I’m a trans man, and I’ve definitely felt the “oh I’d totally be into you if you weren’t trans” thing, and it sucks. I’ve mostly gotten it from straight women and gay men and it hurts every time. Bi folks tend to be a a safer bet for me, but even then :/
as a trans guy ive come across this. semi-related, bi folks are great til they reveal they prefer girls after they already displayed attraction towards you then its a bit like 🔍
I can't really speak from my own experiences because I don't date people,,,, but I assume it's genitals While there are people who are fine dating trans people who were assigned at birth outside of their preference, I could definitely see some not being able to get past it Are there any trans people out there who have gotten bottom surgery and have different experiences?
Hey I'm a trans man! I don't think there's anything wrong with what you said. At first I was worried that you would say something like "most trans men are too feminine for me" or "it's hard for me to see them as fully masculine." But it seems like rather than considering trans men to not be men, you have a specific type that applies to both cis and trans men, and it's more common for you to encounter cis men in the first place. As for my own experience, I have definitely been involved with people (mostly cis guys) who would be initially interested in me and then either lose interest when they learn I'm trans, or realize that being involved with a trans guy was not what they had expected. For example, they might be initially attracted to my body or the idea of it, and then it would sink in that they would actually be involved with a guy and be seen as gay by other people. There was one cis guy who I got along with really well and who was really into me sexually, but then when we met and went on a date, he wouldn't hold hands with me in public. Then he cut things off immediately afterward. A lot of cis guys go into a relationship with a trans guy early in transition expecting it to be like dating a quirky girl, and then when the guy starts passing or they themself are read as gay, they get cold feet. Which is obviously really hurtful. Imo they should think in depth about how their attraction works and do some research before getting involved with trans people in the first place. I haven't had as many negative experiences with cis women because they don't tend to be as forward as cis guys when it comes to dating in general. So if a cis girl wasn't sure about me, she probably wouldn't make the first move in the first place. My most successful dating experiences have been with bi, pan, and trans people because there isn't usually much of a learning curve. For you, I think it's considerate not to get involved with someone unless you're confident that them being trans would not be confusing or difficult for you. But some of that hesitation may also just be a fear of doing something wrong in a situation you're unfamiliar with. So I would say that if you meet a meaty bearded trans guy who's a total top and you're both into each other, it may be good to just go for it!
I definitely feel that, though in a different way. I'm a trans woman and I've had (mostly straight) guys who would show me lots of love and display their attraction in private but in public they get cold with me. It really makes me feel like I don't pass or that I'm not good enough for them. I've had them get angry at me if I talk to them about it. Luckily they've never gotten physical, but I've definitely feared for my safety. This has only happened with straight guys, both ones who'd never dated a trans woman before and ones who've told me they had "experience" with trans women. It's why I mostly date bisexual men. They're often less anxious, ashamed and not very sensitive to other's judgement of them. Dating cis straight guys can be very scary. It's a different experience, but I'd say they're in the same lane.
i find this totally relatable! I am pre-T, and i have had expirence with cis men and it is scary. I think they like the idea of me being less feminine but being assigned female at birth (low key fetishistic), and when i express discomfort in my chest and genitals they are confused no matter how much i explain and start getting awkward when i talk about pursuing a physical transition. its very sad as i am very attracted to masculine people and its easier to find cis men than trans men in my area and in general, only due to the fact most of them [cis men] are very uneducated about trans people.
@@mikelmontoya2965 I didn't. I never date people who identify as not being attracted to men. The guy I went on that date with initially told me he was bi. The other guys were basically bicurious but not experienced with trans guys at all.
But really... maybe I don't understand because I'm bi. Imagine that a guy is on HRT for 1/2 years and passes - what could be so different about having sex with him or with any other guy?
@@bernardomorais8490 a lot to strictly gay/lesbain and striaght people aren't comfortable with certain geentalia, often times which we've been told out whole lives that we should HAVE to like.. Lots of times there's trauma connected. It's not a simple matter of how far a transition is or anything.
@@nareushardin8990i get it, the trans community doesn't want anybody to have sex with people they might not be comfortable with. But sometimes it can be frustrating when lesbians/gays express this thought when they are not being asked to, it can trigger immense dysphoria bc genitalia is often something that can't be changed. For instance, I posted some pics on Instagram the other day and this gay guy commented "he's cute but I wouldn't have courage to go down on a pussy". And when we complain about this type of harrasment, cis people sometimes gaslight us saying that we are trying to force them into fucking us (nobody is forcing anyone, just mind your own business)
@@bernardomorais8490 what I consider the biggest problem here is that it's love we are talking about. A relationship is always an extremely taxing ordeal, and by doing something out of ones comfort zone can be very risky I think, there's a lot of feelings involved. But then again I don't know, and haven't tried it my self, etcetera^^
I know what you mean with the "attracted to trans men who are like the cis men you're attracted to" part cos like... that's good actually imo? That means there's not much of a distinction in your mind between different men right? It's gonna be the same regardless - some people like more feminine men, some people like more masculine men, etc etc. If it was a case of "trans men who ~look like men~" it treads on transphobic territory and even if that's true for an individual its one of those things that really doesn't need to be said cos weeee know aha Like there's plenty of trans men who look cis who wouldn't fit your categories. It might be that less trans men are likely to fit your preferences, but your preference isn't exclusionary of trans men and it doesn't put them down as men either! (The hesitance is understandable, especially with your experience!! Although we're not so vulnerable that we couldn't take a misunderstanding you know, it's something that sucks but if the other person is at least supportive and understanding of the situation and emotions there's not much to do with that aha)
I agree! I'm on HRT for a while and I pass pretty well - but i'm a flamboyant twink and 100% not what she would be attracted to. At the same time I have friends with even less HRT time than me that would fit the bill - they are super masc, love their beards, etc I think that's normal to have a "type", it would only be transphobic if it was something along the lines of "trans men are not my type, period"
I really don’t like the “looking cis” terminology. I understand phrases like passing and stuff need to exist because they describe something. But I just feel like it’s such cis centric language. I’m trans and I pass 100% of the time and generally am stealth even. But I wouldn’t describe myself as “cis looking” I’m trans, I look trans because that’s who I am. People have said to me “oh I never would have known” which pisses me off so much. Do all trans people look the same? What does this really even mean, you know?
@@whatsername465 it means people are going to assume you're cis - I don't like the language particularly either, but for the sake of being succinct I'm describing the thought process of "passing" with the most basic description. I could say "looks cis" or I could say "looks like what we expect cis men to look like, thus under the spectre of cisnormativity is considered to pass as a man, and as there are many ways to look cis this is effectively short hand for 'not typically clocked' - which of course does not make a man less of a man, but in the framing of this discussion I'm trans and Kat is trans and we both understand this, and no doubt anyone coming to the table with an informed opinion also understands basic 101 trans stuff, so elaborating all of this might be a strange tangent--" Like I don't disagree but it's also exhausting to have to qualify everything with an explanatory paragraph sjsjfbs so forgive me for that
There was a guy in my sexual anthropology class that I was attracted to and he eventually asked me out. On the first date I found out he was Trans. As a gay man, I felt super confused and weird. It took me a while to realize that I was attracted to him because he WAS a man. The weight just lifted off my shoulders. 💁🏼♂️❤️✌🏻
@@facelessdroneI don't think there's anything wrong with being honest about grappling with this, let's applaud people for being open and improving themselves. Not shame them for not "knowing better" in the first place.
I was/am going through a situation like you described. Well, perhaps the reversed? Anyways, I’m non-binary (amab) And am attracted to men. I matched with a trans guy on okcupid. Tbh, at the time I was just swiping on initial attraction so I didn’t realize he was trans. Once we matched I read his profile and had that same thought. “Idk if I could date/have sex with/what have you a trans man.” I put my initial hesitations to the side and decided to get to know him. He’s funny, we are in to a lot of the same things, and obviously I think he’s attractive. The time comes for us to set up a date and I decided to just be completely and totally honest with him. I told him I had never dated a trans guy before, and even though we clicked really well I didn’t want to build his hopes up and then come to find out I couldn’t do it. I left the ball in his court and told him I only wanted to go on the date if he was comfortable with that. With the fact we might go out and have a really good time, but me not being able to get past him being trans. He said he was okay with that and so we went on our date. Things worked out for us. We’ve been dating for a month now and things seem to be going rather well. I think that’s the key. Just being completely honest with how you are feeling, your concerns, and all that jazz. Let them make the decision if they are comfortable with putting themselves in that position and going from there.
It’s sad that people within our own community would reject another trans person solely on the basis of them being trans or in this case entertain the thought. The fact that this guy said yes to going on a date with you after you spoke to him like that is sad, he deserves better.
mcrx604 so I should have kept my reservations to myself? Instead of being open and honest? I didn’t say “idk if I can get over you being trans.” The conversation was much more than just that. I was just using the words Kat used in her video. We spent about an hour on the phone discussing BOTH of our reservations. I’m a sex worker. He knew this at that time. I also didn’t want him to continue in a relationship unless he was comfortable with that because I’m not going to stop sex work because I’m in a relationship, and that’s something not everyone is comfortable with. We spoke about boundaries, hard noes, and possibilities. Because my thought process is that I want both partners going in knowing some boundaries and having some of an understanding of what each other’s wants and needs are. And we’ve continued to have conversations about what each other is comfortable with. And it’s a two way street. He’s never dated a non binary person. He didn’t know things about me. What parts of my body my dysphoria centers around, or the language that causes me dysphoria. We BOTH agreed that having these conversation, and being completely open about where each other’s comforts lie was a much better way of navigating each other’s identities and uncertainties than waiting for something to happen and then it being a more painful problem we have to deal with.
@@TheSvnoyi as a trans guy: I think you did the right thing! Honesty is essential if you want a relationship to go anywhere. That goes for both trans stuff and stuff that has nothing to do with being trans. So it's a good note to start on.
I've had a weird experience as a pre-hormones trans dude who is only male attracted. I've been a lot of straight guys "first time" and despite them being nice people it made me extremely uncomfortable worrying that they subconsciously just are sexually attracted to me as female in their mind. I made up a weird rule where I wouldn't date a cis man unless he had been sexual with another cis man. It's fucked but it was the only way I could feel secure that I wasn't a straight mans exception. Anyways lol my bf now is cis and gay so im good
im pre-T and ive had this same thing happen to me. I've legitimately had cis men ive dated who have behind my back disregard my identity and say "i dont see him that way". Its hurtful to wonder if they're only attracted to /me being AFAB
@@commierants "Its hurtful to wonder if they're only attracted to the assigned female at birth part." It is very weird reading all these comments. So what if he likes your female at birth part? Would it be better for you if he hated that about you? No one is defining what is real the goal of dating. Are all of you just looking for one night stands rather then a life long relationship, or just adding a notch to your bed post? I just don't get life anymore. A round peg used to fit in a round hole. A man and a woman fell in love and would start a family...that was the old days. Now everyone has their genitals cut up and inverted in a way to find meaning a pleasure in life.
Honestly as a trans masc person I think you handled this really compassionately, sincerely and well. You're honest with your reasons and they're reasons that make sense and come from a place of well meaning and personal taste and that's completely okay.
As a trans guy, I don’t think it’s transphobic to only like macho manly men (trans or cis). Like I have types of guys I go after too! I feel like we need to all understand is that all us fellas can take so many shapes and sizes and faces. I’m a very dainty feminine trans guy but I’m still super proud of it. Although I’m gay, girls still find me attractive because their type of guy is a little flamboyant. Ain’t no shame
I'm a transguy and I've gotten the "I just can't do it" from gay men NUMEROUS times. They're afraid they'll lose their "gay card" or whtvr. I think it's a cisguy thing because I've never really had it from straight women. The weirdness dating women comes in when you're acting as their stepping stone from straight to bi lmfao
can confirm, and it's always such a great time hearing them backpedal and act like they didn't just say they don't think of you as what you are. But they don't.
I'm a queer guy, but I really don't get the penis obsession going around the gay community. Like... penises are great, yes, but... vaginas are also great, right? So why rejecting a hot/cute guy just because he has one? To be honest, I've never been intimate with a trans guy, but I definitely think there're plenty of very attractive trans guys and I'd have no problem dating or fucking one, even if it's something I've never done before. I'm even looking forward to doing it for the first time lol
I feel you on this. Many women have hit on me and then at some point they throw in there "I've been kind of bicurious lately..." I hate the feeling of being someone's bisexual experiment.
I've seen it in another thread on this comment section and uh. Can we please condemn how cis people wield their transphobia withou being biohobic and misogynistic by casually putting bi women under the bus please? We gain nothing and can learn more like a lot by not heaping more hatred on an already vulnerable group. Bi women go through unique pressures that require more thought than commenters are exhibiting. Of course OF COURSE I'm mad that those bi women didn't know anything n in turn were shitty and I say this as anothe transgender individual you should condemn it without reservation. But it's kind of hard to see that for multiple people commenting this can't be done with more awareness of how you might sound. Know yourselves...... and make your point without being a biphobe lol. Trans bi women exist
Those women liked you because they were bi and if they were transphobic towards you it cannot rest solely on their being bisexual... You might be misunderstanding what bisexuality is. Please fix yourself and have more empathy for people To make my point painfully clear: bi women are not fake/liar heterosexuals who specialize in deceit. Nor are they lesser versions of wlw. Nor are they confused. Nor do they play with the binary like a child or perpetuate it stubbornly & violently the way cishets do. Insinuating that they are is a dangerous thing. And you need to stop.
Trans man here. I think you summed up perfectly my position when it comes to dating trans women. I don’t often see trans women I’m actually attracted to. When that does happen, I’m worried about wasting her time if it turns out I’m not into it. But my general dating experience has been... well, basically, I haven’t had a gf since I started T 4 and s half years ago. Part of that is related to not being everyone’s cup of tea. The other part of that is I often don’t know where to look to date. I’ve had little to no luck with dating apps. And queer spaces... They’re honestly just not for me. The ones I’ve been in are just too... Idk... like either it’s a very structured support group or it’s a club. Neither of those things are for me. So it’s like... where do I go to find a date? I have no idea. And I know I can’t be the only trans guy in this boat.
I’m a trans guy and I wouldn’t date a trans guy. Or a cis guy. Or anyone. I’m aro ace lmao. No but fr you handled this very tricky topic beautifully and where able to provide a unique perspective that people honestly need. So thanks 🙏
statistically you'd have to date 200 men before one was trans and that just sounds exhausting. Granted transpeople probably meet a hell of a lot more transpeople in their lives than cisgenered folk do but still, it's gotta be less than 1 in 10 even in that case. I don't think whether someone has or hasn't dated a trans person in the past really makes a difference, it's how they react when the opportunity arises that matters.
