Id Software Publicly Dumps Mick Gordon After Doom Eternal OST Dramas
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- Опубликовано: 9 фев 2025
- Lamon Gamon!!!
I.D has hit back to clarify what happened with the OST for Doom Eternal.
Come and say g'day/follow us @ / laymengaming
New channel- • Mythic Quest Review
Edited by Austin Bolliger ( / ausomehd
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Very polite response from Id. Almost unreal in these times of masochistic and tone deaf PR.
Vietnam flashbacks to EA and 4A Studios
And this is coming from someone who loves Metro Exodus
I was literally thinking the same thing. It's kind of sad to see that this level of professionalism isnt the norm in the Gaming industry. Most of the time they're just blatantly lying with sugar coated BS
ID are cut from a different cloth. That's why doom eternal was a excellent game
A VERY polite response. Some would think - too polite...
Looks like quarantine turned Yong into two Aussies, strange times indeed
When he said "We're gonna full Yong it today" I lost it laughing
Jose Velez Montoya
He used mitosis to cover double the news.
I'm sort of lost on this. Why do they have such a hard-on for Yong? I have frequently noticed them mentioning him, usually in a negative light so doesn't look too friendly tbh.
Since I haven't seen Yong doing the same about them then it leaves a rather bad aftertaste...
Or maybe Yong choked their cats during an orgy or something but it was before I've started watching these channels so... I got left out but actually it's some feud since?
@@Kokuyous3ki Yong gets deep into the news from beginning to end with a lot of quotes and chronological timelines mixed with his commentary. He does great on this front considering he even got kudos from Skyrim Grandma (for having the best coverage of the nonsense she goes through). I prefer to listen to these guys for the light hearted tone, but I have zero expectations of them being as thorough as Yong (I'm a new subscriber running through the backlog)
EDIT: In the end, it's a matter of taste. Yong is out doing his stuff and layman are doing their own stuff
It's part of the business. Mick was not working for id Software, but he was hired to create the OST, so we don't know what went wrong on his side. Could be anything, another project (Doom Eternal in game music was already been completed) or personal problems, you can name it. It happens. What really strikes me that his comments on social media started a witch hunt against Chad and id/Bethesda and he did nothing to correct it...
Lol I love how this started on him answering a question and the fans went out and attack everything in site
I imagine he wanted people to not notice, but when they did and his image was at stake, he fed into the suggestion it was someone else's fault to maintain the fame he'd grown accustomed to, and that blew up in his face when people took up arms over it. It also sounds like Id wanted him to correct the mistake but when he failed to do so, we got this statement. There's nothing Mick can say now unless he calls them liars which will be hard to prove given everything Id has said lines up with past tweets and messages to collaborate the story. His best bet is to hide his head and let his fans be in denial/continue attacking Id so he can avoid ruining the fame that's gone to his head if he's in the wrong.
phant0m92 They had no other choice unless they wanted to be liable for refunds and possibly even a lawsuit over an incomplete advertised product. Whatever they paid Mick would certainly be chump change compared to giving refunds as well as potential legal fees
@Hannyabal HAhahahaha are you insane?? They already have signed CONTRACTS with distributors. This will cost them INSANE amount of cash and PR.
Let me explain to you in a way you would understand. You sign a contract with amazing contractor to paint your house and do repairs. He tells you it will be 2 months. You say ok.
2 months are up and your house is not done. He now tells you he needs 6 more weeks. At this point you would be pissed. But furthermore he tells you that he would paint and fix actually half the rooms and not in a color you wanted....so you better get in there and start painting the rooms he is not.
Tell me - are you actually going to tell him to take his time (6 weeks late now) or are you gonna want to get in your house and fire the painter? Also he still demands the full payment....
@Hannyabal No. Mutually accepted deadline with bonus for on time delivery. Missed. Extended deadline with bonuses intact. Missed. Drop dead date where id Soft could run into regulatory problems for false advertisement. Gordon still did not deliver.
Not sure what you're not getting here.
If instead of shirking responsibilities and distancing himself from the consequences, if Mick had tweeted taking responsibility for the delay when id originally said the OST would release after the CE, and just told fans that he needed more time to give them the "best of Mick" I'm quite sure the fans would have been more understanding. Now it looks like he played them, and jilted fans will ruin your legacy a lot quicker than a broken contract or a bad album.
He literally did say the album needed more time on his youtube channel.
@@dony2852 While he was still mastering it? That's fair, it's still hard to blame id for anything though. What I don't get is that they literally did all this once before and it was fine. Both sides had practice at this exact scenario and you would think both id and Mick would know how long the mastering would/should take and make plans accordingly.
Right? It seems like he totally screwed himself by trying to be dishonest and shift blame to id and Marty. Shame.
The root cause is the collector's edition promising the OST would be included. 2016 didn't have the OST included in its collector's edition and came out many months after the game. Id's expectations were likely flawed as well since the album is twice as long this time. Mick apparently thought given the time frame that it would be closer to the 2016's length but got a rude awakening when Id sent over their tracks and it clocked in at more than 4 hours.
Imagine reading a corporation public relation agent statment and blindly believing what he says.
“ We are the kings of Bethesda bad.”
I think Jim Sterling would like a word with you.
☆☆☆☆☆TIME TO SHIT ON BETHESDA☆☆☆☆☆
Marty handled the situation above and beyond what was necessary for all parties involved. I wish there were more people with the level of personal skills in upper management like this. Bravo sir
Marty 2020
He, Hugo and overall ID great guys, cool dudes.
Not so much, while it's clear Marty tried to put good faith on Mick and got too tolerant on Mick's delays, he should not have. Instead, rescinding Mick's contract as soon as the delays started to get worrisome and simply hire someone else to finish his job. Marty was actually incompetent, though he did mean well.
@@yutro213 well no in a situation like this you accept a delay or two to show you have confidence in the artist but him putting in place a backup (Chad) it shows he was doing his job
Mick isn't some new guy he did the ost for doom 2016 id rightfully expected the same quality he said he could deliver...he didn't
@@yutro213 Not that easy lol
Well Bethesda ego is bad but the Id was probably good here.
Hell, they were willing to break the contract, and technically by doing so break the law, by giving him not one but two extensions.
This comment is so smart, I feel smarter for having 'liked' it.
Bethesda are still massive assholes. id have always been pretty cool.
