why was Future Gohan weak?
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- why was Future Gohan so WEAK compared to present Gohan?
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Catching Ls for 14 years straight is crazy😭😭
It's impossible for Gohan to dodge that one ☠️
GOHAN, DOOOOOOODGE
what gohan heard: “NEVER BACK DOWN NEVER WHAT!? NEVER BACK DOWN *NEVER GIVE UP* “
Should have gotten stronger from those zenkai boosts
I can relate to that
I also noticed he lost his rage. it's like he gave up. Young gohan loses his mind at the idea of losing his friends or family.
His rage is either more calmed or controlled. The latter is most likely because of how his rage Boosts works. His rage Boosts is him tapping into his unknown potential. So the stronger he got the less amount of rage Boosts he has. Besides, we saw his rage twice(sort of) in the dbssh movie
To be fair, and I might be spitballing here, Gohan had to still have some anger to get Super Saiyan, but he didn't realize how to prefect it and go beyond like Goku did?
Nah, what I'm trying to say, have you ever been mentally weared down by something repeatedly so you end losing the will to be even emotional towards that certain thing like a dead-end job or a depressed divorced parent. You do it out of weak necessity, not desire.
@@johnnygyro2295 indeed. But even then goku only thinks that there's a level beyond super saiyan when he recovers from the heart virus. So it took drastic measures for even someone like goku and his battles smarts to get to that conclusion
@@k.m9900 that's what I thought, too. He got so used to people dying around him he became almost jaded. Compare that to his present counterpart, who isn't used to seeing death every single week. Or he is just angry all the time, which isn't really healthy, both mentally and physically
I also heard that there was the possibility that he would overtrain himself and not give himself enough time to recover. Goku never gave him the advice that recovery is just as important as training until they both trained in the time chamber.
This makes a ton of sense, and as mark points out, he might just be bad at training while suppressing himself
Probably. Considering the only physical type of training he got was the harsh one with piccolo that he had for a year.
That makes sense because if you train without recovery you make no progress
@@BlackIungThere is a risk that you will get worse, in fact you can destroy your body and lower your performance (and in his case, who always needs to be prepared, this is fatal)
"Work Hard, study well, and eat and sleep a plenty. That is the Turtle Hermit way to learn!"
Goku learned from the best.
I think a major theme of the series is that hardship doesn't actually breed improvement. The strongest fighters have joy and hope in their lives. Getting beaten up for 14 years doesn't do it.
Jiren and Beerus want a word with you.
@@forcebrand4678 Beerus sure does have joy in his life. He's very casual and just wants good experiences.
@@forcebrand4678Beerus has plenty of joy in his life, and Jiren was strong but he lost to Universe 7’s teamwork, and ultimately is motivated to become even stronger by Gokus words
@@forcebrand4678and yet Jiren lost to Goku, whose mastery of UI came partly due to the camaraderie he had with his people, while Jiren could have ended things and given his team the win early on if he had truly cared to. See the difference?
Except in the freiza saga where getting beaten up once gives you a literal 100x permanent power up.
Not having goku to train with really does put this into perspective
It's not just goku not being there to train him
It's losing everyone he loved and made his life worthwhile and the world he lived in was destroyed.
@VictimOfFat3 definitely all those are reasons too
Couple theories I’ll share
1. His lacking of training experience and sparring partners. He never had the fundamental teachings that Goku gave him in the time chamber to further his strength
2. He was alone and like you said his mental fortitude was probably distorted and weak
3. He likely made the same mistake Vegeta did in that he would overtrain without giving himself enough time to recover
4. It seems like he also lost most of his rage which was the key to unlocking his power and zenkai boost
5. No Hyperbolic time chamber. Not only did Gohan have little experience but no ideal training grounds
The writers forgot his zenkai boost out of anger that knocked Raditz, 2nd form Frieza, and 3rd form Frieza
Also, unlike our Gohan he never got the mastered super saiyan form either. Goku would have usually taught him that, but since Goku is gone he can't. And since Vegeta died during the androids first attack too, noone in Trunks timeline ever nvented the other super saiyan grades.
My personal headcanon is that theory 1 and 2 are canon and that he only started to get better at self training when trunks showed up.
@yudhazacharias9377 You don't get zenkai boosts from anger. That was gohan getting a rage boost in those particular moments. The only time we know he for sure gets one is after freeza was tryna flatten his skull & krillin saves him. After he's healed by dende his power goes up & freeza figures out that he must be a saiyan cause of it.
@@plewisjr90 wait, zenkai boosts come from recovering from near death experiences right? So 13 years of fighting the androids give no zenkai boosts to Gohan?
Something worth mentioning is that the senzu bean went extinct. In the anime we see that he had them for most of his life. But in the manga it's just mentioned that they've been gone for some time.
It's very possible that everytime he got his ass beat by the androids he had to heal the normal way, waiting in a hospital bed not training until all his bones put themselves back together.
Wouldnt he get massive zenkai boosts by that?
@X_SHADOW_X58 probably not enough. That and I highly doubt even with the time chamber he could train properly by himself
@@X_SHADOW_X58 Unless he was near death, probably not. Broken bones, unfortunately for Saiyans, do not appear to qualify as near death. Otherwise Vegeta would've gotten *way* stronger immediately after getting the shit kickec out of him by 18.
@@X_SHADOW_X58 Injuries strong enough to give zenkais would take a long ass time to heal up, so I feel like it's hard to chain zenkais in the way Goku did in the Namek saga. He got as many zenkais in a week as Gohan could probably afford to get over the span of several years.
Also, in super we find out androids can get stronger too. Maybe they also improved along with whatever zenkai Trunks received
I remember that, in the Shin Budokai 2 Game, is stated that when he died and went to heaven, he kept seeing the Androids in his mind in a trance like state:(
He actually got stronger just hallucinating about androids and got ss2
@@chlans8755really?
