Better. It's a Marine with a turret/bunker upgrade. Need a gun? Here, carry these!! Need anti-air rockets? Here, have some! Need a bunker to hide in? Here, wear one!!
Seriously, if I played terran I would be doing everything in my power to find a way NOT to build turrets vs zerg, they're such an incredible drain for so little benefit.
@@soldier22881 A big economy based on the hopes and dreams that your zerg opponent cant micro mutas, like me. Above my level? No idea. No clue how Terran or Protoss is supposed to manage Zerg right now. At the very least i think we'll eventually see the dead space above the nat removed so T and P can place cannons and turrets and still have them actually hit something.
What if I just built turrets that could walk and shoot ground instead? Turrets also cost more than 75 because they cost the lost mining time while the scv builds. Pbly closer to 100.
Even if those strats are sub-optimal if your opponent knows how to counter them, its still hilarious to see them being tried and win at high S rank. I really enjoyed those ForGG games. Thanks for casting!
People spend thousands of minerals just making/remaking turrets. Lost mining time, lost scvs. Definitely gives Arty chills lol. Vults can place mines, goliaths keep out overlord vision and map control. Goliaths and vults are insane in theory plus you can spare min/gas for more facs early.
This seems like the most likely answer. Even though the gas had to be mined at a higher rate the ability of the goliaths to fend off that first weakened attack (the loss in productivity from the vulture attack guaranteed this) meant that the gain in minerals going to terran could never be met even if they eco'd and now they had to commit everything to an attack even though they knew their muta count was going to be low. The goliaths just took the space . They cancelled that third expo and were so offensively threatening to the zerg base that they essentially got a contain on the muta activity. Wild shit.
@@HercSpeed I've always wondered how locked down T was versus Z in modern meta early game that nobody ever tried this. like 85% of the Z opens are the same. I do notice Flash and Speed doing something similar sometimes, but they can't help themselves to the ebay and/or valk crutch ( = less facs) and blow the entire commit of pure gols (+1 gols and range). Turrets have become totally worthless in the modern 24 turnrate muta micro and I'm really surprised this is the only replay I've seen actually commit 100% to the idea. Zerg definitely can't stop this open on most maps if we base it on the current meta.
One marine and no bunker means this build is pretty vulnerable to early aggression; Zerglings could have delayed the natural. Successful harassment with vultures also gave terran an economy lead, and terran still only barely holds. Build could be faster with optimization, to make the vulnerable window smaller. Hard to say if truely viable or just lucky.
@@hemingwaybromfield3722 I think this is a good thing to have in a series of games just to keep Z honest. This one and a more optimized, less vulnerable version of this
why is anyone surprised to see this development, everyone wants mutas dead, and turrets have been proven to be nigh worthless (13 HITS. 13 HITS FROM A MISSILE TURRET). goliaths are missile turrets that kill mutas faster, can be upgraded, can put on pressure, don't require an ebay, don't waste scv mining time, can defend themselves, can stack up massively, can reposition constantly, what's there not to like
@@redfiendif turrets had normal instead of explosive damage, or change the size of mutas from small to at least medium (if my math is right the damage would scale to 10/15/20 s/m/L) turrets would be a more viable defense. As it is, terran has limited options by the time mutas drop by for a cordial visit
Apart from size/explosive damage, the reason we don’t see goliaths used more extensively is *probably* because of optimization. Goliaths aren’t terribly expensive, but they aren’t cheap, either. Sitting at 100/50 IIRC they are right in between marines/vultures and siege tanks. The dichotomy that putting the scvs to mine or do other tasks is pitted against the fact that while you are building goliaths, you aren’t building siege tanks or vultures. I have always believed goliath’s greatest asset is their range. Their power while fully upgraded is a thing of awe, but for muta defense you might only see +1. Despite the protection mutas enjoy from the small category, if you are able to get the range upgrade fast enough, it MAY make up for the damage, if you are able to hit critical mass. I have seen a few handful of games where the mutas dive in not knowing there is a whole squad of goliaths waiting for them, and they turn 180 real quick after the first volley or 2.
