The higher voltage means you’re drawing less amps, meaning the wiring and electronics can be sized smaller. So double the voltage instead of using 8 gauge wire you can use 16 gauge (half the size) and have the same amount of resistance. The resistance is what causes the heat.
@@bennygerow if anything it would be the opposite, higher amps mean shorter battery cycles (as well as shorter battery life, the lower the current load the better) and voltage is what determines the speed of a motor (under no load, a motor will spin at a speed which is directly related to the voltage supplied, so a lot of motors come with a kv rating - velocity constant - which is how many RPMs you get per volt.) However, motor torque is dependent on amps. A motor setup for higher current will have more power and torque overall. Generally, higher voltage is better because of what MondoTV described as well as the above points I mentioned. A 12v (3 cells in series/3S) battery supplying 180w (15A) with the same cells as an 18V (5S) battery supplying 180w (10A) will last 2/3rds as long and generate more heat in the process, degrading the batteries and the rest of the components faster.
Double the voltage, half the amps. Sounds good. But then how many batteries in series-parallel is needed to make the higher voltage. Then it gets heavier.
@@imperialsecuritybureau6037 Higher amperage is beneficial for more power . If you don't need the power go with 12v. If you need more power, go with a higher voltage. Higher amps does not equate to shorter battery cycles. You're confusing amperage with power (Watts)
@@bobthompson4319 I personally have not but I've pulled 350ft lb torqued mast nuts off forklifts with zero issues out of m12 1/2 stubby. I think it's like 1-5/16 socket and it handles it good
@@throughmylens5127 that makes me happy. I just got the stubby 3/8 on sale for 129, waiting for it to ship still, its on backorder. I already have the m18 1/2 impact wrench, I was scared the stubby wouldn't have enough power.
Once a installed 4 rows of seats on a big van (involving drilling and tapping the hardened steel legs of the seats) with only a Bosh 12v drill that are even more compact than those mentioned, and they were brushed the nowadays brushless are even more efficient and powerful.
I have had a 12V cheap mini SDS hammer for a couple of years, maybe not as powerful but powerful enough, light, and comfy, router and multi-tool pretty much the same...best description for 12V is "it'll do, little piggy, it'll do" xD
Thank you for titling this video this way. I was having a really tough time trying to find out this information, and when I saw the title of this video, I was like “YES! Finally! That’s what I want to know!” Thanks for making this information easily findable and searchable!
I’m a pro user and have Milwaukee 18 volt system as well as m12 and I have to say I love the size of m12 for most applications and performs very well .
With an 18V hand tool, I'm working work. With a 12V hand tool, I'm working while having fun. My advice to someone starting out: 1. For hand tools, go with 12V. When you need a particulsr tool with more power, go to 21.6/24V: Flex, Hilti, or Kobalt. 2. Resist the urge to find a single voltage for hand tools and outdoor power equipment; you'll regret it.
Most name brand 18 or 20 volt batteries all use five Samsung, LG, or Panasonic, 18650 cells connected in series. These packs measure just over 20 volts fresh off the charger and average about 18 volts over their discharge cycle. They are the exact same pack whether they are rated at 18 or 20 volts. To simplify things I will give both with the nominal voltage in brackets. Milwaukee has the M[18]20 and Dewalt the 20[18]volt MAX. Now isn't that better?
Started with 7.2V then 14.4V to 18V and discovered 12V. Now I use 12V 90% of the time. 12V does not mean less power, power is the combination of voltage and amps or watts. However higher voltage means less amps (for the same power), thus more efficient in using smaller copper wiring, less voltage drop and happy, happy motor. The major advance was going from nicad to lithium. The next generation could be the power of 18V in the size of a 12V battery pack.
For the homeowner that needs to build ikea furniture, the walmart hypertough 12v drill kit for 20 dollars will do everything they they need, forever. For outdoor power equipment, its obvious who made the right call because they didnt need to make yet another platform for riding mowers. EGO's 56v line takes the cake for all electric OPE, and this is coming from someone who owns ryobi 40v tools. While theres 80v brands like greenworks, EGO still wins in just about every comparison on their 56v.
Milwaukee m12 and m18 are extremely expensive here in the UK, and the m12 fuel hammer drill isn't as small as people like to think. I was going to sell a kidney to buy it but then saw the Dewalt 709 which you call the Atomic but here in England it has metal chuck and is all of 4mm longer than the m12 and to get the most out of that drill you need the higher amp battery which again costs as much as the tool. So after getting a great deal on the hammer drill with 3 battery packs that dictated what platform I use and now I have compact reciprocating saw, impact wrench, multi tool, angle grinder and the portable air compressor which has paid for itself in the first month. I'm now invested in the 18v platform.
I'm still alittle confused. Help me out here with one simple answer please. For a homeoner just wanting to occasionally DIY his way around the house, occasionally drill into concrete and shape planks as well. What should i get? - 12v, 18v or 20v?
On 12v, no, just closer... Can't really get true 12v with the battery chemistry they use as 3.6v to 3.7v per cell doesn't add up to 12v, just 10.8v to 11.1v before another cell shoots it past 12v... What can be a true 12v are LifePO4 cells, which are what they use for drop in replacements for car batteries, home power walls, etc. as they're 3.2v and get you to 12.8v... You can even use regular 12v chargers on them in most cases, and they're safer to use than most other lithium battery chemistries... But they're bulkier and aren't as power dense than the cells used in tool batteries...
18650 cells are 4v max. Hence 3 cells per pack = 12v max, 5 cells per pack = 20v max. Nominal volts for both will be lower. You can see the outline of the basic 3 cells on the business end of the battery
interesting, I figured a little while ago to just stick with one battery platform and chose milwaukee m18. i ended up buying a bunch of non brushless m18 tools in a bundle for a good price and figure when I replace them eventually with the brushless I'd give these away or sell cheap or something. maybe I should look into replacing some of these with the m12, like the impact driver. i'm in the market for a jig saw and was going to buy an m18 one this weekend, does the m12 jigsaw cut through hardwood easily? I would classify myself as that second level of DIYer - trying to build different things and maybe some furniture from time to time.
The m12 lineup is awesome. But personally if you have a line up of the m18 tools and only want to get one more Milwaukee tool I would get the m18. That way you can just get the tool itself. That way you need to buy a set of m12 batteries as well. The Milwaukee fuel is definitely a great investment to go with if you want a good long lasting tool. The regular Milwaukee works really well as well I used those tools for a long time when I first got into Milwaukee but as I went progressing I got a whole lineup of the Milwaukee fuel tools. And it’s awesome
@@dushk0 already have a table saw and small circular saw. Still need a regular size 7 1/4" circ saw! I ended up getting the m18 jig saw, needed something to cut holes out of wood with
It’s refreshing to see a transition in the conversation around tools from “I need the biggest, baddest, most powerful tools possible” to “Maybe we just use the tools that make the most sense for the specific application.”
That’s right I love my 12v for my automotive use. Haven’t had the need to upgrade to bigger power yet as I also don’t do suspension or anything really mainly interior work and basic maintenance
@fartpoobox ohyeah you obviously have never tried to use an impact on screws in metal. Bolt heads shear off with a sneeze if you aren't paranoid in how you drive them. Most Bolt heads also not rated for impact shock so you damage them on first drive in. But most people with your mindset never actually pay attention to who is going to have to pull out those fasteners or take off that hose clamp or in general to any work on any of the stuff you touch after you personally leave.
When i started my building apprenticeship in the late 70s , the first cordless drill came out, it was the Makita 7.2 cordless drill, it took me 1 mth to pay it off , i still have that drill with 1 battery & charger that came with it, but has now been in retirement over the last 40yrs & have kept it for sentimental reasons only ,it's been my little baby
I actually like the M12 Fuel circular saw for it's light weight and ease of use. Sure it's not as powerful as the M18 Fuel, but as long as your not cutting stacks of lumber, M12 will get the job done just fine.
I have the m12 saw been using it for 4 years I do remodeling and handyman work this saw is my go to. I have makita 36v rear handle and standard but the m12 is a beast
I use the m12 saw with the 6amp battery. Even then it's basically a sheet good breakdown saw to kick around the truck just in case. Honestly dont like cutting 2x4s or anything larger with it as it sounds like I'm asking to much of it when it runs. If I'm onsite no power il use the m18 saw with the 12amp it came with. Rapid charger plugs into the truck. I know this is sacrilege but still prefer a corded wormdrive for alot of things. I like the torque and that the saw doesnt bog down under load. Some sidewinders rev so high at freespinning they sound like they're going to rattle-fly apart [skilsaw sidewinder] dewalt makes a good sidewinder we've had good with with.
I buy m18 because I see my coworkers spending 3 minutes to cut one peice of conduit with there m12 while talking about how it gets the job done the same. The Sawzall kinda depends on the blade but fresh blade to fresh blade it feels like I'm cutting atleast twice as fast vs. The m12. The bandsaw seems like 3 or 4 times faster. Don't even get me started on holesaws on those tiny m12 drills.
Yeah but having multiple battery packs to worry about kinda sucks. Right now I have Dewalt 20v, Hitachi 18v, Milwaukee 12v, Ryobi 18v, ego 56v and snapper, can't remember what the snapper runs at but I think it's 52v or around there. I wish someone made a battery adapter that actually worked.
Ha, Ha, Ha, Y’all’s story is similarly to mine ! What ever was on sale! And a good deal! Started with Milwaukee m-12 all ready had DeWalt drill, then Kobalt came in to the pitcher have about 12 tools from them ! Bosh freak went on sale had to have that ! Now I’m thinking 🤔 about Makita, from watching RUclips videos , i think 🤔 maybe collecting tools has become a hobby, rather than actually using the dam tools!
For a small engine mechanic like me, 12V is ideal because you can run many (but not all) screws, bolts, & nuts down without accidentally stripping them from over tightening. Plus, most fasteners can be removed easily with 12V.
To be honest most good 12v impacts will carry you pretty well through MOST automotive applications. I've used a m12 stubby to remove rusty old motor mount bolts on a f150. And the m18 high torque carries me all the way through kingpins and lug nuts on class 7/8 trucks
I'm also a small engine technician and that DeWalt 12v 1/4" screwdriver is my go to for 90% of the stuff I do as I handle most of the handheld ope. The adjustable chuck works like a fast and dirty torque wrench, the lack of impact is safer on plastic/delicate components and it's so compact when you're working in tight spots like snowblowers and lawnmowers.
