You are correct in saying that this is a design flaw. In fact, it is a MAJOR design flaw. A part like this should last for many years, and there is absolutely no excuse for producing and selling a motor with this problem. Either the bearing should be made of a much more durable material, or it should be protected from contaminants by a seal. Of course, the seal itself would also need to be durable. This problem appears to be effecting a lot of customers, and could (should) have been avoided by spending a buck or two on a better design. My first instinct is to blame the engineers, but the fault may lie elsewhere. It's entirely possible that a better bearing was specified by the designers, but a cheaper part was substituted by the "bean counters."
Well done forensic analysis. There are so many videos of guys replacing those pathetic shaded pole recirc pumps I'm amazed there isn't a class action lawsuit. Wouldn't be surprised if there were 10s of thousands (if not 100s of thousands) of those installed. You couldn't give me one of those dishwashers.
Excellent. I took the motor apart, the bearings on both ends were worn to oval shape for my 5 years old Whirlpools dishwasher, acutally it is only 4 years old because the dishes was not cleaned, not after 2 to 3 wash cycles since the 4th years. The appliance is functional after I bought replacement because I took the dishwasher out examine every part for 3 weeks, not till I saw this video. Will put ball bearing on the broken motor as spare. The manufacturer should have specified a ball bearing motor in the design.
I have a Bauknecht where the motor have the same issue. The motor is of same type but another name. Your detailed video helped me to locate the problem - thanks.
can you tell me if there is a way to test the motor with my multimeter? Should there be continuity? Should there be a resistance? Thanks in advance. I didn't realize there was more to this motor with all the electronics you showed. My motor is slightly different but I'm sure it has that board now that it could be broke. I have it removed and would like to run the dishwasher to see if the plug gets power. It's completely unhooked from the plumbing though. Any reason you could think of why I couldn't try to run a cycle without the water supply hooked up? Thanks in advacne.
This pump is used on many models of dishwasher from several brands (probably all made in the same factory). You can find a video where a guy replaced the lower bushing with an open plastic ball bearing. That lasted a year more until the top bushing completely failed. He then bought a new pump and installed sealed ball bearings before installing it. He hasn’t posted an update in some time. I suspect the seals will eventually let water in the bearings which won’t be good for them. It’s a cheap upgrade if they hold up though, and could be used to repair an old pump.
Lets clear up some incorrection assumptions and conclusions. The oblong wear pattern in the bushings is caused by the choice to use a two pole stator, which causes the rotor to consistently exert force against the bushings in the same elliptical pattern. A three pole stator would solve this problem by balancing the forces evenly thus causing circular wear pattern in the bushings. The rotor becomes unable to start spinning because of the elliptical wear allowing it to tilt inside the housing, coupled with the inability to rotate freely once tilted. If the bushings were simply worn evenly in a circular wear pattern, this motor should have no problem spinning up that rotor even when there is tilt of the rotor because it would be allowed to continue rotation without impediment from the top or bottom bushing. Secondly, the o-ring on the top bushing serves only to center the bushing in the cavity. This rotor (and the bushings) are designed to run fully submerged in water. Thus any solution involving ball bearings needs to be robust to full submersion (PVDF housings with glass or 316 stainless balls).
My 2008 Frigidaire DW just now (April '24) needed its very first repair. An under 10 dollar recirc pump start capacitor. I keep my reliable old appliances & do all my own repairs.
I too am encountering this pump failure on our whirlpool washer. 2 years old, new pump on order from Amazon. Disappointed in Whirlpool, no excuse for this type of failure...
My problem is not with the bushing but, the impeller. This is the second (and final) time it has unthreaded itself from the motor shaft. I've jbweled it onto the threads as there was no way to drill a hole between the impeller blades to secure it. If for some reason the bushing (or impeller) fail now I'll 3d print the entire assembly and press the existing magnet onto it. It'll cost just a fraction of the $80-100+dollars a replacement would.
