Why hate on a subclass you can fix? Also, *this* isn't announced yet, but you can take a sneak peek if you want to keep up to date with what I'm doing: www.kickstarter.com/projects/dndshorts/ryokos-guide-to-the-yokai-realms-a-5e-tome?ref=d53ufn
@@bagel_guy9495 Arcane archer: Level 3: you can learn and cast wizard spells (see Eldritch Knight for spell progression chart) Level 7: If you use your action to cast a spell that requires an attack roll or saving throw you can make a ranged weapon attack as part of the same action. If you do, use the ranged weapon attack target as the spell target with a range equal the weapons short range, and use the weapon attacks roll for either your to hit roll with the spell, or DC for the spell. Level 10: infused arrows: you can choose to add 1d6 force damage to all of your ranged weapon attacks, and such attacks count as magical if they weren't already. Level 15: Recovery: when you take a short rest, regain a 1st and 2nd level spell slot Level 18: Arcane tracking: When you miss with an attack you can expend a spell slot as a reaction to re-roll it.
@@garyco766 So you’re idea is to remove everything the arcane archer is and add it to the eldritch knight. A better alternative would be to scale down the power of arcane shots by a bit (grasping arrow is just an instant kill in most cases) and then you can really lean into the magical parts of the class (for example leaning into a hawk eye feeling by enhancing their movement and the number of arcane shots per day). So optimally the idea is to get rid of the ribbon features and make the arcane archer more like the battle master.
This is actually a great way to do a counterpart to the Champion subclass. This way the PDK only uses the basic fighter features, making them noob friendly, but in a supportive way compared to the Champion’s approach of making you more effective at fighter stuff itself.
I feel like it's the other way around, tbh. Passives are less new player friendly than active abilities in my experience: How many times have you had to remind a new rogue about Sneak Attack, or a new Barbarian of their damage resistances during rage? It's very easy to forget passive abilities, turning it into the game master's job to remember half their character for them. A new spellcaster has a handy list of all the things they can do on their spell list: They say they do a thing and then something happens, but unless you're reminding them they have a passive ability constantly then it might as well not exist.
@@kevingriffith6011 These aren't passive abilities, though. Second Wind requires a bonus action and action surge has a limited use. Sneak Attack and damage resistance are both things that are triggered by conditions, whereas fighter features require a player's conscious choice.
@@pocketmonster1088 I was referring to every feature that Champion Fighter has, not the fighter class itself. The "crit on 18-19, better running long jump, extra fighting style" things. OP was saying Champion is great for new fighters because it has no active abilities, when I think it's not great because these passives will inevitably become the DM's responsibility to remember.
@kevingriffith6011 2 months late but The OP didn't seem to mean that from what I'm reading. They meant the Purple Dragon Knight would be noob friendly in a support way and Champion would still have it's own niche of being the one you pick for more fighter-centered choices. In otherwords, saying PDK is easy and doesn't step on champion's toes.
I mean, if you had an army of them rather than a single adventurer in a party, the shared healing etc becomes extremely overpowered so it kinda makes sense that an order of purple dragon knights would be the most powerful
I was just thinking this,... I'm going thru the Elminster series, and 'bury deep'is in Cormyr... so there's these palace guards standing against beholder and death knights... that make a TON more sense now...
I mean, one extra action surge on the right person can be just enough. Basically allows any wizard to single out and kill most creature(s) with Wall of Force and Mordekainen’s Faithul Hound by lvl 9. Becomes even better with the lategame spell combos. You don’t need 2 casters to pull many of them off, just a PDK.
@@aetherwolf9288 I'm pretty sure there's this thing in the game where "turn" means who's going. "Round" is the whole thing. so "once per turn" means once on my turn, then once on bob's turn. once per rounds means I did it on my turn, so when bob gives me the option I can't.
A lot of bad subclasses could be saved by just adding ,,You can do that cool thing more often". Many subclasses have a very cool ability but players often forget about them because they are too afraid of using them up and needing them later
I actually did a rework for myself and my playgroup that my dm ok’d where there were minor arcane shots and major arcane shots. So there were options for each type of shot and you could use the shots more often. Found it really fun to play cuz the flavor is really cool and I love Arcane Archer!
@@blackbear36 I LOVE the flavour of the Arcane Archer. And my fix is usually just to increase the amount of shots you get to equal your Proficiency Bonus but that still seems a bit too little. I love your idea of Minor and Major shots, basically just like a spellcaster with lower level spells and higher level spells.
The big support concept I want to do someday is a high level Paladin with 3 levels of Artillerist Artificer. Multiple aura effects plus a bonus action 1d8+ int mod temp hp buff that is basically just another aura.
I was about to start a campaign as a purple dragon knight. He was a high charisma Shonen style group leader that beluves in the power of friendship. I ended up going battlemaster instead, taking a few maneuvers that helped my group, and throwing the leadership feat on top of that. He did a decent job at supporting while still being good elsewhere.
This is the exact build I had in mind for my (Banneret) PDK; a charisma weighted fighter is a sleeper pick. You rock the battlefield and the social scene. Mine is a “Bosun”; a human with a shipwright background. I took superior technique and martial adept at lv 1 for the rally, tactical assessment and riposte maneuvers. At lv4 the build is basically done with “inspiring leader” and it’s honestly really fun and challenging; not the most powerful but the utility and role play are great especially for a fighter, in addition to being able to take care of the party even a little. My favorite thing is that none of the buffs are magical so they can’t be countered.
Shout out to Ted from Nerd Immersion for remaking the subclass and doing exactly just that, in addition to a few new ribbons that make the subclass feel even more supportive!
Making your allies attack is YOUR ability, YOU get credit for the damage, not them. Not saying it isn't underpowered but besides maybe not feeling as "cool" or putting the spotlight on the fighter its a fine ability.