Well played. It's been a while since I've heard these terms
Bethesda always bad
I've said this before, but this bloody thing is like watching your parents divorce. All you can do is sit there and watch the folks you love part ways in the most spiteful of ways - while unintentionally putting the kids (the fans) to choose sides. Fuck that, I still love you both - even if I have to do it separately.
My parents haven't gotten divorced but i understand the feeling..
@@ashwin.unlead Just to clarify.....are your parents married and *to each other* ?
@@adreanmarantz2103 yup.
Had to do that twice.
Better to not be married and not have a divorce.
Happened early enough for me that I never felt they cared about each other, but both clearly cared about me. Hated each other when they spoke, but both would never dare to say the other didn't care.
Seems to me that Mick Gordon just burned a bridge over nothing
.
.
.
.
.
Feels like a golf club to the head
@Dillon Perry that sounds like the last of us, too
This comment seems to be leaking something...
@@cjh0050 exactly... they are busy shooting themselves in the foot and digging their own grave lmao
Legend
LOL
Me when the OST controversy started: BETHESDA BAD!
Me when Marty's letter drops: "Are we the baddies?"
It is still possible that Bethesda screwed up Mick. We don't know the full story. Just because somebody posted some story does not mean it is the full truth. There might be more to it.
Honestly, if Bethesda didn't fucking up so hard for so long, like the second coming of EA, perhaps people wouldn't have hounded their shit.
This might not have happened if Bethesda didn't ruin their reputation.
Like they fucked up it's drm.
And made it available for piracy WITHOUT any issue.
So, us assuming the worst was the sign of pattern recognition.
I'm still waiting for more info before I decide.
But somehow, someway, I believe Bethesda fucked everyone, and everything up.
Even if it wasn't Micks fault (which it kinda was) it would have been id's vault not Bethesda!
@@Murderbits that was id not Bethesda. Bethesda doesn't work on Doom at all.
@@pinkfloydmeddle6692 Bethesda still fucked up it's DRM, allowing immediate piracy of Doom Eternal.
Somehow, someway Bethesda finds a way... To fuck up.
That's a very violent title for the courteous response they gave to Reddit though.
Gotta stay relevant somehow. I hate click bait titles. Marty wrote out a great explanation. The situation sucks but shit happens as they always say.
They, and especially Skillup, always had ultra-cringe clickbait titles...
Im fine with the title personally have no problem with click bait titles.
@@haemorrhoid1989 ironically, ShillUp made fun of clickbait before.
A lot of Skill up reviews have perfect titles. Laymen...not so much.
I use to play in a punk band professionally when i was younger. The one full length album we released while i played in the band, mixing was by far the biggest pain in the ass lol. We had one guy record the drums wrong too and had to go back and do it in a traditional way (he tried to use one overhead mic cuz "The Beatles did it this way") but even once we got that done, he mixed it all messed up with 0 bass in the kick drum - we played it in a car to see how most would hear it, and it sounded like tinny, garbled mess. We had to hire a whole seperate studio and re-record EVERYTHING to mix it because we couldnt get any decent raw files. We recorded it, but the guy we had mix it killed it, and it sounded better than the first 3 track EP we recorded years prior. So yeah, mixing is super important, especially in heavy or more rock oriented stuff. Hell, its important live.
The main thing to take from this is, jumping to conclusions is bad mmkay.
Took you this long in life to figure that out ?
@@fleeplayTV I'm sure he's just saying it for others
Doot Slayer social media runs on that platform. Controversy, taken out of context, while jumping to conclusions
@@fleeplayTV Explaining it for the slow minded. Thanks for the reply.
@@AussieZeKieL Yup its like mental ejaculation. Getting high on that drama supply.
Wow.
Mad respect for id Software to treat us like adults! That amount of open communication is really refreshing and great to see.
Well you weren't wrong about that. You were definitely treated like an adult. How do you feel about it now?
Care to edit?
First things first: We're dealing with talented musicians here.
Egos almost certainly play some sort of role here.
Ego is permissable when you can deliver on it... when you don't/can't... well... look up Axl Rose.
@@BaldyAngry I don't know if you know this, but they gave him plenty of time, hell even two more extensions of time to get it done, but Mick became lazy and fell short of his part of the deal. What was ID going to do? Push Doom's release date further and risk losing every bit of money for the sake of Mick being a lazyass? HELL NO! He had time, plenty at that, and he didn't hold up. Now he's shifting the blame towards ID and basically telling his fans to witchhunt them, which is a total asshole move imo. The people at ID are such kind-hearted people, only wanting the best for their fans, but Mick is just a selfish cunt basket who let fame get into his head.
@@BaldyAngry He was a contracted artist. He had a contract, an agreed upon scope of work and an agreed upon time frame. He missed the first deadline and was given an extension with 'on time delivery' bonus *intact* AS WELL AS the game had already been delayed by 5 months. He is a commercial artist in this case. He wasn't making music for SoundCloud or RUclips. He DID NOT deliver the product he promised in quality *OR* quality in the timeframe he said he would and promised he could.
@@BaldyAngry If you're a contracted artist you do not have the leisure to take your time on a project, especially after given an extension
@@BaldyAngry you can't rush art? Fucking lier wasn't told at last minute to do it. He asked for more time. They accepted. He said only few were complete. They were disappointed but still compromised.
This douche made us believe he was cheated.
All he needed was to own his mistake.
Douche. Fucking douche.
Sounds like each party had issues working with the other, to one extent or another. This is the most common thing in the world for big projects. Hopefully future soundtracks remain good, but gameplay will always be my driving interest for DOOM games.
Yup, the gameplay is the soul of DOOM. The gameplay is the thing that drives DOOM. Hopefully they find a way to fix this though.
DrearierSpider1 For me it is a mixture of the music and gameplay. The original doom games wouldnt be as fun without the amazing soundtrack and so would the new ones.
@Stasss I'm going under a worst case assumption that the music going forward will be considered good, but not up to Mick's level. If the music downright sucks, the game will suffer tremendously, especially considering the series history.
There are plenty of great artists to fill in, I'm not worried in the slightest. It won't be the same as with Mick, sure, but to think the music would suddenly suck because this one man isn't doing it anymore is insane. It's possible it turns out shit but that's unlikely, it will probably be good, and if we're lucky it'll be great.
Issues like Bathesda using hip hop instead of Mick music on TV ads and trailer to look more progressive. Mick music is part of the gameplay.
Yeah, I was guilty in instantly assuming "oh that wacky Bethesda, more like Bugthesda" messing yet another thing up, but I guess multiple people were to blame, Mick partly for biting off more than he could chew with getting the Soundtrack done on time maybe.
