For me I don't see #saveTF2 as a complete waste of time because on British and European servers there are almost 0 bots on them. 11:40. Thank you and all the rest of you who done that amazing movement saved tf2.
It's strange to think that, but the fact that TF2 got abandoned by Valve meant that we never saw it devolve into having a Battle Royale mode. Silver lining, something-something.
It's really upsetting to me that Valve, a company infamous for doing literally everything at a snail's pace, has begun to rush out just about everything they do now.
Well that's the thing. They don't. All they rush out wasn't even done by them. Which makes it even worse, in my opinion. They haphazardly throw low quality user created content into the game without any sort of quality control and then rake in the free money from the cosmetics they had no part in creating. Valve has been using their fans as sweatshop workers, as free labor, while themselves not even doing the bare minimum, for a long while now, and it's mind boggling to me how no one is calling them out for it. If it was any other game company they would get torn to shreds over this.
It’s a wild concept to me that people that started after jungle inferno will never know the joy of getting a new weapon added to the game and the balance that will come once added.
There are so many things newer players miss that I wish they could enjoy. Back then having an update with all the new changes and additions (certainly larger than holiday ones) was something you could *regularly* anticipate. You were sure Valve would deliver. This anticipation is most likely never going to appear again, and as much as I’ve moved on, it is still a disheartening thought to what once was.
@@PersonMann I remember staying up for the Midnight release of the Pyromania Update and being the 72nd person to craft the Scorch Shot which I still have to this day. New updates were a event, You would Pre-Load the Patch and it would almost feel like a brand new game released. Now I don't even notice TF2 has updated until I check the download queue for steam.
@gamingtime9716 yeah unfortunately we aren't the demographic most modern games cater to. Many games for those playing 10+ hrs per day/spending $100 per month on cosmetics.
The sooner we finally accept it will likely die the better, Valve does not change, they're deaf, As much as i'd like to believe in a miracle, with a lack of proper content updates and the increasing age and unease of the playerbase it seems very unlikely, I do still do what i can to keep the game alive, which is to make it accessible to friends, gatekeep and criticise and thats never gonna change
it's inching closer and closer to modern gaming, when the reason so many people like it is for how unique the game is and how it's one of the only remaining bastions of old school...
@@mini_heknot really, the analogy kinda sucked, its less like if you got a green olive on your sundae and more if the waiter brought you the ingredients to make whatever sundae you wanted with a few ingredients you dont like, you dont have to make the sundae with them and if you do and complain youre an idiot
When I first started as a medic main, especially in mvm, I would always ask my more experienced teammates what I could be doing better. Sometimes it hurts a little, but I needed to read it because it meant being a more dependable and supportive medic. Listening to criticism can hurt, but ultimately it for the best. Its like a flu shot. Does it hurt and make that spot sore? Yes, but it helps your immune system fight the flu.
And the more criticism you receive, the less painful it becomes. I remember being a little kid and being terrified of doing something wrong, but now it's almost like a normal part of life. You'll mess up, and other people will correct you. It's just how it is, ya know?
@@insert-qk5rv no i don't, i'm just saying that base core of tf2 is so much fun and has endless skill ceiling that by itself it keeps you playing, same base game it is since 2007. and that's why tf2 survived till this day without any major changes made to it.
@@擻 then what was the point of that indirect jab towards it on the latter half of your sentence? Those are all popular criticisms of fortnite, is it wrong of me to assume that's what you're getting at? (I agree with what you're saying about TF2 btw, just why do you have to put something else down to praise it?)
@@insert-qk5rvindirect jab at fortnite? dude literally all he said was events constant rushed content updates and fomo. thats not a indirect jab at fortnite, thats a direct jab at modern gaming which has just had such a degraded quality over the years, one very good example being the CoD franchise, they're actually making the exact same game over and over rebrand it then pump it out for an excessive amount of money, they're complimenting that tf2 doesnt do this and is probably why it still lasted to this day
I actually kinda like that tf2 is left the hell alone. The seasonal stuff is a quick distraction (or a long one with Halloween contracts) and then im back to playing my usual rotation of maps. I'm old, i dont like change.
@@TJ-hg6opSeriously all valve needs to do is Make a new anti cheat Fix the janky bugs Rebalance some weapons And from their just heavily cherry pick good stuff from the workshop 3 times in one year. Maybe 1-2 Smissmas and Scream-fortress maps and 3-5 really good Casual Maps in the summer.
Seriously tf2 has proved time and time again that it can keep itself alive just fine by being an immovable piece of video game history that both old and new gamers would eventually try out at some point sooner or later. All valve has to do is just make sure to keep bots and cheaters out of the game, that's all they have to damm do.
@@DaRealDemobird Yeah, TF2 may not be even close to the mother load that is Steam as a whole, but I still think it would be worth it to support this game just a bit more. I don’t need any new updates with new crap I don’t need. I want balanced weapons, no bots, no cheaters, no snip- and that should be all. Thats all it takes for this game to be functioning. While it is more popular than ever, there is so much untapped potential for it to grow bigger if the first experiences of the players wasn’t horrible bots.
@@TJ-hg6op the game's source code was leaked like what, 2-3 times already? To fix the bot issue, the whole game engine would need to be revamped, and porting to S2 would fracture the player base, cuz a good portion of dedicated players still run on terribly outdated hardware. This ain't no longer a anti-cheat issue ever since the bot crisis
Nah, when the game came out, it worked fine. I'm pretty sure it was Gun Mettle that broke it after they switched to the new viewmodel system for decorated weapons. Same with Spy's revolver.
@@evdestroy5304it broke im pretty sure after they changed demo’s grenade launcher clip size to 4 from 6, but that didnt help either, i miss the old viewmodels so much
@@FerinitheBloodHuskyno I mean, there's a universe where there were hackers in the games he played, so he went back to playing KH and became a big Square Enix fan and eventually became a KH youtuber. It's not like tf2 didn't have some hackers back then
Finally some person I can relate to, I am also very tired of pretending that tf2 is a "great wonderland for everyone and everything". Thank you for this video.
As a newer player myself(joined right at the end of 2017), I'm frankly surprised at how other newer players could accept this stuff. Maybe it's because I have a better understanding of these things as an artist myself but I still dont see how any regular person could accept it either
I joined in july of 2023 and still regret not joining earlier But i really just cant agree more with thewhat, im a silly gibbus hat player who likes to conga around the entire map (most of the time if it happens) with little to no cosmetics and i still enjoy it despite not being able to communicate, have all the weapons bc TF2 at its core is SO original, So perfect and so funny that its one of the oldest yet most played games in gaming history Yet the constant money hungriness of other companies with battle passes, so many tryhards or serious players acting, being all homo, s'xist and racist type of profiles, chats and weeb stuff The invasion of bots and hackers all in the name of "fun and getting reactions and attention" while valve not even letting its community fix the problems, And thewhat made a really good point on the feedback thing, sometimes some people often see opinions (both pos and neg) as cancel attempts, critisism is something that can give you an idea to make both sides like the end product. Some People these days and in the past just dont act with empathy, kindness and understanding. Respect is the key.
I joined around late 2018 and at first I was ok with the tacky cosmetics because it was funny. But overtime as I learnt about people that didn’t like these cosmetics I started to realise that they were unhealthy for the game and am now in support of keeping the original style of tf2.
I'm gonna be completely honest I've been a 2fort/doublecross dweller for around 7 years now I'd say and the game still holds up but something I've noticed lately is that there haven't been many bots on ctf compared to other gamemodes. I don't know why that is but who knows. Also the new smissmas update is actually kinda good, decent maps and good cosmetics. Hope the valve servers never shut down
How do you tolerate those meme maps man lol. I only started playing this game back in 2020 (yes in the middle of the mega bot crisis) and I am already sick of the tomfollery there.
I can see how bots would want to avoid CTF maps. They're designed to follow specific paths, so they can't handle irregular intel positions particularly well. Not that a bot would even go for it.
@dragonandavatarfan8865 as someone who has played since 2013, you get bored of it, go play an objective gamemode, realize why you don't play objective gamemodes (your team refuses to cooperate and/or the matches are incredibly unbalanced), and go back to playing the closest thing to tdm you can.
I think if you're worried that the standard for what is accepted into the game is slipping (and for the record, I agree that it is), the feedback should be directed at Valve. Blaming workshoppers for getting their unfinished or sub-standard designs accepted by Valve is like blaming a dog for doing a bad job working at a toll booth. Someone hired a dog. Blame them. Wutville is the perfect example of this. I've seen a lot of people saying that #saveTF2 didn't work, so now we're all out of options for communicating with Valve. I don't really understand why. Since when was there a rule that we only get to raise awareness once? I see no reason why #saveTF2 couldn't be a yearly thing until Valve actually follows up. Why did we give up on the solution that makes the most sense - and more importantly - hurts the least amount of people?
I don't think workshoppers are to blame. However the strange workshop is a public forum where people upload their work to relieve feedback. Valve themself encourages this with a rating system, discussion page, and comment thread for each submission. So while you can't blame workshoppers if something is accepted, what we can do is give honest and fair feedback on the quality of the submission. And as far as savetf2 goes, there is definitely more we could do. I've been theorizing some potential future campaigns that might help.
Ehhhh I kind of disagree. Like TheWhat said there are forms where your stuff can get feed back on many platforms without workshop uploads. And I get having the issue with first time devs, but there are devs out there who make garbage and have gotten their garbage picked BY valve and choose to make more garbage because they know it'll get picked. A lot of the trash Halloween and Christmas skins and hats come from the *same* guys who make new shitty stuff that gets chosen and they know it will
Valve doesn't care for the game, do you really, honest to god, believe the guy adding maps to tf2 is somehow playing in them, that he's somehow forming a 24 player match to test if the gameplay and team balance is good? Obviously is Valve's fault, because they are the owner of the franchise but as I said, they just don't care, the responsibility falls on us, the tf2 community to push only the good maps, the good taunts and the good cosmetics so that Valve is forced to add quality into the game, because is well known at this point they won't make any effort.
I've said it multiple times, and I'll say it again, community-added gamemodes peaked with VSH. I wish that instead of Zombie Fortress, we just got more VSH because I believe that the problem with VSH was that most of its popularity was hype. It is a damn good gamemode that not only updates the classic Juggernaut style gameplay, but makes it fun for hours upon hours on end! I only stopped playing because every match I entered was more VSH, and I'd love to go back now that it's been a while. Zombie Fortress gave us an idea of how things could go wrong with community gamemodes, Prop Hunt, (thank God it didn't get added) would've been just too much.
I think from the moment the game shifted mainly towards community support, that's when the game started to be a whole different thing. It is in tone and atmosphere a very different game than the original release. It's sad we'll never get to see the full spy thriller experience Valve started with, but that ship has sailed a long time ago
As someone who's had a steam account since 2013, I really can relate to some of the stuff you said in this video, especially about all the modern garbage from games like COD, Fortnight or even Rainbow Six Siege (which used to be one of my favourite games). Its such a shame to see big developers run their games head first into the ground just for the sake of bleeding their players dry or what not thus changing the games identity. Excellent video overall though.
@@CloudstreefCoD's been declining since Advanced Warfare. Many people attribute the last good cod as Black Ops 2 and say Ghosts was the falloff point, but at least Ghosts felt like a genuine attempt that just happened to fall flat.
Fortnite BR never had an identity, it was this free side mode that just so happened to blow up. It gets so much hate for being the "catalyst for modern gaming," but here's my counter point: shouldn't you also hate on FIFA for being the "catalyst" for lootboxes?