@@dannymoontattoosa joke
They done gave bro PTSD 💀
@@dannymoontattoos
Yeah in that game future Gohan has SSJ2 AND potential unleashed (he gets ultimate by the Z sword in his timeline)
I think another big part of this is he lacked any sparring partners. Everyone else was dead so without a rival or mentor to push him, his gains were a lot slower. Training alone limited how he was able to train.
Exactly! Having training partners being important is even stated in the manga by goku to gohan just after they entered rosat together.
I think this is a huge part of why goku and gohan got so much stronger than trunks and vegeta from the time chamber training. They actually trained TOGETHER rather than separately. Trunks and vegeta went in together, sure. But you never saw them spar or try to teach or push eachother.
@@stumpyalex503 exactly! The story told us they trained separately, that's why trunks was able to hide his stage3 transformation from vegeta. For the 2nd rosat visit they even went in separately. Goku explained to gohan just after they went in the rosat that after gohan turns ssj, gohan is very beneficial for his training. Also when injured ssj2 gohan fired his kamehameha at super perfect cell: goku said to goku "Show Cell the power we built together!!" Immediately after entering rosat, Gohan wondered if he' really is useful as a ssj because he was killed in the future by the cyborgs despite being ssj. Goku then replied to gohan that his future self never went to rosat, perfectly explaining right then and there to us readers why future gohan is so much weaker than present gohan. Why do people ignore these statements? Especially youtubers like the person who made tis video should know these statements. They should analyze the story well before making videos like these.
I remembered seeing another video that says that Gohan's training was just mostly shadow boxing which while it's good to hone your skills, isn't ideal to increase your power since it does nothing
It's because he never spent time with his father in the Hypertonic Lion Tamer. I miss Abridged.
I think you mean the Hype Ebonics Rhyme Chamber.
I think you mean the Hypersonic Mime Namer
Obviously he meant Hyperbolic Cheeseburger Deluxe
The hydroponic lime chamber?
For fuck's sake, Just say the room of sprite and lime.
Bro got jumped in a 2v1 and held his own for a bit. And i love him for it
👍
And had 1 arm so..... yeah he did his job
Came here to find this comment. Respect to Big Han for real.
10+ years of it
@basedsholgun_8048 lol
Kinda funny how people complain about Gohan slacking on his training when the Gohan who did nothing but train, ended up dead in a puddle. 💀
100% the gohan who spent the majority of his life training can’t keep up to the version of himself that slacks off constantly 😂
It’s less that he slacks off and more that they keep repeating the same story beats over and over ever since the buu saga. Gohan is weaker because he hasn’t trained since (please insert last saga Gohan was relevant here) and now he’s a an irrelevant loser who has to wait for goku to show up. Also can’t forget that arrogance that someone as smart as Gohan would have definitely learned from the first time. It’s gotten old heck it was old when it was reintroduced
@@triforceofcourage100 Current Gohan is looking to change that trend, it seems different this time because of Beast Gohan.
@@BCCSquidwardremember when he was the first to unlock ssj2? Slacked. The only one to have the mystic form and unlocked it in the buu saga? Slacked. Said he wanted to unlock a new form, then he struggled to wear piccolo's weighted cape at the start of the dbssh movie. Just because he has a new form doesn't mean he'll stay on top of his training
@@tuhoegamerjerey The difference here is... Gohan got a whole movie for his new form. 💀
And we've already gotten past the Super Hero Arc... is he slacking yet? No, instead we got this man fighting ULTRA INSTINCT GOKU. ☠️
Give him some credit, he could fight both androids and Vegeta was obliterated by just one of them.
In the manga, cyborg 17 stated they fought at less than half power in their last fight with future gohan, so in reality he's not anywhere near their lvl. Not to mention these cyborgs are weaker than the ones in the main timeline. It's also flat out stated in the manga that future trunks just before he went back in time is a little bit stronger than future gohan.
@@ryuhayabu1also only cyborg 17 fought Gohan, as 18 sat and laughed on the side
@@ryuhayabu1 It doesn't change anything, but the future androids may not actually be weaker that the present ones. Let me explain, iirc Trunks wasn't there when 17 said he was only half strength, and chances are he held back the same way against Trunks, which Trunks can't tell because he can't sense their ki. Are the present androids truly stronger than the future ones, or did the present androids just take Trunks more seriously than the future ones ever did ?
@xegin1572 thing was, Dr. Gero had the z fighters' power levels constantly monitored, so that the androids power levels would be superior to all of the z fighters. Since present-day Z fighters train much more, the androids strength increased as well. The Cell from that timeline line was in the same vein; he was made to be superior to both trunks-timeline androids, but because the present androids, hell, even kami-fused piccolo, was stronger than him[Cell], he had to consume many more lives before he was stronger than present androids.
@@tohrum2679Dr did not constantly monitor the Z fighters through thier training. He didn't even know Goku could go SSJ. It surprised him. The original commenter is right. Trunks just believed the present Androids were stronger because the Future Androids held back on thier last play thing. They didn't go all out on him. They literally could have killed him anytime they wanted. We can clearly see the Androids like to play when fighting. 18 could have killed vegeta in thier fight after breaking his arm. And 17 could have wiped out the rest of the Z fighters but instead they left them alive for later playing and went to find Goku. They even drove because "it would be fun".
He never had the 3 years prep training for androids which had a huge difference because that was his actual training with Goku and piccolo training refined for 3 whole years.
Exactly! Why do people ignore this lol
Akira Toriyama forgot to pick up a colored pencil to give him a boost
I wish Gohan was a more intelligent fighter. He is a smart dude and I wish it was reflected in his fighting style. Sometimes db just gets a bit 'i am more powerful so i win' and it would be cool to have interesting enemies with styles that need intelligent solutions for once.
Preach
Because, In the end, Power is the real deal.