Help, My dishwasher whirlpool goldseries is not washing, even though the electronic panel sends out 120v to the recirculating pump the dishwasher doesn't wash. So how do I determine if the control panel Is faulty or if my recirculating pump faulty. The diswasher fills, drains but no wash. I check the wires: OK, I check the drain ok, it's between the control board and the pump. How do I determine. Than, you sir.tf
Check and see if the pump motor hums when it is signaled on, if it does hum but doesn't do anything then more than likely the bearings are bad or the impeller is jammed. But if you said the control board is sending out 120v to the pump and its not doing anything them more than likely the pump motor is dead. one way to test it is to do a quick rig up like I did in the video and see if it works, of course be careful when doing something like this as there is a shock hazard involved. You could also take the pump off the washer and open it up via like i showed in the video as its twist locked together and you can try to clean it out then put it back together and see if it works then but if still no luck then at that point I would just go ahead and replace the pump.
Thank you. I wonder if someone watching this video, with a machine shop, could make these bearings and a lot of money on the side. I sure would buy one.
Only took 15 months to wear out the rubber bushing. Most ppl will toss this dishwasher in the landfill rather than pay $400+ to repairman. (250 motor 150 labor) What a piece of crap. They know it'll last just long enough to get out of warranty. I used to like Whirlpool.
I replaced that cheesy bushing-we can hardly call it a 'bearing!-with an actual bearing. I did have to make a sleeve out of copper tubing to slide over the shaft but I got another 2 years out of this latest piece of crap that capitalism has presented to us. And, yes, we did spend $700 on this POS from Home Depot. The replacement motor/pumps are now on eBay for $80 including shipping.
You are correct in saying that this is a design flaw. In fact, it is a MAJOR design flaw. A part like this should last for many years, and there is absolutely no excuse for producing and selling a motor with this problem.
Either the bearing should be made of a much more durable material, or it should be protected from contaminants by a seal. Of course, the seal itself would also need to be durable. This problem appears to be effecting a lot of customers, and could (should) have been avoided by spending a buck or two on a better design.
My first instinct is to blame the engineers, but the fault may lie elsewhere. It's entirely possible that a better bearing was specified by the designers, but a cheaper part was substituted by the "bean counters."
Well done forensic analysis. There are so many videos of guys replacing those pathetic shaded pole recirc pumps I'm amazed there isn't a class action lawsuit. Wouldn't be surprised if there were 10s of thousands (if not 100s of thousands) of those installed. You couldn't give me one of those dishwashers.
Excellent. I took the motor apart, the bearings on both ends were worn to oval shape for my 5 years old Whirlpools dishwasher, acutally it is only 4 years old because the dishes was not cleaned, not after 2 to 3 wash cycles since the 4th years. The appliance is functional after I bought replacement because I took the dishwasher out examine every part for 3 weeks, not till I saw this video. Will put ball bearing on the broken motor as spare. The manufacturer should have specified a ball bearing motor in the design.
This is a good video. There is another guy on youtube that has found the solution using bearings. Lifetime fix.
I have a Bauknecht where the motor have the same issue. The motor is of same type but another name.
Your detailed video helped me to locate the problem - thanks.
thank you for explaining and all the details...and for the great visual along with the explanations.
can you tell me if there is a way to test the motor with my multimeter? Should there be continuity? Should there be a resistance? Thanks in advance. I didn't realize there was more to this motor with all the electronics you showed. My motor is slightly different but I'm sure it has that board now that it could be broke. I have it removed and would like to run the dishwasher to see if the plug gets power. It's completely unhooked from the plumbing though. Any reason you could think of why I couldn't try to run a cycle without the water supply hooked up? Thanks in advacne.
This pump is used on many models of dishwasher from several brands (probably all made in the same factory). You can find a video where a guy replaced the lower bushing with an open plastic ball bearing. That lasted a year more until the top bushing completely failed. He then bought a new pump and installed sealed ball bearings before installing it. He hasn’t posted an update in some time. I suspect the seals will eventually let water in the bearings which won’t be good for them. It’s a cheap upgrade if they hold up though, and could be used to repair an old pump.
