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I remember healing as a resto shaman way back when. I had just got into raiding for the first time in ICC. I didn't want to heal but they convinced me to try it. I fell in love. ICC gear is so good that I just machine gunned Chain Heals everywhere without really any worry about mana. I also remember my GM was a holy paladin and she died immediately to Marrowgar's flames and I solo healed the 10m fight. We killed him JUST as I ran out of mana.
Wotlk is a great expansion for healers, you can really play any of the specs and as long as you are a good healer it will work. From my experience, all the "'weaker" specs really are not that much weaker and you can easily overcome their limitations by using all of their spells/kit, or being good on mana management and anticipation.
Yeah, the real difference is just a number on a heal meter (does it matter if noone dies?) and chugging mana pots. That said the "weaker" healers are definitelly suplementary, not the core.
@@nevoyu Holy priest is so underrated tho. insane heals, insane utility, movement speed on shield, can cleanse diseases and poisons aka slows etc also they have one of the best defensive talents in the game Blessed Ressilence. they heals are insanely good. they bring so much value to the team. you really feel like Jesus
@@nevoyu Holy is the best aoe healer of the expansion. Hallion, Lana, Syndragosa, Lich King fights is where holy shines. If you’re ok but still get kicked - you’re playing with wrong people. Find a guild.
@@sheesh3028 you forget what game you're playing, BE the best healer, dont fotm sperg and pick whats the most powerful, pallies are the strongest but who cares, healing can be very boring at times, you need to pick a healer whos gameplay appeals to you, feel free to do what all zoomers do, and min max to the point where you have zero fun and burn out and quit the game because you skipped all the fun content.
Basically as a disc priest I macroed my shield to Mouse 6 and it automatically spams casts while I switch targets throughout the raid, with the mandatory Prayer of Mending on the maintank at every cooldown. #1 healer in every encounter with very good mana control if properly communicating with shamans' Mana Tide and shadowpriests' Hymn of Hope without necessarily relying on Innervates. Absorbs are truly meta in Wrath because they soak most of raid damage taken every 30 seconds, which is (in most fights) around 10k-20k on each player(except tanks). Two shields per ~50-60 seconds count for a lot of damage mitigation and HoTs can cover most of the rest, which overall allows other healers to focus more on keeping the tanks in good health. The reason priests can be #1 on healing meters is that they mitigate the damage instead of heal it, so other healers don't get much other than snipes or HoT ticks. Thanks for coming to my 6 am Ted Talk, goodnight.
I recommend taking a look at the addon called Clique. It lets you assign spells to mouseover clicks. e.g. Right-click on someone's raid frame to cast shield on that person without changing your current target. Shift right-click to cast renew on them, mouse button 4 to cast dispel on them, etc. To shield your raid, you just go down the line right-clicking all the frames.
@@stefankristensen4643 The macro is basically assigning the hotkey for your shield to one of your mouse buttons and have the macro be constantly casting.
I really enjoy your videos, thorough and refreshing from a long-time wrath players. This one I have a little bit of an issue with- and it is that we missed a huge concept on healing throughput capabilities. For some credibility here, I have been a guild and raid leader through wrath and have led my team to LK kills on both 10m and 25m. During MOP, legion, and wod I exclusively played wotlk private servers- it’s my favorite expac by far. I also have been 2400 on both resto sham and holy paladin and extensively raided with both. My gripe with this video is there is no talk of tank vs raid healing. Disc/Holy paladins have amazing single target throughput- however if a lethal raid wide damage mechanic happens, they fall behind. They cannot catch up the entire raid like a resto druid, resto sham, or even the low value holy priest can. Disc can get ahead of the damage as long as the spikes are infrequent, not a guarantee. Do disc/holy pal have the best throughput in the game? Of course, however they can’t split up this healing amongst many targets and so it just does not fit a lot of the fight mechanics. I think Resto sham/resto druid did not get enough rating in this regard. Resto sham is the only healer that can both tank heal with strong direct heals and raid heal with chain/riptides- they are invaluable to a raid team since they can pick take over and role due to deaths/no show/fight demands. For this I would add 1-2 stars to complexity, they are not a mindless chain heal spam anymore. They can easily outheal a holy/disc on most cleave heal fights. I would also put them at 5 stars for pvp as well, heroism + ranged kick + grounding is outstanding for a healer. They counter any spell caster comp, and there are many. Late game resto sham most players could not even kill through earth shield and the shammy could afk. Ghost wolf + slow totem is an outstanding way to deal with any melee- late game they really don't have a counter except maybe ret+ms. Not to mention cleansing totem for rogues/dks and tremor for warlocks, amazing utility/kit. In 3s the only other healer that can compete is hpal. Resto druid has the best raid wide throughput with wild growth, additionally their kit fits so well in many wrath mechanics. Think of saurfangs mark, or any intense dot mechanics- a couple life blooms and the healers don’t have to worry about it anymore. A holy pally or disc would constantly have to put energy into that target, where the druid does a couple globals and done. They also have an outstanding scale with haste and spell power- probably the most dramatic scaling on a healer class in wrath. For this I would give them 5 stars on scaling. In 25m, having 2-3 rdruids is not terrible either and another star for stacking would be my opinion there. One final notes is that disc should be a 3 max for pvp. Amazing for 2s, mana burns are great but they really don’t have a lot of comps for 3s. RMP is their only fit, which is a strong comp until tsg/phd pops off and when that happens they absolutely destroy the priest. Any melee comp, especially dks/wars will completely disable a disc priest and there is literally nothing the disc can do to get away; and there are a lottt of dks/wars. I would give disc a 2 in 3s and a 4/5 in 2s. Paladins really do not have a lot of healing buttons, their biggest gripe is that they are kind of boring if you play them a lot. I would do a 1 or 2 stars for complexity. Again great video overall- loved the overview!
Yep, old game so I guess we all know this in advance. However be prepared to be declined from pugs if a Holy Paladin rolls up the same way everyone got ditched as soon as a resto Shaman arrived in TBC if the pug had less than 5 shammies total :P
he has no idea what he is talking about, Resto shaman/rdruid/hpala are the three strongest healers pvp/pve, disc priest actually takes a massive back seat and is difficult to play/be good with. Holy is still the meta in 90% Of wrath pve content, legit clueless morons, might want to check with people who been playing pservers for 15+ years lol
@@styxstyxstyx666numberofcom7 Yeah thats what I remember as well. Disc priest excels when you're going into bosses undergeared (traditionally) and gets most of its value out of the additional buffer via the bubble. I remember rDruids and rShamans were highly sought after back then.
My first experience with progression raiding was in Wrath. I was on really late because of my job. A good guild grabbed me as a pug on my holy paladin. He said stand here and put a marker down. My job was spam holy light on the tank doing Sartharion.
Pretty much the same. I was young and nervous doing 25man raids, but being holy paladin was as easy as putting beacon on off tank, while healing main tank. That's why Valithria was my favorite boss, as I was doing something more than usual.
In addition, haven't seen the need for hpals, I was the only one during our wraith raiding. Most paladins in a guild were retri or prot like my father at that time.
@@modestpixel4686 well you could also do some challenges like solo heal icc25hc some bosses, or 2 heal whole ICC 25hc with LoD (lk25hc achiev)with Rshaman only, solo heal Bane(lk10hc achiev) etc. There is definitely more into Hpala than standing and casting HL on tanks 24/7.
Honestly, as long as you're playing a healer you won't have any problems with finding a guild lol. Anyone who's feeling averse to trying a "less viable" spec really shouldn't be worried.
Nearly all of Holy Paladins utility buttons get better too, Freedom/BoP/Sacrifice no longer wipe out blessings, Lay on Hands no longer wipes out your mana pool, Salvation doesn't eat a mandatory blessing slot any more, Judgements all get better, Auras apply to the entire raid, Divine Protection becomes useful, Hammer of Judgement gets a built-in interrupt, Seal of Wisdom becomes a reliable way to build mana, so many little buffs in addition to the new stuff
Thats some strong copium. Holy pals being strong as fuck as they are, the healer amount has increased aswell. We got 12 total of dks, thats dps + tank, signed up to our wotlk roster. And only in holy specc ,theres 10 paladins. Total theres like 18.
Druid's are more desired than holy priests and resto shamans. They are fantastic at raid healing and have massive throughput. Revitalise talent is excellent. They have 7 heals to choose from for different situations. And can also tank heal quite well with healing touch and nourish. They also have massive sustain. Not as efficient as holy pallies, but they are only behind by a whisker.
