The true Origins of Wing Chun (Part 2)
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
- Sifu Sergio Iadarola presents The true Origins of Wing Chun (Part 2)
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Chinese Kung Fu have always been about both external and internal strength. So it's no surprise that Wing Chun also follows the same tradition. As what Sifu Sergio said, the chaos of the civil war in China during the rebel against the Qing Dynasty and the cultural revolution during Mao time, much of the internal strength system has been loss and now left with external. Internal strength or Qi takes much much longer time to train than external strength. Good job Sifu Sergio for your hard work and bring these history back to light. You are truly one devoted great Wing Chun practitioner.
Time to stop arguing about how to block a hook or MMA fighting and start getting into what Wing Chun can give to us. Keep on Sergio. :-)
In 2002 I was teaching Ip Ching lineage. My best friend was a longstanding Tai Chi practitioner, he came at first(as moral support) but he said to me then, I'm not joking "It is an internal system but it's hidden." with a smile. I think you've proved him absolutely right, and your own skills are clear to see.
That’s nice to hear
Great Job Sifu Sergio! Thanks for all your time & effort in this research! It took too many years for us to find out that the Okinawan Karate came from the White Crane System. I think we can all become brothers in Wing Chun if we can get back to our roots and all of us strive to be better persons with each other!
Thanks for that Sifu! Very informative and very accurate. It's about time that the truth be told about wing chun and we disperse with the fairy tales. For you to learn the internal part of wing chun, you have to go back to some of the original systems, like you said. Maybe it's time to teach other masters this so they can pass it along. The only problem though is that most teachers are stubborn and will not take any tutoring from other teachers. They are so stuck on what their teachers teach, as if it were law. Even the grandmasters say that we should always QUESTION our teachers. This helps to get a deeper understanding of the inner workings of wing chun, as well as help speed up your progress as a student, and eventually, help you if you become a teacher. This is why I say you should read books, watch different videos, and do tutorials to really learn the basics of wing chun. Many teachers just cannot explain, in simple, basic details that a rank beginner can understand, because they themselves either don't know the system completely, or they, in the case of someone like Master Wong or Hawkins Cheung, cannot speak good enough english to be able to explain it in those terms. As a student of traditional wing chun, I know that knowledge in this case, IS power. And learning as much about the system really helps your understanding of the system. Thanks again!
Another fantastic video! I'm so thankful that this information is finally getting out there. Wing Chun is an amazing system with so much to offer if it is complete. I've been putting the pieces back into my system for a while now. This can often be met with resistance by others who refuse to make change or feel that they are not needed. We have to forget about current lineage and go back to our roots.
Trust me you are not alone. But be prepared for some resistance from others that may look at it as not being true to your lineage. You have to make a stand of either doing it correctly or going along with tradition.
thank you sifu sergio for sharing your wing chun, especially your extensive research and discoveries with us.
I remember a guy that I met 24 yrs ago named Eddie Ma Hon Chau did similar sets just like this in his method of WC. Great research!
To someone studying martial history this is very credible. Simplifying a style or teaching only the hard aspects happens when trying to teach soldiers who need it now. This happened when a White Crane master taught Okinawan people to help them vs occupying Japanese. The basic long hard stances and square strikes are used by beginners to build joint and tendon strength as well as coordination as a foundation for internal "softer" uses learned later. The strong and long stances are needed by beginners for wielding long weapons(the ones best vs horses and samuri) as well. Those who took their beginner White Crane and survived the test of battle refined their art into what would later become Karate though some Karate styles are heavily influenced by Korean assassin arts that were absorbed and reworked into what is known as Ninjitsu 4 main branches.
i like your philosophy...to open our eyes...exactly...we are all family...keep doing the good work...
👌i loved that waving arm and hand (ermei) much respect spreading the positivity sifu Sergio!
Hello, I am passionate about wing chun since 2010.
I have practiced kick boxing and tae kwon do but wing chun is very much more natural and economic movements.
I can not afford to enroll in a gym wing chun because there is no gym in the country where I live.
The nearest gym is located in Lecce, is the sifu Emanuele Fracella.
We always follow through the internet and I practice alone on the wooden dummy built by me.
I hope that one day there may be a gym wing chun in my country.
Much respect!
much respect sifu Sergio. good work and research sir.
Very interesting. Thank you. I would like to know more about this guy Yik Kam and what happened before Red Boat.
Very very well said sifu Sergio :)
I think that everything evolves, nothing stays the same. I prefer reality instead of a scholar approach. Let’s keep
It simple. The reality is that most wing chun practitioner are only used to close combat fighting. When confronted against a skilled boxer they get knocked out. So I prefer practical wing chun instead of the scholar approach or the dogmatic approach.