Lets clear up some incorrection assumptions and conclusions. The oblong wear pattern in the bushings is caused by the choice to use a two pole stator, which causes the rotor to consistently exert force against the bushings in the same elliptical pattern. A three pole stator would solve this problem by balancing the forces evenly thus causing circular wear pattern in the bushings. The rotor becomes unable to start spinning because of the elliptical wear allowing it to tilt inside the housing, coupled with the inability to rotate freely once tilted. If the bushings were simply worn evenly in a circular wear pattern, this motor should have no problem spinning up that rotor even when there is tilt of the rotor because it would be allowed to continue rotation without impediment from the top or bottom bushing. Secondly, the o-ring on the top bushing serves only to center the bushing in the cavity. This rotor (and the bushings) are designed to run fully submerged in water. Thus any solution involving ball bearings needs to be robust to full submersion (PVDF housings with glass or 316 stainless balls).
My 2008 Frigidaire DW just now (April '24) needed its very first repair. An under 10 dollar recirc pump start capacitor. I keep my reliable old appliances & do all my own repairs.
I wonder if there is somewhere you could buy just the bushing and bearing for the circulation pump?
I too am encountering this pump failure on our whirlpool washer. 2 years old, new pump on order from Amazon. Disappointed in Whirlpool, no excuse for this type of failure...
My problem is not with the bushing but, the impeller. This is the second (and final) time it has unthreaded itself from the motor shaft. I've jbweled it onto the threads as there was no way to drill a hole between the impeller blades to secure it. If for some reason the bushing (or impeller) fail now I'll 3d print the entire assembly and press the existing magnet onto it. It'll cost just a fraction of the $80-100+dollars a replacement would.
Is there impellar part selling separately?
Help, My dishwasher whirlpool goldseries is not washing, even though the electronic panel sends out 120v to the recirculating pump the dishwasher doesn't wash. So how do I determine if the control panel Is faulty or if my recirculating pump faulty. The diswasher fills, drains but no wash. I check the wires: OK, I check the drain ok, it's between the control board and the pump. How do I determine. Than, you sir.tf
Check and see if the pump motor hums when it is signaled on, if it does hum but doesn't do anything then more than likely the bearings are bad or the impeller is jammed. But if you said the control board is sending out 120v to the pump and its not doing anything them more than likely the pump motor is dead. one way to test it is to do a quick rig up like I did in the video and see if it works, of course be careful when doing something like this as there is a shock hazard involved. You could also take the pump off the washer and open it up via like i showed in the video as its twist locked together and you can try to clean it out then put it back together and see if it works then but if still no luck then at that point I would just go ahead and replace the pump.
Thank you. I wonder if someone watching this video, with a machine shop, could make these bearings and a lot of money on the side. I sure would buy one.
Only took 15 months to wear out the rubber bushing. Most ppl will toss this dishwasher in the landfill rather than pay $400+ to repairman. (250 motor 150 labor) What a piece of crap. They know it'll last just long enough to get out of warranty. I used to like Whirlpool.
My dishwasher is making a grinding loud sound but works fine, do u think it’s the motor?
Yes but it might just be the drain pump. if its working normal then you should be fine.
Permanent magnet motor, not shaded pole. Although mine lasted 9 years.
that is NOT a shaded pole motor, its a synchronus motor and the electronics on it help with starting
permanent magnet motor. electronics control speed
is this a circulation motor
Yes
I replaced that cheesy bushing-we can hardly call it a 'bearing!-with an actual bearing. I did have to make a sleeve out of copper tubing to slide over the shaft but I got another 2 years out of this latest piece of crap that capitalism has presented to us. And, yes, we did spend $700 on this POS from Home Depot. The replacement motor/pumps are now on eBay for $80 including shipping.