1 in 200? That sounds super official and I'd definitely trust Google not to pull any coherent results if I put that in, just wondering if there's a study and an author u read that that refers to? No pressure. Just kinda curious 🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈💚💛💜💗💗💜💛💛💚💛💜💗
Hello, trans man here. I have to say I was very worried going into this video, because unfortunately it's been a very common experience for me to hear straight/bi trans women state very clearly that they would never consider dating a trans man. Now I mean, I hear that from cis people a lot of the time - but it hurts more from trans women because it feels like they should know what that's like, you know? Hell, I remember a while ago reading an article by a trans woman who was frustrated at how cis men wouldn't date her, but even said in the article that she'd never date a trans man. And that hurts in a way that I can't really express well - one would think that if someone knows what it's like to be rejected for being trans, or not even be considered for being trans, they wouldn't do it to other people, but sadly, it seems that's not the case. Anyway, long lead in, sorry, but I have to say I breathed a huge sigh of relief as I got further into your video. I think you're coming from a really reasonable place. The unsurety and the fear of hurting someone the way you've been hurt is so real. The thing that really made me feel better was when you mentioned - the trans men you've been attracted to are "your type", because that's legit, right? Some of us have types! It makes sense that a trans guy would have to match what you like in a man for you to be into him. And while I definitely get not being sure about actually "going there", the fact you're open to it at all makes me feel a lot better. Because it's the openness that makes or breaks it for me - I don't mind if someone's not into me specifically. I don't mind if someone has never been into a trans guy so far. But someone not even considering letting themselves be into me or other trans men *just because I'm trans* just sucks so hard. That's what hurts for me, when people won't even let themselves be open to the possibility.
You put it really well! When it comes to trans women not liking trans men, I've also seen it on the flip side, with trans women dating trans men but calling themselves lesbians because they like anyone who isn't a cis man, which seems really transphobic to me.
I am surprised bi women said that to you? I can understand why straight women might have certain limitations and a more cis heteronormative outlook to sex and dating but I thought bi women who are members of LGBTQ community and attracted to more than one genders are beyond those limitations?
Hey Kat a trans masc fan here to send love xx Regarding the issue of never meeting a trans guy you were attracted to before recently, I just wanted to say that that's completely understandable. Before I went to college, there were not even many trans masc people I got along with! Now, many of my friends are trans. It was never enough for me just to have 'transness' in common with somebody.
I relate so much on the OKC thing. With the exception of one person, everyone I talked to (despite my oddly specific profile) has been SO outside my own world it's felt rather awkward to attempt to either go more into theirs or visa versa. Call me old fashioned but meeting people IRL at places you already go for interests you already have seems to have better long term outcomes.
Even though I'm a young trans masc, I have never liked the idea of being someone's first trans guy. It has always turned me off because I rather date someone who is confident in their attraction and love for me. Someone who knows exactly what they want and doesn't need help with figuring out with what exactly they want ya know? Like, I'm attracted to both women and men (and enbies) and I'll date a trans woman and or trans man because I know I'm attracted to them, confident in my attraction to them and I don't really care about what's in their pants because well, I like both of the pipework. My only problem is that I'm an awkward piece of crap who has a hard time talking to people that they like but I'm working on that
So, I'm a strictly gay man (I've tried dating women, cis and trans, and I cannot do it), and I'm currently dating a trans man -- and I'm gonna be honest, I feel more along the lines of what contrapoints states in her video (titled "Are Tr*ps Gay") where... like, for me, there is a BIG difference between a masculine vagina and a feminine vagina, and a masculine penis and a feminine penis. And I only like the former in each set. I'm into the masculine version of each, but I cannot get into the feminine version of each, because it just literally is so, so different. Most of the time, I don't even think of my bf as a trans guy in the sense that he's somehow Different from cis men, because his body parts are male and masculine even though they're not the same as a cis guy's (currently, since, I mean, that's another thing -- many trans ppl out there have had genital surgery). So it's a complicated one. But I do feel like genitalia, at least, isn't always what we think it's gonna be like.
@@user-ol8wo1cl1o Yeah, contrapoints breaks it down really well, and while not everyone is going to experience sex the same way, I just personally tend to feel similarly to how contrapoints describes it, wrt the genitalia specifically!
I literally hear this convo start playing in my head when i worry about dating someone outside my preferences, "im so scared of making THEM feel like an experiment, in order to find out if i like them/ enjoy being with someone new/trying something new, it requires a first time, but iv BEEN a first time for people so often that i worry about them feeling an ounce of what iv went through. I want to be with you but im so scared of being rejected/ making someone else who is trans feel rejected." The 'problematic' way to go about this complex topic is when someone cis puts aside their preferences, and then they ASSUME youre going to try and jump through hoops to 'make up' for what they have denied themselves by choosing to be with you, while they do very little to learn how to be with someone who isnt cis. Its a two way street. Trans people have been learning how to conform to CisHetero norms of dating/ sex, while the cis people we date often dont learn how to be better at accommodating Trans people 50/50 and meeting half way WITH ENTHUSIASM. And when two trans people try and date sometimes its a whole song and dance of trying not to hurt each other. Jeeze being trans is needlessly complicated sometimes lmao
i'm a gay trans man and it's actually really comforting to hear someone say that their attraction to trans men has the same criteria as their attraction to cis men -- it means you see us as men and hold us to the same standards. i've been a cis guy's "bi-curious exception" before and it absolutely does suck, but ultimately an adult in dating situations has to be ready for rejection. i'm glad i've experienced the rejections i have, because it's helped me to develop a sense of what I'M comfortable with in a developing potential relationship. it has helped me learn not to get in too deep too fast with people, and to see dating as a lighthearted thing. if it works out, great! if not, there's a lot of other things in life to spend time doing lol. i myself was hesitant to date other trans guys when i was younger, because of a few factors. first off, i felt like it would remind me of my own dysphoria and "trans issues" constantly. now that i'm secure in myself, the idea of dating a trans guy is highly appealing to me, because i'm frankly tired of the baggage that a lot of cis men seem to come with lol. but it's challenging to meet trans people in the first place since a lot of us tend to stay out of the spotlight for fear of backlash. so it's even more challenging to meet another trans guy i'm attracted to in the full scope if who he is as a person. i've seen many a trans guy i'm attracted to physically, but getting to know someone is a whole other ballpark. great video, Kat! love thinking about this stuff and exercising my brain muscles. 💖
I don't think you'd be unable to work through that hesitation. If he looked like the dudes you usually like. But there's a big difference between "I haven't had an opportunity," and "I am not open to this at all." And don't apologize for liking dad bods with beards xD that's not a cis-exclusive thing. Trans dudes can totally be big ol' dad's. If you approach any future trans guys with that honesty--and I'm only guessing that you would--you would probably be able to work out any issues you might have in that relationship :3
I had the same feelings years ago especially when I first transitioned. Later on I made the decision that what I was doing was excluding someone who could be worth everything someday just based on the unknown. I let my guard down, met a guy and almost two years later have never looked back. He is the love of my life ❤️ as long as anyone is being transparent in what they are or are not willing to go through or experience with one another, no one should be disrespected 😊 love is love ❤️
I'm transmasc and non-binary, and I'm in the position where I really want to meet and date other people like me. I have historically only dated cis men, and that was okay to an extent, but I want to actually meet people more like me. I get your reasoning though, and honestly I think I have had the same worries previously. At this point though, I think I've worn out my enjoyment of dating cis men and would rather meet other people with similar experiences to mine. I just wish more of them existed in the circles that I run with (marching band and education)
@@MyNontraditionalLife so I identify as non-binary, but I lean more towards masculine. I was assigned female at birth and currently present myself as mostly masculine. I use both non-binary and transmasc to describe myself because, while I don't fit into the traditional gender binary, I do lean masculine in how I identify and present. Hope that explanation helps!
Kat! Another Trans Guy here says thank you 🙏🏼 Thank you for caring, being vulnerable, thinking about it thoroughly and sharing - it made a big difference to me today. What you are saying really prioritizes the emotional safety of us trans men out there and I really appreciate you for being a participant in this conversation who is here to protect the safety of trans people - not someone here just to defend their beliefs/dismiss the conversation entirely for the sole purpose of appearing non-discriminatory. Your intellectual and emotional labor doesn’t go unseen - it made me really connect with you and your thoughts, so thank you again. ❤️ In a future video if you’re interested I would love to hear what you have to say to our non-binary siblings
the whole would I date a trans person is something I see on a lot of channels, and as a trans individual myself all I gotta say is yes, if your cis passing you get more attention and cis people feel more comfy with you. NOT ALL OF THEM, but a large amount. As for what you as an individual are attracted to, everyone has a type, everyone has a flavor, that being said all I would advise anyone dating is wether you think someones a 10 or not, or perfectly fits what you find attractive normally. Talk to em, see if you gel/vibe well, because sometimes if you ask people their type, their partner doesn't look it at all. But the way they mesh, is perfect symytry. I'd say just be open for any nice guys that say hi and see where it goes. ^^
Capricorn transman, who recently figured out that I am very much gynephilic even though I've primarily been in relationships with cis women. I'm attracted to femininity regardless of the package but that has definitely been something easier for me to express the further I've gone through transitioning. Heard your nerves a bit in the beginning, but I think you did great. You obviously wanted to make sure you didn't "Virgo foot in the mouth" this topic, lol. Anyways, I feel being open and honest about expectations, needs and desires with one another, is something that needs to be addressed up front. Especially, when it's unfamiliar territory such as whether or not you are going to date outside your comfort zone ( for lack of a better phrase). I mean I don't really see it as being any different than sleeping with a new partner, you take time to learn how their body works...idk... I might be a little to eager to give things a try sometimes when I'm attracted to someone to put that much thought into it in the moment. 😂😂😂
I feel you on being gynophilic. For me that means being attaracted to all feminine women (including trans women, oubviously) and then only twinks when it comes to guys. I'm a trans guy btw. What kind of guys are you attracted to I'm curious why you use the word gynophilic.
@@rez4998 Gynephilic means attracted to women (not general feminine behaviour) and he didn't mention men, so I don't know why you would assume he's attracted to them. Like it's OK if you use the word but also like twinks, but that's not what most people mean when they say it
@Rez Marks I used specifically gynephillic because as far as I have noticed my attraction has been primarily towards women (cis and female identifying). However, I won't deny that I have some attraction to feminine behavior in men and gender fluid individuals which I guess would make me a bit femmephillic 😏. Look I'm an artist I love femininity in all forms but my own (rimshot).
i feel this whole video really hard as a gay trans man honestly! especially as a gay bear who is primarily into bears. there arent a huge number of us trans bears out there! i really haven't encountered another trans bear that was actually a viable dating option, and sometimes i have that moment of self-doubt about internalized shit but at the end of the day, just like you say, i dont know what it would be like! and the opportunity doesn't come up often enough for it to be something i've explored much yet. youre definitely not alone in this weird situation also re: people who "just cant do it" ive encountered this a few times on hookup apps, and ive also enountered the gross-feeling Dude Who Says He's Super Into You And Will Wax Poetic About Everything He Wants To Do To You And Then When You Actually Hook Up There Are About 1.2 Seconds Between Him Cumming And Him Putting His Clothes Back On To Leave also i love this hair
Charly Kelley the amount of self hatred in this comment is sad and quite frankly pathetic. If you don’t see other trans men as men and “don’t know what it would be like!” - I can only imagine how you feel about yourself. How miserable must it be to live that way? It would “be like” .. dating a man. Because trans men (shocker) are men. This is the shit I expect for hear from cis people not my trans brothers, but I’ve seen it before and am disappointed but not surprised. So sad how we can’t even be united in our own community. Obviously date who you want but unpack this internalized shit for your own good, seriously.
im fine with being rejected or for people not be attracted to me, just dont make it about my identity. That's my main thought on it I think people psyche themselves out about these things, asking "would I date a ___", myself included, and get all worried about the bedroom. Just gotta let shit happen organically and not get your hopes up. The organic bit rly speaks to me
The most interesting part of the video for me was when you talked about online dating and how it's bringing people from different worlds, never heard it expressed that way before and it was perfect.
"the kind of man who can throw me across the room" fucking RELATABLE. I've always thought it would be easier to be in a relationship with someone who's also trans but it's also like, my preference is for people taller than me and I'm... pretty tall already!
Fair enough! My girlfriend is also trans and 6' tall. I'm 5'8, a kickboxer, muscular, and 180. Be patient. My girlfriend doesnt care about height though, but we have a lot in common and get on really well.
I don't think who you date should be intellectuallised. That sphere, I think, must be kept true to ones heart. However if the person is nice you can always spend time as friends. And see what happens.
I'm sipping a grounding herbal blend 🍵 Hey Kat, so I'm a tw and I was in yr situation until I met my bf and the end of last year. Until we had dated and became intimate I had zero intimate experience with AFAB people. I was really nervous about not being able to "hang". But I was honest about it right away. And he was in the same boat. Our first time was a really transformative, sexy, totally pleasurable moment for us. We took time to learn each other and I really wanted to dive into him so freely and completely - it just clicked. Now it's almost a year later and honestly... I truly have never been happier. Because his heart has become my home 🌱
Trans man who had the "someone attracted to you but couldn't do it" situation happen & can confirm it is excruciating. It's difficult because I would rather not be someone's First Trans Man because of that bad experience but if they've dated multiple trans men I start to wonder if I'm a fetish and they see me as an exception to my gender. Welp, I'm exposing my insecurities in public. Hi internet.
As a cis-passing trans male who is straight, I relate so much to your experiences with dating and the disappointments that come along with those who 'just cant do it' even though a strong attraction and connection is there. It does suck but its important to be patient, understanding and take things slow w/someone who still allows themself to date and get to know you for you as well as vice versa. Transparency, communication and comprehension is key. If they ultimately decide they don't know how to deal or don't want to deal, I've learned to not take it personally and just accept its more of a 'them' problem than a 'me' problem and there's nothing I can do about it. Their loss honestly. Clicked on your video bc i thought you were cis at first and i wanted to get that perspective but I'm still really glad i watched this. Keep up the great conversations!
@@whorianzyprexa5028 uh....I don't think that's what they were saying at all???? I think they were just saying that they'd date a trans man who shares their goals and values, same as with a cis man
They literally just said "interested in monogamy." That has nothing to do with whether someone cheats. Most of the people in the world who cheat do it while in monogamous relationships. This is so out of left field from both of you.
