Thanks Richard!! Another great video!! How about some "Torque Monster" videos? I'm guessing that a lot of your viewers are like me and want the best bottom end performance we can get for hauling loads, RV,s, Campers, Boats, etc. I travel all over the mountain states and really don"t have any use for an engine that delivers the best performance at 6K plus RPM. Keep up the good work!!!
@@austindoud273 - I disagree. Especially when I already own something with a 6.0l in it. I'm not going through the expense and trouble to diesel swap it, nor am i going to buy one of these newer diesels with their ridiculous emissions gear. I know that my engine can make 1,000 pounds of torque based on things Richard's already done, but like OP here i would love some info on the builds that aren't focused on higher rpm power. What can we expect from setups like a 6.0l with a TBSS intake and a stage 2 truck cam? Then with boost? What do the curves look like? How well do the various turbos spool? Can you get full boost before 2500 rpms with a setup like that? Will the engine be ok if you did? These are all interesting question to probably a lot of us...
@@melissahill7930 send me the 4l60 and I'll build it to handle 5-600 all day. Most people jump for the 80 and while I don't dispute the fact that they can be capable of more power, they eat bushings, they eat cases, gear ratios aren't as good, and they suck a lot more power.
I remember when I had to wait until next month's issue of MM&FF to get to read Richard Holdener's articles. Now he is putting out some of the best car content on RUclips weekly. Congrats on 30,000 subscribers!
Great video. I’m one of those that didn’t realise runner length was as critical under boost. Would love to see a video sometime on compression ratio and turbos
I was just thinking the same thing. I always thought lower compression was better for boost motors. After watching these vids, im not sure anymore..lol
OE have practically no runners and they use boost to shape the torque curve. That's how they get those super flat torque curves from 2500-5000 rpm. It just needs more boost. You can also limit peak torque so you don't blow up your engine (e.g. big bang 6.0L)
Another great topic. It is very interesting watching you dispel myths and prove theories with empirical data. Steve calls the dyno the polygraph, you can’t argue unambiguous repeatable data. So selecting a cam profile for FI, just concern yourself with LSA ? Awesome channel!!!
KooL STuFF Richard things are getting clearer now also the heads head work and or aftermarket ,depends on how high lift and duration ,the heads will work ,will dictate what size cam will actually work to make power ,,,to get that magic number ...so thank you loll i guess ya can't tell us everything but ya tell us alot without saying it ,,,so awesome love your channel i have learned so much ,,,dont ever stop teaching and showing us everything way pasT KooL
Question!!! Awesome videos, would you care to do a video on how to properly choose the proper waste-gate / blow-off value? Thanks for doing all the tests!!!! Great info.
Makes a person wonder if many people would actually be faster if they didn't have that fancy / expensive intake on their "mostly stock" turboed junk yard motor, and just had the stocker in it's place. Great video as always!
Absolutely correct, I thought with intakes single plane vs dule is volume increases velocity decreases and vice versa, which is why single plane intakes like lower gear and looser converters and make power up high, they look cool sound cool and we all want them
Awesome video - I have made this mistake on a turbo 5.3 and I am in search of an lsxrt intake now - because of the great info you put in your videos! My combination was a l33 ,ls6 cam, head bolts and gaskets with a 67mm bb turbo from ON3 - but I put a holley sniper intake on it .. it made decent power but i am probably giving up 50-100ftlb of torque under the curve ! I only run it to 6500 ish. Thank you for the info - she will get the fast intake and a new tune before summer !
With that combo on a 5.3 you could save a bunch of money and go TBSS intake. With that turbo size on the small side for a 5.3 I'm thinking you daily it? If it's a truck do you tow?
The short runner might be better for high boost so you don't get as much torque that kills the engine, you can fix the lack of torque with boost, and still get a couple of extra peek hp, I mean if you not running a boost controller with rpm reference
@@kylesonsalla7620 I'm not going to lie when I built my set up I did want the Holley real bad because it looks so damn good but I did research and found that the Holley was only good at high RPM so I went with a FAST..... but I didn't realize that the Holley was that bad! I'm glad I went with the best performance and not for the bling. Furthermore the MSD intake had just came out and I did hear that it perfomed ok but I couldn't get past its horrendous looks lol
hondatech5000 yea I was thinking the same thing. I’m running a 4l60 in my gto. Built as strong as it can be, but I’m sure I’ll break it sooner or later. Might not be a bad idea to change manifolds to a sheet metal to kill so low end. Right now I break the tires loose at 1/2 throttle at low rpm and speeds in 2nd gear. It’s got way too much tq.