I think for most DIY projects you really only need a cordless drill and/or driver. Corded cutting tools are more than sufficient for most homeowners, since they are by definition working around the house they will generally have access to a plug
If you can afford/justify the luxury, having both 12v and 18v platforms is phenomenal. Certain tools are well suited to either voltage. M12 and Makita LXT are my go to, and I break out each set equally as often and can tailor to the task I'm about to go perform
I have Makita LXT, love it, but jumping into m12 for the rotary tool. Thinking about splurging for the installation drill/driver. Any other standout m12 tools that you feel fills in gaps in the Makita lineup?
Hydraulic impact driver is a real pleasure to use, if you have the option. The new 3d laser is also a must if you are in the market for one. For my work, being a electrician, the compact bandsaw, right angle impact/impact wrench/ drill are really doing the trick
@@mischavanengelen5343 I don't like the m18 fuel hydraulic impact. It has half the rpms, and half the max torque compared to the non hydraulic. I don't know if the hydraulic one has the multiple power settings that the non hydraulic has either. Mine can ram it home or be beautifully delicate. "Like a leaf on the wind" - serenity
So I’m going to disagree with what you guys said about what most home owners need. Most home owners don’t have or need 30 different battery powered tools. I would say that most only need a small drill and maybe an impact driver. They also don’t generally need tons of power. Look at most consumer based tools. Black and decker and such. They are largely 3/8 drive drills that aren’t too fast or too strong. I would say most home owners would be thrilled with the power and usability of dewalt or Milwaukee
You do realize that both Milwaukee and DeWalt make an entry level, dare I say home owner grade and even a pro-sumer grade/level tool, just below their top of the line tools, like their FUEL (or which ever sticker is on the DeWalt, depending on which store you're buying it from, as they're too confusing). Lithium Brushed, Brushless, FUEL. Each one has their price point and performance rating/output.
@@bennygerow dude, there's a good reason that Ryobi sells a ton of multi tool sets every Christmas and father's day. If "dad" or "mom" is even marginally diy inclined they're going to have at least half a dozen tools. Now, you can play that elitist, gatekeeping, I know better than a homeowner what they need, bullshit all you want; but this pretty fucking easy to start justifying buying those tools once you've got s good battery platform. Ryobi alone, I own an angle grinder, an inflator, a recip-saw, three Bluetooth radio/speakers, a caulking gun, a flashlight; am considering a trim router (Ryobi or Ridgid), a Dremel style tool, etc. Ryobi, and by extension Hart, have a very good idea what the average home owner can actually use and need.
A homeowner, diyer often needs some sort of saw/s in addition to drill drivers. Plus ope and an assortment of other hoysehold things which may run on the same platform. Like inflator, blower, lights, radio, fan, inverter/charger.
We run a farm. We use power tools a lot and are hard on them. I used Dewalt for a long time and then began to invest in the Milwaukee platform. Started with the intention of doing all M18, somehow I ended up with M12 impact and drill. I was sold after a few uses. The M12 does most of the stuff we need. A few exceptions are we have M18 impact and 18 grinder. The M12 platform is unbelievable powerful and reliable.
You guys missed something--the motor on my M12 impact driver is actually BIGGER than my M18. For a long time I stayed away from 12v tools, because there used to be a huge power difference between 12v and 18v. But with new lithium batteries and brushless motors, the gap between the two is much smaller than it used to be.
@Craig Dendy I actually would like you hear what you are getting at here. But I have seen reviews of all the brushless, and the power difference is still large between the less and more powerful tools. The motor isnt everything. Being able to push more power into them is everything. And a bigger motor can mean less efficient. Its all dependent on the architecture. but yeah, the power source means so much, which is the whole point of needing more volts or amps.
I stand by my m18 fuel impact gun (non hydraulic) 2,000 rpm, 2,000in/lb max torque. Yet it has 4 settings, so it can do perfect little baby taps and stops itself. If you splurge the extra money for the my key version. You can go on your smartphone and dial in it's torque value making it like an auto torque wrench... plus it has anti theft features. The next model will probably have a human attatched!
As a counter play on the Olympics Motto I expect power cordless hand tools to evolve “Smaller, Lighter, Stronger”. The latest M12 Fuel brushless line is a good case in point. Sure, if you’re an iron worker 80 volts and magnetic capture is spot on. For many of us, as so clearly stated in a majority of the comments throughout, nimble, precise, manageable are the watchwords. Bigger is better for pure Miller Time boasting is a fading tradition.
I love that I can watch this channel and not be afraid my family might walk in and hear or see something inappropriate. Thanks PTR! Great info today also.
i love that i am not in debt cos my wife is constantly trying to keep up with the jones's, or divorcing me and taking half my shit and the kids when she meets someone who earns $2 an hour more. have fun with that blue-pill bullshit. freedom>family
I have Dewalt 20v and Milwaukee M12. I generally reach for the M12 fuel. In fact , like this morning, I only reached for my 20v impact because I could not remember where I left my m12 impact.
I have a couple m18 drills, a bunch of m12 stuff, and a ryobi set I bought because I needed a bunch of power tools and it was cheap. I've used the ryobi stuff a handful of times, im always using my milwaukee tools
As a electrician that always had 18v Milwaukee and DeWalt, recently I switched to Milwaukee 12v and to a guy climbing a ladder or in a crawl space 12v is a game changer. My opinion is that the right tool for the job is based on the job at hand and it's location.
Fellow sparky I had the m18 fuel band saw and it was so freaking large and heavy it was a massive pain to carry around. Switched it with the smaller fuel metal cutting circ saw.
I can agree somewhat with augmenting with 12v tools in certain instances of very tight spacing in specialty trades such as hvac/service techs/plumbing. Personally, after 38 years as a master carpenter/builder by trade, and a "can fix almost anything" guy in my off time, I have never found anything that i couldn't use my 18v Milwaukee tools for through judicious use of adapters/extensions/swivels that I couldn't accomplish using hand tools. To me the lack of power and versatility in a 12v tool doesn't justify the added cost and headache of having to buy, carry, and maintain them.
@@marcburns508 Yeah, this idea of going 12v seems to be for people who dont mind taking up extra space and cost having 2 versions of each tool, just because one is 2 pounds lighter and a tiny bit smaller. I sympathize, but everybody is admitting 12v is only good for most things, not all. So its nice to have if you dont mind using the extra space or cost, but this discussion would be less edgy if they changed the title to something more suggestive instead of demanding. Yeah, 12v isnt bad at all, but I mainly need these when traveling for work, and I prefer a tool that does it all, instead of that only does most. But thats just me. If you have a shop, I get it. Space and cost dont matter as much.
As someone who maintains 16 properties and does everything from plumbing, moderate carpentry, hvac, and electrical I love my 12v tools for the light weight, compact size in my bag and general ergonomics. Also helps I got an insane deal on a 4 tool m12 fuel tool set but I’m not complaining
My father who just turned 71 had his makita 9.6v die. I replaced it with the dewalt xtreme 12v because of it's size and weight. For what he does now, it was a logical choice. Price and power made perfect sense for a reolacement.
I couldn't imagine using 12v for what I do. My m18 tools time out when I use them. Angle grinders, hackzalls, bandsaws, and drills when mixing masonry. 12v wouldn't be able to do the job.
@@rch5991 I can't imagine milwaukee expecting their 4.5/5" m18 grinder being used by a mobile welder. I thought maybe I was pushing too hard, so I lightened up after letting the tool sit for a while. It still timed out after a couple minutes. They need to work on that. The only real reason I have milwaukee tools is because their massive variety. I do have to say, my son dropped my drill into a bucket of water. Fried the 4.0 battery, but after it dried out the drill worked just fine if not better.
Excellent discussion 👍 I'm on the DeWalt platform and have tools on all 3 lines. 12v, 20v, & 60v...love them all. 12v is definitely the go to nowadays. Only pull out the bigger tools when they are actually needed.
Seems to be you guys are saying if you have 20v tools its nice to have 12v for the lighter work (punchouts) but my takeaway is you can do ALL your work with 20v only but not the other way around... if you have a 12v tool platform you also NEED the higher voltage system for getting you through a whole day doing hard work. Just my 2volts... 😎👍☘️🍺
I’m using M12 for automotive work, M18 for most construction. I have a few M12 to use around the house, and I carry M12 in our RV for on-the-go tools. Both are great whatever way you slice it.
I've found my M12 circular saw great in certain situations. When framing up structures it's not the greatest for constant cuts of 2x lumber, but if your working overhead or on a roof and need to make a quick cut it's incredibly convenient.
I found my m18 non fuel 6.5" skill saw to be a piece of trash with a bent baseplate. I stand by m18 fuel products. I haven't looked @ the skill saw but I bet it's good. I've seen 2 in the wild just never give it a run down. It's a full size 7 1/4" though. My m18 fuel impact is frigging crazy! It has 4 settings, can be super delicate and stop itself, or like a mama bear, or papa bear mode! And a self tapping setting that stops it from impacting until it drills through. The my key version you can go on your phone and set the torque value, and it has anti theft, but it's an extra 100 bucks...
Loved the discussion guys. As a commercial electrician I use both. M12 for running Tek screws and fasteners all day plus the subcompact bandsaw for pipe. I use the M18 for task lighting, circular saw, full size bandsaw, hammer drill, drill and impact for driving into wood, concrete or things like 1/2" concrete anchors. I couldn't do without my M18's but my M12's really save on my body and space for the low demand repetitious tasks. I think DIY was meant to describe anyone who does a project over hiring a professional. With that in mind I'd think 18v for DIY. For anyone looking for the ability to drill holes and hang pictures, TV's, ECT, things that don't constitute DIY, then they can get a cheap drill from Walmart.