@@whorianzyprexa5028 polyamory isn't cheating!!! You can be in polygamous relationships and still be a cheating bastard because polyamory doesn't mean cheating by definition, it just has different boundaries than monogamy and both kinds of relationship can involve you falling victim to disgusting cheaters
trans guy here. i find myself currently in this situation - with a cis bi guy im into, who says he is really into me. we spend a lot of time together, we are sexual with each other - but something feels off to me. he doesn't seem to be as passionate and enthusiastic as i want a lover to be. he stops our sexual interactions midway in very sudden ways, and i suspect that he is stuck in that space of being really into me but unable to "do it". and i think he might be pushing himself into uncomfortable places because he doesn't wanna think of himself as "transphobic" or "not bisexual enough". I have brought these thoughts up to him - but he says that's not it. what "it" is - he cannot articulate. i am frustrated, once more, having to humour a cis man's emotional illiteracy. I have put myself in that position, myself - trying to be sexual with cis and trans women - and came to realize that while i can be attracted to many different *bodies* (as i have been very passionate with afab nonbinary people, and pre-transition trans guys) - i am simply not attracted to femme energies. and i have been doubting that about myself all my life - "is this misogyny? is this some patriarchal woman-hating aesthetic?" etc. i am big into self analysis and this also makes me big into self doubt. but i am finding that doubting my own feelings because they don't fit my politics doesn't really get me very far... but there ARE many different ways to understand and interpret my own feelings. So i am in a place now where i am trying to learn to accept my emotions and attractions even if they aren't a beacon of feminism. (because, duh, it is ok not to be attracted to women*, even though i am attracted to some). and try to make space for things in myself that might be "problematic" in order to be able to explore them far enough to UNDERSTAND what they are, and what they mean to me, and to learn to accept myself as i am and not try to modify my own being just to fit my own ideologies. As for the confused cis guy - i have decided to take a step back and give him space to figure himself out. i have no anger with him for trying things - but i want to be able to be sensitive enough to myself to know when enough is enough.
It is possible that he has ED. A lot of guys have ED (at different times in their lives) and it may have nothing to do with you. Either way, he should see some type of doctor about his issues.
I think the worst part about dating apps is that they discourage people from talking to each other. That reinforces every harmful assumptions people might have about relationships.
I feel like there’s this huge fear of the unknown when it comes to dating trans men (trans people in general), for anyone interested I’ve been in a relationship with a trans guy for a few months now, and here’s what it has been like: I’m a gay man and I’m totally into twinks, I met him in a bar and he totally fit the bill- totally adorable, kind, and we had great chemistry. A few weeks into dating him, he came out to me as being trans, at first I kind of made a face (I took it back instantly of course) and he told me to take a few days to settle into the idea, and let him know if I wanted to continue dating. So I started to imagine what sex would be like with him, I just went completely blank. I remember just thinking, “what would I do with him, could I be attracted to someone with a vagina?”. to cut a long story short, I realised that on a personality level- since me and him clicked so well together that I did want to pursue a relationship with him, then when it did come time for us to have sex, I realised that I was attracted to him because he has the appearance of a man, and that him having a dick or not really didn’t play into my attraction to him. If you’re confused on whether you want to date a trans person, when you meet one that you share a mutual attraction to, date them. If you’re not into it, oh well no harm done, if you are, congrats your dating pool has expanded ever so slightly.
bodies are important. that's kind of all there is to it. we all have preferences, it's all about understanding where those preferences come from and if it's a harmful place or not. though I guess that's precisely what's being discussed here
Oh lord I was so scared to watch this. So often I hear trans women talk about how they don't want to date trans men under the caveat of "preferences" but their justification is completely dismissive of trans men and ultimately boils down to the fact that they don't see trans men as men, they see us as women. Cis people then use this justification as further proof that trans men aren't really men and that these are valid arguments because a 'real' trans person, a trans woman, said it. Glad to hear this isn't the case here
thiefofthursday that sounds like exactly the case here, what made you think otherwise? She essentially said she feels that way, but doesn’t want to hurt anybody’s feelings
mcrx604 I thought she said she was attracted to trans men but was apprehensive about dating bc she hasn't clicked with the few she's encountered, which is different than what I usually hear, trans women writing off all trans men based on their trans status. Did I understand wrong?
Just say, “yea I’d date trans men”. And then go on to say that you like big, hairy, masc men - separate from that topic. You can’t always tell if someone is trans. And therefore your preferences aren’t wrong or have anything to do with trans people. It just gets problematic when people feel like they have to try to politicize and justify not dating every trans man there is when obviously you wouldn’t date every cis dude. As if people feel like they’re under interrogation lights, it really comes off the wrong way.
Trans men are just so much more mature emotionally, more accepting and understanding and just generally better than cis straight ones tbh. Sorry not sorry lol. Been with my trans bf 2 years and it’s the healthiest relationship I’ve ever had.
Kat this was great nuanced take on attraction and dating! As a trans man myself I wasn't bothered at all when you explained the type of men you were attracted to. Everyone has their own preferences and, as long as they aren't rooted in harmful ideas, that's perfectly fine. Also related, would you consider doing a video on how trans people only seem to have as much value as people find them attractive? This discussion reminds me of how trans people are weighed in worth by how desirable they are, which has really harmful effects on our self esteem and mental health. It shouldn't matter whether we're datable, but a lot of the time how attractive we are determines whether we're accepted as our gender or not. I think this discussion could also tie into the beauty standards video, maybe. Love your true tea, Kat! Keep making great content
Firstly, love the videos! I love listen to you while I draw. I think that is okay to be honest, with your own preferences and your anxieties with stuff you're not familiar with. Its not the same, but I personally know I like women as much as I like men, but I'm yet to go out with a girl because I'm yet to meet one that I'm attracted to -and likes me back, you know- in this small town in the middle of nowhere. Even so, the idea of going with a girl still makes me anxious because I haven't had the experience. I think is just natural to feel that way. That doesn't mean that I don't want to be with one, or that them being women stops me- its just the new experience that gives me anxiety. Too many possibilities to embarrass myself. Now- I think that everybody feels attraction or preference to certain "aesthetic"- in your case "the kind of man who can throw me across the room" aesthetic haha. It is not discriminatory if you simply aren't attracted to a particular person because of that, its not really about them being trans, it is just about them as people. You won't simply stop being nice to them, just because you aren't attracted to them. My point is that having a type that turns you on is not something to apologize for, and I agree that people try to bring this political correctness to something as basic as attraction. The more honest you are with your own preferences, the less pain you will cause to people by getting cold feet. If you're going to into a romantic situation, better go with a person that actually makes you feel the feelings. The problem is that today being seen as attractive is the same as being accepted, as being adequate- so when someone doesn't feel that way we can see it as rejection of us as people. Now, some people DO put that value and treat like shit those that they don't deem attractive- but those are just plain assholes. Anyway, your videos always make me think! Keep the great work! -and excuse the grammar, English is not my first language.
This is a really interesting conversation for me because I'm a trans masc dude, and although I'm bi I've kinda limited my dating pool to other afab people? I've only had 3 relationships and all of them were other trans men or masc nb people? It's not because I don't find trans women or cis men unattractive, but it boils down to would THESE people be comfortable with me, not really how comfortable I am with them. I guess that stems from dysphoria and thinking that if my partner wasn't afab they wouldn't find me to be a true man, and they wouldn't want me because of those reasons. Seeing your perspective is honestly kind of validating, because I've unintentionally put myself in your situation on the opposite end
I think sometimes it's very easy for two or more trans people to trigger each others dysphoria. Sometimes it's hard to watch other people feeling dysphoric without going down that spiral yourself. Sometimes it's hard to be careful about how the self-deprecating sh-t we say might affects others. On the other hand, shared vulnerability can also be a source of strength. No one can support trans people better and knows what they're going through than other trans people. I don't think my assigned "birth gender" makes it harder for me to see trans men as the gender they are -- bc who knows better than me that "birth gender" utterly meaningless? I don't see myself as more of a man than you are. I don't even really identify with the term "amab" or "amab" people as a group -- bc I've never been a man or part of their gender strata. (Really, the term gets me headaches; having to relate myself to "maleness", even indirectly, makes me confused and dysphoric.) My experiences with gender are identical those of other female-aligned enbies, and as far as I can tell "afab" or "amab" doesn't really make any meaningful difference. That being said, I've noticed that many people tend to overuse words like "cute" or "sweet" when complimenting a trans man. I've definitively been guilty of that myself... but then I realized that the thing I thought I had to compliment was when a guy isn't trying to sexually assault people, and how f-cked up everything about that line of thinking really is.
One option if you want to leave a comment for the algorithm is to just say something you don't know where else to say because you don't know who would be interested in your statment or because you don't know who a certain question. An example: Why do people just not like some foods although those foods are safe for them to eat? Why does one person's brain say "No, don't eat that banana!" and another person's brain say "No, don't eat that pineapple!" It would be one thing if this happened to people who are allergic to those things but in all other cases it not only doesn't make sense but may even be dangerous. If your brain vehemently tells you not to eat peaches when peaches are all there is to eat, isn't this something that could lead to a person starving? At least some prehistoric person who'd learned that you shouldn't eat things you don't like because those things are often poisonous, like moldy meat?
I'm a lesbian and I used to feel this way too when dealing with bi-curious girls. Looking back, I guess the excitement of "turning" a bi-curious girl was just me wanting to feel accepted and desired by someone. My thought process was, "This girl who's usually into men wants to do things with me, I must be super special!" and it would make me feel good about myself. Nowadays I wouldn't go near a bi-curious girl lmao, too much uncertainty and unnecessary drama.
Mari O 100% There with you! I got into a pretty heated argument a while ago with a bi curious friend of mine. She was telling me us lesbians are “discriminatory” against bicurious girls bc we don’t wanna give them our time and are missing out. I laughed and told her I HAD given PLENTY of my time to straight girls when I was younger and I’m too old for that shit now. Now I’m happy with my lesbians who really fancy me and know what they’re doing ;)
Gay transdude here. I haven't (at least knowingly) been rejected, even though someone is attracted to me, because I'm trans. I also pass really well. I know my trans guy friends who don't pass have a lot of trouble dating due rejection when they come out to potential suitors as trans, though. So it seems like the phenomenon may have more to do with sexual expectations for women and femme appearing/presenting people. Almost like a kind of misogyny. Mostly I just get fetishized to all heck by cis gay guys, and that's what triggers my dysphoria. They're usually the opposite of off-put when I come out to them, but in a way I find very unattractive anyway, so the end result is similar. As far as liking a certain "type" of person that may or may not include pre-transition or non-passing people, I kind of get it but I kind of don't. I find that my attractions can shift a bit with context. For instance, I love love men with long luscious hair. If I see someone pre-transition with long hair on the street and don't know he's trans, I'm probably not going to be into him. But if he talks to me and mentions he's trans, or I see his dating profile lists he pronouns, I tend to find myself then attracted to him. I think the mistake is in thinking that non-passing pre-transition guys can't be burly and bearded. I have friends who will spend 2+ hours putting on a beard, know plenty of jocky and/or thick pre-transition trans dudes. So I don't think your preferences are transphobic, but maybe you do need to expand who you're expecting is included in those preferences? Granted, it doesn't sound like you've run into a lot of trans guys period, and sussing out pre-transition or non-passing guys can be even harder so... I don't know. Dating while trans is a whole mess anyway.
I think a lot of it is that said trans men don't read as men at first, and a lot of physical attraction is from visual/first impressions. If a straight man thinks you're a lady but you ID as a dude then it makes sense for them not to be into you anymore. If a gay man sees you as a woman, then you correct him and try to hit on him it's not an always easy switch to flip
I'm only 14 months into my transition and I haven't been dating. I'm older (47) and a widower, so I haven't really wanted to date since my husband passed (in 2016). I'm also a gay transguy. I'm with you, I've only ever been with cisguys in the past and while I find some transguys attractive and I'd even give one a shot if we hit it off well enough, but I don't know if I'd enjoy being with them physically or not. I guess I'll find out if/when it happens. I don't plan to go out of my way to find people to date (it's just not a priority to me, and I don't know if I'd even have much luck with guys in my generation).
Yay been wanting this one! Trans guy. But I havnt been on a date yet. I pass well but the only time I hit on a chick who I knew already liked me, I guess she found out through the rumor mill that I was trans and ghosted me.
Loved the video. Since I've been in more left-leaning SJW spaces, I've always been of the mindset of "not wanting to date trans people because they're trans is transphobic", so like many others I was worried when I saw the title of your video. I honestly related to a lot of what you were saying, about fears of hurting others when it comes to sex because of my sexual trauma. Thanks!
i love how you always frame your true teas as a time when we can learn and you can learn, too. It always makes me feel more comfortable and ready to hear new information, and I love your balanced perspective
Date whomever you connect with. This is a hugely personal, subjective thing and sometimes it's really not the place to get all Virgo about it, ya know? Just extend the same respect to other people for their decisions in who they do or do not date. They have their reasons. Every person, out of all 7 billion people on the planet, has reasons for dating or not dating whomever. This Sagittarius says, let people be free to explore. They'll find their way.
Bisexual trans man and Ive been in the just can't do it situation a TON with cis women, never with gay men but I'm mostly straight and very picky about men. So I prefer dating trans women usually. They tend to be chill.
Thanks for this, my teenage daughter asked me recently if it is bigoted to not date trans folk, and if I would date a trans woman. Now I'm an ally, but I am cishet, and honestly grew up pretty fundamentalist Christian, so I kind of muddled my way through an answer akin to, "It is ok to have preferences and what-not because not everyone is attracted to everyone regardless of demographic, though I'd be suspicious of any impulses that are like I wouldn't date a trans X as a blanket statement. I used to just think I wouldn't date a trans woman, and I thought about WHY I felt that way, realized that was transphobic, and over the years learned I would date a trans woman, but I'm not attracted to every woman I meet regardless if they happen to be trans or cis." I think that was an ok start, but I think suggesting this video might be a good follow up.
YOUR POINTS ON THIS WERE AMAZING. I can't say more than other people have. I also love how you described the exact kind of man I'm attracted to lmao, though in my case they're the ones I envy. Thick guys with beards who are twice my height. That type of attraction is not transphobic. You're attracted to trans men for the same reason you're attracted to cis men, and in a way that's honestly really comforting to hear. I don't want to be attracted to for my genitals, or for how I'm so "cute and small" or some wackass shit like that.
The thing is, you’re attracted to who you’re attracted to, and you can’t change that. I’m a lesbian, and I don’t know if I’d date a trans girl, because i haven’t been in a relationship yet and don’t know if s*x would be important for me in a relationship. I have watched p*rn and know I’m definitely not into d*ck, and I never want to get pregnant. I feel bad just for saying that, but you also can’t control your preferences. I also have s*xual trauma and I’m not sure if that has something to do with it, but either way, you shouldn’t have to defend your preferences bc you don’t choose who you’re attracted to, and you can stay in your comfort zone.
Hey Kat! I've been really helped by your videos for years and I think this is a great topic you brought up. Thanks for your honesty and insight, cus this is really real. I'm a trans man who's engaged to a trans woman, it was both our first time dating an opposite-gender trans person and honestly we both at first were nervous about compatibility and sex. The thing that made our relationship wonderful was communication, just complete honesty about how we feel about our bodies, each other's bodies, our dysphoria, everything. For any trans ppl or their cis partners, please talk about this! You have nothing to lose by getting down to brass tacks. Talk about sex, babiesssss 😃
As a nonbinary transmasc person, I think the easiest way to go about this is to talk through it. If you feel like there is any potential in your relationship with a trans person, be honest and upfront, say you haven't experienced it, talk about your own experience as a trans person if you want to. That way, even if things don't work out, it lets the other person know that you weren't ill intentioned, that you were earnestly trying to navigate your way around this. And if the other person isn't willing to put up with that, they will probably back off themselves and save you (and themselves) a lot of time. Basically, talking about it is a win-win situation for me.
