Excellent video! I did a shallow dive into n-stems a while back when looking into the murky etymology of "hare", but this presents that topic and other archaisms in Proto-Germanic in such eloquent and expansive detail! I never thought that the Germanic languages would be so conservative in some of their features. Also, the connection between the English "am" and the PIE athematic 1ps ending is such a cool detail hidden in plain sight. Thanks for exploring that connection! It's so cool to see you getting more views and subscribers for this well-researched content! I'm lucky enough to say I've been here since before the red-logo rebrand haha... Keep up the great work!
@@tidsdjupet-mr5ud I see! Well, I like the choice! Guus Kroonen is certainly a name I've seen a lot more than once, so I think I'll have to take a closer look at his works. Thanks for the recommendation!
Thank you for your outstanding videos which shed new light on the topic of Pre-Proto-Germanic and the possible influence of substrate languages. IMHO, this is an area where much work is still needed to challenge and replace outdated ideas. Your contributions are invaluable in advancing this effort.
@@ĐorđeMartinović-x3d Germanic "have" and latin "habere" are not cognate, the germanic cognate to "habere" is actually "give". The cognate to "have" in latin is actually "capere".
@@ĐorđeMartinović-x3d It probably meant something like "exchange" originally. Then, depending on if you looked at it from the giver's or the receiver's perspective, the meaning changed.
@@ĐorđeMartinović-x3d It's not really the opposite, but I also find it ironic that they are NOT cognates, when looking so similar, but the conjugation is still very similar.
@@tidsdjupet-mr5udI would argue, that in fact they are very distantly related. The germanic habem is from pie *kap- "to hold, to grasp" and the latin habeo is from *ghabh- "to hold, to grasp". Notice how both stems are essentially the same, but with the distinction, that one has tenuis stops and the other one has breathy stops. Stems in PIE could not have both a breathy and a tenuis stop. This suggests either some archaic process of harmony or more likely that they were both one sound, but diverged. This may have been caused by simplification of an older accent system, which is far too ancient and obscured for us to ever grasp. One can easily imagine, that based on declining and conjugating, the word could be accented in many different ways, creating various alternations between breathy and tenuis stops. I have also noticed this pattern in the word *plew-/*bhlew- "to flow, to float" and *-trom/*-dhrom/*-tlom/*-dhlom "instrumental"
How come RUclips didn’t show me the notification of this video I was wait for when I had already activated all notifications? I absolutely love the content of your videos.
Excellent video. I immediately subscribed to the channel. This is the type of informative video often not seen in linguistics youtube due to actually needing specialized and well researched information on the topic and not just a Wikipedia article copy and paste. Thanks so much! Looking forward to more content.
I know it's not Germanic or IE, but as a Finnish speaker it's always so strange to see many of our (current) words being quite similar to the "reconstructed/unattested" old Germanic words.
Interesting, and any attempt at reconstruction (if at all possible) of the pre-Proto-Germanic stage of the language should probably take these archaic elements into consideration, in the sense that they would have been more prominent the further you went back in time. The connections are sometimes surprising for non-specialists like myself. For instance, I found out only yesterday that Gothic 'weitwōþs' preserves an old perfect participle cognate to ancient Greek '(w)eidōs'. Fascinating.
Not in the way you would be able to speak Latin, I think, and probably also less so than Gothic, which is directly attested by a somewhat substantial but selective body of written texts. Better than PIE for sure, but there are still uncertainties regarding morphology, and of course the resulting product even if grammatically and morphologically sound may have come across as un-idiomatic to native ears if they were able to hear it. I imagine that it would be a little like trying to learn a modern language from a dictionary, more or less.
@@ansibarius4633 There are some endings that differ between daughter languages and that we cannot reconstruct 100% for Pgmc. - Nominative in masculine n-stems - Nominative in ijo-stems - Declension of "man" - Class 3 weak verbs
Jag har märkt att runt år 1000 så var det i praktiken ingen skillnad mellan danska och svenska. År 1200 så började Danskan ändras och är lättförstålig för en modern svensk. Det tog enda till 1600-talet tills svenskan blev mer och mer likt danskan. Kan du göra en film om hur svenska språket blev mer konservativt vikingaspråk och det är bara efter 1600-talet som språket blev mer lik danskan. Jag använde chatGBT för att kolla upp detta.
Bro is the best type of youtuber: high quality, straight to the point, no annoying sponsors.
Excellent video! I did a shallow dive into n-stems a while back when looking into the murky etymology of "hare", but this presents that topic and other archaisms in Proto-Germanic in such eloquent and expansive detail! I never thought that the Germanic languages would be so conservative in some of their features. Also, the connection between the English "am" and the PIE athematic 1ps ending is such a cool detail hidden in plain sight. Thanks for exploring that connection!
It's so cool to see you getting more views and subscribers for this well-researched content! I'm lucky enough to say I've been here since before the red-logo rebrand haha... Keep up the great work!
Much of this video is based on Guus Kroonen.
The red logo is Christmas theme.