Funky physics question. If the earth were larger and able to support a denser atmosphere, say 29.4 psi instead of 14.7. Would an engine produce more power, or the same? A denser atmosphere would contain a greater quantity of oxygen, but the pump itself still sees 0 psi between intake and exhaust. Turbocharging would need to operate at 30 psi to double power output.
Richard. I watch every single video asap. I love this kind of stuff (read as Much Vizard as possible) and I’ve been a diehard Chevy guy my whole life @49 yrs. however I came across a great trade for a 2011 5.7 hemi. As much as I love all this I cannot find any crazy engine nuts dynoing hemis like you do LS. So if you trip over one in the junkyard maybe you play with that. I know I asked once before (and I believe you had a hemi video out within 24hrs) but it would be awesome.
Have you already done a test on the difference between long tube headers and cast iron manifolds on a turbo application? Doesn't hooker make a cast turbo manifold set for LS engines? That's probably pretty convenient method of setting up a turbo system.
@@242brick Nice! The TBSS conversations can be pricey for stock stuff if it's a retro fit but they do offer good performance. Cam and boost and you're good to go! Lol
Excellent content!!! I would like to see the results from building a turbo engine for high rpm power vs low or mid range power like this one. Heads cam intake all for high end power. Will the high ram intake then make good numbers? Also will the engine built for high rpm power last longer and make more power before breaking....I tend to think so, because there will be less torque down low and I've heard of this technique being used in drag applications b4 to prevent part failures, last longer, and create best peak hp/tq numbers.
Every intake is a boost intake just like every cam is a boost cam, I guess. One of the big differences between stock and aftermarket cams is often overlap, which is usually credited with increased mid-range power due to the “fifth cycle”. It doesn’t seem like this would carry through with turbochargers due to the interference of back pressure. Can you comment or maybe demo the effect of overlap with and without back pressure powered boost?
Wish he compared (or would compare) the fast 102 lsxr (not the “t”) and the Holley to see which works better. I admit, this is selfish on my part, but I have the fast laxr and am curious about the intake I have
Stupid question. What does header glow mean on the boosted versions? It seems like the Holley run caused the headers to glow sooner and more. Thanks for the videos.....
Very interesting test. This makes me wonder more about intakes and boost. Everyone says to just run the stock truck intake or TBSS intake for boosted applications, but you have shown a few things here. In your 20 intake comparison, the stock truck made 549hp, LSXRT 592hp, Hi Ram 597hp peaks. Here you are showing the LSXRT and Hi Ram under boost. Let's think of this in a drag racing application so anything under 5500 rpm is irrelevant, rev to 7500+ rpm. At 6000 rpm NA the LSXRT is roughly 20hp higher than the Hi Ram, then the Hi Ram gains on the LSXRT and passes it. Then we go to 7lbs of boost and the LSXRT is roughly 50hp higher at 6000 rpm than the Hi Ram, then the Hi Ram closes the gap again. This tells me the gains NA are multiplying under boost. The question I would ask is if the Hi Ram looks like the best option for a 7000+ rpm engine (the rpm range for our drag racing application) and we want to run say 30lbs of boost, why are we recommending the truck intakes for boost? If we look simply at the math, the Hi Ram is 50hp better NA than the truck intake. If that hp is going to multiply under boost, we could argue the Hi Ram could be worth 100hp or more over the truck intake. That's a big deal! Obviously setup will dictate exact results, but I feel this is often overlooked. Does this make sense or do I have something backwards?
Better-flowing components also flow better when boosted, and boost amplifies those improvements. Think of an engine as an equivalent flow restriction orifice - the larger the orifice, the more airflow at a given feed pressure. So the less-restrictive intake made more power even at a lower boost level, because it was flowing more air.
i think where people get tripped up is badly mismatching components. like a high duration cam with a tiny turbo or conversely stock cams that are rolling off just as the huge turbo is coming up...
Richard I was wondering if you have ever tested draw through turbo system vs a blow through, I would like to see what is best for street use and what the power would be on a LS engine, Thanks for the Video's .
