How Tesla Planted the Seeds for Its Own Potential Downfall
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- Опубликовано: 8 апр 2024
- When Elon Musk set up Tesla’s factory in China, he made a bet that brought him cheap parts and capable workers - a bet that made him ultrarich and saved his company.
Mara Hvistendahl, an investigative reporter for The Times, explains why, now, that lifeline may have given China the tools to beat Tesla at its own game.
Guest: Mara Hvistendahl (nytimes.com/by/mara-hvistenda...) , an investigative reporter for The New York Times.
Background reading:
• A pivot to China saved Elon Musk. It also bound him to Beijing (www.nytimes.com/2024/03/27/wo...) .
• Mr. Musk helped create the Chinese electric vehicle industry. But he is now facing challenges there (www.nytimes.com/2024/03/27/wo...) as well as scrutiny in the West over his reliance on China.
For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily (nytimes.com/thedaily?smid=pc-t...) . Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday.
This explains what Trump was babbling about a couple weeks ago. He was basically parroting Musk after they had their meeting.
It’s great that China is all in on EVs
You failed to mention the current number of EV makers in China , and the number of models they produce, It is staggering compared to the USA. China is way ahead of the US in adaptation of the EV. Range also is probably a factor. If the US market is open, China will dominate it immediately. Not to mention other transport like buses and trucks.
And we don't need or want this. I also know the quality is awful, the resale value is non-existent and they have no dealer/repair network.
Let's buy Elon a fake Coach handbag...
Warren Buffett's Berkshire invested in BYD back in 2008
🎯 Yes, and Tesla investors made fun of Warren Buffett and BYD at the time. They are not laughing anymore.
*ℹ️ China’s famous value investor named Li Lu brought Charlie Munger’s attention to BYD, in turn, Charlie Munger brought BYD to Warren Buffett’s attention and Berkshire did invest in BYD in 2008.
19:35 …in 2011, Elon Musk himself, made fun of BYD. He’s not laughing anymore: 23:09
Tesla has actually limited its technological leadership by changing their use of only vision in its self driving. If there is night, fog, rain, snow, sleet using vision.
Fsd version 12.3 actually works quite well in the night and in rain from first-hand experience. They are actually probably the only ones that were smart enough to switch to vision only so they can lower the overall cost of FSD. Waymo's cars are 300K
11:14 they are NOT entitled - he sounded pleased, no doubt if he could he would have the same 'lawless' approach to those working for him in Freemont?
As in, he sets the working parameters and NO labour laws. Very Monachal, Feudal if not Robber Barons type of approach.
Far too much of our economy is directly tied to automotive manufacturing and maintenance. It would be economic suicide to hand that to China. We've already given up far too much of our manufacturing base to China in the effort to cut costs. What happens when prices are low but their are is no income to buy anything? Elon just learned this lesson that other manufacturers learned decades ago. "But we need to save the world!" is the response to this concept. I would say to those people that EV cars are not the panacea of environmental change. The energy from manufacturing is high in carbon usage. In addition, gasoline power is mostly handed to the electrical grid and natural gas/coal is still a huge player in that arena. It's only in areas like the Pacific Northwest where hydro and green power are dominant that it pays off. In addition, people are moving toward hybrid vehicles instead of all EV because of the lack of charging in large parts of the country. The US is far more spread out than Europe and this is a problem with EV's.
Kissing a dragon, can backfire!
Let’s see how many other big factories across the world do they have now?
Exactly!
Among China EV support, they give a Green license plate that allows broader freedom for driving outside your region and less restrictions than ICE regular plates.
NYT is presenting this almost as a conspiracy which is quite disappointing. Tesla was not the first car company to get into China. Every one and their uncle wanted a piece of the Chinese market. China had a large EV industry already and a clearly stated goal that they wanted to develop their own car industry. It was exactly what happened in Japan decades ago and then in Korea a couple of decades later. BYD was there before Tesla was there. It wasn't like China overtly snatched Tesla's tech and gave it to their internal companies ( I am not saying they are not involved in intellectual theft but we can talk about that after we discuss what the East India Company did to China back in the day). China was wise to provide Tesla with all those subsidies to develop their supply chain. Also, if Tesla helped set up a clean car credits in China similar to the ones in California, it is directly in line with their mission of enhancing sustainable transport. BTW the comparable BYD model in UK are in the same price range as say a ModelY, it might even be slightly more expensive. I test drove a ModelY made in Shanghai in the UK and its build quality was demonstrably better than what comes out of Texas and Freemont (don't know how Berlin fares).