To be fair, order cleric does the same thing... but better. In fact, when it heals some one, that person can also make a single attack, which is both the 3rd and 10th level feature combined basically.
@@WitD2013 now, if only the cleric had extra attack, extra actions, heavy armor, and a con save proficiency😂 The cleric can do one thing better than one fighter subclass, but a fighter is still a fighter; maybe a hot take, but it’s honestly the one class besides monk that would be fun to play on the chassis alone.
@@Elohist2009 Order cleric innately gets heavy armor prof, and with haste (which is pretty sub optimal) it does have extra attack! But instead, spirit guardians is a MUCH better option at the same level, and will out damage a fighter by a pretty huge margin while also still providing crowd control, anbd allowing you to cast other spells. Oh, and it can do the "make an ally attack" more than once per day, so you know, way better. And yeah, it is a hot take because monk is AWFUL, while cleric is literally one of the strongest classes in the game (a peace cleric and twilight cleric by themselves are insane, but together they break encounters really badly.) Oh, and let's be real, getting a con prof isn't hard. Literally one feat will do it which is great, because casters aren't very hungry on feats unlike martials... and multiclassing exists, so cleric doesn't have to be your first level anyways. One of my favorite builds a clockwork soul sorc + 1 level dip in cleric for both heavy armor, order cleric utility, and con save prof. Otherwise Variant Human/CO gets you the ability to take a feat which can easily be resilient (Con), then war caster at level 4 and you're set. And finally, as insult to injury, you can still dip fighter as any caster and action surge to cast two leveled spells per turn. (and before you start saying "NUH UH!" the leveled spell restriction only applies to bonus action spells. You cannot cast a leveled bonus action spell and a leveled action spell in the same turn. You can however cast two leveled action spells and a leveled reaction spell in the same turn.) You really don't know literally anything about optimization, do you?
@@WitD2013 nah I’m not big on optimization and I don’t really mess with multi classing either. I know you can literally dip your way to a better fighter than “the fighter” but I’m more of a “classlocke” challenge player; it’s more fun for me to stretch the base classes/subclasses as far as possible, with the help of feats if necessary. That said I have seen some disgusting dips and yours honestly sounds pretty sick.
@@Elohist2009 I highly recommend it, you can kind of become the lynchpin of the team, providing great support, and making martials feel stronger, especially rogues because they get to shine by attacking while you provide buffs to everyone. (Aid is hands down one of my favorite second level spells)
I actually made a Purple Dragon Knight/Banneret Homebrew variant. It’s pretty much the same with some buffs to the main features, but a couple of big changes. The first was moving the Royal Envoy feature to 3rd level (it’s not too strong so I figured it didn’t deserve to take up the 7th level feature), and in place of Royal Envoy, I made a new feature for 7th level called “Mentor” which grants a Fighting Style to some of your allies. This, alongside the other feature buffs, is a simple way to make the subclass a lot better and leans more into being support-based.
Make the level 18 feature that you can give all three action surges to your allies who can each do a full action right away without having to spend a reaction
This class is a support class for the Purple Dragon Knights in Forgotten Realms (Cormyr actually) so that would be the reason why it may not be seen all that often at a table.
One of my parties has a DM controlled PDK as a companion. It actually works really well as an NPC, because of how it's abilities are shared. If a player ever wants to try the archetype, I'll definitely implement this buff
Back in 3.5 Purple Dragon Knights was one of my favourite Prestige Class. Not because of their abilities (I don’t remember what they were) but I just found them incredibly cool
The "new thing" you get to do is buff allies, it's designed as a support fighter. The idea of buffing allies more makes sense, but at that point just allow you to give the buffs outside of using their core features
Yeah there’s a good reason they didn’t give them that ability; it would make PDK the most busted fighter in the game. Can you imagine unloading NINE full attacks in one turn?! And it’s worse if you play with advantage. Plus you’d get all those attacks back on a short rest!😂
@@Elohist2009Action surge's text specifies that you can only use it once on your turn. It's good, but not nine attacks in a turn good, like you're suggesting.
@@yesyes3839 good call, I honestly forgot about that 17th level caveat; I still think it’s a bit cheesy to give PDK another surge before then, just to “buff” their shared features. I just don’t really see any narrative reason to give them more surges/2nd winds than any other fighter. Maybe some more skills or an ability that works like a free “commanding presence” maneuver would be pretty cool tho.
Purple Dragon Knight in a party with everyone with the Remarkable Recovery feat is a beautiful thing! Chef's kiss! PDK is a great subclass for players who enjoy support roles.
I also think a “bonus action help action with 30ft range” at 3rd would be nice, and also making it so action surge gives the other player an action and 1/2 their movement.
With this change, you'd also make PDK the BEST noob class in the game. What teaches players how to use their class features? Give them more uses! That way you're not punished for experimenting and wasting a once per short/long rest feature.
Sounds like a better fix would make the purple dragon knight abilities run on their own resource rather than spending your own, that way you can still use them for yourself while granting the effects to your allies
I’ve fell to the lowest level of advice “the RUclips comment section” but I still can’t figure out what race to use for my new Paladin build. Got any ideas? 😢😂
I use these subclass features as a kind of limit break for my party. Basically if the party is in serious trouble and a member or two are already down then the fighter in the group may inspire one or more of the others to grant them action surge or second wind. I do this with barbarians too where others in the party may range as they see their friends getting hurt and they snap.
Personally, Purple Dragon Fighters should be like Dragoon Knights from Final Fantasy. Or have dragon flavoured subclass features to lean into the name they have 😂
I've been flirting with a Dragoon rewrite of this class for a very long time. I have them a reverse Thunder Step to imitate the iconic Jump ability, but I never really finished it.
