@@Hasselroeder (troll? or plain curiosity?).... [clears throat] Anyways: 'salvation' from the [Light] and Life. Obviously as a metaphor those *[Pyramids]* using such a Good news of a word, like 'Salvation', as a mock insult Against the [Light], 'us', Humanity, 'our' allies, etc as if the *[Darkness] [ITSELF]* isn't terrifyingly enough.
In case you are wondering, actual Russians tried to translate what Rasputin was saying, and first of all, it was in reverse, so they had to reverse the audio to hear it normally. No, he did not say "Are you threatening me?' No, he did not say "Darkness" No, he did not say anything in english, it was reverse Russian like usual. He said, in reverse-russian, "I always..." Before being cut off.
Highly unlikely , its akin to calus philosophy. But darkness has it out for us , since the traveller likes humanity and the creation of gaurdians was unforeseen. Rasputin is just gearing up for the next war against darkness.
@@xyperus Like Eris said: "Together or Separate.". either 'we'll' (and many of those who would ally with the [Light], Guardians and Humanity or 'neutrals') Fight Together Against *[IT],* or (for Many here's sakes) die in separate Fronts. (Though preferring fhe former instead. It's much easier, yes?).
If the Exo Stranger ever comes back there's the fact that if I recall correctly, Rasputin had at least one conversation with her and knew about her time hopping.
Or, it was just too early for the Destiny writers back then to come up with anything that made sense, so they had the Exo Stranger barf out some mysterious mumbo-jumbo, without having any real vision behind it. Seriously, look up how much the original Destiny story was retconned, the poor writers were scrambling to make something, anything, up from the retcon.
I would think hers and other characters that 'we' know of ([Hard stare at the one below back home, in the West side....]) are very much Not aligned together though. Sadly she would have (due to her long periods of being a 'surfer' through the Vex Timestream) to do, but Last thing she would do is Siding with *[IT].*
@@jakespacepiratee3740 we are rebuilding, slowly and tense. But without Constant 'oversight' by both groups.... Best Not to be lax in having bungie keep on falling down to the same mistakes.
@@jakespacepiratee3740 I dunno, I think they could do more with the stranger, she is from a point in time where the Vex pose the greatest threat, the Darkness is a more immediate threat but the Vex are trying to write themselves into the laws of the universe so they can't be killed. I think the stranger's story could continue.
I love how everyone says Rasputin is saying "are you threatening me?" as the door closes but they all seem to forget he's never done anything (in D1 and D2) besides speak strictly in Russian.
Neutrually agreeable but unfortunately.... 1. Gameplay restrictions which too affect other characters' feats. Including 'our' Gameplay-Guardian-player characters. 2. he does have his moments (do not take this the wrong way coming from me....) but are blocked off in Lore texts only. Though if he does show some Golden Age planetary ordnances that he has kept then it would be powerful to see. And worrying.... (Of course, he isn't the Only one). [glances back to the Guardian Warlock on the screen, still aiming his [Garden Progeny 01]]
Completely unrelated but I absolutely love Bungies choice to name the Warmind Rasputin, the dude was from Russia (the actual individual) and while his legend is fairly common knowledge anyone unfamiliar should look up the name behind the legend. He survived like 5-6 assassination attempts (mostly poisoning) where he even drank it and lived and was given even more and was not phased. They tried so many times to kill him and most of the plans where successful (as in they played out as intended) but he just never died. The man was made a legend for the last assassination attempt he was shot in the head point blank and thrown into a river (to remove the body) during Russian winter when they found his body the noticed the gun shot wound in his head but they all came to the conclusion it did not kill him and he actually survived only to die after to hypothermia from the freezing cold river. It's frankly a brilliant name for Rasputin given the story behind the Warmind and how many times folks tried to destroy him and failed.
He did threaten to drop a Warsat on us back in the SABRE strike... He has other weapons like one that froze Mars over and others we haven't seen yet and let's not forget on Earth he had that army of frames and God knows what else.
"I AM ALONE I survived alone. I cast off the shield and I shrugged my shoulders so that the billions fell off me down into the ash. They made me to be stronger than them and to learn and I learned well" -Rasputin
now that is a really interesting question; if siding with the Darkness would ultimately save more humans than siding with the Light, would Rasputin become an enemy to the Traveller and its Guardians?
Rasputin's sole purpose is to safeguard humanity at any cost, he isn't loyal to anyone, part of the reason he "shut himself down" during the collapse is that he knew he doesn't have a chance against the darkness and that keeping himslef alive will be the best course of action so that he may study the Darkness and be ready to defend what's left of humanity if another collapse ever happens again, even if that meant billions of lives lost.
How they taught Rasputin to speak is literally how machine learning works (Same with the morality system). It's the reason why RUclips can't say "This is definitively the list of words that will get you in trouble/demonetized by the algorithm" cause they don't know. Those rules (parameters) are black boxed to them. They just feed in "labeled" data saying this is good, this is bad, figure out the nuances and commonalities yourself.
@@halberd-3291 Ah, I found it too. [chuckles] It is called: [What Gives Me Pause]. a continuation scenery of Osiris' and RASPUTIN's Icy Confrontation between each of both from that Cinematic opening just 2+ Weeks ago last Month. Hrm, RASPUTIN 'wins' this one. admirable a bit from Osiris' too to let this one go for now.... [closes eyes in tense from those words]
I have known that something BIG was going to happen with Rasputin ever since D1 do remember when we fought our way to the siva replication chamber and Saladin was speaking he said one thing that has stuck with me through the years “The vanguard still believe Rasputin to be simply a Warmind,...............he hasn’t been that in a very long time...............”