Thanks for the excellent overview. I've been wondering which system to choose and this helps. As for system voltage affecting heat produced in the battery cells: Oddly, reconfiguring a pack for higher voltage does not reduce the current or heat produced per cell for a given load. For example imagine a 360 Watt load using 10 cells. At 36V the 360W load is carried by one string of 10 cells, current per cell (and string) is 10 amps. At 18V it requires 20 amps to get the same 360W power. This is shared by two parallel strings of 5 cells each, so the current per string is still 10 Amps. Higher voltage does reduce the current in the wiring, electronics and motor, so the real advantage is in the balance of system. A primary disadvantage of higher voltage is the increased cost of the Battery Management System. Now if only we could freely swap different brands of batteries, then I would feel like the manufacturers cared about us customers. :-)
Sorry I paused @ 9 Min to write this. You forgot about the corded tools. I am fan of 12v tools and I am not professional. What I use the most is drill and driver so its convenient to have a cordless one but that doesn't mean all my tools need to be cordless. Circular saw is good for DIY but you wouldn't need to get a cordless one. It is your place and you can arrange your place to be convenient to corded tools for your small projects. Thanks
Well, the discussion was about batteries and how different voltages compare. So why would they mention corded when that doesn't factor into the discussion? Discussion wasn't about all possible tools, otherwise they could add regular hand tools too. For small cuts, quick jobs, they can be even faster and more convenient... Video would be up to multiple times longer if they covered everything... Hardly practical or relevant to what they were discussing...
@@ZeoCyberG you are right and they don't need to discuss about corded one but when they want to recommend a cordless tools for DIYers they need to take in consideration corded and hand tools. They tried to mention that when they said you are not DIYers any more when you need to start make cuts. Which was not exactly what they meant. The statement should have been. You are not DIYers anymore when you need to have a cordless tools for these issues which mean its more than what homeowners will be willing to do. I hope my idea reached you. Thank you for you comment :)
This Is Really Bizarre. I had to double and triple check the date of this video. I just bought the m12 hammer drill, driver and stubby impact three days ago. As an engineer, working around 12v on the regular, I just feel stupid I didnt realize these tools were up to the task sooner. I am a burly guy but I have been lugging around all this extra weight and bulk for no reason. LOL
I use m12 stuff for the tool box in my truck. M12 hatchet, fuel drill, fuel impact, 3/8's stubby, 3/8s fuel ratchet, 5 1/2 circular saw, jig saw, recip and multi tool. All fit in 2 ridgid brand small tool boxes and still take up no room in my truck bed. The m12 circular saw works pretty good. I use it all the time.
I started out at 16 with m12 and now am 19 and still use m12 and love it I work as a tech on forklifts but work on my home all time on remodeling my house and I have m12 tools out the Wazzu now for everything and does everything I need
Extra: Yeah in the US DeWalt (especially) like to make the tool look to be more powerful by quoting the full charge voltage. However, DeWalt in UK label their tools at the nominal 18v, but they are exactly the same. Why?…Lithium cells are individually nominally 3.7v, but read 4.2v fully charged. So a five cell pack is nominally 18.5v but 21v straight off the charger! When your 18 or 20v labeled drill runs low it is more like 15v. Solid state batteries are gonna change the game again…..
I really like my Makita 18V subcompact set. I would like a few of the 12v cxt line to get a few of the nice light tools such as the ones named: drill, impact, one hand recip, and multitool. The 12v tools are usually a little cheaper too.
I'm a huge fan of the M12 Fuel tools. Like you said, I love being able to have all my main tools together in one bag, plus bits, extra batteries, etc. and have it still be very manageable. They're just so capable now. Hell I ran a 5" hole saw through multiple sheets of 3/4" plywood today to run a heating stack up through an 8 story building. Granted I would normally grab the corded hole hawg for something like that and just tear through it, but it wasn't available, so I made due with my M12 Fuel Hammer Drill/Driver (god bless that 1/2 chuck). Sure it was definitely hot by the end, but so was the M18 being run right next to me. I just get a kick out of the instances where someone that's only ever used M18 tools calls my M12 setup "cute" or says that "their daughter would love that" and then I proceed to keep right up with them on just about any task at hand. As a plumber currently roughing in new apartments that are framed with steel studs and tracking I rarely come across anything that my M12 kit can't handle. The only M18 tool that I'd really like to pick up is the Fuel Sawzall. I love my fuel hackzall, but let's be honest it's not meant to be cutting through thick steel angle iron or anything like that, at least not in any reasonable amount of time. Yep, I'm a Milwaukee guy. Could you tell? Haha.
The problem isn't the drill can't keep up, it's the amp-hours of battery life are so small on the compact batteries we tend to use with them that you need four of them with you when you climb a ladder.
@@mytuberforyou that’s true, that’s why I use the 4.0 and 6.0 batteries in everything but the impact driver. That one I normally just run the little 2.0 compact in. Their regular brushed multi tool definitely chews through even the xc batteries real quick but I’ve never needed 4 batteries for a trip up the ladder lol
@@UnifiedInfo Haven't had the opportunity to try out the M18 version yet but I love my M12 fuel hackzall too. Like you said, the weight balance, compared to trying to one hand the sawzall, is unbeatable
I've been using the m12 circular saw for about 6 months now and love the little thing but sometimes it would be nice for it to be a little bigger so it could do 45s in inch and a half material. Pretty much the only reason for the 18 volt saw in the truck
M12 has gotten more powerful then 18V tools used to be where now 18V tools are most often overkill and are best used as a backup option instead of yhe daily go to
60v is also the cutoff in existing rules and regulations between low voltage and high voltage, 60v is also the max on a lot of readily available economical electronic components, stepping above 60v is a big jump in manufacturing cost
The m12 line has a ton of tools, I hang my drill and impact from my pocket and can move around freely without pulling my shit down. Plenty of power in a small package. Hard to beat it. Other brands try but my 12v dewalt died, my Bosch 12v was too weak. The m18 sit in the box and still look brand new lol
As a new homeowner I had to start getting into DIY projects and landed on M12 Fuel drill/driver kit with free multitool and they have been great...been able to use a 1/2" bit on the hammer drill to drill into concrete for a gate drop rod. So far I'm really digging the M12 Fuel line so I may go for a few of the other tools in the line (have my eye on the hackzawl) but for anything I need more power for I'm going corded i.e. circular saw. For home use I don't see the benefit of going all in to a battery line when corded works just fine if not better.
The m18 fuel hackzall is nice and smooth compared to the m18 non fuel one. Also more powerful. I suggest m18 fuel products. My impact is next level with 4 modes from delicate to wild and a self tapping screw setting. The hammer drill is a hammer drill when needed and has a nice optional handle if things are critical. The multi tool is variable speed with great power, I'm normally running on #4. And they all work with my compressor, skill saw, blower, sucker, hackzall. I do think for home use though. The m12 fuel is probably great. I will say though. Only buy fuel. I bought a non fuel skill saw I don't like (baseplate warped) cheap flat metal with no structure. And a non fuel m12 drill. Rotates so slow I want to throw it in the drink. Wouldn't use it on my bicycle (it's intended use!) Gave it to my aunt for her home kit as it slightly beats using a screw driver, slightly.
Here’s my view, I’m a landscape contractor and I use The Dewalt hammer drill with an auger for planting, and I own the equivalent Milwaukee and it won’t drive the auger in the ground.
Same here. I’m off today, and have no home projects so I’ll think I’ll walk around with the m12 hackzall and cut branches that really don’t have to be cut so I can get my tool high in for the day.
This doesn't prove that 12v are better than 18v/18v-but-mislabelled-as-20v-for-marketing-purposes, it just proves that you guys prefer smaller, less powerful tools for the sort of work you do.
Industrial maintenance tech. Bought impact driver (m12) because the other guy seemed to have no trouble from his. I don’t know how I’ve done my line of work since 99 and refused to give battery powered, other than drills, a chance. Now I won’t be without. M18 is next. I’m a tool nerd, geek, addict and it has pissed my wallet off at me more than once. It hasn’t talked to me all week. I can tear shit down that ppl struggle making a 1/2 in” drive ratchet and deep well fit good and come off excruciatingly slow. But I think my co-worker started a trend. He set it up and I hit go and now everyone but Carl has one. He wants one but his wife lays down the law with a reverberating “NO”! But he is a lazy fuck anyway. He would probably eat the driver because it would remind him of strawberry cheesecake.
Normal day to day at work I run 18volt need the run time and the extra power. My personal automotive impacts and ratchets are 12 volt due to the nature of cars being tight spaces. So it really depends on your situation
I'm a milawakee guy and my take is 12 volt for small stuff like ratchet and, impact driver, and M18 for hammer drill and Grinders and impact wrench and bigger stuff and yes the m12 impact driver is perfect, maby not for big lag bolts and stuff but right tool for the right job
This was very informative and well explained, took a lot of my battery size confusion and made it easier to understand from the user side of the equation. Thank You
Is anyone using LFP (LiFePO4 or LiFeMnPO4) cells in their battery packs, to make them last longer? I don't like disposable tools. I have my dad's Black & Decker 1/4" drill, and it still works fine (though the cord has been replaced). He died in 1962. I want tools that are designed to work *_forever._* I understand that even LFP batteries won't work for 62 years, but they'll do better than the typical NMC lithium batteries.
Imo 12v actually makes LESS sense for a hobbyist DiY’er…..because with occasional use you don’t need ‘lightweight’ and we don’t want stallouts or dirty tearout cuts any more than a pro does huh! The exception is considering cost, simply because some of the tools intended for pro use, tho’ usually excellent quality, are staggeringly expensive. Also of course 12v has power limitations which can be frustrating particularly for drill bit sizes. I’m not talking picture hanging tho’😂
Higher voltage with lower current can deliver the same power with lower resistive losses. This is the primary advantage of higher voltage. There is a secondary advantage in that higher voltage/lower amperage can produce greater starting torque and greater stall torque. Whether or not those are enough to make a useful difference in a given tool is something to look at case by case, there is no general answer.
@@Protoolreviews yep. That’s what I hoped to convey with my final paragraph. P.S. I think you did a good job without getting bogged down in the details.
The Milwaukee M12 FUEL line is just about as powerful as their M18 Non FUEL line, so in my opinion there is no need for the larger tools, except if more power is required.
Great video guys. I do have say though the DeWalt 12v circular saw is awesome. Thing is a beast for it's size and if you're up on a ladder on the side of a house making a cut it's so much easier holding this saw up making that cut ...super light and does the job.