This video is very interesting, I hope, everybody will understand.
Much respect!
Thank you for sharing your knowledge and research.
Thank you so much for this
Hopefully it brings unity to the wing chun community
a martial art system that was so precious that not even every second or third person was lucky to get almost the complete system or the biggest part from it and until today wing chun people are confused and without profound knowledge about it, than because who will get the entire system with all the inner game and engine would became an unstoppable god of a warrior. That is my believe. I guess how a human can invent and perfectioning a System such as this.. I have the sense that humans 100 or 1000 years ago had more knowledge about his body and mind than now adays for sure. We have to Research ourself. This is what i do in life
. Thank you sifu Sergio.. So interesting.
Logic and facts surpass emotional attachments and loyalty. Being flexible when new (old) facts come to light is the truest form of loyalty. Embracing the new or adjusted, does not dishonor your own past or your masters. It is an enrichment if you choose to let it be just that.
Very interesting. I recently experienced tai chi sticking energy . The last time I experienced that feeling was over 40 years ago studying Wing Chun. No coincidence.
He says "watered down" a lot.. but he describes something different... watered down usually means you're adding filler to stretch something out and make it last longer... when someone waters down their whisky, they dilute it with water, when a martial art is watered down that usually means a few extra kata's or forms were added, or some new requirement was added, certain competencies were split up to make more of a business practice for teaching the complete art and keep students coming back... but when he says the internal parts of the art was stripped out, that's the opposite of "watering down" and is more like filtering out parts that weren't needed at the time for a specific purpose. Which isn't bad, if you intend on making a fighting art, kind of like how MMA/UFC filters out ... most of the art in a martial art for a more efficient fighting style.
Thank you for making this video and the work you are doing. Keep it up ~ I have always felt that there is more to what we are doing, things missing. This makes a lot of sense.
Thank you for sharing. Very nice
I have been studying Wing Chun for about 2 years. Ip man style and Yeun Kay San and came to realize on my own that a large part of whats missing or not being taught is the grappling part and take down defense part and who knows what else because back in the old days most Kung fu systems had more chi na and some ground defense..
Think about the Dummy form or chi sao and how if someone is already pressed against you like when you see the clinch happen before or after a take down attempt and then the guy presses the other guy against the cage..
that's where I believe wing chun can be used greatly in stuffing the clinch.
A lot lot of moves in the three forms that seem to no make sense now make more sense... I know the Yeun Kay san Forms and almost have completed the Ip Man Dummy form..
we are taught to keep our arms out and so on but if you get trapped that's where your bong sau can rotate and slip out with a lop grab and back hand shove to the face or if some has you hemmed up you can do the double or single palm strike under the clinch..
OR even in the first part of the dummy form where you bui strike the arm and grab the neck. those are clinch beakers to shut down a grappler because in reality Wing Chun is part grappling.
With that I could be true that Leung Jan did not teach Chan Wah Shun all of his Wing Chun leaving out the full aspect of grappling defense out
that Being Said after researching more of Yeun Kay San he supposedly had more grappling defense and take down throws as well as Chin Na imbedded in his System
In the yeun kay san system I have been studying I figured out a clinch breaking move in Bui Jee if some one has both underhooks in and I sent a short video explaining what I discovered to a Kung Fu Uncle and he told me he never thought of that and would add it to his arsenal..of course I can't beat the guy but can see things in movements that others may miss.....
I've noticed this along time ago. I used tai ji and choy li fut with wing chun with ju jitsu and it works good.
Great information especially the hand movements. Thanks for the share. It is very useful for the root of Wing Chun according to Quantum Science.
Thanks Greg Sifu Appreciate your feedback
The Wing Chun Kung Fu Channel by Sifu Sergio I also appreciate the information on the meridians and acupoints. The hands of WC also corresponds with the 5 Element Theory from Dr. Hua Tuo going back 2,000 years ago.
Interested to see the new old techniques
Good job
AM
superb!! Not everyone in the wing chun community will wish to look outside their box and explore the historical facets of anything Pre 1950's ...but to me it's clear that today we have a collection of very external Wing chun practice and development leaning heavily towards the mma scene and less towards the origins. A huge thank you for all your hard work researching this subject for those who are open minded enough to wish to learn more and deepen their own Wing Chun personal development
Thanks Paul appreciate it
Aloha, another point missed in training is ' hand conditioning '.
along with doing the internal. I don't consider myself a master cause there is so much to learn
Great video....Thanks for sharing your research.