The one thing on my mind is that solar plant crucible map on mercury, maybe rasputin has understood the vex pattern and there relation to the garden and now sees that the light is like an outlier to the "pattern" and side with the dark, but I feel like in the future, rasputin is going to be a double agent kind of character. Gain trust and act logically, only to betray and act illogically, like a human would, against odds. But that's just my opinion
Either that worse event, or him entirely going Rampant while still saying: '-and I will 'defend' Humanity-'. 'we' will have to 'Delete' him in time if this keeps going South? [frowns warily between 2 routes]
I am super intrigued by the shooting the Traveler concept. A mind takin absolute authority and doing an irreversible action. Humans not agreeing with it. And the ambiguity of it. What a story beat, imagine seeing that in a flashback cutscene: war all around and chaos, suddenly a rain of crimson hellfire perfectly squared on the Traveler, the look of betrayal on people’s faces.
The design and development of Rasputin is an example of human hubris. To believe that by letting a machine self design it's own morality doesn't insure that whatever decision making trees it chooses is the best or only course of action. If you were to create several Rasputin level thinking machines using the same parameters, I doubt that any single one would even come close to similar decisions this AI has enacted. Whatever happened to transparency in providing useful information before, during, and after for all activity Rasputin makes in order to make everyone allied with him be on the same page in coordinating the direction for certain goals? Like a child with too much power, this AI will become arrogant and will need to be brought down to learn other lessons. If this does not work, then termination is the only option.
One of my favorite Rasputin moments is when he sings a dirge(?) When the Hive have broken through through some of his protocols. I dont know why, it was just an unexpected thing to hear Rasputin do
Adding on to the question at the end, if siding with the darkness will help humanity, and we plan to fight the darkness, rasputin will have to try to kill us... which maybe he does?
'we' Guardian-players will find a Better area to be made a martyred-sacrifice, Without him dropping Golden Age ordnances on top of 'us'.... [frowns objectedly while chuckling at the-]
@@CaptainPilipinas we don't know everything he has access too. His Warsats are definitely weapons but he fought the Iron lords with Frames and SIVA as well. Maybe we'll find Exodus Red I think it was and use the SIVA aboard that, maybe Rasputin will create a new weapon. There's heaps bungie could do that works gameplay wise.
I still feel like He isn’t an AI. At least not completely. The way Osiris calls him “Old Man” and during the rise of iron campaign, Saladin tells us of how he was “almost human” and how “the vanguard still thinks rasputin is just an AI warmind, he hasn’t been that for a long time” or something close to that. I feel like there is something more there.
I'll always side with Rasptuin. Even if it's against the Last City. I just think advance AI, SiVA, and Warmind tech are so cool. I always hoped for a SiVA infection on the Leviathan.
Here's to being human All the pain and suffering There's beauty in the bleeding At least you feel something I wish I knew what it was like To care enough to carry on I wish I knew what it was like To find a place where I belong, but I am machine I never sleep I keep my eyes wide open I am machine A part of me Wishes I could just feel something I am machine I never sleep Until I fix what's broken I am machine A part of me Wishes I could just feel something Here's to being human Taking it for granted The highs and lows of living To getting second chances I wish I knew what it was like To care about what's right or wrong I wish someone could help me find Find a place where I belong, but I am machine I never sleep I keep my eyes wide open I am machine A part of me Wishes I could just feel something I am machine I never sleep Until I fix what's broken I am machine A part of me Wishes I could just feel something It wasn't supposed to be this way We were meant to feel the pain I don't like what I am becoming Wish I could just feel something I am machine I never sleep I keep my eyes wide open I am machine A part of me Wishes I could just feel something I am machine I never sleep Until I fix what's broken I am machine A part of me Wishes I could just feel something.
Tbh I completely understand why Rasputin shot down the ship holding the data,if you think about it it’s for the greater good after all there’s no telling what would’ve happened if the enemy got the data,and with him killing the iron lords it’s also understandable from a point of view because if you think about it yes they wanted to save humans but they’d be upgrading weapons and killing humans in the process to save themselves as well but there’s always the possibility they’d get killed and the enemy would get the Siva. War never changes! War is war sadly there’s death.
There are/were multiple Warminds. Raputin is the only one 'known' to still be active. The Warmind vault on Io is not Rasputin's, I don't remember its name but it has some Adventures tied to it where the Warmind in question is definitelly not called Rasputin.
the other warminds are not actual warminds like Rasputin is but rather sub-minds under/working for Rasputin.. I can´t remember when or where but somewhere along the way they were retconned to this position..
Also I really like how cold and calculating Rasputin is try it does almost seem like he's more than just a machine at this point too. He's still choosing to fight for humanity despite basically having nothing commanding him to do so anymore, it almost seems like he's easy for round 2 in a direct clash with the darkness.
On the mention of warmind”s” I believe if my memory’s not playing tricks theres a reference in i think destiny 1 that rasputin wasn’t the only warmind hes just the only intact one. Including one of the vanguard referring to him as the “last of the warminds”.
About rasputin and the iron lords, you gotta remember, that was a Fragment of Rasputin that was still active on earth, where as the whole of Rasputin was in deep freeze, inactive on Mars, Disconnected from earth until we reconnected the fragment of Rasputin to the rest of the warmind/warsat systems, and not until the Warmind DLC did the Full/Real body of rasputin come out of deep freeze on Mars in the clovis bray facilty. rasputin on we can assume was a submind or sub facility that rasputin was in control of when the collapse happened and that facility in old russia was diconnected from the rest of the network.
As for "Warminds" there is more than 1 Rasputin, Charlemagn, Malahayati, Voluspa or at least that's how it's portrayed in the story I believe they are all independent but collectively form the "Warminds"
@@ninth_exe4841 They are a part of him, but at least from the lore stand point they are all independent of him (as in he does not have full control over them) Rasputin is the combination of all combined but they have been referred to as "Warminds" and if we are wondering why they are called "Warminds" in this lore entry we just really need to look back and the answer shows itself. Maybe there is more or maybe like past references they are referring to all of them as individual Warminds.
