Yes, it fits perfectly ;-) It's a fake, constructed of a few "chopinesque" phrases. But the fff makes no sense in such a short fragment and the bottom A for so long at the beginning of a ( even longer planned ) piece seems to be too artificial. And it just sounds a little cheap, can't help it.
@@paulmeisel339 Pretty clever fake if it is one. His use of diminished 7ths and chromatic themes is doable, but there is a lot more to it than that. You have to be a talented composer to come up with all the echoes so naturally, and really get into Chopin's head. It's It's a bit raucous here and there, but then so are some of his preludes! However, the writing and manuscript paper would take some serious faking - if there was money to me made I might be more suspicious...
"Immediately unrecognisable but instantly recognisable" - that's it in a nutshell. If I had heard this without the context of the tale of a discovered ms, I'd have sworn blind it was Chopin but then have become confused at not knowing which specific piece. Even if the card had been written in Elton John's handwriting I'd be on the side of Team "That's odd, I am 110% sure it's Chopin"! (Edit add-on): Incidentally this is my first listen of it. Sir, you have the honour of being the messenger to my ears of this very charming and densely musical New Thing. You do it with just the perfect mix of panache, chat and Loki.
@@marikothecheetah9342 Do you mean Op.9 No.2 (in Eb major)? That's one of my faves, too. More than 50y ago, I bought a whole book of Chopin sheet music just because that Nocturne was in it! Fred
Agreed but even the Mazurkas are marked by harmonic evolution; whether voicing changes, passing notes in the relative key to comment on two. Love the Mazurkas as they are a gateway for players sincere in wishing to play the more complex and compelling music.
The descending passage on diminished, ferocius, sevenths is basically the entire pattern on op 25 no 11, which is also in A Minor. It is at least something where Chopin intervened. It could be a improvisation, an exercise for a student, a sketch he considered not good enough... but you can hear Chopin on this waltz
Definitely, it could be either an exercise for a student, or undeveloped abandoned idea for 3/4 piece. Could be a waltz, prelude, mazurka (?? - not sure here) or an “ingredient” for a ballad. It could be just the first page of a longer composition. We may never know (given if it indeed is Chopin). I can point to several questionable passages in this short piece, some details that aren’t 100 percent Chopin though…But once again : it may be Chopin, but unrefined, not polished.
I was thinking that if someone wrote this in his style, then that guy is worth listening to cos this is almost impossible to deny that it is Chopin's writing. And I can't explain why.
I think what clinches it is the inevitanility of that c major breakthrough turning on a dime, back into a minor with elegance and conviction: he makes it feel satisfying(!) to be back in the land of tears after the the clouds quickly hide the sun. Man, that's why I stayed away from Chopin most of my life- couldn't handle the tragedy and gloom. Now I can. I've grown up!
@@JoeLinux2000I think, it's a fake. Just a few "chopinesque" Phrases in a row. The bottom A for so long doesn't make musical sense and Chopin would never had written fff in such a short fragment. It's a mediocre fake for RUclipsrs...
@@paulmeisel339 Go right ahead spoiling your own enjoyment and that of others with pseudo-clever arguments! I once said in a different context that intelligence carried beyond a certain point of no return becomes uninteresting!
@@fredrickroll06 Where are your arguments? It's my opinion after have been playing most of Chopin's works. It's not at all about cleverness, it's about my musical experience, taste and knowledge.
I just about spit out my coffee when I saw the title of this video! Chopin is the peak of the pyramid of my favorite composers, and perhaps the one composer whose music I could not imagine my life without. Thank you for sharing this miniature wonder!
The development of one simple chromatic fall. Chopin is able to make the most pained screams elegant and the tamest transitions barbaric in their own right, a very personal style. And I love it!
Amazing video. I'm very satisfied in the way you performed the waltz, I agree with your performance. I Indeed think this was composed by Chopin even if at the beginning I was skeptical. I finished the whole waltz, I mean I composed the rest to finish it and performed it on my channel, I also wrote an article analyzing it, but I will make a compositional and harmonic video in the future too cause this is a very fascinating piece!
Great analysis, which shows how carefully and expertly this piece is constructed, despite its brevity. I'm 100% sure this is authentic Chopin: that "searching" phrase at the beginning, that outburst that prolongs the "search" by delaying the resolution but eventually brings it home, the fragments of chromatic scale that recall each other... As others have already pointed out, I think it is stylistically more akin to a mazurka than to a waltz.
I thoroughly enjoyed this--thank you very much for sharing your thoughts and comments on this recently discovered tiny but delectable bit of Chopin! Interesting that the waltz is in A minor since we know--or at least I recall reading as much--that Chopin's own favorite of his Waltzes was the melancholy one in A minor.