It's because of his potential power that Gohan is a unintelligent fighter. He had only a year of actual training under someone who knew what they were doing (Piccolo) and from then on relies mostly upon his rage boosts to get through fights throughout the series rather than his training. The end result is Gohan has neither the fighting experience nor the need to go over how he fights.
Yeah that’s exactly how pre time skip one piece was
he shows his inteliligence in the broly movie (2nd one) but is not canon and alternate universe
I would argue that it's because:
• He didn't know about the Hyperbolic Time Chamber since Goku died and never told anyone about that place (which was essential for everyone to get a boost on their power levels)
• Since Goku died, there is no training about staying as SSJ for 10 straight days and having full control over it
• Training with only Trunks wouldn't make him stronger. Goku, Vegeta and Trunks for example to get stronger had to make changes in their way of training, something that Future Gohan couldn't do.
i completely agree about the HBTC but i didn't even think about the last two 😭. that definitely explains it though
Doesn't piccolo know about hyperbolic time chamber , since kami knows about it?
@@yosangleyes but it's pointless, since the moment they find out about the Androids, they die, they have no time to even think about the Room for Training
@@yosangle in the future piccolo and kami did not join back together sp he would not know about it
I would like to think Mr. Popo would have sought Gohan to train in the chamber after the Androids killed the rest of the Z fighters.
To be honest it was the same principle on why Goku didn't want to train in the HBTC right after he got out. I know the gravity, weather is different from Earth's, but putting you body through an insane amount of stress like that will barely get you anywhere. For Future Gohan, it's exhausting... He's pretty much fighting (or surviving fights with) the Androids frequently, there's no proper room for growth. Plus he was doing this solo for a long time.
Like how both Vegeta and Trunks didn't get that much stronger after using the chamber again. And why during the 7 year time skip, Vegeta only got strong enough to surpass a ssj2 child Gohan, while Goku surpassed even that, and unlocked ssj3.
It ironically falls back to Roshi's motto:
Work hard, study well, and eat and sleep plenty!
its simple, theres no explanation beside plot. Just like Kid Trunks without any training beside having fun with Goten managed to surpass Future Trunks at that age by miles. Even 18(stronger than Future 18 even when she woke up according to Future Trunks, aka every timeline characters has different powerlvls in the first place) was shocked at how strong Goten and Trunks were and actually started to sweat.
@@michaelshahoe putting the plot excuse aside, I thought it was obvious why Trunks was stronger than his future counterpart first appearance. He was properly training, learning all the fundamentals. He wasn't just having fun with Goten 😅. He was training with Vegeta, then training with Goten. It's why Goten was pretty strong as well.
It's the same with Future Trunks. In the beginning, when he started learning from Future Gohan, you can see his growth from training. Until Gohan died, and Trunks had to fight the Androids alone. At the point, even with his ssj powers and abilities, he stagnanted. I mean, yeah he did get strong enough to easily kill someone like Freeza and King Cold, but against his Androids and the presents, nada.
Another great example is when all 4 saiyans (Goku, Gohan, Vegeta and Trunks) went inside the HBTC. As far as we know (not counting video games, or even filler scene) Vegeta and Trunks trained solo. Yeah they each got strong, but without necessary knowledge to train properly or go further, it didn't massively boost them in the long run. However Goku did it the right way. He first trained Gohan up to unlock ssj, trained him up to get just as strong and then they trained together. They got waaaay stronger within less time than Vegeta and Trunks.
@@taecampus We actually dont really know how strict Vegeta was regarding with training Kid Trunks. For all we know, Vegeta barely trained Kid Trunks and why he underestimated Kid Trunks so much and didnt know Kid Trunks not only just achieved SSJ but already mastered it with Goten. It wouldnt even be that surprising that Kid Goten achieved SSJ before Kid Trunks because of ChiChi actually training Goten and Goten awakening it during the stressfull time and than Goten showed it off in front of Kid Trunks. We don't really know how it happen and it's pretty much implied the kids got mainly stronger through their own playfull sparring sessions that Goten implied to Gohan.
The Kids already skipped grade 2 and grade 3 ssj and didnt fall into the same trap as Vegeta and Future Trunks did. Instead they skipped everything and unintentionally came to the same result as Goku came.
It's also implied that alternate timeline characters does not have the same powerlvls regardless of the different conditions. Take android 17 and 18 for example. They already were stronger than their future counterpart according to Future Trunks despite the only change in the butterfly effect being them awakening 16.
@@michaelshahoe gooood....... I replied, sent it but for some reason RUclips didn't save it I guess?
@@taecampus from my end, I dont see any new responses beside the one you wrote about youtube not sending it or something.
I’m sorry I will hear no Future Gohan slander today, the man was a hero and died as such
He died laying face down in a puddle of water to where he never knew peace 😔
Something thats specific to gohan is his emotions and how that affects his fighting abilities. Gohan living in a tragic future makes him more jaded of a person, its harder to tap into your raw emotions when you become more apathetic surrounded by war.
This specific gohan isn't also our gohan, hes a grown up version of gohan post namek. Just looking at it from there, you can see how he ended up as someone that could never tap into his true power the way he currently is. Gohan's experience with his father helped him reach the peak he couldn't see. Future Gohan probably couldn't imagine how much stronger he really can be when he is constantly failing all the time, he calls Trunks their last hope because he doesn't believe in his own strength and abilities to win after everything. With a Gohan that has given up on himself, Trunk really does end up being their last hope.
Honestly it’s really sad. His lawyer getting kidnapped by Raditz was never really peaceful or happy, and with most everyone dead, especially Goku, he didn’t have someone that could show him there was more power within himself than he could comprehend, ie, Super Saiyan 2. So him being weaker makes sense, because Future Gohan would think that Super Saiyan is the absolute peak he could ever achieve in power.
Ahh this is actually making me sad.