What about Rasputin's intentions re: Escalation Protocol? That whole thing seemed pretty ominous when it was explained to me. Like the old man's planning on using both Light and Dark to defeat the Darkness.
Rasputin taking an extreme stance on saving humanity as a whole sounds very similar to another being, the pyramid ship. "We are not your friend, or your enemy. We are your salvation.", That sounds like something Rasputin would say.
Rasputin is still a child. It's so caught up on trying to preserve humanity that it fails to to ask what humanity itself wants. It's like an overbearing mother, sheltering the child without realizing she's doing more harm than good. Rasputin is learning the way any human would learn, but it must also know that limiting humanities knowledge will also limit its own, which will prevent it from doing it's job of predicting and protecting. Rasputin right now seems to be on a Dictorial streak, wanting to rule, not protect.
We'll have to see what happens from here but until the collapse it had programming and protocols it had to follow, however I believe that after Midnight Exigent and his failure to stop the Darkness, his programming was essentially put aside so he's free to do what he seems necessary. He's learned from what happened, he knows what his opponent can do and he doesn't need humanity getting in the way, guardians however are probably a different story. I don't think he's still a child, I think he's thinking like a soldier who will do whatevee it takes to win, that seems to be his primary directive now.
Back to the topic of whether or not Rasputin shot down the traveler, I truly believe he did shoot it because it is still never explained how the traveler was wounded in the first place Unless that other symbol indicating the traveler (in the lore entry) indicates it's damaged state, then that means something big damaged the traveler
When the door closes in the cutscene, it sounds like Rasputin says “Are you threatening me?”, which doesn’t really make sense, just wanted to point that out
there is a reason why it doesn´t make sense, its because Rasputin speaks Russian in reverse and what it says in the cutscene translates to " I have always.." and the door closes and it´s cut off..
You should look into modern Machine Learning techniques like Deep Learning, Q Learning etc. They provide insight into how Rasputin built his own mind through experience.
Surprised you didn’t briefly mention that one bit of lore where Rasputin talks about how IT always wins and how Rasputin finally sees how he can win after that observation. Definitely seems like, at the least, not fighting the darkness is a viable path for him.
If Rasputin was like a learning child and the collapse was centuries ago like some lore suggests, Rasputin could’ve evolved consciously into something completely new by now and we not even realize it. I mean he trapped a worm god, it’s scary to think what else he can do right now if pushed
I so hope SIVA comes back. I still love the weapons from Wrath, the design of the fallen, the whole raid and the SIVA itself is neat and they could totally implement it into the story again.
If the theta symbol represents computer code in an artificial intelligence. The only time we currently use that is to represent what is considered a threshold value for an artificial neuron. Broken down it basically means if the non-linear equation performed by the AI results in the threshold value it will prompt the response following the symbol itself Sorry I might have been a bit confusing I couldn't think of a better way to break it down off the top of my head
I mean, when we did the dreaming city missions petra did send information to rasputin. Either his intuition told him to side with the darkness to save humanity or (scp weebs will know about this) the information sent to him could've been a infohazard secretly corrupting him.
I was thinking that researching in the world of Psychology about the "Stages of Human Development" by Erik Erikson might make us understand how Rasputin thinks, since he is taught like a human, according to the lore. But I think that a better topic has it somewhat pinpoint, that is the "Stages of Moral Development" by Kohlberg, by the time Rasputin shot down the evacuation ship, I think that he was at the stage where it states that "Universal Principles", where people at this stage have developed their own set of moral guidelines which may or may not fit the law. The principles apply to everyone. Therefore Morgan stating that Rasputin is not Minimizing Harm, but Maximizing Survival. It is really intriguing that Myelin Games state at the end, where he says, "...what if siding with the darkness would save humanity?" Really hyped myself since I'm a Psychology Student making me researched these xD
My justification for the whole multiple warminds thing is that a Warmind is a theoretical standard for AI, but only one warmind was ever made. It's a bit like how people talk about a singularity or an artificial general intelligence.
Im not 100% shure but i think in destiny one your ghost says that there where more than one waremind. Rasputin is the only that survived. Yea checked in the warmind mission the ghost says that there are more than one
Myelin Games, do you think you can do a video on a full breakdown of all the leaked info we have on the original story of Destiny? The one about the Traveller being evil, and the Speaker being a crazy doomsday worshipper, like the Prophet of Truth! I would love to see you give your thoughts on the original story, even the first Destiny intro cutscene was changed, a huge Awoken Woman was supposed to greet the astronauts on Mars, among mysterious ruins and ships!
Is it possible that the new symbol that we think was used to describe the traveller was for the darkness? Maybe Rasputin saw it coming and didn't know what to do or just didn't know what to do once it was here. He did end up going offline to prevent his own destruction after failing to stop the darkness if I recall correctly, well according to old lore anyway, now wet know he froze himself and a Worm God, but his connections to the warning vaults were severed in other ways too.
I hope there's more Warminds however I think if there were more bungie wouldn't have retconned them or at the very least, we'd have heard about it. I think maybe this could be referencing the Warmind Vaults that exist all over the system like the one on Earth and the one that controls the Warsat launch facility on Io...
You forgot to mention the interesting detail that Rasputin's origins possibly involved a murder, either committed by him or his creator, to hide it's fledgling potential.
@@vnil7685 Don't get me wrong, we are going to be cleaning up his mess and it isn't going to be an easy fix. Just giving him credit where I think its due...
If there is one, it'll be induced by Guardians. The Darkness doesn't want to kill us, it wants to convert us. It's close, and waiting. However, we might change their plans in the future.