Or just make so both you and your ally gain the benefit, it would make an interesting commander subclass (although Inspiring Leader + Battle Master is gonna be better anyways)
So your Action Surge has the Commander's Strike maneuver baked into it? That sounds pretty cool, especially if you take the Martial Adept feat and take Commander's Strike as well. Use movement to get next to enemy, attack once, forego second attack and use BA to Commander's Strike the rogue's sneak attack, Action Surge to attack again, choose ranger for another extra attack.
When I hear people complaining about the Banneret (or PDK)'s abilities being support abilities for a martial class, I just find it hypocritical that so many people love the Swords Bard adding martial abilities to their support class. It's basically the same, but in reverse.
Second Wind would be so much better if they made it an unlimited bonus action that heals 1d4 + CONmod (a negative CON mod would count as zero). Then players could spec their fighters around being a high CON health tank. It would effectively be a self-targeting Healing Word.
I think someone needs to do a bit of tinkering on them.. like make them related to a purple Dragon, ie some of there powers, trates/buffs. Or make them specialised in fighting/killing Purple Dragons and anything similar.
For my players that pock this subclass. I also let them make persuasion and intimidation checks with their STR/DEX modifiers depending on their primary weapon, And at level 7, they gain proficiency in charisma saving throws
Not sure how to feel about the extra action surge. It's already strong enough and having another can be a game changer. I would say At Lv10 it allows an ally in 60ft of you to be able to take another normal action on their next turn. As for Lv3, heal all allies in a 30ft radius equal to the Second Wind (1d10+your fighter lv). Also feel like the subclass should get to pick an aura buff feature similar to Paladin's since this subclass feels like more of a support commander Fighter.
Poor PDK; just suffers too much from "the Battle Master also does that!" Syndrome. The Battle Master can do literally everything the PDK does. Maybe not as well, but you have way more uses of your abilities with Battle Maneuvers. Command an ally to strike, rally the team by regaining hitpoints, etc...
I think alot of people aren’t seeing the potential of PDK’s as dmpc’s/allies to the party. While playing one feels like unclassed fighter that means less for dm to track and makes your allies value them since they give buffs/help them.
With this buff it becomes really powerful... And with really powerful I mean really, really powerful... At level 3 you basically have a healing pool already disgusting, with 3d10+36 complessive healing to your party on a short rest, and each time you level up this number becomes even crazier, increasing for about 12 healing point per level. This is better healing potential than a cleric that is consuming all his spells on healing spells in a day with 1 or 2 short rests considered, and this is even a complete fighter and we have considered only the third level feature... 😅
But isn’t teamwork good? Healing your party is good, giving your teammates extra attack is good, y’all just don’t like supporting your team over supporting yourself
I wrote a fix myself for it (though I renamed it Bannerette, to be setting agnostic). Buffed Rallying Cry by letting you add your charisma mod to the healing, and removing the limit on friendly creatures you can effect, though it keeps the same range. Added feature: Battle Leader. If you use the help action to help an ally with attacks, you can help as many allies as you have attacks, as long as you can get within 5 feet of them during your turn. (so helping isn't super sub-optimal from just attacking) Added 7th level feature: Shout of Defiance. As a reaction to you and/or an ally within 30 feet making a saving throw against being frightened, you can use your reaction to utter a shout to inspire bravery, giving all allies within 30 feet advantage on their saving throw against being frightened.
It doesn't really seem like the right fix to me. It's mechanically good, but nothing there really delivers on the "Purple Dragon Knight" name. Shouldn't they do something...draconic? If we're leaning into making it a support class, then I'd just improve the options you have for supporting not give extra action surges or second winds. There's nothing wrong with your power being in the way you can buff allies. It's not a bad subclass just because you can't do much on your own. Though this subclass is pretty weak.
I did not grow up with D&D sadly. No friends that play, or maybe just no friends at all :(. But I did this in every rpg I played. I'd pick the class everyone said was trash and find a way to make it better/viable. . Needless to say, I have been really enjoying all these "fixing the worst x" series. And this channel as a whole.
Dude... you can let your fucking cleric drop two epic heals, or let your rogue double sneak attack, or your wizard drop two fireballs, and then run into combat and still crump bitches with your great weapon mastery. It's not about your power, it's about your party. Real leadership class, imo
So they're competent fighters and can support? Unless you're a selfish prick that sounds pretty good IMO. They also sound like they would make a great friendly NPC or follower, nothing too complex to saddle the GM with but helps the team out without stealing the spotlight.
I actually took a shot at fixing this already and: Royal Envoy When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you gain proficiency in in Persuasion skill (if you already have this choose proficiency in any skill) and one of the following skills of your choice: Animal Handling, History, Insight, Performance, Intimidation. Any ability check that uses Persuasion or second proficiency learned doubles your proficiency bonus. You also learn one language of your choice. Rallying Cry When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you learn how to inspire your allies to fight on past their injuries. As a bonus action or when you use your Second Wind feature, you can choose up to three creatures within 60 feet of you that are allied with you. Each one regains hit points equal to 1d10 + your fighter level, and advantage on their next attack roll within the next minute, provided that the creature can see or hear you. Any healing points left after the ally is at full health is converted into temporary hit points. You can use this feature a number of times equal to your maximum uses of Second Wind + 1. Motivating Presence Starting at 7th level, you and any allies that start their turn within 10ft of you, can roll an extra damage die when the land a critical hit until the end of their turn. Inspiring Surge Starting at 10th level, as a bonus action or when you use your Action Surge feature, you gain advantage on the next action you take and you can choose one creature within 60 feet of you that is allied with you. That creature can make one action with its reaction, when it does so it can move up to half of its movement speed, provided that it can see or hear you. You can use this an amount of times equal to your maximum uses of Action Surge but it is not tied to this ability. Starting at 18th level, you can choose two allies within 120 feet of you, rather than one. Bulwark Beginning at 15th level, when an ally within 60ft of you failes a saving throw you can use a reaction to force that creature to succeed profided you aren’t incapacitated and it can see or hear you. You can use this feature an amount of times equal to your max uses of Indomitable but they are not tied together.