His life in this timeline was a living hell...
future gohan is one of my favorite db characters. i understand that it's kind of absurd to love a character that has so little screen time, but his stand against fate, the androids, the last fighter who lived in despair being the beacon of hope for the last remaining warrior, it's so inspiring and awesome. him being the gohan we know too helps a lot; the young boy we've seen until now, uncertain but strong, fighting for everything. even though he had no chance, he stood tall against despair, even if it cost him his life. my goat
it helps that he's really cool in dokkan battle
True
Bardock would be extremely proud of his Grandson, future Gohan.
just say you glaze 'em then.
There is definitely something to be said for that kind of Badass Last Stand.
Even then in dragonball as a whole we see solo training isnt effective unless some sort of breakthrough in their training is achieved, Goku trained for 5 years to prepare for his rematch against piccolo and barely got any stronger
Black Frieza right
Keep in mind, this Future Gohan is the same Gohan who shockingly knocked Raditz, fired up a Masenko against Nappa, gave some beating to 2nd form Frieza, and almost defeating 3rd form Frieza. All of that raging potential did not come from Goku's training, and the writers of History of Trunks say "ahh forget it"
@@yudhazacharias9377 At this age he should have SS2 but none of that stuff you mentioned made any difference because the main training is the training with Goku in the RoSat and he didnt get that
Plus F. Gohan only had his potential unlocked once while our Gohan has been unlocked twice
@@montanamaxxamillion future Gohan never had his potential unlocked. He was killed by the Androids before Old Kai unlocked his potential. And our Gohan only jad his potential unlocked once* in the Buu saga
@@yudhazacharias9377 f. Gohan had his potential unlocked the first time by elder namekian, same as ours..Except he didnt recieve the elder Kai unlock that ours did at this same age
Ultimately, it boils down to plot because of plot. If gohan was as strong as he should be after 14 yrs of zenkai boosts and training, Trunks wouldn't have needed to go back in time, thus canceling the entire cell arc. There is no real in story reason why Gohan, who has ultimate potential and huge rage buffs, wouldn't eventually be able to kill the andriods after enough time. Even if you say Gohan was training inefficiently.
Have to agree. Thats just too much time not make slow but steady improvements. Thats even if you factor him being more cautious due to sensu bean plant dying out too.
That period of intense training and bonding with his father in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber was a seminal moment for Gohan as a warrior. Future Gohan never got that opportunity.
Bro really wanted to be like picollo with that arm 💀
Picollo?
@@Ireallydislikehandlespiccolos lost his arm but his grew back lol
@@Ga_mma1 I know, it’s the spelling of Piccolo threw me off.
@@Ga_mma1"I wish I was a Namekian, would be really helpful about now." Tfs Gohan 😆
In the cell sa-@@Ga_mma1
This really shows how Goku is so important and specially in how he's a great master
its simple, theres no explanation beside plot. Just like Kid Trunks without any training beside having fun with Goten managed to surpass Future Trunks at that age by miles. Even 18(stronger than Future 18 even when she woke up according to Future Trunks, aka every timeline characters has different powerlvls in the first place) was shocked at how strong Goten and Trunks were and actually started to sweat.
Keep in mind, this Future Gohan is the same Gohan who shockingly knocked Raditz, fired up a Masenko against Nappa, gave some beating to 2nd form Frieza, and almost defeating 3rd form Frieza. All of that raging potential did not come from Goku's training, and the writers of History of Trunks say "ahh forget it"
Goku never really taught Gohan though. In fact it was Piccolo that taught him pretty well everything about fighting. All the rage boosts that Gohan got from fighting Raditz, Napa, 2nd form Frieza, 3rd form Frieza didn't come from training with Goku - it just came out of his "LaTenT PowErS". But I guess the writers just fucked that idea off and thought "Rage boost who?" Kinda sad
@@Zamamasu I know right....
@@yudhazacharias9377 Legit
Limitness of senzu beans is also one reason because of that he couldn't do intense training
That's a valid explanation.
actully senzu bean went extinct in the future
@@mitsu_song yes but upto the point where gohan lost his arm
Limited is the word you are looking for. After he gives trunks the senzu while protecting him, losing his arm in the process, they are non-existent afterwards.
You don't need senzu beans for intense training.
Future Gohan somehow having a phone, seeing the title before watching the video: *You MF*
Actually future gohan has more potential than universe 7 gohan, if that gohan had ss2 it would’ve been the biggest wrap ever. Bad circumstances is why that gohan died the way he did. No training, no goku, and second he got super saiyan he was always fighting. If he trained with goku similar to trunks training with his dad. Dude would’ve been a monster
Present day Gohan had more to work with, he had both his master and father to train with for 3 years and because his father survived the heart virus he was able to train even more to the point he not only got ssj early but his dad found a more effective way of using ssj it also helped that 17&18 weren't as ruthless as their future counterparts
In the manga, after his year worth of training with trunks (who at this point is a child) gohan decides to go face the androids. when this happens, 17 says that last time they fought, him and 18 only used half of their power. Therefore, while gohan did have allot of preparation. He only prepared for half of what the androids had to offer. Thats why he got killed so quickly. Bro didnt have a catch in hell
Keep in mind, this Future Gohan is the same Gohan who shockingly knocked Raditz, fired up a Masenko against Nappa, gave some beating to 2nd form Frieza, and almost defeating 3rd form Frieza. All of that raging potential did not come from Goku's training, and the writers of History of Trunks say "ahh forget it"
Catch in hell? Did you mean "chance in hell" or have I just never heard that saying before.
@@donovanfaust3227 lol it was a typo
I have my doubts about that one tbh. 17 may have just said that to screw with Trunks and Gohan.
I just don’t see how it’s possible for Kid Gohan to blitz Perfect Cell into the ground while Future Gohan couldn’t even defeat 17 & 18 at half-power. I suspect that Gohan truly pushed them, but that he ultimately didn’t have a chance while fighting 1v2 and without any Training Guidance. You have to keep in mind that Future Trunks tells us that Gohan taught him how to fight, and Future Trunks blitzed Frieza without any issue.