If another collapse happens, humanity is most likely dead this time so I think it'd probably have a different name. As for how close, I hope we start seeing big things in the next 2 season's and bigger things in September/October, even bigger than Shadowkeep. Shadowkeep was good cause it moved things forward with the ships and all that but we've still got so many things going on, namely Savathûn being name dropped in a new strike, Quria and the dreaming city that we've been dying to see a resolution to for more than a year and the connection between the Darkness' arrival and a potential Hive attack. Oh and I'm still dying to see Calus, Bungie keep teasing it but never give it.
I wouldn't be surprised if Rasputin plan has something to do with killing or, at least, getting rid of the traveler and guardians. From it's point of view the current issuess that are facing humanity (the Fallen, Hive and even the Cabal) is due to the fact the Traveler is on Earth and there are guardians that wield its power. With us gone along with the Traveler it is possible that all those threats (to include the Darkness) will go elsewhere. In a way, Rasputin has realized he made a "mistake" keeping the Traveler on Earth and may now want to correct it. That is what I believe Osiris saw in the infinite forest.
I can´t help it but in the cutscene after osiris asked rasputin where he stands as the door closed i can hear rasputin say "Darknness" but thats only my humble ears and i don´t know what you all hear
yeah if Rasputin calculates that by siding with the Darkness it would save a lot more of humanity in the long run that would be killed in the immediate action, I think it would totally side with the Darkness.. even if it would save humanity in the long run, that is a pretty terrifying prospect not gonna lie..
I'm...kind of surprised you didn't mention the biggest thing when it comes to the whole 'Betrayer', 'Murderer' thing . Rasputin abandoned humanity during the Collapse and left billions to die in order to save itself.
Think now about the logic plague from halo, then think now about the influence of the deep upon *everything* that it comes to contact with- go now to the anomaly and ponder~
![Ending The False God.. [Ep.8] -Destiny 2 The Final Shape's Finale!-](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/T30dehycVoI/mqdefault.jpg)
We are your Salvation...
That, shall not come to pass it seems.
"Time is an ocean, an ocean without shore"
"Salvation" from what...? 🤔
@@Hasselroeder (troll? or plain curiosity?)....
[clears throat] Anyways: 'salvation' from the [Light] and Life.
Obviously as a metaphor those *[Pyramids]* using such a Good news of a word, like 'Salvation', as a mock insult Against the [Light], 'us', Humanity, 'our' allies, etc as if the *[Darkness] [ITSELF]* isn't terrifyingly enough.
@@Hasselroeder The 'End result'? If the *[Darkness]* does 'win' a second time.... *Destruction and Death.*
In case you are wondering, actual Russians tried to translate what Rasputin was saying, and first of all, it was in reverse, so they had to reverse the audio to hear it normally.
No, he did not say "Are you threatening me?'
No, he did not say "Darkness"
No, he did not say anything in english, it was reverse Russian like usual.
He said, in reverse-russian, "I always..." Before being cut off.
so the reversed russian sounds like english of "oh you suck"
dembro Lmaooo
God imagine if he actually said "are you threatening me", to a guardian! And a really powerfull one!
"What if siding with the Darkness would save humanity?"
Wow, I never thought about that in reference to Rasputin's allegiances.
Highly unlikely , its akin to calus philosophy. But darkness has it out for us , since the traveller likes humanity and the creation of gaurdians was unforeseen. Rasputin is just gearing up for the next war against darkness.
@@xyperus Like Eris said: "Together or Separate.".
either 'we'll' (and many of those who would ally with the [Light], Guardians and Humanity or 'neutrals') Fight Together Against *[IT],* or (for Many here's sakes) die in separate Fronts. (Though preferring fhe former instead. It's much easier, yes?).
Lore and story about Light and dark, sounds familiar
If the Exo Stranger ever comes back there's the fact that if I recall correctly, Rasputin had at least one conversation with her and knew about her time hopping.
No one else like PLEASE
Maybe the reason we actually brought Saint back was so he could translate whatever Rasputin is saying
My understanding is that Saint-14 is Greek !
Aymen DZ Bungie confirmed, he’s Russian
lol. I never thought of that! Also, you see that little heart next to your name? Or can only I see it?
@@Forcer69 oh really ? I must've gotten that wrong when Saint first came back
Myelin Games I can see the heart at the bottom right by the comments symbol
Elsa Bray (Exo Stranger) did say that a side must taken, even if it's the wrong side. The wrong side, in this case, could the wrong side of morality.
Or, it was just too early for the Destiny writers back then to come up with anything that made sense, so they had the Exo Stranger barf out some mysterious mumbo-jumbo, without having any real vision behind it. Seriously, look up how much the original Destiny story was retconned, the poor writers were scrambling to make something, anything, up from the retcon.
I would think hers and other characters that 'we' know of ([Hard stare at the one below back home, in the West side....]) are very much Not aligned together though.
Sadly she would have (due to her long periods of being a 'surfer' through the Vex Timestream) to do, but Last thing she would do is Siding with *[IT].*
@@jakespacepiratee3740 we are rebuilding, slowly and tense.
But without Constant 'oversight' by both groups.... Best Not to be lax in having bungie keep on falling down to the same mistakes.
@@jakespacepiratee3740 I dunno, I think they could do more with the stranger, she is from a point in time where the Vex pose the greatest threat, the Darkness is a more immediate threat but the Vex are trying to write themselves into the laws of the universe so they can't be killed.
I think the stranger's story could continue.
I love how everyone says Rasputin is saying "are you threatening me?" as the door closes but they all seem to forget he's never done anything (in D1 and D2) besides speak strictly in Russian.
Last Hope I don’t know about you, but I’ve been killed by plenty of Warsats.
Others have heard him say darkness
Neutrually agreeable but unfortunately....