Anyone want to buy my Holley high ram?.... just kidding!... it works better that the fast did especially with a 6500 converter for the strip And Richard, your test confirmed that so thanks! 👍
So would it be fair to extrapolate that roots blower intakes are generally rubbish, but a necessary evil for packaging? Would love to see a test proving this!
They R designed for high rpm as well and would be better if longer for power at lower engine speeds. Proponents of the PD blowers (roots and Twin Screw) always counter with the immediate boost response, but the intake doesn't care about that-extra torque is extra torque
@@richardholdener1727 the instant torque of a PD blower is great, for sure.. but knowing your supercharged engine could have significantly better output with an optimized runner length really niggles at the back of your mind if you're the sort of person who likes to fabricate blower manifolds! It can be a tough slog being a blower guy in a turbo world lol.
Have you done any videos on the difference between a log style turbo manifold, the tubular unequal length manifolds like in this video and tubular equal length manifolds? That would be an interesting one to see.
Any (fill in the blank) is a Turbo (fill in the blank). 👌🏻🤘🏻 In all seriousness, the old knowledge of short runner = high rpm HP, Long runner = low end torque will always hold true. Is hard to mask/bend physics, even with forced induction alternatives.
Just thinking out loud here... I wish you would’ve confirmed the port alignment on the highram.. I’ve seen so many of those intakes have issues with port alignment, so much as about an 1/8” off of the actual intake Port Centerline. Just something to think about
OK I am missing something. I understand the long/short runner and charge filling for NA. What I am not grasping is under boost, why there is such a loss for the high ram. If the advantage of the short runner is the 'ram' effect on cyl filling...if there is say 10 pounds of boost in either manifold, are you STILL gaining the increased cyl filling with the long ram? I'm just trying to understand the difference as in my non turbo pro head, it would seem that 10 or whatever pounds is 10 or whatever pounds and that is 'cross canceling' for lack of a better term, the long runner/low RPM benefit.
EXACTLY....glad you proved it again that sheet metal and most hi ram intakes on an LS are completely useless as the things HEMORRAGE power down low through the mids, and really anywhere below 7500rpm when turboed they wont catch up. for 7500 to 9500 is the hi rams only place
Richard Holdener Do you have a link? I can’t seem to find it. I’m considering it for a ly6 with comp 469 cam. I’ve heard it looses less power down low compared to Holley High Ram.
Fast is the way to go on a stock bottom end because you don't want to rev that high on stock bottom end with 15+ pounds of boost unless you just want to throw a rod.
Was your Buddies Suburban a 2500? I thought the only Suburbans to get the LQ4 6.0L were 2500's but a commenter in a Hoonigan video said that you could get them from 99-01 on the half ton Burb's as well. Thanks.
Ok cool what about a dropping in a cam vs the same cam being degreed will it make more power by degreeing the cam? Most people just drop a cam in and don’t degree them. Are they losing power buy not degreeing them?
I love your video and totally agree ie long vs short runner, but why do the new modern four cylinder turbo engine have almost no intake runners. They should make all their power uptop however they are making power and torque very low down. Can you explain?
The newer import 4 cylinders use variable valve timing to retard the cam down low which increases low rpm torque as well as help spool the turbo. Then they advance the valve timing at higher rpms to increase hp and reduce valve overlap
So given the common types of carbureted intakes for a traditional gen 1 SBC, and the “common knowledge” that a dual plane intake is bad for nitrous and/or boost because of cylinder distribution, would a long runner dual plane, such as a Performer RPM actually be a better choice than a short runner Victor Jr for a typical boosted motor running 6500 RPM and below, or is the cylinder distribution such a worry that any potential losses from a short runner are worth not leaning out one cylinder?
@@richardholdener1727 you should build an intake like the variable length headers and see how long you can go before it hurts performance. Just an idea.
@@mikehoncho5389 You are correct. But people selling expensive parts, try to confuse the public. My shop is G.M., small block, Big block, LT-1, LS. Is what I grew -up with.
I’m pretty sure Richard Holdener’s punching bag is full of 706 heads...in fact, I would suspect his entire home gym is comprised of heads, cranks and a block or two. 😂
Jeez, I don't consider myself a dumb guy by any reason but I just cannot wrap my head around this under boost. If there's 10 lbs of boost at the intake valve (basically downstream of intake) and it isn't going to change, how's the motor know the difference between the two? When the intake valve opens, there's your 10# of boosted air! And two people with long runner street turbo cars disliked this video lol.