Goliaths have longer range than missile turrets. And because you can control them, you can focus fire all of your Goliaths to target a single Muta, taking it out quickly. And because Goliaths are mobile, you can move them around your base. So instead of having 2-3 missile turrets slowly taking down the Mutas, you have 5-6 Goliaths roaming around your base and focus firing the Mutas. And unlike missile turrets, pullback micro doesn't work on Goliaths, because of focus firing. So the Zerg will always lose at least a couple Mutas in every engagement.
Added to this the goliaths can use pullback micro themselves Looking at all of this I'm starting to suspect turrets are mainly just a psychological defense. I mean: it's painful to see your mutas targeted by them but in reality you can just ignore them. Similarly: it just feels nice to have them but do they REALLY protect against anything other than drops? They are like a cardboard door to psychologically close your house with
This feels like the time that my parents left out the Nintendo they were going to get us for Christmas and hadn’t wrapped it and we found it and hooked it up.
The thing is, we've seen both Flash and Sharp try out this style, tho probably not this particular build. T-800 was not very smart with this mutas. He thought he could just straight up fight the golaiths, whereas better Zergs don't do that, and just stick to the heavy harassment of the mineral line as usual. When the goliaths get there to defend, you run away your mutas and just start harassing the other mineral line instead. The terran has to keep their goliaths together in a clump to more effectively defend, which slows them down. T-800 was continually losing mutas taking dumb engagements, which forced him to spend income replacing them, when he should have been building a ground army to prepare for the inevitable push. At 7:06, T-800 was wasting his time attacking the mineral line with three mutas and killed literally zero SCVs. He could have had 6 mutas there and been doing pretty good damage if he hadn't tried to fight the goliaths earlier.
Ah yes, the build that 12 year old me used 20 years ago. Build only the tier 1.5 unit that shoots both air and ground because anything else is too complicated for my smooth brain. Works for all 3 races. Terran->Goliath. Protoss->Dragoon. Zerg->Hydralisk.
I love that Artosis thought this build couldn't possibly work, then ForGG just walks over the zerg defenses with ease. But now we need a fourth ForGG vs Zerg to see if any of them can optimally counter these unusual strategies.
I'm really appreciating ForGG's play. It goes to show that there is a lot of scope in terms of playstyle, despite the game's age. I'll look forward to seeing more from this mad scientist!
'I'm going to keep watching ForGG TvZ games until I get a normal one so I can get a feel for how he 'normally' plays the matchup' Proceeds to go insane build after insane build as Artosis slowly realizes that this IS how he normally plays the matchup lmao.
I've never seen goliaths perform so well against mutas. Did ForGG make an ebay the entire game? It felt like a personal challenge to not make any turrets, even after the mutas were revealed.
Honestly, this feels like a throwback to og mech builds vs zerg. I hope the old boys coming back into the scene continue to focus on macro builds like this. Cute muta micro isn’t gonna stop 2 control groups of upgrades goliaths from a-moving into your natural
Along with the obvious limitations of turrets against mutas, one of the bigger ones that isn't thought of or talked about much is the fact that you can't focus fire with them, and that muta stacking hard counters that. Turrets and goliaths each have their own pros and cons but being able to focus fire with the goliaths might make all the difference.
After seeing Flash comeback, didnt expected some old but Gold players also make at least a revisit to the game, i feel terran is in the mid of another breakrtrought, with the hardworker the genious and the madlad.