Who is to say what has been watered down, and what has been distilled?
nice, where can I find denotations of the old form?
thank you
in my opinion, ip man's story about wing chun's origin is right. it is not saying that ng mui was making it by seeing a white crane fighting with snake.
the story about ng mui making wing chun by seeing white crane fighting with snake is I think being mixed up between wing chun's origin and white crane's origin.
white crane was made in fujian. a girl was seeing a white crane fighting with snake, then combining the movement she saw with bodhidarma's breathing system. this is why, there is no sticky hands in white crane (cmiiw)
ng mui born long after the white crane event happened, in qin dynasty. she is being trained in tai chi by his father. this is why wing chun has sticky hands, like taichi.
the event of ng mui's story isnt taking place in qing dynasty like what people said, but in qin dynasty
I found this insightful. God bless you for sharing this knowledge. How can I access or find this kuit kuit? Thank you.
Excellent… but If you really want to connect with the whole wing chun world, we need more information. Please publicly release the kuen kuits (fist poems). Or else the wing chun world might believe this is for marketing purposes! We all want to know the true wing chun history, so please start sharing the original documents.
Its all in my book "The Six core elements the SLT and history of Wing Chun" btw Sifu David Peterson of the WSL lineage wrote one of the forewords
so where should a beginner like me begin sifu? This is too confusing
Thanks that was very insightful. Care to hint at those charlatanes your were talking about ? Would be detrimental to following your advice.
Sifu Sergio, could you point out a nice example of the yik kam long complete set you mention in your video pls?
Ask 1000Delight below. He is the current authority on Yik Kam Wing Chun.
Aloha from Hawaii 😉 🤙
I first learned Wing Chun from my sifu Raymond Mar in 1983.
I never believed the story about Ng Ming a lady creating Wing Chun. The Red Boat opera story is more believable.
I have a question... can you show or link me, to what you’d consider the original Wing Chun form? Thank you
Wait then who was it that combined emei and white crane...? Or did I miss something?
Miu Shin
I would like to ask how Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun is related to Wing Chun's history according to this line of research. Did it develop throughout history without any relation to this fusing of White Crane and Emei or is it there at some point? What is sifu Sergio's opinion on this?
I think I have those hand movements in my form too. What are the purpose of them?
Yuen Kay Shan had 2 Wing Chun sifus. The first one is Fok Boh Chuen as you mentioned. The second one, the most important one I should say, is Fung Siu Ching （馮少青）. Fung came to Yuen's life when he came back from decades of his self imposed exile from Myanmar or Burma. Don't get me wrong about Fok Boh Chuen; he was a great master of Wing Chun. His butterfly-sword was second to none. What's left to learn was some type of explosive power, aka form of Qi. He is the reason why they are 3 forms today. Before that Wing Chun was one long form.
Great video..... molto interessante :)
@Jonathan Hazuki LOL!!
If sifu sergio would like all families to "put the tech from the past back into SLT" then will you post the kuen kuits for us to gather that info?
you still waiting for it?
yep
Link doesn't seem to work anymore. Do you still have the Kuen Kuit Available Christopher?
Message me via PM please, can't seem to find a way to message you outside of this. They're both translated to English docs?
Christopher Espinal okay I'm sending you an email.
What is the name of the internal part sifu is mentioning along with white crane? Please excuse me, I cannot catch it, my understanding of Chinese is very limited.
07:32 Wing Chun origins: Fukien White Crane and Emeiquan.
In WCAA-Sweden we are already teaching internal WingChun i.e. restoring internal part as you mention. But it is hard to find right students that want to learning internal WC since it consists of deep theories and it is difficult if the student don't have not right background and mind since we teaching the internal part direct to beginners. By restore the internal system to the external movements then many of my WC practitioner got a total different dimension of WingChun.
more info www.wingchun.st /Sifu P. Yeung
sifu will your book be available in the u.k. & in English?
How about Pan Nam?
For all of you not sure, wing chun is a compilation of the five systems of the five elders of the Shaolin temple. They consist of white crane, white eyebrow, choy li fut, hung gar and shaolin. There never was a Ng Mui or Wing Chun, as Sifu Sergio pointed out. That was just a rouse to keep the Manchurian government away from the Shaolin Temple when they were developing wing chun. There are no records of those two ever existing.
