless of jack staying on halloween or going to Christmas, oogie had a chance to take over a holiday.
I feel like the grim reaper himself wouldn't be the king of halloween town as death itself isn't inheritely scary.
But it does make sense that he would be there since death is a fear atleast everyone alive has worried about.
Plus you said yourself The Grim Reaper is a guide to the afterlife or other worlds, so that might tie into how all the residences have their own specialized jobs.
Perhaphs Death is the spiritual guide of Halloween Town just as how baby Christ would be for Christmas, always present even as mere mentions or implications but never leaving no matter what
I wonder if her quiet whispery voice is artistic choice or just how she likes to talk.
I think the citizens of Halloween Town are personifications of our fears. The Grim Reaper is just one of the many personifications of the fear of death. It wouldn't surprise me if they were others like him.
I love this interpretation a lot and it gives a different view to the opening song
It makes sense since the main goal of Halloween is fear above all else. It is no coincidence that the one thing feared most being death would be the subtle king of Halloween town/universe.
2 things girl where have you been and OML ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!!!
She has been at her other channel, abitlate.
I love the intellectual quality of your videos. It makes my day so much better to watch them
I would love if, you could make a comparison video between the Netflix series "A Tale Dark & Grimm" and the Original story since it's kinda claiming to be close to the original.
Death might have payed a visit on the meeting because during the winter holidays are the highest rates for death irl. He might have been there to see how this may progress or degress his job.
Jack's eye sockets at 0:20 have a slight gleam in them, and makes him look like he has black eyes vs empty eye sockets, and it honestly is slight unnerving xD
Speaking of the Halloween spirit, there is a character that is called Sam, but he's not from the nightmare for Christmas universe. He's from a separate universe entirely called trick r treat And he's the spirit of Halloween
I always thought Jack was just a figure head like the queen, while the mayor was the real ruler like parliament. But Mayor's obviously a dip with no spine, so he looks to Jack who has a spine.
Bone joke.
There was once a film theory that suggested that Jack Skellington could actually be Ichabod Crane, (long story, I don’t remember all details but it come out quite plausible). The theory goes that he was taken to Halloweentown beheaded and basically turned into a slave of the Headless Horseman who was a cruel dictator of the town and the residents eventually started calling Ichabod “Jack” because without a head he couldn’t tell them his name forcing them to pick one for him.
At some point though he managed to get his head and turn the tables on the horseman and led the town in a revolt driving the headless horseman away forever!
If that’s the case it would make sense that Jack would be widely admired and adored and that they’d want him to take part in planning events and so forth. But assuming that Ichabod was happy to help but didn’t really want to be the one in charge he could’ve convinced the people to hold an election and then not run which is where the mayor comes in. Jack is the hero everyone looks up to and comes to and he is always happy to help and doesn’t hate the adoration and attention, and the mayor is the one who plays the part of the man in charge but often feels overwhelmed as he’s “only an elected official” and Jack often gets roped into the part of leader anyway.
I didn’t see the Grim Reaper himself becoming involved but here we are. I also referenced this on the video you did about Oogie Boogie possibly being Lock, Shock and Barrel’s kidnappers and suggesting the possibility that Jack might’ve made it against the rules to kidnap people from the normal world and he being the “Boogie man” would obviously be furious about that which would also explain his animosity toward Jack and it would fit in perfectly with this.
Maybe that’s why he wants to take the position from Jack which he knows is possible because the headless horseman was in charge before Jack took over. The main reason he doesn’t is because he just has 3 henchmen that are all children, and Jack has the entire town that would rally behind him at a snap of his phalanges!
I’m going to see this live for my birthday this month. Billie Eilish and Weird Al Yankovic are replacing Catherine O’Hara and Paul Reubens.
I just wanna say that you've helped me through some rough times, I love how calming your voice is and how Tim Burton esque feeling your animation style is, I also love that you are a cat lady like me, happy Halloween you really need to be praised.
P.S I love how your theorys are always backed with some evidence and how they make sense, you probably won't see this but I wish you the best
My one counterpoint is that your premise relies on Halloweentown being the dedicated Afterlife, when there is nothing but a few ghosts. If anything, the Holiday Trees grow and expand to make room for archetypes, which are necessary for each holiday to thrive. Jack himself is the Master of Ceremonies, an honorable role, but in terms of actual leadership he’s definitely lacking. He’s more like a hometown’s beloved football star turned celebrity, a star but certainly not the focal point:
That is interesting. Funny enough in the comic/manga series, The Nightmare Before Christmas: Zero's Journey, there's the Elf Manager who keeps the other elves in line in Christmas Town while Santa does his usual stuff. And sometimes this Elf Manager uses his magic candy cane to make the elves into zombie workers if they're slacking on the job.
