How to correctly expose Sigma FP RAWs EP. 3 - CDNG

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  • Опубликовано: 5 окт 2024

Комментарии • 82

  • @colingregg
    @colingregg 2 года назад +3

    So impressive and invaluable as I shoot mainly at night. I’ve been under the illusion the DNG Neg responds to slight under exposure. Not too much but I’m always pushing to -2.5 at 3200. It feels I’m at the limits. You’ve conformed it. Thanks so much for your time and effort. Outstanding work.

    • @IonCosmina
      @IonCosmina  2 года назад

      Hi thank you so much for the feedback! If you shoot mainly at night, I've noticed that the footage behaves better when it's just given a low light setting (like the one in the super low light footage) than if you have a high contrast setting with the subject let's say lit 'normally', and most of the other parts of the image underexposed. We did a short with CDNG long time ago when we first got the Sigma to look at that:
      Night Terror - a Sigma FP journey into horror
      ruclips.net/video/qDIH08nm5Ko/видео.html. The ISO is 3200 everywhere if I remember correctly, the lens was an 85mm samyang T1.5 and we were shooting at T1.5-2.0.

    • @smalldeekgeorge
      @smalldeekgeorge Год назад

      Oh no... :D after iso 800 you always overexpose! During night a never go above iso 3200 I open my lens to 1.4 when I need. at the night I just set my camera to iso 3200 and control amount of light with the lens also I avoid very dark places!

  • @photomg316
    @photomg316 2 года назад +1

    All these fp videos are great thank you so much for sharing your research , hope to see episode 4 and 5 in the future.

  • @selfscience
    @selfscience Год назад +1

    I like when your dad starts going crazy.

  • @shueibdahir
    @shueibdahir 8 месяцев назад +1

    Very good video! Thank you for this priceless info. I'd like to add that i've been using cinemadng since the original bmcc 2.5K and have learned to use dng files. The problem with dngs is that they're hard to work with if you don't quite understand them.
    Also the BMDFilm Log is very limited in terms of color and dynamic range. It compresses the shadows way too much due to it's limited dynamic range.
    Since the sigma fp shoots linear raw, i's suggest using linear gamma in the camera raw tab. We'll leave the linear to log transformation for the cst which is much better at this than the camera raw tab, since davinci intermediate is a gamma that can handle high dynamic range without compressing the beautiful tonal range of the sigma fp.
    Also choose the biggest color space which is p3-d60. You can now transform these to either aces or davinci wg. Turn of all tonemapping which will push the highlights above 100ire.
    Then on another node transform from aces or davinci wg to rec. Use the "davinci" tonemapping method for this.
    When it comes to the camera raw tab, do not adjust contrast, gain, lift or even saturation here. This will have severe consequences to your image quality. Only adjust wb, exp, sharpness and midtone detail, highlight detail and the shadows. Enable highlight recovery and only adjust the highlight detail once you've corrected the exposure in the node tree later on. Leave the rest to the node tree.
    Now do all of your creative adjustments in between the first cst. Since now you're working in the much larger gamma/colorspace that can handle sigma fps color and dynamic range.
    Fix the exposure first using the primaries or the curves and from there on do as you please.
    You'll instantly notice how much better the tonal range of the image looks, the entire dynamic range of the camera fits and there's no need to compress anything unless you want to recover the highlights. The noise floor is exatcly where it should be and hasn't been lifted up due to bad linear to log conversion in the raw tab.
    When working with any linear raw cinemadng footage, always leave the linear to log conversion for the color space transform. This applies to sigma fp, blackmagic cameras, canon magic lantern raw dng and even dngs converted from prores raw.

    • @IonCosmina
      @IonCosmina  8 месяцев назад

      Hi! Thanks so much for such a detailed and spot-on discussion on sigma FP color grading! It's really useful to have the opinion of someone who's worked with cdng files for a while. I was actually wondering how different black magic's cdng files are from sigma's

  • @User_not_found_403
    @User_not_found_403 2 года назад

    Wow this is a ton of work. Thank you Ion & Cos - much appreciated!

  • @fillblood3075
    @fillblood3075 Год назад +1

    Hey, thanks for your work! That is very usefull!

  • @therqa
    @therqa 2 года назад +1

    Thank you for this very in depth video! Don't pay attention to the haters, though I think you could shorten it if you wanted to, since the main info I want to know is in that small Good exposure levels section! But I understand there are people who want to see the complete data.
    Maybe you covered this but I had some other questions:
    -Related to Colin Gregg's post, is it safer to use 6400 in general than 3200 in low light situations? Let's say -2.5 or -2 like the other poster said.
    -Were these tests done with the OFF setting?
    -It seems like other people have mentioned different grading workflows... have any of these worked out and are you going to do another video like you mentioned?
    -I see what you mean about the NL's but CDNG is definitely the hobbyist choice (especially for doc or on the go... it's what I would prefer to use so I would love to figure out the best practices). Have you been able to look at FilmConvert? I don't want to spend so much but I'm curious if in terms of work hours it is worth it.