Hey Kat, thanks for talking about this topic! Your openness is a breath of fresh air. Trans masc person here, and your thoughts/feelings are completely understandable. You have a good heart, and like what you like! You're not coming from a discriminatory place, and that's what matters. I'm going to go grab a fresh cup of tea now...
Hey Kat, thank you for this. Your new True Tea videos constantly remind me how hard it is to actually live 'leftist politics,' and the feelings that come with trying to live a moral life. Or maybe just trying to live your life. Or a life. I don't want to put too much on you. I've never had that experience of being someone's trial, which sounds like a sad thing -- that you'd wait to see whether the person truly valued you as a human being or not. And that would mean sacrificing what they grew up believing for you, as you probably had to do for yourself. Maybe it's not quite that? Those guys did like you a lot, and maybe it wasn't a whole loss? But it still seems extremely painful. Sorry, I'm trying to understand, but I also don't know if what I'm saying is correct. I'm bad at offering my own vulnerability, especially online, but since you shared: I've never dated a white person. For good reason: I raise white people up to be better than me, and dating a white person, especially a white man, is asking for abuse. I feel I'd fall into this position where I'd keep giving and giving and they'd keep taking -- actually, it sounds like I'd be their trial, being non-white. And I'm attracted to white people too, but I just don't feel like i can fully trust them with my body. Not unless I'm sure they really respect me, on that human level. Which seems hard to find. And when it comes to dating trans men? I have a really good white friend here who has more gender stuff than me, and we recently realized that even though we really cared about each other, they were holding gender stuff from me and I was holding race stuff from them. And when we talked about those things, we felt like the worst, dumbest people, like the other would never believe us and leave us. And we became better friends in the process. I think, I hope: regardless of race, or gender, or disability, or any other marker, if I can be that vulnerable with another person and they can reciprocate that much with me, then I could date anyone. I hope.
Like I know that you're just describing the guys you're attracted to, but it is nice to hear someone gush a little bit over liking guys that look like me (stocky, roughly 6 and a half feet tall, but definitely on the dad bod/cuddly/chub side) Btw you're gorgeous and I honestly love your content even though I only subscribed like 2 days ago
Thank you for this raw and honest talk about desire! I grapple with this a lot myself and this rly helped me learn to think about attraction better and how rationalized openness sometimes still end up hurting both ourselves and others :( i think what you said about exposure to hot ppl is also spot on! Makes me wonder if the solution for imagining new sexual relationships could then rly be smth as crass as just having more diverse actors in porn or other adult media to broaden expectations......
thanks for the tea ~ it makes a lot of sense, seeing as you both understand the pain of being rejected for being trans and the sort of uncertainty that people who end up putting you into that awful position have.
Honestly I find the politicization of personal attractions and preferences problematic. While fetishization is gross, NOT being attracted to group X or Y should not be judged or criticized. Sure, there is often a link between prejudice and preferences (friendship, sexual or romantical) but those are still personal preferences.
I feel like if we can identify that those personal attractions are linked to prejudices (transphobia, fatphobia, racism and anti-Blackness) then we should not write them off as unchangeable (because they’re not, and I know from experience) and do something about it.
Trans man here, and I've been in the situation you've described - specifically with cis men (I'm gay), but it's not a problem I run into when with other trans guys since we tend to be on the same page. (And tbh that's one reason why I prefer dating fellow trans men, since there's already some level of understanding there.) BUT... like you, I also see trans guys a lot less often on dating apps, so when I do get messages on apps it's almost always cis men. I guess we're just super elusive or something??? Anyway, with regards to the whole "first trans man" thing, it's frustrating for the reasons you stated but I also understand your hesitation. If you don't know how it's going to go, you don't want to risk hurting a guy in case it just doesn't end up clicking. But honestly, my recommendation is to be up front about it. That way everybody knows what the deal is and the guy in question can make the decision whether or not he wants to continue with a date knowing that there is some uncertainty there. Speaking from my own experience, it's always been better for me when cis guys who expressed interest in me have been honest about not having any prior experience with trans men, as opposed to saying nothing about that and then out of the blue during a date saying something like "I thought I could deal with the trans thing, but I can't." Which would hurt a whole fucking lot because not once had they given the impression that there was any uncertainty about dating a trans guy or me being their first, so it was always something that seemed to come up out of the blue. But when cis guys approached me for a date and were honest about not having any prior experience with trans men, I could emotionally prepare myself and know that there's a chance that things might not click. And sometimes that would still happen and it'd suck but I at least went in knowing it was a possibility, but the last time it happened it went fine and the guy actually asked me out for a second date! (But at the end of the night I had to decline because at that point I had gotten out of a relationship, and as nice as tgat date was, I realized I still wasn't ready to try dating again for a while, haha.) SO, tl;dr - as a trans guy, the best advice I can give to you is to just be honest about things. Then if you go on a date and it works, awesome! But if it doesn't, then at least the guy went in knowing that was a possibility and could emotionally prepare himself for things to go one way or another. And yeah, it doeen't stop the guy from getting hurt if it doesn't end up working out, which sucks, but there's still a chance that it might. And you never really know which way it's going to go until you go and find out. So if you meet a trans man and you like him and want to try going on a date with him - go for it! Just be up front about your experience (or lack thereof) with trans men first.
For some reason I saw “would I ever date a trans guy” and feared trans guys would be seen as this novelty or a foreign concept. Thank you for not seeing us as that, even though I know you aren’t the type to do that I have seen it too many times to not be expecting it (if that makes sense)
For me the thing is...when you are attracted to men, and you find a man attractive until you find out he is trans, or until you imagine sex or dating or romance, and then you no longer have the attraction, how does it make a trans man (read: me) feel? That you don't truly see him as male. Why does this hurt? It's nobody's fault. You can't help what your mind, heart, or body respond to. Maybe what's why it hurts. Because the truth hurts. I have given up on finding someone, fwiw. Maybe I'm just an ugly person regardless of being trans. Edited for clarity that this is my perspective and not a blanket statement.
As a slightly bi-curious woman, I get what you're saying. I've definitely met women who I thought were extremely attractive, but I just don't know if that feeling would translate into sexual attraction/enjoying sex with them. I'd like to figure this out at some point, but I don't know how, since I would feel awful about treating another person as some "experiment", especially if the conclusion would end up being "nope, not actually into women after all".
Honestly, if you are already trying to be considerate of their feelings without even dating one, that seems to be a good sign imo. Plus, you already have insight into the trans experience, and while every trans person is unique and transmen and transwomen face different struggles, (and please tell me if the following is wrong of me to think) there's probably at least some common ground, maybe with dating in a mainly cis scene or some shared hardships. But I say that as a cis lesbian who has dated trans girls and has 100% accidentally hurt them in the past because I simply had no insight into struggles they face. A lot of the things that would trigger dysphoria were just confusing to me and I didn't understand what was happening at all. I'm a lot better educated now, and just the small amount I've learned has helped me a ton. If things don't work out nowadays, it's usually because of distance and work/college schedules. (I'm clingy, is what I'm saying.)
I feel like I've really hit a wall with the dating world. I'm a trans man and bi, but I primarily date women and I find it soooooo hard to find women who aren't just experimenting or totally shallow. I find it really hard to not get hit with the "If only you weren't trans" shizzzz, but nothing you said I would find problematic. You have every right to having preferences, just as much as anyone. I wish that more women were open to searching outside the box and could let themselves try out new things. I mean in order to really see what the world is like it's better to try new things lol. I feel like I can't even have preferences though because of how small the dating pool feels for trans men, and it stings hearing the same thing said over and over. You just keep doing you though and keep living in honesty. Also I've really been enjoying your content lately you are awesome.
personally as a trans man i feel very similarly about the trans men I'M attracted to. they tend to align with the cis men im attracted to, although these men tend to be closer to androgynous than "traditionally masculine" (whatever that means.) i dont have much dating experience, especially since being very early into my HRT transition i dont yet feel comfortable putting myself out there, but i did have an experience when first dating my last ex that made me uncomfortable. i remember really early into the relationship he expressed apprehension around the idea of me potentially going on testosterone in the ambiguous future. This was a guy who knew little to nothing about trans people and transitioning and someone who hadnt been in a relationship with a man before. it really hurt me but i was able to tell him that if this is something he couldnt support that the relationship wouldnt work out, since transitioning was much more important to me than being in a relationship. he expressed that his fear was that T would change who i am as a person, and when i assured him that this wouldnt be the case he seemed to be more comfortable with the idea. needless to say this relationship didnt work out in the end, but i think that it will be the last time that i will walk a man through accepting my gender!
As a trans man, I completely respect and even relate to what you said. I personally have never had an issue attracting or maintaining relationships with straight cis women but, to your point, am very much cis passing. As a straight trans man, I am hesitant about dating trans women. I have not closed myself off to the idea entirely but, as shitty as it might sound, am attracted to extremely feminine features/characteristics that most trans women (that I have met and have open shared their trans status) do not possess (to the extent of gaining my attraction). If I just so happen to meet someone, gain attraction and then learn that they are trans, I will certainly explore the idea.
That honestly makes a lot of sense and I get where you are coming from; I had a different but still similar experience has a trans masc person interested in men (though now I identify as bi) as in I wasn't sure if I'd be willing to date another trans man/trans masc because I honestly wouldn't have been able to deal with someone else's dysphoria whilst already having to deal with mine, and at the time, it was pretty bad. Since I've started medically transitioning though I feel a lot more at peace with my body and hopefully can get top surgery next year and I feel the complete opposite way--I think I'd rather date a trans person because at least then they'd understand what I go through on a daily basis, and we could explore both of our societally different bodies privately, and it'd be easier than to explain my dysphoria (which is sometimes non-sensical) to a cis person. My reasons are/were very different than yours but I completely get where you are coming from and I hope if you do ever go out with a trans men that it goes well for the both of you. x thank you for another great true tea video! I started watching your channel recently and I am enjoying your videos a lot :)
I frequently date trans men and my two longest relationships, including my current one, have been with trans men. I have found that I'm often the first trans woman that trans dudes have been interested in, parallel to your experiences of being cis men's first. I think knowing that you wouldn't want to hurt someone by being theoretically into them and then ultimately unable to 'follow through' so to speak on your mutual attraction is more important than pushing yourself to seek trans dudes to prove a point to yourself or anyone else. I've been in that situation with trans men, and Ive got to say it hurts even worse when it comes from another trans person.
My experiences analogous to yours were kind of the opposite, actually! I've been out and presenting as transmasc and gay for half a decade now, and only recently have I realized that I can get with gay men. For too long I only pursued bi/pan men, and the occasional straight guy. When a certain gay man approached me on Grindr as a potential play partner a few months ago, I kept feeling guilty for some reason, like that he'd discover that I wasn't "man enough" for him. Nope, turns out that he's very into my HRT-free, GRS-free self and that I'm just his type (cute and nerdy) like the other guys he plays with. While I try not to seek men's approval as my only form of gender affirmation, it's a good reminder that I can be a part of mutual attraction. It's not hurtful to hear that the cis and trans men that you're into look masculine and tough. So many people are attracted to masculinity and toughness, and like Hans said in the comments, that's a normal thing that you have a type regardless of cisness or transness. I know just as many straight women and gay men who's type is the sweet and pretty boys, regardless of cisness or transness. It's very kind and considerate of you to not want to put trans men in an uncomfortable position, too.
I’m a trans man, and I’ve definitely felt the “oh I’d totally be into you if you weren’t trans” thing, and it sucks. I’ve mostly gotten it from straight women and gay men and it hurts every time. Bi folks tend to be a a safer bet for me, but even then :/
Lance Sams That means they aren’t right for you. Someone who truly loves you will come alone just hang in there it’ll happen !!💞
as a trans guy ive come across this. semi-related, bi folks are great til they reveal they prefer girls after they already displayed attraction towards you then its a bit like 🔍
I'm sorry to hear that you had to go through that. I hope you find someone who is right for you one day.
I can't really speak from my own experiences because I don't date people,,,, but I assume it's genitals
While there are people who are fine dating trans people who were assigned at birth outside of their preference, I could definitely see some not being able to get past it
Are there any trans people out there who have gotten bottom surgery and have different experiences?
Sorry to hear, I hope you find someone
Hey I'm a trans man! I don't think there's anything wrong with what you said. At first I was worried that you would say something like "most trans men are too feminine for me" or "it's hard for me to see them as fully masculine." But it seems like rather than considering trans men to not be men, you have a specific type that applies to both cis and trans men, and it's more common for you to encounter cis men in the first place.
As for my own experience, I have definitely been involved with people (mostly cis guys) who would be initially interested in me and then either lose interest when they learn I'm trans, or realize that being involved with a trans guy was not what they had expected. For example, they might be initially attracted to my body or the idea of it, and then it would sink in that they would actually be involved with a guy and be seen as gay by other people. There was one cis guy who I got along with really well and who was really into me sexually, but then when we met and went on a date, he wouldn't hold hands with me in public. Then he cut things off immediately afterward.
A lot of cis guys go into a relationship with a trans guy early in transition expecting it to be like dating a quirky girl, and then when the guy starts passing or they themself are read as gay, they get cold feet. Which is obviously really hurtful. Imo they should think in depth about how their attraction works and do some research before getting involved with trans people in the first place.
I haven't had as many negative experiences with cis women because they don't tend to be as forward as cis guys when it comes to dating in general. So if a cis girl wasn't sure about me, she probably wouldn't make the first move in the first place. My most successful dating experiences have been with bi, pan, and trans people because there isn't usually much of a learning curve.
For you, I think it's considerate not to get involved with someone unless you're confident that them being trans would not be confusing or difficult for you. But some of that hesitation may also just be a fear of doing something wrong in a situation you're unfamiliar with. So I would say that if you meet a meaty bearded trans guy who's a total top and you're both into each other, it may be good to just go for it!
I really agree with and appreciate what you just said❤️ great way to lay it out!
@@MrNicoleCherie Thank you so much! I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has had a similar experience.
I definitely feel that, though in a different way. I'm a trans woman and I've had (mostly straight) guys who would show me lots of love and display their attraction in private but in public they get cold with me. It really makes me feel like I don't pass or that I'm not good enough for them. I've had them get angry at me if I talk to them about it. Luckily they've never gotten physical, but I've definitely feared for my safety. This has only happened with straight guys, both ones who'd never dated a trans woman before and ones who've told me they had "experience" with trans women. It's why I mostly date bisexual men. They're often less anxious, ashamed and not very sensitive to other's judgement of them. Dating cis straight guys can be very scary.