@@thedecentgamer7818 the main criticisms were that the story was poorly written and contrived, the multiplayer's kill times were too quick and the maps were too large and confusing for the size of lobbies, and that Extinction was a poor man's Left 4 Dead
I feel like slowly more and more people are waking up to this first it was zesty, then it was fish sticks and now even thewhat is realising this. I hope valve reconises what's happening with other titles and not fall into the same trap
Great video, honestly. Whilst I can admit I'm more of a newer player compared to most boomers (I joined around the time Gun Mettle released), I can absolutely see why people think the way they do with the recent cosmetics, maps and gamemodes as of late. I was one of the people who originally defended Prop Hunt as a gamemode to be added, but looking back on it, I don't think I'd actually play it that much and I know it'd lose it's novelty quickly. I've gone on record saying that the community needs to chill out a bit, and I do still stand by it. Even if you see a cosmetic that you don't like on the workshop, instead of being an ass about it, people should just explain why they don't like it respectfully. Admittedly, I know nothing about making items themselves (I've made 1 actual item promo poster currently) but I know that it's difficult to make something good, especially if it's someone's first attempt at it. I really wished SaveTF2 went somewhere. We got a couple of things out of it, but the main problem still hasn't been fixed, which is really saddening. I originally planned to do a stream of me and some friends just playing on Wutville for a laugh, and literally every single server was infested with at least 3 bots on each team, making it damn near impossible to play, so we ended up moving onto playing 2Fort and Doublecross right before the new update launched. I still have copium that they'll eventually do something about it, but as of right now, no amount of items, maps, taunts, unusuals or game modes are going to fix the core underlying issue. Also, I'm seeing a lot of comments about how TF2 has had crossovers in the past, and yeah, that's true. The last official crossover items we got were the Disgaea PC items, which were released in 2016, over 7 years ago. Valve had stopped adding crossover items for years at this point so I don't really see that good of a reason to bring it up.
Well-made video. However, though I agree with most of your points, my opinion on the Workshop Creator vs. Gatekeeper issue differs. Workshop submissions are not in the game. And the only one who judges what to add to the game is Valve. If Valve decides to pick sloppy, crappy, out-of-style items or maps, no one can stop them. And it so happened in that way for years. And after the recent Prop Hunt drama, some people started to point guns at Workshop Creators for creating subpar submissions and actively trying to gatekeep. Review bombing, insulting, spreading hate. So I think like this: "Is it fair to gatekeep those subpar submissions from the Workshop out of existence when Valve, who's in charge of quality control, isn't doing their job?" Even if they manage to gatekeep all subpar creators out of the Workshop, Valve still can pick sloppy cosmetics submitted back in 2007. It solves nothing. And Workshop creators, including you, start from somewhere subpar. Mediocre. They grow from healthy feedback and proper criticism, and some create bangers at the end. But people reacting overly sensationally towards the sentence 'Defending TF2's purity' seem to want to remove all the subpar submissions. This may discourage creators' fresh endeavors. I'm not saying criticism is evil. It's a necessity for the greater good. But what I've seen in Workshop recently were... More of a personal attack than criticism and feedback, so.
I made a point in the video to mention this. The best thing for that can happen for the workshop is a healthy debate and fair criticism. Obviously trolls and gatekeepers will do much more harm than good, however on that same not it's not fair to lump people who give critiques on items into that same group.
A lot of workshop stuff is lazy for a quick buck, less garbage and more genuine submissions would be better. Can't blame valve when most of their options are animal heads.
@@ghoulbuster1that's bs. Tf2 has been around for a decade and a half and its workshop went live in 2011. Even some of the creators of the dreaded all class smissmass hats, that barely fit into actual sets, and that I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole, have created great, or at least decent cosmetics. Yes (constructive) critisism is required for the game and the community to prosper. Actual critisism is how workshop creators grow (like TheWhat). But saying that Valve doesn't have many options apart from animal heads is silly. (Plus I've seen many bad or mediocre cosmetics and not even half of them were animal head replacements)
TF2 hasn't been the same since they shoe horned matchmaking into the game snuffing out community servers and ushered unto us a 24/7 plague of bots that only exist as the match ruining force they are because they can just mindlessly spam the system and get funneled onto new players to harass.
I agree with the how the shoe horned matchmaking hurt the game by a lot, TF2 used to be about snail-pace matches in choke heavy maps like Cp_Dustbowl or around 10 quick matches on maps like Cp_Gorge, I remember how most friends on steam via TF2 were done through lengthy back-and-forward matches, voice or text chat, and further helped with mechanics such as domination and revenge, it really brought players into a more united experience, hell most of the time you joined a match someone voted to "extend current map" into absurd time limits.
Meet Your Match really was a calamitous mistake, but you can't ignore it looked promising at the time. If people didn't want an actual competitive mode, Valve wouldn't have botched it.
what's funny is that zesty said this like some months ago and then ppl are finally coming around to say hes right... but I'm a new player too, I only have 900 hrs on record and been playing since July 19th 2022. but I've been with this community since a couple months after blue moon. I've seen the player base fall to its lowest at the peaks of the bot crisis, I remember thinking I'm never gonna play this game because no ones gonna be on to play it, I'm glad to say that I'm dead wrong, but it really does feel like quality is degrading. it feels that the one guy they got on this game simply isn't up to the task so he just substitutes with whatever he can find off the workshoppe.
@@QWERTY708100 I play a lot.. I'm a part-time employee with no outside/irl life and little friends, all of which online. games are the only way that I escape how sad my life is and make me feel like I'm doing something valuable with my time whilst I'm not working.
@@QWERTY708100 Hell, I've got both of you beat. I've been playing since ~2014 and only have around 400 hours. That said, I burnout on games quickly, so I usually pop in, play a few dozen hours, then take a long break, before returning for some old fashioned fun.
I know that none of you probably care but I would beg to differ. I got my first laptop on Christmas 2023 and immediately got TF2 I had been watching vids on it for so long and was very ready to play it and once i did it was amazing to this day I am getting new weapons and finding new strategies it has not lost its charm to newbies even though its devs have left, it truly is an amazing experience and I’m shure it was different back than but new players like me are still just learning and improving it is just the perfect game
Valved replaced quick-play with Casual and added official Competitive in 2016, the year I joined. The Last Major Update was 2017. The last balance patch was 2018. Valve servers are still flooded with bots since 2020, and chat is still disabled for F2Ps despite it not fixing the problem. The only reason Valve still touches the game at all is to keep milking players with cosmetic updates. At the end of the day, Valve is like every other gaming company. And as of the last decade or so, that means NOT providing a finished product, but instead stringing you along until you realize you've been ripped off.
I don't remember which TF2 video this quote is from, but it really stuck with me. It went something like "Everyone loves to praise TF2 so much, to celebrate it's genius game design and brilliant artstyle, but when you are criticizing it for changing for the worse, those same people will call you toxic" or something like that.
@@alpharius2omegaboogaloo384funny thing is it was a beloved RUclipsr that commented under Zestyjesus's video lol, it was Richterovertime that made the comment itself.
People’s entitlement to shut down any criticism is really worrying to me because it removes all the community discussion from the community. People want everything to be positive all the time because they keep making everything truly negative for themselves instead of just… being mature about any criticism even if harsh. Everyone should know that the world does not revolve around them, and that you should always consider what people have to say, unless they’re actually just not explaining themselves
Entitlement really seems to be the biggest problem with the modern world, doesn't it? All those people who've never been taught to temper their expectations or deal with criticism, set loose on a platform where their expectations are constantly pushed up and let down, and where every single person out there can criticize their work for any reason.
@@Spiritnick I think it’s also a sad case of thinking the world is against you. Every criticism somehow has to have malice behind it instead of care and thought to these folks, and it’s damaging to the creative community as a whole
I disagree. With the listening to everything everyone has to say. For example, some things are objectively bad and should never be practiced. Should you still hear what the person who wants it has to say? Not really. I do not think anyone is really entitled for other people to hear them out unless they are specifically submitting content to people, or working in a job or a company- whenever you are working for or taking care of any other people basically. So for something like this, your point would make sense and I mostly agree with you. But in general, I don’t think so.
I remember a comment on a, uh, certain video, that said something along the lines of "People never stop talking about how special tf2 is but will be angry at you for trying to protect what makes it special"
As a player since 2008 who took the account of my older cousin that stopped playing FPS games, TF2 was ASTRONOMICALLY different in community and vibe to what we have today. It was so much more warm, inviting, and fun back then when everything was new and voice chat in every match was common. Cradle that in with updates ALL the time, an ecstatic and excitable community of players, and none of the weirdos that inhabit the game nowadays and you got a grand A+ tier game that you literally could not stop playing for extended periods of time in fear you'd miss something like a major update or a community event. Weapons like the sandman were also usable (used to be my favourite Scout melee) and the game felt far more cartoonish and casual than it does today. I will always look back on old TF2 very fondly. Especially the old surf, trade, and achievement servers that used to be loaded.
9:05 legit me as well, like i normally complete all of it, with some time to spare with friends, could not get this one done, but would love to see contracts used more in maps or something for smissmas
Also someone who saw tf2 around 2010, made an account late 2011, but mainly started playing around then, TF2 is not the same anymore, and no I don't want the game to go back fully to getting one map and some hats, but instead get like 3 maps, some hats, a new weapon, like jungle inferno, add stuff to contracts, some quality of life stuff for streamers and video makers, and most importantly, fix the fucking bot problem, that should be #1 just like for CS2, and they can't ignore CS2 for very long since some items in there make a ton of money for Valve.
Idk why people are so afraid to mention him or anything, but most of the stuff in this video is just what Zesty has been saying for quite some time, even though you put it in a calmer and non-aggressive way. I'm glad that more people and content creators start noticing and talking about this, that guy may be a bit of an hothead with a not-so-light vocabulary, and he often attacks groups he thinks responsible for the workshop "slop" (not new and beginning creators who don't know any better), but his passion about the game is real and the constructive criticism is also there. I wish more of tf2 content creators would get along (even if that's a bit impossible)
9:02 yup, same. Couldn’t do it, got like 5 contracts done. Wtf am I supposed to valve? Play all the 40 something maps just 24/7 day in day out?? Did anyone beat all the contracts this time around period??? Halloween used to be the only reason I got back into TF2, now I can’t even play that too. Get it together, valve.
i think part of the reason TF2 and fighting games have been on my mind so much is that they both have organic origins for passion on players and they built stuff like competitive by the community, and that they are much more human experiences than the tipical team shooter with 7 figure prize pools. it's nice. that's it really. nice.
Just a small point covered in your video but I do find it interesting how in recent years how aggressive younger fans have become toward older fans. This goes for a lot of games and setting, Warhammer 40k is currently facing a very similar issue to the one you outlined in this video. Older communities try and approach new fans saying "We are happy you are here. Here we have a set of minimum standards.We have these standards for the benefit of everyone." and then get attacked and accused of gatekeeping. Its really frustrating sometimes honestly. You don't want to keep people out, but when you invite them in they have zero respect for whats already been built and demand it change to meet their passing interest. Then they move on leaving whatever damage they cause behind and leaving some older fans so frustrated they become hostile to any future newcomers. Rant over.
On the one hand, yes, gatekeeping spreads some serious toxicity that just ruins a good thing for people and keeps people from ever trying something they might actually enjoy. On the other hand, it's a necessary evil. Gatekeeping keeps people you wouldn't want in the community anyway from ever becoming part of it. It's neither completely good nor completely bad, it's just that nobody has any idea how to use it properly.
As someone who is kind of a 'newcomer' to TF2 (played for the first time on 2018, but genuinely started playing at the beginning of 2021), this really got to me. I can relate to a lot of games I used to play when I was younger that suddenly fell off and became something different, not able to resemble any of the energy they once had. By just a couple of months of playing, I realized TF2 is a timeless masterpiece, and it's now one of my favorite games of all time, so seeing it get ignored by Valve (who has also crafted some other of my favorite games of all time) is like a spit on my face and a kick to the balls. As a community, we can only keep on pushing so the last remains of content this game gets are up to quality, and not some Prop Hunt shit that belongs on Gmod. TF2 will live one, because it's a hell of a game, and we can only try to keep up and pray someday, Valve listens.
Agreed with most of the video. I think more people need to understand that the quality and quantity of the content matters. We don't need dozens of maps and cosmetics of wildly varying quality. Im glad Valve seems to be picking better stuff from the workshop, but they shouldnt add so much maps and only pick a handful of good ones otherwise it will end up doing more harm than good.