I owned Millwaukee when they had their 14.4v line, then had some dewalt stuff, then Makita 18v (which is still my main gear), but recently got into M12 from Millwaukee... I'm blown away! Ive used power tools for 25 years now. I'm no neophyte. I cannot recommend their M12 line enough! 🤩
I disagree with brown shirt, I get it, manufacturers probably had DIYs and thier wives in mind when they designed 12v, but as the other guy was suggesting, I think it's best use case is comfort, only a professional would know how much power he needs for a job, and not want to carry a heavy tool all day. A DIYer is a home, using it here n there, dont want to start drilling into 1 inch hole into a 4x4 n realize I probably dont have enough power.. the 18v system will get everything that I want done, I dont wana be guessing as a DIYer, as i cannot fathom buying multiples of the same tools, cuz the 1st one was too weak, this is not a business expense. I cannot just forget my tools at church, I need that back!
I used to use 12 and 14 volt tools before 18 and they definitely lasted longer on a charge, my 18 volt makita circular saw will cut thicker full blade timber with 5amp battery than a 3amp
Every brand has their own pros and cons, it depends on the need of the power tools and also the user's budget... Each brand and their type has special goal according to their performance... So, user must be wise enough to choose and buy the power tools.. It's my humble opinion 🙏🏼😉
18v for anyone starting out, this way you have more flexibility in tools without needing to move over to a new platform. Then lower/higher voltages as needed. Need more power; then 40/60v. Tools too heavy to carry all day; lower voltage. This makes the most sense to me
The higher the voltage the faster the battery can both discharge and recharge. I have 80v kobalt/greenworks stuff, and a 80v 2ah can charge in 30min after 20-40min cool down so you can constantly run a 21inch mower for 30 min swapping through 3 batteries if you have lower voltage it takes considerably longer to charge
DIY guy here. I build a lot of stuff with screws and construction lumber. The lumber needs to be pre-drilled, so I like a 12v drill and impact so I don't have to switch bits. But every DIYer should also have a reasonably powerful 20v drill, cause when you need it, you need it. I think most of us would end up (budget permitting) with a mix of 12 and 20 volts.
I bought Milwaukee 28volt system in 2002. I still have some of them and use them daily. I also have 12v and 18v. There is a MASSIVE difference in their capabilities. If you want to do 80% of the work with no issues, get 18v. If you need lightweight and convenience get 12v. If you’re a professional and need the tool to easily get the big jobs done then get the 28v.
I am a big fan of the M12 Fuel system. I have a few of them including the new Fuel multi tool. I had my Milwaukee 18v Fuel hammer drill and impact driver stolen. I had just started a handicap ramp job when some low life broke into the truck and got the 18v system. My HD store did not have the same kit in stock so I grabbed the M12 fuel kit. I built that entire project with the M12 fuel kit. Including using the hammer drill quite a few times Driving a large box of 3" deck screws. Drilling through the 4×4s and joists for the carriage bolts. Driving a bunch of 3.5" lag bolts. The list goes on. I was highly impressed with the power and ability of the M12 Fuel system. This was a large job complete with a landing for a 90° turn to follow ADA guidelines. While the Milwaukee M12 Fuel system is probably not designed for this extreme use I can attest to its ability to carry it out. I highly recommend it. For a home owner that dosen't really need the 18-20 volt systems but wants something that could do anything they wanted, including building a deck. This system is more than capable
I think the optimal level/word you used here is FUEL, or pretty much any tool brand that has a pro grade level. Had you simply bought the Milwaukee brushed, or even their brushless M12 line, I'm wondering if you would have seen the same results? Or if you would have had similar results, but at a little slower pace?
I started out with m18 tools slowly then bought like 2 m12 tools and I realized what an amazing difference it was and I now own more 12v tools but still need the power from a few m18 tools
I definitely disagree with your summation of the usefulness and utilization of 12v 5 3/8” circular saw. I do trim work, occasionally needing to make quick cuts on 1x4, 1x6 or 1x8 boards for casing windows. It’s not for repetitive cuts, but more in line with customization of some sort, e.g. baseboard, headers, window seats, etc. I use a Milwaukee M12 Fuel 5 3/8” Circular Saw, equipped with a 6 amp battery and a Diablo 18 Tooth Fast Framing Blade. There’s plenty of power. It glides through the wood. I’m not using to rip 4 x 8 1/2” sheets of plywood, even though I could…even though I could. Your guest made the comment that when cutting starts 12 volt tools end. I couldn’t disagree more. My Milwaukee M12 Hackzall is a beast. Equipped with a 6”, 9” or 12” Diablo carbide pruning blade I can easily cut 5” to 11” branches or go through dirt to cut out roots. It also cleanly cuts any kind of pipe, with the right blade or overhead carpentry type jobs ranging from those that require finesse to demolition. I have the M18 Hackzall, but my go to for most jobs is the M12. Milwaukee pioneered the recip and packed that technological know how into both of their one handed recips. The new M12 Fuel Oscillating Multitool is amazing. I’d put it up against most competitive 18v or 20v multitools. It’s very powerful. I feel it out performs my Dewalt 20v Max Multitool. It’s quieter, has less vibration, is more powerful and has a better cutting angle. I started in the Milwaukee M12 line with one tool, but gravitated to the M18 tool line, building out my tool collection as needed, filling in and supplementing with M12 tools where it made sense (and sometimes when it didn’t 😉). For instance… I have the Milwaukee the Milwaukee Fuel Gen 3 Impact Driver and the M18 Fuel Surge Impact, however my most used impact is the M12 Fuel 1/4” Hex impact Driver. It’s an awesome light weight and powerful impact, with 1300” pounds of torque and 3300 RPM. Aside from having a lot of power when needed it offers fantastic control, with 4 different speed settings and a variable trigger. I didn’t set put to write a dissertation, but felt I needed to interject real life scenario feedback to comments being made on your channel. There are many tool neophytes that tune into your channel and other tool related channels,that need point counter point, in order to make the best buying decisions possible.
@@cdurkinz, use miter saw for production…of course. However, so I don’t have to run back out to the miter saw, I use a Milwaukee Fuel M12 5 3/8” Circular Saw to fine tune a board for a nice fit.
As a luxury apartment maintenance technician in a building with over 200 units, I’ve learned a 12v, especially the 12v fuel lineup is super useful. Light and almost as powerful as 18v. My 12vs do everything I need, literally from concrete to cabinets. Takes a bit longer but speed isn’t important in our field. Accuracy and precision is. And working hvac as well, it feels great to no longer carry 18v. The bag is heavy enough, 2 pounds makes a difference over time. Only 18v I have is my leaf blower. Even my vacuum is 12v from Milwaukee.
Lols I've been saying from day one ist overkill, started with guys walking around with car batteries in their tool bags. Biggest I went was 14.4 in nicad, when Makita and Dewalt came out with 18 and 20 volt lithium it was a fliipng game changer size wise and run time. I'm thinking of going down to the 12 v max line myself as in all honesty as a tradesman that mainly drives 2 inch screws through fascia boards, alls I need.
One needs 12V, 18-24V, & 48-56V to tailor the tool to the job. Once the voltage is decided one is married to the battery platform. Only invest in permanent magnet (brushless) tools for torque, battery runtime, and non-sparking advantages.
"Nobody's trying to deceive anybody" with regard to DeWalt's battery nomenclature? If that wasn't their intent a lot of people are deceived and the EU didn't let them use the name because of the probable confusion. I say that as a mostly DeWalt power tool guy, that really likes DeWalt power tools, but the 20V brand was meant to deceive and it worked.
The higher voltage means you’re drawing less amps, meaning the wiring and electronics can be sized smaller. So double the voltage instead of using 8 gauge wire you can use 16 gauge (half the size) and have the same amount of resistance. The resistance is what causes the heat.
Hi, new homeowner/DIY'er here. Do higher amps actually FEEL more powerful like with RPM's and longer projects? Thanks.
@@bennygerow if anything it would be the opposite, higher amps mean shorter battery cycles (as well as shorter battery life, the lower the current load the better) and voltage is what determines the speed of a motor (under no load, a motor will spin at a speed which is directly related to the voltage supplied, so a lot of motors come with a kv rating - velocity constant - which is how many RPMs you get per volt.)
However, motor torque is dependent on amps. A motor setup for higher current will have more power and torque overall. Generally, higher voltage is better because of what MondoTV described as well as the above points I mentioned. A 12v (3 cells in series/3S) battery supplying 180w (15A) with the same cells as an 18V (5S) battery supplying 180w (10A) will last 2/3rds as long and generate more heat in the process, degrading the batteries and the rest of the components faster.
8 gauge to 16 gauge is not 'halving the current'. 8 gauge to 12 gauge is the half point (40 amps to 20 amps typical). But I get what you're saying.
Double the voltage, half the amps. Sounds good. But then how many batteries in series-parallel is needed to make the higher voltage. Then it gets heavier.
@@imperialsecuritybureau6037 Higher amperage is beneficial for more power . If you don't need the power go with 12v. If you need more power, go with a higher voltage. Higher amps does not equate to shorter battery cycles. You're confusing amperage with power (Watts)
M12 systems for the sheer fact the 3/8 and 1/2 stubby impacts can fit just about anywhere without the battery smacking everything
Just broke down and bought the 3/8 stubby and it knocked lugnuts off easily
have you used or have the right angle impact? I'm stuck between the m12 and the kobold because the Kobalt does 300 lbs in the reviews.
@@bobthompson4319 I personally have not but I've pulled 350ft lb torqued mast nuts off forklifts with zero issues out of m12 1/2 stubby. I think it's like 1-5/16 socket and it handles it good
@@throughmylens5127 that makes me happy. I just got the stubby 3/8 on sale for 129, waiting for it to ship still, its on backorder. I already have the m18 1/2 impact wrench, I was scared the stubby wouldn't have enough power.
@@bobthompson4319 kobalt is junk that will fall apart
Once a installed 4 rows of seats on a big van (involving drilling and tapping the hardened steel legs of the seats) with only a Bosh 12v drill that are even more compact than those mentioned, and they were brushed the nowadays brushless are even more efficient and powerful.
I have had a 12V cheap mini SDS hammer for a couple of years, maybe not as powerful but powerful enough, light, and comfy, router and multi-tool pretty much the same...best description for 12V is "it'll do, little piggy, it'll do" xD
it was a fascinating professional talk, that i didn't know i needed to hear. thank you
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thank you for titling this video this way. I was having a really tough time trying to find out this information, and when I saw the title of this video, I was like “YES! Finally! That’s what I want to know!” Thanks for making this information easily findable and searchable!
