I decided to learn and record the newly-discovered 'Waltz' attributed to Chopin. The media and some scholars are trumpeting this as a landmark discovery of an unknown work of Chopin, but I gather there's still plenty of healthy skepticism among pianists and scholars. While there is consensus that the notated piece is in Chopin's hand, Chopin's name and the title of piece seem to have been added by someone else. It's not even certain that was conceived as a waltz. EDIT: According to Jeffrey Kallberg (see below), the word “Valse” is in Chopin’s hand. Only Chopin’s name is not! The work is not signed by Chopin, and it is possible this is the product of a compositional exercise between Chopin and a student. It is also possible that Chopin transcribed somebody else's piece by ear out of curiosity, or for some other unknown purpose. Other oddities have been noted: the triple-forte that is out-of-proportion for such a short work, added fingerings that Chopin used only sparingly, and the 16th-beamed triplets in bars 10, 16, and 19 that should be 8th-triplets. Even if it is probable that the piece is an original work by Chopin that he simply chose not to develop and tossed aside, it might be wise to withhold judgement until more scholars have examined the evidence and a consensus is reached on the question of its authenticity! For now, the verdict is still out. Having said that, it is indisputably a charming work, and - now that I've gotten in my fingers and lived with it for a few hours - I can say definitively that it is at least "Chopinesque." ;) (My current favorite hypothesis is that this is, in fact, "a Chopin," but that it was an inside-joke of some kind composed for a friend that wasn't intended to be taken entirely seriously - that would help explain the triple-forte, and perhaps the fingerings too.) What do you think? Take a look at the manuscript for yourself: www.themorgan.org/sites/default/files/images/music/pages/452191/452191v_0001.jpg Meanwhile, there are lots of amazing Waltzes Chopin definitely did write that I wish the media paid more attention to! I'm in the middle of producing an in-depth series exploring Chopin's different compositional genres, and Episode 7: Waltzes is scheduled for release on November 15, starring Garrick Ohlsson and featuring special guests Stephen Hough and Mark Ainley. For more info, visit: www.chopinpodcast.com/
I respect the caution, but particularly the hypothesis that Chopin might’ve been transcribing someone else’s piece seems like a huge stretch - was he known to do this? And even if so, it just so happens to sound eerily similar to his style which he was so singular in at the time? That seems too farfetched to even entertain as a possibility in this case, so I’m curious if you could expand on its plausibility?
@@maui3947 Nah. it's because Chopin should (almost) never sound bombastic. It cheapens the music. Further, it doesn't take much strength to play fortissimo, even assuming Chopin's ill health, he surely would have been able to. Finally, show a bit more respect to the GOAT of piano
To my ear this is (by some margin) the best performance of the many that are already online. So many fun details - the emphasis on the chromatic lower neighbours in the repeat of the big diminished 7th flourish (Op.23 coda vibes), the clearly articulated inner voice in the opening, the way the e-e-g-f-e turnlike figure that leads into the second clause of the melody is played dotted and lifted in real mazurka style, the trill miniaturised into a mordent so that it can bloom into that big (emotionally, not dynamically) C chord. A really small work but a surprisingly sophisticated one. I'd be shocked if it wasn't actually written by Chopin because it's almost stereotypically him -- there' a bunch of things here that sound lifted right out of his works (especially his mazurkas -- come to think of it, most of the significant events in each bar happen on the 2nd/3rd beat. Not very waltz-like, but very mazur-ish).
@@AshishXiangyiKumar Very much appreciated! And thank you for everything you’ve done with your channel over the years. It’s been a regular reference and introduced me to many great recordings. Probably the best feature is your own thoughtful commentary, with attention to small-but-decisive details in every recording (as you show again here in this comment).
@@benlawdy Thanks! The YT channel is just a side hobby I seemed to have managed to continue over the years, so I'm always surprised and flattered when people say nice things about it. This goes without saying but your channel is a godsend and an absolute delight to follow. Lots of love for music without too much respect and entirely without the hand-wavey woo that sometimes infects the way we talk about music. And this isn't much mentioned but you're a very good interviewer too.
On that list one would have to include Schubert and I would add Guillaume Lekeu who wrote at least one masterpiece (his violin sonata) and several very promising works before dying at the age of 21. It is not unreasonable to think that, had he been granted even another 20 years, he could have matched the greatness of Debussy and Ravel.
I do believe this to be a sketch/rough draft of something Chopin wanted to materialize but being the perfectionist that he was, decided to abandon it. How it ended up where it was found is an interesting thing to ponder. I wish there was more solid evidence.
@@benlawdy There's a legal/investigative concept known as "chain of custody" where the line of people that have had "custody" over a document or article determines its authenticity. I concur that it would be very interesting to research what happened to this manuscript the moment it left Chopin's hand.
@@Jantsenpr777 If indeed it's Chopin's hand that it left. Alan Walker mentions in his book on Chopin (recently mentioned on this channel) that even experts would have difficulty distinguishing between Chopin's handwriting and Fontana's. But Chopin often started something by improvising and then massaged it into shape with great effort. The "rough draft" theory is certainly attractive.