I have nothing to add to your analysis, you put this beautifully, Professor, thank you! (Ah, I'll say, the waltz is hauntingly beautiful, I can't get enough of it, so there). I wonder what would've been of it had Chopin written a couple of additional episodes to go with the main theme; in the end, I just hope it becomes the runaway hit of 2024, 200 years late for the composer but never too late for us music lovers.
Another thing, I'm betting this is the first page of a longer piece that was completed but the other pages are still missing. And your analysis is wonderful. Thank you.
First up: great performance. Splendid commentary and highlighting the contrast with the recent (classical tropes) early Mozart and also AI versus human genius. Thanks!
My personal dream would be for someone to miraculously discover the completed Latin Requiem by Max Reger. He died too early to complete this monster of a work.
Great analyse, thank you! I lack your expert knowledge, but l know Chopin's music extremely well by heart, being a lover for over 30 years. I heard his voice in this piece instantly. If this should prove a forgery, the impostor must be equally amazing, and I want to know him/her. The introduction reminded me immediately of Chopin's Prelude op.28/14, the whole thing has a sort of slightly demonic, ominous atmosphere (like waltzing with the devil). And yet so classy. I don't know any other composer of Chopin's era who could create such marvellous, ambivalent, even disturbing moods with such grace and elegance. (Maybe some would point out Wagner, but I disagree, Wagner was daring and very expressive in his own right, but I wouldn't describe his music as elegant or graceful!)
This is my new favorite channel. Thank you for dedicating your life to music. It’s dudes like you that keep my creativity and passion alive in its darkest places
Funny but my first thoughts reminded me of the scherzo of piano sonata no2 in b flat minor. Although it is mazurka like in some respects it doesn't have that accented 2nd beat. A great find and a great description. I fell in love with Chopin from around 10 years old thanks to my fathers love of music.
Best video I’ve seen in weeks. Potential new Chopin + brill analysis by a clearly educated pianist who I’ve never heard of before. Excellent and endearing presentation 🙌
Yes Utsyo - it’s structurally related certainly (though op. 7 no. 5 is even more concise and more ostentatiously folky!) And there is also the wonderful late ‘infinite’ mazurka in F minor and a couple of other ‘infinite’ mazurkas which resemble it in form and character.
Besides the piece, your channel, Sir, is pure gold as well. Discussing this piece in such an eloquent way is simply a joy. The hidden melodies, the melodic easter eggs, are with no doubt one of Chopin's signature. Wonderful analysis. Thank you very much. 🙏 🎼 🎹
Thank you for sharing this, I just heard about this a few days ago. It certainly sounds like his music. No other composure wrote for the piano like him..
I am so pleased that you say that it is precisely the unexpected elements that makes this so convincingly Chopin. That is exactly how it seems to me. I have been surprised to find supposed experts claim that they make them question its authenticity, An excellent and revealing analysis as always.
Saw the news clip of this with Lang Lang debuting it, this is just so cool! In fact, I might give it a go at playing it myself. I reckon the number of people who have played this beautiful gem so far is less than 10,000, maybe even less than 1,000. When else can you say that about Chopin?
It's not Chopin. It's a fake, clickbait and playbait. Some "chopinesque" Phrases thrown on the page, but the bottom A for so long makes no sense. Same with the fff in such a short fragment. And it sounds just a little cheap too.
@@paulmeisel339 no, his posthumous waltzes are all kinda boring, they’re quick gifts for friends, he actually told his sister to burn them but luckily she disobeyed him.
I agree this sounds like an instant classic! (no pun intended). Will this start conspiract theories about Chopin being alive and well living in Agentina? :P
Chopin is by far the most difficult to imitate. All the tryers either have emotion but they lose the texture, either the texture but not the facture.... I'm quite convinced that some of the official (but posthume) waltz are actually not from Chopin (like the 17 th) but this one definitely sounds like Chopin ! (it's a bit short so maybe it was just a draft, but I'm quite sure this one is from Chopin, if I'm wrong it is even better : that meen that there is some alive Chopin in nature hahahah but I doubt) Thank you for this I'm so moved by this
Considering that I spent the time before listening to your video just listening to the Chopin Waltz several times on repeat, I cannot but agree that this piece is among his ad infinitum works. It is so inspiring to see a new Chopin piece given the appreciation and analysis it really deserves. As a composer, I always take such great inspiration from these videos. Best of wishes, dear friend!
The bass is a very typical unfolding of a minor key, i, III V i , with a passing tone iv between III and V. This is the standard structure, in miniature, that many minor key symphonic movements are based on.. Theme 1 in the i, theme 2 in III development passing from III to V in iv, finally arriving at V before the final recap in i. it has some very interesting added chromatic color, but the basic structure is pretty standard minor key form.