    • @IonCosmina
      @IonCosmina  2 года назад

      Hi, thank you for your comment! Haters - well erhm it’s a work in progress I guess, we’re trying to improve in all areas of these videos - content, explanations, speed of talking, talking head…That being said I’m sure we won’t be able to please everyone :)
      - Here’s a video with low light CDNG footage shot at ISO3200 and ISO6400: ruclips.net/video/t_9tE54a7n8/видео.html . ISO 3200 is indeed a bit cleaner BUT I can’t say there’s a significant difference in the noise levels. I think they both look very good (compared to say sony at those underexposure levels). They look much better than in the high contrast (lighting wise) I used in these tests.
      - “Were these tests done with the OFF setting?” Do you mean “color off” mode? If so yes.
      - Grading workflows - I haven’t gotten much further than what you saw in this video. What I can tell so far is that’s it’s definitely a matter of taste more than some sort of quality enhancement of the footage. I’ve checked Philip Bloom’s review of the FP again ruclips.net/video/czcYSDoLrXY/видео.html and at 14:49 he shows a BMD Film image and then an image where he used the Arri Alexa REC 709 LUT and that looks real nice. Yep, I’ll do another video - I need to shoot some more clips outside as well and then try the different grading workflows on all three types of situations (high contrast indoors, outside, lowlight)
      - FilmConvert (FC) - YES, we have it, but for FCPX only. Ion’s been using it for a very long time. That’s basically the only way he graded C-log 2 footage from Canon C100. I on the other hand prefer to grade from scratch, I don’t use FC or LUT’s or anything (which might not be the best solution! I hope I’ll prove myself wrong when doing the grading workflows video and convert to using LUTs). You can download a trial version of FC and and put it to test. There are some pros I think are worth considering. The biggest one for me is if I use s-log from Sony, I find using FC much faster than grading that from scratch… Also if you like a specific look from FC (for example I like a Kodak emulation) and you think it’s applicable to all (or a lot of) your clips, then it’s worth buying. The color science of those emulations has a lot of work behind it so I think it’s very hard (or even impossible) to get to those exact results if you try to do it manually.

  • @prodbytibi
    @prodbytibi 2 года назад +1

    Being waiting a long time

    • @IonCosmina
      @IonCosmina  2 года назад +1

      Sorry!!! It really took a long time and a lot of work! And I decided I have to stop it somewhere because I kept finding stuff to add. Hope you enjoy it!

    • @IonCosmina
      @IonCosmina  2 года назад

      Slimraw - Yessss! we got it, it's great!!! can't tell the difference between the original footage and the slim raw one. Will do a video on that...at some point...

    • @prodbytibi
      @prodbytibi 2 года назад +1

      @@IonCosmina Thanks for your response ! I'm already enjoying your videos ! Thanks a lot !

  • @archelfrancisco
    @archelfrancisco 11 месяцев назад +1

    very educational video, I have question, can we use ssd m2 with correct cable for sigma fp? thank you

    • @IonCosmina
      @IonCosmina  11 месяцев назад

      Hi. Thank you! Yes. I’ve made an external ssd with a case with adapter from m.2 to usb-c and it works. Just have to find the right ssd for it. It must not get too hot and be fast enough for cdng data rates.

  • @suyogmarlecha4466
    @suyogmarlecha4466 2 года назад +2

    I think you can check out the Da Vinci Color Managed workflow where the camera tab also has a cndg default color mode. The colors and noise level might be different.

    • @IonCosmina
      @IonCosmina  2 года назад

      Hi, thanks! Is this the HDR work flow? Will check it out!

    • @suyogmarlecha4466
      @suyogmarlecha4466 2 года назад +2

      @@IonCosmina No, doesn;t matter whether this is HDR or SDR. In my testing with the Sigma FP CDNG files, I tried the following options:
      1. Working with P3D60 color space and linear gamma (Non managed)
      2. Converting it to Arri color space and cineon film log and use a Rec 709 lut (non managed)
      3. Working with Da Vinci color managed in Da Vinci wide Gamut.
      I got the best and fastest results with the 3rd option.

    • @suyogmarlecha4466
      @suyogmarlecha4466 2 года назад

      @@chicagoblow The topic was about noise level in Cdng files...

    • @suyogmarlecha4466
      @suyogmarlecha4466 2 года назад +1

      @@chicagoblow well...stop listening!