That's not the only thing going on in the intake-there are other pressure waves going down the runner to the open intake valve, then back, then down again, then back etc... These (reflected) pressure waves, if timed right, help improve cylinder filling. That's why we see the difference in power of the two intakes, these waves are tuned for power gains at rpm (Cuz the waves travel at the speed of sound and it takes a certain amount of time to make the trip up and back). Thus runner length determines when they arrive.
It's funny how you get away with saying ft*lbs but writing lb*ft. I used to get harassed about that all the time til I kicked some people out of my house.
@@bimmerman9839 But are they $100. Or less. My local pick -a- part. I pick up M-62, M-90, M-112, M-122 EATONS. JUST CHANGE THE OIL 🛢. LOOKING FOR A M-112, my 4.6 liter mustang project. S.O.H.C. 4.6 LITER 500 H.P. BUT WILL NOT PAY OVER $100. YOU HAVE A EXCELLENT M-112????
No turbo cams
No turbo intakes
Just slap whatever you can afford together and give no fk$ 🔥
This isn't new news, but I love when people prove it.
It's news to lots of people who don't know
@@richardholdener1727 agreed!
Its news to me because im researching it now richard. Lower end is together figureing out the top.
Congrats on 30K subs. This channel deserves way more subs then a lot of the channels out there.
INDEED, he does deliver the goods, CONSISTENTLY.
Congratulations on 30 k subscribers Richard. We appreciate all the work you put in. Thanks.
thnx
Great example of just how influential intake runner length is to a combo.
Awesome vid Richard!
Thanks Richard!! Another great video!! How about some "Torque Monster" videos? I'm guessing that a lot of your viewers are like me and want the best bottom end performance we can get for hauling loads, RV,s, Campers, Boats, etc. I travel all over the mountain states and really don"t have any use for an engine that delivers the best performance at 6K plus RPM. Keep up the good work!!!
Diesel
@@austindoud273 yup, you said it.
6.0 liter, 862 heads, TBSS intake, summit stage 2 truck cam and 8lbs. Cheap and easy north of 600hp and all the good stuff low and mid range
@@austindoud273 - I disagree. Especially when I already own something with a 6.0l in it. I'm not going through the expense and trouble to diesel swap it, nor am i going to buy one of these newer diesels with their ridiculous emissions gear. I know that my engine can make 1,000 pounds of torque based on things Richard's already done, but like OP here i would love some info on the builds that aren't focused on higher rpm power.
What can we expect from setups like a 6.0l with a TBSS intake and a stage 2 truck cam? Then with boost? What do the curves look like? How well do the various turbos spool? Can you get full boost before 2500 rpms with a setup like that? Will the engine be ok if you did? These are all interesting question to probably a lot of us...
@@melissahill7930 send me the 4l60 and I'll build it to handle 5-600 all day. Most people jump for the 80 and while I don't dispute the fact that they can be capable of more power, they eat bushings, they eat cases, gear ratios aren't as good, and they suck a lot more power.
I remember when I had to wait until next month's issue of MM&FF to get to read Richard Holdener's articles. Now he is putting out some of the best car content on RUclips weekly.
Congrats on 30,000 subscribers!
Love your videos. I love doing back to back chassis dyno testing. This is awesome. Thanks so much for the time and posting the non bias results!!!!
like i said to you the other day this is why my truck feels a weeee flat down low, but this is what i knew
Great video. I’m one of those that didn’t realise runner length was as critical under boost.
Would love to see a video sometime on compression ratio and turbos
I was just thinking the same thing. I always thought lower compression was better for boost motors. After watching these vids, im not sure anymore..lol
The ideal combination that racers us is high compression and high boost, but this only works with high octane fuel
OE have practically no runners and they use boost to shape the torque curve. That's how they get those super flat torque curves from 2500-5000 rpm. It just needs more boost. You can also limit peak torque so you don't blow up your engine (e.g. big bang 6.0L)
OE manifolds have very long runners
Another great topic. It is very interesting watching you dispel myths and prove theories with empirical data. Steve calls the dyno the polygraph, you can’t argue unambiguous repeatable data. So selecting a cam profile for FI, just concern yourself with LSA ?