Yes, you are absolutely correct. Since the beginning of wing chun in 1644, at the Shaolin temple, it has been modified. This happens because of the change of fighting systems, and different systems that are outside of the kung fu line, which wing chun eventually was introduced to. These new systems, such as western boxing, muay thai, karate, tkd, etc. forced wing chun to modify it's system to deal with these new systems to be effective. It was also modified to make it easier to learn and faster to pick up. This is what happened in the 1800's during the Red Boat Opera troupe, where weapons like the long pole were added, and the system modified to be effective against the government troops, who used horses and weapons of their own. It was also modified as it was taught along the countryside, as people's interpretation of wing chun changed it initially. It was again modified, out of necessity, by Dr. Leung Bik, who modified it to keep the real system in the family, when Chan Wah Shun (Chan the money changer) was caught spying on him to learn the family system. So he modified it by changing the footwork, taking out the REAL footwork, and replacing it with the footwork you see today in the modified system, which drags it's feet to slow the practitioner down, which cuts back on the effectiveness and efficiency of the system. He also modified the stance, putting most of the weight on the back leg (the 70/30 stance now used in all modified wc), instead of putting the BALANCE on the back leg (using a 50/50 or 60/40 stance), as the traditional system does. He also left out other key elements, like forward intent, and being square to your opponent, which again, you see in the real, traditional wing chun. Chan was so successful using modified, he kept it and used it as is. And the reason for that was Chan was a taller and heavier than average man, and his directness was hard to overcome at the time. Now, you can overcome that directness (sometimes called "Blitzkrieg defense" because of it's direct and overpowering attack of multiple strikes) by a simple sidestep to the outside. This is why they have problems with boxers. Ip man was first taught the modified system by Chan wah shun, then learned the rest of the system by his senior student. Everyone knows the story of how Ip Man met Leung Bik, who taught him the traditional system when he was challenged by him and wound up in the bay several times after doing chi sau with him. So Ip man knew BOTH systems, and decided to teach only FIVE, who he deemed worthy, to learn the traditional system. Ip man also changed the first form, removing triple moves because it was not necessary (as per the first concept, economy of motion), making the form you see today. He probably did that with the second form also as well as the third, but that, I am not sure of . This helped make it easier to learn and sped up the learning process. He is responsible for some of the current teaching techniques, as well as the way chi sau is taught, though some do it differently than he would, citing it makes it more fight effective. I would like to close with this comment. Wing chun was MADE to be modified. That is part of what makes wing chun such a good system. You CAN modify it to your abilities or disabilities, your personality, and most importantly, THAT OF YOUR OPPONENT. But this is ONLY DONE under the guise that you stay within the confines of the ten concepts, which dictate proper response of the system in a fight scenario, and gives the system it's flexibility. This is why modified has such problems against real fighters, like boxers. It does not use all ten concepts at once, but only 5 or 6, making it stiff and rigid (as Bruce Lee found out, THE HARD WAY), and limits responses. Also the fact that it is missing OTHER key elements, like proper footwork (the circle inside the triangle), and also proper way to close the distance, using initial contact to close the distance, a body rotation square and an angled step to the outside of the attacking arm. Only the Wong Shun Leung system knows how to proper close the distance in modified wing chun. Others mistakenly stay in mid or long range, which gives the opponent time to continually attack, or take down the wing chun guy. The techniques are done differently also (such as a pak sau), which goes to the shoulder, without a body rotation square, losing the center line. It also does not teach the central line, the line from the shoulder to the center, which allows not only more coverage for defense, but offense also. Since wing chun is a CLOSE COMBAT SYSTEM, you NEED to know how to close the distance properly through initial contact, as per Wong Shun Leung's edict:
Loi Lau Hoi Sung, Lat Sau Jik. This translates to the following edict:
Loi Lau- This means to "engage the enemy, stay with them and form a bridge with the attack, intercepting the path it takes."
Hoi Sung- This means to "take advantage of their errors, following their mass of center when they withdraw, attacking the opponent without worries."
Lat Sau Jik- This means when the hands are released, ATTACK DIRECTLY WITHOUT HESITATION! (Very important!). All this information is in the book by Master Allen Gibson called Beginning Wing Chun.
Like I said before, if you know the whole system in wing chun, you should not have a need to learn how to handle mid and long range combat, or supplement it with ANY OTHER SYSTEM, which DESTROYS THE WING CHUN'S ESSENCE. If you know how to close the distance properly, it should just be space that needs to be breached between you and your opponent. If you can close the distance through each contact, until you are close enough to make contact one more time, you should be able to get close enough to finish the fight when that final distance (usually about 2 to 4 feet, depending on arm length), is breached. Also, like you said, the traditional is also more internal than external, and the modified is just the opposite. If you watch someone like Boztepe, when he does any redirection, or strikes, tension remains. If you watch someone like Sifu Mox, you will see the real traditional, with emphasis on the soft and the internal, more than the external. His emphasis is more on energy flow and relaxation.