Beside the vults, to counter and early ling-muta attack he could also make a semy wall in the natural and eventually send scv plus block the ramp with scv if needed to avoid lings in main. I wonder if you can go pure liath like that and I also wonder how this stands against lurks, liaths are very strong vs ultra lings but with no detection I wonder how it'd work out, maybe with some scouting terran can rush into eng turrets, I don't know. P.s. Actually hyra lurks rush may be extremely strong against this
The 3rd deny was critical to that win as he didnt have gas for hydras switxh while threatening muta dive. A1 for an aggressive mech build that can actually deal with muta harass though. Hat tip to ForGG
If he would have walked in with just that one sunken there is no way he would have had many hydra's before that gas operation was up and running. There were no drones, no extractor (or whatever you call the zerg version of a gas thingy). I think it was just good hygiene to kill it, at the expense of giving the zerg time to finish sunkens
fOrGG was my favorite player to watch back in the day exactly because of games like this. He would do some build that doesn't make sense and then suddenly he has way more units than he's supposed to at a certain timing and then steamrolls his opponent with them. So funny to watch. His macro was really something to behold.
i get the feeling he decided to do this after how successful the vulture attack was. I really HOPE that mass goliath was the plan all along though because that was so cool.
The thing Goliaths can give you over missile turrets is local superiority of numbers. They're not fast so it really relies on correctly assuming where you need them to be at any given time. Not economical on paper, but missile turrets don't deny that third base or bust through those sunkens at the end.
It would be nice to run some tests: Test 1: How fast do you kill a muta? Time one muta against one turret VS one muta against one goliath (of course when you scale it gets different and is there splash? But it would be good to get the basic math straight.) Test 2: How much does a turret cost including missed mining time by the SCV? Let one SCV mine during the building time of one turret to determine this
1:45 ok, well, 12/12 again, probably another factory, here we go! against a 12/11/10 3:25 simcity is interesting. crazy defensive, is this going to be just valkirie into bio? 4:59 christ! that's... a LOT of damage, he may be able to ride that advantage all the way to mass tank if he wants. or maybe just run him over with goliath 5:39 oh. no ebay. welp, somebody's gonna die today! 6:52 and the goliaths have held and zerg is getting +1 air attack against no turrets... this... does not look good! 7:33 even a mech upgrade... i mean, you just walk across now, right? against 26 drones? 10:10 yeah so this... looks like way too many goliaths. we just win now? wow! turretless 2 base 5 factory goliath push that ends the game at 11 minutes... crazy. thanks RT!
I am a complete starcraft noob and ive always wondered why goliaths werent the obvious choice over turrets. They are turrets... that can also hit ground units... that can also MOVE! To me they seem like terrans version of dragoons. Just give them proper support
Upgrades are what differentiate the most I'd argue. Especially if your attacks are doubled & they don't have armour upgrades. I want more Protoss upgrades... if you've read my comments previously.
finally a terran player that doesnt spam marines that get deleted quickly and actually uses goliaths. this terran player has a bright future ahead of them
4:26 Harras mineral line with 3 Vultures that score !!7"(seven)!! zerg drones, dropping the zerg worker count from 21 to 14 , mineral line getting the chills. 5:24 "Engineering Armoury" ftw? Continuing to watch the game.
I've been getting back into actually playing BW lately and I've mostly been playing Protoss, but am not having a great time and have been considering going Terran. Think I'm finally gonna do it after seeing this video, Mech vs Zerg is my shit.
that initial defend against muta/ling was very close. those last three goliaths coming out of those factories was the deciding factor in that fight no bunker, no seige tanks, no static defense of any kind. strangely enough both players had enough reserve resources to make a few units during the fight. that vultue attack did seem to make a difference in attack size, but was it THE difference? also, with how much the golaiths were mostly clumped toward the middle, the muta harrass on the natural could have been significantly more aggressive, with little punishment
This zerg looked like a diamond player in sc2... He literally sees the vultures for ages. Lings to the right, block choke with a drone... And then you don't lose 1/3 of your economy.
He nuked i believe 7 drones with that 3 vulture drive by. I am willing to bet that huge set back is what allowed him to get that highway robbery win (lol) with pure goliath madness. I was honestly scared for a bit when t800 got in his base and wiped out his defenses, but then more Goliaths spawned
ForGG is the Minstrel of pro players. At first you're befuddled at what you see, but then you realize they give you some of the most entertaining matches.