I was thinking of Coraline which made me think of this channel and how I hadn't gotten a a notification in awhile. Turns out youtube failed me. Happy to come and catch up. Thank you for the, as per usual, awesome video.
That said, if kwanzaa were to completely euserp Christmas as the holiday season, then maybe the landscape would change, then ruler would be something else. If jackolanters were to go out of fashion, then perhaps something else would also then become the new king of Halloween town. Christmas town is so named because that is the holiday it represents, it isn't expressly the north pole, wouldn't find it in our world. The worlds, the doors, it's really more the zeitgeist.
Listen, the Grim Reaper can be seen as both a puppeteer behind the scenes and also the one to end things when they go too far or rather meet their end. Their presence can be a Grim reminder to Jack to not go overboard and completely forget about consequences. Consequences ranging from being dethroned to death in the mortal realm.
I think you have overlooked a very key feature. They are a democracy. The mayor is elected by the people to govern and deal with budgets and administrative things. It stands to reason that, much like there are harvest princesses and queens, that the role of pumpkin king is simply a title given to the person who makes all the necessary plans and arrangements for the halloween party.
We hear the mayor clearly state that he is only the elected official and that he can't make decisions by himself. Perhaps not because he is incompetent (because if he were, he would not be reelected) but because he requires a dedicated official also elected by the people. And who better than a charismatic skeleton to take the role?
Omfg thank you for the community poll because I never saw the video pop up or got a notification.
I interpret Jack and Sandy Claws as Kings over their Realm with elected officials serving to regulate minor day to day troubles while the Kings serve to keep the realm safe from threats both foreign and domestic. Sort of a Hero King representation. But The Grim Reaper having a hierarchical position in Halloween town makes sense though not as its king. I feel The Reaper is Halloween Realms Divine power, representing the aspect that fuels Halloween realm, Fear. Im certain Christmas Realm has a similar Divine power such as Joy or Hope that runs counter.
Their jobs are not to interfere with "Life" in their realms but rather to be the agents of balance between all realms.
What a Coincidence: I just read the short story "Out of The Dark" by David B. Silva (from the Anthology "October Dreams") yesterday. In this Story the Protagonist calls Halloween the Birthday of the Grim Reaper (the Story is about both Halloween and the reaper in general).
I love your videos!! Your voice is so soothing, and your animation has a creative and unique style that I haven’t seen from others. Please keep up the amazing work❤️
Halloween Town's residents are aspects of fear. The Grim Reaper is there but so is the Devil, I highly doubt both would actually be there at the same time. The ones we see are just personifications of the fear of Death and the fear of the Devil. Oogie Boogie is unique in that he originated from the Bug Day holiday world, but when humans abandoned/forgot that holiday it was erased from existence. Oogie managed to gather a sizable amount of his people and make it to the holiday doors at the edge of his world. When they arrived at Halloween Town Oogie decided to take over, forcing Jack to rise up and defend his home even though he's just a citizen. Oogie managed to stake a claim in the Halloween landscape after his failed invasion, he's legitimately scary so he had a place in the holiday. He became the Boogieman and the Shadow on the Moon, not to mention a lot of people are afraid of bugs.
My opinion is that all the characters are relevant to being the "true leader" of Halloweentown. My theory is that as time changes monsters who were the focus were the leader bc they were the most scary, the most known. For example, witches, were probably the leader of Halloweentown during things such as the Salem Witch trails. So boogieman wanting to take leadership of it in the movie makes sense to me, because a common thing I was told as a kid was that the boogieman is going to get me. So he has some popularity among the spirit of halloween.
Since Sally will be given the title of "Pumpkin Queen" in the novel I think it really is a nobility title...
Your quiet voice is very relaxing to listen to. Good to chill out to.
Well I mean it has been known that with people who have a Royal status or at least “king/queen” can appoint others to step in and fill the role that they had, since he has a separate responsibility he would need to have someone else take over for him and him choosing Jack would make sense as how much the people of hallow town love him, meaning he must have assumed the role for a long while, plus I believe why death chose Jack to fill his role is because of his spirit and love for the holiday. And this theory about death and Jack could make sense because unlike most characters death repeatedly can be seen in the same place with Jack always in the background
I think death is the spirit of Halloween and as a contrast, love is the spirit of Christmas in this movie. That explains why as hard as Jack was trying to understand Christmas, he couldn't because he didn't know the spirit of Christmas. It wasn't until he fell in love with Sally at the end of the movie, that he understood the meaning of the holiday.
I know this isn't from the movie, BUT I AM curious about the doors from the Holiday Trees in the game "The Nightmare Before Christmas: Oogie's Revenge".