Re-reading this makes me feel like Mick comes off as... passive aggressive? the moment id's backup plan was mentioned..
Sadly many talanted people are..
Yeah.. like oh you’re trying to mess with my tracks? forget the 30 I mentioned earlier since you don’t need me 🙃
It's not like ID have used Hip Hop garbage in Doom Trailer and tv spots because his music is considered "white people music" by Bethesda SJW... but sure he is the asshole.
@@yasmina1198 haha did a spoilt kid tantrum and left the scene.
Renette Descartes he has a contract he can’t make promises and suddenly backtrack that’s just how it is personal drama aside
I read Marty's post a couple of hours ago. Up until now, I was pro-Mick. He's a great composer and you can tell that he's a perfectionist, and I respect that. I don't think any fan would mind waiting to get the proper Mick product than getting a half arsed effort. After reading Marty's reddit post earlier today, I can only feel disappointed. Mick asked for a four week extension to complete his work and id gave him six weeks to complete! I can't feel but think how Mick could have underestimated the time, he had experience from Doom 2016 so I'm not sure why this time around things would be significantly different. It's a shame that it ended this way, but it does also feel that id did all they could to satisfy Mick, the consumer and Bethesda. Sadly there's no pleasing anyone.
As a businiess I dont see what more they could have done, I feel it could have been avoided if they just didnt release the soundtrack with the game or maybe say that when you get this "edition" you'll get the soundtrack later, but maybe mick agreed to it saying it can be done for all we know. What left me confused is how he didn't take any responsibility for it, he could have said he was helped by Chad to deliver the work on time, that he worked with what he had and it wouldnt have been done without him. Saying that or something like it could have avoided allof this mess.
What I don't get is why Mick wanted to make so much music when it wasn't do-able for the deadline. He should've aimed for the 12 required and nothing more.
@@Vynzent One theory could be that he misprioritised what tracks to have added to the soundtrack and tried to get the hard ones done first instead of the ones people would have actually wanted which would explain why the number went up.
@@Vynzent I know right? You're behind schedule and promise to deliver more? I'm shocked that id actually went along with that to be honest.
@@drunkenhowler22 Yeah I agree. The soundtrack for Doom 2016 came out maybe 5 months later than the game. The fans won't care so long as they get the quality product they asked for. The same can be said for this case, but it likely wasn't tolerated by Bethesda (ie fallout canvas bag) as they just want to ship something because of the refund laws as discussed in the video. After all of this I've thought about my stance and to be honest, there's no way I can resent id for what they did and am happy they addressed the fans the way the did. I wouldn't have a problem buying the dlc but I'll wait and see what content is going to be included.
Art 101
You can rush art
Marketing 101
Time is money
Business 101
Deliver what you agreed on getting paid for.
id just like to point out that chad should go from zero to hero right now with this bbrought to light. considering what was he working with, and the time restrictions - he actually did good job
Yeah, he was pretty much forced to work with the compressed files and still managed to to a decent job on some of the songs. Also, I think he volunteered to do it as well.
Lead audio designer of Doom games. The guy is legend.
@@musicxxa6678 Dam , so he is one of the og ? , he has worked with the classic dooms too ?
@@keganmemestar4465 what means volunteering when he was paid salary for it?
@@shadowcheto85 he means volunteering with the responsibility you dumb fuck.
I like how the people commenting forgot they were dissing id software before, acting like rational human beings. Guess that's the mob mentality I've seen in the books.
Pretty scary and disappointing.
Absolutely . But its also pretty telling how distrustful people are generally of video game companies now .
They would trust a random youtuber or a post if it talked shit of a video game company because thats just how much of a shitty reputation they have created for themselves.
I think Id software wouldnt have gotten as much of a flak if it had not been part of Bethesda . Parent companys reputation passes onto the child.
The only company that I can think of that has excellent PR while putting out excellent games is CDPR.
Some mad respect to Chad, who by my estimate from the statement, mixed 59 tracks in three weeks in addition to his normal job. Makes you wonder what the hell Mick was doing when Chad did 190% of work expected in three weeks instead of the three months they gave Mick. It's no wonder Marty came out to defend him.
Absolute Chad
Yeah so what it sounds like dogshit. The point is he shat it out nice and fast like a big meaty fireball. Props to that. Gotta get that quick buck for Bethesda. People will protest, but people are also fickle. Pathetically fickle, and in this industry if you know how to play them they'll always pay you.
@@justiciar1964 You're implying the "nice and fast" wasn't a necessity brought about by a complete lack of communication on Mick's part from what we know about this situation.
I mean I could mix and master a track in 10 minutes, it would just sound like shit, based on how much better the mixing and mastering is on Micks tracks I'm pretty sure Mick was putting in just as much work as Chad, he's likely just got too obsessed with making things sound perfect, got out of his depth and wasn't used to working to such a concrete deadline. I personally think Mick should've never accepted the contract after they promised the OST would come with the collectors edition. That was his big mistake here
@@ClikcerProductions exactly was it Mick's ego that bit him in the end or bethesda pushing for it threatening his position? but if you want a masterpiece you can't rush the process or else it'll sound like shit which it does.
if The Prodigy can produce smack my bitch up in two hours, why does it take this Mick guy 10 months to play three chords on a guitar? This is the kind of metal you can pump out a full song in a week or less.
Whoever wrote that PR letter from ID is incredible. Best response I've heard from a developer in a while.
I think a fair few eyes passed over it - it was extremely carefully worded :)
Sam D
Sort of I guess, the real OG’s (Founders of ID) all left, the very last being John Carmack before leaving for oculus.
Turns out it was mostly bs.
At least chad tried to deliver something. Id like to see mick's side but really sounds like he didn't deliver at all what was promised and they had to just release something.
I have a different reading. Chad was “asked” to help Mick. They presented some cuts of music, and Mick said fine, assuming either that that would be no more than 6 more tracks, or that it’s not the final version. The problem is that Chad is nowhere near as good as Mick, and it can work if it’s a small subset of tracks. Not the bulk of the album.
Bethesda wanted to pump out the soundtrack as fast as possible and as is typical with Bethesda they released a subpar product.
Mick was all ready given an extension to finish I think.
@@aleksandrpetrosyan1140 you keep repeating this shit everywhere. He did not have the fucking source material. It is not about being as good or not. He literally was not given the shit he needed to make it better quality.