This video really just reminds me of a bad thought i occasionally have. "What happens if tf 2 shuts down or dies for good?" i know it sounds absurd but all things come to an end sometime, i just hope the current situation of the game improves and we get many more years with the game and characters we love. (im a really new fan but i still agree with what was said in the video and people are just way too sensitive these days)
Valve may very well shut down official support within the next 10 years. It's less of "will they" and more "when will they". Besides that, there will still be community servers where you will be able to join, I'd be willing to bet in another 15 years there will still be people playing TF2 even if valve officially kills support. I mean, look at CS 1.6, there's still nearly 10,000 concurrent players at peak hours. There are still people who play 1.6 every single day, and I doubt TF2 would ever totally, completely die out. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised to still full community servers in 2050. So if you can accept that aspect, the game will truly never be totally dead. It won't be what it is today, just like today isn't like it was 10 years ago, but it'll still be here.
Not possible because unlike most modern games, community servers exist. If Casual and the item servers shut down, community servers would just rise up again with plug-ins to let you use all of the weapons.
the market for class based shooters is way bigger than it was in 2007 and valve owns arguably the most recognizable IP of the genre, so if they pull the plug on tf2 it's because they released a sequel, otherwise there isn't much of a reason, tf2 is pretty easy money and you could argue that it still has room for some growth
@@evdestroy5304You gotta realize just how much work, and how wildly expensive it is to hold up just one community server. If TF2's main servers go down, then that means millions of people will be forced to use community servers. The influx would be too big for the community to handle.
I'm convinced Valve has become a glorified hobby shop where, if you're lucky and make connections with the right people, you're inducted into a rich boys and girls club. You get your salary and retirement taken care of, and you're free to play around with whatever in the presence of other prestigious geeks and enthusiasts. Steam is a mostly autonomous money printing machine, creating a little oasis utopia in the modern world where members need not worry about financial struggles their neighbours do. Valve is more like the Stonecutters as an organisation than anything else; if you're allowed to join, it's like winning the hedonistic lottery for hardware and software engineers. The gaming division of valve is merely a vestigial organ that no longer has much importance or relevance to the company. You interact with it as an employee mostly for stimulation. Looking to Valve for TF2 updates is like hoping for Amazon to go back to being a bookstore.
Valve outgrew their roots tbh. Why would you want to work on a game -that has been in development since 1999- or any game for that matter when you can work on neural interfacing and VR? If I had an IQ high enough to work at valve there’s not a chance in hell I’d work on TF.
The example you gave with the Soldier and Administrator at 7:32 is so funny and accurate to the entertainment industry as a whole lately. this whole "breaking the 4th wall = clever" is such a tired bit and I see it everywhere now. Characters don't need to take themselves seriously (and that wouldn't make sense in a game like TF2), but they should at least stay in character.
The sheer fact I can't talk in the chat or make callouts without paying I feel is what killed the game for me. Every time I try to go back and remember I can't have fun without paying, I quit
Tf2 is a game that didn’t become a battle royale, a pay to get a powerful character, have weird collaborations, and mostly doesn’t have "those people" (child predators) Truly a Valve game moment
I know this might seem out of place here, but a lot of what TheWhatShow has said in this vid can be brought across the entirety of the internet, it really seems that a lot of people nowadays really don't want to have a casual criticism type discussion, cause it really seems like if you disagree with people and give some pointers on something, they'll immediately shut down, be rude, and ignore you. It's honestly sad and upsetting to see this happening on lots of platforms, and I genuinely hate to say it, but I don't think that's ever going to change, this mentality of "I'm right so that means I'm good, and your wrong which means your bad" is very easy to adapt and use, and in which creates toxicity in a fandom or just the platform it's on.
Entitled people really are the bane of the generation, aren't they? People really need to learn how to take actual criticism without immediately turning into an angry caricature of Soldier.
It's much easier to have that attitude when your arguing with a faceless person. On the internet, we don't believe were arguing with people most of the time, were just attacking our idea of what they are.
Excellent points. My motivation to make videos severely fell when CS2 released, and I was thinking just the other day "they killed the game I loved". I also loved what you said about criticism at the end. Its very important stuff to remember.
My hours went from 200 to about 600 in a year. and now, just 2 months after that, I'm at 710.9 hours. I didn't like TF2 at first, but it's grown on me. To the point where I've been yearning for the end of the school day to play more TF2. I can't remember the last time I was waiting to get home to play a game.
I always thought saying the words "Zesty Jesus" in front of the mirror three times automatically gets you cancelled on Twitter and compromises all one's contacts. My life is a lie!!
It’s really amazing to see support for this dying platform to stay for years to come. Being on the game for about 8(ish) months or so, I really love the game. But this video spoke to me so much. I don’t understand why Valve thinks so little of us, where we are trying to keep the rotting beams in the cave held up until Valve will come and support those beams for us, but they really think keeping around servers is enough, and yearly community-made content for holidays is good enough. We haven’t had support for the game 100,000 people love in what is basically 6 years at this point, pushing rushed (again,) community made content to feed us into believing support from the devs will come soon. But, no. It seems day after day it’s only becoming more of a pipe dream rather than reality.
I think that a lot of this split comes from the fact that many new fans came into TF2 after the game stopped receiving regular updates and don’t know what things were like before. (Speaking from experience, I arrived post-Jungle Inferno myself.)
Criticism is needed to keep the community in a healthy condition. Trying to keep criticism away will only divide and hurt the community rather than improve and strengthen the community. Criticism is needed, even harsh criticism
Ya know I've always wondered if anyone else cared as much as Funke or Zesty did for the overall uniqueness of the game and The what yet again proved thier points. And he's not a coatrider or anything he's a guy like many who loves this game and he's doing somthing many people on the internet fear. . . The Simple truth and honesty that someone has for somthing. So can this community be honest with itself? if everyone just keeps treating other people who wanna preserve the game like villians?
I agree 100 percent with you. It seems any actual criticism of anything related to tf2 anymore. I’ve been blocked called names and just ignored by the people who make content for the game. It seems like you can’t say anything anymore without being stereotyped by these people.
this was kind of like a wake up call. TF2 was one of those games I looked up to, and looked forward to getting. It's aesthetic was really cool. When I got it, it was great, and still is (this was around 2022, when the bot crisis somehow wasn't as bad). It's just the fact that Valve doesn't even bother making their own content anymore, although the community has made very good content. I personally believe that we either try the SaveTF2 thing again, or (maybe not the best idea), we do a peaceful protest near Valve HQ, where we dress up like TF2 characters, or other ignored game characters from other ignored games. Still, this may not be the _best_ idea, it may have Valve respond quicker. Just my opinion though.
Fun fact this is the first time in Team Fortress 2 history where I didn’t even do my Halloween contracts. My love for Team Fortress 2 has died out. If this was old TF2 it would never die out but, I can only take so many years of bots and lack of updates. Team Fortress 2 is no longer Team Fortress 2.
Wish more TF2tubers were more real with it's audience. Get off the meds and take off "the image" mask and be real for one second about this game and the state it's in. Preserving this game would be something that should be our best interest as of now, because of how modern gaming is. Sadly those players who come from those modern FPS games; they will think something like prophunt or zombie infection is good for tf2. Yes, those v-script gamemodes is effectively "content". But it's not content that fits the game. It's soulles, it's a shameless money grab. Would it kill TF2? No. But would it hurt of what TF2 effectively IS? Definitely. It would bring in more people that weren't interested in the game to begin with, that are just here for the wacky hats and gamemodes. And with that, more gamemodes would get in, more maps, effectively bloating the game to the point of where it dies under it's own weight, and those players will all leave when Fortnite 2 comes out. Gatekeeping is healthy for some games, and that is basically what TF2 needs at this point in time, since Valve couldn't care less about it.
Second comment: TF2 for me has one thing that has never changed: Teamwork, and life lessons. TF2 taught me that a team game is more than just the individual encounters unless it's 2Fort. It's about, you guessed it, teamwork. Being there when you're needed, being a credit to the team, and leading others onto their feet to becoming mad war dogs. The gameplay is what I feel won't change. But the style... Why...
What I'll say about the cosmetics and warpaints is that yeah, a lot of them are silly and wacky, and a lot are only getting sillier and wackier. I agree that we need some feedback and quality control to keep bad cosmetics out of the game. But also, I think it's important to consider that one of the ways cosmetics add to the fun of the game is by giving the players the freedom to choose what they want to look like. It can give a sense of uniqueness or identity to the players that want that. So if some cosmetics added to the game or thrown around the workshop are just a little on the silly side, I don't see as much of a problem with that, cause even if a few people don't like it, someone else probably does. As long as it's not disrupting gameplay (like the red team pyro example you showed) I don't see a problem with people dressing however they like in-game.
Totally agree with you on how every game is trying to be more kawaii and vibrant. I tried some halo infinite multiplayer, and there were Spartans with cat ears on their helmets. Uninstalled the game shortly after. I wish studios would learn that not everything has to be Overwatch or Fortnight
the problem with vscript gamemodes is that everyone wants to be the next vsh but very little want to put in the effort to make a gamemode as good as vsh
I refuse to believe that COD actually has some cringy 3-frame cat png "battlebuddy" with catchphrases that make the story writing of Borderlands 3 look like a Shakespearean novella. You have to be pulling me leg with this one thewhatshow man.
15:30 One of the worst comparisons I've ever heard, and an even weaker excuse for not wanting to include Prop Hunt. In reality, those who oppose adding new stuff like Prop Hunt are like people who hate pineapple on pizza. Even though it doesn't really bother them and they can just ignore it, they still hate that pineapple could be a pizza topping and think it ruins the whole pizza.
No, he's got a point Prophunt/Hide and seek do not really belong in a first person SHOOTER. They may work in something like Among us, or in truly sandbox games, but not in a game that is a team-based shooter at its core. Sure, TF2 and source games in general are flexible, but they still set the boundaries of what is its core gameplay should be. Plus, people by and large just play around with new gamemodes and then return to upward/badlands/2fort or other official game modes. Which means that majority is interested in playing CORE TF2, not in a new wacky unique gamemode, or at least not to the same level as they are interested in vanilla TF2. But by your point, why not officially add prop hunt to CS? Hell, why not officially add RP to casual TF2? Why not add battle cards minigame, or chess, but with guns? Or football with guns (oh, right, passtime. And its dead).
@@PretzelsWithSalt I don't care about what other games do, that's not really important here, the main point is TF2. It's pretty clear that players will go back to the main game after trying out the new mode. That's no surprise. These new game modes are just for the occasion and they're also only around once a year. So, if you don't want to play them, you don't have to. Why worry if it changes the core game of TF2? It only affects the game mode and everything goes back to normal after the event is gone. Look at how Saxton Hale and zombies added cool stuff to the game. Did they change the game forever? No, once they were gone, the game was the same as before. So, let's not be too stuck smoking on that nostalgia pack, I get change can be scary but it can also be good. Just keep an open mind.
@@lookitsash5765 Counterpoint: If I wanted to play hide and seek, why wouldn't I go play Garry's mod, or Roblox, or any other game that is either a sandbox or can be molded appropriately? I play Casual TF2 to play TF2, a.k.a fight over territories as one of the opposite teams, not to play minigames that can only function somewhat decently. For Jailbreak or TF2ware I can always go on community servers. Why have them added into vanila TF2, even if on seasonal basis? With Zombies, I was never interested and from what I heard, it was either mid or terrible (balance-wise), plus the fact that engineer exists kinda makes me not wanna play as zombies. And VSH, I'd say that it's still a PVP where you can at least *fight back* against opposition, instead of hoping that you picked a decent spot and that explosive classes with medics won't bother carpet bombing the room I'm in. Speaking of, recent Prophunt is, in my opinion, worse than OG prophunt because of class variety. There (at least when implementing properly) you had been playing as pyros and scouts, and had to worry about your health decreasing when you fire aimlessly, so it discouraged from aimlessly firing the whole map, rendering hiding team's efforts pointless. Here, you have medics and demos, not to mention engineers who can *build sentries that can detect hiding props* (or at least could, idk if they fixed it or not). Now you don't have to worry about health management, and can merrily bomb the whole room with medic up your ass and call it good gameplay. So again, why would I play worse hide and seek, when I can play one that is better, but happens to be either a different game with hide and seek rules in mind, or a version of it for sandbox games, where it would still work better than in this game that had never been made with hide and seek in mind in the first place. It's like playing shooter while playing grand strategy
@@PretzelsWithSalt You're free to play whatever you want, but it's so stupid to oppose the addition of new ideas to a game simply because you dislike the idea. How can we determine what works and what doesn't without trying first? Notice how you didn't play the zombies mode, yet it had no impact on the core mechanics outside of that specific game mode or your regular TF2 gameplay? If Prop Hunt was added and it turned out to be shit, then at least we would know. It wouldn't affect anything afterwards. If you're going to be gatekeeping a 16-year-old game just because of one RUclips video, you should come up with a better argument. Complaining about this is like being upset about pineapple as a pizza topping, when nobody is forcing you to put it on your pizza.