I am a piano teacher, almost retired. Chopin was my first love when I was at school and did not know what a piano was. But there was always music in our house, courtesy of 78 rpm records, which were regularly played. The Chopin solo piano recordings were my favourite, as I learned when I got older. In my opinion this is a genuine Chopin composition. I accept that it is not his greatest work, but only he could have produced it. Pardon the awful pun, but it has his fingerprints all over it.
@@sgut1947 Agreed. What I find curious is that, as Chopinesque as many subsequent works by other composers may be, there was one, and only one Chopin "style:" his. This sounds as though it aligns with his style, so yes, the "rough draft" theory is a valid one. Let's see.
Incredible interpretation! You really captured the essence of this Waltz. I recently shared my own version, and I always find it amazing how each performance can feel so unique!🎶✨
It’s clearly Chopin. I understand the skepticism, but there’s simply no doubt re the elegance and the harmonic progression. It’s tempo di valse but clearly a very small mazurka. It’s lovely as is your interpretation.
After exploring various performances, both human and computer-generated, I finally found the most traditional interpretation of Chopin's new Waltz. Thank you to Mr. Laude-your talent is incredible!
Ben's performance feels more true to me and is far more Chopin than Lang's. When I heard Lang playing this piece, it sounded more like early Scriabin. It felt off-putting to some extent. This here is the version I will return to. Wonderful.
It's astounding to me how you can actually read the manuscript and play it, I can't begin to understand which notes are written, I've looked at it 300x and I know how to read music!
@@Velnox Lang lang in my opinion with Lisista (however you spell it) are the worst interpreters that people take seriously. Lang Lang is a showman with no substance, and Lisista just… isn’t that good COMPARED TO other high ranking performers.
I absolutely love this little piece. So many performances of it already which really demonstrates the plentiful interpretations you can have with music!
Ben, I am new to your channel. You are a brilliant pianist and I have subscribed! Whomever did write the piece was a genius. A powerful and unusual waltz. Bravo for your fine performance. I have been away from RUclips for quite a while and looking forward to recording some new works myself. Pleased to meet you! ~Jackie
@@grandduke011It has that gimpy rhythm of one of his mazurka's then switches mid-bar to a waltz. Maybe it's Ben's interpretation, yet Lang Lang plays it similarly to what Ben has produced here. Even in this short piece the idiosyncrasies of Chopin's soul shines through.
I was so hoping you’d post something on this piece and here it is😊😊 and your rendition is beautiful Ben! Can’t wait til more analysts weigh in about the piece. Curious to know what Garrick Ohlsson thinks
Thanks! It reminded me of playing this with a dear friend (sadly, departed) who played this with me as a four hand piano piece (we improvised it from the organ score. That would be around 60 years ago!
Gorgeous!!! You must have been so excited to be able to learn a newly discovered piece by Chopin! it's like he dropped a new single in 2024 😂 Perfect timing for your podcast!
IF it's by Chopin. I think it probably is, but we don't know yet. Something about the delicious voice leading makes me think so. But, for whatever reason, if that's the case, he didn't think it was worth developing (I've been taking it into C major at the end, a la op. 34 no. 2... works seamlessly...)
Maybe the A section of a waltz, since they're mostly written in A B A* form. It does sound like something Chopin would compose, but it's gotta be a draft of an abandonned piece, or an exercise, or something like that
The newly discovered Chopin waltz shares several notable similarities with various of his other compositions. For instance, the introduction resembles the opening of the Waltz in A Minor, Op. 34, No. 2, as both pieces begin in the piano’s lower register. The piece overall could even be considered an early compositional sketch that later through variations evolved into Op. 34, No. 2. In terms of dynamics, the abrupt crescendo leading to a triple forte is reminiscent of a similar technique found in the Prelude in E-flat Minor, Op. 28, No. 14. Additionally, the descending broken chord passage recalls the double-note chromatic scale at the end of the Prelude in D Minor, Op. 28, No. 24 (somehow). A more lyrical, mazurka-like section that follows is distinctly Chopinesque, characteristic of his early style. It evokes for me stylistically the first movement of his Sonata No. 1 in terms of passage and embellishment approach. Though I cannot confirm the authenticity of this work, its style does not suggest otherwise. Instead, it feels like an unfinished or less polished Chopin composition, If we were to encounter the Prelude in A Minor, Op. 28, No. 2 outside of its set, we might feel equally or actually even more skeptical of its authenticity.
Funny you say that, because when I reach the final cadence of this new piece, I find myself transitioning into the second section of Op. 34/2 - that modulation to C major. It works seamlessly.
Yes definitely it works. The ending motifs are similar before transitioning to the C major section. Also in regard to the descending passage besides the D minor Prelude, the beginning of the presto con fuoco in the second ballade is also a possible stylistic similarity. In any case thank you for this endeavor you take with these Chopin series it's a great insight.🙂
Hey Ben! (My name is also Ben). I love your podcast! I think it would be really cool if, in the waltzes episode (if it hasn't already been recorded), you discussed the lost Chopin waltzes, and the few bars of certain ones that were transcribed by his sister (if memory serves me), as well as the beautiful waltz no. 17 in E-flat major that the Chopin Institute doesn't recognize. I'd love to hear the opinions of you and Garrick on these topics.