Exactly the fix I gave them, except I also gave them "Plant the Standard" as a capstone - when they're reduced to 0hp, they can put down a banner that damages/knocks prone enemies and buffs allies that see it (including giving them extra speed, so long as they use it to move towards you).
You are a "Creature within 60 feet of you that (is) allied with you." You can choose yourself as one of the healed targets, and that you can make yourself make an extra attack
I try to do something similar to the Battlemaster subclass. Since a lot of other classes upgraded damage or number of die depending on the class, think cantrips like ray of frost, monk martial arts, or Paladins some subclasses level 7 and the upgrad at level 18. I say at level 10 battlemaster still goes from d8 to d10, and at 18 d10 to d12, but an additional feature is that once per turn when making an attack roll and if a 20 is rolled on a d20, regain one superiority dice. Again, just a once per turn or round thing. Otherwise, that level 18 feature is useless compared to all the other fighter's subclass.
PDK With Archery on a Hobgoblin allows for some pretty good Sharpshooter use, and 3 of them as brothers-in-arms from different backgrounds would make for diverse skills and good story with a very strong group with lots of sustain due to getting most of what they need on a short rest.
I'm sorry action surge giving *OTHERS* more actions on top of yours is a free extra action, action economy go brrt (Also need to figure out how to convince a DM to let me have purple dragon fighter undead minions)
Played one up to level 5, DM could tell I wasn't having fun with it. After an interesting story bit two sessions later, and I became a Runner Knight using the UA version that'd just recently been released.
Sounds to me like a good subclass for a temporary NPC party member. Maybe for like a starting low level quest to give the players an extra body for attacks and can lend a hand without anything too flashy.
I wrapped a campaign that went from 3-20, and we had a PDK and two rogues in the party. At the level where you get two additional allies who can attack it got pretty silly and counting the sneak attack damage, we had 305 damage in one turn for our Purple Dragon Knight
My issue comes more with how the shared buff is so weak. When you use Second Wind you only heal one ally by your level, and when you action surge only one ally can make an attack as a reaction. The Second Wind Should become an AOE and the Action Surge ability should also do something like give everyone who is currently under a negative effect a chance to redo the save,
Why hate on a subclass you can fix?
Also, *this* isn't announced yet, but you can take a sneak peek if you want to keep up to date with what I'm doing: www.kickstarter.com/projects/dndshorts/ryokos-guide-to-the-yokai-realms-a-5e-tome?ref=d53ufn
This book looks amazing
No. It's still bad. Why are you so afraid to give something unique to the class. For example hen you action surge an ally also action surge.
What about arcane archer
@@bagel_guy9495 Arcane archer:
Level 3: you can learn and cast wizard spells (see Eldritch Knight for spell progression chart)
Level 7: If you use your action to cast a spell that requires an attack roll or saving throw you can make a ranged weapon attack as part of the same action. If you do, use the ranged weapon attack target as the spell target with a range equal the weapons short range, and use the weapon attacks roll for either your to hit roll with the spell, or DC for the spell.
Level 10: infused arrows: you can choose to add 1d6 force damage to all of your ranged weapon attacks, and such attacks count as magical if they weren't already.
Level 15: Recovery: when you take a short rest, regain a 1st and 2nd level spell slot
Level 18: Arcane tracking: When you miss with an attack you can expend a spell slot as a reaction to re-roll it.
@@garyco766 So you’re idea is to remove everything the arcane archer is and add it to the eldritch knight.
A better alternative would be to scale down the power of arcane shots by a bit (grasping arrow is just an instant kill in most cases) and then you can really lean into the magical parts of the class (for example leaning into a hawk eye feeling by enhancing their movement and the number of arcane shots per day).
So optimally the idea is to get rid of the ribbon features and make the arcane archer more like the battle master.
This is actually a great way to do a counterpart to the Champion subclass. This way the PDK only uses the basic fighter features, making them noob friendly, but in a supportive way compared to the Champion’s approach of making you more effective at fighter stuff itself.
Gestalt subclass with champion for the moat fightery fighter to ever fighter...
I feel like it's the other way around, tbh. Passives are less new player friendly than active abilities in my experience: How many times have you had to remind a new rogue about Sneak Attack, or a new Barbarian of their damage resistances during rage? It's very easy to forget passive abilities, turning it into the game master's job to remember half their character for them.
A new spellcaster has a handy list of all the things they can do on their spell list: They say they do a thing and then something happens, but unless you're reminding them they have a passive ability constantly then it might as well not exist.
@@kevingriffith6011 These aren't passive abilities, though. Second Wind requires a bonus action and action surge has a limited use. Sneak Attack and damage resistance are both things that are triggered by conditions, whereas fighter features require a player's conscious choice.
@@pocketmonster1088 I was referring to every feature that Champion Fighter has, not the fighter class itself. The "crit on 18-19, better running long jump, extra fighting style" things. OP was saying Champion is great for new fighters because it has no active abilities, when I think it's not great because these passives will inevitably become the DM's responsibility to remember.
@kevingriffith6011 2 months late but
The OP didn't seem to mean that from what I'm reading. They meant the Purple Dragon Knight would be noob friendly in a support way and Champion would still have it's own niche of being the one you pick for more fighter-centered choices. In otherwords, saying PDK is easy and doesn't step on champion's toes.