@@lookitsash5765 I mean, at the end of the day, Prophunt/hide and seek-esque minigame is really different from the FPS genre. Like, chili sauce on cake different. Can we agree on that? I'm not against new game modes, hell, just last week I've been playing nothing but VSH. But I still don't think that something like Hide and seek in FPS game is not a good idea. Also, I remembered playing old prophunt few years ago, and mostly I remembered just sitting and scrolling my phone while waiting to be caught. IMHO, prophunt is just generally boring (as hiders) Also, off-topic, but I love pineapple pizza. It's the only type of pizza I've been eating for past 5-6 months, if not longer.
feedback is incredibly useful for the improvement of workshop items. however, i really think it's worth emphasizing that there is an art to criticism - people are *hilariously* bad at giving feedback that is useful to creators, even when creators are receptive to criticism. there are plenty of times where all you get is "this is too detailed" or "make it look less shit." all this does is state your dissatisfaction with zero meaningful direction for the creator to try and work off of. creators can try to guess or intuit the critic's intent, but it's so much more helpful for critics to actually write what they specifically dislike about something, and it's even better if they can attempt to give you legitimate suggestions or ideas. you know, something like "this seems like its a bit noisy - can you try adjusting the contrast between the [x] and the [y]? or heavily simplify/remove the [z]?" or even "the colors look a bit weird, id suggest bringing the [a] closer to [b]." that isn't even getting into feedback that, even if specific, is legitimately nonsensical. as a personal example, i once got feedback on a war paint that read, "i think there should be a bit more wear on it."
18:45 - "TF2 is one of the last great First Person Shooters untainted by modern day bullshit." I disagree. TF2 was among the first games to adopt lootbox-style monetization, which doesn't get enough flak. It also indulged in many promotional IP crossovers (Max's Severed Head, The Machina, Shred Alert, etc.) which you criticize other games for, yet do not hold TF2 to the same standard. And at the risk of invoking "Death of an Art Style", it did in fact dilute its coherent art direction with increasingly outlandish cosmetics and particle effects to get people to spend money. Comparing the live-service model of TF2 to those of OW and COD, the only fundamental difference is that the latter two are still actively supported by the developers, while the former isn't.
Its so funny that all Valve needed to do was fix the bot crisis and 100% of the playerbase would've been happy with a stagnant 2017 TF2 for the rest of time. Now all we have is rushed gamemodes and bad cosmetics, as well as the bot crisis at the same time. Truly immaculate.
Funny you talk about modern games being colorful senory overloads when TF2 was that to the shooters of 2007 when it released. I remember old CoD heads calling TF2 a baby's shooter just because of the bright cartoony artstyle. And now that everyone's doing it TF2 is the 'more mature' game. I always find it interesting when people say a game has a 'soul', like its some static thing that never changes. That the devs that made TF2 back in 2007 aren't people and can't change their opinion on what makes TF2 what it is over 16 years of development. I majorly changed my opinions over a lot of stuff in just 5 years so I can imagine the rollercoaster the devs have had to go through, what with the behind-the-scenes dumpsterfire of updates like EoTL and Invasion as well as the up front dumpsterfire that was MYM. Most updates now are pretty much just community showcases; showing off workshop maps and items while Valve makes some money off of them. Zombie Invasion was rushed because official VSH was completely unprecedented and everyone scrambled to make their own once they figured out Valve was going to add community gamemodes. Simple as. I might be an asshole for saying this but I'm glad CS2 released in a dogshit state. The majority of CS 'players' were pseudo-crypto/NFT bros riding off the CS2 hype to drive skin sales to ridiculous heights. Now that CS2 released and sucks these players are leaving en-masse and skin prices are actually reasonable now for the average player. So whenever they do finish the game, the player economy will likely be in a much better state. This is going to come off really harsh, but I think you should quit TF2. Not permanently, but it's kind of clear to me playing TF2 has become an obligation rather than entertainment to you. Dabble in a few indie games maybe; not once in your rant about modern shooters did I see you talk about Battlebit Remastered, which is very much that old CoD feeling if you're okay with the Roblox graphics which was intentionally choosen so low end PCs can run it. It's not a massive game by any means; it's player numbers are lower than OW2's despite being hearlded as the savior of the FPS genre, but it scratches that old style game itch. Tells you how much gamers are actually interested in saving gaming when they won't support games that do it right LMAO.
TF2 is reaching the point where it's only really enjoyable in bursts and breaks. And even that's wearing off. A game of it's caliber can only last so long without meaningful content before getting stale.
They should literally do what Fortnite does and reset the "world" back to 2008. and give us monthly updates up to the 2016. version and then loop to infinity. Would buy that for a dollar!
Honesty, my best advice for situations like this is just to leave the game behind for a little while. Does it suck initially? Absolutely, missing out on the new content of the game you love is not fun. But if that new content is sub-par at best, and bring in more issues than anything else. Then is it really bad that you're missing out on that content. Best to take a break from the game. That break might be a long time, but it's better than to be negative about said game, or just dwell on the past. I'll probably make video about that soon, who knows. The point I'm trying to make is that if the game you play is slowly starting to make you not like the experience of it, well...just go away from it for now. Yeah you can talk about your frustrations with the game, but the community has shown that they rather not listen to feedback more than anything. So best to leave the game alone for better pastures. Hell, now would be a great time to make variety content if I'm being honest. That's just me though.
I think it's a fair point to mention and not one I really address in the video, but (for the most part) tf2's crossovers actually fit within the game's style. Crossover's like the deus ex weapons, the shogun/sleeping dogs packs, poker night items. All of these fit the game's aesthetic very well. Take a look at a game like Fortnite. All of the style it has has slowly evaporated as so many crossovers of so many different styles have been added the game is a total clustertruck of IPs. With some exceptions, I think TF2 is the best game to do IP crossovers.
@@TheWhatShow Although you have crossover items which are usually made with quality or care, just do not fit the game that well. Take an IP like Arkham Batman which was added in 2015, and the cosmetics they chose. It is well made, but does it fit? Take a look at the Wilson Weave or the Bioshock items. They're really zany for TF2 standards with the Sydney Strawboat being an expection. My problem is that a lot of these hats may be well made, just does not fit the games aesthetic or direction. I'd also like to argue with Fortnite and COD is that their charm for these crossovers is that it is so zany and funny in the first place is why it is charming. Like, they are not worried about the game's style it is not their intent. They just want to add something over the top or zany and have fun with it. I mean COD already has other worldly or zombie stuff and magic bows that shoot electricity. Would it really be that ridiculous if you could play as Homelander or Snoop Dogg? Similar effect with Fortnite, you already have crazy zany elements like boogie bombs, buff cats, giant banana people, giant chrome kingdoms, is it really that aeshtetically different if they collabs with Peter Griffin or Goku? I think it fits the game's attitude. You raise a good point about the monetization of these games, and how expensive and predatory it can be.
![Pyro's Misunderstood Item [TF2]](/img/1.gif)
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7:33 nice reference
the shylilly flavor is peak lmao
For me I don't see #saveTF2 as a complete waste of time because on British and European servers there are almost 0 bots on them. 11:40. Thank you and all the rest of you who done that amazing movement saved tf2.
Zesty
Correction: Shakespearicles was the one who invented rocket jumping. Lincoln invented stairs because he was tired of rocket jumping.
It's strange to think that, but the fact that TF2 got abandoned by Valve meant that we never saw it devolve into having a Battle Royale mode. Silver lining, something-something.
TF2 is the enigma of the typical game life cycle, it’s very old by now and it’s kinda heartwarming to know a community is still standing strong on it
it's like win at the cost of happiness
Ok but genuinely a Battle Royale mode would fit better than prop hunt lol
Well... there is arena mode.
Source is single-threaded. There's no way it can do battle Royale without a complete engine change. That would take effort.
It's really upsetting to me that Valve, a company infamous for doing literally everything at a snail's pace, has begun to rush out just about everything they do now.
Well that's the thing. They don't. All they rush out wasn't even done by them. Which makes it even worse, in my opinion. They haphazardly throw low quality user created content into the game without any sort of quality control and then rake in the free money from the cosmetics they had no part in creating.
Valve has been using their fans as sweatshop workers, as free labor, while themselves not even doing the bare minimum, for a long while now, and it's mind boggling to me how no one is calling them out for it. If it was any other game company they would get torn to shreds over this.
Did you know that cats can be gay lesbian or bisexual? :3
@@Freckle_McMurraypiss off
they rushed the hell outta cs2's release
It's because there is only 2 people working on TF2.
Correction: Abraham Lincoln invented stairs because he was tired of rocket jumping. Which is even better.
i was shakespear who invented rocket jump right?
then he proceeded to try to rocket jump up the stairs and died
@@pichonalpalo he invented the rocket launcher, not sure about the jumping because the wiki doesnt specifically say that
@@pichonalpalo no I don't think you're tf2niverse shakespear(icles)
I knew that my new item description is correct!
It’s a wild concept to me that people that started after jungle inferno will never know the joy of getting a new weapon added to the game and the balance that will come once added.
):
There are so many things newer players miss that I wish they could enjoy. Back then having an update with all the new changes and additions (certainly larger than holiday ones) was something you could *regularly* anticipate. You were sure Valve would deliver. This anticipation is most likely never going to appear again, and as much as I’ve moved on, it is still a disheartening thought to what once was.
not only that,u cant chat as a f2p without paying money
@@PersonMann I remember staying up for the Midnight release of the Pyromania Update and being the 72nd person to craft the Scorch Shot which I still have to this day. New updates were a event, You would Pre-Load the Patch and it would almost feel like a brand new game released. Now I don't even notice TF2 has updated until I check the download queue for steam.
as someon who only started playing in 2023 i wish they still added new weapons
Its changed for sure. But its still the only game I can play, take long breaks, come back to, and still have reliable fun.
Nowadays you can't leave a multiplayer game for 6 months without needing to completely relearn the game
True i think its a pretty big problem
@@gamingtime9716you cant take a break from tf2 without needing to relearn it, thats how video games work
@gamingtime9716 yeah unfortunately we aren't the demographic most modern games cater to. Many games for those playing 10+ hrs per day/spending $100 per month on cosmetics.
@@gamertime8958??? That's the entire reason the game is good.
Has TF2 changed? Yes. Will TF2 die? Probably not.
It may not die, but what would be the cost?
@@HiddenWinglerat cost of their own community
true@@lautystrike1
Naan Tf2 is too good and legendary to die and it’s might as well be the most alive game in gaming history and that in itself is an achievement
The sooner we finally accept it will likely die the better, Valve does not change, they're deaf, As much as i'd like to believe in a miracle, with a lack of proper content updates and the increasing age and unease of the playerbase it seems very unlikely, I do still do what i can to keep the game alive, which is to make it accessible to friends, gatekeep and criticise and thats never gonna change
every tf2 update to me is just "woow so many new maps!" *boots up upward and badwater*
👎
Yup, this checks out
Yep. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
*boots up 2fort*
tbh i don’t like most of the maps
This could have all been fixed if the stinky and smelly unusual effect was added
Truest statement I ever heard
Well we have Flies effect, just find a brown hat
@@Piece-Of-Timeno it’s stinky and smelly or the highway
@@Piece-Of-Time no it’s stinky and smelly or the highway
it's inching closer and closer to modern gaming, when the reason so many people like it is for how unique the game is and how it's one of the only remaining bastions of old school...
that ice cream analogy is great, btw :p
@@mini_heknot really, the analogy kinda sucked, its less like if you got a green olive on your sundae and more if the waiter brought you the ingredients to make whatever sundae you wanted with a few ingredients you dont like, you dont have to make the sundae with them and if you do and complain youre an idiot
When I first started as a medic main, especially in mvm, I would always ask my more experienced teammates what I could be doing better. Sometimes it hurts a little, but I needed to read it because it meant being a more dependable and supportive medic. Listening to criticism can hurt, but ultimately it for the best. Its like a flu shot. Does it hurt and make that spot sore? Yes, but it helps your immune system fight the flu.