  • @randallburgess6393
    @randallburgess6393 Год назад

    Of course you have a lot of noise in any raw footage because the camera is giving you raw data there is no noise reduction being done in the camera which a lot of the cameras Sony and Canon and such actually do some basic noise reduction even in what they deem as raw or log footage it’s not entirely raw data as in the red or in the sigma so yes when you shoot raw in sigma or in red you will see noise and then you have to De noise it in post

  • @colorsigma101
    @colorsigma101 2 года назад +2

    Amazing work ! You are writing the FP Bible ! I'm wondering how premiere pro handles the FP CDNG ?

    • @IonCosmina
      @IonCosmina  2 года назад

      we don't work in premiere unfortunately so we don't have an adobe subscription to try it out :(

    • @therqa
      @therqa 2 года назад

      Premiere (as of right now) cannot read fp cdng :(

    • @colorsigma101
      @colorsigma101 2 года назад

      @@therqa Damn thank you, i wont even bother !

    • @smalldeekgeorge
      @smalldeekgeorge Год назад

      It can read cdng if you drag and drop it to the media import page. But it is very limited you cant get even 25% of what camera is capable! RAW is not debayered correctly! Premiere pro is a big disadvantage!

  • @fillblood3075
    @fillblood3075 Год назад

    And there's a quick question: have you tried testing dynamic range and noise levels with the MOV format, especially with colours disabled?

    • @IonCosmina
      @IonCosmina  Год назад

      We shot on MOV but we didn’t like it. The colors disabled helps a bit but there’s no comparison with the RAW. I don’t recommend shooting MOV with the Sigma fp professionally.

  • @IliaKurochkin
    @IliaKurochkin 2 года назад +1

    Hey! Thanks for video! It is super useful.

    • @IonCosmina
      @IonCosmina  2 года назад

      Hi, thanks for the live! Saw a bit towards the end last night :). How do you get the Russian autogenerated audio? I’m curious to see what comments you were getting so I’m looking for a way to translate the video. I don’t have an option of autogenerated english caption on youtube :(

    • @IliaKurochkin
      @IliaKurochkin 2 года назад

      @@IonCosmina we have yandex browser. And in this browser on youtube it can autotranslate and voiceover.
      I dont know, can it translate from Russian to English. I will verify it later and write you.
      Btw any browser can do it. And if it works you can watch any video on english ( but some time translation is funny. When you say "Sigma dont have flat" Yandex translate " Sigma dont have home" , its funny) Homeless Sigma)

    • @IonCosmina
      @IonCosmina  2 года назад

      Cool thanks! will look that up for the browser as well. Ha ha great, poor homeless Sigma! I'm looking forward to weird translations :))

  • @cody8860
    @cody8860 2 года назад +2

    Speaking of those nasty RUclips artifacts. Is there a way to reduce them? Often it seems the worst cases are those that use 10 bit, log or RAW as well with post grading. I've noticed some channels suffer less than others and it's not just the codec. It's a shame because on OLED the artifacts are so noticeable that it's distracting, particularly in dark scenes.

    • @IonCosmina
      @IonCosmina  2 года назад

      There are many who made how to export to youtube videos. We usually export in 422 prores and it helps but I think there might be better ways.

    • @shueibdahir
      @shueibdahir 8 месяцев назад +1

      @@IonCosminahdr video upload completely removes it

  • @nikolozgabedava6934
    @nikolozgabedava6934 Год назад +1

    I have upcoming short indie film production. What do you think can be a storage solution for real time editing. I need to get CDNG 4k and then I need all the clips together but I am stuck with my m1 Mac book pro 512GB. any solutions?

    • @IonCosmina
      @IonCosmina  Год назад

      You can get a crucial mx500 2.5 sata 3 and an adapter from sata to usb-c to keep it docked to the m1 mac. Or an external ssd t5 samsung or sandisk. You can also record on it with the fp.

  • @suhaib2789
    @suhaib2789 2 года назад +2

    How many stops of DR you can get in CDNG?

    • @IonCosmina
      @IonCosmina  2 года назад

      Hi! It looks to me like test results fall within the official Sigma FP dynamic range chart results. You can see it here for each ISO: Sigma FP dynamic range chart from “Sigma FP Dual Base ISO Technology” white paper: www.dpreview.com/forums/post/64495944

  • @fjrr2017
    @fjrr2017 Год назад +1

    Please a video about the best way to exposure with the on-camera false colours! Is it true that is only reliable at iso 100?

    • @IonCosmina
      @IonCosmina  Год назад +1

      Hi! I'm going to have to double check but when i played with it for a bit I thought it was the best representation for all the ISOs from all the monitors i tried - which are BM video assist recorder 12G, ninja V and false colors app from davinci ( which emulates false colors from bmpcc4k and 6K)

    • @fjrr2017
      @fjrr2017 Год назад

      @@IonCosmina Thanks for your answer! So the on-camera false colours should be accurate in any ISO.