@@mewc0re you keep repeating the same shit everywhere. He *was* given source material on the sound effects for Prey, Doom 2016, Quake Champions and Wolfenstein 2. Yet he made the same mistakes. I don’t think he knows that there is a difference. If there was - he’d be smart enough to complain to Marty and say “I need the sources, or it’s not gonna be as good”. Or ask Mick, which if he did would be 100% his headlining defence. He doesn’t. That’s not the issue. The issue is that he’s not a music guy to begin with. He wasn’t supposed to do this work, he was most likely coerced and he now gets flak for some etching that isn’t really even his job.
If true, the narrative purposed by this open letter paints Gordon to a far worse stance versus id. Seems like id really did attempt to work with Gordon. Gordon just seems to had not delivered upon an agreement. This Stratton laid it out very well, if true, for id's case.
Nothing is worse than ID and Bethesda using Hip Hop for the Doom marketing instead of Mick music. That was unacceptable.
Mick should have just shit on their faces instead of dragging the relationship to force them to leave first.
Not really, all we see is two parties who couldn't manage deadlines. What kind of publisher sets a SINGLE date for an ENTIRE product, without actually managing the project? Mick is not with a label, he doesn't have support staff. Bethesda absolutely should have set a schedule for delivery and assigned someone to manage the project instead of giving Mick, one single dude, one date to get everything done by. Maybe Mick didn't deliver on time, it's clear he was in over his head. But at this time we do only have Bethesda's side, and even from their side it's clear there was NO oversight. They dropped the ball here, no matter what Mick's involvement was.
@@clixx13 Well...it was Mick who signed the contract
It seems like Mick get a lot of respect from ID but he didn't respect to ID.
@@keganmemestar4465 Agreed. You get signed a contract and got a stack of bills. One thing to not fully deliver, but he threw gas on a matchstick of a fire for really no reason.
This is interesting because being an audio engineer myself on first listen EDIT: of Chad's mix of The Only Thing They Fear Is You I didn't notice much that sounded out of place. In fact it's a very serviceable edit and the production is fine given that lots of music these days is quite heavily compressed. I did find it strange that he said that track had "been edited by someone with no musical knowledge" considering that it sounds just fine, great in fact. I feel bad for the Chad because he's done a really good job and if this all turns out to be true it explains a lot to why the soundtrack sounds very listenable considering Mick is trashing it so hard. Poor old Chad.
The Only Thing They Fear Is You is one of the track that Gordon mixed.
@@BaldyAngry Yeah I've heard both they're different sure but one of them isn't like indescribably bad which is explained by the fact that it apparently wasn't "just some guy from marketing". It's not like top tier editing or anything but it's fine for what it is and had it not been pointed out a casual listener wouldn't know.
@@BaldyAngry Okay. I'm just saying Chad did the best with what he could apparently and he didn't do a terrible job.
@@BaldyAngry you do realize Chad didn't have the source files right? He had to work with the compressed versions. You have no idea what he could have done if he was working with the same files as Mick. So maybe don't jump to criticize him.
@@petereldredge2329 I'm not sure if this is absolutely the case but in the video, it's implied that The Chad only had already mixed down tracks to work with. If that's the case, any attempt to address a mixing or compression issue is going to be remedial at best, and cannot ever be corrected entirely. The fact that the tracks are even presentable to a paying customer is kind of a miracle...
While I don't know what happened between Mick and iD specifically, and won't speculate on it, I do know that he fully intended to have the OST finished up and delivered by March. I was commissioned to master the planned 2-hours worth of music, and we had a fairly detailed timeline drawn up, leading to the final release in late March. None of which would ultimately eventuate. I can only speculate as to why, but when I spoke to Mick afterward, he seemed genuinely surprised and somewhat bewildered at what had been released. I never got the impression that he was attempting to pull a 'fast one' on the fans, otherwise I never would've been commissioned in the first place. It's a shame how it all turned out, but hopefully at some point he gets to tell his side of the story too.
What I'm interested in is why did Marty mention that the tracks "mixed" by id were samples pre-mixed and compressed by Mick for the game and later stitched together for the OST when its evident to anyone who has normal hearing and perfectly functioning ears that the in-game tracks are a lot deeper and dynamic than the ones on the OST?
Mick Gordon: "I won't be working with Id or Bethesda ever again"
DOOM Community: *loads shotgun with malicious intent*
Id: "We gave him more than too much time and he still refused to deliver on the promise and even shined us in a false light"
DOOM Community: ...... *aims Shotgun at Mick*
Mick never said anything shining them in a false light, he said the bad sounding tracks weren't made by him (They weren't) and that he didn't plan to work with id/Bethesda again (Which is completely his choice). This whole situation just shows how toxic the internet has become with "cancel culture" and the like. I also fully understand Mick not wanting to work with them again. They promised the OST with the CE when he wasn't even under contract yet. If he had declined the contract this shit storm would've just been directed entirely at him as people who wanted the OST wanted Micks work. Mick hasn't worked with strict deadlines like that before with an OST release and being forced into it putting him off just kinda makes sense
Waiting for the "Virgin Mick Gordon vs the Chad ID audio engineer" memes.
ID's audio engineer is actually Chad. His name is Chad mossholder.
@@ThePunter209 You just ruined the joke, thanks Cpt Obvious
@@ThePunter209 WHOOSH
@@ThePunter209 bruh
Time to revisit this as Mick Gordon came back and took a sledge hammer to Marty Strattonopen letter.
"We're there for the sh*t where we turn it up loud and drive down the street and people look at us thinkin', `What a f**kin' badass, I wish that guy would invite me to his car.`"
Finally, someone gets my struggle.
"These things happen with artists" is certainly true, and I think id and Marty was also being quite understanding of that with how they allowed the delivery date extension, and even at the last part where they came up with the plan to let his 12th track be released later, and not demanding the other 18 tracks.
If I had to guess from Mick's perspective and what Mick has been doing, he was probably very distraught at the reception of the soundtrack, felt he had failed the fans and was trying to alleviate the disappointment of the fans by saying he didn't mix most of them. And what he said about probably not going to work with id again is probably not because he don't want to, but because he knew he screwed up so bad id would probably not work with him again.
The Yong jabs lol ...i swear his videos are like watching Reading Rainbow
"I am a reading machine with no opinion whatsoever".
I know Yong is not saying a thing against Sony because he fears backlash for his voice acting career (he is trying to enter in the anime dubbing community, and it is daddy Sony who leads the shit behind Funimation and other shit).