After all, before Goku died in that Timeline, Gohan had already went through quite a lot and had already gotten pretty powerful. I don’t buy that he magically stopped improving over the next decade when he was training all the time.
@@Doomzdeh 😅 New to DBZ?
No zenkais
No rage boosts
No help from the afterlife
Just years of ass beatings
Poor bastard
The writers forgot his zenkai boost out of anger that knocked Raditz, 2nd form Frieza, and 3rd form Frieza
And has NO arm,only have 1 arm
Honestly, that brief time training Trunks is probably the most growth he’d seen in a decade.
He was the strongest in his timeline, remember he was trained by Goku to become super Saiyan in the present but in his time they were all dead so he had to train himself, the impressive thing is that he wasn't too far off of SSJ2, about semi perfect cell level, he had mastered SSJ into a more efficient version (Future SSJ) than even Goku was able to, honestly we need a game or series exploring if Future Gohan was brought to the present with access to the training his parallel self had, it would be an interesting dynamic to lazy Gohan vs PTSD Gohan's training focus, honestly I think future would actually surpass present pretty quick since he wouldn't stop training
Also a valid point for his weakness is 'Plot', if he was strong enough to kill the androids the saga wouldn't have existed in the first place.
Lol
That's not really a "reason". That's just stating what happened, without giving an in-universe reason as to why.
This is the right answer
@@cedric15773 Sometimes things are so inexplicable that an in-universe reason just doesn't cut it
@@cedric15773 It's a story about magical flying bodybuilders that can shoot lasers, writen for children.
To expect a prefectly congruent narrative is setting expectations are a little high don't you think.
He lost him arm lol. Bro was literally fighting with 1 hand. Thats a HUGE nerf.
SSJ2 Gohan literally ended Cell with one arm left. He's been in a situation like that before.
@@BO2ZombieX doesn’t make it any less of a nerf… if he can do that with 1 arm what would he be able to do with 2?
Nobody is comparing here@@BO2ZombieX
@@BO2ZombieX IIRC, in both cases Gohan lost the arm trying to protect an ally. The difference is, that VS Cell, Vegeta was still awake and just strong enough to make a difference, allowing him to overpower Cell. Future Gohan didn't have that. Future Gohan didn't have ANY support around him. The only ones left were Trunks, who was both a kid and too weak, and Bulma, who was not a fighter and whose material access was too limited to let her even attempt anything that could even the odds.
I've always had the impression that the reason Saiyans can get exponentially stronger in short amounts of time, especially when they aroused this deeper emotion that's not purely self-centred or shallow. Which really makes sense to me when you think about it. Saiyans, with the potential to be the lesser gods that they are, most of them could never ascend because they are all still in an uncivilized culture of conquer, bloodlust, domination and pride. Any Saiyan that became unexpectedly selfless ascended to Super Saiyan. Any Saiyan that got righteously angry ascended. Any Saiyan that's also kind-hearted who wants to do good by others like the boys just ascend into Super Saiyan like it's nothing.
So ironically enough, all the Saiyans needed was to be genuinely good people as a race to make it easier to ascend, but they couldn't, because back in the day, they're about chasing combat, bloodlust and power. All very selfish things.
I would like to think what I've thought for years is true. Kind of also fits into the Ki concept that Akira Toriyama put forth. Coincidence? I THINK YES! But still!
I haven't read the super manga, so the answer may be there, but then why wouldn't the Universe 6 saiyans be all suped out? 7 had to come in and teach them how to transform, when their whole deal is being the good guys.
I've always thought that the Saiyans of the past never achieved higher strength, because they were stuck in a "I am what I am" mentality. Someone with a power level of 5000, would just keep having 5000 their whole life. Never questioning it, and never trying to improve it. That training to improve oneself, is something more spiritual races do, like humans and Namekians. Which is why a Saiyan growing up on Earth, means so much for their potential.
I know there are Zenkai boosts, but Saiyans of the past seemed to be cowards. Never fighting those who could give them a real fight, outside of those like Bardock.
@@Vipes3 I think a lot of Saiyans start out just like the Vegeta clan, they all as a whole believed that your power level was pretty much what you're born with. I don't know much about Universe 6, but their Saiyans presented to us are pretty much scrawny and unimpressive (except for the Caulifla), and until Goku & Vegeta came into their lives, they didn't even know of how to Super Saiyan until they were taught how to. Then they basically immediately went SSJ in no time. That's impressive stuff. They had the potential and none of the guidance.
That's my stupid little world's theory anyway.
@@Vipes3 Plus, another thing about Universe 6... The new Paragus was actually super strong, because he mamaged to spar with Broly and stuff. I think Saiyans also grow as strong as their challenges (if they survive), kind of like a diamond out of carbon thing - The more pressure, the hardier you become. But of course Saiyans are like the embodoment of this but with the flesh. What doesn't kill them literally makes them stronger. Maybe Universe 6 just doesn't have that big if a threat/challenge if Frost was their best villain.
"Call me Goku" still the funniest abridged moment
I think 1 on 1 even with the missing arm he could beat them but got overwhelmed on the 2v1. Like when when trunks beats them he prevents the 2v1 and eliminates 18 before 17
In addition, Future Gohan likely didn't start training until after the Androids appeared. That means from when he got home from Namek until the Androids appeared (~5 year gap), his power was more or less stagnant, if not a bit weaker than his Namek self, since Gohan isn't one to train for fun in his spare time like Goku or Piccolo.
Also he have to train trunk too
its simple, theres no explanation beside plot. Just like Kid Trunks without any training beside having fun with Goten managed to surpass Future Trunks at that age by miles. Even 18(stronger than Future 18 even when she woke up according to Future Trunks, aka every timeline characters has different powerlvls in the first place) was shocked at how strong Goten and Trunks were and actually started to sweat.