While revitalize and tree form buff are great and totally love resto druids hots mechanics(would always take one in 25 mans)it still remains a spec that does a lot of overheal, no way resto druid Is going to be more desired than resto sham(especially in 10mans), so put down the copium, chain heal Is the most efficient healing spell in the game by a mile, can tank heal comfortably as well and can outsnipe little damage on raid consistently(especially with high amounts of haste, stat that they are going to value way more than druids), take totems/heroism/hex and armor buff on healing crits
I finally broke down and started a healer for the first time since original tbc. And I’m leveling a resto shaman currently lvl 72 and I’m enjoying it quite a bit. Heirlooms and this xp buff on an av weekend are suuuuper nice lol
For parsing (and in general if you dont need more/better specific healing) you only want to bring resto druids and 1 disc priest, as the revitalize stacks and provides a lot of dps
I mained a resto shammy during wotlk and I can assure you, spamming chain heal was a surefire way to running oom fast, it was the hallmark of the noob resto in my eyes. Resto shammies should be spamming lesser healing wave and healing wave instead. LHW is a much quicker and mana efficient cast, and with enough crit you could pump out big heals that cleaved through Ancestral Awakening.
Druids should really get a bump for the stacking category. Of Shaman, hpriest and druid; the druid bringing an additional battle res, regenerating other power sources and innervate. It does seem just a single star more desirable than the others. Shaman's most powerful abilities are less likely to be beneficial when there are more than one. Their improved mana spring is simply outclassed by holy paladin BoW. Priest are highly adaptable, and despite paladin and all other specs of priest being able to do so, they are very effective magic dispellers. The unique benifits of bringing a second hpreist are nearly non existant however particularly as in an organised comp this would be your third healing priest, meaning you are lacking in other areas of utility.
This xpac kinda started the whole 'bring the player not the class' kinda thing, where it doesn't matter really what you play, you'll clear the content. And that is a good thing. I don't like resto shaman healing, much prefer druid, so that's what I'll be playing.
As someone who hardcore dual mained hpaly and rsham in original wrath (i played 14-16 hrs daily for the entire xpac) and currently playing classic wrath, Id say the two are very close and it comes down to player skill because both can pump mega heals. Chain heal is the single best heal in the game and rshams have plenty of utility to be 2 stacked or even 5 stacked. Raid healing is super easy on rsham and chain heal auto targets so you literally just spam it and gg. Dungeon healing is also easier on rsham because earth shield is passively popping off and chain heal is so good. Hpaly has higher hps potential when you start pumping glyphed holy lights (heroic icc has a lot of encounters that will require crazy holy light spam) and they can manage tank healing most efficiently due to beacon, but a skilled rsham can manage it in the absence of hpaly. Raid healing is really fun on rsham mostly because chain heal is so good, and its more engaging to play than hpaly where you're just spamming a boring single target spell. But spamming and not running out of mana is also fun. But managing your mana on rsham and watching chain heal take different paths each time you use it and seeing the green numbers everywhere is also extremely fun. Pick what you have fun on because they're both so good.
Rolled a holy paladin this go around because I know people will be biased, but I had top HPS in the world on Firefighter at one point as a holy priest in original Wrath. That class was so much fun and so strong if you played it well.
having 5 stars on "stacking" for holy paladin and only 1 star for rdruid/rsham is just wrong imo. I remember both having either 2 resto shams or 2 resto druids in 25 man roster and it was very good for aoe dmg heavy encounters... much better than bringing 2x holy paladin for that.
Not having enough AoE healers you're going to have a bad time. Disc priests and holy pala are great for focused tank heals but really can't deal with constant raid damage. Chain heal, prayer/circle heal and rolling hots can keep the raid rolling without the tank healers panicking and dropping the tank.
Maining resto shaman. Could say that I’m very good at it. To be honest, I’m there at the top of meters beating some paladins and disc priests easily. 😊
I think Resto Druid Revivalist is mega slept on. This buff is game changing for some DPS specs, especially DK's and Feral/Rogue. Depending on your comp, double Druid could be strong for more uptime if there are a lot of these specs in your raid.
Yeah sadly i think your wrong it only really rogues/ferals that benefit from it in any meaningful way. Warriors are drowning in rage this expac and more runic power sure is a dps boost but a rather low one
not sure about that, but sometimes u want to have 2x rdruid or 2x rsham for aoe heavy fights... that''s why I don't agree with hpal having 5/5 on stacking, and rdruid/rsham only 1/5... WillE was in this one just wrong imo.
druids are best tank healers for sure. and good buffs. also boomkin is insane too . hurricane debuff is one of the strongest debbufs in the game. 20% attack speed. just like impoved thunder clap from warriior. iu combine these 2 debufss and u dont even need to heal :D. enemy mob attack speed will reduce for up to 200%
@@oskardanigsecher9906 Playing a Resto Druid with 2 high parsing DKs, (Frost and Unholy), I can absolutely state that Revitalise is very sought after, especially for Frost.
Pally is great, that is for sure but it gets too much credit from judgment of light. Don't forget that any paladin can do the judgment and there must be one placed in any raid, it is more of a passive buff for everyone. The real healing output of the paladin is its healing without the judgment. When you take this into account and also the fact that its aoe healing is bit weak, holy paladin can be considered great, but maybe more on par with the other specs. In terms of complexity again, the base gameplay might be simple, but the value of any paladin is the many assist spells like hands, raid sac and such, and holy paladin has to use all of them on top of spam healing, which is not the simplest.
Im pretty sure we cleared ulduar and ICC in my old guilds back in the day with 2 resto druids. I don't think stacking the "wrong" healers is a big deal outside of a couple hard modes (you really need a lot of poison cleanse on 1-light)
ohh wotlk ...... sweet times i spent hundreds of hours in wotlk on my holy pala..... it was a beast. The numbers that it could pull of was straight up nuts :D. All i had to do to get to any pug I fancied running was just write to the dude organizing it that i am holy pala and add in the achie from LK kill and i was in ...... regardless of what raid I was asking for, being holy pala that was able to kill LK was all what i needed :D :D :D.
I've been maining holy paladin since the end of wrath, and when classic came out I told myself I wasn't going to play paladins because I've been doing it for well over a decade in retail. But man, all paladin specs are insanely good in wrath x.x
Oh god, ever much so, yes. I remember my guild + some out-of-guild friends doing trial of the crusader 20 man for the first time. I, as an inexperienced heladin, was brought along as an off/tank heal It was smooth sailing until Anub'arak, who had wiped nearly the whole raid as he dropped to
Back in original Wrath, a friend asked me to go Gnome 'Lock during Wrath and I laughed my ass off. He said "look, I wanna try Holy Paly and I think we can do some serious shit together". So... we gave it a whirl. OMFG, we obliterated mobs as we leveled and there were very few open world PvP fights we lost (neither of us cared much about BGs). As a Demo 'Lock paired with a Holy Paladin, it seemed pretty damn contrary to the rules of the universe but man, did we have a good time. As we approached level 50, we saw the writing on the wall, I was itchy to get back to Horde and he wanted to Raid but we're still good close friends. Fun times.
WotLK more or less managed to make it not worth it to stack any healer at all. I don't think you want your healers to be only even holy palas, much less the others. The various specs complement each other.
depends on fight.. sometimes u want to have 2 hpalies.. sometimes u want to have 2 rshams or rdruids on aoe heavy fights... some groups even brought holy priest as 5th healer for guardian spirit and great instant aoe healing with mending and circle of healing on move (while in the Terenas phase on heroic LK) That's why I don't agree with hpal having 5/5 on stacking, and rdruid/rsham only 1/5... WillE was in this one just wrong imo.
I just want to say I have been so Indecisive about healing specs. And you sir just convinced me to go holy pally! Thank you so much for all the info! All though I don’t get much time to play atm. I am an d veteran to the game. So I will definitely be lvling as holy xd
Holy pally is nooot thatt special. This youtuber just has crush on paladins every video, because that is probably only class he actually understands R druid or r shaman can be ver fun to olay
My Priest's WotLK healing spec will be 38H/33D, since full Holy or Discipline doesn't do it for me personally. I did a Restoration Shaman main in TBC, but totems are an annoying/clunky class mechanic to deal with IMO, even with some improvements in WotLK. Also not a fan of the class/play feel of Paladins, or being stuck in a goofy Tree Form for Druids.
Sad, that you did not give the restodruid more love. You showed different spells and glyphs for other healers. Strength and weaknesses, but for resto you basically said "yep, middle of the pack cause some hots roll" There will be fights, where restodruid will top the meters, as long as there will be dmg. I am quite sure, that if you run with less healers, the Druid will be better and better. I can imagine fights like Mimiron will be insane for restodruids. Right now we raid with 2-3 Healers in Sunwell and the numbers I put out are so insane and no other healer could have the same output. You did not talk about Wild growth, nourish and the different kind of ways you can go with your talents, so that you can be either be a really really good tankhealer, as in TBC, or go for more hots on the raid and focus more on blanketing. I dont want to be annoying and complain a lot. But i was just dissapointed, how you just tossed everything the restodruid does aside and just gave it "middle of the pack" without even saying what spells the restodruid uses.
I'm a HPala main and I wholeheartedly agree. I mained HPala back in Wrath and my backup heal alt was a RDruid. HPala is better overall, but the way WillE dismisses RDruid was a bit of a surprise tbh. RDruid is most certainly very strong in both PvE and PvP imo. Nourish and WG were a game changer and just made RDruid a lot better. At my peak during ICC I could contend with the best HPala's in the server as well. Idk how or why WillE just dismissed the class like that but I do hope he makes another update on his rankings some time during Wrath.