OOPS, ACCIDENTLY SCHEDULED THIS TO GO UP AT 12AM RATHER THAN 10AM.
2? casts today
We need an other cast tomorrow morning now D: D: D: D:
I still expect another Arty. Keep them coming.
Thanks for the early christmas present
Still expect another with my morning coffee arty! ❤
ForGG: guys guys guys, you wouldn't believe the greatest idea I had!
.
Artosis: what?
.
ForGG: turret with legs
🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬
But wait, there's more! RANGE!
@@hellokenWait again. There's more. Scales to lategame
But what if you could also upgrade its damage? :O
Better. It's a Marine with a turret/bunker upgrade. Need a gun? Here, carry these!! Need anti-air rockets? Here, have some! Need a bunker to hide in? Here, wear one!!
I think the Goliaths are perfect for Chirstmas. They kiss the enemies with their missile-toe.
I see what you did there. 🤩
Well done
Goliaths were not included in the 12 days of StarCraft song sadly
"YOUR MISTLE TOE IS NO MATCH FOR MY TOE MISSILE!"
Take your like and GET LOST.
It took 26 years to finally find the perfect build against Zerg: just Goliaths. We have that one unit that destroys zerglings and can shoot mutalisks.
Mass Hydras, backed by Queens, are a good counter.
@@ozar_midrashim yeah, but you need time to switch to them.
The little sound of a mutalisk going "sploof" is so satisfying to hear :)
ArtosisTV: INFINITE MISSILE TURRETS CAN'T KILL A MUTALISK!!!
ArtosisCasts: I can't believe he's skipping missile turrets, they're essential
Seriously, if I played terran I would be doing everything in my power to find a way NOT to build turrets vs zerg, they're such an incredible drain for so little benefit.
@@bubblegumtate3384 curious what do you build then?
@@soldier22881 Corsairs and templars, I'm an ape ook ook.
@@soldier22881 clearly Goliath
@@soldier22881 A big economy based on the hopes and dreams that your zerg opponent cant micro mutas, like me.
Above my level? No idea. No clue how Terran or Protoss is supposed to manage Zerg right now.
At the very least i think we'll eventually see the dead space above the nat removed so T and P can place cannons and turrets and still have them actually hit something.
"Goliath online!"
Fun Fact: That's Michael Dorn's voice.
@Thumper770 is it really?
Confirmed!
What if I just built turrets that could walk and shoot ground instead?
Turrets also cost more than 75 because they cost the lost mining time while the scv builds. Pbly closer to 100.
What’s insane is i still remember the last update when they reduced turrets from 100 to 75.
@@Larsgmanand they are still garbage
@@mitchmccracken3050 lmao yup. They should have reduced the mineral cost to 50 instead, maybe then we would see more use
@@LarsgmanComawn who wants to see that much turtle.
@@Broockle maybe that way tvz won’t be 90% muta harass lolol
I've always loved Goliath's and i want them to be more practical but i never seen it done well before.
This game was definitely worth the chills.
Artosis: This opening isnt well optimized
OG Pro player: Eco goes brbrbrbrbr and A-move 30 Gols to the Oppos natura
ForGG is quickly becoming one of my favourite players to watch
Artosis wants to hate lol but he cant
Woke up with chills. Thought I'm getting sick but it was just a new artosis cast
Even if those strats are sub-optimal if your opponent knows how to counter them, its still hilarious to see them being tried and win at high S rank. I really enjoyed those ForGG games. Thanks for casting!
People spend thousands of minerals just making/remaking turrets. Lost mining time, lost scvs. Definitely gives Arty chills lol. Vults can place mines, goliaths keep out overlord vision and map control. Goliaths and vults are insane in theory plus you can spare min/gas for more facs early.