Also if he trained too hard, the Androids would probably know his location.
@@Redblaze27 androids cant sense powerlvls regarding the training too hard. DBS manga also pointed that out in TOP. Only 16 and Cell could sense energy. 16 similiar to a scouter while Cell is the same as the main cast.
The writers just said screw his raging zenkai boost
I have a theory that Ki is influenced by outside influences. IE if you feel a Ki far higher than your own, your body unlocks new heights of KI.
This would explain why the humans were 3x as strong as Goku was when they trained with Kami (they felt Radizt energy).
Gohan never felt the Cyborgs energy, so his body was capped at what he felt Vegeta at as a kid.
Wouldn't it be capped at frieza or cold? Not that it would change anything..
Oh wait nvm im trippin you meant ssj vegeta
@@MegaEditz715lmfao
So kinda like how physical world records are broken once, and suddenly dozens of people are shattering that same broken record to try and surpass the new one?
This is completely made up and not true, he is that weak because the writer wrote him that way for the plot of the arc.
It’s pretty clear, he just didn’t have the right teacher to aid him in powering up. He didn’t have his father to show him how a SSJ works. He had to figure it out himself.
True
It's as simple as that. I think even having Piccolo still around would've made him stronger, albeit not as strong as he'd be with Goku as his teacher.
You wanna talk teacher? No one taught him how to knock Raditz, no one. The writers forgot his zenkai boost out of anger that knocked Raditz, 2nd form Frieza, and 3rd form Frieza
@@yudhazacharias9377 cool man
@@yudhazacharias9377 well said that's true man I loved it when he's going ss2 for the first time
I mean, also it’s very bluntly stated and shown that one android might’ve been defeated, it’s the fact both of them always fought and worked in tandem while being on par with ssj that made it so difficult
That just tells you how much potential gohan has.. bro learned super saiyan on his own.
Honestly is weird to me as well since present Gohan is on par Goku and Vegeta rn in company future Trunks is way stronger than present Trunks
Future gohan never unlocked SSJ2 or had his potential unlocked by Elder Kai, which put him on par with Super Buu. We can assume becoming "Ultimate Gohan" probably did most of the heavy lifting for him
@@Medbread present Gohan is the one who reached ssj2 I think you mean future Gohan
@@Jaythephoenix428 Yeah sorry misspoke
May be stronger than Beast as well…if he takes the DBHeroes route
Of whic beast is a derivative- Gohan had a version of ss4 and Trunks got SSG
Future Gohan was the hardest mfer. Mans lost his friends, mans lost his arm, mans still fought.
Even considering all that he should still benefit from his famous rage boosts which are known to multiply his ki by insane factors if only for a brief moment.
This is what I was thinking lol this mans rage boosts are ridiculous and your telling me he had none when they were killing all hiss loved ones?
It was explained in the series that training without proper rest will just lead to you hurting yourself and gohan clearly didnt have the time to rest because as far as we know he was always either fighting or training
Honestly my biggest thing for future Gohan was I always felt like he never had the sparring partners to actually get better. In the present timeline they all had each other to fight and get better but Gohan just had trunks really.
The fact that only a few comments understand the full context of gohan’s situation proves that dbz fans are never beating the allegations
People spend to long trying to power scale like this is rock-paper-scissors and not enough time focusing on what the story is actually telling them.
@@ducky36F exactly
well said. I honestly believe eventually, Gohan may have overcome the androids if they didn't grow tired and finish him off.
I always kinda thought Gohan just wasn’t a good solo trainer. Later material did say saiyans did get stronger when fighting in groups.
Probably also wasn’t able to use the gravity room. Most likely got destroyed sometime before the the movie.
I also thought he might not be able to utilize the Zenkai boost to its full effect.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Korin’s tower was gone in the future, or Korin is dead. Meaning limited sensu beans. And once they’re gone, they’re gone.
That means you can’t just pull a Vegeta and just get an other worldly beat down like against Zarbon or Cell, and then jump in the healing tank or eat a sensu bean and get a massive zenkai.
I unfortunately think the “Future Gohan was weak” argument has just been made more and more prominent the higher the power in the main timeline gets.
One interesting thing is that on the Wiki, Future Gohan was 23 when he died. I think we can all say he was WAY stronger than Goku was at 23.
At least there’s that.
The writers forgot his zenkai boost out of anger that knocked Raditz, 2nd form Frieza, and 3rd form Frieza
@@yudhazacharias9377 Clear sigh that you never actually saw DBZ. Gohan got some good hits on Raditz and Frieza yeah... But can you remind me what happened right after those moments? (Specially against Frieza?) Gohan whole arc from the beginning to late Cell Saga was that he did had great potential but couldn't take advantage of it until he properly trained with Goku, which never happened in the future timeline.
@@diegomedina9637 I see. Okay, but another thing that threw me off was that Goku kept telling teen Gohan to get angry over and over. If the key is anger, then how come future Gohan isn't angry with all those deaths for 13 years?
Lowkey wild how big of a power gap main Gohan and future Gohan have during the same time (age 780), one is on par with Super Saiyan Blue while the other is stuck in early android saga, it shows how much Gohans family means to him during his training
its simple, theres no explanation beside plot. Just like Kid Trunks without any training beside having fun with Goten managed to surpass Future Trunks at that age by miles. Even 18(stronger than Future 18 even when she woke up according to Future Trunks, aka every timeline characters has different powerlvls in the first place) was shocked at how strong Goten and Trunks were and actually started to sweat.