I’m a pro user and have Milwaukee 18 volt system as well as m12 and I have to say I love the size of m12 for most applications and performs very well .
With an 18V hand tool, I'm working work. With a 12V hand tool, I'm working while having fun.
My advice to someone starting out:
1. For hand tools, go with 12V. When you need a particulsr tool with more power, go to 21.6/24V: Flex, Hilti, or Kobalt.
2. Resist the urge to find a single voltage for hand tools and outdoor power equipment; you'll regret it.
18v vs 20v is a royalty issue that companies have to pay milwaukee because of their patent. Thats why they call it 20v not 18v
Most name brand 18 or 20 volt batteries all use five Samsung, LG, or Panasonic, 18650 cells connected in series. These packs measure just over 20 volts fresh off the charger and average about 18 volts over their discharge cycle. They are the exact same pack whether they are rated at 18 or 20 volts. To simplify things I will give both with the nominal voltage in brackets. Milwaukee has the M[18]20 and Dewalt the 20[18]volt MAX. Now isn't that better?
Started with 7.2V then 14.4V to 18V and discovered 12V. Now I use 12V 90% of the time. 12V does not mean less power, power is the combination of voltage and amps or watts. However higher voltage means less amps (for the same power), thus more efficient in using smaller copper wiring, less voltage drop and happy, happy motor. The major advance was going from nicad to lithium. The next generation could be the power of 18V in the size of a 12V battery pack.
For the homeowner that needs to build ikea furniture, the walmart hypertough 12v drill kit for 20 dollars will do everything they they need, forever.
For outdoor power equipment, its obvious who made the right call because they didnt need to make yet another platform for riding mowers. EGO's 56v line takes the cake for all electric OPE, and this is coming from someone who owns ryobi 40v tools. While theres 80v brands like greenworks, EGO still wins in just about every comparison on their 56v.
Milwaukee m12 and m18 are extremely expensive here in the UK, and the m12 fuel hammer drill isn't as small as people like to think. I was going to sell a kidney to buy it but then saw the Dewalt 709 which you call the Atomic but here in England it has metal chuck and is all of 4mm longer than the m12 and to get the most out of that drill you need the higher amp battery which again costs as much as the tool. So after getting a great deal on the hammer drill with 3 battery packs that dictated what platform I use and now I have compact reciprocating saw, impact wrench, multi tool, angle grinder and the portable air compressor which has paid for itself in the first month. I'm now invested in the 18v platform.
Tools aside. It's refreshing to hear people talk about church so comfortably.
It depends I work a lot with metal and cars and heavy capentery and so I need tools wit power.
I think the modern 18v tools are light enough
I'm still alittle confused. Help me out here with one simple answer please. For a homeoner just wanting to occasionally DIY his way around the house, occasionally drill into concrete and shape planks as well. What should i get? - 12v, 18v or 20v?
But isn’t Milwaukee M12 a true nominal 12V? And for lightweight tools that have great runtime, what about Makita LXT 18V sub-compact?
On 12v, no, just closer... Can't really get true 12v with the battery chemistry they use as 3.6v to 3.7v per cell doesn't add up to 12v, just 10.8v to 11.1v before another cell shoots it past 12v... What can be a true 12v are LifePO4 cells, which are what they use for drop in replacements for car batteries, home power walls, etc. as they're 3.2v and get you to 12.8v... You can even use regular 12v chargers on them in most cases, and they're safer to use than most other lithium battery chemistries... But they're bulkier and aren't as power dense than the cells used in tool batteries...
18650 cells are 4v max. Hence 3 cells per pack = 12v max, 5 cells per pack = 20v max. Nominal volts for both will be lower. You can see the outline of the basic 3 cells on the business end of the battery
So glad I upgraded to 20v system! I have 10% more power and you and FEEL it!*
*😂
love the makitas
Very informative
interesting, I figured a little while ago to just stick with one battery platform and chose milwaukee m18. i ended up buying a bunch of non brushless m18 tools in a bundle for a good price and figure when I replace them eventually with the brushless I'd give these away or sell cheap or something. maybe I should look into replacing some of these with the m12, like the impact driver.
i'm in the market for a jig saw and was going to buy an m18 one this weekend, does the m12 jigsaw cut through hardwood easily? I would classify myself as that second level of DIYer - trying to build different things and maybe some furniture from time to time.
The m12 lineup is awesome. But personally if you have a line up of the m18 tools and only want to get one more Milwaukee tool I would get the m18. That way you can just get the tool itself. That way you need to buy a set of m12 batteries as well. The Milwaukee fuel is definitely a great investment to go with if you want a good long lasting tool. The regular Milwaukee works really well as well I used those tools for a long time when I first got into Milwaukee but as I went progressing I got a whole lineup of the Milwaukee fuel tools. And it’s awesome
Just don't expect a jigsaw to cut perfect straight lines, that's for a circular saw.
@@dushk0 already have a table saw and small circular saw. Still need a regular size 7 1/4" circ saw! I ended up getting the m18 jig saw, needed something to cut holes out of wood with
i find 12v tools are the way to go when your working on commercial roofs all day
It’s refreshing to see a transition in the conversation around tools from “I need the biggest, baddest, most powerful tools possible” to “Maybe we just use the tools that make the most sense for the specific application.”
That’s right I love my 12v for my automotive use. Haven’t had the need to upgrade to bigger power yet as I also don’t do suspension or anything really mainly interior work and basic maintenance
@fartpoobox ohyeah you obviously have never tried to use an impact on screws in metal. Bolt heads shear off with a sneeze if you aren't paranoid in how you drive them. Most Bolt heads also not rated for impact shock so you damage them on first drive in.
But most people with your mindset never actually pay attention to who is going to have to pull out those fasteners or take off that hose clamp or in general to any work on any of the stuff you touch after you personally leave.
More power is always better. It’s the capability in a smaller, lighter package that is changing the convo.
@@actualperson9628 yeah no because when I'm taking off 5mm bolts I always say damn why can't I have more than 300ft/lbs of torque.
@fartpoobox ohyeah damn you must be the first person to not strip or shear any bolts in their working experience. Congrats teach us all
When i started my building apprenticeship in the late 70s , the first cordless drill came out, it was the Makita 7.2 cordless drill, it took me 1 mth to pay it off , i still have that drill with 1 battery & charger that came with it, but has now been in retirement over the last 40yrs & have kept it for sentimental reasons only ,it's been my little baby
I actually like the M12 Fuel circular saw for it's light weight and ease of use. Sure it's not as powerful as the M18 Fuel, but as long as your not cutting stacks of lumber, M12 will get the job done just fine.
Emphasis on the "light weight" that's the best part for repeated small jobs
I have the m12 saw been using it for 4 years I do remodeling and handyman work this saw is my go to. I have makita 36v rear handle and standard but the m12 is a beast
I want to get that. I love my m12 tools
I use the m12 saw with the 6amp battery. Even then it's basically a sheet good breakdown saw to kick around the truck just in case. Honestly dont like cutting 2x4s or anything larger with it as it sounds like I'm asking to much of it when it runs.
If I'm onsite no power il use the m18 saw with the 12amp it came with. Rapid charger plugs into the truck.
I know this is sacrilege but still prefer a corded wormdrive for alot of things. I like the torque and that the saw doesnt bog down under load. Some sidewinders rev so high at freespinning they sound like they're going to rattle-fly apart [skilsaw sidewinder] dewalt makes a good sidewinder we've had good with with.
@@martylucas8557 So you just go to the return counter with the item you don't want and ask for a refund? They don't care about the free tool?
I buy m18 because I see my coworkers spending 3 minutes to cut one peice of conduit with there m12 while talking about how it gets the job done the same. The Sawzall kinda depends on the blade but fresh blade to fresh blade it feels like I'm cutting atleast twice as fast vs. The m12. The bandsaw seems like 3 or 4 times faster. Don't even get me started on holesaws on those tiny m12 drills.
The higher voltage bandsaws also have larger openings which makes them MUCH more flexible.
I buy what I need when it’s on special haha. 20V and 12V whatever I see works best! I have no preference, if I could I’d have ever tool lol!
Yeah but having multiple battery packs to worry about kinda sucks. Right now I have Dewalt 20v, Hitachi 18v, Milwaukee 12v, Ryobi 18v, ego 56v and snapper, can't remember what the snapper runs at but I think it's 52v or around there.
I wish someone made a battery adapter that actually worked.
@@thebigdoghimself Dude yes - I got M12, Dewalt, Ryobi 18v, Ryobi 40v, Craftsman, Rigid. Geez... it's getting out of hand.
Same, I got dewalt 12v max, 20v max, 18v. Milwaukee 12v. And snap-on 18v. Kinda irritating at times with the different batteries and chargers
Ha, Ha, Ha, Y’all’s story is similarly to mine ! What ever was on sale! And a good deal! Started with Milwaukee m-12 all ready had DeWalt drill, then Kobalt came in to the pitcher have about 12 tools from them ! Bosh freak went on sale had to have that ! Now I’m thinking 🤔 about Makita, from watching RUclips videos , i think 🤔 maybe collecting tools has become a hobby, rather than actually using the dam tools!
so, you're a disorganised money waster. got it
For a small engine mechanic like me, 12V is ideal because you can run many (but not all) screws, bolts, & nuts down without accidentally stripping them from over tightening. Plus, most fasteners can be removed easily with 12V.
There is a thing called clutch on drills, you know
To be honest most good 12v impacts will carry you pretty well through MOST automotive applications. I've used a m12 stubby to remove rusty old motor mount bolts on a f150. And the m18 high torque carries me all the way through kingpins and lug nuts on class 7/8 trucks
I'm also a small engine technician and that DeWalt 12v 1/4" screwdriver is my go to for 90% of the stuff I do as I handle most of the handheld ope. The adjustable chuck works like a fast and dirty torque wrench, the lack of impact is safer on plastic/delicate components and it's so compact when you're working in tight spots like snowblowers and lawnmowers.
if you work on ANY engines, the M12 Stubby impact wrench is KING
@@shadeshiest22 DCF850 3/8" converted with a 1.7ah powerstack is king.
I think for most DIY projects you really only need a cordless drill and/or driver. Corded cutting tools are more than sufficient for most homeowners, since they are by definition working around the house they will generally have access to a plug
DIYers that want to go the premium brand option when it comes to drills and impact drivers, go for the Milwaukee M12 Fuel.