This seems like the most likely answer. Even though the gas had to be mined at a higher rate the ability of the goliaths to fend off that first weakened attack (the loss in productivity from the vulture attack guaranteed this) meant that the gain in minerals going to terran could never be met even if they eco'd and now they had to commit everything to an attack even though they knew their muta count was going to be low. The goliaths just took the space . They cancelled that third expo and were so offensively threatening to the zerg base that they essentially got a contain on the muta activity. Wild shit.
@@HercSpeed I've always wondered how locked down T was versus Z in modern meta early game that nobody ever tried this. like 85% of the Z opens are the same. I do notice Flash and Speed doing something similar sometimes, but they can't help themselves to the ebay and/or valk crutch ( = less facs) and blow the entire commit of pure gols (+1 gols and range). Turrets have become totally worthless in the modern 24 turnrate muta micro and I'm really surprised this is the only replay I've seen actually commit 100% to the idea. Zerg definitely can't stop this open on most maps if we base it on the current meta.
One marine and no bunker means this build is pretty vulnerable to early aggression; Zerglings could have delayed the natural. Successful harassment with vultures also gave terran an economy lead, and terran still only barely holds. Build could be faster with optimization, to make the vulnerable window smaller. Hard to say if truely viable or just lucky.
@@hemingwaybromfield3722 I think this is a good thing to have in a series of games just to keep Z honest. This one and a more optimized, less vulnerable version of this
Why is this cast here this late in the evening and not the morning?
...doesn't matter, imma watch anyway
Right
Nothing I love more than watching a cloud of mutalisks evaporate (except a cloud of carriers evaporate of course)
Ohh the T800 got "Terminated" by mass robitic Goliaths
Secret middle of day (Australia) artosis cast? Its summer and i just got chills.
I got a wakeup cast at 7am in Poland. What a Christmas gift ;) still looking forward to that regular 3pm cast
As a Goliath enjoyer, this warms my heart.
why is anyone surprised to see this development, everyone wants mutas dead, and turrets have been proven to be nigh worthless (13 HITS. 13 HITS FROM A MISSILE TURRET).
goliaths are missile turrets that kill mutas faster, can be upgraded, can put on pressure, don't require an ebay, don't waste scv mining time, can defend themselves, can stack up massively, can reposition constantly, what's there not to like
Turrets are fine as they are. Its mutalisks being small that is annoying.
Spot on
@@redfiendif turrets had normal instead of explosive damage, or change the size of mutas from small to at least medium (if my math is right the damage would scale to 10/15/20 s/m/L) turrets would be a more viable defense. As it is, terran has limited options by the time mutas drop by for a cordial visit
Apart from size/explosive damage, the reason we don’t see goliaths used more extensively is *probably* because of optimization.
Goliaths aren’t terribly expensive, but they aren’t cheap, either. Sitting at 100/50 IIRC they are right in between marines/vultures and siege tanks.
The dichotomy that putting the scvs to mine or do other tasks is pitted against the fact that while you are building goliaths, you aren’t building siege tanks or vultures.
I have always believed goliath’s greatest asset is their range. Their power while fully upgraded is a thing of awe, but for muta defense you might only see +1.
Despite the protection mutas enjoy from the small category, if you are able to get the range upgrade fast enough, it MAY make up for the damage, if you are able to hit critical mass.
I have seen a few handful of games where the mutas dive in not knowing there is a whole squad of goliaths waiting for them, and they turn 180 real quick after the first volley or 2.
@@Larsgman I always thought its because they are hard countered by hydra
Love these mini series. Started with Flash and now ForGG.
1 Marine, 3 Vultures, then just non stop Goliaths
Hey, it shoots both up AND down!
4GG god. How liberating to not have to think about stupid missile turrets.
omg goliaths shoot up AND down!
RT hasn't considered that they might be the best unit in the game
this is the weirdest timing I've ever seen
Uploading opposite time of day is weirder.
Zero turrets against muta is WILD STUFF i haven't played in years but i can't believe how perfect the timing worked out
Goliaths have longer range than missile turrets. And because you can control them, you can focus fire all of your Goliaths to target a single Muta, taking it out quickly.