Next week's leading news story: "Pianist Ben Laude found to be the source of a recent hoax, releasing a piece of music under the guise of it being a newly-discovered composition by Chopin, in an attempt to raise awareness of the upcoming International Chopin Piano Competition."
Nice work Ben. Excited to hear Stephen Hough is going to be on the podcast. I wanted to know if you've heard any of Howard Shelley's Chopin? His Preludes and Sonata No. 2 are top notch. (Also his Schumann Piano Concerto in A Minor is excellently refreshing). I found that from Ashish Xiangyi Kumar's youtube channel - definitely worth a look if you're into classical piano.
If Deep Fake can clone and animate a human voice and face, and AI can win chess and Go games with world champions, my Polish heart is turning on the skeptic in me about this new Chopin's "lost" waltz. I am not a Chopin scholar with the intellectual muscle such as yours to dissect any music, but there is something in this piece not harmonizing with my romantic gut. Beautiful none the less. Thank you for playing it instead of talking about it.
This sounds to me as if Chopin wrote every note and that it was left incomplete. This part sounds like a mazurka, but could have been a mazurka-like section within a waltz. Thank you!
Chopin's handwriting, characteristic features. Only triplets with sixteenth notes and half notes with dots at the end are confusing. The dramatic intro reminded me of the beginning of another waltz - E minor B.56 (also around 1829-1830, like this new). And the descending chords in bars 7-8 were reminiscent of the episode in D minor from Rondo Op.14. Perhaps this is the Valse A minor that was discovered in Vienna in 1937, but then its whereabouts became unknown? Some unknown valses by Chopin are still in private collections - for example, Arthur Hadley
I agree with you guys, it sounds more like Mazurka to me than Waltz. It does not sound finished (i.e. polished by genius perfectionist Chopin) but it has a lot of soul so it just might be Chopin. I love the musical though containing the measure 20, with its beauty, for me it is the real culmination of this work (and not the fff part) and it really feels like Chopin.
Great video! It is Locus Exemplorum. That is apparently what Bach taught his students - the COPYING of another composer. Please see Bruce Adolphe's video called 'Inside Chamber Music: Beethoven's Quartet in C minor for Strings, Op. 18, No. 4' where the great master Adolphe talks about how Bach taught this way of copying another composer.I also printed this one out and started learning - however I must admit I found it more tricky than I thought at first and so didn't have the time and gave up. However, I do not think it is by Chopin. The reason is that it is 'too good' to be true'. I mean, it is easy to make up a piece that sounds similar to Chopin. The thing is that the manuscript includes his name (like a signature) . I do not believe in the authenticity. Not at all. Then there is the fact that it was found by a amateur 'composer'. Then there is that crazy fff which he hardly ever used, and of course never in a waltz (as far as I know). I didn't know about the fingering being there - but that also strikes me as being suspicious, since I don't think he did that in his waltzes (though I know he did it in a few other works, and I may be mistaken here). But the bottom line is this - if I wanted to 'get a bit of fame for myself' and at the same time 'produce one of the greatest Chopin hoaxes of modern times {after the fake Majorca piano that your video-biographer guy explained so nicely)' - then I would certainly stick Chopin's name at the top...
Very beautiful! Harmonically and melodically I'd be very surprised if it weren't Chopin. Despite the waltzing, I'd rather put it in the tradition of the short Romantic character pieces.
The banker J P Morgan was an avid collector of music manuscripts. His former home in New York, now the Morgan Museum and Library, contains other 19th century manuscripts of Beethoven, Schumann and Brahms. There's no serious reason to doubt that this is genuine.
It’s certainly better than the last Beatle song they were just raving about. But I have my doubts, there are pianists out there that can make happy birthday sound like Chopin
It sounds like Chopin to me. Maybe unfinished or it was a simple piece he wrote for a friend or something, but if you showed me this and told me it was a new Chopin prelude, it would've felt right at home. It doesn't really sound like his other waltzes, but it does sound like Chopin.
@@Whatismusic123 when I play it, I want to break into the modulation to c major from op34/2. The argument that it’s “finished” is that he did write little single-section waltzes as gifts.
This not only sounds very chopinesque, but also, importantly, it doesn't sound like anyone else. so, given the supporting evidence, i have no problem accepting the attribution to chopin. but it is clearly incomplete. lots of lovely ideas he could have developed into another brilliant work. we'll probably never know why he didn't. it could be as simple as he meant to get back to it, was busy finishing other pieces, and never got around to it.
What piano are you using here? Looks like a Bosendorfer to me..? Sounds warm and rich. And thanks for all the nice work on the Chopin podcast video series you're releasing. It's epic.
Thank you for letting me Hear the piece. When it came on the news & LangLang played it, the journalist doing the reporting, spoke all over the performance. Cretin!
Imo, even undiscovered Chopin hits are better than the stuff nowadays 🔥💯 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.❤
Certainly not finished, occasionally slightly uncharacteristic maybe, but there's something about the voice work 0:22 to 0:30 (and again at the end), that's so Chopin for me.
Yes, now that I “play it” I can say it feels like Chopin. The voicings especially. Undeveloped Chopin, which is pretty cool to touch (even if he’d rather it be burned).
Last year my student played the piece entitled “Valse Melancholic”, long thought to be composed by Chopin, but now attributed to Charles Mayer. In my opinion the Mayer waltz sounds a lot more like Chopin than this new example.