In actual vanilla i ran a priest, in tbc i ran a resto shaman and both were a blast.. i ran a feral druid and ret paladin in cata era and now on a free PR i decided to run classes I never max leveled like mage, lock, hunter . Ive had a legit warrior in tbc and cata but loved em. Played a little on a cata PR and love priest still but i kinda wana checkout druid or paladin and roll solely healing specs . Im leaning towards druid. Most of my "wow career" I ran as dps and now what I like is the ying and yang of it via tanking and healing. I semi rolled paladin and tanked 5 mans but in tbc levelling at 62 i went prot and loved it. Similar to disc in cata and loved it. On this PR. It's 7x exp so levelling will be fast so I have some options and want to roll a straight out healer since I have 3 ranged DPS (lock, hunter mage) and tank with my 65 warrior but now im going for the trifecta for healer. I have found out that I like tanking or healing a lot better than DPS when running five-man groups I don't plan to endgame but to heal 5 mans and some world pvp and BGs.. i want flexibility
From what I remember, stacking in the video seems kinda upside down. In 25 man raid you would get 1 disc for shield spam, 1 hpala for tank and a bit of aoe heal(mainly for tank healing since monster single target), and then you would get 2 of the aoe healers ( mainly shaman since sham is better for aoe than druid). So the average comp was 1disc 1 hpala 1 rdruid and 2 rsham. for 6 healers you would get a second rdruid or even 3rd rsham.
I was able to get full icc25 heroic gear at the age of 14, so its not like this game was hard. Play whatever class or spec you think is fun. The only thing you need to min/max for is speed running raids or arena teams
Thank you for a great video (as ever)! I'm sorry if I missed this, but does Power Word: Shield now allow warrior and bear tanks to get rage from being attacked?
No one beats holy in numbers if you know them well. I get whispers from people to ask me if they can add me lol. But in order to achieve that I have 3week auras just for the spec.
After few weeks of playing rshammy n clearing all content every reset, if your raid has a hpally+disc Priest your healing job as any other healer changes a lot since tanks will never dies and a lot of burst damage is mitigated, so I tend to be able to conserve a lot of mana and use a lot more lesser healing waves/riptides instead of chain healing. There’s still phases where you gata spa, chainheal like a mad lad, but you definitely can keep your overheating to a minimum just be playing smart with target heals. My raid has hpally, 2 rdruids n me rshammy so a lot of the time im focusing on bursted targets that aren’t the tanks and letting the dots n shields keep the raid healthy, rdruids pop the hell off with heals but a lot of the time they get kinda briefed by over zealous heals during light damage phases. It’s really just 3 drakes that can be difficult with all the movement and people getting hit with walls while having to balance the Agro on the adds that spawn that’s difficult rn but if no one gets hit by walls or blasted by the drakes breath attack it’s smooth
One thing to probably mention is that circle of healing does get a cooldown (6s) in wrath, so it is not spamable. This is kind of a big hit to holy priest. The rest of the healers are all great, but I would unfortunately put holy priest just a peg underneath the rest :(
Its also changed to a smart heal instead of group wide so not spammable but also usually getting full value every cast as it will always hit the 5 people who are actually in range. So its not that bad of a nerf
While circle of healing does get a cooldown, holy receives a few changes in other ways to compensate which imo makes the spec really interesting to play. I've gotta say, it never really felt like a nerf in Wrath the first time around, more just a change in the playstyle. We can now cast prayer of healing on groups other than our own, and the new talent Serendipity is one of my favourite things in the entire game - now when you cast flash or binding heal, you get a stacking haste buff on your next prayer of healing. It makes everything just *flow* so nicely and the synergy of all your spells feels amazing. There's nothing quite like landing a well timed serendipity prayer of healing + circle of healing bomb on the raid. Prayer of mending also remains incredibly strong and perhaps is even stronger in Wrath. It also has a shorter cooldown than it did in TBC via a talent, and with circle of healing being a smart heal that heals 6 people (with glyph) now, it's still incredibly strong.
@@domiasmoth Not quite - prayer of healing remains a group based heal that specifically heals the target's group members. It didn't become a smart heal until Legion.
Circle of healing is probably the best healing spell even with the short cd, too bad that the only other good thing holy has is prayer of mending. There might be some hidden potential in the bubble 60% movement speed talent tho.
In tbc my druid was putting up 94 parses with average bt gear... on most fights i was between our raids two holy priests... I think people under rate the throughput that resto has.
You do understand how parses work, right? You might have a 99 parse and still perform worse than the other classes with a 60 parse. With parses, you are only being compared to other players of the same class and spec, not to any other class.
@@domiasmoth in TBC start people said that druids would be the 2nd worst healer. And I was competitive with holy priests.... (which were considered the best) IDK, people got that one really wrong, I feel the same error is probably being made again.
I was kind of hoping this would go over the differences between healing in Wrath compared to retail. I have been missing out on Classic thus far and would like to properly get into it but don't really know what I am doing.
@@GarionDAdkins ??? I got worn down and eventually caved into playing Wrath Warmane on Icecrown by a then friend a few years ago. The community was anything but welcoming and forgiving, lol. They were toxic as all hell.
@@Ahhhmotherland Because back then Wrath was retail or you played on a privat server, which is a game of luck. Until now I met only nice people, there are probably some idiots but overall the community is amazing right now
@@Ahhhmotherland yeah, agreed with Wcc above. Private servers are toxic. And yeah, there are some toxic people floating around the Classic servers, but there are a ton of genuinely nice and fun people playing. Lots of us middle-to-old people who are playing this for the first time without worry about school issues...if somewhat distracted by our families!
Hearing you talk about rsham is hilarious. Hpal/rsham/disc are the top tier heals, you can literally only run them and it's perfectly fine. Where do you get your information?
He rated them the top healers judging by his initial strength and scaling scores. And he's not wrong, rshaman is really good, but kinda later when you get a lot of haste.
I was a healer trough TBCC, doing pretty well on all metrics that are available. I really enjoyed the mechanics of downranking and managing your mana, as you had your rotation similar to dps and had to divert to higher ranks when necessary, always keeping your mana in mind. It gave the role nuance and depth After the prepatch, basically all healer classes have turned into mindless spambots, with disci being the worst offender. You spam one single button. For the whole freaking fight. You don't do anything else, as any other healing spell is a hps loss. It's unbelievably braindead. Sorry, if you enjoy it, but let's see how much fun you have doing that for a whole year of weekly raiding Other healer classes aren't better tho. You spam your (smart) cd heals (CoH, Wild Growth, PoM, Riptide) on cooldown and fill the gaps with other spam heal spells available to your class. There is almost no decision making in it Perhaps WotLk is not the expansion for me
finally someone said it. tbc was amazing from a healing perspective and everything has turned into a mindless 1-2 button spam without having to worry about mana. wrath healing is not fun at all.. real healers know this stuff. glad im not the only one that thinks this way about it.
2 disc priests for 25man raids wasn't a horrible idea honestly. I recall we just used to assign them to different groups and it works out pretty nicely.
@@domiasmoth it's absolutely not required and pretty much a wasted healer slot. You can blanket 15-20 with shields as a good disc priest. Let the rest of your healers take care of the rest.
Nah it's a wasted slot. You'd be better off with one disc one holy priest in 25 man if you had to. 2 disc priest makes no sense because of the debuff you get after PWS wears off.
its a scale from 'good to amazing' not 'dogshit to amazing', this is a classic wow tierlist and the average wow player doesnt have the critical thinking skills to beyond '1/5 rating bad class', if he were to rate a class anything lower than a 3 people would say 'im not playing that its dogshit', even rating shaman a 3/5 on early is probably gonna cause some people to play other stuff because '3/5 this class is literal mid' you can see it with video game reviews too, anything below a 7 is 'dogshit game' so any score below that loses it's meaning, they all mean 'dogshit', which compresses how 'good' the game is into the 7+ bracket, devaluing what eg a 9/10 actually means, feels like almost everything is a 9/10 nowadays but not in a 'theyre all good' way, just a 'the score means nothing anymore' way
druid healers as decent in wrath!? you kidding me...I remember them being one of the better ones in wrath actually...Once you get your ICC gear they spike up like craaazy
Don't listen to this idiot, he probably is trash in playing resto druid so he assume its bad or he only thinks of parsing on easy fights that doesn't require much raid healing as a measurement of healing strengths. Druids are literally the best healers when Ulduar hit.
holy priest is my favourite healing spec in wotlk.. if played well u don't really fall behind and sometimes u are #1 in healing in AoE dmg encounters (altho Ulduar will be the hardest challenge as u don't have the best gear options there) I will definitely lvl it as my first healer :P
I don't know why almost no one mentions hymn of hope for holy priests. Not only does it boost base mana, it can intelligently give so much mana to several people.