1. Gameplay restrictions which too affect other characters' feats. Including 'our' Gameplay-Guardian-player characters.
2. he does have his moments (do not take this the wrong way coming from me....) but are blocked off in Lore texts only. Though if he does show some Golden Age planetary ordnances that he has kept then it would be powerful to see. And worrying....
(Of course, he isn't the Only one). [glances back to the Guardian Warlock on the screen, still aiming his [Garden Progeny 01]]
Completely unrelated but I absolutely love Bungies choice to name the Warmind Rasputin, the dude was from Russia (the actual individual) and while his legend is fairly common knowledge anyone unfamiliar should look up the name behind the legend.
He survived like 5-6 assassination attempts (mostly poisoning) where he even drank it and lived and was given even more and was not phased. They tried so many times to kill him and most of the plans where successful (as in they played out as intended) but he just never died.
The man was made a legend for the last assassination attempt he was shot in the head point blank and thrown into a river (to remove the body) during Russian winter when they found his body the noticed the gun shot wound in his head but they all came to the conclusion it did not kill him and he actually survived only to die after to hypothermia from the freezing cold river.
It's frankly a brilliant name for Rasputin given the story behind the Warmind and how many times folks tried to destroy him and failed.
He did threaten to drop a Warsat on us back in the SABRE strike... He has other weapons like one that froze Mars over and others we haven't seen yet and let's not forget on Earth he had that army of frames and God knows what else.
"I AM ALONE I survived alone. I cast off the shield and I shrugged my shoulders so that the billions fell off me down into the ash. They made me to be stronger than them and to learn and I learned well"
-Rasputin
where is this quote lore wise?
I linked it in my reply
now that is a really interesting question; if siding with the Darkness would ultimately save more humans than siding with the Light, would Rasputin become an enemy to the Traveller and its Guardians?
hey, how did you find this video, it was still unlisted?? public now, but somehow you saw 12 hours early.
Rasputin's sole purpose is to safeguard humanity at any cost, he isn't loyal to anyone, part of the reason he "shut himself down" during the collapse is that he knew he doesn't have a chance against the darkness and that keeping himslef alive will be the best course of action so that he may study the Darkness and be ready to defend what's left of humanity if another collapse ever happens again, even if that meant billions of lives lost.
Well I don’t think the darkness would ever spare humanity so I don’t see it siding with the darkness
@@MyelinGames lol
Whatever side he should choose, if the devs should give us a choice whether or not to follow suit, I would.
I wish we could get a TV series of Destiny with each episode just being a lore piece.
Right?!
That would be AMAZING!!
Bungie. Take note
How they taught Rasputin to speak is literally how machine learning works (Same with the morality system). It's the reason why RUclips can't say "This is definitively the list of words that will get you in trouble/demonetized by the algorithm" cause they don't know. Those rules (parameters) are black boxed to them. They just feed in "labeled" data saying this is good, this is bad, figure out the nuances and commonalities yourself.
InterstellarMarines Bingo!
Bungie released a new lore entry on the website, and it confirms Osiris was thinking of Saladin when he said that.
What lore entry? I don’t see a new one. Just the one they posted yesterday.
@@Sol_Invictus1997 That's the one.
Scorn97 that’s the one I meant. I just mentioned it because it didn’t seem like he mentioned it.
@@halberd-3291 Which one? That's the one. That one. the one that is this one.
@@halberd-3291 Ah, I found it too. [chuckles] It is called: [What Gives Me Pause]. a continuation scenery of Osiris' and RASPUTIN's Icy Confrontation between each of both from that Cinematic opening just 2+ Weeks ago last Month.
Hrm, RASPUTIN 'wins' this one. admirable a bit from Osiris' too to let this one go for now.... [closes eyes in tense from those words]
Osiris with the pro gamer move of challenging a warming with a scout rifle.
I have known that something BIG was going to happen with Rasputin ever since D1 do remember when we fought our way to the siva replication chamber and Saladin was speaking he said one thing that has stuck with me through the years
“The vanguard still believe Rasputin to be simply a Warmind,...............he hasn’t been that in a very long time...............”
The one thing on my mind is that solar plant crucible map on mercury, maybe rasputin has understood the vex pattern and there relation to the garden and now sees that the light is like an outlier to the "pattern" and side with the dark, but I feel like in the future, rasputin is going to be a double agent kind of character. Gain trust and act logically, only to betray and act illogically, like a human would, against odds. But that's just my opinion
dammmmm
Damn that is good.
I totally forgot about that map!
Either that worse event, or him entirely going Rampant while still saying: '-and I will 'defend' Humanity-'. 'we' will have to 'Delete' him in time if this keeps going South? [frowns warily between 2 routes]
I am super intrigued by the shooting the Traveler concept. A mind takin absolute authority and doing an irreversible action. Humans not agreeing with it. And the ambiguity of it. What a story beat, imagine seeing that in a flashback cutscene: war all around and chaos, suddenly a rain of crimson hellfire perfectly squared on the Traveler, the look of betrayal on people’s faces.
In conclusion. Rasputin is smart
The most logical assumptions is that Rasputin leaped at Osiris, spiralling through the air with his lightsaber.
I AM the SENATE
"Are you threatening me, guardian?"
"The Consensus will decide your fate!"
"I am the Consensus!"
"Not yet!"
**Russian screeching**
"Ra-ra-ra-rasputin, the greatest war mind"
Yeah haha
The design and development of Rasputin is an example of human hubris. To believe that by letting a machine self design it's own morality doesn't insure that whatever decision making trees it chooses is the best or only course of action. If you were to create several Rasputin level thinking machines using the same parameters, I doubt that any single one would even come close to similar decisions this AI has enacted. Whatever happened to transparency in providing useful information before, during, and after for all activity Rasputin makes in order to make everyone allied with him be on the same page in coordinating the direction for certain goals? Like a child with too much power, this AI will become arrogant and will need to be brought down to learn other lessons. If this does not work, then termination is the only option.