Wonderful Chopin. Clearly authentic - but I can’t help feeling it’s incomplete. Somewhere, in some dusty library, the whole thing awaits in all its published glory.
I agree with your analysis. When I heard it I immediately thought "obviously Chopin; couldn't be anything else." First of all there are some things in it that are too GOOD to be anyone faking it. And the intro with the fortissimo descending passage is hardly characteristic, but for that very reason something that a forger would never do, especially at the beginning of a piece. That said, I applaud people who are trying to complete it with another section. It really cries out for it.
You are my new hero. All the little subtleties I thought indicated this is authentic you point out here. In New York there is much talk that it is a forgery.
Something interesting I noticed at 14:04 is if you look at the RH the chromatic descent is inverted (E-F-F#-G), which I guess is consistent with this part being the only major-key part of the piece.
I knew it was Chopin as soon as I heard it. This is so magical to me, it's as if we're hearing something Chopin wrote from beyond the grave. Him dying at 39 is the greatest tragedy in all of music.
Thanks so much for breaking it down like that it really helps us mere mortals. I felt guilty when the new one dropped as I haven't listened to all the existing ones yet 😅 but I certainly will now.
Thanks so much for this! Quite an extraordinary little piece! Very worthwhile discovery. When it comes to Mozart, I agree about the little serenade...but it is worth listening to, I think...especially the second movement and the catchy little finale. Of Mozart's early stuff, there are some pretty precocious works in my opinion: especially vocal efforts like the opera Mitridate, and the oratorio La Betulia liberata, with gripping minor key choruses and the lead given, unusually, to a contralto! I guess the composer's dramatic gift may have developed before his full compositional maturity? Supposedly he liked Betulia so much that it was performed again with some newly composed choruses (now lost!) in Vienna in 1784. Now THOSE I would like to see turn up in somebody's library!
Oh this is so loopable! This melodramatic theme goes round and round in my head like a carousel. Your interpretation helps though! So thank you :)! …maybe that is the reason Chopin never made it public😉.
This makes me so happy. I would love it if his ideas had been worked out further but what's there is an instant top work of his for me. Could one work a little ornamentation and emphasis into it and maybe play it twice or three times, to see how it works as an extended piece in repeated succession? Not sure what tools are available for interpretation that don't change it too much. I might try to play your rendition in a loop and see if any parts compound for me. Thank you so much for covering this :)
@@matthewking1873 There are elements that feel introductory to me that I might not have for the first repetition, maybe introduce it for the final as a sort of return... I think I'll experiment a bit. The melancholy feels especially strong in this to me, can't help but be touched by it
With so much interest in it, I think certain people may develop it, and there will end up being many different versions. It could even become an element of the International Chopin competition to comp0lete it or improvise on it.
Indeed. Many of his waltzes seem a little bit superficial to me. Nice but nothing special. This one grips you by the throat right away and it makes you wish there was more of it.
As always a mistery why an artist has an idea and then decides to not further elaborate. This really screams for a continuation. It's just the first phrase. So unmistakingly Chopin that you would want to go back in time, take the man by the shoulders and shake him and scream: DO MORE! Especially because as opposed to that small Mozart Serenade, its a piece he sketched when he as fully matured as a composer, whereas the Mozart is just... youthful Mozart and therefore nothing special. Just like you said. As with Schubert, when he abandoned an idea and left us with another of his fragments.
Some creative artists make the most of a trickle of ideas. Others have far more ideas than they can ever develop. I've read that Chopin was an improviser-composer.
I think it's lovely and very chopinesque. Probably, a fragment or sketch that could have been developed into a much larger piece, but also works as it is. If it turns out to be a faux discovery, i it is well done. I wonder how this piece ended up in a library-museum in NY
The only real way to break AI's limitations is to tell it to do something it's never done before. If you give it a prompt, as they say, that is completely out of left field- some combination of extremely contrasting elements- the end result will be something actually somewhat original. It's actually kind of remarkable how seamlessly it can blend things, at least when making images or writing. This is coming from somebody who experiments a lot with AI, if only to see what it does.