The naivete' you talk about for Tesla's China initiative, applies to the entire Western effort to open the third world markets to their goods and manufacturing. The West exported their dirty factories to the third world and now blames it for pollution while they consume most of what is made in those factories! The West never thought that the third world countries could ever compete with them and would continue to be markets and building sites of the West, a from of economic neo-colonization but not in so many words. It was quite racist in a way, not acknowledging that humans all over the world had developed great technology and great civilizations and given the opportunity could compete again and that there was nothing inherent in the Western European people that made them special. Now the West is talking about protectionism, anti-globalism. Hasn't that tune changed in the 20-30 years!! The hypocrisy is mind boggling.
You sound far more conspiratorial than anything covered in this story. What exactly was presented "almost as a conspiracy?" Pollution? No one assigned blame for pollution in this presentation. What are you talking about?
Perhaps English is not your first language? If so, I understand.
Perhaps that’s his point: that there was not fair context about the origins and long-term perpetrators and originators to benefit monetarily and structurally from pollution. ….
Anyways, what’s with the insults?! 🙄
There's the tone of conspiracy but what China did is actually good capitalism. I won't go into why the mainstream American media uses this tone when they talk about China - all I can say is it's a cultural characteristic of the country and was well described by Richard Hofstadter in his "The Paranoid Style in American Politics" published in the 1950s.
BYD is the offspring of a Chinese Li-ion battery manufacturer founded in 1996. It's a company that has tradition in the most importand and difficult to manufacture component. China has a scientific tradition that goes back thousands of years - though the tradition of exploring the full potential of what that tradidion produced is a somewhat new phenomenon. If I recall correctly, btw, China has expertise in extracting and purifying rare earths - something very difficult to do.
IMHO, the problem with Tesla started with their option for full ev cars. BYD is selling well in Brazil - mostly hybrid vehicles. From a carbon emission point of view I think (I don't have the data) that hybrids are a better option. They are probably a better option even if we dont account for all the externalities related to political unrest and civil wars the demand for the minerals that go into Li-Ion batteries. I also find the idea of using each country's electricity generation matrix (the type o energy used to generate electricity) senseless. It's senseless because CO2 doesn't stay in a single country and therefore comparisons should be made using the global matrix.
@@maxheadrom3088, Can you be charitable and *explain exactly* what was the *"tone of conspiracy"* in this specific podcast?
♾️ @@marceybull, a podcast episode can’t possibly include the details and explanations of everything - or it would be infinite. ♾️
What’s next? This guy is going to complain that the American Constitution doesn’t explicitly talk about the merits of Chinese culture or how China benefits the world?
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation:
00:01 *China rescues Tesla*
03:36 *Tesla-China policy*
13:26 *Tesla spurs competition*
17:32 *BYD overtakes Tesla*
Made with HARPA AI
Fascinating! Thank you both 😊
The gist here was Tesla would have failed if china didn’t ride to their rescue. They built good products. That had more than a small effect.
Bravo,...very well said and that is a fact the only few know! Tesla's access to the Chinese market saved their skin. This is stated in the NYTimes article.
The difference between byd and Tesla is that Tesla makes high quality products with long range. Call BYD makes glorified golf carts. Dad aren't up to USA or europe crash standards. Not to mention most of the cars BYD makes are not electric. They are hybrids so you really can't count the number of hybrids they produce and compare them to the number of EVs Tesla produces
BYD's dolphins and seals are all ncap five stars in Europe and Australia.So BYD can be sold in almost every developed country except the United States. For example, Australia, Europe, Britain, New Zealand, Japan, Singapore, Israel and so on.
@@hi4806 That's nice that they have some cars that meet safety standards. I was referring to their best-selling cars like the Song and Quin, which are significantly cheaper And apparently don't meet the standards you mention. These are the cars that people mention when they say BYD is outselling Tesla.... In China
@@Espiritiv BYD song is called seal U in Europe,also Euro ncap Five stars.Many BYD cars are only cheap in China, so they are building factories in Europe, Brazil and Thailand.
BYD is a bit like Volkswagen and Toyota, with products at various prices. For example, the d9 mpv with an average price of 400,000 RMB sells about 10,000 vehicles a month. BYD's high-end brand yangwang,with an average price of RMB 1 million, and sold 5,000 vehicles in three months.Of course, BYD is more of a low-end model such as Dolphin Seagull that sells for $10,000 to $20,000 locally in China. On the contrary, Tesla is a high-end car company and artificial intelligence company
Enon wanted to build his vehicle in China. He gets what he wanted.