In an ideal 25 man raid you'd have two Holy Paladins, a Disc Priest, two Resto Druids and two Resto Shaman (in my view). One of each of the Druids and Shaman should have a good DPS off-spec for when you simply don't need seven healers. It feels bad leaving out the Holy Priest, but its simply not needed and its off-spec (Shadow) isn't great at being stacked in my opinion and you should always have a dedicated Shadow Priest. But base it off the quality of players in the guild - if you have a great Holy Priest you can switch out a Shaman (not the Druid in my opinion - double tree feels great to have).
You don't need 7 healers in a raid group, that's insane. Having two holy paladins is unnecessary also. I agree with either 2 druids or resto shamans later on though. If you need more than 5 healers for any fight other than Sindy 25 HC or Halion 25 HC then your healers suck.
Dude.... Did you rank resto druid complexity the same as holy paladin? You know the one where you said that you need to know the fights and damage patterns to pre-hot optimally, vs a 2 button passive healing multi OS button trash class. I dont.... just.... how.... I didnt think this video was very good but my god you really went above and beyond to make this one as subjective as possible. At least I can confidently say that's the exception and not the norm for your content.
How about a hybrid class? With dos and heal u can have a cake and eat it. Want melee? Go pal Druid Sham, want ranged? Go priest Sham druid. Dual spec ftw
That’s what I did! Was a healer for a long time! Went dps as my main! This time! And am loving it! But I am looking to healer as my second! Just not sure what one I want! Hpala! Is out the question! Thinking either priest or Druid! Idk tho!😂😭
@@einarsmith7688sadly I fizzled out at like lv 76 on my lock and stopped. priest was fun during classic and BC. Looks fun for wrath too. I did druid, hpala, sham heals back in original, and they were really enjoyable for that insta que times lol, ah the good simple times.
I really appreciate your effort but u are missing out so much info, it hurts - especially considering you chose to come forward and educate the community on this topic - or are you only fishing views cause it's popular?
I think you are a bit inconsistent with what you are talking about, and how many stars you give With Disc u don't want to stack them because they are in each others way...1 star...understandable You don't wanna stack restro schamy because they don't add anything beyond the first, also 1 Star so how is having no additional benefit...and actually hurting the performance of your healers....the same grade? Don't get me wrong, i really like the series, i just don't necessarly agree with the marks of each class, wich is prolly just personal preference
couldnt 2 shamans coordinate their totems to not overlap as much, ie one uses manaspring and one uses healing spring? or one uses wrath of air and one uses windfury? yeh some buffs are covered by other classes (like windfury is covered by frost dk) but i dont really see how it's as bad as 'we have 2 disc, and one used shield on the tank so now the other cant actually do anything to that tank cos of weakened soul' also more chainheals pingponging around sounds like it can only be a positive since it chains smartly right? and twice as much riptides means one for the MT one for the OT? though i guess having 2 pain suppressions would be kinda nice too
I remember in original WotLK, holy palas were always pushed into the tank healer slot with some raid leads even explicitly telling you to put you beacon on the main tank and exclusively spamming heals on the off tank or vice versa. Really, reeeeeally boring stuff but so much fun if the raid lead just let you do your thing instead.
That's a bad raid leader. But the game has evolved since then. Yeah you beacon the main tank but then you heal the raid as needed. If it happens to be the OT then so be it.
@@bartok1378 Almost all raid leaders I encountered did it back then. In the later game I got into a better guild and they were the first ones who didn't play like that.
@@goldibollocks yeah that's because all people looked at back in the day was healing meters without considering overhealing. Absorbs and healing is the right meter to follow on Skada because it already subtracts overhealing. All these new videos are still under the impression that healing meters are.kibg but they aren't
@@bartok1378 exactly! Everybody was using Recount back then and only looked at healing done. Plus, Recount didn't count shields and absorbs, so disc priests always looked like they didn't do much at all. In that last guild I was in, I first encountered Skada and suddenly the disc priests were #1 on the meters.
Kinda disappointed how you presented resto druid compared to other healers, much less information and discussion about some amazing utility they offer on top of the variety of ways in which they can be played. Feel like you have little to no experience with the class / role and just glossed over it and threw it further down on the list than it deserved to be
idk man. i haven't seen a whole lot of Hpallys that can out heal me or the disc priest in our guild. they don't get a chance to heal much what with the bubble and hots. im sure they have the most healing capability but with other good heals they dont get a chance to shine much.
Because ideally your tanks shouldn't die to begin with. There are some niche scenarios where massive predictable damage is coming the tanks way and you can preemptively cast it to make sure they live. However, that should almost never be necessary if the raid plays well enough. In most cases where it matters, DPS and Healers will either insta die from a mechanic or live anyways so there is no use for GS there either. If a DPS over aggros in a trash mob fight and you see him drop low, yeah sure GS can be nice but who cares if someone dies outside of a boss fight. Overall GS spirit sounds great in theory but just isn't necessary or really hard to land properly for a priest outside of a predictable mechanic.
Only thing I'm hesitant about in this video holy pally stacking? Holy plays nitche is is best tank heal becan one take heal other ez but I wouldn't consider them a "raid" healer yes they can but compared to shammys druids and holy preist that all raid heal so much easier ehhh idk
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I remember healing as a resto shaman way back when. I had just got into raiding for the first time in ICC. I didn't want to heal but they convinced me to try it. I fell in love. ICC gear is so good that I just machine gunned Chain Heals everywhere without really any worry about mana. I also remember my GM was a holy paladin and she died immediately to Marrowgar's flames and I solo healed the 10m fight. We killed him JUST as I ran out of mana.
Wotlk is a great expansion for healers, you can really play any of the specs and as long as you are a good healer it will work. From my experience, all the "'weaker" specs really are not that much weaker and you can easily overcome their limitations by using all of their spells/kit, or being good on mana management and anticipation.
Yeah, the real difference is just a number on a heal meter (does it matter if noone dies?) and chugging mana pots. That said the "weaker" healers are definitelly suplementary, not the core.
RUclipsrs thing. every video is the same thing on repeat. they are content creators first, not gamers and u can tell
Unless you play Priest. Groups will demand you place Disc and kick you for showing up with a holy spec.
@@nevoyu Holy priest is so underrated tho. insane heals, insane utility, movement speed on shield, can cleanse diseases and poisons aka slows etc also they have one of the best defensive talents in the game Blessed Ressilence. they heals are insanely good. they bring so much value to the team. you really feel like Jesus
@@nevoyu Holy is the best aoe healer of the expansion.
Hallion, Lana, Syndragosa, Lich King fights is where holy shines.
If you’re ok but still get kicked - you’re playing with wrong people. Find a guild.
The best healer is the one you want to play.
Agreed, healers in wrath will be the tanks of tbc/classic, we are the rare ones now
I wanna play the best
@@sheesh3028 you forget what game you're playing, BE the best healer, dont fotm sperg and pick whats the most powerful, pallies are the strongest but who cares, healing can be very boring at times, you need to pick a healer whos gameplay appeals to you, feel free to do what all zoomers do, and min max to the point where you have zero fun and burn out and quit the game because you skipped all the fun content.
Imma go and spam lfg as a healer, using bandages
No pretty sure its still holy paladin
Thank you for dropping these videos! I can tell a lot of work went into these, and I really appreciate it
Basically as a disc priest I macroed my shield to Mouse 6 and it automatically spams casts while I switch targets throughout the raid, with the mandatory Prayer of Mending on the maintank at every cooldown.
#1 healer in every encounter with very good mana control if properly communicating with shamans' Mana Tide and shadowpriests' Hymn of Hope without necessarily relying on Innervates.
Absorbs are truly meta in Wrath because they soak most of raid damage taken every 30 seconds, which is (in most fights) around 10k-20k on each player(except tanks).
Two shields per ~50-60 seconds count for a lot of damage mitigation and HoTs can cover most of the rest, which overall allows other healers to focus more on keeping the tanks in good health.
The reason priests can be #1 on healing meters is that they mitigate the damage instead of heal it, so other healers don't get much other than snipes or HoT ticks.
Thanks for coming to my 6 am Ted Talk, goodnight.
can you provide actual macro down below? I am interested in trying it out for myself :)
I recommend taking a look at the addon called Clique. It lets you assign spells to mouseover clicks.
e.g. Right-click on someone's raid frame to cast shield on that person without changing your current target. Shift right-click to cast renew on them, mouse button 4 to cast dispel on them, etc. To shield your raid, you just go down the line right-clicking all the frames.
@@stefankristensen4643 The macro is basically assigning the hotkey for your shield to one of your mouse buttons and have the macro be constantly casting.
@@nathanberrigan9839 I am a little bit oldschool and mouseovers never improved my gameplay and only caused me confusion tbh.
Better title for this video:
"HEALERS in Wrath Classic - They're Gigachads"
I really enjoy your videos, thorough and refreshing from a long-time wrath players. This one I have a little bit of an issue with- and it is that we missed a huge concept on healing throughput capabilities.