Well… as a pianist/composer myself I played tons of Chopin in my life - enough to “filter out” certain ways of Chopin’s thinking process, certain hand and fingers positions etc. This short “waltz” if this is indeed authentic Chopin’s manuscript, shows few things that show certain inconsistencies when it comes down to his stylistics as a composer/improviser. This could have been either an attempt for a full composition that never got continued (eventually abandoned and forgotten by the composer) or a short gift scribbled quickly without refining so characteristic to Chopin. There’s another possibility : the following pages have either been lost or still wait to be discovered somewhere… After playing through the sheet music from this video (stopping the screen) looking throughout the 1-page manuscript photo online, I am almost positive it is Chopin, but either not-refined (Chopin was extremely detailed with virtually everything he has ever written) or refinement and development (especially the left hand) happens in continuation. Hopefully we’ll find it one day 😊
There are two oddities here which are uncharacteristic of Chopin. In the manuscript a basic rhythmic error shows up three times, where triplet 8th notes are written as triplet 16ths. It’s impossible to imagine Chopin capable of this, considering the ubiquity of this pattern throughout his waltzes and mazurkas. Also throughout these collections of dances one finds not a single fff marking. Stylistically the waltz’s individual passages seem sufficiently Chopinesque to believe it may be authentic, but the excessive drama and dissonance so early on and in such a miniature seem to protest too much. But the manuscript looks far too genuine to be a forgery. My guess is he wrote it on request from a student willing to pay him a goodly fee for a waltz that must be short and not difficult but full as possible of drama and temperament. (He may well have taught it as he included fingerings). He may have converted the 8ths to 16ths to prevent the student from dragging the tempo at these spots.
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Perfectly fits today's shortened attention span and RUclips Shorts Trend.
Chopin once again up to date! What a Legend.
ahahah perfect 🙌🏼
Yes, it fits perfectly ;-)
It's a fake, constructed of a few "chopinesque" phrases. But the fff makes no sense in such a short fragment and the bottom A for so long at the beginning of a ( even longer planned ) piece seems to be too artificial. And it just sounds a little cheap, can't help it.
@@paulmeisel339 interesting theory, its like an unfinished fragment, i could see that being chopin
@@paulmeisel339 Pretty clever fake if it is one. His use of diminished 7ths and chromatic themes is doable, but there is a lot more to it than that. You have to be a talented composer to come up with all the echoes so naturally, and really get into Chopin's head. It's It's a bit raucous here and there, but then so are some of his preludes! However, the writing and manuscript paper would take some serious faking - if there was money to me made I might be more suspicious...
Finally a true "minute" waltz lol
2024 will forever live in my mind as the year Mozart and Chopin finally battled for ultimate supremacy with their new singles.
😂
"Immediately unrecognisable but instantly recognisable" - that's it in a nutshell. If I had heard this without the context of the tale of a discovered ms, I'd have sworn blind it was Chopin but then have become confused at not knowing which specific piece.
Even if the card had been written in Elton John's handwriting I'd be on the side of Team "That's odd, I am 110% sure it's Chopin"!
(Edit add-on): Incidentally this is my first listen of it. Sir, you have the honour of being the messenger to my ears of this very charming and densely musical New Thing. You do it with just the perfect mix of panache, chat and Loki.
My first thought after listening to the first notes: that is so Chopin.
Thank you so much. Lovely comment!
@@themusicprofessor thank you! I am not a musician, but I love classical music and Chopin's Nocturne no. 9 is one of my favourites.
@@marikothecheetah9342 Do you mean Op.9 No.2 (in Eb major)? That's one of my faves, too.
More than 50y ago, I bought a whole book of Chopin sheet music just because that Nocturne was in it!
Fred
Loki (the dog) is staring directly at us in the beginning!
He was waiting for a treat.
I felt him steal a piece of my soul with that stare.
He was so still I thought he had to be stuffed
Saying "listen to this bit" 😅
Dog Vinheitero 😂
Glad you mentioned mazurkas several times. To me, this feels so much more like many of his mazurkas than his great waltzes.
It does have the tonality of a mazurka.
Agreed but even the Mazurkas are marked by harmonic evolution; whether voicing changes, passing notes in the relative key to comment on two. Love the Mazurkas as they are a gateway for players sincere in wishing to play the more complex and compelling music.
I agree.
Absolutely - I suspect it's actually an 'infinity Mazurka' - very much a Chopin genre: there are a couple of published ones.
Exactly.
yo new Chopin just dropped
Love it.
The descending passage on diminished, ferocius, sevenths is basically the entire pattern on op 25 no 11, which is also in A Minor. It is at least something where Chopin intervened. It could be a improvisation, an exercise for a student, a sketch he considered not good enough... but you can hear Chopin on this waltz
Definitely, it could be either an exercise for a student, or undeveloped abandoned idea for 3/4 piece. Could be a waltz, prelude, mazurka (?? - not sure here) or an “ingredient” for a ballad. It could be just the first page of a longer composition. We may never know (given if it indeed is Chopin). I can point to several questionable passages in this short piece, some details that aren’t 100 percent Chopin though…But once again : it may be Chopin, but unrefined, not polished.
I was thinking that if someone wrote this in his style, then that guy is worth listening to cos this is almost impossible to deny that it is Chopin's writing.
And I can't explain why.