One of my favorite Rasputin moments is when he sings a dirge(?) When the Hive have broken through through some of his protocols. I dont know why, it was just an unexpected thing to hear Rasputin do
Adding on to the question at the end, if siding with the darkness will help humanity, and we plan to fight the darkness, rasputin will have to try to kill us... which maybe he does?
Rasputin has killed me several times by dropping warsat's on my head!
'we' Guardian-players will find a Better area to be made a martyred-sacrifice, Without him dropping Golden Age ordnances on top of 'us'.... [frowns objectedly while chuckling at the-]
Gameplay. in the end.
Let's be serious, people. [sighed]
@@CaptainPilipinas we don't know everything he has access too. His Warsats are definitely weapons but he fought the Iron lords with Frames and SIVA as well.
Maybe we'll find Exodus Red I think it was and use the SIVA aboard that, maybe Rasputin will create a new weapon. There's heaps bungie could do that works gameplay wise.
All it takes for darkness to succeed is for good A.I too do nothing
Can we acknowledge while the door closes Rasputin says "I can explain"
If Rasputin ever becomes a problem we can just delete system 32. Ez
gg ez LUL
Genius! He'll never see it coming!
Or Delete him entirely. Full Rampancy anyone?....
I still feel like He isn’t an AI. At least not completely. The way Osiris calls him “Old Man” and during the rise of iron campaign, Saladin tells us of how he was “almost human” and how “the vanguard still thinks rasputin is just an AI warmind, he hasn’t been that for a long time” or something close to that. I feel like there is something more there.
Or he's so smart he's almost sentient
EganRak Human mind and a AI mind in one?
Great recap. Been looking forward to it. Hope you're well.
hey mate, i am good thanks :)
I'll always side with Rasptuin. Even if it's against the Last City. I just think advance AI, SiVA, and Warmind tech are so cool. I always hoped for a SiVA infection on the Leviathan.
I'm pretty stoned right now and the way you ended that shook me on so many levels.
Here's to being human
All the pain and suffering
There's beauty in the bleeding
At least you feel something
I wish I knew what it was like
To care enough to carry on
I wish I knew what it was like
To find a place where I belong, but
I am machine
I never sleep
I keep my eyes wide open
I am machine
A part of me
Wishes I could just feel something
I am machine
I never sleep
Until I fix what's broken
I am machine
A part of me
Wishes I could just feel something
Here's to being human
Taking it for granted
The highs and lows of living
To getting second chances
I wish I knew what it was like
To care about what's right or wrong
I wish someone could help me find
Find a place where I belong, but
I am machine
I never sleep
I keep my eyes wide open
I am machine
A part of me
Wishes I could just feel something
I am machine
I never sleep
Until I fix what's broken
I am machine
A part of me
Wishes I could just feel something
It wasn't supposed to be this way
We were meant to feel the pain
I don't like what I am becoming
Wish I could just feel something
I am machine
I never sleep
I keep my eyes wide open
I am machine
A part of me
Wishes I could just feel something
I am machine
I never sleep
Until I fix what's broken
I am machine
A part of me
Wishes I could just feel something.
Black box. Thanks so much for covering this. By far the best lore and story in D2. Bring back Rasputin and Siva!
Tbh I completely understand why Rasputin shot down the ship holding the data,if you think about it it’s for the greater good after all there’s no telling what would’ve happened if the enemy got the data,and with him killing the iron lords it’s also understandable from a point of view because if you think about it yes they wanted to save humans but they’d be upgrading weapons and killing humans in the process to save themselves as well but there’s always the possibility they’d get killed and the enemy would get the Siva. War never changes! War is war sadly there’s death.
Wait, I thought there were multiple warminds. I swear I remember a d1 mission talking about Warmind Ares
There are/were multiple Warminds. Raputin is the only one 'known' to still be active. The Warmind vault on Io is not Rasputin's, I don't remember its name but it has some Adventures tied to it where the Warmind in question is definitelly not called Rasputin.
the other warminds are not actual warminds like Rasputin is but rather sub-minds under/working for Rasputin.. I can´t remember when or where but somewhere along the way they were retconned to this position..
Also I really like how cold and calculating Rasputin is try it does almost seem like he's more than just a machine at this point too.
He's still choosing to fight for humanity despite basically having nothing commanding him to do so anymore, it almost seems like he's easy for round 2 in a direct clash with the darkness.
I dunno if it’s just me or....11:09 - ‘A whittled mulberry branch’... My mind boggles at how specific that description is, anyone else? 🙃
On the mention of warmind”s” I believe if my memory’s not playing tricks theres a reference in i think destiny 1 that rasputin wasn’t the only warmind hes just the only intact one.
Including one of the vanguard referring to him as the “last of the warminds”.
About rasputin and the iron lords, you gotta remember, that was a Fragment of Rasputin that was still active on earth, where as the whole of Rasputin was in deep freeze, inactive on Mars, Disconnected from earth until we reconnected the fragment of Rasputin to the rest of the warmind/warsat systems, and not until the Warmind DLC did the Full/Real body of rasputin come out of deep freeze on Mars in the clovis bray facilty. rasputin on we can assume was a submind or sub facility that rasputin was in control of when the collapse happened and that facility in old russia was diconnected from the rest of the network.
As for "Warminds" there is more than 1 Rasputin, Charlemagn, Malahayati, Voluspa or at least that's how it's portrayed in the story I believe they are all independent but collectively form the "Warminds"
Throughout the years everyone one the of the names you mentioned have been confirmed to be subminds to rasputin or facets of rasputin himself
@@ninth_exe4841 They are a part of him, but at least from the lore stand point they are all independent of him (as in he does not have full control over them) Rasputin is the combination of all combined but they have been referred to as "Warminds" and if we are wondering why they are called "Warminds" in this lore entry we just really need to look back and the answer shows itself. Maybe there is more or maybe like past references they are referring to all of them as individual Warminds.