@@michaelshahoe stop spamming the same trash
@@hrdshrdrck8727 why shouldnt I when so many failed to understand such a simple thing :)
@@michaelshahoe problem is:
You are wrong
@@hrdshrdrck8727 no arguments to debunk it, so you must be wrong :)
He was doing the same type of training,wich leaded him to only stay in shape but not get much stronger
It’s because the plot demanded it, it doesn’t actually make sense
Gohan didn't know how to evolve super Saiyan so he could only become as strong as Goku and Vegeta were at the beginning of the Android saga.
If he trained with Goku he'd have evolved super Saiyan and probably be close to becoming a SSJ 2 by now.
He was possibly weaker than vegeta and goku in the android saga because of how much more effective the training goku and Vegeta was doing in comparison. Secondly, Vegeta faced off against stronger androids than the future androids and went out in better condition than gohan
Well said
Manga Gohan was even weaker that Yadrat Goku who was at the same level of Future Trunks who was state to be stronger than Future Gohan.
Manga Gohan didnt stand a chance and die by Andorid 17 alone. While Trunks state that he could fight both Androids.
Poor Gohan of only he could drink that special water that kid Goku drink to defeat Piccolo Daimao who awake His inner powers.
@@tuhoegamerjerey
Actually there's nothing to prove that the Present Androids are stronger than the Future Androids and Future Trunks statements don't mean shit since Future Trunks never faced the Future Androids at 100 percent so he doesn't even know how strong they actually are
The Present Androids are simply using more power since they are fighting a stronger Z Fighters and since Future Gohan was able to take on two suppressed Androids with one arm while Vegeta lost to one suppressed Android with both arms suggests that Future Gohan was still leagues ahead of Goku and Vegeta in The Android Saga before the Time Chamber not to mention that Future Gohan didn't have anyone to train under or any gravity room or training equipment
@@freddyjosereginomontalvo4667
Master Korin was killed by the Androids so that's out of the way
Meanwhile the current timeline’s Gohan is now capable of beating up gods of destruction. Hmmmm
Maybe, maybe not…maybe he could beat up another universes god of destruction (like Beerus told Vegeta he probably could be destroyer in another uni lol))
I think also gohan was trying to pull a vegeta by hurting himself to near death for a genkai boost. Which ultimately stunted his growth as he doesnt have as much time to recover and get back up. In addition, the genkai boost staginate after a while
Well, gohan, piccolo and goku trained hard for 3 years following trunks telling them about the androids. In the alternate timeline they were unaware and it’s doubtful gohan started training till he heard multiple of the fighters were killed. He was doubtless super rusty and didn’t know how to train at a level he could beat the androids
Yes. Plus since Cell never arrived there, and Goku was already dead, he also never trained in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, which we know has higher gravity and lower air so training there is way more effectiv than training on earth for a year. Plus he never learned the perfected super saiyan that Goku and him got in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber either.
Even future vegeta who also become super saiyan got beaten because he didnt train as hard as the og timeline
Gohan was a kid and the only one surving any of this, including Vegeta. Became super saiyan on his own, trained trunks to become one as well. If Goku wasnt such a hit in japan $$, gohan was supposed to take the mantal. Plot armor cant be beat however. Its still the goku show
Another thing to consider is the lack of the Time Chamber.
Damn didn't know Toriyama gave so much detail regarding ki with just those 3 terms. I still miss him
He was stronger than Vegeta, that's for sure.
You know, that explanation about Ki is something I'd never heard before, and it makes a LOT of sense.
Same and you can make the debate it’s why Goku usually defeats Vegeta. Goku has the superior right mindedness
Wahnsinn, was ein krasser run. Hat mega Spaß gemacht ihn zu schauen!
It wode be beter to make it a co-op pve, baze on the plot, with extraction shoter elements, and like evry mision/mach impacts the lore.
Man, I miss Puddleha- I mean Future Gohan.
Yeah, I'm so glad you brought up the spiritual aspect of Qi n what Toriyama said it was. Always fascinated me
The concept of the body, the spirit, and the mind being their own aspects of Ki is rad as hell. Too bad Toriyama never actually included it in the story
It literally is but okay
Fighting off two androids with one arm and was last z fighter standing, KNOWING THAT AND SAYING HE IS WEAK IS WILD
I also imagine the lack of resources they could scavenge with the looming threat of andriods finding them, and we all know how much sayians need to eat, so there also could be some level of malnutrition in it too
I think two other big reasons are the androids and gohan’s loss of an arm. The future androids were a lot more ruthless and blood thirsty than the present ones and gohan losing his arm made him a lot weaker.
The writers forgot his zenkai boost out anger that knocked Nappa, 2nd form Frieza, and 3rd form Frieza
Real reason is actually Cell. In present timeline Androids had to run away from Cell, in future they didn't
@@Just_B0red You couldn't be more wrong. Whatever the reason is, it's not because Cell was hunting them in the present timeline. Didn't you notice? They didn't know anything about Cell, and their demeanor's already different way before Cell spotted them with Piccolo during the battle against 17
It’s because
1. No senzu beans so injuries had to be recovered the old fashioned way… vastly limiting zenkai boosts
2. As the strongest warrior left on earth he had no good training partners to actually push him
3. As he was also hiding from the androids, I can’t imagine he could really push his limits to their max in training without getting the attention of the androids.
4. It’s stated that true power is a combination of spirit, mind, and body. Gohan’s spirit at this point in time was relatively weak considering he’d lost everyone he ever knew
i remember you made another Video on this 4 years ago
also this is a bit more excusable in the anime since Anime Future Gohan is way stronger than than Future Gohan in the Manga.
He knows how to train he trained with piccolo and krillin in mental image on Kami spaceship. But I think he reached super saiyan early after seeing piccolo dead. But spent a lot of years trying to master to go into the form. Plus he was probably busy saving human lives.
My boi had everything fighting against him. Yet he still pushed to fight for what was right
Even present Gohan doesn't really train himself. He still used Piccolo as a teacher even when he was leagues above Piccolo he still needed him to train him. The closest thing to self training he did was with the Z sword but it was also under the Kai's and Goku's supervision.