For some credibility here, I have been a guild and raid leader through wrath and have led my team to LK kills on both 10m and 25m. During MOP, legion, and wod I exclusively played wotlk private servers- it’s my favorite expac by far. I also have been 2400 on both resto sham and holy paladin and extensively raided with both.
My gripe with this video is there is no talk of tank vs raid healing. Disc/Holy paladins have amazing single target throughput- however if a lethal raid wide damage mechanic happens, they fall behind. They cannot catch up the entire raid like a resto druid, resto sham, or even the low value holy priest can. Disc can get ahead of the damage as long as the spikes are infrequent, not a guarantee.
Do disc/holy pal have the best throughput in the game? Of course, however they can’t split up this healing amongst many targets and so it just does not fit a lot of the fight mechanics. I think Resto sham/resto druid did not get enough rating in this regard.
Resto sham is the only healer that can both tank heal with strong direct heals and raid heal with chain/riptides- they are invaluable to a raid team since they can pick take over and role due to deaths/no show/fight demands. For this I would add 1-2 stars to complexity, they are not a mindless chain heal spam anymore. They can easily outheal a holy/disc on most cleave heal fights. I would also put them at 5 stars for pvp as well, heroism + ranged kick + grounding is outstanding for a healer. They counter any spell caster comp, and there are many. Late game resto sham most players could not even kill through earth shield and the shammy could afk. Ghost wolf + slow totem is an outstanding way to deal with any melee- late game they really don't have a counter except maybe ret+ms. Not to mention cleansing totem for rogues/dks and tremor for warlocks, amazing utility/kit. In 3s the only other healer that can compete is hpal.
Resto druid has the best raid wide throughput with wild growth, additionally their kit fits so well in many wrath mechanics. Think of saurfangs mark, or any intense dot mechanics- a couple life blooms and the healers don’t have to worry about it anymore. A holy pally or disc would constantly have to put energy into that target, where the druid does a couple globals and done. They also have an outstanding scale with haste and spell power- probably the most dramatic scaling on a healer class in wrath. For this I would give them 5 stars on scaling. In 25m, having 2-3 rdruids is not terrible either and another star for stacking would be my opinion there.
One final notes is that disc should be a 3 max for pvp. Amazing for 2s, mana burns are great but they really don’t have a lot of comps for 3s. RMP is their only fit, which is a strong comp until tsg/phd pops off and when that happens they absolutely destroy the priest. Any melee comp, especially dks/wars will completely disable a disc priest and there is literally nothing the disc can do to get away; and there are a lottt of dks/wars. I would give disc a 2 in 3s and a 4/5 in 2s.
Paladins really do not have a lot of healing buttons, their biggest gripe is that they are kind of boring if you play them a lot. I would do a 1 or 2 stars for complexity.
Again great video overall- loved the overview!
4:27 Horse be like, "Boo hoo. Where's my bubble?"
Basically healers are pretty balanced except pally being OP and disc filling a unique one of niche
Yep, old game so I guess we all know this in advance. However be prepared to be declined from pugs if a Holy Paladin rolls up the same way everyone got ditched as soon as a resto Shaman arrived in TBC if the pug had less than 5 shammies total :P
he has no idea what he is talking about, Resto shaman/rdruid/hpala are the three strongest healers pvp/pve, disc priest actually takes a massive back seat and is difficult to play/be good with.
Holy is still the meta in 90% Of wrath pve content, legit clueless morons, might want to check with people who been playing pservers for 15+ years lol
@@styxstyxstyx666numberofcom7 its so weird seeing 99% of people saying one thing and then people like you adamant its the other
@@styxstyxstyx666numberofcom7 Yeah thats what I remember as well. Disc priest excels when you're going into bosses undergeared (traditionally) and gets most of its value out of the additional buffer via the bubble.
I remember rDruids and rShamans were highly sought after back then.
@@styxstyxstyx666numberofcom7 Holy Pala right?
My first experience with progression raiding was in Wrath. I was on really late because of my job. A good guild grabbed me as a pug on my holy paladin. He said stand here and put a marker down. My job was spam holy light on the tank doing Sartharion.
Pretty much the same. I was young and nervous doing 25man raids, but being holy paladin was as easy as putting beacon on off tank, while healing main tank. That's why Valithria was my favorite boss, as I was doing something more than usual.
In addition, haven't seen the need for hpals, I was the only one during our wraith raiding. Most paladins in a guild were retri or prot like my father at that time.
@@modestpixel4686 well you could also do some challenges like solo heal icc25hc some bosses, or 2 heal whole ICC 25hc with LoD (lk25hc achiev)with Rshaman only, solo heal Bane(lk10hc achiev) etc. There is definitely more into Hpala than standing and casting HL on tanks 24/7.
@@vitmenn I'm not looking for challenge, just brushing dust from old memories.
Honestly, as long as you're playing a healer you won't have any problems with finding a guild lol. Anyone who's feeling averse to trying a "less viable" spec really shouldn't be worried.
Nearly all of Holy Paladins utility buttons get better too, Freedom/BoP/Sacrifice no longer wipe out blessings, Lay on Hands no longer wipes out your mana pool, Salvation doesn't eat a mandatory blessing slot any more, Judgements all get better, Auras apply to the entire raid, Divine Protection becomes useful, Hammer of Judgement gets a built-in interrupt, Seal of Wisdom becomes a reliable way to build mana, so many little buffs in addition to the new stuff
Almost gets boring being so good
Remember healers, we're the commodity now. We have tanks up to our ears with death knights being a thing
Yet still see so many groups needing tanks
most DKs will refuse to tank. always how it's been.
Thats some strong copium.
Holy pals being strong as fuck as they are, the healer amount has increased aswell.
We got 12 total of dks, thats dps + tank, signed up to our wotlk roster.
And only in holy specc ,theres 10 paladins.
Total theres like 18.
Tanking shortage is not due to lack of classes, it's due to player personalities
@@crimsonking6246 true, people don't want to play tanks cuz it gives them more responsibilities compared to dps and heals.
Great breakdown here.
Druid's are more desired than holy priests and resto shamans. They are fantastic at raid healing and have massive throughput. Revitalise talent is excellent. They have 7 heals to choose from for different situations. And can also tank heal quite well with healing touch and nourish. They also have massive sustain. Not as efficient as holy pallies, but they are only behind by a whisker.
I agree, If I was going to take 3 healers to a raid, it would be 1Hpal, 1 Disc, and a resto druid
You would replace one of those for a shaman, if there's no other shaman in the raid.
We did naxx 25 with 2 druids putting out raidheal like crazy
While revitalize and tree form buff are great and totally love resto druids hots mechanics(would always take one in 25 mans)it still remains a spec that does a lot of overheal, no way resto druid Is going to be more desired than resto sham(especially in 10mans), so put down the copium, chain heal Is the most efficient healing spell in the game by a mile, can tank heal comfortably as well and can outsnipe little damage on raid consistently(especially with high amounts of haste, stat that they are going to value way more than druids), take totems/heroism/hex and armor buff on healing crits
Just remember to not use glyph with haste scaling on rejuv in 25 raids.
I finally broke down and started a healer for the first time since original tbc. And I’m leveling a resto shaman currently lvl 72 and I’m enjoying it quite a bit. Heirlooms and this xp buff on an av weekend are suuuuper nice lol
For parsing (and in general if you dont need more/better specific healing) you only want to bring resto druids and 1 disc priest, as the revitalize stacks and provides a lot of dps
100%
Wrong!
Disc priest for life here! Did it back then and I’m doing it this time haha
I learned not believe all the guides from you tube because of this video. It's the person that makes the class work, not the class itself.
Love your guides
I casually watch your videos from time to time. But this one throws the relevance of all the rest into question.
Going into my favorite expansion as a resto shaman. I will work my a** off just to prove it can rival any other healer.
Same bro
@@dusiolek6 dito
Resto shaman most fun and stronger than people think
Good luck!!
It totally can, besides disc priest own niche you can totally fuck them all, easy and efficient spec
I mained a resto shammy during wotlk and I can assure you, spamming chain heal was a surefire way to running oom fast, it was the hallmark of the noob resto in my eyes.
Resto shammies should be spamming lesser healing wave and healing wave instead. LHW is a much quicker and mana efficient cast, and with enough crit you could pump out big heals that cleaved through Ancestral Awakening.
Druids should really get a bump for the stacking category.
Of Shaman, hpriest and druid; the druid bringing an additional battle res, regenerating other power sources and innervate. It does seem just a single star more desirable than the others.
Shaman's most powerful abilities are less likely to be beneficial when there are more than one. Their improved mana spring is simply outclassed by holy paladin BoW.
Priest are highly adaptable, and despite paladin and all other specs of priest being able to do so, they are very effective magic dispellers. The unique benifits of bringing a second hpreist are nearly non existant however particularly as in an organised comp this would be your third healing priest, meaning you are lacking in other areas of utility.