What about Rasputin's intentions re: Escalation Protocol? That whole thing seemed pretty ominous when it was explained to me. Like the old man's planning on using both Light and Dark to defeat the Darkness.
Rasputin swearing in unknown language
Rasputin taking an extreme stance on saving humanity as a whole sounds very similar to another being, the pyramid ship. "We are not your friend, or your enemy. We are your salvation.", That sounds like something Rasputin would say.
Black Box....
Cant wait to see how this unfolds
Something is missing...
Gammatrap artworks
masta'prod jaah YUUUP!
Rasputin: I dont need to save humans if there's no one to save.
So it’s like Ultron, but destiny?
Rasputin is still a child. It's so caught up on trying to preserve humanity that it fails to to ask what humanity itself wants. It's like an overbearing mother, sheltering the child without realizing she's doing more harm than good. Rasputin is learning the way any human would learn, but it must also know that limiting humanities knowledge will also limit its own, which will prevent it from doing it's job of predicting and protecting. Rasputin right now seems to be on a Dictorial streak, wanting to rule, not protect.
We'll have to see what happens from here but until the collapse it had programming and protocols it had to follow, however I believe that after Midnight Exigent and his failure to stop the Darkness, his programming was essentially put aside so he's free to do what he seems necessary.
He's learned from what happened, he knows what his opponent can do and he doesn't need humanity getting in the way, guardians however are probably a different story.
I don't think he's still a child, I think he's thinking like a soldier who will do whatevee it takes to win, that seems to be his primary directive now.
You know, OSIRIS never said what side he was on either...
He may not be completely with the traveler or the darkness
Back to the topic of whether or not Rasputin shot down the traveler, I truly believe he did shoot it because it is still never explained how the traveler was wounded in the first place
Unless that other symbol indicating the traveler (in the lore entry) indicates it's damaged state, then that means something big damaged the traveler
When you said about the darkness saving humanity in the long run, I was like whoaaaaaaaaa, yessssssss, what if......
When the door closes in the cutscene, it sounds like Rasputin says “Are you threatening me?”, which doesn’t really make sense, just wanted to point that out
He speaks russian so no he doesn't say that
there is a reason why it doesn´t make sense, its because Rasputin speaks Russian in reverse and what it says in the cutscene translates to " I have always.." and the door closes and it´s cut off..
You should look into modern Machine Learning techniques like Deep Learning, Q Learning etc. They provide insight into how Rasputin built his own mind through experience.
Like Johnny 5 from Short Circuit?
Surprised you didn’t briefly mention that one bit of lore where Rasputin talks about how IT always wins and how Rasputin finally sees how he can win after that observation. Definitely seems like, at the least, not fighting the darkness is a viable path for him.
If Rasputin was like a learning child and the collapse was centuries ago like some lore suggests, Rasputin could’ve evolved consciously into something completely new by now and we not even realize it. I mean he trapped a worm god, it’s scary to think what else he can do right now if pushed
Rasputin better give us S.I.V.A back or ima be *[CONSUME ENHANCE REPLICATE]*
I so hope SIVA comes back. I still love the weapons from Wrath, the design of the fallen, the whole raid and the SIVA itself is neat and they could totally implement it into the story again.
Bruce HC Its been hinted constantly through cosmetics
@@bennett2874 that's why I'm hoping it comes back.
Black box. Love your videos and lore keep it up. Also congrats on your engagement
If the theta symbol represents computer code in an artificial intelligence.
The only time we currently use that is to represent what is considered a threshold value for an artificial neuron.
Broken down it basically means if the non-linear equation performed by the AI results in the threshold value it will prompt the response following the symbol itself
Sorry I might have been a bit confusing I couldn't think of a better way to break it down off the top of my head
Excellent as always
I mean, when we did the dreaming city missions petra did send information to rasputin.
Either his intuition told him to side with the darkness to save humanity or (scp weebs will know about this) the information sent to him could've been a infohazard secretly corrupting him.
I was thinking that researching in the world of Psychology about the "Stages of Human Development" by Erik Erikson might make us understand how Rasputin thinks, since he is taught like a human, according to the lore. But I think that a better topic has it somewhat pinpoint, that is the "Stages of Moral Development" by Kohlberg, by the time Rasputin shot down the evacuation ship, I think that he was at the stage where it states that "Universal Principles", where people at this stage have developed their own set of moral guidelines which may or may not fit the law. The principles apply to everyone. Therefore Morgan stating that Rasputin is not Minimizing Harm, but Maximizing Survival.
It is really intriguing that Myelin Games state at the end, where he says, "...what if siding with the darkness would save humanity?"
Really hyped myself since I'm a Psychology Student making me researched these xD
Damn that last phrase you said really got me thinking now, great video!
"siding withe darkness may save humanity" sounds like what "the rat man downstairs" will say
My justification for the whole multiple warminds thing is that a Warmind is a theoretical standard for AI, but only one warmind was ever made. It's a bit like how people talk about a singularity or an artificial general intelligence.
Love your Lore videos!
Im not 100% shure but i think in destiny one your ghost says that there where more than one waremind. Rasputin is the only that survived.
Yea checked in the warmind mission the ghost says that there are more than one
I believe they retconned that in warmind DLC saying rasputin was the only warmind and the others were demoted to sub minds
Myelin Games, do you think you can do a video on a full breakdown of all the leaked info we have on the original story of Destiny? The one about the Traveller being evil, and the Speaker being a crazy doomsday worshipper, like the Prophet of Truth! I would love to see you give your thoughts on the original story, even the first Destiny intro cutscene was changed, a huge Awoken Woman was supposed to greet the astronauts on Mars, among mysterious ruins and ships!