Doesn't need to train anymore. Once old Kai unlocked his power he was maxed out.
@@deckzone3000 except when he got weaker from not training and then got stronger after training.
I mainly thought it was the hypothetic time changer. Because if I’m not wrong, they lose it very early in the alternate timeline. so he didn’t have the same conditions nor the same teachers&time
I’ve always considered it’s because he could never truly rest he would basically constantly be on edge and roshi and goku both say that you need rest to properly train
This reminds me to a friend that liked to draw and he's been doing it for 5 years and unfortunately he almost never improved, this is because he was studying... But not properly
As u said,there will be always be compatible partners,so a compatible partner will respect ur decision and life choices and not force u to do things which you have trouble doing.
Still I will say "suffering from success"
IMO is the same reason why every saiyan before the extintion was so weak, the constant pressure decreases you are not going to produce s-cells
Plus maybe, with all the battles they went through with the z fighters and later gohan, future android 17 and 18 may have become stronger over time, and they may have even started training when they noticed gohan getting zenkai boosts.
No future 17 and 18 are explicitly stated to be weaker than the present cyborgs 17 and 18. The reason future gohan was so immensely weaker is because he never went to rosat, and he never had the crazy non-stop 3 year training with piccolo and goku before 19 and 20 showed up.
I think it is that all at once he became the strongest one within his circle. There was nobody to show him the right path through training obstacles that some of the others had already navigated, and he also had nobody strong to spar with to develop himself
It kinda shows that no matter how much you train/practice by yourself, if you don't have someone/something to guide you, it won't be as productive
He could only do regular training though as raising his Ki too much would give away his location to the Androids.
Also the lookout was destroyed so there was no hyperbolic time chamber.
He should’ve asked Bulma to build him a gravity room or something
He did well to get that far with no hyperbolic time chamber or gravity room. Also Goku’s training methods that he learned from gods suited Gohan more since they are Father and Son.
I'd say it's just what writers needed
It's interesting when someone explain one character something we don't know
My guess is that when sayains can sense and are in the presence of others with strong ki their bodies can quickly adjust to meet those levels. However, the androids cannot be sensed and all the other strong powers died, leaving Gohan to have no one else with comparable powers to reference and help him grow.
His only training experience after the death of piccolo was getting his ass handed to him by the androids for years i'm impressed that he managed to train Trunks at all. And now that i mention him you can see the contrast of an experienced fighter against someone that fights to survive, when Vegeta decided to train his son Trunks he managed to defeat the Androids as if they were nothing.
Plus i imagine him trying to save people cuts into the training a lot.
Future Gohan never traines for 3 years to prepare for the androids. Instead he had some time being a kid, then his father died. Then androids appeared and killed everyone.
Then he never trained in the time chamber whose dangerous enviroment aids in training.
He never taught hinself perfect control over super saiyan or did any other training suggested by Goku.
Instead at the start of the android attack he was probably much weaker than he was at the end of Namek.
This was boosted by super saiyan, then further boosted by his rage. Then he was probably depressed not helping him.
He never controlled his rage.
Then he had to train himself, and probably couldn't rely on zenkai boosts, because if he got injured enough to get a boost... he was probably going to get killed.
He still became decently strong.
But it makes perfect that he wasn't that strong.
Training for a year in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber with Goku is completely different than training by himself for a year. Since Cell didn’t go back to the past in Future Gohan’s timeline, he didn’t get the training with Piccolo and Goku before the Androids arrived and didn’t get the Time Chamber training either. That’s a significant cause right there because it was a full year in the chamber with Goku pushing him and a couple years before that with both Goku and Piccolo that Future Gohan never got. Plus, present timeline Gohan unlocked not only Super Saiyan much younger, but he also unlocked SS2 and Future Gohan never did.
Don’t forget that he didn’t have much of a fighters mind. And the fact that he didn’t have Piccolo to teach him anymore or a proper sparring partner affected him much too.
Trunks learned from his mistakes and what followed the advice he got from Goku, Vegeta and even Cell. Since no experienced Z-fighter lived to teach him, he couldn’t improve his powers to its full potential. 😢
This may be a weaker Gohan (due to circumstances mostly outside his control) but he is the COOLER and far more compelling Gohan by about 100 fold.
Gotta remember the writing is also doodoo butter and there are conflicting reports on power level scaling (which is trash anyways).
Never forget.
I think all the experiences and build up in character progression had everyone pumped for Gohan. Now he's a sayain nerd...
Gohan has always been my favorite Z warrior but the future Gohan was just so cool, basically John Conner as a saiyan. I like the idea where they have Future Gohan Black, a Gohan who couldnt solve the Android issue in his timeline and watches everyone he loves die, so he travels through time to train and become strong enough to challenge Goku and kick his ass for not only causing everything to happen, but also for not being there to protect them. I think the Rosé form would've been a cool way to show that Gohan trained in places and woth people throughout time that taught him how to harness his power differently.
I also would say that Gohan being in survival mode for that long probably made him weaker, too. For one, he probably couldn’t eat right, and his stress levels were likely through the roof. He was also constantly pushing himself to save people. Part of his huge boost in power in the Cell Saga was being able to just take time out and train without a lot of stress, with plenty of food, and obviously with Goku pushing him knowing how to unlock his potential properly. He also just had no one better than him to aspire to, and having his ass beat by the androids probably didn’t give him much gain (and perhaps hindered him by giving him chronic injuries) since zenkai boost returns seemed to lessen to the point they were negligible after Super Saiyan tier power levels were achieved.
In the cell saga Goku took one year getting Gohan to surpass him but without that training his potential was incredibly hindered. Simply having a sparring partner is very important for training as well.
remember, when goku died in their world it was around the same time or after (need to look back into that) that the androids attacked BUT they never trained for it because they didnt know they were comming