I think what clinches it is the inevitanility of that c major breakthrough turning on a dime, back into a minor with elegance and conviction: he makes it feel satisfying(!) to be back in the land of tears after the the clouds quickly hide the sun. Man, that's why I stayed away from Chopin most of my life- couldn't handle the tragedy and gloom. Now I can. I've grown up!
The creativity suggests Chopin to me., but it's obviously written by his hand. I have a facsimile of one of his Nocturnes, which looks the same.
@@JoeLinux2000I think, it's a fake. Just a few "chopinesque" Phrases in a row. The bottom A for so long doesn't make musical sense and Chopin would never had written fff in such a short fragment. It's a mediocre fake for RUclipsrs...
@@paulmeisel339 Go right ahead spoiling your own enjoyment and that of others with pseudo-clever arguments! I once said in a different context that intelligence carried beyond a certain point of no return becomes uninteresting!
@@fredrickroll06 Where are your arguments?
It's my opinion after have been playing most of Chopin's works. It's not at all about cleverness, it's about my musical experience, taste and knowledge.
WHAT A FIND !!!! The motifs throughout... completely match his style.
I just about spit out my coffee when I saw the title of this video! Chopin is the peak of the pyramid of my favorite composers, and perhaps the one composer whose music I could not imagine my life without. Thank you for sharing this miniature wonder!
I lay down, listen to Chopin and scratch myself. No wonder I like this channel. I can relate to Loki.
The development of one simple chromatic fall. Chopin is able to make the most pained screams elegant and the tamest transitions barbaric in their own right, a very personal style. And I love it!
I just wanted to say I've very much enjoyed your videos and consider it a privilege that you are sharing your music education with us music lovers.
@@fiandrhi thank you!
Amazing video. I'm very satisfied in the way you performed the waltz, I agree with your performance. I Indeed think this was composed by Chopin even if at the beginning I was skeptical. I finished the whole waltz, I mean I composed the rest to finish it and performed it on my channel, I also wrote an article analyzing it, but I will make a compositional and harmonic video in the future too cause this is a very fascinating piece!
Chopin dropped a single.....such a brilliant statement 😂! I love Your channel
Great analysis, which shows how carefully and expertly this piece is constructed, despite its brevity. I'm 100% sure this is authentic Chopin: that "searching" phrase at the beginning, that outburst that prolongs the "search" by delaying the resolution but eventually brings it home, the fragments of chromatic scale that recall each other... As others have already pointed out, I think it is stylistically more akin to a mazurka than to a waltz.
I thoroughly enjoyed this--thank you very much for sharing your thoughts and comments on this recently discovered tiny but delectable bit of Chopin! Interesting that the waltz is in A minor since we know--or at least I recall reading as much--that Chopin's own favorite of his Waltzes was the melancholy one in A minor.
I have nothing to add to your analysis, you put this beautifully, Professor, thank you! (Ah, I'll say, the waltz is hauntingly beautiful, I can't get enough of it, so there). I wonder what would've been of it had Chopin written a couple of additional episodes to go with the main theme; in the end, I just hope it becomes the runaway hit of 2024, 200 years late for the composer but never too late for us music lovers.
Another thing, I'm betting this is the first page of a longer piece that was completed but the other pages are still missing. And your analysis is wonderful. Thank you.
First up: great performance. Splendid commentary and highlighting the contrast with the recent (classical tropes) early Mozart and also AI versus human genius. Thanks!
THANK YOU!! Had gone to other sites to listen to the music but they wanted to talk over the music...you are the man "Music Professor"...!!!
Newly discovered Mozart, and now Chopin! What's next for 2024, newly discovered Bach?
My personal dream would be for someone to miraculously discover the completed Latin Requiem by Max Reger.
He died too early to complete this monster of a work.
@@olly8453 9 new Beethoven symphonies
Fingers crossed
Next is a Mahler flute sonata
I've got my fingers crossed for the rediscovery of Beethoven's sonata for Banjo and Swanee Whistle
Great analyse, thank you!
I lack your expert knowledge, but l know Chopin's music extremely well by heart, being a lover for over 30 years. I heard his voice in this piece instantly. If this should prove a forgery, the impostor must be equally amazing, and I want to know him/her.
The introduction reminded me immediately of Chopin's Prelude op.28/14, the whole thing has a sort of slightly demonic, ominous atmosphere (like waltzing with the devil). And yet so classy. I don't know any other composer of Chopin's era who could create such marvellous, ambivalent, even disturbing moods with such grace and elegance. (Maybe some would point out Wagner, but I disagree, Wagner was daring and very expressive in his own right, but I wouldn't describe his music as elegant or graceful!)
"like waltzing with the devil. And yet so classy" - Yes!
Thank you, I really appreciate your thoughtful analysis, definitely Chopin!