Chopin had a wide variety of compositions, although many of his styles just aren't well known. Lots of composers over the past 200 years have tried to replicate Chopinesque melodies, and some have been successful.
I think it just has too many harmonies and phrase structures that only Chopin would have written. It doesn't sound like an imitation to me, and I've listened to everything chopin ever wrote.
Everything? There's more than just his opus numbers, he wrote a galop, a cantabile, tons of stuff, even songs for piano & voice or voice alone. Not to mention all of his lost works.
@@dunkleosteus430Yes everything. Including his songs, his early works and orchestral pieces, his late works, his posthumous works, his rare pieces including the fugue and Largo, and discoveries including his "devils trill" prelude sketch.
@@dunkleosteus430 I got Ashkenazys complete Chopin collection as a young child, and listened to it from beginning to end many times for years, then as I got older I started exploring other recordings like Rubinstein of course, and discovering everything by Chopin all my life, so I'm confident I've listened to everything chopin ever wrote several times.
This is played very well! For a long time, I would listen to classical piano music like this while drinking coffee. But then, one day I thought "could I play the piano maybe?" I didn't know, but I wanted to try. So, I got a piano and started practicing. I'm proud to say that I composed a song and put it on youtube. It's called "Two Moons Apart." I hope someone has time to listen to my song. Thanks :)
It seems like the first part of an incomplete waltz in my opinion. It probably is something he wrote early on and set aside and decided he didn't like it, or simply forgot about it.
I decided to learn and record the newly-discovered 'Waltz' attributed to Chopin. The media and some scholars are trumpeting this as a landmark discovery of an unknown work of Chopin, but I gather there's still plenty of healthy skepticism among pianists and scholars.
While there is consensus that the notated piece is in Chopin's hand, Chopin's name and the title of piece seem to have been added by someone else. It's not even certain that was conceived as a waltz.
EDIT: According to Jeffrey Kallberg (see below), the word “Valse” is in Chopin’s hand. Only Chopin’s name is not!
The work is not signed by Chopin, and it is possible this is the product of a compositional exercise between Chopin and a student. It is also possible that Chopin transcribed somebody else's piece by ear out of curiosity, or for some other unknown purpose. Other oddities have been noted: the triple-forte that is out-of-proportion for such a short work, added fingerings that Chopin used only sparingly, and the 16th-beamed triplets in bars 10, 16, and 19 that should be 8th-triplets.
Even if it is probable that the piece is an original work by Chopin that he simply chose not to develop and tossed aside, it might be wise to withhold judgement until more scholars have examined the evidence and a consensus is reached on the question of its authenticity! For now, the verdict is still out.
Having said that, it is indisputably a charming work, and - now that I've gotten in my fingers and lived with it for a few hours - I can say definitively that it is at least "Chopinesque." ;)
(My current favorite hypothesis is that this is, in fact, "a Chopin," but that it was an inside-joke of some kind composed for a friend that wasn't intended to be taken entirely seriously - that would help explain the triple-forte, and perhaps the fingerings too.)
What do you think? Take a look at the manuscript for yourself: www.themorgan.org/sites/default/files/images/music/pages/452191/452191v_0001.jpg
Meanwhile, there are lots of amazing Waltzes Chopin definitely did write that I wish the media paid more attention to! I'm in the middle of producing an in-depth series exploring Chopin's different compositional genres, and Episode 7: Waltzes is scheduled for release on November 15, starring Garrick Ohlsson and featuring special guests Stephen Hough and Mark Ainley.
For more info, visit: www.chopinpodcast.com/
Well, I enjoyed listening to you playing it :)
Do you think you'll feature any discussion about this "discovery" in the episode about waltzes? Or has it already been recorded?
@@T4Tea4two Working on it. Will probably have Garrick comment on it.
@@benlawdyAwesome, looking forward for this episode 😅
I respect the caution, but particularly the hypothesis that Chopin might’ve been transcribing someone else’s piece seems like a huge stretch - was he known to do this? And even if so, it just so happens to sound eerily similar to his style which he was so singular in at the time? That seems too farfetched to even entertain as a possibility in this case, so I’m curious if you could expand on its plausibility?
Chopin meant this as a You Tube Short.
He knew it would be trending, and he wasn't past putting out click-bait.
🤣
😂
@lawrencetaylor4101 for the win!
Thank you for not bashing the opening bars, the way so many others have been playing it. I enjoyed the performance.
It’s written as triple forte so bashing is justified
@@LiquidTurbothe very opening isn’t FFF. It builds up to that
Chopin never "bashed" the keys even if he wrote fortissimo... it must still remained civilized. @@LiquidTurbo
@@SpontaneityJD But that was because he was weak 😂😂
I do agree with what you guys are saying though..
@@maui3947 Nah. it's because Chopin should (almost) never sound bombastic. It cheapens the music. Further, it doesn't take much strength to play fortissimo, even assuming Chopin's ill health, he surely would have been able to. Finally, show a bit more respect to the GOAT of piano
To my ear this is (by some margin) the best performance of the many that are already online. So many fun details - the emphasis on the chromatic lower neighbours in the repeat of the big diminished 7th flourish (Op.23 coda vibes), the clearly articulated inner voice in the opening, the way the e-e-g-f-e turnlike figure that leads into the second clause of the melody is played dotted and lifted in real mazurka style, the trill miniaturised into a mordent so that it can bloom into that big (emotionally, not dynamically) C chord.