When Oogie Boogie stole the doors from the Holiday Trees, what exactly happens to that doorway? Are they still accessible, or are they blocked due to the doors being missing? I feel as though those doors have a key role in all of this, seeing as they WERE the ones Jack came across in the original movie and led him to Christmas Town.
Honestly, the sequel in game form gave me both great nostalgic feelings and opened some more questions for us fans to ponder!
Honestly it's hard to say if Death is the true ruler as hard to say what type of government Halloweentown specifically. It seemingly is a democratic world where you have the Mayor (elected) and the pumpkin king (seemingly more governor than a true king as seemingly the title is given/earned by scariest creature). Now that all said, Death seemingly in some cultures is less of a real ruler, but more of a judge or senator so he doesn't run it truly but if a law is broken (like interdimensial law of worlds) than Death steps in to correct it. I can see why Jack is the king in this case than as Oogie Boogie could very well be scarier but maybe is too chaotic to actually be pumpkin king and in charge.
Also I would love to see Mrs. Claus be the one to run the governmental leader, though probably there's a head elf and Christmas town is like an actual royalship (ironically)
I kinda saw the Pumpkin King was a title given not by who was the most popular, but one that was either earned or won. I never really read the novel, but in the movie Oogie Boogie did state that if he killed Jack, he would "rule the town". So, I'm assuming that Death may of been a Pumpkin King at one point in the past, but either passed the title down, or Jack earned the title after him. Perhaps Death is just another Oogie Boogie, a quiet antagonist that will challenge Jack when the time is right, or maybe the death we see is just a child of a previous Death? Its a fun thought to itch at, at any rate~! Great video~!
You have become one of my favorite channels, just wanted to throw that out there :) thank you!
You should work with that dude on the FoundFlix channel. He does horror reviews and even tries to piece together hidden lore in his reviews. You 2 together doing theory videos could be really fun to watch.
I like to imagine that the Halloween world has no real leader, or multiple leaders. Halloween is a chaotic holiday with many different aesthetics. It would make sense they would have multiple rulers.
You actually posted this on my birthday and I just wanna say thank you, you made my day a lot better
I want to know how they can be unaware of other holidays if the Easter Bunny is watching the Halloween parade
Jack is “dead”. He disclosed this in his “Lament”. Therefore, he cannot be alive. Sally is a re-animated corpse, also “dead”. That nixes “children”, I think. It also appears Jack transforms from a vine into his anthropomorphic form at will. Perhaps he withers and regenerates constantly In the manner of a pumpkin. The “Grim Reaper” depicted in “Nightmare” may not literally be THE “Grim Reaper”, but merely another resident of Halloweentown wearing a costume. I love this movie and it’s soundtrack.
I agree with the “Mayor” being a manager for Halloweentown. He is someone Jack coordinates with, but to whom he is not subordinate. Jack is a magical spirit, just like Santa Claus. He has bigger things to do than run a town’s affairs. It’s just that the town’s “gross domestic product” and “chief export” is “HALLOWEEN”, one day a year, with 364 days of preparation.
This is a great vid. Well-done!
I always figured that Jack was the one in charge, as he is King. The mayor as elected official is in charge but still has to come to Jack for everything, the town coming to a halt altogether when Jack turns out to be missing. Oogie-boogie I would argue is also probably in a powerful position, contrary to Jack. If Jack represents the spirit of Halloween as we know it now, costumes and candy which is how I would explain most of the characters seen in the background. Frankenstein- not merely monster mind you, he was made by the Doctor Frankenstein and as he was given life by him, he would be a Frankenstein as well. N/A Frankenstein or perhaps John Doe Frankenstein to the deadbeat dad Doctor Frankenstein. Frankenstein, the grim reaper, all these are popular costumes and werther truly meant to represent or in fact be in some version, I cannot say without first knowing more about the human world that exists that they all are a part of. Is Frankenstein canon or fiction to them? Are the beings of Halloween town there because they actually exist or because they manifest from our imaginations.
Oogie-boogie I think represents more the negative aspects. The trick or treaters serve him, as they are a part of Halloween town, they still come when summoned by Jack and yet they do as he says, though twisting his orders in order to serve their master. Oogie-boogie is more the gluttony, the greed. The demand of treats in fear of foul tricks.
As for is Santa so specifically the ruler alone over Christmas town, I would like to think it is a big place. There are no doubt mountains and caves of snow, ice, stone and human and animal bones where the dreaded Krampus lives as the counterpoint to Santa. Good vs evil though no less important for one reason or another for the spirit of the season.