And the more criticism you receive, the less painful it becomes. I remember being a little kid and being terrified of doing something wrong, but now it's almost like a normal part of life. You'll mess up, and other people will correct you. It's just how it is, ya know?
tf2 delivers fun with it's gameplay and possibilities instead of events, content updates and fomo.
I think scream fortress might just create fomo
Bro hates Fortnite
it ain't that bad bruh chill
@@insert-qk5rv no i don't, i'm just saying that base core of tf2 is so much fun and has endless skill ceiling that by itself it keeps you playing, same base game it is since 2007. and that's why tf2 survived till this day without any major changes made to it.
@@擻 then what was the point of that indirect jab towards it on the latter half of your sentence? Those are all popular criticisms of fortnite, is it wrong of me to assume that's what you're getting at? (I agree with what you're saying about TF2 btw, just why do you have to put something else down to praise it?)
@@insert-qk5rvindirect jab at fortnite? dude literally all he said was events constant rushed content updates and fomo. thats not a indirect jab at fortnite, thats a direct jab at modern gaming which has just had such a degraded quality over the years, one very good example being the CoD franchise, they're actually making the exact same game over and over rebrand it then pump it out for an excessive amount of money, they're complimenting that tf2 doesnt do this and is probably why it still lasted to this day
TF2 updates have always been a strange case to me
Strange case? I'll offer you 5 keys for that
Does it have a universal killstreak on it too?
*_Can you make it festive?_*
Australium too?
Glints available?
I actually kinda like that tf2 is left the hell alone. The seasonal stuff is a quick distraction (or a long one with Halloween contracts) and then im back to playing my usual rotation of maps. I'm old, i dont like change.
Tf2 would be fine where it is if there weren’t bots and cheaters everywhere.
@@TJ-hg6opSeriously all valve needs to do is
Make a new anti cheat
Fix the janky bugs
Rebalance some weapons
And from their just heavily cherry pick good stuff from the workshop 3 times in one year. Maybe 1-2 Smissmas and Scream-fortress maps and 3-5 really good Casual Maps in the summer.
Seriously tf2 has proved time and time again that it can keep itself alive just fine by being an immovable piece of video game history that both old and new gamers would eventually try out at some point sooner or later. All valve has to do is just make sure to keep bots and cheaters out of the game, that's all they have to damm do.
@@DaRealDemobird Yeah, TF2 may not be even close to the mother load that is Steam as a whole, but I still think it would be worth it to support this game just a bit more. I don’t need any new updates with new crap I don’t need. I want balanced weapons, no bots, no cheaters, no snip- and that should be all. Thats all it takes for this game to be functioning. While it is more popular than ever, there is so much untapped potential for it to grow bigger if the first experiences of the players wasn’t horrible bots.
@@TJ-hg6op the game's source code was leaked like what, 2-3 times already? To fix the bot issue, the whole game engine would need to be revamped, and porting to S2 would fracture the player base, cuz a good portion of dedicated players still run on terribly outdated hardware. This ain't no longer a anti-cheat issue ever since the bot crisis
The demoman reload animation is broken still to this day since the game came out
Nah, when the game came out, it worked fine. I'm pretty sure it was Gun Mettle that broke it after they switched to the new viewmodel system for decorated weapons. Same with Spy's revolver.
@@evdestroy5304it broke im pretty sure after they changed demo’s grenade launcher clip size to 4 from 6, but that didnt help either, i miss the old viewmodels so much
There's an alternate universe where TheWhat was a KH youtuber.
Theres an au where tf2 is kingdom hearts
Glad someone else noticed the twilight town theme music
@@FerinitheBloodHuskyno I mean, there's a universe where there were hackers in the games he played, so he went back to playing KH and became a big Square Enix fan and eventually became a KH youtuber. It's not like tf2 didn't have some hackers back then
Regular Pat but sillier.
Finally some person I can relate to, I am also very tired of pretending that tf2 is a "great wonderland for everyone and everything". Thank you for this video.
Yeah its never been that its always been a cesspool of filth and garbage tbh
It just got abandoned, you talk like the entire game turned into corporate-gambling scheme like others.
@@nnnnmhughuuhhjiijj9457 tf2 is a corporate gambling scheme, its a shitty game made to push gambling.
@@nnnnmhughuuhhjiijj9457tf2 getting abandoned would be a better fate than the crap they're shoehorning into the game.
1000% right.
You really brought up great points, especially the whole “BE POSITIVE OR BE QUIET” garbage. This is really what TF2 needs, thank you.
As a newer player myself(joined right at the end of 2017), I'm frankly surprised at how other newer players could accept this stuff. Maybe it's because I have a better understanding of these things as an artist myself but I still dont see how any regular person could accept it either
I joined in july of 2023 and still regret not joining earlier
But i really just cant agree more with thewhat, im a silly gibbus hat player who likes to conga around the entire map (most of the time if it happens) with little to no cosmetics and i still enjoy it despite not being able to communicate, have all the weapons bc TF2 at its core is SO original, So perfect and so funny that its one of the oldest yet most played games in gaming history
Yet the constant money hungriness of other companies with battle passes, so many tryhards or serious players acting, being all homo, s'xist and racist type of profiles, chats and weeb stuff
The invasion of bots and hackers all in the name of "fun and getting reactions and attention" while valve not even letting its community fix the problems,
And thewhat made a really good point on the feedback thing, sometimes some people often see opinions (both pos and neg) as cancel attempts, critisism is something that can give you an idea to make both sides like the end product.
Some People these days and in the past just dont act with empathy, kindness and understanding.
Respect is the key.
@@The_Content_Train_1201 welcome to the community mate, i've been playing the game for a decade and its still weird to me that there are new fans lol
@@The_Content_Train_1201 you rly should check out comunity servers.
I joined around late 2018 and at first I was ok with the tacky cosmetics because it was funny. But overtime as I learnt about people that didn’t like these cosmetics I started to realise that they were unhealthy for the game and am now in support of keeping the original style of tf2.
>newer player
>started playing 6 years ago
I'm gonna be completely honest I've been a 2fort/doublecross dweller for around 7 years now I'd say and the game still holds up but something I've noticed lately is that there haven't been many bots on ctf compared to other gamemodes. I don't know why that is but who knows.
Also the new smissmas update is actually kinda good, decent maps and good cosmetics. Hope the valve servers never shut down
How do you tolerate those meme maps man lol. I only started playing this game back in 2020 (yes in the middle of the mega bot crisis) and I am already sick of the tomfollery there.
I can see how bots would want to avoid CTF maps. They're designed to follow specific paths, so they can't handle irregular intel positions particularly well. Not that a bot would even go for it.
@dragonandavatarfan8865 as someone who has played since 2013, you get bored of it, go play an objective gamemode, realize why you don't play objective gamemodes (your team refuses to cooperate and/or the matches are incredibly unbalanced), and go back to playing the closest thing to tdm you can.
I think if you're worried that the standard for what is accepted into the game is slipping (and for the record, I agree that it is), the feedback should be directed at Valve. Blaming workshoppers for getting their unfinished or sub-standard designs accepted by Valve is like blaming a dog for doing a bad job working at a toll booth. Someone hired a dog. Blame them. Wutville is the perfect example of this.
I've seen a lot of people saying that #saveTF2 didn't work, so now we're all out of options for communicating with Valve. I don't really understand why. Since when was there a rule that we only get to raise awareness once? I see no reason why #saveTF2 couldn't be a yearly thing until Valve actually follows up. Why did we give up on the solution that makes the most sense - and more importantly - hurts the least amount of people?
thats a good point
I agree with this as a newer tf2 player, The community's voice should be heard
I don't think workshoppers are to blame. However the strange workshop is a public forum where people upload their work to relieve feedback. Valve themself encourages this with a rating system, discussion page, and comment thread for each submission. So while you can't blame workshoppers if something is accepted, what we can do is give honest and fair feedback on the quality of the submission.
And as far as savetf2 goes, there is definitely more we could do. I've been theorizing some potential future campaigns that might help.
Ehhhh I kind of disagree. Like TheWhat said there are forms where your stuff can get feed back on many platforms without workshop uploads. And I get having the issue with first time devs, but there are devs out there who make garbage and have gotten their garbage picked BY valve and choose to make more garbage because they know it'll get picked. A lot of the trash Halloween and Christmas skins and hats come from the *same* guys who make new shitty stuff that gets chosen and they know it will
Valve doesn't care for the game, do you really, honest to god, believe the guy adding maps to tf2 is somehow playing in them, that he's somehow forming a 24 player match to test if the gameplay and team balance is good?
Obviously is Valve's fault, because they are the owner of the franchise but as I said, they just don't care, the responsibility falls on us, the tf2 community to push only the good maps, the good taunts and the good cosmetics so that Valve is forced to add quality into the game, because is well known at this point they won't make any effort.
I've said it multiple times, and I'll say it again, community-added gamemodes peaked with VSH. I wish that instead of Zombie Fortress, we just got more VSH because I believe that the problem with VSH was that most of its popularity was hype. It is a damn good gamemode that not only updates the classic Juggernaut style gameplay, but makes it fun for hours upon hours on end! I only stopped playing because every match I entered was more VSH, and I'd love to go back now that it's been a while.
Zombie Fortress gave us an idea of how things could go wrong with community gamemodes, Prop Hunt, (thank God it didn't get added) would've been just too much.
I think from the moment the game shifted mainly towards community support, that's when the game started to be a whole different thing.
It is in tone and atmosphere a very different game than the original release.
It's sad we'll never get to see the full spy thriller experience Valve started with, but that ship has sailed a long time ago
As someone who's had a steam account since 2013, I really can relate to some of the stuff you said in this video, especially about all the modern garbage from games like COD, Fortnight or even Rainbow Six Siege (which used to be one of my favourite games). Its such a shame to see big developers run their games head first into the ground just for the sake of bleeding their players dry or what not thus changing the games identity. Excellent video overall though.
Personally i think fortnite is fine, cod has been going downhill since 2017 and siege is so sweaty and boring
@@CloudstreefCoD's been declining since Advanced Warfare. Many people attribute the last good cod as Black Ops 2 and say Ghosts was the falloff point, but at least Ghosts felt like a genuine attempt that just happened to fall flat.
Fortnite BR never had an identity, it was this free side mode that just so happened to blow up. It gets so much hate for being the "catalyst for modern gaming," but here's my counter point: shouldn't you also hate on FIFA for being the "catalyst" for lootboxes?
@@cubix_walrus7560Ghosts was a banger, I dunno why people disliked it so much
@@thedecentgamer7818 the main criticisms were that the story was poorly written and contrived, the multiplayer's kill times were too quick and the maps were too large and confusing for the size of lobbies, and that Extinction was a poor man's Left 4 Dead
I feel like slowly more and more people are waking up to this first it was zesty, then it was fish sticks and now even thewhat is realising this. I hope valve reconises what's happening with other titles and not fall into the same trap
Valve probably recognized it already, but just can't bother putting in the work to avoid it
Tf2 during the server era was peak afternoon for me
Great video, honestly.
Whilst I can admit I'm more of a newer player compared to most boomers (I joined around the time Gun Mettle released), I can absolutely see why people think the way they do with the recent cosmetics, maps and gamemodes as of late. I was one of the people who originally defended Prop Hunt as a gamemode to be added, but looking back on it, I don't think I'd actually play it that much and I know it'd lose it's novelty quickly.