What's even sadder is that purple dragon knights are literally the most powerful warrior order in the forgotten realms...
You are correct my friend it is indeed sad.
I mean, if you had an army of them rather than a single adventurer in a party, the shared healing etc becomes extremely overpowered so it kinda makes sense that an order of purple dragon knights would be the most powerful
I was just thinking this,... I'm going thru the Elminster series, and 'bury deep'is in Cormyr... so there's these palace guards standing against beholder and death knights... that make a TON more sense now...
If that's the case, should it really be a subclass then? It sounds like more of a background feature anyway.
I mean, imagine fighting an entire troop of these. One surges, they ALL SURGE.
Purple Dragon Knights almost always fight in groups with each other. If you have 2 or more in a party, they can all buff each other.
I mean, one extra action surge on the right person can be just enough.
Basically allows any wizard to single out and kill most creature(s) with Wall of Force and Mordekainen’s Faithul Hound by lvl 9.
Becomes even better with the lategame spell combos. You don’t need 2 casters to pull many of them off, just a PDK.
@azpont7275 Inspiring Surge only allows weapon attacks right?
@@azpont7275 you can’t cast two lvled spells per turn.
@@AP-qt4mtYou could technically use it on a cantrip as well.
@@aetherwolf9288 I'm pretty sure there's this thing in the game where "turn" means who's going. "Round" is the whole thing. so "once per turn" means once on my turn, then once on bob's turn. once per rounds means I did it on my turn, so when bob gives me the option I can't.
A lot of bad subclasses could be saved by just adding ,,You can do that cool thing more often". Many subclasses have a very cool ability but players often forget about them because they are too afraid of using them up and needing them later
Looking at Arcane Archer.
@@raz802 OMG, YES, the trick arrows are super cool. But you only get TWO until level 18!!!
@@elmsigreenExactly.
I actually did a rework for myself and my playgroup that my dm ok’d where there were minor arcane shots and major arcane shots. So there were options for each type of shot and you could use the shots more often. Found it really fun to play cuz the flavor is really cool and I love Arcane Archer!
@@blackbear36 I LOVE the flavour of the Arcane Archer. And my fix is usually just to increase the amount of shots you get to equal your Proficiency Bonus but that still seems a bit too little.
I love your idea of Minor and Major shots, basically just like a spellcaster with lower level spells and higher level spells.
I was saved by a purple dragon knight. I won't let anyone speak ill of them.
It's a cool mechanical concept in fact
He is basically the "fighter fighter" like the Ranger Hunter is the "ranger ranger" and others.
Personally I rly don't like that concept like every fighter should be the most fightery you can be. Just expressed in different ways.
@@geekpeak5052 it's a matter of taste but I can understand your disapprove.
thief is the rogue rogue
berserker is the barbarian barbarian
devotion is the paladin paladin
Life is the cleric cleric, moon is the druid druid, and open hand is the most monk monk to ever monk.
fiend is warlock warlock
eloquence is bard bard
wild magic is sorc sorc
I actually want to spec into both this and bard and be the ultimate passive buffing class
Save a couple levels for Paladin, then.
@@WolfHreda 👀
The big support concept I want to do someday is a high level Paladin with 3 levels of Artillerist Artificer. Multiple aura effects plus a bonus action 1d8+ int mod temp hp buff that is basically just another aura.
I was about to start a campaign as a purple dragon knight. He was a high charisma Shonen style group leader that beluves in the power of friendship.
I ended up going battlemaster instead, taking a few maneuvers that helped my group, and throwing the leadership feat on top of that. He did a decent job at supporting while still being good elsewhere.
This is the exact build I had in mind for my (Banneret) PDK; a charisma weighted fighter is a sleeper pick. You rock the battlefield and the social scene. Mine is a “Bosun”; a human with a shipwright background. I took superior technique and martial adept at lv 1 for the rally, tactical assessment and riposte maneuvers. At lv4 the build is basically done with “inspiring leader” and it’s honestly really fun and challenging; not the most powerful but the utility and role play are great especially for a fighter, in addition to being able to take care of the party even a little. My favorite thing is that none of the buffs are magical so they can’t be countered.
This made me want to play official Purple Dragon Knight. I love helping my allies.
Support martials all day
The only issue is that you can only do 2 things once per short rest
My thought was archery fighting style and be a ranged support fighter.
Shout out to Ted from Nerd Immersion for remaking the subclass and doing exactly just that, in addition to a few new ribbons that make the subclass feel even more supportive!
Came here to say this
Can I get a link?
Making your allies attack is YOUR ability, YOU get credit for the damage, not them. Not saying it isn't underpowered but besides maybe not feeling as "cool" or putting the spotlight on the fighter its a fine ability.
To be fair, order cleric does the same thing... but better. In fact, when it heals some one, that person can also make a single attack, which is both the 3rd and 10th level feature combined basically.
@@WitD2013 now, if only the cleric had extra attack, extra actions, heavy armor, and a con save proficiency😂
The cleric can do one thing better than one fighter subclass, but a fighter is still a fighter; maybe a hot take, but it’s honestly the one class besides monk that would be fun to play on the chassis alone.
@@Elohist2009 Order cleric innately gets heavy armor prof, and with haste (which is pretty sub optimal) it does have extra attack! But instead, spirit guardians is a MUCH better option at the same level, and will out damage a fighter by a pretty huge margin while also still providing crowd control, anbd allowing you to cast other spells. Oh, and it can do the "make an ally attack" more than once per day, so you know, way better.
And yeah, it is a hot take because monk is AWFUL, while cleric is literally one of the strongest classes in the game (a peace cleric and twilight cleric by themselves are insane, but together they break encounters really badly.)