And because Goliaths are mobile, you can move them around your base. So instead of having 2-3 missile turrets slowly taking down the Mutas, you have 5-6 Goliaths roaming around your base and focus firing the Mutas.
And unlike missile turrets, pullback micro doesn't work on Goliaths, because of focus firing. So the Zerg will always lose at least a couple Mutas in every engagement.
Added to this the goliaths can use pullback micro themselves
Looking at all of this I'm starting to suspect turrets are mainly just a psychological defense. I mean: it's painful to see your mutas targeted by them but in reality you can just ignore them. Similarly: it just feels nice to have them but do they REALLY protect against anything other than drops? They are like a cardboard door to psychologically close your house with
It's only a walking missile turret with really good range.
And you can upgrade them.
And you can focus fire all your Goliaths onto a single Muta.
And it's hard for the muta dance to one shot since you can stutter the Goliaths
The really long range always brings the promise that the goliaths will get first strike against mutas
A snowy Christmas eve here in New England and goliaths abound. Got chills in so many ways.
Im gonna pretend this means we get 2 episodes every day going forward,please dont crush my dreams boss.
Yeah, way too many have their hearts set on two episodes every day forever now. It wouldn't be right to deny them that
This feels like the time that my parents left out the Nintendo they were going to get us for Christmas and hadn’t wrapped it and we found it and hooked it up.
Wait wut. Christmas episode?
ForGG doing Ghosts and we all can rest in peace
The thing is, we've seen both Flash and Sharp try out this style, tho probably not this particular build. T-800 was not very smart with this mutas. He thought he could just straight up fight the golaiths, whereas better Zergs don't do that, and just stick to the heavy harassment of the mineral line as usual. When the goliaths get there to defend, you run away your mutas and just start harassing the other mineral line instead. The terran has to keep their goliaths together in a clump to more effectively defend, which slows them down. T-800 was continually losing mutas taking dumb engagements, which forced him to spend income replacing them, when he should have been building a ground army to prepare for the inevitable push.
At 7:06, T-800 was wasting his time attacking the mineral line with three mutas and killed literally zero SCVs. He could have had 6 mutas there and been doing pretty good damage if he hadn't tried to fight the goliaths earlier.
I feel like Flash used to do something really similar to this except instead of NO turrents it was like, MINIMAL turrets.
Ah yes, the build that 12 year old me used 20 years ago. Build only the tier 1.5 unit that shoots both air and ground because anything else is too complicated for my smooth brain. Works for all 3 races. Terran->Goliath. Protoss->Dragoon. Zerg->Hydralisk.
Yes!!! 8:57!! Love Artosis Casts!!! Love all the new strategies and how you commentate about it. Keep it up bro
I love that Artosis thought this build couldn't possibly work, then ForGG just walks over the zerg defenses with ease. But now we need a fourth ForGG vs Zerg to see if any of them can optimally counter these unusual strategies.
need a fourth fogg so a FOURTHGG? AHAHAH GET IT?!
@soldier22881 uugghhh yeahhh 😂
@@chris42069 i love you
I've never been this early arty. chills arty chills
I'm really appreciating ForGG's play. It goes to show that there is a lot of scope in terms of playstyle, despite the game's age. I'll look forward to seeing more from this mad scientist!
Nice new artosis cast while I do late night Christmas cooking!
'I'm going to keep watching ForGG TvZ games until I get a normal one so I can get a feel for how he 'normally' plays the matchup'
Proceeds to go insane build after insane build as Artosis slowly realizes that this IS how he normally plays the matchup lmao.
The irony is strong.
YESS THANK YOU ARTOSIS FOR GIVING US QUALITY VODS IT IS THE HIGHLIGHT OF MY DAY!! THANK YOU!!
I always love when an old vet comes back and whips the new generation with guile and cunning.
Amazing game.
I've never seen goliaths perform so well against mutas. Did ForGG make an ebay the entire game?