A really small work but a surprisingly sophisticated one. I'd be shocked if it wasn't actually written by Chopin because it's almost stereotypically him -- there' a bunch of things here that sound lifted right out of his works (especially his mazurkas -- come to think of it, most of the significant events in each bar happen on the 2nd/3rd beat. Not very waltz-like, but very mazur-ish).
@@AshishXiangyiKumar Very much appreciated! And thank you for everything you’ve done with your channel over the years. It’s been a regular reference and introduced me to many great recordings. Probably the best feature is your own thoughtful commentary, with attention to small-but-decisive details in every recording (as you show again here in this comment).
@@benlawdy Thanks! The YT channel is just a side hobby I seemed to have managed to continue over the years, so I'm always surprised and flattered when people say nice things about it.
This goes without saying but your channel is a godsend and an absolute delight to follow. Lots of love for music without too much respect and entirely without the hand-wavey woo that sometimes infects the way we talk about music. And this isn't much mentioned but you're a very good interviewer too.
@@AshishXiangyiKumar many thanks! Means a lot coming from as incisive a classical music listener as yourself.
You do a great job analyzing everything, as always!😂
Most like a mazurka. But chopin is always a different beast in a minor!
These composers are still dropping new works. Damn!
ruclips.net/video/30amRba13SY/видео.html
This is so magical to me, it's as if we're hearing something Chopin wrote from beyond the grave. Him dying at 39 is greatest tragedy in all of music.
Feel the same about Sibelius - he stopped composing altogether in his early/mid-fifties I think it was.
On that list one would have to include Schubert and I would add Guillaume Lekeu who wrote at least one masterpiece (his violin sonata) and several very promising works before dying at the age of 21. It is not unreasonable to think that, had he been granted even another 20 years, he could have matched the greatness of Debussy and Ravel.
Mozart and Schubert as well. All three so young and talented.
@@matttondr9282Schubert’s young death is especially tragic to me because he saw no public recognition in his lifetime :(
I do believe this to be a sketch/rough draft of something Chopin wanted to materialize but being the perfectionist that he was, decided to abandon it. How it ended up where it was found is an interesting thing to ponder. I wish there was more solid evidence.
Yeah that’s my thinking too. And I also would love to know the story since it left Chopin’s hand.
@@benlawdy There's a legal/investigative concept known as "chain of custody" where the line of people that have had "custody" over a document or article determines its authenticity. I concur that it would be very interesting to research what happened to this manuscript the moment it left Chopin's hand.
@@Jantsenpr777 If indeed it's Chopin's hand that it left. Alan Walker mentions in his book on Chopin (recently mentioned on this channel) that even experts would have difficulty distinguishing between Chopin's handwriting and Fontana's. But Chopin often started something by improvising and then massaged it into shape with great effort. The "rough draft" theory is certainly attractive.
I am a piano teacher, almost retired. Chopin was my first love when I was at school and did not know what a piano was. But there was always music in our house, courtesy of 78 rpm records, which were regularly played. The Chopin solo piano recordings were my favourite, as I learned when I got older. In my opinion this is a genuine Chopin composition. I accept that it is not his greatest work, but only he could have produced it. Pardon the awful pun, but it has his fingerprints all over it.
@@sgut1947 Agreed. What I find curious is that, as Chopinesque as many subsequent works by other composers may be, there was one, and only one Chopin "style:" his. This sounds as though it aligns with his style, so yes, the "rough draft" theory is a valid one. Let's see.
Incredible interpretation! You really captured the essence of this Waltz. I recently shared my own version, and I always find it amazing how each performance can feel so unique!🎶✨
Best interpretation I've heard so far. Great work!
This is pretty good as well: ruclips.net/user/shortsB-2i-Q4xUpI?feature=shared
Definitely the best recording by far
I recommend this version every time. Ben knocked it out of the park!
It’s clearly Chopin. I understand the skepticism, but there’s simply no doubt re the elegance and the harmonic progression. It’s tempo di valse but clearly a very small mazurka. It’s lovely as is your interpretation.
After exploring various performances, both human and computer-generated, I finally found the most traditional interpretation of Chopin's new Waltz. Thank you to Mr. Laude-your talent is incredible!
I appreciate you not completely showering the piece with rubato to the point where you can't even tell it's a waltz. Lovely interpretation.
I prefer even less rubato than this
Ben's performance feels more true to me and is far more Chopin than Lang's. When I heard Lang playing this piece, it sounded more like early Scriabin. It felt off-putting to some extent. This here is the version I will return to. Wonderful.
I played through this waltz myself…I personally didn’t find the 8 bar intro very “Chopinesque”. Your playing changed my mind. 😋👍
Well that's due to Ben really Chopining it up. 😉
It's astounding to me how you can actually read the manuscript and play it, I can't begin to understand which notes are written, I've looked at it 300x and I know how to read music!