I've gone on record saying that the community needs to chill out a bit, and I do still stand by it. Even if you see a cosmetic that you don't like on the workshop, instead of being an ass about it, people should just explain why they don't like it respectfully. Admittedly, I know nothing about making items themselves (I've made 1 actual item promo poster currently) but I know that it's difficult to make something good, especially if it's someone's first attempt at it.
I really wished SaveTF2 went somewhere. We got a couple of things out of it, but the main problem still hasn't been fixed, which is really saddening. I originally planned to do a stream of me and some friends just playing on Wutville for a laugh, and literally every single server was infested with at least 3 bots on each team, making it damn near impossible to play, so we ended up moving onto playing 2Fort and Doublecross right before the new update launched. I still have copium that they'll eventually do something about it, but as of right now, no amount of items, maps, taunts, unusuals or game modes are going to fix the core underlying issue.
Also, I'm seeing a lot of comments about how TF2 has had crossovers in the past, and yeah, that's true. The last official crossover items we got were the Disgaea PC items, which were released in 2016, over 7 years ago. Valve had stopped adding crossover items for years at this point so I don't really see that good of a reason to bring it up.
oh hey did not expect you here
I know this isn't exactly the point here, but...
I love my Prinny hat, fanny pack, and knife.
I honestly think this is the most mature response I've seen talking about modern tf2, amazing video
Well-made video. However, though I agree with most of your points, my opinion on the Workshop Creator vs. Gatekeeper issue differs.
Workshop submissions are not in the game. And the only one who judges what to add to the game is Valve. If Valve decides to pick sloppy, crappy, out-of-style items or maps, no one can stop them. And it so happened in that way for years.
And after the recent Prop Hunt drama, some people started to point guns at Workshop Creators for creating subpar submissions and actively trying to gatekeep. Review bombing, insulting, spreading hate.
So I think like this: "Is it fair to gatekeep those subpar submissions from the Workshop out of existence when Valve, who's in charge of quality control, isn't doing their job?"
Even if they manage to gatekeep all subpar creators out of the Workshop, Valve still can pick sloppy cosmetics submitted back in 2007. It solves nothing.
And Workshop creators, including you, start from somewhere subpar. Mediocre. They grow from healthy feedback and proper criticism, and some create bangers at the end.
But people reacting overly sensationally towards the sentence 'Defending TF2's purity' seem to want to remove all the subpar submissions. This may discourage creators' fresh endeavors.
I'm not saying criticism is evil. It's a necessity for the greater good. But what I've seen in Workshop recently were... More of a personal attack than criticism and feedback, so.
I made a point in the video to mention this. The best thing for that can happen for the workshop is a healthy debate and fair criticism. Obviously trolls and gatekeepers will do much more harm than good, however on that same not it's not fair to lump people who give critiques on items into that same group.
Yeah the hate for workshop creators is undeserved and I think allot of them also just want to make the tf2 experience better
A lot of workshop stuff is lazy for a quick buck, less garbage and more genuine submissions would be better.
Can't blame valve when most of their options are animal heads.
@@ghoulbuster1that's bs. Tf2 has been around for a decade and a half and its workshop went live in 2011.
Even some of the creators of the dreaded all class smissmass hats, that barely fit into actual sets, and that I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole, have created great, or at least decent cosmetics.
Yes (constructive) critisism is required for the game and the community to prosper. Actual critisism is how workshop creators grow (like TheWhat).
But saying that Valve doesn't have many options apart from animal heads is silly.
(Plus I've seen many bad or mediocre cosmetics and not even half of them were animal head replacements)
Bad workshop submissions crowd out good ones and for that reason alone they should be criticized relentlessly.
TF2 hasn't been the same since they shoe horned matchmaking into the game snuffing out community servers and ushered unto us a 24/7 plague of bots that only exist as the match ruining force they are because they can just mindlessly spam the system and get funneled onto new players to harass.
I agree with the how the shoe horned matchmaking hurt the game by a lot, TF2 used to be about snail-pace matches in choke heavy maps like Cp_Dustbowl or around 10 quick matches on maps like Cp_Gorge, I remember how most friends on steam via TF2 were done through lengthy back-and-forward matches, voice or text chat, and further helped with mechanics such as domination and revenge, it really brought players into a more united experience, hell most of the time you joined a match someone voted to "extend current map" into absurd time limits.
Meet Your Match really was a calamitous mistake, but you can't ignore it looked promising at the time. If people didn't want an actual competitive mode, Valve wouldn't have botched it.
this saved my life thank you
this saved my life I hate you
ok
what's funny is that zesty said this like some months ago and then ppl are finally coming around to say hes right... but I'm a new player too, I only have 900 hrs on record and been playing since July 19th 2022. but I've been with this community since a couple months after blue moon.
I've seen the player base fall to its lowest at the peaks of the bot crisis, I remember thinking I'm never gonna play this game because no ones gonna be on to play it, I'm glad to say that I'm dead wrong, but it really does feel like quality is degrading. it feels that the one guy they got on this game simply isn't up to the task so he just substitutes with whatever he can find off the workshoppe.
YOU HAVE 900??? DAWG IVE BEEN PLAYING SINCE 2016 AND I ONLY HAVE 1.3K HOURS
@@QWERTY708100 I play a lot.. I'm a part-time employee with no outside/irl life and little friends, all of which online. games are the only way that I escape how sad my life is and make me feel like I'm doing something valuable with my time whilst I'm not working.
@@QWERTY708100 Hell, I've got both of you beat. I've been playing since ~2014 and only have around 400 hours.
That said, I burnout on games quickly, so I usually pop in, play a few dozen hours, then take a long break, before returning for some old fashioned fun.
I know that none of you probably care but I would beg to differ. I got my first laptop on Christmas 2023 and immediately got TF2 I had been watching vids on it for so long and was very ready to play it and once i did it was amazing to this day I am getting new weapons and finding new strategies it has not lost its charm to newbies even though its devs have left, it truly is an amazing experience and I’m shure it was different back than but new players like me are still just learning and improving it is just the perfect game
Tf2 hasn't been the same after they removed Madcap 😔
☹️
yea, im still mad they replaced him with sniper, madcap fit A LOT better and he only sucked because hitreg sucked even harder back then
Gone but not forgotten 😔
why does this guy wanna make schizo jokes like the arkham subreddit? is he stupid?
🫡
Valved replaced quick-play with Casual and added official Competitive in 2016, the year I joined.
The Last Major Update was 2017.
The last balance patch was 2018.
Valve servers are still flooded with bots since 2020, and chat is still disabled for F2Ps despite it not fixing the problem.
The only reason Valve still touches the game at all is to keep milking players with cosmetic updates.
At the end of the day, Valve is like every other gaming company. And as of the last decade or so, that means NOT providing a finished product, but instead stringing you along until you realize you've been ripped off.
I don't remember which TF2 video this quote is from, but it really stuck with me. It went something like "Everyone loves to praise TF2 so much, to celebrate it's genius game design and brilliant artstyle, but when you are criticizing it for changing for the worse, those same people will call you toxic" or something like that.
It’s from whathisname. The one people don’t talk about for some reason.
@@alpharius2omegaboogaloo384funny thing is it was a beloved RUclipsr that commented under Zestyjesus's video lol, it was Richterovertime that made the comment itself.
People’s entitlement to shut down any criticism is really worrying to me because it removes all the community discussion from the community. People want everything to be positive all the time because they keep making everything truly negative for themselves instead of just… being mature about any criticism even if harsh. Everyone should know that the world does not revolve around them, and that you should always consider what people have to say, unless they’re actually just not explaining themselves
Entitlement really seems to be the biggest problem with the modern world, doesn't it? All those people who've never been taught to temper their expectations or deal with criticism, set loose on a platform where their expectations are constantly pushed up and let down, and where every single person out there can criticize their work for any reason.
@@Spiritnick I think it’s also a sad case of thinking the world is against you. Every criticism somehow has to have malice behind it instead of care and thought to these folks, and it’s damaging to the creative community as a whole
I disagree. With the listening to everything everyone has to say. For example, some things are objectively bad and should never be practiced. Should you still hear what the person who wants it has to say? Not really.
I do not think anyone is really entitled for other people to hear them out unless they are specifically submitting content to people, or working in a job or a company- whenever you are working for or taking care of any other people basically. So for something like this, your point would make sense and I mostly agree with you. But in general, I don’t think so.
just edged to this video, thanks homie 🐐
I remember a comment on a, uh, certain video, that said something along the lines of "People never stop talking about how special tf2 is but will be angry at you for trying to protect what makes it special"
As a player since 2008 who took the account of my older cousin that stopped playing FPS games, TF2 was ASTRONOMICALLY different in community and vibe to what we have today. It was so much more warm, inviting, and fun back then when everything was new and voice chat in every match was common. Cradle that in with updates ALL the time, an ecstatic and excitable community of players, and none of the weirdos that inhabit the game nowadays and you got a grand A+ tier game that you literally could not stop playing for extended periods of time in fear you'd miss something like a major update or a community event. Weapons like the sandman were also usable (used to be my favourite Scout melee) and the game felt far more cartoonish and casual than it does today.
I will always look back on old TF2 very fondly. Especially the old surf, trade, and achievement servers that used to be loaded.
9:05 legit me as well, like i normally complete all of it, with some time to spare with friends, could not get this one done, but would love to see contracts used more in maps or something for smissmas
Also someone who saw tf2 around 2010, made an account late 2011, but mainly started playing around then, TF2 is not the same anymore, and no I don't want the game to go back fully to getting one map and some hats, but instead get like 3 maps, some hats, a new weapon, like jungle inferno, add stuff to contracts, some quality of life stuff for streamers and video makers, and most importantly, fix the fucking bot problem, that should be #1 just like for CS2, and they can't ignore CS2 for very long since some items in there make a ton of money for Valve.
Idk why people are so afraid to mention him or anything, but most of the stuff in this video is just what Zesty has been saying for quite some time, even though you put it in a calmer and non-aggressive way. I'm glad that more people and content creators start noticing and talking about this, that guy may be a bit of an hothead with a not-so-light vocabulary, and he often attacks groups he thinks responsible for the workshop "slop" (not new and beginning creators who don't know any better), but his passion about the game is real and the constructive criticism is also there. I wish more of tf2 content creators would get along (even if that's a bit impossible)
9:02 yup, same. Couldn’t do it, got like 5 contracts done. Wtf am I supposed to valve? Play all the 40 something maps just 24/7 day in day out?? Did anyone beat all the contracts this time around period??? Halloween used to be the only reason I got back into TF2, now I can’t even play that too. Get it together, valve.
Also I noticed that this is just a paraphrased zesty Jesus and CasualTF2 video. Not complaining though :P
can you imagine that in some games you have to first PAY to be able to unlock grindy ass missions like that in the first place
me skiping throught the sponser ship stopping at one part and hearing "my orphanage filled with victorian era kids" is very odd
i think part of the reason TF2 and fighting games have been on my mind so much is that they both have organic origins for passion on players and they built stuff like competitive by the community, and that they are much more human experiences than the tipical team shooter with 7 figure prize pools. it's nice. that's it really. nice.
Just a small point covered in your video but I do find it interesting how in recent years how aggressive younger fans have become toward older fans. This goes for a lot of games and setting, Warhammer 40k is currently facing a very similar issue to the one you outlined in this video. Older communities try and approach new fans saying "We are happy you are here. Here we have a set of minimum standards.We have these standards for the benefit of everyone." and then get attacked and accused of gatekeeping. Its really frustrating sometimes honestly. You don't want to keep people out, but when you invite them in they have zero respect for whats already been built and demand it change to meet their passing interest. Then they move on leaving whatever damage they cause behind and leaving some older fans so frustrated they become hostile to any future newcomers. Rant over.
The only people who complain about "gatekeeping" are the kinds of people you don't want to have in your fanbase.
On the one hand, yes, gatekeeping spreads some serious toxicity that just ruins a good thing for people and keeps people from ever trying something they might actually enjoy.
On the other hand, it's a necessary evil. Gatekeeping keeps people you wouldn't want in the community anyway from ever becoming part of it.
It's neither completely good nor completely bad, it's just that nobody has any idea how to use it properly.