If you can afford/justify the luxury, having both 12v and 18v platforms is phenomenal. Certain tools are well suited to either voltage. M12 and Makita LXT are my go to, and I break out each set equally as often and can tailor to the task I'm about to go perform
I have Makita LXT, love it, but jumping into m12 for the rotary tool. Thinking about splurging for the installation drill/driver. Any other standout m12 tools that you feel fills in gaps in the Makita lineup?
Hydraulic impact driver is a real pleasure to use, if you have the option. The new 3d laser is also a must if you are in the market for one.
For my work, being a electrician, the compact bandsaw, right angle impact/impact wrench/ drill are really doing the trick
You should check out the newer m18 fuel impact guns. It has 4 settings. It's basically a multi impact of some sort.
@@mischavanengelen5343 I don't like the m18 fuel hydraulic impact. It has half the rpms, and half the max torque compared to the non hydraulic. I don't know if the hydraulic one has the multiple power settings that the non hydraulic has either. Mine can ram it home or be beautifully delicate.
"Like a leaf on the wind" - serenity
So I’m going to disagree with what you guys said about what most home owners need. Most home owners don’t have or need 30 different battery powered tools. I would say that most only need a small drill and maybe an impact driver. They also don’t generally need tons of power. Look at most consumer based tools. Black and decker and such. They are largely 3/8 drive drills that aren’t too fast or too strong. I would say most home owners would be thrilled with the power and usability of dewalt or Milwaukee
You do realize that both Milwaukee and DeWalt make an entry level, dare I say home owner grade and even a pro-sumer grade/level tool, just below their top of the line tools, like their FUEL (or which ever sticker is on the DeWalt, depending on which store you're buying it from, as they're too confusing). Lithium Brushed, Brushless, FUEL. Each one has their price point and performance rating/output.
You: *Statement*
Me: 👁️👄👁️ 25+ Ryobi collection I use all around the house from yard to vehicles
@@mannyvalero3250 you: an outlier
Him: what MOST homeowners need
@@bennygerow dude, there's a good reason that Ryobi sells a ton of multi tool sets every Christmas and father's day. If "dad" or "mom" is even marginally diy inclined they're going to have at least half a dozen tools.
Now, you can play that elitist, gatekeeping, I know better than a homeowner what they need, bullshit all you want; but this pretty fucking easy to start justifying buying those tools once you've got s good battery platform. Ryobi alone, I own an angle grinder, an inflator, a recip-saw, three Bluetooth radio/speakers, a caulking gun, a flashlight; am considering a trim router (Ryobi or Ridgid), a Dremel style tool, etc.
Ryobi, and by extension Hart, have a very good idea what the average home owner can actually use and need.
A homeowner, diyer often needs some sort of saw/s in addition to drill drivers. Plus ope and an assortment of other hoysehold things which may run on the same platform. Like inflator, blower, lights, radio, fan, inverter/charger.
We run a farm. We use power tools a lot and are hard on them. I used Dewalt for a long time and then began to invest in the Milwaukee platform. Started with the intention of doing all M18, somehow I ended up with M12 impact and drill. I was sold after a few uses. The M12 does most of the stuff we need. A few exceptions are we have M18 impact and 18 grinder. The M12 platform is unbelievable powerful and reliable.
You guys missed something--the motor on my M12 impact driver is actually BIGGER than my M18. For a long time I stayed away from 12v tools, because there used to be a huge power difference between 12v and 18v. But with new lithium batteries and brushless motors, the gap between the two is much smaller than it used to be.
@Craig Dendy I actually would like you hear what you are getting at here.
But I have seen reviews of all the brushless, and the power difference is still large between the less and more powerful tools. The motor isnt everything. Being able to push more power into them is everything.
And a bigger motor can mean less efficient. Its all dependent on the architecture.
but yeah, the power source means so much, which is the whole point of needing more volts or amps.
I stand by my m18 fuel impact gun (non hydraulic)
2,000 rpm, 2,000in/lb max torque.
Yet it has 4 settings, so it can do perfect little baby taps and stops itself.
If you splurge the extra money for the my key version. You can go on your smartphone and dial in it's torque value making it like an auto torque wrench... plus it has anti theft features.
The next model will probably have a human attatched!
As a counter play on the Olympics Motto I expect power cordless hand tools to evolve “Smaller, Lighter, Stronger”. The latest M12 Fuel brushless line is a good case in point. Sure, if you’re an iron worker 80 volts and magnetic capture is spot on. For many of us, as so clearly stated in a majority of the comments throughout, nimble, precise, manageable are the watchwords. Bigger is better for pure Miller Time boasting is a fading tradition.
I love that I can watch this channel and not be afraid my family might walk in and hear or see something inappropriate. Thanks PTR! Great info today also.
I love that I can watch whatever I want and not worry about what my family thinks about a little bit of drill or hammer humor. Wild.
…and over hearing guys comparing the size of their tools is absolutely not going to be misconstrued….of course😂
Right on I hate the senseless vulgarity in today's creatures
i love that i am not in debt cos my wife is constantly trying to keep up with the jones's, or divorcing me and taking half my shit and the kids when she meets someone who earns $2 an hour more.
have fun with that blue-pill bullshit.
freedom>family
I have Dewalt 20v and Milwaukee M12. I generally reach for the M12 fuel. In fact , like this morning, I only reached for my 20v impact because I could not remember where I left my m12 impact.
I have a couple m18 drills, a bunch of m12 stuff, and a ryobi set I bought because I needed a bunch of power tools and it was cheap. I've used the ryobi stuff a handful of times, im always using my milwaukee tools
As a electrician that always had 18v Milwaukee and DeWalt, recently I switched to Milwaukee 12v and to a guy climbing a ladder or in a crawl space 12v is a game changer. My opinion is that the right tool for the job is based on the job at hand and it's location.
10:20 he nails it! Thank you! I've been saying this forever when I hear the 18v/20v debate come up.......why doesn't 12v bother people the same way?
As a sparky, the m12 fuel bandsaw all day over the m18!
Fellow sparky I had the m18 fuel band saw and it was so freaking large and heavy it was a massive pain to carry around. Switched it with the smaller fuel metal cutting circ saw.
I can agree somewhat with augmenting with 12v tools in certain instances of very tight spacing in specialty trades such as hvac/service techs/plumbing. Personally, after 38 years as a master carpenter/builder by trade, and a "can fix almost anything" guy in my off time, I have never found anything that i couldn't use my 18v Milwaukee tools for through judicious use of adapters/extensions/swivels that I couldn't accomplish using hand tools. To me the lack of power and versatility in a 12v tool doesn't justify the added cost and headache of having to buy, carry, and maintain them.
Yea, same here. plus I have to have a second type of battery...
@@marcburns508 Yeah, this idea of going 12v seems to be for people who dont mind taking up extra space and cost having 2 versions of each tool, just because one is 2 pounds lighter and a tiny bit smaller.
I sympathize, but everybody is admitting 12v is only good for most things, not all.
So its nice to have if you dont mind using the extra space or cost, but this discussion would be less edgy if they changed the title to something more suggestive instead of demanding.
Yeah, 12v isnt bad at all, but I mainly need these when traveling for work, and I prefer a tool that does it all, instead of that only does most. But thats just me. If you have a shop, I get it. Space and cost dont matter as much.
As someone who maintains 16 properties and does everything from plumbing, moderate carpentry, hvac, and electrical I love my 12v tools for the light weight, compact size in my bag and general ergonomics. Also helps I got an insane deal on a 4 tool m12 fuel tool set but I’m not complaining
I started with Makita 9.6 volt a long time ago.
My father who just turned 71 had his makita 9.6v die. I replaced it with the dewalt xtreme 12v because of it's size and weight. For what he does now, it was a logical choice. Price and power made perfect sense for a reolacement.
I couldn't imagine using 12v for what I do. My m18 tools time out when I use them. Angle grinders, hackzalls, bandsaws, and drills when mixing masonry. 12v wouldn't be able to do the job.
Exactly
@@rch5991 I can't imagine milwaukee expecting their 4.5/5" m18 grinder being used by a mobile welder. I thought maybe I was pushing too hard, so I lightened up after letting the tool sit for a while. It still timed out after a couple minutes. They need to work on that. The only real reason I have milwaukee tools is because their massive variety. I do have to say, my son dropped my drill into a bucket of water. Fried the 4.0 battery, but after it dried out the drill worked just fine if not better.
Everyone wants the biggest and baddest until they can’t get into tight spots. I just bought into the M12 bc of this reason.
Excellent discussion 👍 I'm on the DeWalt platform and have tools on all 3 lines. 12v, 20v, & 60v...love them all. 12v is definitely the go to nowadays. Only pull out the bigger tools when they are actually needed.
I love my m12 propress tool. Residential plumbing rarely goes above 1 1/4' and the 3" m12 cutoff tool is perfect for cutting old rotten cast iron.
I have to say, the Milwaukee 12v Sawzall should only be used in desperate situations, it just doesn't cut fast enough.
Seems to be you guys are saying if you have 20v tools its nice to have 12v for the lighter work (punchouts) but my takeaway is you can do ALL your work with 20v only but not the other way around... if you have a 12v tool platform you also NEED the higher voltage system for getting you through a whole day doing hard work.
Just my 2volts...
😎👍☘️🍺
I’m using M12 for automotive work, M18 for most construction. I have a few M12 to use around the house, and I carry M12 in our RV for on-the-go tools. Both are great whatever way you slice it.
I've found my M12 circular saw great in certain situations. When framing up structures it's not the greatest for constant cuts of 2x lumber, but if your working overhead or on a roof and need to make a quick cut it's incredibly convenient.
Needs a gen 2 with a rafter hook . Because it's so small and convenient I usually carry it up a ladder in a roof situation
I found my m18 non fuel 6.5" skill saw to be a piece of trash with a bent baseplate.
I stand by m18 fuel products. I haven't looked @ the skill saw but I bet it's good. I've seen 2 in the wild just never give it a run down. It's a full size 7 1/4" though.
My m18 fuel impact is frigging crazy! It has 4 settings, can be super delicate and stop itself, or like a mama bear, or papa bear mode! And a self tapping setting that stops it from impacting until it drills through.
The my key version you can go on your phone and set the torque value, and it has anti theft, but it's an extra 100 bucks...
I have M12 tools, but bought the new Gen4 M18 hammer drill. reason: Antikickback.