It felt like a personal challenge to not make any turrets, even after the mutas were revealed.
Honestly, this feels like a throwback to og mech builds vs zerg. I hope the old boys coming back into the scene continue to focus on macro builds like this. Cute muta micro isn’t gonna stop 2 control groups of upgrades goliaths from a-moving into your natural
Along with the obvious limitations of turrets against mutas, one of the bigger ones that isn't thought of or talked about much is the fact that you can't focus fire with them, and that muta stacking hard counters that. Turrets and goliaths each have their own pros and cons but being able to focus fire with the goliaths might make all the difference.
After seeing Flash comeback, didnt expected some old but Gold players also make at least a revisit to the game, i feel terran is in the mid of another breakrtrought, with the hardworker the genious and the madlad.
Mass Goliaths give me the same chills as the Battle of Zion in Matrix 3
Beside the vults, to counter and early ling-muta attack he could also make a semy wall in the natural and eventually send scv plus block the ramp with scv if needed to avoid lings in main.
I wonder if you can go pure liath like that and I also wonder how this stands against lurks, liaths are very strong vs ultra lings but with no detection I wonder how it'd work out, maybe with some scouting terran can rush into eng turrets, I don't know.
P.s. Actually hyra lurks rush may be extremely strong against this
The 3rd deny was critical to that win as he didnt have gas for hydras switxh while threatening muta dive.
A1 for an aggressive mech build that can actually deal with muta harass though.
Hat tip to ForGG
If he would have walked in with just that one sunken there is no way he would have had many hydra's before that gas operation was up and running. There were no drones, no extractor (or whatever you call the zerg version of a gas thingy). I think it was just good hygiene to kill it, at the expense of giving the zerg time to finish sunkens
fOrGG was my favorite player to watch back in the day exactly because of games like this. He would do some build that doesn't make sense and then suddenly he has way more units than he's supposed to at a certain timing and then steamrolls his opponent with them. So funny to watch. His macro was really something to behold.
2 videos in 1 day? what a wonderful early christmas present
i get the feeling he decided to do this after how successful the vulture attack was. I really HOPE that mass goliath was the plan all along though because that was so cool.
"I'm getting some chills right now", Arty spoke
Took 30 years for sc players to figure out goliaths are pretty good if you can actually move them across the map despite their pathfinding AI
Wait...what time is it?!???
Artosis: Babe, you GOT to build us an ebay!
ForGG: GOLIATH ONLINE GOLIATH ONLINE
The thing Goliaths can give you over missile turrets is local superiority of numbers. They're not fast so it really relies on correctly assuming where you need them to be at any given time. Not economical on paper, but missile turrets don't deny that third base or bust through those sunkens at the end.
The biggest advantage is the ability to focus fire your Goliaths to take down a single Muta quickly. Focus firing is very powerful.
That build was insane. He even has the flexibility to add 1-2 tanks and time the siege if they go for more sunks.
A single group of 12 zerglings would have made those sunken colonies indestructible if they were defensive. That's the issue here. ForGG got lucky.
I prepared a blanket for the inevitable chills.
Santosis has delivered us an early Christmas present.
Goliaths are my favorite Starcraft unit, this was so fun to watch~
For Christmas, I want to see Ghosts, I want to see Scouts, I want to see Devourers.
T800 is a badass name
It would be nice to run some tests:
Test 1: How fast do you kill a muta? Time one muta against one turret VS one muta against one goliath (of course when you scale it gets different and is there splash? But it would be good to get the basic math straight.)
Test 2: How much does a turret cost including missed mining time by the SCV? Let one SCV mine during the building time of one turret to determine this
Quote from 1998 ; Goliaths are literally walking missle turrets.
I love StarCraft because the phrase “wow, he should have started that two seconds ago” would sound like crazy talk to anyone but a SC fan
It is crazy talk. Two seconds delay means nothing in 99% of cases.
zergtosis: he literally just made goliaths!! and attack moved! Wow you're so talented!