It's a different experience, but I'd say they're in the same lane.
i find this totally relatable! I am pre-T, and i have had expirence with cis men and it is scary. I think they like the idea of me being less feminine but being assigned female at birth (low key fetishistic), and when i express discomfort in my chest and genitals they are confused no matter how much i explain and start getting awkward when i talk about pursuing a physical transition. its very sad as i am very attracted to masculine people and its easier to find cis men than trans men in my area and in general, only due to the fact most of them [cis men] are very uneducated about trans people.
@@mikelmontoya2965 I didn't. I never date people who identify as not being attracted to men. The guy I went on that date with initially told me he was bi. The other guys were basically bicurious but not experienced with trans guys at all.
It's easy to say, "Don't knock it until you try it." But dating and relationships aren't trying a new Starbucks drink. It's far more complex.
That being said, "GO FOR IT KAT! GET YOUR BACK CRACKED!"
But really... maybe I don't understand because I'm bi. Imagine that a guy is on HRT for 1/2 years and passes - what could be so different about having sex with him or with any other guy?
@@bernardomorais8490 a lot to strictly gay/lesbain and striaght people aren't comfortable with certain geentalia, often times which we've been told out whole lives that we should HAVE to like.. Lots of times there's trauma connected. It's not a simple matter of how far a transition is or anything.
@@nareushardin8990i get it, the trans community doesn't want anybody to have sex with people they might not be comfortable with. But sometimes it can be frustrating when lesbians/gays express this thought when they are not being asked to, it can trigger immense dysphoria bc genitalia is often something that can't be changed. For instance, I posted some pics on Instagram the other day and this gay guy commented "he's cute but I wouldn't have courage to go down on a pussy". And when we complain about this type of harrasment, cis people sometimes gaslight us saying that we are trying to force them into fucking us (nobody is forcing anyone, just mind your own business)
@@bernardomorais8490 what I consider the biggest problem here is that it's love we are talking about. A relationship is always an extremely taxing ordeal, and by doing something out of ones comfort zone can be very risky I think, there's a lot of feelings involved. But then again I don't know, and haven't tried it my self, etcetera^^
kat: "okay time for a spicy and controversial opinion"
kat: explains she wants to be a decent human being
Why are these half of the RUclipsrs that I'm following??
I know what you mean with the "attracted to trans men who are like the cis men you're attracted to" part cos like... that's good actually imo? That means there's not much of a distinction in your mind between different men right? It's gonna be the same regardless - some people like more feminine men, some people like more masculine men, etc etc. If it was a case of "trans men who ~look like men~" it treads on transphobic territory and even if that's true for an individual its one of those things that really doesn't need to be said cos weeee know aha
Like there's plenty of trans men who look cis who wouldn't fit your categories. It might be that less trans men are likely to fit your preferences, but your preference isn't exclusionary of trans men and it doesn't put them down as men either!
(The hesitance is understandable, especially with your experience!! Although we're not so vulnerable that we couldn't take a misunderstanding you know, it's something that sucks but if the other person is at least supportive and understanding of the situation and emotions there's not much to do with that aha)
I agree! I'm on HRT for a while and I pass pretty well - but i'm a flamboyant twink and 100% not what she would be attracted to. At the same time I have friends with even less HRT time than me that would fit the bill - they are super masc, love their beards, etc
I think that's normal to have a "type", it would only be transphobic if it was something along the lines of "trans men are not my type, period"
Another trans guy here! You basically said everything I was gonna say lmao
I really don’t like the “looking cis” terminology. I understand phrases like passing and stuff need to exist because they describe something. But I just feel like it’s such cis centric language. I’m trans and I pass 100% of the time and generally am stealth even. But I wouldn’t describe myself as “cis looking” I’m trans, I look trans because that’s who I am. People have said to me “oh I never would have known” which pisses me off so much. Do all trans people look the same? What does this really even mean, you know?
Bernardo Morais explain how it’s transphobic for not wanting to date trans people?
@@whatsername465 it means people are going to assume you're cis - I don't like the language particularly either, but for the sake of being succinct I'm describing the thought process of "passing" with the most basic description. I could say "looks cis" or I could say "looks like what we expect cis men to look like, thus under the spectre of cisnormativity is considered to pass as a man, and as there are many ways to look cis this is effectively short hand for 'not typically clocked' - which of course does not make a man less of a man, but in the framing of this discussion I'm trans and Kat is trans and we both understand this, and no doubt anyone coming to the table with an informed opinion also understands basic 101 trans stuff, so elaborating all of this might be a strange tangent--"
Like I don't disagree but it's also exhausting to have to qualify everything with an explanatory paragraph sjsjfbs so forgive me for that
anime hair Kat
anime hair Kat
u142 uWu
Cursed comment and cursed reply. I love it.
why do so many trans girls i know like anime girls/ sorta look like them 🤔
@@buppo89 it's a part of the culture.
@@buppo89 Because trans catgirls are the future
There was a guy in my sexual anthropology class that I was attracted to and he eventually asked me out. On the first date I found out he was Trans. As a gay man, I felt super confused and weird. It took me a while to realize that I was attracted to him because he WAS a man. The weight just lifted off my shoulders. 💁🏼♂️❤️✌🏻
Why would that be confusing? You're attracted to guys, he's a guy, its extremely standard and expected...
@@facelessdroneMaybe because trans men are actually women?
@@facelessdroneI don't think there's anything wrong with being honest about grappling with this, let's applaud people for being open and improving themselves. Not shame them for not "knowing better" in the first place.
I was/am going through a situation like you described. Well, perhaps the reversed?
Anyways, I’m non-binary (amab) And am attracted to men. I matched with a trans guy on okcupid. Tbh, at the time I was just swiping on initial attraction so I didn’t realize he was trans. Once we matched I read his profile and had that same thought. “Idk if I could date/have sex with/what have you a trans man.”
I put my initial hesitations to the side and decided to get to know him. He’s funny, we are in to a lot of the same things, and obviously I think he’s attractive.
The time comes for us to set up a date and I decided to just be completely and totally honest with him. I told him I had never dated a trans guy before, and even though we clicked really well I didn’t want to build his hopes up and then come to find out I couldn’t do it.
I left the ball in his court and told him I only wanted to go on the date if he was comfortable with that. With the fact we might go out and have a really good time, but me not being able to get past him being trans.
He said he was okay with that and so we went on our date. Things worked out for us. We’ve been dating for a month now and things seem to be going rather well.
I think that’s the key. Just being completely honest with how you are feeling, your concerns, and all that jazz. Let them make the decision if they are comfortable with putting themselves in that position and going from there.
I'm also non-binary amab and attracted to men! I have no doubt though I'd be ok dating a trans guy.
It’s sad that people within our own community would reject another trans person solely on the basis of them being trans or in this case entertain the thought. The fact that this guy said yes to going on a date with you after you spoke to him like that is sad, he deserves better.
mcrx604 so I should have kept my reservations to myself? Instead of being open and honest? I didn’t say “idk if I can get over you being trans.” The conversation was much more than just that. I was just using the words Kat used in her video. We spent about an hour on the phone discussing BOTH of our reservations. I’m a sex worker. He knew this at that time. I also didn’t want him to continue in a relationship unless he was comfortable with that because I’m not going to stop sex work because I’m in a relationship, and that’s something not everyone is comfortable with. We spoke about boundaries, hard noes, and possibilities.
Because my thought process is that I want both partners going in knowing some boundaries and having some of an understanding of what each other’s wants and needs are. And we’ve continued to have conversations about what each other is comfortable with. And it’s a two way street. He’s never dated a non binary person. He didn’t know things about me. What parts of my body my dysphoria centers around, or the language that causes me dysphoria.
We BOTH agreed that having these conversation, and being completely open about where each other’s comforts lie was a much better way of navigating each other’s identities and uncertainties than waiting for something to happen and then it being a more painful problem we have to deal with.
@@TheSvnoyi as a trans guy: I think you did the right thing! Honesty is essential if you want a relationship to go anywhere. That goes for both trans stuff and stuff that has nothing to do with being trans. So it's a good note to start on.
I've had a weird experience as a pre-hormones trans dude who is only male attracted. I've been a lot of straight guys "first time" and despite them being nice people it made me extremely uncomfortable worrying that they subconsciously just are sexually attracted to me as female in their mind. I made up a weird rule where I wouldn't date a cis man unless he had been sexual with another cis man. It's fucked but it was the only way I could feel secure that I wasn't a straight mans exception.
Anyways lol my bf now is cis and gay so im good
I had the same experience a lot pre-t
im pre-T and ive had this same thing happen to me. I've legitimately had cis men ive dated who have behind my back disregard my identity and say "i dont see him that way". Its hurtful to wonder if they're only attracted to /me being AFAB
As a gay trans man... SAME
@@commierants "Its hurtful to wonder if they're only attracted to the assigned female at birth part."
It is very weird reading all these comments. So what if he likes your female at birth part? Would it be better for you if he hated that about you? No one is defining what is real the goal of dating. Are all of you just looking for one night stands rather then a life long relationship, or just adding a notch to your bed post? I just don't get life anymore. A round peg used to fit in a round hole. A man and a woman fell in love and would start a family...that was the old days. Now everyone has their genitals cut up and inverted in a way to find meaning a pleasure in life.
sablechicken shut up freak.
Honestly as a trans masc person I think you handled this really compassionately, sincerely and well. You're honest with your reasons and they're reasons that make sense and come from a place of well meaning and personal taste and that's completely okay.
As a trans guy, I don’t think it’s transphobic to only like macho manly men (trans or cis). Like I have types of guys I go after too! I feel like we need to all understand is that all us fellas can take so many shapes and sizes and faces. I’m a very dainty feminine trans guy but I’m still super proud of it. Although I’m gay, girls still find me attractive because their type of guy is a little flamboyant. Ain’t no shame
im a straight trans girl and i love a cheeky bit of femininity and twinkiness in a guy
kaiyodei any guy, i find skinny guys who don’t feel the need to be masculine attractive
I'm a transguy and I've gotten the "I just can't do it" from gay men NUMEROUS times. They're afraid they'll lose their "gay card" or whtvr. I think it's a cisguy thing because I've never really had it from straight women. The weirdness dating women comes in when you're acting as their stepping stone from straight to bi lmfao
can confirm, and it's always such a great time hearing them backpedal and act like they didn't just say they don't think of you as what you are. But they don't.
I'm a queer guy, but I really don't get the penis obsession going around the gay community. Like... penises are great, yes, but... vaginas are also great, right? So why rejecting a hot/cute guy just because he has one?
To be honest, I've never been intimate with a trans guy, but I definitely think there're plenty of very attractive trans guys and I'd have no problem dating or fucking one, even if it's something I've never done before. I'm even looking forward to doing it for the first time lol
I feel you on this. Many women have hit on me and then at some point they throw in there "I've been kind of bicurious lately..." I hate the feeling of being someone's bisexual experiment.
I've seen it in another thread on this comment section and uh. Can we please condemn how cis people wield their transphobia withou being biohobic and misogynistic by casually putting bi women under the bus please? We gain nothing and can learn more like a lot by not heaping more hatred on an already vulnerable group. Bi women go through unique pressures that require more thought than commenters are exhibiting. Of course OF COURSE I'm mad that those bi women didn't know anything n in turn were shitty and I say this as anothe transgender individual you should condemn it without reservation. But it's kind of hard to see that for multiple people commenting this can't be done with more awareness of how you might sound. Know yourselves...... and make your point without being a biphobe lol. Trans bi women exist
Those women liked you because they were bi and if they were transphobic towards you it cannot rest solely on their being bisexual... You might be misunderstanding what bisexuality is. Please fix yourself and have more empathy for people
To make my point painfully clear: bi women are not fake/liar heterosexuals who specialize in deceit. Nor are they lesser versions of wlw. Nor are they confused. Nor do they play with the binary like a child or perpetuate it stubbornly & violently the way cishets do. Insinuating that they are is a dangerous thing. And you need to stop.
Trans man here. I think you summed up perfectly my position when it comes to dating trans women. I don’t often see trans women I’m actually attracted to. When that does happen, I’m worried about wasting her time if it turns out I’m not into it.
But my general dating experience has been... well, basically, I haven’t had a gf since I started T 4 and s half years ago. Part of that is related to not being everyone’s cup of tea. The other part of that is I often don’t know where to look to date. I’ve had little to no luck with dating apps. And queer spaces... They’re honestly just not for me. The ones I’ve been in are just too... Idk... like either it’s a very structured support group or it’s a club. Neither of those things are for me. So it’s like... where do I go to find a date? I have no idea. And I know I can’t be the only trans guy in this boat.
+
I’m a trans guy and I wouldn’t date a trans guy. Or a cis guy. Or anyone. I’m aro ace lmao.
No but fr you handled this very tricky topic beautifully and where able to provide a unique perspective that people honestly need. So thanks 🙏
high five from a fellow aro ace 👏
@@afirewasinmyhead same my dudes
Same lol. These conversations about dating make me feel wierd tbh.
statistically you'd have to date 200 men before one was trans and that just sounds exhausting. Granted transpeople probably meet a hell of a lot more transpeople in their lives than cisgenered folk do but still, it's gotta be less than 1 in 10 even in that case. I don't think whether someone has or hasn't dated a trans person in the past really makes a difference, it's how they react when the opportunity arises that matters.
1 in 200? That sounds super official and I'd definitely trust Google not to pull any coherent results if I put that in, just wondering if there's a study and an author u read that that refers to? No pressure. Just kinda curious 🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈💚💛💜💗💗💜💛💛💚💛💜💗
statistically you would have to date way more men before finding a transmen.
*trans people
*trans man
Hello, trans man here. I have to say I was very worried going into this video, because unfortunately it's been a very common experience for me to hear straight/bi trans women state very clearly that they would never consider dating a trans man. Now I mean, I hear that from cis people a lot of the time - but it hurts more from trans women because it feels like they should know what that's like, you know? Hell, I remember a while ago reading an article by a trans woman who was frustrated at how cis men wouldn't date her, but even said in the article that she'd never date a trans man. And that hurts in a way that I can't really express well - one would think that if someone knows what it's like to be rejected for being trans, or not even be considered for being trans, they wouldn't do it to other people, but sadly, it seems that's not the case.
Anyway, long lead in, sorry, but I have to say I breathed a huge sigh of relief as I got further into your video. I think you're coming from a really reasonable place. The unsurety and the fear of hurting someone the way you've been hurt is so real. The thing that really made me feel better was when you mentioned - the trans men you've been attracted to are "your type", because that's legit, right? Some of us have types! It makes sense that a trans guy would have to match what you like in a man for you to be into him. And while I definitely get not being sure about actually "going there", the fact you're open to it at all makes me feel a lot better.