This is my new favorite channel. Thank you for dedicating your life to music. It’s dudes like you that keep my creativity and passion alive in its darkest places
Thank you!
Funny but my first thoughts reminded me of the scherzo of piano sonata no2 in b flat minor. Although it is mazurka like in some respects it doesn't have that accented 2nd beat.
A great find and a great description. I fell in love with Chopin from around 10 years old thanks to my fathers love of music.
Best video I’ve seen in weeks. Potential new Chopin + brill analysis by a clearly educated pianist who I’ve never heard of before. Excellent and endearing presentation 🙌
Thank you. Feel free to check out other videos on this channel: www.youtube.com/@themusicprofessor/videos
Magnificent video, Matthew, and what a wonderful and beguiling piece!
Thank you Peter!
Thanks for all this, really enjoyed the analysis!
This is an exciting find! More Chopin please!!
This work feels like a cousin to the C major Mazurka op. 7 no. 5 (well, it’s also in its relative major!). A very compelling video, Matthew!
Yes Utsyo - it’s structurally related certainly (though op. 7 no. 5 is even more concise and more ostentatiously folky!) And there is also the wonderful late ‘infinite’ mazurka in F minor and a couple of other ‘infinite’ mazurkas which resemble it in form and character.
@@matthewking1873Do you mean the very painful mazurka in F minor op. 68 n. 4 posthumously, the last composition written by Chopin?
Thank you once again, Professor!
Rich and myriadic in such a minature. Well, work of a master. Looking forward to playing it! Wonderfully presented Matthew!
Thank you Simon.
Besides the piece, your channel, Sir, is pure gold as well. Discussing this piece in such an eloquent way is simply a joy.
The hidden melodies, the melodic easter eggs, are with no doubt one of Chopin's signature. Wonderful analysis. Thank you very much. 🙏 🎼 🎹
@@DenizInanComposer Thank you!
sounds more satisfying than the other A minor waltz fr. I love the intro.
Thank you for sharing this, I just heard about this a few days ago. It certainly sounds like his music. No other composure wrote for the piano like him..
I am so pleased that you say that it is precisely the unexpected elements that makes this so convincingly Chopin. That is exactly how it seems to me. I have been surprised to find supposed experts claim that they make them question its authenticity, An excellent and revealing analysis as always.
Many classical composers dropping new hits nowadays. I love to see it.
Thanks for presenting this new find with some wonderful insights!
Fred
Great video. I especially appreciate that you just opened with your performance of the piece straight away. :)
What a friggin legend dropping new music after 200 years!!
Saw the news clip of this with Lang Lang debuting it, this is just so cool! In fact, I might give it a go at playing it myself. I reckon the number of people who have played this beautiful gem so far is less than 10,000, maybe even less than 1,000. When else can you say that about Chopin?
It's not Chopin. It's a fake, clickbait and playbait. Some "chopinesque" Phrases thrown on the page, but the bottom A for so long makes no sense. Same with the fff in such a short fragment. And it sounds just a little cheap too.
@@paulmeisel339 no, his posthumous waltzes are all kinda boring, they’re quick gifts for friends, he actually told his sister to burn them but luckily she disobeyed him.
You're right - there's something exciting about that! You can find it on IMSLP (imslp.org/wiki/Waltz_in_A_minor_(Chopin,_Fr%C3%A9d%C3%A9ric)
A new Mozart piece just got found. Now a new Chopin piece? Wow, this would be a great year for another Betthoven Symphony
I was thinking Tuba Concerto by Robert Schumann would be epic.(jk).
@@darrinsiberia That's weird i'm sure I saw something like that in my loft the other day
I agree this sounds like an instant classic! (no pun intended). Will this start conspiract theories about Chopin being alive and well living in Agentina? :P
great analysis - spot on!
Wonderful analysis, simple and yet insightful.
Thanks for the analysis. I wonder how it was discovered. Chopin will always be my number one!
I love your analysis on that E”! You are amazing and your videos are extremely educational!🙏🙏❤❤
Thank you so much!
Chopin is by far the most difficult to imitate. All the tryers either have emotion but they lose the texture, either the texture but not the facture.... I'm quite convinced that some of the official (but posthume) waltz are actually not from Chopin (like the 17 th) but this one definitely sounds like Chopin ! (it's a bit short so maybe it was just a draft, but I'm quite sure this one is from Chopin, if I'm wrong it is even better : that meen that there is some alive Chopin in nature hahahah but I doubt) Thank you for this I'm so moved by this
Really good piece, love the Organ point, keep up Chopin!
wow !
great analysis !
Just discovered you a few weeks ago.. Love your teaching!
Considering that I spent the time before listening to your video just listening to the Chopin Waltz several times on repeat, I cannot but agree that this piece is among his ad infinitum works. It is so inspiring to see a new Chopin piece given the appreciation and analysis it really deserves. As a composer, I always take such great inspiration from these videos. Best of wishes, dear friend!