1:45 ok, well, 12/12 again, probably another factory, here we go! against a 12/11/10
3:25 simcity is interesting. crazy defensive, is this going to be just valkirie into bio?
4:59 christ! that's... a LOT of damage, he may be able to ride that advantage all the way to mass tank if he wants. or maybe just run him over with goliath
5:39 oh. no ebay. welp, somebody's gonna die today!
6:52 and the goliaths have held and zerg is getting +1 air attack against no turrets... this... does not look good!
7:33 even a mech upgrade... i mean, you just walk across now, right? against 26 drones?
10:10 yeah so this... looks like way too many goliaths. we just win now?
wow! turretless 2 base 5 factory goliath push that ends the game at 11 minutes... crazy. thanks RT!
I am a complete starcraft noob and ive always wondered why goliaths werent the obvious choice over turrets. They are turrets... that can also hit ground units... that can also MOVE! To me they seem like terrans version of dragoons. Just give them proper support
forgg woke up and choose to play starship troopers in brood war
I want to see Arty playing this on stream!
Casually dropping a new meta
Who is T-800? Probably from future since we get new episode ahead of time...
Upgrades are what differentiate the most I'd argue. Especially if your attacks are doubled & they don't have armour upgrades.
I want more Protoss upgrades... if you've read my comments previously.
Merry Christmas Terran! Turns out the counter to mutas is a golaith all in, skip turrents. Literally how could anyone have guessed
Must be mecha monday with all the goliaths
finally a terran player that doesnt spam marines that get deleted quickly and actually uses goliaths. this terran player has a bright future ahead of them
Love when these rookies burst onto the scene
I don't blame him, turrets are dogshit. Love it!!!!! Hope this becomes a legit strat.
4:26 Harras mineral line with 3 Vultures that score !!7"(seven)!! zerg drones, dropping the zerg worker count from 21 to 14 , mineral line getting the chills.
5:24 "Engineering Armoury" ftw? Continuing to watch the game.
I've been getting back into actually playing BW lately and I've mostly been playing Protoss, but am not having a great time and have been considering going Terran. Think I'm finally gonna do it after seeing this video, Mech vs Zerg is my shit.
What is SCV boosting, i don't get it?
What an early christmas treat! 2 casts in 1 day
Used to watch GSL back in the day. These videos are a bit of a nostalgia hit.
A late night upload!?
I love it!
Thanks for the accidental late night gift, Arty
and a hot game, to boot
This build is dedicated to every Terran player that GG’d at 7 minutes because they got harassed to death by 6 mutalisks.
Loving these old school guys back in the sc game
that initial defend against muta/ling was very close. those last three goliaths coming out of those factories was the deciding factor in that fight
no bunker, no seige tanks, no static defense of any kind. strangely enough both players had enough reserve resources to make a few units during the fight.
that vultue attack did seem to make a difference in attack size, but was it THE difference? also, with how much the golaiths were mostly clumped toward the middle, the muta harrass on the natural could have been significantly more aggressive, with little punishment
it completely counters zerglings and melt mutas enmasse. i mean it just makes sense
This zerg looked like a diamond player in sc2... He literally sees the vultures for ages. Lings to the right, block choke with a drone... And then you don't lose 1/3 of your economy.
I, for one, welcome our new Goliath overlords.
I love the earlier uploads. I'm an early riser so watching this before the kids wake up is great.
What?
This is so cool!
He nuked i believe 7 drones with that 3 vulture drive by.
I am willing to bet that huge set back is what allowed him to get that highway robbery win (lol) with pure goliath madness.
I was honestly scared for a bit when t800 got in his base and wiped out his defenses, but then more Goliaths spawned
ForGG is the Minstrel of pro players.
At first you're befuddled at what you see, but then you realize they give you some of the most entertaining matches.
The ''lucky'' vultures were key, if the economy hadn't been damaged, Zerg would produce units earlier and show more aggression.