  • @smalldeekgeorge
    @smalldeekgeorge Год назад +1

    Best result I got from this camera at any iso and exposure level is to set both timeline and output color space to rec709 scene, set color space and gamma in raw tab to blackmagic and use bm film to rec 709 v2 lut!

    • @IonCosmina
      @IonCosmina  Год назад +1

      thanks for sharing!!! I haven't tried this, will give it a go :)

    • @smalldeekgeorge
      @smalldeekgeorge Год назад

      Yesterday i was shooting in cold and camera started to drop frames and to behave starnge. Do you have any experience with camera in up to -5 degrees Celsius?

    • @IonCosmina
      @IonCosmina  Год назад +1

      We never shot with it in cold weather. We’re not going to try :)

    • @smalldeekgeorge
      @smalldeekgeorge Год назад +1

      Yes very smart of ofcourse. 😆
      So what happened i was 20 min on -12 Celsius. And than brought it inside my house on +29. So all cold from camera turned into water. It was dripping from inside the sensor and lens was completely wet i could see water water between each glass layer. Luckily after letting it dry itself for 6 hours it was working again. Needed to use glass cloth to clean the smudges from sensor and lens. Getting sharper images than before on my 7artisan t1.05 at t1.4. 😊😁

    • @IonCosmina
      @IonCosmina  Год назад

      @@smalldeekgeorge thrilling day :))

  • @EUGEN_VIDEO
    @EUGEN_VIDEO Год назад +1

    Hi Kosina! I saw the picture of the ssd disk icon and decided to write. I recently bought a sigma fp and a samsung t5 ssd. But the write speed to the ssd drive stops at an indefinite moment and not randomly. I can record continuously for 23 min max, then even shorter segments. Why does this happen?

    • @IonCosmina
      @IonCosmina  Год назад

      Hi! We only had short shots, under 5 minutes with sandisk but I’ll give it a try. We only had problems with the t7 touch and cable problems with sandisk. We have now rwo versions of sandisk 1tb ssd and we will try them both and get back to you.

    • @EUGEN_VIDEO
      @EUGEN_VIDEO Год назад +1

      @@IonCosmina Ok. Thanks

    • @IonCosmina
      @IonCosmina  Год назад

      I just tested one of my sandisks and it stopped at 13 minutes. Trying again and then switching to other ssd’s.

    • @EUGEN_VIDEO
      @EUGEN_VIDEO Год назад

      @@IonCosmina I have the same result with the Samsung T5, I think this is normal.

    • @IonCosmina
      @IonCosmina  Год назад

      What worries me more is thst the second run is over 2 minutes and the third is under 2 minutes. I tried with the mx500 from crucial and it stops at under 2 minutes. I think I’ll have to test some really fast drives next.

  • @chitranshutapas
    @chitranshutapas Год назад +1

    Hi Which SSD so you use?

    • @IonCosmina
      @IonCosmina  Год назад +1

      External ssd - sandisk 1 tb ( the cheap one). And the crucial mx500 with sata to usb-c adapter. I use the cable that came with a samsung t7 ‘cause it’s not glitchy.

    • @chitranshutapas
      @chitranshutapas Год назад

      @@IonCosmina Do they work fine with 4k CDNG 12bit RAW.

    • @IonCosmina
      @IonCosmina  Год назад +1

      @@chitranshutapas Yes.

    • @chitranshutapas
      @chitranshutapas Год назад +1

      @@IonCosmina alright thanks 🙏

    • @IonCosmina
      @IonCosmina  Год назад

      Must update you on the fact that all these ssd's are not reliable for long shots. If you shoot more than 10 minutes shots, I'd switch ssd's after the shots to use only not heated drives. They work only with shorter bursts. I'll get my hands on a t5 to see if it heats up harder. But for now, I'd stick to recording externally on braw or prores raw on longer shoots like interviews and/or events.

  •  2 года назад +1

    Please relax. Your monotone robotic talk, and the artificial repetitive gestures make the video so cringy, it becomes almost impossible to concentrate on its otherwise excellent content. It comes across as if you were making a parody of yourself. Optics are important. Even in "technical" videos.🤖

    • @IonCosmina
      @IonCosmina  2 года назад

      I wish it were that easy ! I did try to compensate with the animations though :) Nevertheles, next time is a new try.

    • @thepropolys
      @thepropolys 2 года назад +2

      I didn't find it distracting. In fact, I find your comment to be magnitudes more cringy.

    • @ajishgmz
      @ajishgmz 2 года назад

      @christoph dude try to do the same in front of the camera, then comment.

    •  2 года назад

      @@IonCosmina I'm sure. Nowadays it's easy to make a ton of takes (without going broke) till you get used, and feel confortable talking in front of a camera. You can do it! ;)

    • @MichaelKaykov
      @MichaelKaykov Год назад +1

      I think her manner of talking is great! Informative and clear.