Thank you!
Chopin is capable of true novelty. Totally unexpected and totally breathtaking.
The bass is a very typical unfolding of a minor key, i, III V i , with a passing tone iv between III and V. This is the standard structure, in miniature, that many minor key symphonic movements are based on.. Theme 1 in the i, theme 2 in III development passing from III to V in iv, finally arriving at V before the final recap in i. it has some very interesting added chromatic color, but the basic structure is pretty standard minor key form.
Wonderful Chopin. Clearly authentic - but I can’t help feeling it’s incomplete. Somewhere, in some dusty library, the whole thing awaits in all its published glory.
There are quite a few published Chopin miniatures of this size.
I have been listening to Chopin for 60 years and that waltz is DEFINITELY Chopin's work.
I agree with your analysis. When I heard it I immediately thought "obviously Chopin; couldn't be anything else." First of all there are some things in it that are too GOOD to be anyone faking it. And the intro with the fortissimo descending passage is hardly characteristic, but for that very reason something that a forger would never do, especially at the beginning of a piece. That said, I applaud people who are trying to complete it with another section. It really cries out for it.
Chopin should drop new music more often! /s
Great analysis!
0:10 Loki: Listening
0:19 Loki: Ah, that's definitely Chopin, I can relax
Chopin reveals something of the mysterious longing of the human soul.
Now all that’s missing is the discovery of some unknown lost menuetto by Ravel!
You are my new hero. All the little subtleties I thought indicated this is authentic you point out here. In New York there is much talk that it is a forgery.
They don't always get things right in NYC!
Something interesting I noticed at 14:04 is if you look at the RH the chromatic descent is inverted (E-F-F#-G), which I guess is consistent with this part being the only major-key part of the piece.
Great interpretation!
"Chopin just dropped a single". Legend.
I knew it was Chopin as soon as I heard it. This is so magical to me, it's as if we're hearing something Chopin wrote from beyond the grave. Him dying at 39 is the greatest tragedy in all of music.
EH? Ever heard (of) Schubert?
Ever heard of Mozart
Ever heard of Elfman?
Bach has been totally silent after this new single. Can't wait for what he will come up this year.
Thats incredible!
Thanks so much for breaking it down like that it really helps us mere mortals. I felt guilty when the new one dropped as I haven't listened to all the existing ones yet 😅 but I certainly will now.
Thanks. I found that a very comprehensive evaluation. Appreciate it, and maybe I can try to play it!
Nicely done!
There is a "con fuoco"-ness about it that is pure Chopin.
Thanks so much for this! Quite an extraordinary little piece! Very worthwhile discovery. When it comes to Mozart, I agree about the little serenade...but it is worth listening to, I think...especially the second movement and the catchy little finale. Of Mozart's early stuff, there are some pretty precocious works in my opinion: especially vocal efforts like the opera Mitridate, and the oratorio La Betulia liberata, with gripping minor key choruses and the lead given, unusually, to a contralto! I guess the composer's dramatic gift may have developed before his full compositional maturity? Supposedly he liked Betulia so much that it was performed again with some newly composed choruses (now lost!) in Vienna in 1784. Now THOSE I would like to see turn up in somebody's library!
Yes - perhaps I was a little bit harsh about the Mozart. I must give it another listen.
Well done.
Still kicking ass from beyond the endless night !
sounds pretty authenic
To me it does sound authentic, thanks for your analysis
Oh this is so loopable! This melodramatic theme goes round and round in my head like a carousel. Your interpretation helps though! So thank you :)! …maybe that is the reason Chopin never made it public😉.
Wow so beautiful.
This makes me so happy. I would love it if his ideas had been worked out further but what's there is an instant top work of his for me.
Could one work a little ornamentation and emphasis into it and maybe play it twice or three times, to see how it works as an extended piece in repeated succession? Not sure what tools are available for interpretation that don't change it too much. I might try to play your rendition in a loop and see if any parts compound for me.
Thank you so much for covering this :)
My personal view is that it may be an ‘infinity mazurka’ - he published some of these: you can circle round as many times as you like.
@@matthewking1873 There are elements that feel introductory to me that I might not have for the first repetition, maybe introduce it for the final as a sort of return... I think I'll experiment a bit. The melancholy feels especially strong in this to me, can't help but be touched by it
With so much interest in it, I think certain people may develop it, and there will end up being many different versions. It could even become an element of the International Chopin competition to comp0lete it or improvise on it.
Indeed. Many of his waltzes seem a little bit superficial to me. Nice but nothing special. This one grips you by the throat right away and it makes you wish there was more of it.