As someone who is kind of a 'newcomer' to TF2 (played for the first time on 2018, but genuinely started playing at the beginning of 2021), this really got to me.
I can relate to a lot of games I used to play when I was younger that suddenly fell off and became something different, not able to resemble any of the energy they once had. By just a couple of months of playing, I realized TF2 is a timeless masterpiece, and it's now one of my favorite games of all time, so seeing it get ignored by Valve (who has also crafted some other of my favorite games of all time) is like a spit on my face and a kick to the balls. As a community, we can only keep on pushing so the last remains of content this game gets are up to quality, and not some Prop Hunt shit that belongs on Gmod.
TF2 will live one, because it's a hell of a game, and we can only try to keep up and pray someday, Valve listens.
Agreed with most of the video. I think more people need to understand that the quality and quantity of the content matters. We don't need dozens of maps and cosmetics of wildly varying quality. Im glad Valve seems to be picking better stuff from the workshop, but they shouldnt add so much maps and only pick a handful of good ones otherwise it will end up doing more harm than good.
This video really just reminds me of a bad thought i occasionally have. "What happens if tf 2 shuts down or dies for good?" i know it sounds absurd but all things come to an end sometime, i just hope the current situation of the game improves and we get many more years with the game and characters we love. (im a really new fan but i still agree with what was said in the video and people are just way too sensitive these days)
Valve may very well shut down official support within the next 10 years. It's less of "will they" and more "when will they". Besides that, there will still be community servers where you will be able to join, I'd be willing to bet in another 15 years there will still be people playing TF2 even if valve officially kills support.
I mean, look at CS 1.6, there's still nearly 10,000 concurrent players at peak hours. There are still people who play 1.6 every single day, and I doubt TF2 would ever totally, completely die out. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised to still full community servers in 2050.
So if you can accept that aspect, the game will truly never be totally dead. It won't be what it is today, just like today isn't like it was 10 years ago, but it'll still be here.
Not possible because unlike most modern games, community servers exist. If Casual and the item servers shut down, community servers would just rise up again with plug-ins to let you use all of the weapons.
the market for class based shooters is way bigger than it was in 2007 and valve owns arguably the most recognizable IP of the genre, so if they pull the plug on tf2 it's because they released a sequel, otherwise there isn't much of a reason, tf2 is pretty easy money and you could argue that it still has room for some growth
@@evdestroy5304You gotta realize just how much work, and how wildly expensive it is to hold up just one community server. If TF2's main servers go down, then that means millions of people will be forced to use community servers. The influx would be too big for the community to handle.
@darienb1127 You do realize that neither casual nor quickplay existed at one point, and community servers were all there was, right?
So true bestie (this video is very well thought out and accurately identifies the issues TF2 and its communities are having)
>Tf2 Video Essay
> Looks Inside
> Same points Zesty Jesus has been making for years
Well, at least im glad you recognize the problems with TF2
I'm convinced Valve has become a glorified hobby shop where, if you're lucky and make connections with the right people, you're inducted into a rich boys and girls club. You get your salary and retirement taken care of, and you're free to play around with whatever in the presence of other prestigious geeks and enthusiasts. Steam is a mostly autonomous money printing machine, creating a little oasis utopia in the modern world where members need not worry about financial struggles their neighbours do. Valve is more like the Stonecutters as an organisation than anything else; if you're allowed to join, it's like winning the hedonistic lottery for hardware and software engineers.
The gaming division of valve is merely a vestigial organ that no longer has much importance or relevance to the company. You interact with it as an employee mostly for stimulation. Looking to Valve for TF2 updates is like hoping for Amazon to go back to being a bookstore.
Well put
Valve outgrew their roots tbh. Why would you want to work on a game -that has been in development since 1999- or any game for that matter when you can work on neural interfacing and VR? If I had an IQ high enough to work at valve there’s not a chance in hell I’d work on TF.
@@kylemason2836 Might be too speculative to assume there's a lot of high IQ left at Valve.
@@GreyOatmeal you don’t get to be a monopoly and have lawsuits with the EU every month without employing the best in the world.
That Summer blog post really messed up with our minds thinking Valve would continue caring for this game and it's possible future.
The example you gave with the Soldier and Administrator at 7:32 is so funny and accurate to the entertainment industry as a whole lately. this whole "breaking the 4th wall = clever" is such a tired bit and I see it everywhere now. Characters don't need to take themselves seriously (and that wouldn't make sense in a game like TF2), but they should at least stay in character.
For those wondering, the unmentionable is in reference to another RUclipsr named Zesty Jesus
The sheer fact I can't talk in the chat or make callouts without paying I feel is what killed the game for me. Every time I try to go back and remember I can't have fun without paying, I quit
Tf2 is a game that didn’t become a battle royale, a pay to get a powerful character, have weird collaborations, and mostly doesn’t have "those people" (child predators)
Truly a Valve game moment
last statement is untrue sadly.. ("those people" statement)
edit: forgot you said mostly, i'll retract my statement.
14:00 - You can say it dude, we all know it's Zesty
I know this might seem out of place here, but a lot of what TheWhatShow has said in this vid can be brought across the entirety of the internet, it really seems that a lot of people nowadays really don't want to have a casual criticism type discussion, cause it really seems like if you disagree with people and give some pointers on something, they'll immediately shut down, be rude, and ignore you. It's honestly sad and upsetting to see this happening on lots of platforms, and I genuinely hate to say it, but I don't think that's ever going to change, this mentality of "I'm right so that means I'm good, and your wrong which means your bad" is very easy to adapt and use, and in which creates toxicity in a fandom or just the platform it's on.
Entitled people really are the bane of the generation, aren't they? People really need to learn how to take actual criticism without immediately turning into an angry caricature of Soldier.
It's much easier to have that attitude when your arguing with a faceless person. On the internet, we don't believe were arguing with people most of the time, were just attacking our idea of what they are.
Excellent points. My motivation to make videos severely fell when CS2 released, and I was thinking just the other day "they killed the game I loved". I also loved what you said about criticism at the end. Its very important stuff to remember.
My hours went from 200 to about 600 in a year. and now, just 2 months after that, I'm at 710.9 hours. I didn't like TF2 at first, but it's grown on me. To the point where I've been yearning for the end of the school day to play more TF2. I can't remember the last time I was waiting to get home to play a game.
Y'all always come around, eventually. You know it's okay say my name, right?
That was a joke btw no bad blood between us
I always thought saying the words "Zesty Jesus" in front of the mirror three times automatically gets you cancelled on Twitter and compromises all one's contacts. My life is a lie!!
I've never understood gamersupps because it's literally just energy drinks but like either simp-ified or meme-ified.
It’s really amazing to see support for this dying platform to stay for years to come.
Being on the game for about 8(ish) months or so, I really love the game. But this video spoke to me so much. I don’t understand why Valve thinks so little of us, where we are trying to keep the rotting beams in the cave held up until Valve will come and support those beams for us, but they really think keeping around servers is enough, and yearly community-made content for holidays is good enough. We haven’t had support for the game 100,000 people love in what is basically 6 years at this point, pushing rushed (again,) community made content to feed us into believing support from the devs will come soon. But, no. It seems day after day it’s only becoming more of a pipe dream rather than reality.
I think that a lot of this split comes from the fact that many new fans came into TF2 after the game stopped receiving regular updates and don’t know what things were like before. (Speaking from experience, I arrived post-Jungle Inferno myself.)
Criticism is needed to keep the community in a healthy condition. Trying to keep criticism away will only divide and hurt the community rather than improve and strengthen the community. Criticism is needed, even harsh criticism
There is someone whos working on a major bot detection and alert system
For me I don't see #saveTF2 as a complete waste of time because on British and European servers there are almost 0 bots on them. 11:40
"British and European"
Ah yes, because the UK isn't in Europe
(This is light hearted btw, I just found it funny)
im going to assume that there's actually two different server, one uk and one europe@@tecnosfalling7619
@@tecnosfalling7619didn't Brexit happen in the worst possible way it could?
@@yggdrasilburnes doesn't mean the UK isn't in Europe, just that it doesn't belong in the EU
@@yggdrasilburnes it's not like the British isles just trundled away from France and towards Greenland
We just left the union, not the continent
Didn't know you made Business Class. Good stuff.
That being said, the fact Hot Rod isn't a warpaint makes me cry.
Ya know I've always wondered if anyone else cared as much as Funke or Zesty did for the overall uniqueness of the game and The what yet again proved thier points. And he's not a coatrider or anything he's a guy like many who loves this game and he's doing somthing many people on the internet fear. . . The Simple truth and honesty that someone has for somthing.
So can this community be honest with itself? if everyone just keeps treating other people who wanna preserve the game like villians?
I agree 100 percent with you. It seems any actual criticism of anything related to tf2 anymore. I’ve been blocked called names and just ignored by the people who make content for the game. It seems like you can’t say anything anymore without being stereotyped by these people.
this was kind of like a wake up call. TF2 was one of those games I looked up to, and looked forward to getting. It's aesthetic was really cool. When I got it, it was great, and still is (this was around 2022, when the bot crisis somehow wasn't as bad). It's just the fact that Valve doesn't even bother making their own content anymore, although the community has made very good content. I personally believe that we either try the SaveTF2 thing again, or (maybe not the best idea), we do a peaceful protest near Valve HQ, where we dress up like TF2 characters, or other ignored game characters from other ignored games. Still, this may not be the _best_ idea, it may have Valve respond quicker. Just my opinion though.
Fun fact this is the first time in Team Fortress 2 history where I didn’t even do my Halloween contracts. My love for Team Fortress 2 has died out. If this was old TF2 it would never die out but, I can only take so many years of bots and lack of updates. Team Fortress 2 is no longer Team Fortress 2.
Wish more TF2tubers were more real with it's audience. Get off the meds and take off "the image" mask and be real for one second about this game and the state it's in.
Preserving this game would be something that should be our best interest as of now, because of how modern gaming is. Sadly those players who come from those modern FPS games; they will think something like prophunt or zombie infection is good for tf2.
Yes, those v-script gamemodes is effectively "content". But it's not content that fits the game. It's soulles, it's a shameless money grab.
Would it kill TF2? No. But would it hurt of what TF2 effectively IS? Definitely.
It would bring in more people that weren't interested in the game to begin with, that are just here for the wacky hats and gamemodes. And with that, more gamemodes would get in, more maps, effectively bloating the game to the point of where it dies under it's own weight, and those players will all leave when Fortnite 2 comes out.
Gatekeeping is healthy for some games, and that is basically what TF2 needs at this point in time, since Valve couldn't care less about it.
why was the olive analogy genuinely an amazing analogy and is a great explanation on tf2 now. (Great video all around)
Second comment:
TF2 for me has one thing that has never changed: Teamwork, and life lessons.
TF2 taught me that a team game is more than just the individual encounters unless it's 2Fort. It's about, you guessed it, teamwork. Being there when you're needed, being a credit to the team, and leading others onto their feet to becoming mad war dogs.
The gameplay is what I feel won't change. But the style... Why...
TF2 is a relic of a different time, a relic of a different Valve. There really isn't a game LIKE TF2 anymore, and that's what makes it so interesting
What I'll say about the cosmetics and warpaints is that yeah, a lot of them are silly and wacky, and a lot are only getting sillier and wackier. I agree that we need some feedback and quality control to keep bad cosmetics out of the game. But also, I think it's important to consider that one of the ways cosmetics add to the fun of the game is by giving the players the freedom to choose what they want to look like. It can give a sense of uniqueness or identity to the players that want that. So if some cosmetics added to the game or thrown around the workshop are just a little on the silly side, I don't see as much of a problem with that, cause even if a few people don't like it, someone else probably does. As long as it's not disrupting gameplay (like the red team pyro example you showed) I don't see a problem with people dressing however they like in-game.
old boomer yells at cloud, doesn’t know how to have fun anymore
Totally agree with you on how every game is trying to be more kawaii and vibrant. I tried some halo infinite multiplayer, and there were Spartans with cat ears on their helmets. Uninstalled the game shortly after. I wish studios would learn that not everything has to be Overwatch or Fortnight
My feelings have been validated. Thanks TheWhat Show!