But man, oh man. He did show being a shill during the last of us part 2 leak debacle. The guy didn't take any kind of stand there. He could straight defended it, or attacking. He refused to say a word about the pandering hidden agenda behind the game, or the fact that the characters that made the story special are shat on. But then I remember he lives in California, where it's blooming with this shit of using good established IPs and put some hidden political agenda into them, stripping the work from everything that made it good in the first place.
Yeah, hes sold out so fast, I'm sure if EA threw something his way, he would start praising them also
@@Nero_PR he did address it but okay, keep making shit up
@@kngowo9541 adressing it and giving a take is two verry different things.
@@Nero_PR He doesnt have to? He just reported on the issue. Not everyone needs to take a stand in a video about gaming controversy. Also with tlou part 2 he was very against spoiling the game for both himself and others and was actively avoiding it. So I doubt hes actually seen any of the things you were complaining about
I feel like the huge success of the 2016 ost went to micks head and he bit off more than he could chew in a tighter time frame for eternal, or he just got lazy/hit a road block
I definitely think lazy.
He already wrote the songs. Like now it's the grind part of mixing and mastering. The creative part happened before the game came out.
So basically he over estimated himself and boasted he could do more than he could, and then k pt making up excuses when his own ability fell short due to problems he couldn't forsee.
Ambient tracks are usually my favorite from any game, and it's sad to me when they get omitted from a soundtrack.
As sad as that is for a lot of people that Mick Gordon and id Software are parting ways, think about this...imagine the amount of complete bands that could not only write instrumental tracks, but add vocals as well to new Doom soundtracks in the future. That list has gotta be enormous of bands chomping at the bit to be on the Doom "3" soundtrack. That'd be sick.
Your professions/skills made this episode a lot better than I anticipated.
Having a musician and a writer, both with a noticeable degree of knowledge of the discussed topics, was really delightful.
Not jumping to conclusion whaaat that not how internet work
Just scroll through the comments here. Jumped to conclusions just by Marty's comment
Considering the fact that doom eternal was originally dated for November, he's had a further 5 months to get it done, but good on ID putting this statement out tho
That would only matter if he was contracted for day one to mix the OST, which it doesn't sound like he was.
You you _didn't_ consider the _fact_ ID only made a contract with Mick gordon to mix the the soundtrack of DOOM Eternal in JANUARY. So no, Mick, regardless of how he worked, did NOT have the proper time to get this job done.
@@yutro213 they gave him multiple extensions on the due date.
@@yutro213 He actually thought he would deliver and signed the contract, he also got multiple extensions of time and he did not delivered.
@@danriu Fine, that was his mistake but even so id Software acted wrong; since there was such a tight deadline id should have been *pragmatic* and rescinded his contract as soon as possible, making Mick delivered all material he had, finished or not, and hire a new, more competent, specialized mixer to finish the job on time.
Imo Mick fcked it up and couldn't deliver the promised stuff in time but more importantly he shamelessly put ID, Doom Eternal and Chad in a very bad position.
Care to revise that? Check out Mick's receipts if you don't know what I mean.
I'm eager to hear a response from Mick. I'd like to hear what could have caused the delays, why he agreed to a potentially strenuous time frame, and what part in all of it Id or Bathesda may have played that hasn't been outlined already. The fact that they went into it expecting only 12 of the 59 tracks to be done by Mick is kind of underwhelming right out of the gate. You'd think that at least the majority of them would have been Mick's work, not less than a quarter. When I was in college I studied music performance as well as music technology, which included a lot of audio mixing. Probably not on the level he is using for these soundtracks, but still kinda of nuts to hear that it took 3 months for 9 tracks. Not to write them, just to mix them. That's just kind of bonkers to me. I'm honestly wondering, like you guys said, if he wasn't just being a pain in the ass perfectionist about it. Hopefully he has a response to clarify his side of things and also erase some of the animosity people have directed towards this Chad.
To me it sounds like they wanted the full OST to be at least 12 tracks (but probably expected Mick to make more than that), the other ones were there because Mick prioritised the ambient tracks and id rushed to get some more combat music in there and Chad probably didn't expect all of them to be used in release. I don't think they originally planned for 59 tracks due to the 12 in the original contract. Let's be real, not even fans want 59 tracks they'd rather have 12 or so of the best mixed nicely which would be pretty normal for an album.
@@maximilliannewcombe1719 Oh for sure, nobody expected or wanted 59 tracks. But to be fair, Mick Gordan did do all 31 tracks on the previous soundtrack, mixing and all. That was under the previous 6 month time frame, but it took Mick over 4 months to get out just 9 mixes for this soundtrack and the other 3 shortly after. So it's still kind of shocking to see such a low return from him on Eternal given the time frame comparison.
Supernova71288 yeah I agree, as someone who has worked in creative a little one can find work speed and motivation changing wildly even for similar projects so it could just be a product of that but I don’t want to speculate.
Well I would say Mick's Response would be a lawsuit, but Mick didn't have the same relationship with ID as Marty had with Bungle when he split.
Mick did a stream about Doom Eternal's OST on his RUclips channel, which you should check out - the soundtrack is basically a collection disjointed bits of music the game engine assembles contextually, on the fly. Editing those bits into cohesive songs is probably what would take the bulk of the time, not the mixing (which was pretty much done before the game was shipped, it was just brickwalled to hell). Maybe Doom 2016's soundtrack was a simpler affair, technically speaking, which explains the faster turnaround?
Sounds like an Ego thing on Micks part. A talented musician having an ego... never haha
It reminds me too much of Marty O'Donnell's split with (Destiny era) Bungie for me to call it that.
@@Marinealver Someone gets it
They already announced they want to make another Doom. I hope this mess won't mean a "non-metal soundtrack" for the future, which was their initial plan for 2016. That would kill the badass atmosphere.
Totally agree
Don't care whether Mick Gordon will be back for Doom in the future, but he is not the sole reason why Doom is great.
He is a huge part though. Like ruma Khan said play Eternal without music and it doesn't feel right
@@chillilakes478 I do better than that. I'll turn off the music and play Trent Reznor's Quake OST or Sonic Mayhen's Quake II OST, which I think is still the superior game OST.
I did play eternal without the ost, i barely noticed it during combat encounters so I muted it, hooked up spotify and played some Alpha Wolf instead. Improved experience.