Cheap shot.
Coming from somebody who clearly don't understand how to manufacture anything from scratch.
Tesla toxic evil
🤡 19:35 in 2011 Elon Musk made fun of BYD … He’s not laughing anymore: 23:09 ⚡️
Warren Buffett presciently invested in BYD in 2008, after Charlie Munger brought BYD to his attention. Charlie Munger in turn, learned about BYD from a Chinese-born American value investor named Li Lu.
"Li Lu (born April 6, 1966) is the founder and chairman of Himalaya Capital Management. Prior to immigrating to America, he was one of the student leaders of the 1989 Tiananmen Square student protests. In 2021, he also co-founded The Asian American Foundation and serves as its chairman."
- Wikipedia: Li Lu
👍ℹ️
lol, you guys really dont like elon musk. I mean hes craptasticly toxic, yes. but this wish casting is kinda silly.
A bunch of second raters with nothing better to do than trot out the usual 20 tied old innuendos planted by Oil companies and rival Motor companies (who incidentally buy millions per year of advertising from you) going after a brilliant Visionary. Go land a Rocket or make a car car drive it self, then I will listen to you. Otherwise RIP to fact free Hit Pieces
The silliness goes so much deeper though. Tiramisuesqe.
This is most stilted scripted sounding interview. All the questions sound written by the person answering
That word, podcast. I don’t think it means what the NYT thinks it means.
M hmmm 🙄🙄🙄🙄
How the New York Times planted the seeds for its own potential downfall.
New York times is doing remarkably well.
@@tomjensen618 So is Tesla
@@KSgalveston, why is the inventory of unsold Tesla vehicles piling up, specifically this past quarter and right now?
📉 … There’s some tangible evidence that $TSLA is not doing as well as it has in the years past. I say this as a $TSLA shareholder myself.
📉 This will continue until Tesla makes its vehicles fully autonomous. Elon has been promising full self driving "coming next year" for 7 years now. 🤥
TSLA up almost 5% yesterday, the NYT is upset. 😵
They never mentioned robotaxi or full self driving
🔮 @@typhoon320i, Elon has been promising that fully autonomous driving is coming next year for 7 years now. 🤥
📉 $TSLA is down almost 3% for the day, today. What a "great" point you made yesterday. Your logic is impeccable.
@@platoscavealum902 optimism....what a crime.
@@platoscavealum902 What will you say when FSD works and I’m a multimillionaire!? 😁
This podcast is getting so one dimensional. Let me guess, you guys are anti Elon? I don’t care either way, but saying Tesla got “played” by, or “underestimated” China is so childish. Both of the hosts tones are so “that’s what you get Elon…”
Another hit piece. with misuse of facts. Amazing how good “journalists” can spin events to fit whatever narrative they want. Propaganda would be a kind word for this garbage.
A bunch of second raters with nothing better to do than trot out the usual 20 tied old innuendos planted by Oil companies and rival Motor companies (who incidentally buy millions per year of advertising from you) going after a brilliant Visionary. Go land a Rocket or make a car car drive it self, then I will listen to you. Otherwise RIP to fact free Hit Pieces
Tell us you didn’t listen to this “hit piece” without telling us you didn’t listen to it.
What is Tesla’s mission? “To accelerate the world’s transition to sustainable energy.”
This narrative ignores this. Tesla is wildly successful at accelerating the transition. China was once the pariah of climate change activists, now it is the world’s leader in renewable energy.
You guys are talking about BYD as a competitor while it is a partner.
Elon musk himself has spoken mockingly about BYD as a competitor:
19:35 in 2011, Elon Musk made fun of BYD … He’s not laughing anymore: 23:09 , talking about tariffs as the only thing keeping Chinese competitors at bay.
Why is Elon not saying remove all tariffs on Chinese cars so that everyone can buy inexpensive China made electric vehicles?
The reason is that "to accelerate the world’s transition to sustainable energy" is only a marketing slogan designed by Musk for early adopters - and you’re just gullible enough to believe it.
I’m sure Mr. Musk would love for Tesla to "accelerate the world’s transition to sustainable energy" - he just has a problem of not being *the one* to do it.
Given your obsequious comment, one could assume that you still probably believe Musk is saving every penny to get to mars - "to ensure the long-term survival of the human species." If that was the case, why did he sell his Tesla shares at the peak and not use most of that money to get to Mars, instead of - wasting the cash to massively overpay for Twitter?
The answer is that "to ensure the long-term survival of the human species" on Mars is only a marketing slogan invented by Musk to generate hype.