Awesome channel!!!
Cam selection is also somewhat a function of rpm-even for boost
KooL STuFF Richard things are getting clearer now also the heads head work and or aftermarket ,depends on how high lift and duration ,the heads will work ,will dictate what size cam will actually work to make power ,,,to get that magic number ...so thank you loll i guess ya can't tell us everything but ya tell us alot without saying it ,,,so awesome love your channel i have learned so much ,,,dont ever stop teaching and showing us everything way pasT KooL
Although I’ve long known the basic difference... never knew the difference was sooo large
Question!!! Awesome videos, would you care to do a video on how to properly choose the proper waste-gate / blow-off value? Thanks for doing all the tests!!!! Great info.
Now that would be an interesting video...
Makes a person wonder if many people would actually be faster if they didn't have that fancy / expensive intake on their "mostly stock" turboed junk yard motor, and just had the stocker in it's place. Great video as always!
Absolutely correct, I thought with intakes single plane vs dule is volume increases velocity decreases and vice versa, which is why single plane intakes like lower gear and looser converters and make power up high, they look cool sound cool and we all want them
Thanks for sharing. You’ve cleared a few thing up for me over time.
Awesome video - I have made this mistake on a turbo 5.3 and I am in search of an lsxrt intake now - because of the great info you put in your videos! My combination was a l33 ,ls6 cam, head bolts and gaskets with a 67mm bb turbo from ON3 - but I put a holley sniper intake on it .. it made decent power but i am probably giving up 50-100ftlb of torque under the curve ! I only run it to 6500 ish. Thank you for the info - she will get the fast intake and a new tune before summer !
With that combo on a 5.3 you could save a bunch of money and go TBSS intake. With that turbo size on the small side for a 5.3 I'm thinking you daily it? If it's a truck do you tow?
Or a TBSS or Dorman LS2-they are both cheaper
EGGINFOOLS I use it with a glide and autocross it mainly - it’s in a 88 foxbody notch - no lag no shift - it works really well right now
Richard Holdener yeah hard to find the tbss in Canada but I have heard the dorman quality can be questionable?
@@stacekirstein9646 That sounds fun and makes since for that turbo size!
The short runner might be better for high boost so you don't get as much torque that kills the engine, you can fix the lack of torque with boost, and still get a couple of extra peek hp, I mean if you not running a boost controller with rpm reference
Anyone notice the fuel leak on the holley N/A dyno run?
i did. thats all i was watching in that clip lol
I saw that but I was like these guys wouldn’t do that. But it wasn’t just me.
No but I did notice the engine snuff on let off!. Lol 😆
When are we getting the ss2 vs. The word?!!!!
Don't do it.... you'll drive the price up ;)
Sam Leisch who’s word?
OH NO!! Richard did it.....better stock up on SS2 cams and toilet paper now!!
Wow! Makes you wonder why the Holley style is more popular. FAST for the street!
Looks mostly, and people think they race more than they do, in a street car
@@kylesonsalla7620 I'm not going to lie when I built my set up I did want the Holley real bad because it looks so damn good but I did research and found that the Holley was only good at high RPM so I went with a FAST..... but I didn't realize that the Holley was that bad! I'm glad I went with the best performance and not for the bling. Furthermore the MSD intake had just came out and I did hear that it perfomed ok but I couldn't get past its horrendous looks lol
The short runner is better for the transmission : )
hondatech5000 yea I was thinking the same thing. I’m running a 4l60 in my gto. Built as strong as it can be, but I’m sure I’ll break it sooner or later. Might not be a bad idea to change manifolds to a sheet metal to kill so low end. Right now I break the tires loose at 1/2 throttle at low rpm and speeds in 2nd gear. It’s got way too much tq.
@@Turbogto_guy good sunshell, billet input shaft with sonnex smart input drum, and you should be good for a while.
Joe Blow I built it it.
Sonnax billet input and out put shafts
4l79 input drum with th350 3-4 clutches
Sonnax hardened sun shell
And a lot more lol
Thank you Richard I am really learning a lot.