@@tidsdjupet-mr5ud I see! Well, I like the choice! Guus Kroonen is certainly a name I've seen a lot more than once, so I think I'll have to take a closer look at his works. Thanks for the recommendation!
Great stuff - big fan. A burgundy or earth-green grenadine tie would go rly nicely with that jacket.
Thank you for your outstanding videos which shed new light on the topic of Pre-Proto-Germanic and the possible influence of substrate languages. IMHO, this is an area where much work is still needed to challenge and replace outdated ideas. Your contributions are invaluable in advancing this effort.
5:39 There is still a two-syllable form "Icke" for Ich in German. It is Berlin dialect but I have heard it used (rarely) in Hamburg as well.
It's incredible how much the conjugation of OHG haben at 01:22 looks like the present indicative of Latin habeō
@@ĐorđeMartinović-x3d Germanic "have" and latin "habere" are not cognate, the germanic cognate to "habere" is actually "give". The cognate to "have" in latin is actually "capere".
@@tidsdjupet-mr5ud How did cognates like 'give' and 'habere' end up with opposite meanings?
@@ĐorđeMartinović-x3d It probably meant something like "exchange" originally. Then, depending on if you looked at it from the giver's or the receiver's perspective, the meaning changed.
@@ĐorđeMartinović-x3d It's not really the opposite, but I also find it ironic that they are NOT cognates, when looking so similar, but the conjugation is still very similar.
@@tidsdjupet-mr5udI would argue, that in fact they are very distantly related. The germanic habem is from pie *kap- "to hold, to grasp" and the latin habeo is from *ghabh- "to hold, to grasp". Notice how both stems are essentially the same, but with the distinction, that one has tenuis stops and the other one has breathy stops. Stems in PIE could not have both a breathy and a tenuis stop. This suggests either some archaic process of harmony or more likely that they were both one sound, but diverged. This may have been caused by simplification of an older accent system, which is far too ancient and obscured for us to ever grasp. One can easily imagine, that based on declining and conjugating, the word could be accented in many different ways, creating various alternations between breathy and tenuis stops. I have also noticed this pattern in the word *plew-/*bhlew- "to flow, to float" and *-trom/*-dhrom/*-tlom/*-dhlom "instrumental"
How come RUclips didn’t show me the notification of this video I was wait for when I had already activated all notifications? I absolutely love the content of your videos.
Excellent. Purely excellent.
Excellent video.
I immediately subscribed to the channel. This is the type of informative video often not seen in linguistics youtube due to actually needing specialized and well researched information on the topic and not just a Wikipedia article copy and paste.
Thanks so much! Looking forward to more content.
I know it's not Germanic or IE, but as a Finnish speaker it's always so strange to see many of our (current) words being quite similar to the "reconstructed/unattested" old Germanic words.
Interesting, and any attempt at reconstruction (if at all possible) of the pre-Proto-Germanic stage of the language should probably take these archaic elements into consideration, in the sense that they would have been more prominent the further you went back in time. The connections are sometimes surprising for non-specialists like myself. For instance, I found out only yesterday that Gothic 'weitwōþs' preserves an old perfect participle cognate to ancient Greek '(w)eidōs'. Fascinating.
Wonderful work! ❤
Can we get a video about the Germanic substrate hypothesis??
ruclips.net/video/X-Pa5Zo__js/видео.html
Is auhsau/auhsne related to the Swedish word for donkey "Åsna"
No, it is "oxe".
Is Proto-Germanic reconstructed well enough so that you could learn to speak it?
Personally I’d say yes
Yup
Not in the way you would be able to speak Latin, I think, and probably also less so than Gothic, which is directly attested by a somewhat substantial but selective body of written texts. Better than PIE for sure, but there are still uncertainties regarding morphology, and of course the resulting product even if grammatically and morphologically sound may have come across as un-idiomatic to native ears if they were able to hear it. I imagine that it would be a little like trying to learn a modern language from a dictionary, more or less.
@@ansibarius4633 What about the languages on Rune stones pre-Viking Age? Proto Norse? But Gothic is a bit older than most early rune-texts.
@@ansibarius4633 There are some endings that differ between daughter languages and that we cannot reconstruct 100% for Pgmc.
- Nominative in masculine n-stems
- Nominative in ijo-stems
- Declension of "man"
- Class 3 weak verbs
Så det er grunnen til at hare på norsk kan hete både "hare" og "jase"?
@@se6369 Ja, det nämner Kroonen i sin bok.
Du är rätt lik Olof Palme
Jag har märkt att runt år 1000 så var det i praktiken ingen skillnad mellan danska och svenska. År 1200 så började Danskan ändras och är lättförstålig för en modern svensk. Det tog enda till 1600-talet tills svenskan blev mer och mer likt danskan. Kan du göra en film om hur svenska språket blev mer konservativt vikingaspråk och det är bara efter 1600-talet som språket blev mer lik danskan. Jag använde chatGBT för att kolla upp detta.
Bro sounds about 30 years older than he looks.