Because it's the openness that makes or breaks it for me - I don't mind if someone's not into me specifically. I don't mind if someone has never been into a trans guy so far. But someone not even considering letting themselves be into me or other trans men *just because I'm trans* just sucks so hard. That's what hurts for me, when people won't even let themselves be open to the possibility.
Omg! This. I feel exactly the same way.
You put it really well! When it comes to trans women not liking trans men, I've also seen it on the flip side, with trans women dating trans men but calling themselves lesbians because they like anyone who isn't a cis man, which seems really transphobic to me.
I'm a trans woman & I would date a trans man for sure I just haven't ever met any that are my particular sorts of "type" yet
I am surprised bi women said that to you?
I can understand why straight women might have certain limitations and a more cis heteronormative outlook to sex and dating but I thought bi women who are members of LGBTQ community and attracted to more than one genders are beyond those limitations?
No one is obligated to be with you. I'm sorry that's so hard to accept.
Hey Kat a trans masc fan here to send love xx
Regarding the issue of never meeting a trans guy you were attracted to before recently, I just wanted to say that that's completely understandable. Before I went to college, there were not even many trans masc people I got along with! Now, many of my friends are trans. It was never enough for me just to have 'transness' in common with somebody.
There's also the fact that trans men are pretty rare. It's a very tiny minority.
It'Ss a vVeRyY tIiInNnY nMmiInoOritTyY 😣
I relate so much on the OKC thing. With the exception of one person, everyone I talked to (despite my oddly specific profile) has been SO outside my own world it's felt rather awkward to attempt to either go more into theirs or visa versa. Call me old fashioned but meeting people IRL at places you already go for interests you already have seems to have better long term outcomes.
I would date a trans man as long as he had a job
I'll be getting a job very soon
Even though I'm a young trans masc, I have never liked the idea of being someone's first trans guy. It has always turned me off because I rather date someone who is confident in their attraction and love for me. Someone who knows exactly what they want and doesn't need help with figuring out with what exactly they want ya know? Like, I'm attracted to both women and men (and enbies) and I'll date a trans woman and or trans man because I know I'm attracted to them, confident in my attraction to them and I don't really care about what's in their pants because well, I like both of the pipework. My only problem is that I'm an awkward piece of crap who has a hard time talking to people that they like but I'm working on that
So, I'm a strictly gay man (I've tried dating women, cis and trans, and I cannot do it), and I'm currently dating a trans man -- and I'm gonna be honest, I feel more along the lines of what contrapoints states in her video (titled "Are Tr*ps Gay") where... like, for me, there is a BIG difference between a masculine vagina and a feminine vagina, and a masculine penis and a feminine penis. And I only like the former in each set. I'm into the masculine version of each, but I cannot get into the feminine version of each, because it just literally is so, so different. Most of the time, I don't even think of my bf as a trans guy in the sense that he's somehow Different from cis men, because his body parts are male and masculine even though they're not the same as a cis guy's (currently, since, I mean, that's another thing -- many trans ppl out there have had genital surgery). So it's a complicated one. But I do feel like genitalia, at least, isn't always what we think it's gonna be like.
Toy Carousel Honest question: how is masc penis or vagina different from fem p/v? I hear about that a lot but I’ve never had that experience irl
@@user-ol8wo1cl1o Yeah, contrapoints breaks it down really well, and while not everyone is going to experience sex the same way, I just personally tend to feel similarly to how contrapoints describes it, wrt the genitalia specifically!
Thank you both for the responses. I’ll check it out!
As a cis lesbian dating a trans woman, I have to agree. It's just different.
Very well said!
I literally hear this convo start playing in my head when i worry about dating someone outside my preferences, "im so scared of making THEM feel like an experiment, in order to find out if i like them/ enjoy being with someone new/trying something new, it requires a first time, but iv BEEN a first time for people so often that i worry about them feeling an ounce of what iv went through. I want to be with you but im so scared of being rejected/ making someone else who is trans feel rejected."
The 'problematic' way to go about this complex topic is when someone cis puts aside their preferences, and then they ASSUME youre going to try and jump through hoops to 'make up' for what they have denied themselves by choosing to be with you, while they do very little to learn how to be with someone who isnt cis. Its a two way street. Trans people have been learning how to conform to CisHetero norms of dating/ sex, while the cis people we date often dont learn how to be better at accommodating Trans people 50/50 and meeting half way WITH ENTHUSIASM.
And when two trans people try and date sometimes its a whole song and dance of trying not to hurt each other. Jeeze being trans is needlessly complicated sometimes lmao
i'm a gay trans man and it's actually really comforting to hear someone say that their attraction to trans men has the same criteria as their attraction to cis men -- it means you see us as men and hold us to the same standards.
i've been a cis guy's "bi-curious exception" before and it absolutely does suck, but ultimately an adult in dating situations has to be ready for rejection. i'm glad i've experienced the rejections i have, because it's helped me to develop a sense of what I'M comfortable with in a developing potential relationship. it has helped me learn not to get in too deep too fast with people, and to see dating as a lighthearted thing. if it works out, great! if not, there's a lot of other things in life to spend time doing lol.
i myself was hesitant to date other trans guys when i was younger, because of a few factors. first off, i felt like it would remind me of my own dysphoria and "trans issues" constantly. now that i'm secure in myself, the idea of dating a trans guy is highly appealing to me, because i'm frankly tired of the baggage that a lot of cis men seem to come with lol.
but it's challenging to meet trans people in the first place since a lot of us tend to stay out of the spotlight for fear of backlash. so it's even more challenging to meet another trans guy i'm attracted to in the full scope if who he is as a person. i've seen many a trans guy i'm attracted to physically, but getting to know someone is a whole other ballpark.
great video, Kat! love thinking about this stuff and exercising my brain muscles. 💖
And now the dating applications of transmen sending Kat Blaque esclates
I'm ready to send mines in LOL
I'm a cis gay guy and if u cool I would date u
Fuck no. Why? What about this video made you think that would happen. She blatantly disrespected us litterally the entire time.
* trans men
I'm the first to admit I have a super short attention span but your delivery style is so compelling I always end up watching to the end. ❤️
I don't think you'd be unable to work through that hesitation. If he looked like the dudes you usually like.
But there's a big difference between "I haven't had an opportunity," and "I am not open to this at all."
And don't apologize for liking dad bods with beards xD that's not a cis-exclusive thing.
Trans dudes can totally be big ol' dad's.
If you approach any future trans guys with that honesty--and I'm only guessing that you would--you would probably be able to work out any issues you might have in that relationship :3
I had the same feelings years ago especially when I first transitioned. Later on I made the decision that what I was doing was excluding someone who could be worth everything someday just based on the unknown.
I let my guard down, met a guy and almost two years later have never looked back. He is the love of my life ❤️ as long as anyone is being transparent in what they are or are not willing to go through or experience with one another, no one should be disrespected 😊 love is love ❤️
I'm transmasc and non-binary, and I'm in the position where I really want to meet and date other people like me. I have historically only dated cis men, and that was okay to an extent, but I want to actually meet people more like me. I get your reasoning though, and honestly I think I have had the same worries previously. At this point though, I think I've worn out my enjoyment of dating cis men and would rather meet other people with similar experiences to mine. I just wish more of them existed in the circles that I run with (marching band and education)
@@MyNontraditionalLife so I identify as non-binary, but I lean more towards masculine. I was assigned female at birth and currently present myself as mostly masculine. I use both non-binary and transmasc to describe myself because, while I don't fit into the traditional gender binary, I do lean masculine in how I identify and present. Hope that explanation helps!
Kat! Another Trans Guy here says thank you 🙏🏼 Thank you for caring, being vulnerable, thinking about it thoroughly and sharing - it made a big difference to me today. What you are saying really prioritizes the emotional safety of us trans men out there and I really appreciate you for being a participant in this conversation who is here to protect the safety of trans people - not someone here just to defend their beliefs/dismiss the conversation entirely for the sole purpose of appearing non-discriminatory. Your intellectual and emotional labor doesn’t go unseen - it made me really connect with you and your thoughts, so thank you again. ❤️
In a future video if you’re interested I would love to hear what you have to say to our non-binary siblings
the whole would I date a trans person is something I see on a lot of channels, and as a trans individual myself all I gotta say is yes, if your cis passing you get more attention and cis people feel more comfy with you. NOT ALL OF THEM, but a large amount. As for what you as an individual are attracted to, everyone has a type, everyone has a flavor, that being said all I would advise anyone dating is wether you think someones a 10 or not, or perfectly fits what you find attractive normally. Talk to em, see if you gel/vibe well, because sometimes if you ask people their type, their partner doesn't look it at all. But the way they mesh, is perfect symytry. I'd say just be open for any nice guys that say hi and see where it goes. ^^
Capricorn transman, who recently figured out that I am very much gynephilic even though I've primarily been in relationships with cis women. I'm attracted to femininity regardless of the package but that has definitely been something easier for me to express the further I've gone through transitioning. Heard your nerves a bit in the beginning, but I think you did great. You obviously wanted to make sure you didn't "Virgo foot in the mouth" this topic, lol.
Anyways, I feel being open and honest about expectations, needs and desires with one another, is something that needs to be addressed up front. Especially, when it's unfamiliar territory such as whether or not you are going to date outside your comfort zone ( for lack of a better phrase). I mean I don't really see it as being any different than sleeping with a new partner, you take time to learn how their body works...idk... I might be a little to eager to give things a try sometimes when I'm attracted to someone to put that much thought into it in the moment. 😂😂😂
I feel you on being gynophilic. For me that means being attaracted to all feminine women (including trans women, oubviously) and then only twinks when it comes to guys. I'm a trans guy btw. What kind of guys are you attracted to I'm curious why you use the word gynophilic.
@@rez4998 Gynephilic means attracted to women (not general feminine behaviour) and he didn't mention men, so I don't know why you would assume he's attracted to them. Like it's OK if you use the word but also like twinks, but that's not what most people mean when they say it
@Rez Marks I used specifically gynephillic because as far as I have noticed my attraction has been primarily towards women (cis and female identifying). However, I won't deny that I have some attraction to feminine behavior in men and gender fluid individuals which I guess would make me a bit femmephillic 😏. Look I'm an artist I love femininity in all forms but my own (rimshot).
@@cgg2621 oh dang aell i need a word for being attracted to femininity regardless of gender then. Maybe femsexual?
i feel this whole video really hard as a gay trans man honestly! especially as a gay bear who is primarily into bears. there arent a huge number of us trans bears out there! i really haven't encountered another trans bear that was actually a viable dating option, and sometimes i have that moment of self-doubt about internalized shit but at the end of the day, just like you say, i dont know what it would be like! and the opportunity doesn't come up often enough for it to be something i've explored much yet. youre definitely not alone in this weird situation
also re: people who "just cant do it" ive encountered this a few times on hookup apps, and ive also enountered the gross-feeling Dude Who Says He's Super Into You And Will Wax Poetic About Everything He Wants To Do To You And Then When You Actually Hook Up There Are About 1.2 Seconds Between Him Cumming And Him Putting His Clothes Back On To Leave
also i love this hair
Charly Kelley the amount of self hatred in this comment is sad and quite frankly pathetic. If you don’t see other trans men as men and “don’t know what it would be like!” - I can only imagine how you feel about yourself. How miserable must it be to live that way? It would “be like” .. dating a man. Because trans men (shocker) are men. This is the shit I expect for hear from cis people not my trans brothers, but I’ve seen it before and am disappointed but not surprised. So sad how we can’t even be united in our own community. Obviously date who you want but unpack this internalized shit for your own good, seriously.
@@whatsername465 I'm not sure thats what he said. You might be misinterpreting
im fine with being rejected or for people not be attracted to me, just dont make it about my identity. That's my main thought on it
I think people psyche themselves out about these things, asking "would I date a ___", myself included, and get all worried about the bedroom. Just gotta let shit happen organically and not get your hopes up. The organic bit rly speaks to me
TulyMoody +
The most interesting part of the video for me was when you talked about online dating and how it's bringing people from different worlds, never heard it expressed that way before and it was perfect.
"the kind of man who can throw me across the room" fucking RELATABLE. I've always thought it would be easier to be in a relationship with someone who's also trans but it's also like, my preference is for people taller than me and I'm... pretty tall already!
Fair enough! My girlfriend is also trans and 6' tall. I'm 5'8, a kickboxer, muscular, and 180. Be patient. My girlfriend doesnt care about height though, but we have a lot in common and get on really well.
I'd have a thing for women that could do this lol
I don't think who you date should be intellectuallised. That sphere, I think, must be kept true to ones heart. However if the person is nice you can always spend time as friends. And see what happens.
I'm sipping a grounding herbal blend 🍵
Hey Kat, so I'm a tw and I was in yr situation until I met my bf and the end of last year.
Until we had dated and became intimate I had zero intimate experience with AFAB people. I was really nervous about not being able to "hang". But I was honest about it right away. And he was in the same boat. Our first time was a really transformative, sexy, totally pleasurable moment for us. We took time to learn each other and I really wanted to dive into him so freely and completely - it just clicked.
Now it's almost a year later and honestly... I truly have never been happier. Because his heart has become my home 🌱
Trans man who had the "someone attracted to you but couldn't do it" situation happen & can confirm it is excruciating. It's difficult because I would rather not be someone's First Trans Man because of that bad experience but if they've dated multiple trans men I start to wonder if I'm a fetish and they see me as an exception to my gender.
Welp, I'm exposing my insecurities in public. Hi internet.
@Timothy Young thanks I grew it myself
As a cis-passing trans male who is straight, I relate so much to your experiences with dating and the disappointments that come along with those who 'just cant do it' even though a strong attraction and connection is there. It does suck but its important to be patient, understanding and take things slow w/someone who still allows themself to date and get to know you for you as well as vice versa. Transparency, communication and comprehension is key. If they ultimately decide they don't know how to deal or don't want to deal, I've learned to not take it personally and just accept its more of a 'them' problem than a 'me' problem and there's nothing I can do about it. Their loss honestly. Clicked on your video bc i thought you were cis at first and i wanted to get that perspective but I'm still really glad i watched this. Keep up the great conversations!
I would not mind dating a trans man; as long as he is interested in monogamy, marriage, and wanted 2 children, and a whole bunch of pets.
Aneko Foxx uh cis men cheat constantly, but go on with your implications.
@@whorianzyprexa5028 uh....I don't think that's what they were saying at all???? I think they were just saying that they'd date a trans man who shares their goals and values, same as with a cis man
They literally just said "interested in monogamy." That has nothing to do with whether someone cheats. Most of the people in the world who cheat do it while in monogamous relationships. This is so out of left field from both of you.
@@whorianzyprexa5028 what implications?? You're reading things that aren't there.