Oh, and let's be real, getting a con prof isn't hard. Literally one feat will do it which is great, because casters aren't very hungry on feats unlike martials... and multiclassing exists, so cleric doesn't have to be your first level anyways. One of my favorite builds a clockwork soul sorc + 1 level dip in cleric for both heavy armor, order cleric utility, and con save prof. Otherwise Variant Human/CO gets you the ability to take a feat which can easily be resilient (Con), then war caster at level 4 and you're set.
And finally, as insult to injury, you can still dip fighter as any caster and action surge to cast two leveled spells per turn. (and before you start saying "NUH UH!" the leveled spell restriction only applies to bonus action spells. You cannot cast a leveled bonus action spell and a leveled action spell in the same turn. You can however cast two leveled action spells and a leveled reaction spell in the same turn.)
You really don't know literally anything about optimization, do you?
@@WitD2013 nah I’m not big on optimization and I don’t really mess with multi classing either. I know you can literally dip your way to a better fighter than “the fighter” but I’m more of a “classlocke” challenge player; it’s more fun for me to stretch the base classes/subclasses as far as possible, with the help of feats if necessary. That said I have seen some disgusting dips and yours honestly sounds pretty sick.
@@Elohist2009 I highly recommend it, you can kind of become the lynchpin of the team, providing great support, and making martials feel stronger, especially rogues because they get to shine by attacking while you provide buffs to everyone. (Aid is hands down one of my favorite second level spells)
I actually made a Purple Dragon Knight/Banneret Homebrew variant. It’s pretty much the same with some buffs to the main features, but a couple of big changes. The first was moving the Royal Envoy feature to 3rd level (it’s not too strong so I figured it didn’t deserve to take up the 7th level feature), and in place of Royal Envoy, I made a new feature for 7th level called “Mentor” which grants a Fighting Style to some of your allies. This, alongside the other feature buffs, is a simple way to make the subclass a lot better and leans more into being support-based.
I like this change as I feel like PDK needs something new alongside being able to do their thing more often. Very sterile subclass option imo.
Make the level 18 feature that you can give all three action surges to your allies who can each do a full action right away without having to spend a reaction
This class is a support class for the Purple Dragon Knights in Forgotten Realms (Cormyr actually) so that would be the reason why it may not be seen all that often at a table.
Ah, so this will be my Spyro the Dragon build I will use
I seem to remember 3.# versions that created a cavalier that basically became mounted reusable guided missiles
One of my parties has a DM controlled PDK as a companion. It actually works really well as an NPC, because of how it's abilities are shared. If a player ever wants to try the archetype, I'll definitely implement this buff
Back in 3.5 Purple Dragon Knights was one of my favourite Prestige Class. Not because of their abilities (I don’t remember what they were) but I just found them incredibly cool
The "new thing" you get to do is buff allies, it's designed as a support fighter. The idea of buffing allies more makes sense, but at that point just allow you to give the buffs outside of using their core features
WH40k Rogue Trader Officer, "And I took that personal."
These guy definitely made for cool npcs in my first campaign
This is actually a pretty decent fix I like it
2 action surges coming in right before you get 3 attacks in a turn? Yes PLEASE
Yeah there’s a good reason they didn’t give them that ability; it would make PDK the most busted fighter in the game. Can you imagine unloading NINE full attacks in one turn?! And it’s worse if you play with advantage. Plus you’d get all those attacks back on a short rest!😂
@@Elohist2009Action surge's text specifies that you can only use it once on your turn. It's good, but not nine attacks in a turn good, like you're suggesting.
@@yesyes3839 good call, I honestly forgot about that 17th level caveat; I still think it’s a bit cheesy to give PDK another surge before then, just to “buff” their shared features. I just don’t really see any narrative reason to give them more surges/2nd winds than any other fighter. Maybe some more skills or an ability that works like a free “commanding presence” maneuver would be pretty cool tho.
Purple Dragon Knight in a party with everyone with the Remarkable Recovery feat is a beautiful thing! Chef's kiss!
PDK is a great subclass for players who enjoy support roles.
This seems like a fantastic NPC class to help the party without just being a level 20 fighter who spends the entire fight dueling a Taraskque
*Mysteriously looks at the wizard*
I also think a “bonus action help action with 30ft range” at 3rd would be nice, and also making it so action surge gives the other player an action and 1/2 their movement.
I personally think their setting agnostic name, Banneret, is way cooler than "Purple Dragon Knight".
With this change, you'd also make PDK the BEST noob class in the game. What teaches players how to use their class features? Give them more uses! That way you're not punished for experimenting and wasting a once per short/long rest feature.
I scrolled through a subclass breakdown for fighters and didn’t even know it existed because it was in a book no one had and just wasn’t good
Sounds like a better fix would make the purple dragon knight abilities run on their own resource rather than spending your own, that way you can still use them for yourself while granting the effects to your allies
Yes, so much yes.
These changes will make PDK one of the most supportive fighters and super beginner friendlyat the same time.
I wasn't the only one who thought Champion, when he I read the title, was I?
This is much needed.
I wanna do a one shot where it’s a party of purple dragon knight fighters
I had never heard of it. Apparently it can be found on page 128 of the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide.
And at level 17, once per long rest you can polymorph into a purple dragon for one minute.
I’ve fell to the lowest level of advice “the RUclips comment section” but I still can’t figure out what race to use for my new Paladin build. Got any ideas? 😢😂
I honestly think this subclass was fully intended to be multi classclassed
If the party doesnt have a healer id give them second wind prof bonus times per long rest
I use these subclass features as a kind of limit break for my party. Basically if the party is in serious trouble and a member or two are already down then the fighter in the group may inspire one or more of the others to grant them action surge or second wind. I do this with barbarians too where others in the party may range as they see their friends getting hurt and they snap.