@@hotsaucesuicide9162 You're lying
i play with music off so i can here demons behind me
2 months for ost is very very hard to deliver no matter how good musician you are. If that were a easy thing we would be getting many new albums from many artists on a yearly basis.
Perfectionist vs. Release dates.
It sucks they all had to go public. I ain't blaming either party.
MrDucktastic The only thing I blame anyone for is Mick not clarifying what was going on after his comments sort of threw Chad under the bus and started an internet shitstorm.
Honestly I really don’t care about all this artist bs that magically excuses them from any and all responsibility. I know a prick when I see one.
They went public because of Mick.
Sorry I can't believe that this isn't fabricated because we all know Bethesda doesn't care
I hope mick gives his side of the story with his own wall of text.
I really hope they'll come back and revisit this because... The matter is way more serious than we all thought it was, and we were all quick to take sides before hearing the other side.
I'm glad you understand that you were too quick to pick a side, that too the wrong one.
Times must be tough, no Ralph Lauren this week.
Well there are some inconsistences on the comunication.
1. they hire him for 12 tracks out of 59 for the ost - seems they are trying to pull a fast one there
2. they say he ofered to produce 30, they didn't say they accepted - this could be seen as a move from Mick to add more of his work in the 59
3. From the start it seems they weren't being truthful with him about what they were going to release, he only got a view after what he got from Chad who is not mentionned anyware on the credits.
4. We don't know how they got to an agreemment on the delivery dates they mention "general agreement" (words that can be worked around by layers).Maybe they forced those dates down his throat. Like do this or not work with us anymore.
5. This comunication ticks all the points of proper PR comunication. Very well edited kudos to the ID PR ppl
6. That music on the trailer...
7. THey dont mention dates when chad start working backup. They lead us to belive that Chad created 59 track between early April to 19 of april(on this stage no proper dates.)
Bonus question: if Mick got hired for at least 12 tracks how come they were releasing 59?
Sounds to me they already had an OST track want to add a few of Mick and say it was Mick, this backfired, now you see this.
I dont have any facts this is only based on the comunication and assumptions on my part.
I talk to Mick on a day to day basis and he’s the chillest man like ever.
And you, were clearly full of shit or you would have had more to say.
@@chainedscythe2000 I have screenshots of our conversations which expands from 2020 to now. I haven’t talked to him every day he’s too busy however I do talk to him. So no, I’m not full of shit and even if I was, how would one sentence of not explaining myself prove anything to a stranger on the internet who is projecting their own insecurities onto another stranger? Food for thought.
@@sukunas_shrine What insecurities? And you say I'm projecting..? Clever girl. Have a cookie. No, wait, I can"t afford it.
@@chainedscythe2000 Inconceivable! Why project your hate onto me when I’m not the reason why you are projecting hate onto others in the first place? Why not omg, mind your own business? What a concept!
@Satan’s Slytherin See, you still don't get it. Why would I hate? I don't have the capacity to hate, and then I remembered. People on the internet are weak and insecure, and they like to project and want safe spaces and stories and pink laces. Thank fortune that I do not do that way, so I offered a cookie, and olive branch to say. Then I remembered yet again, that I do not seek to care, only share what be my opinion.
So now do you see? I do not believe you, yet you think I am what you are. Only I know I'm not but what are you, wait. That wasn't right.
Just remember I exist in the night, for me but not you, or maybe yes, who can say? Only me. I share my thoughts, deep and dark. Strange yet profound, to make you shiver, and surely not come hither. Understand my words, for they have meaning, one which you will certainly not perceive.
I'm still mad that my RDR2 vinyl soundtrack has Unshaken as track 1 but without the vocals, some corporate BS reason surely.
Whoa what the hell? How many tracks is on the vinyl and is the vocal version in it on a later track?
@@Meltdownlv100 13 tracks on 2 records with 3-4 tracks on each side, all the other songs with lyrics, have lyrics.
I assume D'angelo held rights to it maybe and released it seperately, no clue...
@Nicholas Bumgardner haha ya true. I have the rdr2 score coming in the mail soon, hopefully they didn't trim out too much from that as well.
Straight up Mick didn't deliver id gave him more time and dude still didn't deliver
ID good
Mick bad
Mick double bad for trying to pass blame instead of just owning up
Shit happens but passing the blame is unacceptable, shameless act from Mick.
IMO I don't think anyone in this situation is the badguy. But if Mick can no longer work with ID then Andrew Hulshult is a good pick for a replacement. Dudes been working on these types of games for awhile. The rise of the triad, dusk, amid evil, and he has worked with ID before on quake champions.
I bought the standard edition of Doom Eternal and really enjoyed it, music included. What an unfortunate situation.....
Sam: uses professional media technique by teasing the show before the drop.
Ralph: gives him hell for it.
You guys are the best.
From what is said here, Mick was unable to deliver on a contract and ID was willing to accommodate more then fairly and still Mick was unable to meed the original agreement while still riding the "Bethesda/ID bad narrative. None of this seems good for Mick, but as you say, the truth is often somwhere in the middle.
Props to ID though for being both gracious and accommodating. I think future artists will be lucky to work with them.
Alright guys so the question is, is Sam taking the sam?
The response looks like legalese “Our challenges have never been a matter of creative differences”
*looks at the the “no metal” controversy in 2016 & Eternal TV trailer*
“-led some to vilify”
When did Mick vilify anyone. He made a simple response “I didn’t mix those and wouldn’t have done that.” Where is the context for that statement that Mick “attacked” Chad that others seem to believe?
“...we didn’t want to be involved in the content of the OST...”
Sets a timeline for the OST. Mind you they mention the OST would be part of the CE yet didn’t have Mick under contract. Mick contacts them on Feb 24. Both parties are at fault. ID for the short time to work on the OST ( look at 2016 ) & Mick for accepting this timeframe.
As for the arrangement, didn’t fans notice the songs were out of order? As for mixing, look at “SOS from Earth” 2:20. That was blatantly taken from the trailer. As for “You can’t just shoot a hole into mars” it’s just BFG Division. Who’s going to re-buy a track they already have? Many mistakes have been made from both sides but until we get to the truth ( not a single parties truth, “my truth” bullshit ), we won’t know for sure but given ID’s “No metal” from 2016 & the shit rap from the TV trailer, I’m still against ID & Bethesda on this one
Mick was expected to be a "Team Player". Not claiming all the tracks as his which was damaging to ID's reputation. Never outshine the boss, rule of power #1.