@@whorianzyprexa5028 polyamory isn't cheating!!! You can be in polygamous relationships and still be a cheating bastard because polyamory doesn't mean cheating by definition, it just has different boundaries than monogamy and both kinds of relationship can involve you falling victim to disgusting cheaters
trans guy here.
i find myself currently in this situation - with a cis bi guy im into, who says he is really into me. we spend a lot of time together, we are sexual with each other - but something feels off to me. he doesn't seem to be as passionate and enthusiastic as i want a lover to be. he stops our sexual interactions midway in very sudden ways, and i suspect that he is stuck in that space of being really into me but unable to "do it". and i think he might be pushing himself into uncomfortable places because he doesn't wanna think of himself as "transphobic" or "not bisexual enough". I have brought these thoughts up to him - but he says that's not it. what "it" is - he cannot articulate. i am frustrated, once more, having to humour a cis man's emotional illiteracy.
I have put myself in that position, myself - trying to be sexual with cis and trans women - and came to realize that while i can be attracted to many different *bodies* (as i have been very passionate with afab nonbinary people, and pre-transition trans guys) - i am simply not attracted to femme energies. and i have been doubting that about myself all my life - "is this misogyny? is this some patriarchal woman-hating aesthetic?" etc.
i am big into self analysis and this also makes me big into self doubt. but i am finding that doubting my own feelings because they don't fit my politics doesn't really get me very far... but there ARE many different ways to understand and interpret my own feelings.
So i am in a place now where i am trying to learn to accept my emotions and attractions even if they aren't a beacon of feminism. (because, duh, it is ok not to be attracted to women*, even though i am attracted to some). and try to make space for things in myself that might be "problematic" in order to be able to explore them far enough to UNDERSTAND what they are, and what they mean to me, and to learn to accept myself as i am and not try to modify my own being just to fit my own ideologies.
As for the confused cis guy - i have decided to take a step back and give him space to figure himself out. i have no anger with him for trying things - but i want to be able to be sensitive enough to myself to know when enough is enough.
It is possible that he has ED. A lot of guys have ED (at different times in their lives) and it may have nothing to do with you. Either way, he should see some type of doctor about his issues.
That's so true about the dating apps and why I deleted them. The relationships never go anywhere because you've met them in an unnatural situation.
I think the worst part about dating apps is that they discourage people from talking to each other. That reinforces every harmful assumptions people might have about relationships.
I really appreciate how you handled this topic. I haven't heard many folks handle this topic well, but I think you did it perfectly.
I feel like there’s this huge fear of the unknown when it comes to dating trans men (trans people in general), for anyone interested I’ve been in a relationship with a trans guy for a few months now, and here’s what it has been like:
I’m a gay man and I’m totally into twinks, I met him in a bar and he totally fit the bill- totally adorable, kind, and we had great chemistry. A few weeks into dating him, he came out to me as being trans, at first I kind of made a face (I took it back instantly of course) and he told me to take a few days to settle into the idea, and let him know if I wanted to continue dating. So I started to imagine what sex would be like with him, I just went completely blank. I remember just thinking, “what would I do with him, could I be attracted to someone with a vagina?”. to cut a long story short, I realised that on a personality level- since me and him clicked so well together that I did want to pursue a relationship with him, then when it did come time for us to have sex, I realised that I was attracted to him because he has the appearance of a man, and that him having a dick or not really didn’t play into my attraction to him.
If you’re confused on whether you want to date a trans person, when you meet one that you share a mutual attraction to, date them. If you’re not into it, oh well no harm done, if you are, congrats your dating pool has expanded ever so slightly.
bodies are important. that's kind of all there is to it. we all have preferences, it's all about understanding where those preferences come from and if it's a harmful place or not. though I guess that's precisely what's being discussed here
This is my first time watching on of your true tea videos. I happened to be drinking peach tea when you said to grab your tea 😄
Oh lord I was so scared to watch this. So often I hear trans women talk about how they don't want to date trans men under the caveat of "preferences" but their justification is completely dismissive of trans men and ultimately boils down to the fact that they don't see trans men as men, they see us as women. Cis people then use this justification as further proof that trans men aren't really men and that these are valid arguments because a 'real' trans person, a trans woman, said it. Glad to hear this isn't the case here
thiefofthursday that sounds like exactly the case here, what made you think otherwise? She essentially said she feels that way, but doesn’t want to hurt anybody’s feelings
mcrx604 I thought she said she was attracted to trans men but was apprehensive about dating bc she hasn't clicked with the few she's encountered, which is different than what I usually hear, trans women writing off all trans men based on their trans status. Did I understand wrong?
This was exactly the case in this video like what
Just say, “yea I’d date trans men”. And then go on to say that you like big, hairy, masc men - separate from that topic. You can’t always tell if someone is trans. And therefore your preferences aren’t wrong or have anything to do with trans people. It just gets problematic when people feel like they have to try to politicize and justify not dating every trans man there is when obviously you wouldn’t date every cis dude. As if people feel like they’re under interrogation lights, it really comes off the wrong way.
trans man here, drinking a 805 beer
Trans men are just so much more mature emotionally, more accepting and understanding and just generally better than cis straight ones tbh. Sorry not sorry lol. Been with my trans bf 2 years and it’s the healthiest relationship I’ve ever had.
Kat this was great nuanced take on attraction and dating! As a trans man myself I wasn't bothered at all when you explained the type of men you were attracted to. Everyone has their own preferences and, as long as they aren't rooted in harmful ideas, that's perfectly fine.
Also related, would you consider doing a video on how trans people only seem to have as much value as people find them attractive? This discussion reminds me of how trans people are weighed in worth by how desirable they are, which has really harmful effects on our self esteem and mental health. It shouldn't matter whether we're datable, but a lot of the time how attractive we are determines whether we're accepted as our gender or not. I think this discussion could also tie into the beauty standards video, maybe.
Love your true tea, Kat! Keep making great content
To an extent that kinda mirrors how society judges women's worth on their attractiveness.
Firstly, love the videos! I love listen to you while I draw.
I think that is okay to be honest, with your own preferences and your anxieties with stuff you're not familiar with. Its not the same, but I personally know I like women as much as I like men, but I'm yet to go out with a girl because I'm yet to meet one that I'm attracted to -and likes me back, you know- in this small town in the middle of nowhere. Even so, the idea of going with a girl still makes me anxious because I haven't had the experience. I think is just natural to feel that way. That doesn't mean that I don't want to be with one, or that them being women stops me- its just the new experience that gives me anxiety. Too many possibilities to embarrass myself.
Now- I think that everybody feels attraction or preference to certain "aesthetic"- in your case "the kind of man who can throw me across the room" aesthetic haha. It is not discriminatory if you simply aren't attracted to a particular person because of that, its not really about them being trans, it is just about them as people. You won't simply stop being nice to them, just because you aren't attracted to them.
My point is that having a type that turns you on is not something to apologize for, and I agree that people try to bring this political correctness to something as basic as attraction. The more honest you are with your own preferences, the less pain you will cause to people by getting cold feet. If you're going to into a romantic situation, better go with a person that actually makes you feel the feelings.
The problem is that today being seen as attractive is the same as being accepted, as being adequate- so when someone doesn't feel that way we can see it as rejection of us as people. Now, some people DO put that value and treat like shit those that they don't deem attractive- but those are just plain assholes.
Anyway, your videos always make me think! Keep the great work!
-and excuse the grammar, English is not my first language.
This is a really interesting conversation for me because I'm a trans masc dude, and although I'm bi I've kinda limited my dating pool to other afab people? I've only had 3 relationships and all of them were other trans men or masc nb people? It's not because I don't find trans women or cis men unattractive, but it boils down to would THESE people be comfortable with me, not really how comfortable I am with them. I guess that stems from dysphoria and thinking that if my partner wasn't afab they wouldn't find me to be a true man, and they wouldn't want me because of those reasons. Seeing your perspective is honestly kind of validating, because I've unintentionally put myself in your situation on the opposite end
I think sometimes it's very easy for two or more trans people to trigger each others dysphoria. Sometimes it's hard to watch other people feeling dysphoric without going down that spiral yourself. Sometimes it's hard to be careful about how the self-deprecating sh-t we say might affects others.
On the other hand, shared vulnerability can also be a source of strength. No one can support trans people better and knows what they're going through than other trans people.
I don't think my assigned "birth gender" makes it harder for me to see trans men as the gender they are -- bc who knows better than me that "birth gender" utterly meaningless?
I don't see myself as more of a man than you are. I don't even really identify with the term "amab" or "amab" people as a group -- bc I've never been a man or part of their gender strata. (Really, the term gets me headaches; having to relate myself to "maleness", even indirectly, makes me confused and dysphoric.) My experiences with gender are identical those of other female-aligned enbies, and as far as I can tell "afab" or "amab" doesn't really make any meaningful difference.
That being said, I've noticed that many people tend to overuse words like "cute" or "sweet" when complimenting a trans man. I've definitively been guilty of that myself... but then I realized that the thing I thought I had to compliment was when a guy isn't trying to sexually assault people, and how f-cked up everything about that line of thinking really is.
a comment for the algorithm
Another comment for that 'rythem
Thanks for reminding me! I'll leave one too lol
a l m i g h t y a l g o r i t h m
One option if you want to leave a comment for the algorithm is to just say something you don't know where else to say because you don't know who would be interested in your statment or because you don't know who a certain question. An example:
Why do people just not like some foods although those foods are safe for them to eat? Why does one person's brain say "No, don't eat that banana!" and another person's brain say "No, don't eat that pineapple!" It would be one thing if this happened to people who are allergic to those things but in all other cases it not only doesn't make sense but may even be dangerous. If your brain vehemently tells you not to eat peaches when peaches are all there is to eat, isn't this something that could lead to a person starving? At least some prehistoric person who'd learned that you shouldn't eat things you don't like because those things are often poisonous, like moldy meat?
Ooh dang I almost forgot!!
not tea, but drinking a slurpee. your hair is too good
Ugh, i would sell my first child for a Slurpee right now.
5:30 I wonder if this is similar to the pleasure I used to (and somewhat still) feel when a bi-curious guy would tell me I was (one of his) first man.
I'm a lesbian and I used to feel this way too when dealing with bi-curious girls. Looking back, I guess the excitement of "turning" a bi-curious girl was just me wanting to feel accepted and desired by someone. My thought process was, "This girl who's usually into men wants to do things with me, I must be super special!" and it would make me feel good about myself. Nowadays I wouldn't go near a bi-curious girl lmao, too much uncertainty and unnecessary drama.
Mari O 100% There with you! I got into a pretty heated argument a while ago with a bi curious friend of mine. She was telling me us lesbians are “discriminatory” against bicurious girls bc we don’t wanna give them our time and are missing out. I laughed and told her I HAD given PLENTY of my time to straight girls when I was younger and I’m too old for that shit now.
Now I’m happy with my lesbians who really fancy me and know what they’re doing ;)
As a trans guy who’s Mediterranean/ middle eastern and built like a brick house this is very validating
Gay transdude here. I haven't (at least knowingly) been rejected, even though someone is attracted to me, because I'm trans. I also pass really well. I know my trans guy friends who don't pass have a lot of trouble dating due rejection when they come out to potential suitors as trans, though. So it seems like the phenomenon may have more to do with sexual expectations for women and femme appearing/presenting people. Almost like a kind of misogyny.
Mostly I just get fetishized to all heck by cis gay guys, and that's what triggers my dysphoria. They're usually the opposite of off-put when I come out to them, but in a way I find very unattractive anyway, so the end result is similar.
As far as liking a certain "type" of person that may or may not include pre-transition or non-passing people, I kind of get it but I kind of don't. I find that my attractions can shift a bit with context. For instance, I love love men with long luscious hair. If I see someone pre-transition with long hair on the street and don't know he's trans, I'm probably not going to be into him. But if he talks to me and mentions he's trans, or I see his dating profile lists he pronouns, I tend to find myself then attracted to him. I think the mistake is in thinking that non-passing pre-transition guys can't be burly and bearded. I have friends who will spend 2+ hours putting on a beard, know plenty of jocky and/or thick pre-transition trans dudes. So I don't think your preferences are transphobic, but maybe you do need to expand who you're expecting is included in those preferences? Granted, it doesn't sound like you've run into a lot of trans guys period, and sussing out pre-transition or non-passing guys can be even harder so... I don't know. Dating while trans is a whole mess anyway.
I think a lot of it is that said trans men don't read as men at first, and a lot of physical attraction is from visual/first impressions. If a straight man thinks you're a lady but you ID as a dude then it makes sense for them not to be into you anymore. If a gay man sees you as a woman, then you correct him and try to hit on him it's not an always easy switch to flip
just got home from work, spending time with my grams and avoiding a mental breakdown. Thanks for your content, Kat. You're awesome.
I'm only 14 months into my transition and I haven't been dating. I'm older (47) and a widower, so I haven't really wanted to date since my husband passed (in 2016). I'm also a gay transguy. I'm with you, I've only ever been with cisguys in the past and while I find some transguys attractive and I'd even give one a shot if we hit it off well enough, but I don't know if I'd enjoy being with them physically or not. I guess I'll find out if/when it happens. I don't plan to go out of my way to find people to date (it's just not a priority to me, and I don't know if I'd even have much luck with guys in my generation).
Sorry for your loss, man. Condolences.
Yay been wanting this one!
Trans guy. But I havnt been on a date yet. I pass well but the only time I hit on a chick who I knew already liked me, I guess she found out through the rumor mill that I was trans and ghosted me.
Aww, sorry dude. Keep trying :)
Itll be okay buddy. Stealth here, but dated a few girls before meeting my gf (who's also trans) and they were bad experiences. You deserve better.
Loved the video. Since I've been in more left-leaning SJW spaces, I've always been of the mindset of "not wanting to date trans people because they're trans is transphobic", so like many others I was worried when I saw the title of your video. I honestly related to a lot of what you were saying, about fears of hurting others when it comes to sex because of my sexual trauma. Thanks!
My wife lives for your makeup looks.
I'm here for the unbridled and unafraid honesty. Thanks for sharing with us!
just wanted to say that it’s amazing to see so many fellow trans guys in the comment section!
i love how you always frame your true teas as a time when we can learn and you can learn, too. It always makes me feel more comfortable and ready to hear new information, and I love your balanced perspective
Date whomever you connect with. This is a hugely personal, subjective thing and sometimes it's really not the place to get all Virgo about it, ya know?
Just extend the same respect to other people for their decisions in who they do or do not date. They have their reasons. Every person, out of all 7 billion people on the planet, has reasons for dating or not dating whomever. This Sagittarius says, let people be free to explore. They'll find their way.
I am a cis bi woman will little to offer in this discussion, so I will just say I like your hair and your honesty about your experiences. Thank u
Bisexual trans man and Ive been in the just can't do it situation a TON with cis women, never with gay men but I'm mostly straight and very picky about men. So I prefer dating trans women usually. They tend to be chill.