It sounds like the legend is telling the truth in a metaphorical sense(literally wrong, metaphorically true), a fusion and martial art evolved from crane and snake styles
if the truth hurts, tell the truth
Are there any examples of Wing Chun men wining an actual fight?...using Wing Chun?...lol
geography?
This is good to know more about Wing Chun's history but don't get stuck in the BOX that the original is better than current. In fact, the nature is always the opposite due to the law of evolution. Just to learn and practice what fits YOU, e.g. some personality cannot learn internal style.
Fully support you statement . Adapt it in the 21st century .
Stick body shortstrike shaolin canon
Wing Chun is derived from Fukien System relatted to Hakka System. It is a collection of techniques used among masters of the coastal provinces of south-east China. Finally was polished by one or more talented masters together into one system.
You missed it. The form is very exact. It is the same as all southern kung-fu. The transmission is not from person to person. You could search forever and not find the true meaning it's hidden in the form. Silver nim/lim tao has all the movements of the form without the actual form. Same as all southern kung-fu after you get the transmission the kung-fu car will run. And it will open a whole world of forms new and held on to forever. The nonsense in this video was evident that you have not grasped the true meaning yet.
Traditional Wing Chun is the truth, not this new deceitful fairytale lie that he's saying... Modified Wing Chun is not the true system... I understand why its hard for many modified practitioners to come to the truth about Wing Chun, because they've dedicated a huge chunk of their lives to what they do. I myself used to be apart of the modified system, until Traditional Wing Chun showed me all of the huge flaws that modified has...
"Trust those who seek the truth but doubt those who say they have found it."
Alex Weierstrass Hmmm..then using your statement in the context you are intending it to be used in about the post above yours, then your statement can be used about anyone that posts anything instructional or any testimonial because to them they are speaking the truth no? Is it not better to just listen and of you don't agree let it go in one ear and out the other..or if you do agree..then take and use what works for you? Everybody is not gong to agree on everything...that is just human nature. You have your beliefs...and I have mine and guess what? that is perfectly ok..tis what makes us human and individuals :)
Hyabusa40
Read it, and if you still disagree then that's on you
www.lawingchun.com/ikf_bruce_lee.html
You make TWC sound like a sect, not a different WC lineage, that's just disturbing.
TWC is in no way superior than any other lineage, it's just different. It has it's strong and weak points, the fighter makes the final difference.
The link you pasted is written by a TWC Sifu, so that's in no way a objective perspective on that fact alone.
Most think their lineage is the best and will promote and defend it as long as it suits them. I would rather trust someone with opened mind and thinking outside of the frame "my lineage is best, f*** the rest".
If there is something I learned from this life, it's that most things are not what they seem at first and that history is written by the winners.
So if you insist believing in William Cheung's and Ip Man's story about history of WC, so be it, just think about why you are going around and spreading your "gospel of TWC"... Maybe because part of you doesn't believe it yourself so you seek confirmation outside ? Maybe, who knows...
DavorBa
uhh absolutely not, don't even try to argue with me here and try to claim that your thoughts are more better than mine or that you're trying to help me open my mind. I have a very open mind(fact). i used to be apart of the Moy yat Ving Tsun system which is modified and its system is not all that safe. I'm talking about Wing Chun here, its laws, its doctrine, its way. All i am saying is that Traditional Wing Chun is more superior than the principles of modified. IN NO WAY am i saying that its THE ONLY WAY AND BEST WAY TO FIGHT, I am saying that TWC is scientifically better than modified. Yes i'm very well aware that things change when its a full blown fight rather than being in class and having powder puff punches thrown at you. Which is why i do spar with it, to see what really works, and again in no way am i saying that TWC is the only way of fighting. Which is why i'm actually a Mixed Martial Artist now because i realized that mere repetition of rhythmic, calculated movements robs combat of its "aliveness" and "is-ness", its reality. Because if you only follow the classical pattern, of its laws, principles, its doctrine, you are understanding its routine, the tradition, the shadow-- you are not understanding yourself. When only doing on style of fighting you're being molded and programmed into its way of dealing with things, but different structures of fighting also need to be learned so that way you become a more "open minded" fighter. Take whats useful and reject whats useless. What Bruce Lee said. He himself wasn't comfortable with the modified Wing Chun because he said it had too many fixed positions. Sure it has its partial good to it, but overall you have to learn to adapt and change. The reason I say this is because i saw your other comment on the video of Grandmaster teaching in Macedonia.