This piece has kind of a jazzy quality about it. I can almost hear the brushed snare and cymbals in the background.
That's a first even though I do consider Chopin to be a jazz pianist.
Chopin invented Jazz. Listen to his mazurka in a minor Op 17. Absolutely Jazz.
Releasing an A minor waltz after Kendrick's 'Not Like Us', crazy reference, lil Chopin is clever as hell
I love your analysis on that E”! You are amazing and your videos are extremely educational!🙏🙏❤❤
Where can we get a copy of this score?
It’s on IMSLP
GREAT Video / analysis !!! Love your channel ... Only discovered / subbed a few weeks ago .
As always a mistery why an artist has an idea and then decides to not further elaborate. This really screams for a continuation. It's just the first phrase. So unmistakingly Chopin that you would want to go back in time, take the man by the shoulders and shake him and scream: DO MORE! Especially because as opposed to that small Mozart Serenade, its a piece he sketched when he as fully matured as a composer, whereas the Mozart is just... youthful Mozart and therefore nothing special. Just like you said.
As with Schubert, when he abandoned an idea and left us with another of his fragments.
Some creative artists make the most of a trickle of ideas. Others have far more ideas than they can ever develop. I've read that Chopin was an improviser-composer.
I think it's lovely and very chopinesque. Probably, a fragment or sketch that could have been developed into a much larger piece, but also works as it is.
If it turns out to be a faux discovery, i it is well done. I wonder how this piece ended up in a library-museum in NY
It's more real than a ballot cast for Joe Biden.
First time I heard they had discovered a new piece I was sceptical, first time I heard it and there was no doubt it was his work.
Its beautiful.
The professor's rendition is so much better than Lang Lang it's not even funny.
Thank you!
I love the piece for sure.
The only real way to break AI's limitations is to tell it to do something it's never done before. If you give it a prompt, as they say, that is completely out of left field- some combination of extremely contrasting elements- the end result will be something actually somewhat original. It's actually kind of remarkable how seamlessly it can blend things, at least when making images or writing.
This is coming from somebody who experiments a lot with AI, if only to see what it does.
Well… as a pianist/composer myself I played tons of Chopin in my life - enough to “filter out” certain ways of Chopin’s thinking process, certain hand and fingers positions etc. This short “waltz” if this is indeed authentic Chopin’s manuscript, shows few things that show certain inconsistencies when it comes down to his stylistics as a composer/improviser.
This could have been either an attempt for a full composition that never got continued (eventually abandoned and forgotten by the composer) or a short gift scribbled quickly without refining so characteristic to Chopin. There’s another possibility : the following pages have either been lost or still wait to be discovered somewhere…
After playing through the sheet music from this video (stopping the screen) looking throughout the 1-page manuscript photo online, I am almost positive it is Chopin, but either not-refined (Chopin was extremely detailed with virtually everything he has ever written) or refinement and development (especially the left hand) happens in continuation.
Hopefully we’ll find it one day 😊
Loki looks listlessly into the distance, contemplating his own metaphysical angst to the poetic tones of Chopin....
I often wonder what is on a dog's mind; however I don't believe they are complex thinkers.
@@JoeLinux2000 Perhaps he's dreaming of a good treat!
I think that's more likely!😂 @@jaydenfung1
He was looking at his favourite person in the world (my wife, behind the camera - who also had a treat!)
I initially thought the dog was fake.
Loki absolutely mesmerised, obviously he likes Chopin ❤️ .
Dogs are not particularly interested in piano music in the same way cats are.
There are two oddities here which are uncharacteristic of Chopin. In the manuscript a basic rhythmic error shows up three times, where triplet 8th notes are written as triplet 16ths. It’s impossible to imagine Chopin capable of this, considering the ubiquity of this pattern throughout his waltzes and mazurkas. Also throughout these collections of dances one finds not a single fff marking. Stylistically the waltz’s individual passages seem sufficiently Chopinesque to believe it may be authentic, but the excessive drama and dissonance so early on and in such a miniature seem to protest too much.
But the manuscript looks far too genuine to be a forgery.
My guess is he wrote it on request from a student willing to pay him a goodly fee for a waltz that must be short and not difficult but full as possible of drama and temperament. (He may well have taught it as he included fingerings). He may have converted the 8ths to 16ths to prevent the student from dragging the tempo at these spots.
Yes - also the fff is uncharacteristic. It’s possible these oddities were added by another hand…
Lovely! Can we find the piece as a pdf online somewhere?
imslp.org/wiki/Waltz_in_A_minor_(Chopin,_Fr%C3%A9d%C3%A9ric)
Thank you for this video in particular and your other wonderful videos in general. May I ask where to obtain the music score from?
You can find it on IMSLP
Thank you for that analysis! And some nice playing...