The name was lost too, they changed it to Banneret and released it for the forgotten realms setting
Actually makes it worth it and awesome! It was my first character.
Helping your allies is your feature.
Purple dragon knight fighter is the subclass i used to make captian america
Purple dragon Knight is by far the worst subclass in DnD what has a great history and it is a wonderful name.
Hey DM I want to play a bard.
DM: we have a bard at home.
Bard at home:
I tried playing one in DDO but yeah they sucked.
I think it would be great to combine the uses of Second Wind with the PB of the Fighter. So ist feels linke the newer Archetypes.
reminds me of the 3.5 class marshal. Its an aura effect lol
Personally, Purple Dragon Fighters should be like Dragoon Knights from Final Fantasy. Or have dragon flavoured subclass features to lean into the name they have 😂
I've been flirting with a Dragoon rewrite of this class for a very long time. I have them a reverse Thunder Step to imitate the iconic Jump ability, but I never really finished it.
Or just make so both you and your ally gain the benefit, it would make an interesting commander subclass (although Inspiring Leader + Battle Master is gonna be better anyways)
can confirm with purple dragon knight being the worst subclass, it feels so lacking it cool stuff that it gets really boring to play
ooooo, that's actually really good.
When I saw the title I thought you were going to go with Champion. I honestly forgot PDKs existed.
Me too, although I hadn't forgotten about them. 😂
The original abilities would be great to give to a warrior npc follower
lol these 2 simple fixes actually really makes sense
Under rated class.
A. Cool name
B. Cool sword
C. close range support/healer/DPS/Off-Tank
D. Purple💜
Go Go Purple Dragon Knight Fighter !
I wanted to make it a more support-y fighter. good with a healer's kit and able to res summon by yelling at them with encouraging words.
So your Action Surge has the Commander's Strike maneuver baked into it? That sounds pretty cool, especially if you take the Martial Adept feat and take Commander's Strike as well.
Use movement to get next to enemy, attack once, forego second attack and use BA to Commander's Strike the rogue's sneak attack, Action Surge to attack again, choose ranger for another extra attack.
Purple dragon knight is the attempt to convert the 4e warlord fighter to 5e
Shame how crap that was cuz warlord was awesome
Maybe increase the amount of d10’s for second wind, would make it a bit better
When I hear people complaining about the Banneret (or PDK)'s abilities being support abilities for a martial class, I just find it hypocritical that so many people love the Swords Bard adding martial abilities to their support class. It's basically the same, but in reverse.
Second Wind would be so much better if they made it an unlimited bonus action that heals 1d4 + CONmod (a negative CON mod would count as zero). Then players could spec their fighters around being a high CON health tank. It would effectively be a self-targeting Healing Word.
That's way too powerful of a subclass now.
I think someone needs to do a bit of tinkering on them.. like make them related to a purple Dragon, ie some of there powers, trates/buffs. Or make them specialised in fighting/killing Purple Dragons and anything similar.
PDK sounds like a PrC from 3.5e
It probably is and comsidieing I don't hear much about it is probably a 2/5 class lol
I LITERALLY FIXED THIS A FEW MONTHS AGO!
I didn’t do the same thing but yeah.
that is a fairly good buff
For my players that pock this subclass. I also let them make persuasion and intimidation checks with their STR/DEX modifiers depending on their primary weapon,
And at level 7, they gain proficiency in charisma saving throws
Not sure how to feel about the extra action surge. It's already strong enough and having another can be a game changer. I would say At Lv10 it allows an ally in 60ft of you to be able to take another normal action on their next turn. As for Lv3, heal all allies in a 30ft radius equal to the Second Wind (1d10+your fighter lv). Also feel like the subclass should get to pick an aura buff feature similar to Paladin's since this subclass feels like more of a support commander Fighter.
My purple dragon knight is an amethyst dragonborn eldritch knight. It's got purple. It's got dragon. It's got knight.
There’s no saving the purple dragon knight
Poor PDK; just suffers too much from "the Battle Master also does that!" Syndrome.
The Battle Master can do literally everything the PDK does. Maybe not as well, but you have way more uses of your abilities with Battle Maneuvers. Command an ally to strike, rally the team by regaining hitpoints, etc...
Honestly? This may be your best work. Simple, effective, boosts a subclass that was truly lacking... but doesn't feel like too much. Great job, man.
I think alot of people aren’t seeing the potential of PDK’s as dmpc’s/allies to the party. While playing one feels like unclassed fighter that means less for dm to track and makes your allies value them since they give buffs/help them.
With this buff it becomes really powerful... And with really powerful I mean really, really powerful...
At level 3 you basically have a healing pool already disgusting, with 3d10+36 complessive healing to your party on a short rest, and each time you level up this number becomes even crazier, increasing for about 12 healing point per level.
This is better healing potential than a cleric that is consuming all his spells on healing spells in a day with 1 or 2 short rests considered, and this is even a complete fighter and we have considered only the third level feature... 😅
But isn’t teamwork good? Healing your party is good, giving your teammates extra attack is good, y’all just don’t like supporting your team over supporting yourself
I wrote a fix myself for it (though I renamed it Bannerette, to be setting agnostic).
Buffed Rallying Cry by letting you add your charisma mod to the healing, and removing the limit on friendly creatures you can effect, though it keeps the same range.
Added feature: Battle Leader. If you use the help action to help an ally with attacks, you can help as many allies as you have attacks, as long as you can get within 5 feet of them during your turn. (so helping isn't super sub-optimal from just attacking)
Added 7th level feature: Shout of Defiance. As a reaction to you and/or an ally within 30 feet making a saving throw against being frightened, you can use your reaction to utter a shout to inspire bravery, giving all allies within 30 feet advantage on their saving throw against being frightened.