You play it much better than Lang Lang that's for sure lol
One of my motivations for recording it…
@@benlawdyand that is definitely Chopin. Played it myself and I have no doubt in my mind. Great piece!
@@nintendianajones64Lang Lang is so overrated, we don't want to hear banging for Chopin, someone tell him to leave that for Beethoven
@@Velnox Lang lang in my opinion with Lisista (however you spell it) are the worst interpreters that people take seriously. Lang Lang is a showman with no substance, and Lisista just… isn’t that good COMPARED TO other high ranking performers.
@@benlawdyPolite savagery 😂
Wow! The best recording so far. It sounds much more mature when the fortes aren’t taken so literally. And the little ornaments are crisp. Very nice
A brilliant piece and brillant performance. Thank you, good sir.
NICE, BEEN LOOKING FOR THE WHOLE PERFORMANCE FOR THE LAST FEW DAYS, VERY NICE !!! THANK YOU !!!
Good playing. The piece sounds more like a mazurka than a waltz. The harmonic progression near the end is typically found in many of his mazurkas.
I absolutely love this little piece. So many performances of it already which really demonstrates the plentiful interpretations you can have with music!
Ben, I am new to your channel. You are a brilliant pianist and I have subscribed! Whomever did write the piece was a genius. A powerful and unusual waltz. Bravo for your fine performance. I have been away from RUclips for quite a while and looking forward to recording some new works myself. Pleased to meet you! ~Jackie
It's sounds like a hybrid of a Chopin waltz and mazurka.
My thoughts exactly
@@grandduke011It has that gimpy rhythm of one of his mazurka's then switches mid-bar to a waltz. Maybe it's Ben's interpretation, yet Lang Lang plays it similarly to what Ben has produced here. Even in this short piece the idiosyncrasies of Chopin's soul shines through.
Just came to see if you uploaded about this. Lovely voicing by the way
We need more of these discoveries.
We need to discover Beethoven symphonies 10-19 piano concertos 6-10 and violin concertos 2-100 let's go!
Your wishes will be granted, thanks to AI.
I was so hoping you’d post something on this piece and here it is😊😊 and your rendition is beautiful Ben! Can’t wait til more analysts weigh in about the piece. Curious to know what Garrick Ohlsson thinks
Thanks! It reminded me of playing this with a dear friend (sadly, departed) who played this with me as a four hand piano piece (we improvised it from the organ score. That would be around 60 years ago!
The timing on this discovery is spot on for the podcast! Cant wait to hear Garricks and your discussion on the piece. Enjoyed the playing, thanks!
Gorgeous!!! You must have been so excited to be able to learn a newly discovered piece by Chopin! it's like he dropped a new single in 2024 😂 Perfect timing for your podcast!
IF it's by Chopin. I think it probably is, but we don't know yet. Something about the delicious voice leading makes me think so. But, for whatever reason, if that's the case, he didn't think it was worth developing (I've been taking it into C major at the end, a la op. 34 no. 2... works seamlessly...)
0:54 I love how you played this
A beautiful performance of a lovely little sketch. Many thanks for posting.
The beginning of the waltz kind of reminds me of the 14th prelude. Nice playing!
Chopin finally fulfilled our requests for a new piece.
I had to respond after Mozart dropped
Beautiful , so beautiful 👏🏻👏🏻
I love how musical you play this! It sings so well!
Maybe the A section of a waltz, since they're mostly written in A B A* form. It does sound like something Chopin would compose, but it's gotta be a draft of an abandonned piece, or an exercise, or something like that
Best interpretation i've heard. Thank you.
WHAT?! Is this real?? It's amazing!
The newly discovered Chopin waltz shares several notable similarities with various of his other compositions.
For instance, the introduction resembles the opening of the Waltz in A Minor, Op. 34, No. 2, as both pieces begin in the piano’s lower register. The piece overall could even be considered an early compositional sketch that later through variations evolved into Op. 34, No. 2.
In terms of dynamics, the abrupt crescendo leading to a triple forte is reminiscent of a similar technique found in the Prelude in E-flat Minor, Op. 28, No. 14. Additionally, the descending broken chord passage recalls the double-note chromatic scale at the end of the Prelude in D Minor, Op. 28, No. 24 (somehow).
A more lyrical, mazurka-like section that follows is distinctly Chopinesque, characteristic of his early style. It evokes for me stylistically the first movement of his Sonata No. 1 in terms of passage and embellishment approach.
Though I cannot confirm the authenticity of this work, its style does not suggest otherwise. Instead, it feels like an unfinished or less polished Chopin composition, If we were to encounter the Prelude in A Minor, Op. 28, No. 2 outside of its set, we might feel equally or actually even more skeptical of its authenticity.
Funny you say that, because when I reach the final cadence of this new piece, I find myself transitioning into the second section of Op. 34/2 - that modulation to C major. It works seamlessly.
Yes definitely it works. The ending motifs are similar before transitioning to the C major section.
Also in regard to the descending passage besides the D minor Prelude, the beginning of the presto con fuoco in the second ballade is also a possible stylistic similarity.
In any case thank you for this endeavor you take with these Chopin series it's a great insight.🙂
@ yes the second ballade occurs to me / actually a passage in the coda is even more like this one. I don’t think that outcry is un-chopinesque at all
Sounds very Chopin to me!