@@Marinealver he's a contractor, his obligation to Id ends at the contract itself, and companies generally give no fucks about contractors (as seen here)
I dunno Mick's contractual agreements, but the one thing that stands out to me here is accusing him of not publicly saying enough.
Most video game contracts have heavy NDA, unless Mick got a unicorn contract, he probably can't comment much. Besides that, he was hired as a musician, and publicly clarified what he did and didn't do - he was NOT hired as PR.
This all sounds good and it definitely sounds like Mick fucked up a few things on his end, but where people accuse Mick of throwing Chad under the bus, Id is actually throwing Mick under the bus with this open letter.
9:30 rather Mick and his team have been working on this ambitious out of scope project "30 tracks and a run-time over two hours - including all music from the game, arranged in soundtrack format and as he felt it would best represent the score in the best possible way:" since January. And then an extreme case of perfectionism happened. Typical.
I bet the pandemic messed up the workflow too.
@@kjj26k you dont make music huh
This pandemic is perfect for home studio thats why it makes no sense every youtube creator hasnt overloaded our feeds its showing who has the drive and determination in times like these the prolific rise
@@kjj26k No, definitely the opposite. Mick did a livestream where he explained what needed to be done for the soundtrack after an event got canceled and outright said his calendar got nuked. You'd think that would make it easier to focus, but...
The MetaGamer Even if by some roundabout logic an entirely freed schedule for the last odd month and a half of his work messed with his workflow, he was still hired to get it done on time. The fact that he delivered mostly ambient tracks and only managed to produce a few proper tracks is entirely his fault. If you have 3 months turn into 4 and a half and STILL can’t deliver, with nothing preventing you from completing it, then he has no excuse.
@@jgvtc559 You 90% of Americans still have jobs you idiot and that's including youtubers. Some of us are working more now because all of the lazy fucks like you spending their stimulus checks.
They didn't fire him, he quit.
With the information we have so far, Mick was an idiot for publicly trying to downplay the tracks that weren't mixed by him when he was the reason for it happening.
Maybe they'll get nin or Trent Reznor again
At the end of they day it doesn't matter which individual is more responsible. It was advertised as a lossless OST and that is not what it is. That is Bethesdas responsiblity towards customers who bought this because ultimately this is what they decided to ship.
Mick also agreed to a deadline and didn't fulfill it. As per the open letter, Mick did not provide the raw tracks (probably in the contract) so there is only so much Id could do. Where they supposed to pay him more as a reward for not hitting the deadline?
@@MyChannel-l4w Look there might be plenty of blame to go around. And if we take everything in this letter for granted then yes, Mick screwed them, royally.
What I'm saying is that this is irrelevant from a customer standpoint. That is between Mick and Id/Bethesda. When the release for the soundtrack came due and Id/Bethesda had a product they knew was inferior to what they had promised they chose to release it anyway and that is on them. Instead of saying, hey we couldn't get this soundtrack together and offer refunds (partial or otherwise) they just released it as is hoping no one would notice.
@@gamergeek494 Well yes from a consumer standpoint you are right.
I think I speak for almost all Laymen fans when saying that we definitely don't mind the longer episodes, especially since it's important to cover stories like this in their entirety.
Also I can't wait for the next weekly dump 😭
This certainly paints id in a better light, and Mick in a worse light. However, for me, the bottom line is still that they should have never compromised on the quality of soundtrack. The fact that id considered allowing Chad to use a substandard recording of the games music for mixing is incomprehensible and damning. Weather or not Mick was the one to mix the rest of the tracks id made an unforgivable mistake allowing the substandard audio to be used for the OST. It's too bad they didn't hold the soundtrack to the same high standard they held the game.
It saddens me to hear about this relationship falling apart.
let's blame it all on bethesda just to be safe
Always. Bethesda is one twisted company
R ZENIMAX is one twisted company. Literally everything bad "Bethesda" have done recently is because of Robert Altman, the CEO of ZeniMax. Blaming Bethesda is like blaming DICE for EA's greed.
@@Aewon84 Uh, no? Modern day DICE are pretty fucked up themselves. What's so hard about acknowledging that the company is not the same as it was 10-15 years before, because a lot of old staff in the upper management are no longer there?
I'll take those odds. Regardless of the facts we have heard from one side :D
@@icipher6730 well Sweden is owned by snowflakes now so of course Dice sucks
So the lesson here is don't make vague posts online thinking no one will notice. Can't trust people on the internet to be reasonable.
But also...deadlines. But then again if he didn't post anything, no one would have cared, just got pissed off at the delay.
Noooo... Don't full Yong it the same day Yong full Yongs it. It's too much goddamn text. ITS TOO MUCH
The truth right here lol
I take it back. I commented too early in the video. That was tastefully Yong'd.
I still stand by my original statement. That just didn't happen here.
You fucking brainlettes are the epitome of millennials. You're the reason the media gets away with so much fake news because you can't sit down for 10 minutes and read a fucking article past it's title.
@@LordZoth6292 Y'know not every offhand youtube comment is a window to someones soul. You don't know how old I am or what I do lol and yet ....Idk who you're mad at or why but don't take it out on random people.
wow, Mick really burned that bridge
Eh. There are other people that can write combat metal. And that would be able to hit contractual deadlines.
Wouldn't it be cool if they hired actual metal bands to compose guest tracks for the next game, for example?
My fingers are crossed for Andrew Hulshult, personally
2024 DOOM: Black - all Blackened Doom soundtrack
Sounds like a recipe for high costs and long production times, unfortunately. Your average metal composer won't have a clue about dynamic soundtrack design, they'd require a lot of time and advise.
I'm an audio engineer. If the songs are created and recorded, you should be able to mix 12 songs in 3 months with no issues.
So it sounds like Mick was able to deliver the music in time for the game, which is a big plus. It also sounds like the previous OST was very highly regarded. I wonder if Mick was under a huge amount of pressure to create something as good as or better than the first OST. And this is a huge problem for perfectionist and artist. And I'm familiar with situations where the more behind you are, the worse it is to report the situation to your co-workers. The crux here is that while it gets harder and harder to communicate, it is more and more important to keep communicating and work on how to handle the delay. This reads like an account of escalation of pressure and communication difficulties.
Didn’t he also fail to deliver on the collectors edition of Doom eternal?
@@silent_stalker3687 Turns out because they didn't tell him about the CE OST until he saw his name on it at E3. Like:
id: "Pre-order now and get an exclusive CE OST from Mick Gordon!"