As for the negative aspects of Easter, what foul creatures might be lingering in the shadows of that world? I imagine that not all eggs hidden are found and do turn fowl, yes I know. That also, not all jellybeans left behind are actually jellybeans. Rodent droppings if that wasn't clear.
Love the video! I know it's not quite the same vibe, but have you thought about videos for Book of Life or Coco?
Pyscho goreman is such a fun movie, I definitely recommend it
I swear I love your voice I’m happy I found your Channel
Life's no fun without a good scare!🎃👽👻
I like this. I feel like the connection to real world lore is meant to be a piece of the puzzle too. I can't find anything relating to Jack's character or title predating the story, but the Grim Reaper is a widely known symbol. The existence of the personified Boogeyman kind of shoots a hole in this train of thought, but it's still worth considering
Halloween Town Local: Are you on vacation?
Death: Vacation?
I never thought of Jack as the "leader" exactly, he was just a really popular and respected citizen, the "Pumpkin King" title was more a job title as the point person for the Halloween Holiday. He never really displayed any control, sure people listened to him and typically did what he asked, but more out of respect for him than because he was ordering them to as a leader.
I always thought jack was just "King of the pumpkin patch". "Our man jack is king of the pumpkin patch everyone hail to the pumpkin king."
Jack is just corporate Halloween. Death is Samhain.
If that's true than it would make sense to have Santa be the one who's telling the story and remember he says that "it was a long time ago, longer now than it seems..." so it's possible that if this theory is true, that some years have passed and that maybe it's closer to the million year bench mark than we thought as Santa recounts the story/memory. And lastly as the ending narration closes the story on the soundtrack, the way that Santa brings up the idea of Jack still being there when he went to visit, he phrases it as this: "And there was old Jack still looking quiet thin..." note that Santa says there, was and old as in when he's telling this story, that Jack just might've already passed-on. And the word "old" is also brought-up in the song Poor Jack when Jack mentions the plaque with his name on it as if he were aware of his own possible limits on his mortality/immorality. Although now this makes me question, if Jack does age than since Santa is also a holiday icon, does he have a limit on his mortality/immortality too?
I'd love another film in the NBC universe (and brilliant stop-motion of course) that focused more on Halloween rather than Christmas.
I kind think about the Legend of the jackolantern when it comes to this. Jack being a trickster made neither heaven or he!! want him when he died... so he was cursed to walk the land a lost being. If we think maybe the legend played into this, could halloween town have been made by death (Reaper) and god for Jack. They realized that Jack had to go somewhere (or he'll cause trouble). The creation of a place where he could play the part of "celebrity" that kept him from running crazy throughout the year. Death then checks in frequently to make sure order is kept, but he let s this new Christmas scheme play through. Death knows what will happen...with Sally's abilities and her moral outlook she would be pushed to interfere. Letting all this happen would knock some sense into Jack and give Sally her happily ever after (that she deserves)
In this I'm placing death and the reaper as the same person, it could be the reaper is more a employee of death...but it can be an adapted theory.
Noooo I missed the part when you first post! Nooooooooooo! I love your videos and awesome theory.
If you really think about it death and father time and mother nature are all technically higher entities that have to travel every single realm
I absolutely enjoyed this video on Halloween town and the true King of Halloween Deth :) cheers and thankyou Abitfrank
Abitfrank, I like your voice, it's a good fit for your topics 👍
i do want to point out that Devil is also a Character in halloween town so why he also dosent have any ruling kinda thing brings up an interesting point in it of it self so lol
I bet ol’ grimmy boi is jack’s dad (bc skeleton) and he’s the og king but he passed the crown 👑 to Jack so he could retire
Wait … I always thought you that you DID see Frankenstein’s monster again after the beginning. o.o’ Think back to the ‘Making Christmas’ number. That one massive dude who stomps by while pushing the pumpkin wheelbarrow, and in a very deep, low voice says: “..Making Christmas..” …who the heck was he then?! xD Lol. Just thought I’d point that out! Kinda funny. 😂👌🏻❤️
Considering the fact that Jack can have children, and how much the Grim Reaper, traditionally at least, and Jack look alike maybe Death is Jack's father who gave his son his crown so he could focus on his duties in the human world? It would explain why Death is there for such big events in Jack's life but remains on the edge, wanting to allow his son to rule as his wishes, but to be there should Jack wish for his help?
Theres also the devil as a resident in halloween town
8:37
HOW DARE YOU TREAT -MY FRIENDS- JACK SO *SHAMEFULLY* !!!
jk but that really caught me off guard
I love Jack Skellington. I love The Nightmare Before Christmas. It's my favorite stop motion Disney movie from Tim Burton. ;)
Your voice is so soothing I could listen to a video that was hours long lol
Not only is the reaper a resident of Halloween Town, but literally Satan is there too