Loved the discussion guys.
As a commercial electrician I use both. M12 for running Tek screws and fasteners all day plus the subcompact bandsaw for pipe. I use the M18 for task lighting, circular saw, full size bandsaw, hammer drill, drill and impact for driving into wood, concrete or things like 1/2" concrete anchors.
I couldn't do without my M18's but my M12's really save on my body and space for the low demand repetitious tasks.
I think DIY was meant to describe anyone who does a project over hiring a professional. With that in mind I'd think 18v for DIY. For anyone looking for the ability to drill holes and hang pictures, TV's, ECT, things that don't constitute DIY, then they can get a cheap drill from Walmart.
Thanks for the excellent overview. I've been wondering which system to choose and this helps.
As for system voltage affecting heat produced in the battery cells: Oddly, reconfiguring a pack for higher voltage does not reduce the current or heat produced per cell for a given load.
For example imagine a 360 Watt load using 10 cells.
At 36V the 360W load is carried by one string of 10 cells, current per cell (and string) is 10 amps.
At 18V it requires 20 amps to get the same 360W power. This is shared by two parallel strings of 5 cells each, so the current per string is still 10 Amps.
Higher voltage does reduce the current in the wiring, electronics and motor, so the real advantage is in the balance of system. A primary disadvantage of higher voltage is the increased cost of the Battery Management System.
Now if only we could freely swap different brands of batteries, then I would feel like the manufacturers cared about us customers. :-)
@@Protoolreviews I'm not 100% sure, but I've heard that in Europe, that's exactly what they're implementing. So I guess that it could happen
@@Protoolreviews 😂
Sorry I paused @ 9 Min to write this.
You forgot about the corded tools. I am fan of 12v tools and I am not professional. What I use the most is drill and driver so its convenient to have a cordless one but that doesn't mean all my tools need to be cordless.
Circular saw is good for DIY but you wouldn't need to get a cordless one.
It is your place and you can arrange your place to be convenient to corded tools for your small projects.
Thanks
Well, the discussion was about batteries and how different voltages compare. So why would they mention corded when that doesn't factor into the discussion? Discussion wasn't about all possible tools, otherwise they could add regular hand tools too. For small cuts, quick jobs, they can be even faster and more convenient... Video would be up to multiple times longer if they covered everything... Hardly practical or relevant to what they were discussing...
@@ZeoCyberG you are right and they don't need to discuss about corded one but when they want to recommend a cordless tools for DIYers they need to take in consideration corded and hand tools.
They tried to mention that when they said you are not DIYers any more when you need to start make cuts.
Which was not exactly what they meant. The statement should have been. You are not DIYers anymore when you need to have a cordless tools for these issues which mean its more than what homeowners will be willing to do.
I hope my idea reached you.
Thank you for you comment :)
This Is Really Bizarre. I had to double and triple check the date of this video. I just bought the m12 hammer drill, driver and stubby impact three days ago. As an engineer, working around 12v on the regular, I just feel stupid I didnt realize these tools were up to the task sooner. I am a burly guy but I have been lugging around all this extra weight and bulk for no reason. LOL
@@Protoolreviews The logic is undeniable!!!
I use m12 stuff for the tool box in my truck. M12 hatchet, fuel drill, fuel impact, 3/8's stubby, 3/8s fuel ratchet, 5 1/2 circular saw, jig saw, recip and multi tool. All fit in 2 ridgid brand small tool boxes and still take up no room in my truck bed. The m12 circular saw works pretty good. I use it all the time.
I started out at 16 with m12 and now am 19 and still use m12 and love it I work as a tech on forklifts but work on my home all time on remodeling my house and I have m12 tools out the Wazzu now for everything and does everything I need
Extra: Yeah in the US DeWalt (especially) like to make the tool look to be more powerful by quoting the full charge voltage. However, DeWalt in UK label their tools at the nominal 18v, but they are exactly the same. Why?…Lithium cells are individually nominally 3.7v, but read 4.2v fully charged. So a five cell pack is nominally 18.5v but 21v straight off the charger! When your 18 or 20v labeled drill runs low it is more like 15v. Solid state batteries are gonna change the game again…..
I really like my Makita 18V subcompact set. I would like a few of the 12v cxt line to get a few of the nice light tools such as the ones named: drill, impact, one hand recip, and multitool. The 12v tools are usually a little cheaper too.
Too long. Please keep the videos short and get straight to the point.
Thanks for posting 🙏🏼
I'm a huge fan of the M12 Fuel tools. Like you said, I love being able to have all my main tools together in one bag, plus bits, extra batteries, etc. and have it still be very manageable. They're just so capable now. Hell I ran a 5" hole saw through multiple sheets of 3/4" plywood today to run a heating stack up through an 8 story building. Granted I would normally grab the corded hole hawg for something like that and just tear through it, but it wasn't available, so I made due with my M12 Fuel Hammer Drill/Driver (god bless that 1/2 chuck). Sure it was definitely hot by the end, but so was the M18 being run right next to me.
I just get a kick out of the instances where someone that's only ever used M18 tools calls my M12 setup "cute" or says that "their daughter would love that" and then I proceed to keep right up with them on just about any task at hand. As a plumber currently roughing in new apartments that are framed with steel studs and tracking I rarely come across anything that my M12 kit can't handle. The only M18 tool that I'd really like to pick up is the Fuel Sawzall. I love my fuel hackzall, but let's be honest it's not meant to be cutting through thick steel angle iron or anything like that, at least not in any reasonable amount of time. Yep, I'm a Milwaukee guy. Could you tell? Haha.
The problem isn't the drill can't keep up, it's the amp-hours of battery life are so small on the compact batteries we tend to use with them that you need four of them with you when you climb a ladder.
@@mytuberforyou that’s true, that’s why I use the 4.0 and 6.0 batteries in everything but the impact driver. That one I normally just run the little 2.0 compact in. Their regular brushed multi tool definitely chews through even the xc batteries real quick but I’ve never needed 4 batteries for a trip up the ladder lol
The fuel m18 hackzall is one of my favourite tools. Weighted better then the sawzall model
@@UnifiedInfo Haven't had the opportunity to try out the M18 version yet but I love my M12 fuel hackzall too. Like you said, the weight balance, compared to trying to one hand the sawzall, is unbeatable
I've been using the m12 circular saw for about 6 months now and love the little thing but sometimes it would be nice for it to be a little bigger so it could do 45s in inch and a half material. Pretty much the only reason for the 18 volt saw in the truck
M12 has gotten more powerful then 18V tools used to be where now 18V tools are most often overkill and are best used as a backup option instead of yhe daily go to
That's exactly what I use my M18 tools for.
60v is also the cutoff in existing rules and regulations between low voltage and high voltage, 60v is also the max on a lot of readily available economical electronic components, stepping above 60v is a big jump in manufacturing cost
Good to know thanks
Greenworks is the only one I know of that is higher, at 80v
We have a M12 drill at work and it's total bullcrap..
The m12 line has a ton of tools, I hang my drill and impact from my pocket and can move around freely without pulling my shit down. Plenty of power in a small package. Hard to beat it. Other brands try but my 12v dewalt died, my Bosch 12v was too weak. The m18 sit in the box and still look brand new lol
As a new homeowner I had to start getting into DIY projects and landed on M12 Fuel drill/driver kit with free multitool and they have been great...been able to use a 1/2" bit on the hammer drill to drill into concrete for a gate drop rod. So far I'm really digging the M12 Fuel line so I may go for a few of the other tools in the line (have my eye on the hackzawl) but for anything I need more power for I'm going corded i.e. circular saw. For home use I don't see the benefit of going all in to a battery line when corded works just fine if not better.
I've been looking at the m12 and m18 hakzall im stuck idk what to get
The m18 fuel hackzall is nice and smooth compared to the m18 non fuel one. Also more powerful.
I suggest m18 fuel products. My impact is next level with 4 modes from delicate to wild and a self tapping screw setting. The hammer drill is a hammer drill when needed and has a nice optional handle if things are critical. The multi tool is variable speed with great power, I'm normally running on #4. And they all work with my compressor, skill saw, blower, sucker, hackzall.
I do think for home use though. The m12 fuel is probably great.
I will say though. Only buy fuel. I bought a non fuel skill saw I don't like (baseplate warped) cheap flat metal with no structure. And a non fuel m12 drill. Rotates so slow I want to throw it in the drink. Wouldn't use it on my bicycle (it's intended use!) Gave it to my aunt for her home kit as it slightly beats using a screw driver, slightly.
Here’s my view, I’m a landscape contractor and I use The Dewalt hammer drill with an auger for planting, and I own the equivalent Milwaukee and it won’t drive the auger in the ground.
I have Makita 18v and milwaukee 12v. I use them all nearly every day.
Same here. I’m off today, and have no home projects so I’ll think I’ll walk around with the m12 hackzall and cut branches that really don’t have to be cut so I can get my tool high in for the day.
I find that sometimes I'm more productive with a 12 volt tool because of the lighter weight and comfort of use
This doesn't prove that 12v are better than 18v/18v-but-mislabelled-as-20v-for-marketing-purposes, it just proves that you guys prefer smaller, less powerful tools for the sort of work you do.
Industrial maintenance tech. Bought impact driver (m12) because the other guy seemed to have no trouble from his. I don’t know how I’ve done my line of work since 99 and refused to give battery powered, other than drills, a chance. Now I won’t be without. M18 is next. I’m a tool nerd, geek, addict and it has pissed my wallet off at me more than once. It hasn’t talked to me all week. I can tear shit down that ppl struggle making a 1/2 in” drive ratchet and deep well fit good and come off excruciatingly slow. But I think my co-worker started a trend. He set it up and I hit go and now everyone but Carl has one. He wants one but his wife lays down the law with a reverberating “NO”! But he is a lazy fuck anyway. He would probably eat the driver because it would remind him of strawberry cheesecake.
That's classic Carl right there
Normal day to day at work I run 18volt need the run time and the extra power. My personal automotive impacts and ratchets are 12 volt due to the nature of cars being tight spaces. So it really depends on your situation
I'm a milawakee guy and my take is 12 volt for small stuff like ratchet and, impact driver, and M18 for hammer drill and Grinders and impact wrench and bigger stuff and yes the m12 impact driver is perfect, maby not for big lag bolts and stuff but right tool for the right job
This was very informative and well explained, took a lot of my battery size confusion and made it easier to understand from the user side of the equation. Thank You
Is anyone using LFP (LiFePO4 or LiFeMnPO4) cells in their battery packs, to make them last longer?