This xpac kinda started the whole 'bring the player not the class' kinda thing, where it doesn't matter really what you play, you'll clear the content. And that is a good thing. I don't like resto shaman healing, much prefer druid, so that's what I'll be playing.
WOTLK HYPE - lover ur vids wille
As someone who hardcore dual mained hpaly and rsham in original wrath (i played 14-16 hrs daily for the entire xpac) and currently playing classic wrath, Id say the two are very close and it comes down to player skill because both can pump mega heals. Chain heal is the single best heal in the game and rshams have plenty of utility to be 2 stacked or even 5 stacked. Raid healing is super easy on rsham and chain heal auto targets so you literally just spam it and gg. Dungeon healing is also easier on rsham because earth shield is passively popping off and chain heal is so good. Hpaly has higher hps potential when you start pumping glyphed holy lights (heroic icc has a lot of encounters that will require crazy holy light spam) and they can manage tank healing most efficiently due to beacon, but a skilled rsham can manage it in the absence of hpaly. Raid healing is really fun on rsham mostly because chain heal is so good, and its more engaging to play than hpaly where you're just spamming a boring single target spell. But spamming and not running out of mana is also fun. But managing your mana on rsham and watching chain heal take different paths each time you use it and seeing the green numbers everywhere is also extremely fun. Pick what you have fun on because they're both so good.
i had the idea that rshaman was kinda bad compared to h pala, interesting
maining a disc priest for wrath, i’m excited even though i’m a 2 button class lol
Rolled a holy paladin this go around because I know people will be biased, but I had top HPS in the world on Firefighter at one point as a holy priest in original Wrath. That class was so much fun and so strong if you played it well.
I BEEN WAITIN
having 5 stars on "stacking" for holy paladin and only 1 star for rdruid/rsham is just wrong imo. I remember both having either 2 resto shams or 2 resto druids in 25 man roster and it was very good for aoe dmg heavy encounters... much better than bringing 2x holy paladin for that.
Not having enough AoE healers you're going to have a bad time. Disc priests and holy pala are great for focused tank heals but really can't deal with constant raid damage. Chain heal, prayer/circle heal and rolling hots can keep the raid rolling without the tank healers panicking and dropping the tank.
@@cattysplat ans resto druid is one of the best tank healer
@@cattysplat Warcraftlogs disagree. Holy paladin solo heals almost all content comfortably
Maining resto shaman. Could say that I’m very good at it. To be honest, I’m there at the top of meters beating some paladins and disc priests easily. 😊
I think Resto Druid Revivalist is mega slept on. This buff is game changing for some DPS specs, especially DK's and Feral/Rogue. Depending on your comp, double Druid could be strong for more uptime if there are a lot of these specs in your raid.
Yeah sadly i think your wrong it only really rogues/ferals that benefit from it in any meaningful way. Warriors are drowning in rage this expac and more runic power sure is a dps boost but a rather low one
not sure about that, but sometimes u want to have 2x rdruid or 2x rsham for aoe heavy fights... that''s why I don't agree with hpal having 5/5 on stacking, and rdruid/rsham only 1/5... WillE was in this one just wrong imo.
druids are best tank healers for sure. and good buffs. also boomkin is insane too . hurricane debuff is one of the strongest debbufs in the game. 20% attack speed. just like impoved thunder clap from warriior. iu combine these 2 debufss and u dont even need to heal :D. enemy mob attack speed will reduce for up to 200%
@@oskardanigsecher9906 Playing a Resto Druid with 2 high parsing DKs, (Frost and Unholy), I can absolutely state that Revitalise is very sought after, especially for Frost.
Pally is great, that is for sure but it gets too much credit from judgment of light. Don't forget that any paladin can do the judgment and there must be one placed in any raid, it is more of a passive buff for everyone. The real healing output of the paladin is its healing without the judgment.
When you take this into account and also the fact that its aoe healing is bit weak, holy paladin can be considered great, but maybe more on par with the other specs.
In terms of complexity again, the base gameplay might be simple, but the value of any paladin is the many assist spells like hands, raid sac and such, and holy paladin has to use all of them on top of spam healing, which is not the simplest.
How did you made the enemy health bar (bame plates) to show a different color coresponding to each class?
I feel like earth shield and druid hots are not appreciated enough
Earth shield is huge now with the glyph and extra talents, mandatory for hard hitting fights
Im pretty sure we cleared ulduar and ICC in my old guilds back in the day with 2 resto druids. I don't think stacking the "wrong" healers is a big deal outside of a couple hard modes (you really need a lot of poison cleanse on 1-light)
@@Jaigarful if you're a healer, and you dont have down syndrome, you'll get your raid spots nearly anywhere lol, play the class you like
ohh wotlk ...... sweet times i spent hundreds of hours in wotlk on my holy pala..... it was a beast. The numbers that it could pull of was straight up nuts :D. All i had to do to get to any pug I fancied running was just write to the dude organizing it that i am holy pala and add in the achie from LK kill and i was in ...... regardless of what raid I was asking for, being holy pala that was able to kill LK was all what i needed :D :D :D.
I've been maining holy paladin since the end of wrath, and when classic came out I told myself I wasn't going to play paladins because I've been doing it for well over a decade in retail. But man, all paladin specs are insanely good in wrath x.x
Oh god, ever much so, yes.
I remember my guild + some out-of-guild friends doing trial of the crusader 20 man for the first time.
I, as an inexperienced heladin, was brought along as an off/tank heal
It was smooth sailing until Anub'arak, who had wiped nearly the whole raid as he dropped to
Back in original Wrath, a friend asked me to go Gnome 'Lock during Wrath and I laughed my ass off. He said "look, I wanna try Holy Paly and I think we can do some serious shit together". So... we gave it a whirl. OMFG, we obliterated mobs as we leveled and there were very few open world PvP fights we lost (neither of us cared much about BGs). As a Demo 'Lock paired with a Holy Paladin, it seemed pretty damn contrary to the rules of the universe but man, did we have a good time. As we approached level 50, we saw the writing on the wall, I was itchy to get back to Horde and he wanted to Raid but we're still good close friends. Fun times.
Guardian spirit is good if you have a paladin main tank, you get double death immunity since paladins have argent defender.
hyped for my holy pally
What addon you use for your heatlh and raid frames for healers?
WotLK more or less managed to make it not worth it to stack any healer at all. I don't think you want your healers to be only even holy palas, much less the others. The various specs complement each other.
2 pallys for two beacons on tanks, 1 of each of rest and that's your 25 man setup just like back in the day.
depends on fight.. sometimes u want to have 2 hpalies.. sometimes u want to have 2 rshams or rdruids on aoe heavy fights... some groups even brought holy priest as 5th healer for guardian spirit and great instant aoe healing with mending and circle of healing on move (while in the Terenas phase on heroic LK)
That's why I don't agree with hpal having 5/5 on stacking, and rdruid/rsham only 1/5... WillE was in this one just wrong imo.
Druid is also underrated. best tank healers for sure
Restodruids has the things that consume their heal over time for instant healing so. Great spec also.
Swiftmend
With the glyph you don’t even consume the HoTs. A must-have glyph imo. Super strong
I just want to say I have been so Indecisive about healing specs. And you sir just convinced me to go holy pally! Thank you so much for all the info! All though I don’t get much time to play atm. I am an d veteran to the game. So I will definitely be lvling as holy xd
Holy pally is nooot thatt special. This youtuber just has crush on paladins every video, because that is probably only class he actually understands R druid or r shaman can be ver fun to olay
My Priest's WotLK healing spec will be 38H/33D, since full Holy or Discipline doesn't do it for me personally. I did a Restoration Shaman main in TBC, but totems are an annoying/clunky class mechanic to deal with IMO, even with some improvements in WotLK. Also not a fan of the class/play feel of Paladins, or being stuck in a goofy Tree Form for Druids.
Don't let this video fool you, Druids are still monsters in arena.
I am holy pally what’s the best addons for the class I have played with a few but doesn’t seam fluid for the rotations
Sad, that you did not give the restodruid more love. You showed different spells and glyphs for other healers. Strength and weaknesses, but for resto you basically said "yep, middle of the pack cause some hots roll"
There will be fights, where restodruid will top the meters, as long as there will be dmg. I am quite sure, that if you run with less healers, the Druid will be better and better. I can imagine fights like Mimiron will be insane for restodruids. Right now we raid with 2-3 Healers in Sunwell and the numbers I put out are so insane and no other healer could have the same output.
You did not talk about Wild growth, nourish and the different kind of ways you can go with your talents, so that you can be either be a really really good tankhealer, as in TBC, or go for more hots on the raid and focus more on blanketing.
I dont want to be annoying and complain a lot. But i was just dissapointed, how you just tossed everything the restodruid does aside and just gave it "middle of the pack" without even saying what spells the restodruid uses.