MG: "No one told me about this! Where's my contract?!"
id: "We did now."
don't you people feel at least a little shame now? I never believed any of this with a grain of salt until mick had his own 2 cents. 2 years later after exhausting all other avenues to amicably resolve this privately, he's kept the receipts :^)
Yong Yea (A Man of Culture): Bethesda/Id & Doom Composer *Break Up* After Soundtrack Controversy, Dev Responds In Open Letter
Laymen Gaming (Trash Boys): Id Software Publicly *Dumps* Mick Gordon After Doom Eternal OST Dramas :P
As an artist, we're our own worst critics. I work in tv animation and deadlines can be a kick in the ass because sometimes we have to compromise what we turn in because the clock runs out and it can haunt us for a while knowing we could've done better with just a bit more time.
What do you think of the copyright strike against youtubers from Naughty Dog/Sony?
yesterdays video was on this I think
ND/Sony are cucks
"I wish that guy would invite me into his car." - Ralph 2020
They started talks January. They signed the deal in end of February with the deadline in April. Read the post carefully.
Its also not Just mixed. He had to create 1w songs from hours of samples and parts made from the in game music.
Also Mick never spoke about money. They now introduced this topic in the conversations. Also If the contract was signed in 24 of February for the 19 of april deadline, ID did no extension of the compensation, just kept their contract.
No. They started talks in January, with a general agreement of a deadline in early March. On February 24th Mick asked for 4 additional weeks but Id accommodated him with 6 weeks, with a new deadline of mid-April.
Don't do that again.
Really hope you guys bring back the quality to these videos one of these days man
Sneaky skyrim sound cue... Youngsters won't get it...
Oh wait. I just heard bethesda is releasing Skyrim on PS6
Bro get Trent Leznor for the future of DOOM
It would be the move of the ages!!! I'm not sure the world is ready for such epicness!
Drugs, alcohol or relationship issues. He's acting like this now, but didn't before. What changed? Why the erratic behavior?
Fame ... It's a hell of a drug.
MaxCherry Drugs... It’s a hell of a... drug?
I watched a long interview with him talking about his work flow etc...
Looks to me like a case of a person asking more of themselves then they can deliver and ultimately burning out.
I'm sure you know plenty of hyperproductive people that burn the things that make life worth living in pursuit of success. Like relationships, family, personal health, time off...etc...
When I saw him talk at E3 he seemed pretty on edge or strained. I bet he's the kind of person who doesn't know how to take his foot off the gas and when he is confronted with the fact that he cannot deliver what he's asked of himself he doesn't quite know how to behave graciously with his own limitations.
Maybe he ran out of drugs due to lock down
The moment I heard the words "perfectionist", I knew this wouldn't end favorably for either party.
Within the first seconds of this Vid, Sam gives the "OK" sign.
White 'ist confirmed!!!😂😂😂
rofl, are dumbshit internet idiots finally over that?
@@BlazingOwnager clearly not, dumb fucks
Huh?
@@caderlocke8869 There's idiots who think the peace sign, the OK sign and bowl hair cuts are the same as swastikas, legitimately. And the freaking ACLU hate sign database agrees with them. It's lunacy.
This whole thing reminded me that we shouldn't jump to conclusions when we only know one side. The answer is in the middle most of the times
Now we have the other side thanks to Mick going public.
Mick Gordon: Sends a PM, makes a claim.
Id: *We're gonna ruin this man's whole career*
What claim did Mick make?
@@soc1163I mean, I suppose it was an indirect claim - he kind of omitted that it was his decision to only do 12 songs. He was making it out to look like Id were the bad guys.
@@BuletPrufe I don't see how anything he said implied id were the bad guys. All he said was that he didn't mix some tracks and that he probably wouldn't work with them again. The last one especially could literally just be him wanting to move on to do other things.
@@soc1163 I mean he left things pretty ominous - "doubt we'll work together again," "that's not my work/mastering" like, with this stuff he had to know that rumors would circulate. Especially with the speculation that started happening, and him not speaking out. Sure, maybe he didn't make claims other than "we won't work together again" but he created a controversy and rode the wave that it gave him, seemingly very purposefully. He had to know that he was implying Id had stiffed him in some way.
And even then, saying you doubt you'll work with someone again is. a claim, especially when they're not aware of it.
I agree with buletprufe
To me it sounded passive aggressive and kinda like he was throwing shade.
But like that could just be cause tone is hard to convey over text which is why he shouldn't have just made one comment and then vanished.
This sounds just like a producer my band worked with. Nothing but delays and excuses after we paid up front. Took forever to get our final mastered album back, and he still fucked up the placement of vocal tracks on a song and missing lead guitar tracks on another song. This shit happens alot in the metal scene. Hope this isnt the same shit.
I personally feel at the end of the day, this is something where time fixes everything
this should not have started in January, this should have started in in November to give both Mick and Chad the time to work on the whole collection, I don't doubt in Chad's ability especially with the bad hand he was dealt but at the end of the day my preference is in Mick's style, after hearing this story the most dickish thing Mick did was not Deliver on the contracted 12 tracks he promised, everything else is the fans fault for going overboard in how they demonize ID and hate on Chad because someone called Mick out on music he didn't mix and responded to let them know he didn't do the music in question they had a problem with
Agreed. Waiting until January was far too late in order to create a quality result.
"What a fuckin' badass, I wish he'd invite me to his car." Said no one ever.
Makes sense why there’s only 1 memorable song of the entire game
You mean bfg division?
Well this is a plot twist. I feel bad for the audio mixer at iD. Seems like he was just trying to help and got kicked the worst.
I just hope that ID dont pull a 343i and change the style of the music in the next doom.
Depends how they do it. I'd actually prefer them to have someone talented bringing new blood to the show instead just 'trying to do the Mick'.
@@PenguinDT big true, they should absolutely not try to impersonate him, I think they're smart enough to not even try
I hope they hire Devin Townsend for the next Doom - I can't think of a better fit
Hope ID Software can call upon an old friend, Trent Reznor, for the DLC
Although this didn't come to pass, two things: Trent is more about ambient tracks than heavy metal. Also, Bethesda screwed Trent with the Quake soundtrack and never let him release it. Trent finally made an LP vinyl of Quake and had to remove a bunch of pictures and content that mentioned the game because Bethesda decided to be weird about it. I will note that Bethesda is not id, management at id seem like a bunch of really standup guys.
@@kael13 Thanks...wasnt aware of the whole Quake drama.