Thanks for this, my teenage daughter asked me recently if it is bigoted to not date trans folk, and if I would date a trans woman. Now I'm an ally, but I am cishet, and honestly grew up pretty fundamentalist Christian, so I kind of muddled my way through an answer akin to, "It is ok to have preferences and what-not because not everyone is attracted to everyone regardless of demographic, though I'd be suspicious of any impulses that are like I wouldn't date a trans X as a blanket statement. I used to just think I wouldn't date a trans woman, and I thought about WHY I felt that way, realized that was transphobic, and over the years learned I would date a trans woman, but I'm not attracted to every woman I meet regardless if they happen to be trans or cis." I think that was an ok start, but I think suggesting this video might be a good follow up.
YOUR POINTS ON THIS WERE AMAZING. I can't say more than other people have. I also love how you described the exact kind of man I'm attracted to lmao, though in my case they're the ones I envy. Thick guys with beards who are twice my height. That type of attraction is not transphobic. You're attracted to trans men for the same reason you're attracted to cis men, and in a way that's honestly really comforting to hear. I don't want to be attracted to for my genitals, or for how I'm so "cute and small" or some wackass shit like that.
The thing is, you’re attracted to who you’re attracted to, and you can’t change that. I’m a lesbian, and I don’t know if I’d date a trans girl, because i haven’t been in a relationship yet and don’t know if s*x would be important for me in a relationship. I have watched p*rn and know I’m definitely not into d*ck, and I never want to get pregnant. I feel bad just for saying that, but you also can’t control your preferences. I also have s*xual trauma and I’m not sure if that has something to do with it, but either way, you shouldn’t have to defend your preferences bc you don’t choose who you’re attracted to, and you can stay in your comfort zone.
Hey Kat! I've been really helped by your videos for years and I think this is a great topic you brought up. Thanks for your honesty and insight, cus this is really real. I'm a trans man who's engaged to a trans woman, it was both our first time dating an opposite-gender trans person and honestly we both at first were nervous about compatibility and sex. The thing that made our relationship wonderful was communication, just complete honesty about how we feel about our bodies, each other's bodies, our dysphoria, everything. For any trans ppl or their cis partners, please talk about this! You have nothing to lose by getting down to brass tacks. Talk about sex, babiesssss 😃
I don't think liking a certain aesthetic is bad. Though, If you like someone's look but then reject them for being trans, thats just dumb
As a nonbinary transmasc person, I think the easiest way to go about this is to talk through it. If you feel like there is any potential in your relationship with a trans person, be honest and upfront, say you haven't experienced it, talk about your own experience as a trans person if you want to. That way, even if things don't work out, it lets the other person know that you weren't ill intentioned, that you were earnestly trying to navigate your way around this. And if the other person isn't willing to put up with that, they will probably back off themselves and save you (and themselves) a lot of time. Basically, talking about it is a win-win situation for me.
Hey Kat, thanks for talking about this topic! Your openness is a breath of fresh air.
Trans masc person here, and your thoughts/feelings are completely understandable. You have a good heart, and like what you like! You're not coming from a discriminatory place, and that's what matters.
I'm going to go grab a fresh cup of tea now...
Hey Kat, thank you for this. Your new True Tea videos constantly remind me how hard it is to actually live 'leftist politics,' and the feelings that come with trying to live a moral life. Or maybe just trying to live your life. Or a life. I don't want to put too much on you.
I've never had that experience of being someone's trial, which sounds like a sad thing -- that you'd wait to see whether the person truly valued you as a human being or not. And that would mean sacrificing what they grew up believing for you, as you probably had to do for yourself. Maybe it's not quite that? Those guys did like you a lot, and maybe it wasn't a whole loss? But it still seems extremely painful. Sorry, I'm trying to understand, but I also don't know if what I'm saying is correct.
I'm bad at offering my own vulnerability, especially online, but since you shared: I've never dated a white person. For good reason: I raise white people up to be better than me, and dating a white person, especially a white man, is asking for abuse. I feel I'd fall into this position where I'd keep giving and giving and they'd keep taking -- actually, it sounds like I'd be their trial, being non-white. And I'm attracted to white people too, but I just don't feel like i can fully trust them with my body. Not unless I'm sure they really respect me, on that human level. Which seems hard to find. And when it comes to dating trans men? I have a really good white friend here who has more gender stuff than me, and we recently realized that even though we really cared about each other, they were holding gender stuff from me and I was holding race stuff from them. And when we talked about those things, we felt like the worst, dumbest people, like the other would never believe us and leave us. And we became better friends in the process. I think, I hope: regardless of race, or gender, or disability, or any other marker, if I can be that vulnerable with another person and they can reciprocate that much with me, then I could date anyone. I hope.
Like I know that you're just describing the guys you're attracted to, but it is nice to hear someone gush a little bit over liking guys that look like me (stocky, roughly 6 and a half feet tall, but definitely on the dad bod/cuddly/chub side)
Btw you're gorgeous and I honestly love your content even though I only subscribed like 2 days ago
Why does blue look so f*cking good on you
Because my skin is gold and blue and yellow/orange/brown coordinate :)
@@KatBlaque in fact you glooowww omg I have yellowish skin and it doesn't work that good 😢 anyway love your content
Thank you for this raw and honest talk about desire! I grapple with this a lot myself and this rly helped me learn to think about attraction better and how rationalized openness sometimes still end up hurting both ourselves and others :( i think what you said about exposure to hot ppl is also spot on! Makes me wonder if the solution for imagining new sexual relationships could then rly be smth as crass as just having more diverse actors in porn or other adult media to broaden expectations......
thanks for the tea ~ it makes a lot of sense, seeing as you both understand the pain of being rejected for being trans and the sort of uncertainty that people who end up putting you into that awful position have.
Honestly I find the politicization of personal attractions and preferences problematic. While fetishization is gross, NOT being attracted to group X or Y should not be judged or criticized.
Sure, there is often a link between prejudice and preferences (friendship, sexual or romantical) but those are still personal preferences.
I feel like if we can identify that those personal attractions are linked to prejudices (transphobia, fatphobia, racism and anti-Blackness) then we should not write them off as unchangeable (because they’re not, and I know from experience) and do something about it.
Trans man here, and I've been in the situation you've described - specifically with cis men (I'm gay), but it's not a problem I run into when with other trans guys since we tend to be on the same page. (And tbh that's one reason why I prefer dating fellow trans men, since there's already some level of understanding there.) BUT... like you, I also see trans guys a lot less often on dating apps, so when I do get messages on apps it's almost always cis men. I guess we're just super elusive or something???
Anyway, with regards to the whole "first trans man" thing, it's frustrating for the reasons you stated but I also understand your hesitation. If you don't know how it's going to go, you don't want to risk hurting a guy in case it just doesn't end up clicking. But honestly, my recommendation is to be up front about it. That way everybody knows what the deal is and the guy in question can make the decision whether or not he wants to continue with a date knowing that there is some uncertainty there.
Speaking from my own experience, it's always been better for me when cis guys who expressed interest in me have been honest about not having any prior experience with trans men, as opposed to saying nothing about that and then out of the blue during a date saying something like "I thought I could deal with the trans thing, but I can't." Which would hurt a whole fucking lot because not once had they given the impression that there was any uncertainty about dating a trans guy or me being their first, so it was always something that seemed to come up out of the blue. But when cis guys approached me for a date and were honest about not having any prior experience with trans men, I could emotionally prepare myself and know that there's a chance that things might not click. And sometimes that would still happen and it'd suck but I at least went in knowing it was a possibility, but the last time it happened it went fine and the guy actually asked me out for a second date! (But at the end of the night I had to decline because at that point I had gotten out of a relationship, and as nice as tgat date was, I realized I still wasn't ready to try dating again for a while, haha.)
SO, tl;dr - as a trans guy, the best advice I can give to you is to just be honest about things. Then if you go on a date and it works, awesome! But if it doesn't, then at least the guy went in knowing that was a possibility and could emotionally prepare himself for things to go one way or another. And yeah, it doeen't stop the guy from getting hurt if it doesn't end up working out, which sucks, but there's still a chance that it might. And you never really know which way it's going to go until you go and find out. So if you meet a trans man and you like him and want to try going on a date with him - go for it! Just be up front about your experience (or lack thereof) with trans men first.
true tea is my favorite tuesday anime
The goth arc is the best one imho
For some reason I saw “would I ever date a trans guy” and feared trans guys would be seen as this novelty or a foreign concept. Thank you for not seeing us as that, even though I know you aren’t the type to do that I have seen it too many times to not be expecting it (if that makes sense)
For me the thing is...when you are attracted to men, and you find a man attractive until you find out he is trans, or until you imagine sex or dating or romance, and then you no longer have the attraction, how does it make a trans man (read: me) feel? That you don't truly see him as male. Why does this hurt? It's nobody's fault. You can't help what your mind, heart, or body respond to. Maybe what's why it hurts. Because the truth hurts. I have given up on finding someone, fwiw. Maybe I'm just an ugly person regardless of being trans. Edited for clarity that this is my perspective and not a blanket statement.
As a slightly bi-curious woman, I get what you're saying. I've definitely met women who I thought were extremely attractive, but I just don't know if that feeling would translate into sexual attraction/enjoying sex with them. I'd like to figure this out at some point, but I don't know how, since I would feel awful about treating another person as some "experiment", especially if the conclusion would end up being "nope, not actually into women after all".
I really liked your line about dating apps and finding people who are “very much outside of your world.” It was eloquent and quite true
You’re giving Nia Long anime ish vibes and I’m here for it!
Honestly, if you are already trying to be considerate of their feelings without even dating one, that seems to be a good sign imo. Plus, you already have insight into the trans experience, and while every trans person is unique and transmen and transwomen face different struggles, (and please tell me if the following is wrong of me to think) there's probably at least some common ground, maybe with dating in a mainly cis scene or some shared hardships.
But I say that as a cis lesbian who has dated trans girls and has 100% accidentally hurt them in the past because I simply had no insight into struggles they face. A lot of the things that would trigger dysphoria were just confusing to me and I didn't understand what was happening at all. I'm a lot better educated now, and just the small amount I've learned has helped me a ton. If things don't work out nowadays, it's usually because of distance and work/college schedules. (I'm clingy, is what I'm saying.)
I feel like I've really hit a wall with the dating world.
I'm a trans man and bi, but I primarily date women and I find it soooooo hard to find women who aren't just experimenting or totally shallow.
I find it really hard to not get hit with the "If only you weren't trans" shizzzz, but nothing you said I would find problematic. You have every right to having preferences, just as much as anyone.
I wish that more women were open to searching outside the box and could let themselves try out new things.
I mean in order to really see what the world is like it's better to try new things lol.
I feel like I can't even have preferences though because of how small the dating pool feels for trans men, and it stings hearing the same thing said over and over.
You just keep doing you though and keep living in honesty. Also I've really been enjoying your content lately you are awesome.
great video, algorithm bless
personally as a trans man i feel very similarly about the trans men I'M attracted to. they tend to align with the cis men im attracted to, although these men tend to be closer to androgynous than "traditionally masculine" (whatever that means.)
i dont have much dating experience, especially since being very early into my HRT transition i dont yet feel comfortable putting myself out there, but i did have an experience when first dating my last ex that made me uncomfortable. i remember really early into the relationship he expressed apprehension around the idea of me potentially going on testosterone in the ambiguous future.
This was a guy who knew little to nothing about trans people and transitioning and someone who hadnt been in a relationship with a man before. it really hurt me but i was able to tell him that if this is something he couldnt support that the relationship wouldnt work out, since transitioning was much more important to me than being in a relationship.
he expressed that his fear was that T would change who i am as a person, and when i assured him that this wouldnt be the case he seemed to be more comfortable with the idea.
needless to say this relationship didnt work out in the end, but i think that it will be the last time that i will walk a man through accepting my gender!
As a trans man, I completely respect and even relate to what you said. I personally have never had an issue attracting or maintaining relationships with straight cis women but, to your point, am very much cis passing. As a straight trans man, I am hesitant about dating trans women. I have not closed myself off to the idea entirely but, as shitty as it might sound, am attracted to extremely feminine features/characteristics that most trans women (that I have met and have open shared their trans status) do not possess (to the extent of gaining my attraction). If I just so happen to meet someone, gain attraction and then learn that they are trans, I will certainly explore the idea.
That honestly makes a lot of sense and I get where you are coming from; I had a different but still similar experience has a trans masc person interested in men (though now I identify as bi) as in I wasn't sure if I'd be willing to date another trans man/trans masc because I honestly wouldn't have been able to deal with someone else's dysphoria whilst already having to deal with mine, and at the time, it was pretty bad. Since I've started medically transitioning though I feel a lot more at peace with my body and hopefully can get top surgery next year and I feel the complete opposite way--I think I'd rather date a trans person because at least then they'd understand what I go through on a daily basis, and we could explore both of our societally different bodies privately, and it'd be easier than to explain my dysphoria (which is sometimes non-sensical) to a cis person. My reasons are/were very different than yours but I completely get where you are coming from and I hope if you do ever go out with a trans men that it goes well for the both of you. x thank you for another great true tea video! I started watching your channel recently and I am enjoying your videos a lot :)
Léon Tr trans men and trans masc are not the same thing
I frequently date trans men and my two longest relationships, including my current one, have been with trans men. I have found that I'm often the first trans woman that trans dudes have been interested in, parallel to your experiences of being cis men's first. I think knowing that you wouldn't want to hurt someone by being theoretically into them and then ultimately unable to 'follow through' so to speak on your mutual attraction is more important than pushing yourself to seek trans dudes to prove a point to yourself or anyone else. I've been in that situation with trans men, and Ive got to say it hurts even worse when it comes from another trans person.
Love the way you did your hair!! As always, loved the video Kat!
I think you're right: it's good to be open, but you ultimately cannot force attraction.
My experiences analogous to yours were kind of the opposite, actually! I've been out and presenting as transmasc and gay for half a decade now, and only recently have I realized that I can get with gay men. For too long I only pursued bi/pan men, and the occasional straight guy. When a certain gay man approached me on Grindr as a potential play partner a few months ago, I kept feeling guilty for some reason, like that he'd discover that I wasn't "man enough" for him. Nope, turns out that he's very into my HRT-free, GRS-free self and that I'm just his type (cute and nerdy) like the other guys he plays with. While I try not to seek men's approval as my only form of gender affirmation, it's a good reminder that I can be a part of mutual attraction.
It's not hurtful to hear that the cis and trans men that you're into look masculine and tough. So many people are attracted to masculinity and toughness, and like Hans said in the comments, that's a normal thing that you have a type regardless of cisness or transness. I know just as many straight women and gay men who's type is the sweet and pretty boys, regardless of cisness or transness. It's very kind and considerate of you to not want to put trans men in an uncomfortable position, too.
Aaaa I LOVE your hair in this video! The braids are a great look and also the side ponytails look so cute on you!!
I love you Kat! turned my notification bell on so i could watch ur videos as fast as i could
pastel failure awwww❤️❤️❤️