I am glad to see someone non-controversial pushing for quality content in TF2 (poor Zesty)
the problem with vscript gamemodes is that everyone wants to be the next vsh but very little want to put in the effort to make a gamemode as good as vsh
I refuse to believe that COD actually has some cringy 3-frame cat png "battlebuddy" with catchphrases that make the story writing of Borderlands 3 look like a Shakespearean novella. You have to be pulling me leg with this one thewhatshow man.
I wish I was funny enough to come up with a joke ad cruel as that
Timestamp?
15:30 One of the worst comparisons I've ever heard, and an even weaker excuse for not wanting to include Prop Hunt. In reality, those who oppose adding new stuff like Prop Hunt are like people who hate pineapple on pizza. Even though it doesn't really bother them and they can just ignore it, they still hate that pineapple could be a pizza topping and think it ruins the whole pizza.
No, he's got a point
Prophunt/Hide and seek do not really belong in a first person SHOOTER. They may work in something like Among us, or in truly sandbox games, but not in a game that is a team-based shooter at its core. Sure, TF2 and source games in general are flexible, but they still set the boundaries of what is its core gameplay should be. Plus, people by and large just play around with new gamemodes and then return to upward/badlands/2fort or other official game modes. Which means that majority is interested in playing CORE TF2, not in a new wacky unique gamemode, or at least not to the same level as they are interested in vanilla TF2.
But by your point, why not officially add prop hunt to CS? Hell, why not officially add RP to casual TF2? Why not add battle cards minigame, or chess, but with guns? Or football with guns (oh, right, passtime. And its dead).
@@PretzelsWithSalt I don't care about what other games do, that's not really important here, the main point is TF2. It's pretty clear that players will go back to the main game after trying out the new mode. That's no surprise. These new game modes are just for the occasion and they're also only around once a year. So, if you don't want to play them, you don't have to. Why worry if it changes the core game of TF2? It only affects the game mode and everything goes back to normal after the event is gone. Look at how Saxton Hale and zombies added cool stuff to the game. Did they change the game forever? No, once they were gone, the game was the same as before. So, let's not be too stuck smoking on that nostalgia pack, I get change can be scary but it can also be good. Just keep an open mind.
@@lookitsash5765 Counterpoint: If I wanted to play hide and seek, why wouldn't I go play Garry's mod, or Roblox, or any other game that is either a sandbox or can be molded appropriately?
I play Casual TF2 to play TF2, a.k.a fight over territories as one of the opposite teams, not to play minigames that can only function somewhat decently. For Jailbreak or TF2ware I can always go on community servers. Why have them added into vanila TF2, even if on seasonal basis?
With Zombies, I was never interested and from what I heard, it was either mid or terrible (balance-wise), plus the fact that engineer exists kinda makes me not wanna play as zombies. And VSH, I'd say that it's still a PVP where you can at least *fight back* against opposition, instead of hoping that you picked a decent spot and that explosive classes with medics won't bother carpet bombing the room I'm in.
Speaking of, recent Prophunt is, in my opinion, worse than OG prophunt because of class variety. There (at least when implementing properly) you had been playing as pyros and scouts, and had to worry about your health decreasing when you fire aimlessly, so it discouraged from aimlessly firing the whole map, rendering hiding team's efforts pointless. Here, you have medics and demos, not to mention engineers who can *build sentries that can detect hiding props* (or at least could, idk if they fixed it or not). Now you don't have to worry about health management, and can merrily bomb the whole room with medic up your ass and call it good gameplay. So again, why would I play worse hide and seek, when I can play one that is better, but happens to be either a different game with hide and seek rules in mind, or a version of it for sandbox games, where it would still work better than in this game that had never been made with hide and seek in mind in the first place. It's like playing shooter while playing grand strategy
@@PretzelsWithSalt You're free to play whatever you want, but it's so stupid to oppose the addition of new ideas to a game simply because you dislike the idea. How can we determine what works and what doesn't without trying first? Notice how you didn't play the zombies mode, yet it had no impact on the core mechanics outside of that specific game mode or your regular TF2 gameplay?
If Prop Hunt was added and it turned out to be shit, then at least we would know. It wouldn't affect anything afterwards. If you're going to be gatekeeping a 16-year-old game just because of one RUclips video, you should come up with a better argument. Complaining about this is like being upset about pineapple as a pizza topping, when nobody is forcing you to put it on your pizza.
@@lookitsash5765 I mean, at the end of the day, Prophunt/hide and seek-esque minigame is really different from the FPS genre. Like, chili sauce on cake different. Can we agree on that? I'm not against new game modes, hell, just last week I've been playing nothing but VSH. But I still don't think that something like Hide and seek in FPS game is not a good idea.
Also, I remembered playing old prophunt few years ago, and mostly I remembered just sitting and scrolling my phone while waiting to be caught. IMHO, prophunt is just generally boring (as hiders)
Also, off-topic, but I love pineapple pizza. It's the only type of pizza I've been eating for past 5-6 months, if not longer.
Seeing this video realized a lot of important things I missed before hand, that I don't even know where to start thank you for this amazing video.
feedback is incredibly useful for the improvement of workshop items. however, i really think it's worth emphasizing that there is an art to criticism - people are *hilariously* bad at giving feedback that is useful to creators, even when creators are receptive to criticism.
there are plenty of times where all you get is "this is too detailed" or "make it look less shit." all this does is state your dissatisfaction with zero meaningful direction for the creator to try and work off of. creators can try to guess or intuit the critic's intent, but it's so much more helpful for critics to actually write what they specifically dislike about something, and it's even better if they can attempt to give you legitimate suggestions or ideas. you know, something like "this seems like its a bit noisy - can you try adjusting the contrast between the [x] and the [y]? or heavily simplify/remove the [z]?" or even "the colors look a bit weird, id suggest bringing the [a] closer to [b]."
that isn't even getting into feedback that, even if specific, is legitimately nonsensical. as a personal example, i once got feedback on a war paint that read, "i think there should be a bit more wear on it."
The unmentionable is zesty jesus btw. Zesty is a cool guy. people just aren´t ready to handle the truth tbh.
18:45 - "TF2 is one of the last great First Person Shooters untainted by modern day bullshit."
I disagree. TF2 was among the first games to adopt lootbox-style monetization, which doesn't get enough flak. It also indulged in many promotional IP crossovers (Max's Severed Head, The Machina, Shred Alert, etc.) which you criticize other games for, yet do not hold TF2 to the same standard. And at the risk of invoking "Death of an Art Style", it did in fact dilute its coherent art direction with increasingly outlandish cosmetics and particle effects to get people to spend money. Comparing the live-service model of TF2 to those of OW and COD, the only fundamental difference is that the latter two are still actively supported by the developers, while the former isn't.
Thank you not enough people talk about this
Its so funny that all Valve needed to do was fix the bot crisis and 100% of the playerbase would've been happy with a stagnant 2017 TF2 for the rest of time.
Now all we have is rushed gamemodes and bad cosmetics, as well as the bot crisis at the same time. Truly immaculate.
Funny you talk about modern games being colorful senory overloads when TF2 was that to the shooters of 2007 when it released. I remember old CoD heads calling TF2 a baby's shooter just because of the bright cartoony artstyle. And now that everyone's doing it TF2 is the 'more mature' game.
I always find it interesting when people say a game has a 'soul', like its some static thing that never changes. That the devs that made TF2 back in 2007 aren't people and can't change their opinion on what makes TF2 what it is over 16 years of development. I majorly changed my opinions over a lot of stuff in just 5 years so I can imagine the rollercoaster the devs have had to go through, what with the behind-the-scenes dumpsterfire of updates like EoTL and Invasion as well as the up front dumpsterfire that was MYM. Most updates now are pretty much just community showcases; showing off workshop maps and items while Valve makes some money off of them. Zombie Invasion was rushed because official VSH was completely unprecedented and everyone scrambled to make their own once they figured out Valve was going to add community gamemodes. Simple as.
I might be an asshole for saying this but I'm glad CS2 released in a dogshit state. The majority of CS 'players' were pseudo-crypto/NFT bros riding off the CS2 hype to drive skin sales to ridiculous heights. Now that CS2 released and sucks these players are leaving en-masse and skin prices are actually reasonable now for the average player. So whenever they do finish the game, the player economy will likely be in a much better state.
This is going to come off really harsh, but I think you should quit TF2. Not permanently, but it's kind of clear to me playing TF2 has become an obligation rather than entertainment to you. Dabble in a few indie games maybe; not once in your rant about modern shooters did I see you talk about Battlebit Remastered, which is very much that old CoD feeling if you're okay with the Roblox graphics which was intentionally choosen so low end PCs can run it. It's not a massive game by any means; it's player numbers are lower than OW2's despite being hearlded as the savior of the FPS genre, but it scratches that old style game itch. Tells you how much gamers are actually interested in saving gaming when they won't support games that do it right LMAO.
tomorrow you gonna open tf2 and see that the scout become lebron james, the medic is makiplier and the soldier is peter griffin
TF2 is reaching the point where it's only really enjoyable in bursts and breaks. And even that's wearing off. A game of it's caliber can only last so long without meaningful content before getting stale.
They should literally do what Fortnite does and reset the "world" back to 2008. and give us monthly updates up to the 2016. version and then loop to infinity.
Would buy that for a dollar!
Valve isn’t a videogame company anymore, it’s a hardware and software company.
crazy to see how many people refuse to accept tf2 is not a flawless game
laughin at spy saying pornography isint limited to being a kid, thats a joy for all ages
Honesty, my best advice for situations like this is just to leave the game behind for a little while. Does it suck initially? Absolutely, missing out on the new content of the game you love is not fun. But if that new content is sub-par at best, and bring in more issues than anything else. Then is it really bad that you're missing out on that content. Best to take a break from the game. That break might be a long time, but it's better than to be negative about said game, or just dwell on the past. I'll probably make video about that soon, who knows.
The point I'm trying to make is that if the game you play is slowly starting to make you not like the experience of it, well...just go away from it for now. Yeah you can talk about your frustrations with the game, but the community has shown that they rather not listen to feedback more than anything. So best to leave the game alone for better pastures. Hell, now would be a great time to make variety content if I'm being honest. That's just me though.
I also got a pay pal scam as a kid. Except, instead of giving him a strange candy cane for $5, it was a burning heavy duty rag for $300.
TF2 has done plently of IP crossovers in the past, I find it odd to criticize other games for adopting similar concepts.
I think it's a fair point to mention and not one I really address in the video, but (for the most part) tf2's crossovers actually fit within the game's style. Crossover's like the deus ex weapons, the shogun/sleeping dogs packs, poker night items. All of these fit the game's aesthetic very well. Take a look at a game like Fortnite. All of the style it has has slowly evaporated as so many crossovers of so many different styles have been added the game is a total clustertruck of IPs.
With some exceptions, I think TF2 is the best game to do IP crossovers.
@@TheWhatShow Although you have crossover items which are usually made with quality or care, just do not fit the game that well. Take an IP like Arkham Batman which was added in 2015, and the cosmetics they chose. It is well made, but does it fit? Take a look at the Wilson Weave or the Bioshock items. They're really zany for TF2 standards with the Sydney Strawboat being an expection. My problem is that a lot of these hats may be well made, just does not fit the games aesthetic or direction.
I'd also like to argue with Fortnite and COD is that their charm for these crossovers is that it is so zany and funny in the first place is why it is charming. Like, they are not worried about the game's style it is not their intent. They just want to add something over the top or zany and have fun with it. I mean COD already has other worldly or zombie stuff and magic bows that shoot electricity. Would it really be that ridiculous if you could play as Homelander or Snoop Dogg?
Similar effect with Fortnite, you already have crazy zany elements like boogie bombs, buff cats, giant banana people, giant chrome kingdoms, is it really that aeshtetically different if they collabs with Peter Griffin or Goku? I think it fits the game's attitude.
You raise a good point about the monetization of these games, and how expensive and predatory it can be.
Critique is what makes us better. If we didn’t have it, we would all be reading, watching, and making slop.