I'm a HPala main and I wholeheartedly agree. I mained HPala back in Wrath and my backup heal alt was a RDruid. HPala is better overall, but the way WillE dismisses RDruid was a bit of a surprise tbh. RDruid is most certainly very strong in both PvE and PvP imo. Nourish and WG were a game changer and just made RDruid a lot better. At my peak during ICC I could contend with the best HPala's in the server as well. Idk how or why WillE just dismissed the class like that but I do hope he makes another update on his rankings some time during Wrath.
yeah he is content creator first, not gamer. he has crush on paladins for some reason. realistically u cant ttry all classes but still
Copium. Warcraftlogs clearly demonstrates what we all knew and that is holy paladin >>> other healers.
In actual vanilla i ran a priest, in tbc i ran a resto shaman and both were a blast.. i ran a feral druid and ret paladin in cata era and now on a free PR i decided to run classes I never max leveled like mage, lock, hunter . Ive had a legit warrior in tbc and cata but loved em.
Played a little on a cata PR and love priest still but i kinda wana checkout druid or paladin and roll solely healing specs . Im leaning towards druid.
Most of my "wow career" I ran as dps and now what I like is the ying and yang of it via tanking and healing. I semi rolled paladin and tanked 5 mans but in tbc levelling at 62 i went prot and loved it. Similar to disc in cata and loved it.
On this PR. It's 7x exp so levelling will be fast so I have some options and want to roll a straight out healer since I have 3 ranged DPS (lock, hunter mage) and tank with my 65 warrior but now im going for the trifecta for healer.
I have found out that I like tanking or healing a lot better than DPS when running five-man groups
I don't plan to endgame but to heal 5 mans and some world pvp and BGs.. i want flexibility
From what I remember, stacking in the video seems kinda upside down. In 25 man raid you would get 1 disc for shield spam, 1 hpala for tank and a bit of aoe heal(mainly for tank healing since monster single target), and then you would get 2 of the aoe healers ( mainly shaman since sham is better for aoe than druid). So the average comp was 1disc 1 hpala 1 rdruid and 2 rsham. for 6 healers you would get a second rdruid or even 3rd rsham.
for every fight where off tank is needed you want 2 holy paladins, they cross buff beacon and their healing output is ridiculous
I was able to get full icc25 heroic gear at the age of 14, so its not like this game was hard. Play whatever class or spec you think is fun. The only thing you need to min/max for is speed running raids or arena teams
Been a pally/sham main since legion and been playing them all of classic. Still going to play my sham as my healer. It's the player not the spec :)
Thank you for a great video (as ever)! I'm sorry if I missed this, but does Power Word: Shield now allow warrior and bear tanks to get rage from being attacked?
Used to solo heal a few fights in ICC hc back in the day, was restro shaman...
No one beats holy in numbers if you know them well. I get whispers from people to ask me if they can add me lol.
But in order to achieve that I have 3week auras just for the spec.
After few weeks of playing rshammy n clearing all content every reset, if your raid has a hpally+disc Priest your healing job as any other healer changes a lot since tanks will never dies and a lot of burst damage is mitigated, so I tend to be able to conserve a lot of mana and use a lot more lesser healing waves/riptides instead of chain healing. There’s still phases where you gata spa, chainheal like a mad lad, but you definitely can keep your overheating to a minimum just be playing smart with target heals. My raid has hpally, 2 rdruids n me rshammy so a lot of the time im focusing on bursted targets that aren’t the tanks and letting the dots n shields keep the raid healthy, rdruids pop the hell off with heals but a lot of the time they get kinda briefed by over zealous heals during light damage phases. It’s really just 3 drakes that can be difficult with all the movement and people getting hit with walls while having to balance the Agro on the adds that spawn that’s difficult rn but if no one gets hit by walls or blasted by the drakes breath attack it’s smooth
One thing to probably mention is that circle of healing does get a cooldown (6s) in wrath, so it is not spamable. This is kind of a big hit to holy priest. The rest of the healers are all great, but I would unfortunately put holy priest just a peg underneath the rest :(
Its also changed to a smart heal instead of group wide so not spammable but also usually getting full value every cast as it will always hit the 5 people who are actually in range. So its not that bad of a nerf
@@Ovrlol It's not even just circle that's a smart heal, it's all Hpriests aoe heals.
While circle of healing does get a cooldown, holy receives a few changes in other ways to compensate which imo makes the spec really interesting to play. I've gotta say, it never really felt like a nerf in Wrath the first time around, more just a change in the playstyle.
We can now cast prayer of healing on groups other than our own, and the new talent Serendipity is one of my favourite things in the entire game - now when you cast flash or binding heal, you get a stacking haste buff on your next prayer of healing. It makes everything just *flow* so nicely and the synergy of all your spells feels amazing. There's nothing quite like landing a well timed serendipity prayer of healing + circle of healing bomb on the raid.
Prayer of mending also remains incredibly strong and perhaps is even stronger in Wrath. It also has a shorter cooldown than it did in TBC via a talent, and with circle of healing being a smart heal that heals 6 people (with glyph) now, it's still incredibly strong.
@@domiasmoth Not quite - prayer of healing remains a group based heal that specifically heals the target's group members. It didn't become a smart heal until Legion.
Circle of healing is probably the best healing spell even with the short cd, too bad that the only other good thing holy has is prayer of mending. There might be some hidden potential in the bubble 60% movement speed talent tho.
Druids And Holy Priest = Raid healers
Shaman= Tank/Melee
Paladin= Tank
Disc = Bubble Gods that rule all.
Paladin = Just bring them.
a bit old school but yeah
pally= free the shimmy up for chain heals only
Sure, why not.
Besides paladin and disc obvious statement, you are wrong about the others
My 25man had 6 pallys 4 locks and 2 priests all rolling against each other for tier pieces, meanwhile I rolled against 1-2 people per shaman drop lol
In tbc my druid was putting up 94 parses with average bt gear... on most fights i was between our raids two holy priests... I think people under rate the throughput that resto has.
Rdruid is strong this youtuber is a idiot.
Your priests were just bad
You do understand how parses work, right? You might have a 99 parse and still perform worse than the other classes with a 60 parse. With parses, you are only being compared to other players of the same class and spec, not to any other class.
Wait what. You are comparing your ability to heal in a previous EXPANSION. Not even just a patch. LOL
@@domiasmoth in TBC start people said that druids would be the 2nd worst healer. And I was competitive with holy priests.... (which were considered the best) IDK, people got that one really wrong, I feel the same error is probably being made again.
I was kind of hoping this would go over the differences between healing in Wrath compared to retail. I have been missing out on Classic thus far and would like to properly get into it but don't really know what I am doing.
Come back to Wrath. The community is much more welcoming and forgiving than retail. You'll get the hang of it in no time!
In wrath if you are healing you are doing strictly that. No dpsing during downtimes.
@@GarionDAdkins ??? I got worn down and eventually caved into playing Wrath Warmane on Icecrown by a then friend a few years ago. The community was anything but welcoming and forgiving, lol. They were toxic as all hell.
@@Ahhhmotherland Because back then Wrath was retail or you played on a privat server, which is a game of luck. Until now I met only nice people, there are probably some idiots but overall the community is amazing right now
@@Ahhhmotherland yeah, agreed with Wcc above. Private servers are toxic. And yeah, there are some toxic people floating around the Classic servers, but there are a ton of genuinely nice and fun people playing. Lots of us middle-to-old people who are playing this for the first time without worry about school issues...if somewhat distracted by our families!
Hearing you talk about rsham is hilarious. Hpal/rsham/disc are the top tier heals, you can literally only run them and it's perfectly fine.
Where do you get your information?
He rated them the top healers judging by his initial strength and scaling scores. And he's not wrong, rshaman is really good, but kinda later when you get a lot of haste.
You can certainly stack raid healers like resto shaman and druids. You don't really need more than one holy pala though.
The scaling power of disc shields is not underlined hard enough. Bubbles are going to be straight up amazing
I was a healer trough TBCC, doing pretty well on all metrics that are available. I really enjoyed the mechanics of downranking and managing your mana, as you had your rotation similar to dps and had to divert to higher ranks when necessary, always keeping your mana in mind. It gave the role nuance and depth
After the prepatch, basically all healer classes have turned into mindless spambots, with disci being the worst offender. You spam one single button. For the whole freaking fight. You don't do anything else, as any other healing spell is a hps loss. It's unbelievably braindead. Sorry, if you enjoy it, but let's see how much fun you have doing that for a whole year of weekly raiding
Other healer classes aren't better tho. You spam your (smart) cd heals (CoH, Wild Growth, PoM, Riptide) on cooldown and fill the gaps with other spam heal spells available to your class. There is almost no decision making in it
Perhaps WotLk is not the expansion for me
finally someone said it. tbc was amazing from a healing perspective and everything has turned into a mindless 1-2 button spam without having to worry about mana. wrath healing is not fun at all.. real healers know this stuff. glad im not the only one that thinks this way about it.
so either run 4 heal squad or 5 heal and then decide who's the fifth 2nd hpal 2nd rsham or hpriest
Would like the tank summary even though i'm committed to bear tanking :)
This song covers what healing was like in Wrath - ruclips.net/video/-3a5ny_kvuE/видео.html&ab_channel=melodicgrace
Where are the DK Rune-Healer and the Pet-Heal-Hunter in this?