May I know which make and model is Maestro Laude's grand piano? 🎹
Best version of this newly discovered Chopin piece!
agree
So exquisitely performed, does it even matter who wrote it? Thank you, Ben Laude! 😊...
Interesting video, thank you! Could the work be a mazurka?
Phenomenal playing!
Hey Ben! (My name is also Ben). I love your podcast! I think it would be really cool if, in the waltzes episode (if it hasn't already been recorded), you discussed the lost Chopin waltzes, and the few bars of certain ones that were transcribed by his sister (if memory serves me), as well as the beautiful waltz no. 17 in E-flat major that the Chopin Institute doesn't recognize. I'd love to hear the opinions of you and Garrick on these topics.
Next week's leading news story: "Pianist Ben Laude found to be the source of a recent hoax, releasing a piece of music under the guise of it being a newly-discovered composition by Chopin, in an attempt to raise awareness of the upcoming International Chopin Piano Competition."
Beautifully and authentically played!
There are a lot out there but this one really nailed it!
Nice work Ben. Excited to hear Stephen Hough is going to be on the podcast. I wanted to know if you've heard any of Howard Shelley's Chopin? His Preludes and Sonata No. 2 are top notch. (Also his Schumann Piano Concerto in A Minor is excellently refreshing). I found that from Ashish Xiangyi Kumar's youtube channel - definitely worth a look if you're into classical piano.
@@ianpiano17 I only know Howard Shelley’s Rachmaninoff! (And now that you mention it, I think the Schumann as well from AXK’s channel)
Well played, sir! Bravo!
I love your channel and what you share in every video❤
What the heck. How many WIMS are there at this point??
@Jartious Lots of
Nicely done and healthier than Lang Lang’s reading!
Fun that the timing worked out so that this could come up on the podcast
Yes, VEERRRY convenient... My plan to become master Chopin forger and ensure the "discovery" of this manuscript is working perfectly!
It also helps that you know Chopin personally
@@micahglesener3978 after all, @benlawdy has the t-shirt so they're clearly in cahoots! :)
Beautiful playing!
If Deep Fake can clone and animate a human voice and face, and AI can win chess and Go games with world champions, my Polish heart is turning on the skeptic in me about this new Chopin's "lost" waltz. I am not a Chopin scholar with the intellectual muscle such as yours to dissect any music, but there is something in this piece not harmonizing with my romantic gut. Beautiful none the less. Thank you for playing it instead of talking about it.
so great, thank you Ben. Greetings from Taiwan.
Excellent performance.
This sounds to me as if Chopin wrote every note and that it was left incomplete. This part sounds like a mazurka, but could have been a mazurka-like section within a waltz. Thank you!
That's my feeling too. And it's true that we don't know it was intended as a Waltz. Somebody just wrote "Valse" on the manuscript...
no it's absolutely a waltz, it's just mazurka-esuqe, I'd say it best to call it valse à la mazur or something similar
@ I might not have played it in such a waltzy manner
You make better sense of this strange piece than Lang Lang - that's for sure.
Wow, short but intense 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Chopin's handwriting, characteristic features. Only triplets with sixteenth notes and half notes with dots at the end are confusing.
The dramatic intro reminded me of the beginning of another waltz - E minor B.56 (also around 1829-1830, like this new). And the descending chords in bars 7-8 were reminiscent of the episode in D minor from Rondo Op.14.
Perhaps this is the Valse A minor that was discovered in Vienna in 1937, but then its whereabouts became unknown? Some unknown valses by Chopin are still in private collections - for example, Arthur Hadley
Nice interpretation🎉🎉🎉
Some of the passages sound the way Chopin would treat a mazurka theme. I did think it was Chopin. Some of the chord progressions are very Chopinesque.
I think I play it like a Mazurka too
I agree with you guys, it sounds more like Mazurka to me than Waltz. It does not sound finished (i.e. polished by genius perfectionist Chopin) but it has a lot of soul so it just might be Chopin. I love the musical though containing the measure 20, with its beauty, for me it is the real culmination of this work (and not the fff part) and it really feels like Chopin.
It has Hummel's stylistic writing in it, so I'm going to say this is pretty much legit
On the BBC it has been suggested the piece was a gift for friend.
Great video! It is Locus Exemplorum. That is apparently what Bach taught his students - the COPYING of another composer. Please see Bruce Adolphe's video called 'Inside Chamber Music: Beethoven's Quartet in C minor for Strings, Op. 18, No. 4' where the great master Adolphe talks about how Bach taught this way of copying another composer.I also printed this one out and started learning - however I must admit I found it more tricky than I thought at first and so didn't have the time and gave up. However, I do not think it is by Chopin. The reason is that it is 'too good' to be true'. I mean, it is easy to make up a piece that sounds similar to Chopin. The thing is that the manuscript includes his name (like a signature) . I do not believe in the authenticity. Not at all. Then there is the fact that it was found by a amateur 'composer'. Then there is that crazy fff which he hardly ever used, and of course never in a waltz (as far as I know). I didn't know about the fingering being there - but that also strikes me as being suspicious, since I don't think he did that in his waltzes (though I know he did it in a few other works, and I may be mistaken here).