I don't like disposable tools. I have my dad's Black & Decker 1/4" drill, and it still works fine (though the cord has been replaced). He died in 1962. I want tools that are designed to work *_forever._* I understand that even LFP batteries won't work for 62 years, but they'll do better than the typical NMC lithium batteries.
Imo 12v actually makes LESS sense for a hobbyist DiY’er…..because with occasional use you don’t need ‘lightweight’ and we don’t want stallouts or dirty tearout cuts any more than a pro does huh! The exception is considering cost, simply because some of the tools intended for pro use, tho’ usually excellent quality, are staggeringly expensive. Also of course 12v has power limitations which can be frustrating particularly for drill bit sizes. I’m not talking picture hanging tho’😂
Higher voltage with lower current can deliver the same power with lower resistive losses. This is the primary advantage of higher voltage. There is a secondary advantage in that higher voltage/lower amperage can produce greater starting torque and greater stall torque. Whether or not those are enough to make a useful difference in a given tool is something to look at case by case, there is no general answer.
@@Protoolreviews yep. That’s what I hoped to convey with my final paragraph.
P.S. I think you did a good job without getting bogged down in the details.
The Milwaukee M12 FUEL line is just about as powerful as their M18 Non FUEL line, so in my opinion there is no need for the larger tools, except if more power is required.
18V for new construction/heavy duty use. 12V got finish/service work. They're for different things
That's right much agree 👍
Well said
I think Dewalt went to 20V max to distinguish it from their 18v NiCad system.
*meanwhile me with 8.4v ryobi tools that are older then me*
@@Protoolreviews And still works, saving a small fortune on the upgrade race...
I started with the Black and Decker 7.2v versapack lineup. Those were very handy and wish they would come out with an updated version.
Great video guys. I do have say though the DeWalt 12v circular saw is awesome. Thing is a beast for it's size and if you're up on a ladder on the side of a house making a cut it's so much easier holding this saw up making that cut ...super light and does the job.
I guess you haven't tried milwaukee and dewalt 12v circular saws.
I use m18 every day at work but I'm really thinking about getting m12 drill driver and multi tool
No, don't bring religion into a tool show please
Watching uneducated people talking about basic engineering and not getting it completely right, as an engineer, is some good entertainment.
I work with hundreds of engineers daily. Watching them complain about things that don't matter in the real world is good entertainment.
I owned Millwaukee when they had their 14.4v line, then had some dewalt stuff, then Makita 18v (which is still my main gear), but recently got into M12 from Millwaukee... I'm blown away!
Ive used power tools for 25 years now. I'm no neophyte. I cannot recommend their M12 line enough! 🤩
I disagree with brown shirt, I get it, manufacturers probably had DIYs and thier wives in mind when they designed 12v, but as the other guy was suggesting, I think it's best use case is comfort, only a professional would know how much power he needs for a job, and not want to carry a heavy tool all day. A DIYer is a home, using it here n there, dont want to start drilling into 1 inch hole into a 4x4 n realize I probably dont have enough power.. the 18v system will get everything that I want done, I dont wana be guessing as a DIYer, as i cannot fathom buying multiples of the same tools, cuz the 1st one was too weak, this is not a business expense. I cannot just forget my tools at church, I need that back!
I used to use 12 and 14 volt tools before 18 and they definitely lasted longer on a charge, my 18 volt makita circular saw will cut thicker full blade timber with 5amp battery than a 3amp
Every brand has their own pros and cons, it depends on the need of the power tools and also the user's budget... Each brand and their type has special goal according to their performance... So, user must be wise enough to choose and buy the power tools.. It's my humble opinion 🙏🏼😉
18v for anyone starting out, this way you have more flexibility in tools without needing to move over to a new platform. Then lower/higher voltages as needed. Need more power; then 40/60v. Tools too heavy to carry all day; lower voltage.
This makes the most sense to me
The higher the voltage the faster the battery can both discharge and recharge. I have 80v kobalt/greenworks stuff, and a 80v 2ah can charge in 30min after 20-40min cool down so you can constantly run a 21inch mower for 30 min swapping through 3 batteries if you have lower voltage it takes considerably longer to charge
The M12 charger is trash.
DIY guy here. I build a lot of stuff with screws and construction lumber. The lumber needs to be pre-drilled, so I like a 12v drill and impact so I don't have to switch bits. But every DIYer should also have a reasonably powerful 20v drill, cause when you need it, you need it. I think most of us would end up (budget permitting) with a mix of 12 and 20 volts.
I bought Milwaukee 28volt system in 2002. I still have some of them and use them daily. I also have 12v and 18v. There is a MASSIVE difference in their capabilities. If you want to do 80% of the work with no issues, get 18v. If you need lightweight and convenience get 12v. If you’re a professional and need the tool to easily get the big jobs done then get the 28v.
Bosch has ruled the 12v game for a while (but let's not talk about their Orbital Sander 😆 🤣 ... they made up for it with their 18v.).
I am a big fan of the M12 Fuel system. I have a few of them including the new Fuel multi tool. I had my Milwaukee 18v Fuel hammer drill and impact driver stolen. I had just started a handicap ramp job when some low life broke into the truck and got the 18v system. My HD store did not have the same kit in stock so I grabbed the M12 fuel kit. I built that entire project with the M12 fuel kit. Including using the hammer drill quite a few times
Driving a large box of 3" deck screws. Drilling through the 4×4s and joists for the carriage bolts. Driving a bunch of 3.5" lag bolts.
The list goes on.
I was highly impressed with the power and ability of the M12 Fuel system. This was a large job complete with a landing for a 90° turn to follow ADA guidelines.
While the Milwaukee M12 Fuel system is probably not designed for this extreme use I can attest to its ability to carry it out. I highly recommend it. For a home owner that dosen't really need the 18-20 volt systems but wants something that could do anything they wanted, including building a deck. This system is more than capable
I think the optimal level/word you used here is FUEL, or pretty much any tool brand that has a pro grade level. Had you simply bought the Milwaukee brushed, or even their brushless M12 line, I'm wondering if you would have seen the same results? Or if you would have had similar results, but at a little slower pace?
I started out with m18 tools slowly then bought like 2 m12 tools and I realized what an amazing difference it was and I now own more 12v tools but still need the power from a few m18 tools
I definitely disagree with your summation of the usefulness and utilization of 12v 5 3/8” circular saw. I do trim work, occasionally needing to make quick cuts on 1x4, 1x6 or 1x8 boards for casing windows. It’s not for repetitive cuts, but more in line with customization of some sort, e.g. baseboard, headers, window seats, etc. I use a Milwaukee M12 Fuel 5 3/8” Circular Saw, equipped with a 6 amp battery and a Diablo 18 Tooth Fast Framing Blade. There’s plenty of power. It glides through the wood. I’m not using to rip 4 x 8 1/2” sheets of plywood, even though I could…even though I could.
Your guest made the comment that when cutting starts 12 volt tools end. I couldn’t disagree more. My Milwaukee M12 Hackzall is a beast. Equipped with a 6”, 9” or 12” Diablo carbide pruning blade I can easily cut 5” to 11” branches or go through dirt to cut out roots. It also cleanly cuts any kind of pipe, with the right blade or overhead carpentry type jobs ranging from those that require finesse to demolition. I have the M18 Hackzall, but my go to for most jobs is the M12. Milwaukee pioneered the recip and packed that technological know how into both of their one handed recips.
The new M12 Fuel Oscillating Multitool is amazing. I’d put it up against most competitive 18v or 20v multitools. It’s very powerful. I feel it out performs my Dewalt 20v Max Multitool. It’s quieter, has less vibration, is more powerful and has a better cutting angle.
I started in the Milwaukee M12 line with one tool, but gravitated to the M18 tool line, building out my tool collection as needed, filling in and supplementing with M12 tools where it made sense (and sometimes when it didn’t 😉). For instance… I have the Milwaukee the Milwaukee Fuel Gen 3 Impact Driver and the M18 Fuel Surge Impact, however my most used impact is the M12 Fuel 1/4” Hex impact Driver. It’s an awesome light weight and powerful impact, with 1300” pounds of torque and 3300 RPM. Aside from having a lot of power when needed it offers fantastic control, with 4 different speed settings and a variable trigger.
I didn’t set put to write a dissertation, but felt I needed to interject real life scenario feedback to comments being made on your channel. There are many tool neophytes that tune into your channel and other tool related channels,that need point counter point, in order to make the best buying decisions possible.
You use a circular saw for casings? 🤔 They make miter saws that do that a little better ya know.
@@cdurkinz, use miter saw for production…of course. However, so I don’t have to run back out to the miter saw, I use a Milwaukee Fuel M12 5 3/8” Circular Saw to fine tune a board for a nice fit.
As a luxury apartment maintenance technician in a building with over 200 units, I’ve learned a 12v, especially the 12v fuel lineup is super useful. Light and almost as powerful as 18v. My 12vs do everything I need, literally from concrete to cabinets. Takes a bit longer but speed isn’t important in our field. Accuracy and precision is. And working hvac as well, it feels great to no longer carry 18v. The bag is heavy enough, 2 pounds makes a difference over time. Only 18v I have is my leaf blower. Even my vacuum is 12v from Milwaukee.
Lols I've been saying from day one ist overkill, started with guys walking around with car batteries in their tool bags. Biggest I went was 14.4 in nicad, when Makita and Dewalt came out with 18 and 20 volt lithium it was a fliipng game changer size wise and run time. I'm thinking of going down to the 12 v max line myself as in all honesty as a tradesman that mainly drives 2 inch screws through fascia boards, alls I need.
One needs 12V, 18-24V, & 48-56V to tailor the tool to the job. Once the voltage is decided one is married to the battery platform. Only invest in permanent magnet (brushless) tools for torque, battery runtime, and non-sparking advantages.
"Nobody's trying to deceive anybody" with regard to DeWalt's battery nomenclature? If that wasn't their intent a lot of people are deceived and the EU didn't let them use the name because of the probable confusion. I say that as a mostly DeWalt power tool guy, that really likes DeWalt power tools, but the 20V brand was meant to deceive and it worked.