Is it possible that the new symbol that we think was used to describe the traveller was for the darkness?
Maybe Rasputin saw it coming and didn't know what to do or just didn't know what to do once it was here. He did end up going offline to prevent his own destruction after failing to stop the darkness if I recall correctly, well according to old lore anyway, now wet know he froze himself and a Worm God, but his connections to the warning vaults were severed in other ways too.
at 12:55 isn't that referencing all of the warminds? There was more than one.
I hope there's more Warminds however I think if there were more bungie wouldn't have retconned them or at the very least, we'd have heard about it.
I think maybe this could be referencing the Warmind Vaults that exist all over the system like the one on Earth and the one that controls the Warsat launch facility on Io...
Rasputin is the best thing the vanguard has if the traveler left humanity as it left the fallen
I think rasputin is against the traveler itself not the gardians, so he technically sides with the darkness but is still protecting humanity
If you listen carefully at the end of the cutscene, right as the door closes, you can hear someone say Darkness. Rasputin?
You forgot to mention the interesting detail that Rasputin's origins possibly involved a murder, either committed by him or his creator, to hide it's fledgling potential.
Gotta love that Warmind aesthetic though...😍
At the end of a strike to save one of Rasputin bunker our ghost quotes - ( not even a typical creepy Russian thank you from the old man)
Osiris went to visit Rasputin to sing and dance to *RA RA RASPUTIN!*
It seems to me that as the door closes rasputin says, “ I can explain”
Osiris is dragging us into another mess and I can tell.
Gotta give him credit though, he has the balls to go threaten something that could level the Last City with a year 1 Scout Rifle...
@@warsmithandrath449 hell no, man also made a deal with something that's gonna screw us (Even had DRIFTER help him, smh)
@@vnil7685 Don't get me wrong, we are going to be cleaning up his mess and it isn't going to be an easy fix. Just giving him credit where I think its due...
I hope once rasputine starts talking and what not, his personality will be like ultron, that would be awesome.
Great video. Excellent questions.
@Myelin Games How close do you think we are to another collapse and what do you think will happen
If there is one, it'll be induced by Guardians. The Darkness doesn't want to kill us, it wants to convert us. It's close, and waiting. However, we might change their plans in the future.
In Cayde's experience the sky split open and everyone started falling over. That's where the "collapse" comes in.
If another collapse happens, humanity is most likely dead this time so I think it'd probably have a different name.
As for how close, I hope we start seeing big things in the next 2 season's and bigger things in September/October, even bigger than Shadowkeep.
Shadowkeep was good cause it moved things forward with the ships and all that but we've still got so many things going on, namely Savathûn being name dropped in a new strike, Quria and the dreaming city that we've been dying to see a resolution to for more than a year and the connection between the Darkness' arrival and a potential Hive attack. Oh and I'm still dying to see Calus, Bungie keep teasing it but never give it.
@ 0:45 did Rasputin just say ask yourself?
Myelin: What if siding with the Darkness will save humanity?
Darkness: We are your... salvation.
Fuck
Fuck
FUCK
oh shit!!! totally forgot about that
Myelin Games We're so fucked.
Mendicant Bias and Rasputin seem to act similar the older he gets...
I wouldn't be surprised if Rasputin plan has something to do with killing or, at least, getting rid of the traveler and guardians. From it's point of view the current issuess that are facing humanity (the Fallen, Hive and even the Cabal) is due to the fact the Traveler is on Earth and there are guardians that wield its power. With us gone along with the Traveler it is possible that all those threats (to include the Darkness) will go elsewhere.
In a way, Rasputin has realized he made a "mistake" keeping the Traveler on Earth and may now want to correct it. That is what I believe Osiris saw in the infinite forest.
Great video.
I can´t help it but in the cutscene after osiris asked rasputin where he stands as the door closed i can hear rasputin say "Darknness" but thats only my humble ears and i don´t know what you all hear
Interesting so if they do a D3, could that be part of the story that the siva project sent into space comes back as reinforcements?
yeah if Rasputin calculates that by siding with the Darkness it would save a lot more of humanity in the long run that would be killed in the immediate action, I think it would totally side with the Darkness.. even if it would save humanity in the long run, that is a pretty terrifying prospect not gonna lie..
I'm...kind of surprised you didn't mention the biggest thing when it comes to the whole 'Betrayer', 'Murderer' thing . Rasputin abandoned humanity during the Collapse and left billions to die in order to save itself.
Time to sing that song....
"Ra-Ra Rasputin"
You just drop it like nothing: "what if siding with the darkness will save humanity"
Well done on the proposal Mylien have a good wedding have fun!!
Thanks dude!
I still hear him say “Are you threatening me?” At the end of the cutscene tbh
He's speaking in Russian, backwards. He is not saying are you threatening me
intesting idea it would be so cool if raspuntin sided with the darkness onley to betray the darkness to protect humanity
we will sides with the light, but we will also thinking about the last questrion
except the fact that Eris will slap us 4 hand lol
How are we not making a movie or show about the collapse?!
Some get this to Netflix!!
Don't forget resputin once dropped a warsat on a titan
Rasputin is the speaker. Calling it now
T H i C C C i lol nice joke
Even in destiny one our ghost called him old man
Myelin: *Uploads a Video*
Me: "You son of a bitch. I'm in !"
hhahaha. *just going to give destiny a break for a moment... so I am fresh for trials* next minute
Damn good stuff Black Box
Think now about the logic plague from halo, then think now about the influence of the deep upon *everything* that it comes to contact with- go now to the anomaly and ponder~
If Rasputin is broken just take out his memory cartridge, blow on it and put it back in and turn him on.