But the bottom line is this - if I wanted to 'get a bit of fame for myself' and at the same time 'produce one of the greatest Chopin hoaxes of modern times {after the fake Majorca piano that your video-biographer guy explained so nicely)' - then I would certainly stick Chopin's name at the top...
I certainly enjoyed your rendition a lot more than the one the Lang Lang did.
Very beautiful! Harmonically and melodically I'd be very surprised if it weren't Chopin. Despite the waltzing, I'd rather put it in the tradition of the short Romantic character pieces.
I prefer his études, préludes and scherzos to the rest. The most refined of all the great composers.
The banker J P Morgan was an avid collector of music manuscripts. His former home in New York, now the Morgan Museum and Library, contains other 19th century manuscripts of Beethoven, Schumann and Brahms. There's no serious reason to doubt that this is genuine.
It’s certainly better than the last Beatle song they were just raving about. But I have my doubts, there are pianists out there that can make happy birthday sound like Chopin
You played it beautifully. I hope someone converts it to modern printed notation.
I like this Mazurka Style, thanks
It sounds like Chopin to me. Maybe unfinished or it was a simple piece he wrote for a friend or something, but if you showed me this and told me it was a new Chopin prelude, it would've felt right at home. It doesn't really sound like his other waltzes, but it does sound like Chopin.
Yeah, probably is. But we don’t actually know!
it's unfinished
@@benlawdy I do know. it is unfinished.
@@Whatismusic123 when I play it, I want to break into the modulation to c major from op34/2.
The argument that it’s “finished” is that he did write little single-section waltzes as gifts.
@@benlawdy yeah it definitely needs to go to C major next
Nice little piece regardless.
Sounds more like a mazurka to me... but beautifully played.
Chopin or not..thanks for playing it for us
My pleasure. It's a nice little piece/fragment.
It really sounds more like a mazurka doesn’t it?
Kinda. I also lean into the Mazurka side of it.
This not only sounds very chopinesque, but also, importantly, it doesn't sound like anyone else. so, given the supporting evidence, i have no problem accepting the attribution to chopin. but it is clearly incomplete. lots of lovely ideas he could have developed into another brilliant work. we'll probably never know why he didn't. it could be as simple as he meant to get back to it, was busy finishing other pieces, and never got around to it.
What piano are you using here? Looks like a Bosendorfer to me..? Sounds warm and rich.
And thanks for all the nice work on the Chopin podcast video series you're releasing. It's epic.
Great interpretation. Whether it is Chopin's or not.
Well, you make it sound like Chopin!
And already memorized!!!!
Thank you for letting me Hear the piece. When it came on the news & LangLang played it, the journalist doing the reporting, spoke all over the performance. Cretin!
Imo, even undiscovered Chopin hits are better than the stuff nowadays 🔥💯
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.❤
Nice!
Certainly not finished, occasionally slightly uncharacteristic maybe, but there's something about the voice work 0:22 to 0:30 (and again at the end), that's so Chopin for me.
Yes, now that I “play it” I can say it feels like Chopin. The voicings especially. Undeveloped Chopin, which is pretty cool to touch (even if he’d rather it be burned).
I dont know if it was something on purpose but it has a mazurka-like sound
Thanks so much for the recording! Otherwise we would have had to listen to Lang Lang 😢
Last year my student played the piece entitled “Valse Melancholic”, long thought to be composed by Chopin, but now attributed to Charles Mayer. In my opinion the Mayer waltz sounds a lot more like Chopin than this new example.
Chopin had a wide variety of compositions, although many of his styles just aren't well known. Lots of composers over the past 200 years have tried to replicate Chopinesque melodies, and some have been successful.
I hope it is by Chopin. Nothing wrong with this fine Waltz.
That was great!
I think it just has too many harmonies and phrase structures that only Chopin would have written. It doesn't sound like an imitation to me, and I've listened to everything chopin ever wrote.
Everything? There's more than just his opus numbers, he wrote a galop, a cantabile, tons of stuff, even songs for piano & voice or voice alone. Not to mention all of his lost works.
@@dunkleosteus430Yes everything. Including his songs, his early works and orchestral pieces, his late works, his posthumous works, his rare pieces including the fugue and Largo, and discoveries including his "devils trill" prelude sketch.
@PieInTheSky9 that's a lot! Even his pieces for voice alone?
@@PieInTheSky9 nice, how long did it take?
@@dunkleosteus430 I got Ashkenazys complete Chopin collection as a young child, and listened to it from beginning to end many times for years, then as I got older I started exploring other recordings like Rubinstein of course, and discovering everything by Chopin all my life, so I'm confident I've listened to everything chopin ever wrote several times.
This is played very well! For a long time, I would listen to classical piano music like this while drinking coffee. But then, one day I thought "could I play the piano maybe?" I didn't know, but I wanted to try. So, I got a piano and started practicing. I'm proud to say that I composed a song and put it on youtube. It's called "Two Moons Apart." I hope someone has time to listen to my song. Thanks :)
I'm wondering if there was meant to be a middle section 🤔
Oh, thank you so much. I was desperate to hear this but refuse to listen to, or watch, Lang Lang.
It seems like the first part of an incomplete waltz in my opinion. It probably is something he wrote early on and set aside and decided he didn't like it, or simply forgot about it.