2 disc priests for 25man raids wasn't a horrible idea honestly. I recall we just used to assign them to different groups and it works out pretty nicely.
Yeah we did this particularly for LK, made phase 1 a breeze.
Pretty much required if you look at bubbling as you couldn't reliably blanket a full 25min with 1 disc. Whereas, it was easily maintainable with 2.
@@domiasmoth it's absolutely not required and pretty much a wasted healer slot. You can blanket 15-20 with shields as a good disc priest. Let the rest of your healers take care of the rest.
Nah it's a wasted slot. You'd be better off with one disc one holy priest in 25 man if you had to. 2 disc priest makes no sense because of the debuff you get after PWS wears off.
Yup 2 disc will be a big thing. Each disc cast 12-13 PWS and a penance/prayer of mending then you can start throwing another round of shields.
How have you rated literally ZERO specs below average for early and scaling? Do you know what average means?
its a scale from 'good to amazing' not 'dogshit to amazing', this is a classic wow tierlist and the average wow player doesnt have the critical thinking skills to beyond '1/5 rating bad class', if he were to rate a class anything lower than a 3 people would say 'im not playing that its dogshit', even rating shaman a 3/5 on early is probably gonna cause some people to play other stuff because '3/5 this class is literal mid'
you can see it with video game reviews too, anything below a 7 is 'dogshit game' so any score below that loses it's meaning, they all mean 'dogshit', which compresses how 'good' the game is into the 7+ bracket, devaluing what eg a 9/10 actually means, feels like almost everything is a 9/10 nowadays but not in a 'theyre all good' way, just a 'the score means nothing anymore' way
@@laggyjaggi8666 Yep. And Fallout76, a literally broken game, got a 5/10, which should be average.
druid healers as decent in wrath!? you kidding me...I remember them being one of the better ones in wrath actually...Once you get your ICC gear they spike up like craaazy
Don't listen to this idiot, he probably is trash in playing resto druid so he assume its bad or he only thinks of parsing on easy fights that doesn't require much raid healing as a measurement of healing strengths. Druids are literally the best healers when Ulduar hit.
XD I guess I will be one of the few Holy Priests on Fresh Skyfury
holy priest is my favourite healing spec in wotlk.. if played well u don't really fall behind and sometimes u are #1 in healing in AoE dmg encounters (altho Ulduar will be the hardest challenge as u don't have the best gear options there)
I will definitely lvl it as my first healer :P
check out my hybrid spec video
Kinda alienating 65% of the player base with only dirty alliance toons.
I don't know why almost no one mentions hymn of hope for holy priests. Not only does it boost base mana, it can intelligently give so much mana to several people.
In an ideal 25 man raid you'd have two Holy Paladins, a Disc Priest, two Resto Druids and two Resto Shaman (in my view). One of each of the Druids and Shaman should have a good DPS off-spec for when you simply don't need seven healers.
It feels bad leaving out the Holy Priest, but its simply not needed and its off-spec (Shadow) isn't great at being stacked in my opinion and you should always have a dedicated Shadow Priest. But base it off the quality of players in the guild - if you have a great Holy Priest you can switch out a Shaman (not the Druid in my opinion - double tree feels great to have).
You don't need 7 healers in a raid group, that's insane. Having two holy paladins is unnecessary also. I agree with either 2 druids or resto shamans later on though. If you need more than 5 healers for any fight other than Sindy 25 HC or Halion 25 HC then your healers suck.
I’m a noob, can u explain glyphs?
lol all the healers i see in wotlk grps are holy paladin ; it has begun.
Dude.... Did you rank resto druid complexity the same as holy paladin? You know the one where you said that you need to know the fights and damage patterns to pre-hot optimally, vs a 2 button passive healing multi OS button trash class.
I dont.... just.... how....
I didnt think this video was very good but my god you really went above and beyond to make this one as subjective as possible. At least I can confidently say that's the exception and not the norm for your content.
content creator first, not gamer
I play holy priest and im having a blast
After healing for decade, I might do dps first this time around, never find a group without my tank friend, but idk if I want to heal all over again.
How about a hybrid class? With dos and heal u can have a cake and eat it. Want melee? Go pal Druid Sham, want ranged? Go priest Sham druid.
Dual spec ftw
That’s what I did! Was a healer for a long time! Went dps as my main! This time! And am loving it! But I am looking to healer as my second! Just not sure what one I want! Hpala! Is out the question! Thinking either priest or Druid! Idk tho!😂😭
@@einarsmith7688sadly I fizzled out at like lv 76 on my lock and stopped. priest was fun during classic and BC. Looks fun for wrath too. I did druid, hpala, sham heals back in original, and they were really enjoyable for that insta que times lol, ah the good simple times.
I really appreciate your effort but u are missing out so much info, it hurts - especially considering you chose to come forward and educate the community on this topic - or are you only fishing views cause it's popular?
lol afcors. one day people will learn that youtube is just a huge business. and gamers like us don't get many views
Still can’t decide between shammy or Pally heals :(
My goal as a drood was to always out heal my pally in 10 mans. I got him a couple times and would gloat all damn day.
at the end you asked what role we'd like to see next but I'm pretty sure the only thing left is tank dog
Tree FTW
I think you are a bit inconsistent with what you are talking about, and how many stars you give
With Disc u don't want to stack them because they are in each others way...1 star...understandable
You don't wanna stack restro schamy because they don't add anything beyond the first, also 1 Star
so how is having no additional benefit...and actually hurting the performance of your healers....the same grade?
Don't get me wrong, i really like the series, i just don't necessarly agree with the marks of each class, wich is prolly just personal preference
couldnt 2 shamans coordinate their totems to not overlap as much, ie one uses manaspring and one uses healing spring? or one uses wrath of air and one uses windfury? yeh some buffs are covered by other classes (like windfury is covered by frost dk) but i dont really see how it's as bad as 'we have 2 disc, and one used shield on the tank so now the other cant actually do anything to that tank cos of weakened soul'
also more chainheals pingponging around sounds like it can only be a positive since it chains smartly right? and twice as much riptides means one for the MT one for the OT? though i guess having 2 pain suppressions would be kinda nice too
Stacking 1/5 shaman, why? Can you not raid with more than on shaman heal? I think u can…
I remember in original WotLK, holy palas were always pushed into the tank healer slot with some raid leads even explicitly telling you to put you beacon on the main tank and exclusively spamming heals on the off tank or vice versa.
Really, reeeeeally boring stuff but so much fun if the raid lead just let you do your thing instead.
That's a bad raid leader. But the game has evolved since then. Yeah you beacon the main tank but then you heal the raid as needed. If it happens to be the OT then so be it.
@@bartok1378 Almost all raid leaders I encountered did it back then. In the later game I got into a better guild and they were the first ones who didn't play like that.
@@goldibollocks yeah that's because all people looked at back in the day was healing meters without considering overhealing. Absorbs and healing is the right meter to follow on Skada because it already subtracts overhealing. All these new videos are still under the impression that healing meters are.kibg but they aren't
@@bartok1378 exactly! Everybody was using Recount back then and only looked at healing done. Plus, Recount didn't count shields and absorbs, so disc priests always looked like they didn't do much at all. In that last guild I was in, I first encountered Skada and suddenly the disc priests were #1 on the meters.
Hpally FTW!
Holy paladin is definitely not more complex than a 1 star.
Resto shaman is going to be strongest
Kinda disappointed how you presented resto druid compared to other healers, much less information and discussion about some amazing utility they offer on top of the variety of ways in which they can be played.
Feel like you have little to no experience with the class / role and just glossed over it and threw it further down on the list than it deserved to be
idk man. i haven't seen a whole lot of Hpallys that can out heal me or the disc priest in our guild. they don't get a chance to heal much what with the bubble and hots. im sure they have the most healing capability but with other good heals they dont get a chance to shine much.
just an another conformation that holly paladin its just a god
How is guardian spirit not necessary for raids?? The thing literally saves lives :D
Because ideally your tanks shouldn't die to begin with. There are some niche scenarios where massive predictable damage is coming the tanks way and you can preemptively cast it to make sure they live. However, that should almost never be necessary if the raid plays well enough. In most cases where it matters, DPS and Healers will either insta die from a mechanic or live anyways so there is no use for GS there either. If a DPS over aggros in a trash mob fight and you see him drop low, yeah sure GS can be nice but who cares if someone dies outside of a boss fight.
Overall GS spirit sounds great in theory but just isn't necessary or really hard to land properly for a priest outside of a predictable mechanic.
Only thing I'm hesitant about in this video holy pally stacking? Holy plays nitche is is best tank heal becan one take heal other ez but I wouldn't consider them a "raid" healer yes they can but compared to shammys druids and holy preist that all raid heal so much easier ehhh idk
this guy has a crush on Paladins
No I think he just understands that after 15 year old data has shown time and time again, they're the strongest healers in Wrath.