"I will not... LOSE!!!"
- Reid Herschel on casting Aurora Wall, headline both himself and his party
It doesn't really seem like the right fix to me. It's mechanically good, but nothing there really delivers on the "Purple Dragon Knight" name. Shouldn't they do something...draconic? If we're leaning into making it a support class, then I'd just improve the options you have for supporting not give extra action surges or second winds. There's nothing wrong with your power being in the way you can buff allies. It's not a bad subclass just because you can't do much on your own. Though this subclass is pretty weak.
I did not grow up with D&D sadly. No friends that play, or maybe just no friends at all :(. But I did this in every rpg I played. I'd pick the class everyone said was trash and find a way to make it better/viable.
.
Needless to say, I have been really enjoying all these "fixing the worst x" series. And this channel as a whole.
Dude... you can let your fucking cleric drop two epic heals, or let your rogue double sneak attack, or your wizard drop two fireballs, and then run into combat and still crump bitches with your great weapon mastery. It's not about your power, it's about your party. Real leadership class, imo
It is Purple Dragon Knight, so drop the fighter.
You wouldn't say Skaald Bard, would you? No, because a Skaald is a type of bard.
So they're competent fighters and can support? Unless you're a selfish prick that sounds pretty good IMO. They also sound like they would make a great friendly NPC or follower, nothing too complex to saddle the GM with but helps the team out without stealing the spotlight.
I actually took a shot at fixing this already and:
Royal Envoy
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you gain proficiency in in Persuasion skill (if you already have this choose proficiency in any skill) and one of the following skills of your choice: Animal Handling, History, Insight, Performance, Intimidation. Any ability check that uses Persuasion or second proficiency learned doubles your proficiency bonus. You also learn one language of your choice.
Rallying Cry
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you learn how to inspire your allies to fight on past their injuries.
As a bonus action or when you use your Second Wind feature, you can choose up to three creatures within 60 feet of you that are allied with you. Each one regains hit points equal to 1d10 + your fighter level, and advantage on their next attack roll within the next minute, provided that the creature can see or hear you. Any healing points left after the ally is at full health is converted into temporary hit points.
You can use this feature a number of times equal to your maximum uses of Second Wind + 1.
Motivating Presence
Starting at 7th level, you and any allies that start their turn within 10ft of you, can roll an extra damage die when the land a critical hit until the end of their turn.
Inspiring Surge
Starting at 10th level, as a bonus action or when you use your Action Surge feature, you gain advantage on the next action you take and you can choose one creature within 60 feet of you that is allied with you.
That creature can make one action with its reaction, when it does so it can move up to half of its movement speed, provided that it can see or hear you. You can use this an amount of times equal to your maximum uses of Action Surge but it is not tied to this ability. Starting at 18th level, you can choose two allies within 120 feet of you, rather than one.
Bulwark
Beginning at 15th level, when an ally within 60ft of you failes a saving throw you can use a reaction to force that creature to succeed profided you aren’t incapacitated and it can see or hear you. You can use this feature an amount of times equal to your max uses of Indomitable but they are not tied together.
Exactly the fix I gave them, except I also gave them "Plant the Standard" as a capstone - when they're reduced to 0hp, they can put down a banner that damages/knocks prone enemies and buffs allies that see it (including giving them extra speed, so long as they use it to move towards you).
You are a "Creature within 60 feet of you that (is) allied with you."
You can choose yourself as one of the healed targets, and that you can make yourself make an extra attack
Passive party heal. That's kind of nice.
I guess you could multi class it with something to make you better.. Maybe barbarian?
I try to do something similar to the Battlemaster subclass. Since a lot of other classes upgraded damage or number of die depending on the class, think cantrips like ray of frost, monk martial arts, or Paladins some subclasses level 7 and the upgrad at level 18. I say at level 10 battlemaster still goes from d8 to d10, and at 18 d10 to d12, but an additional feature is that once per turn when making an attack roll and if a 20 is rolled on a d20, regain one superiority dice. Again, just a once per turn or round thing. Otherwise, that level 18 feature is useless compared to all the other fighter's subclass.
PDK With Archery on a Hobgoblin allows for some pretty good Sharpshooter use, and 3 of them as brothers-in-arms from different backgrounds would make for diverse skills and good story with a very strong group with lots of sustain due to getting most of what they need on a short rest.
I'm sorry action surge giving *OTHERS* more actions on top of yours is a free extra action, action economy go brrt
(Also need to figure out how to convince a DM to let me have purple dragon fighter undead minions)
Played one up to level 5, DM could tell I wasn't having fun with it. After an interesting story bit two sessions later, and I became a Runner Knight using the UA version that'd just recently been released.
This just sounds like a half decent player will just destroy the whole game. Also I think the worst subclass is Champion, way too boring.
Sounds to me like a good subclass for a temporary NPC party member. Maybe for like a starting low level quest to give the players an extra body for attacks and can lend a hand without anything too flashy.
Cheerleader Fighter is one of the MANY remaining subclasses in SCAG that needs errata to fix/buff.
Too bad they'd rather you buy that.
I wrapped a campaign that went from 3-20, and we had a PDK and two rogues in the party. At the level where you get two additional allies who can attack it got pretty silly and counting the sneak attack damage, we had 305 damage in one turn for our Purple Dragon Knight
My issue comes more with how the shared buff is so weak. When you use Second Wind you only heal one ally by your level, and when you action surge only one ally can make an attack as a reaction. The Second Wind Should become an AOE and the Action Surge ability should also do something like give everyone who is currently under a negative effect a chance to redo the save,