Funky physics question. If the earth were larger and able to support a denser atmosphere, say 29.4 psi instead of 14.7. Would an engine produce more power, or the same? A denser atmosphere would contain a greater quantity of oxygen, but the pump itself still sees 0 psi between intake and exhaust. Turbocharging would need to operate at 30 psi to double power output.
it would make more NA power (just like it makes less at altitude) and boost would be above the atmospheric pressure (whatever that is)
Great video thank you!!
Can you do some old school
Mustang 5.0 videos or at least talk about them !!
Good lord that motor sounds amazing!
Fantastic video Richard👍
Richard. I watch every single video asap. I love this kind of stuff (read as Much Vizard as possible) and I’ve been a diehard Chevy guy my whole life @49 yrs. however I came across a great trade for a 2011 5.7 hemi. As much as I love all this I cannot find any crazy engine nuts dynoing hemis like you do LS. So if you trip over one in the junkyard maybe you play with that. I know I asked once before (and I believe you had a hemi video out within 24hrs) but it would be awesome.
Love your tech info.
Have you already done a test on the difference between long tube headers and cast iron manifolds on a turbo application? Doesn't hooker make a cast turbo manifold set for LS engines? That's probably pretty convenient method of setting up a turbo system.
I have tested the Hooker manifolds-they work well
In terms everyone can understand - hold your hand over the bathplug, thats whats happening inside the inlet runners and exhaust manifold :)
Where would the TBSS intake fall in this comparison? Awesome videos Richard, really enjoying the content.
I think he has a video on that. Basically save your money and go TBSS if you can. Plus if it's a 4.8 just stick with the stock intake
less than Fast but similar rpm range
@@EGGINFOOLS I did go TBSS, but its just a NA 5.3. I was able to get 305tq/304hp to the wheels for my C1500. I'm happy with the performance.
@@242brick Nice! The TBSS conversations can be pricey for stock stuff if it's a retro fit but they do offer good performance. Cam and boost and you're good to go! Lol
Excellent content!!! I would like to see the results from building a turbo engine for high rpm power vs low or mid range power like this one. Heads cam intake all for high end power. Will the high ram intake then make good numbers? Also will the engine built for high rpm power last longer and make more power before breaking....I tend to think so, because there will be less torque down low and I've heard of this technique being used in drag applications b4 to prevent part failures, last longer, and create best peak hp/tq numbers.
Every intake is a boost intake just like every cam is a boost cam, I guess. One of the big differences between stock and aftermarket cams is often overlap, which is usually credited with increased mid-range power due to the “fifth cycle”. It doesn’t seem like this would carry through with turbochargers due to the interference of back pressure. Can you comment or maybe demo the effect of overlap with and without back pressure powered boost?
whatever the cam does na-it does that under boost (99% of the time)
Wish he compared (or would compare) the fast 102 lsxr (not the “t”) and the Holley to see which works better. I admit, this is selfish on my part, but I have the fast laxr and am curious about the intake I have
Stupid question. What does header glow mean on the boosted versions? It seems like the Holley run caused the headers to glow sooner and more. Thanks for the videos.....
that's timing
Little bit of a fuel leak at the rail. Please be careful.
Very interesting test. This makes me wonder more about intakes and boost. Everyone says to just run the stock truck intake or TBSS intake for boosted applications, but you have shown a few things here. In your 20 intake comparison, the stock truck made 549hp, LSXRT 592hp, Hi Ram 597hp peaks. Here you are showing the LSXRT and Hi Ram under boost.
Let's think of this in a drag racing application so anything under 5500 rpm is irrelevant, rev to 7500+ rpm.
At 6000 rpm NA the LSXRT is roughly 20hp higher than the Hi Ram, then the Hi Ram gains on the LSXRT and passes it. Then we go to 7lbs of boost and the LSXRT is roughly 50hp higher at 6000 rpm than the Hi Ram, then the Hi Ram closes the gap again. This tells me the gains NA are multiplying under boost.
The question I would ask is if the Hi Ram looks like the best option for a 7000+ rpm engine (the rpm range for our drag racing application) and we want to run say 30lbs of boost, why are we recommending the truck intakes for boost? If we look simply at the math, the Hi Ram is 50hp better NA than the truck intake. If that hp is going to multiply under boost, we could argue the Hi Ram could be worth 100hp or more over the truck intake. That's a big deal!
Obviously setup will dictate exact results, but I feel this is often overlooked. Does this make sense or do I have something backwards?
Better-flowing components also flow better when boosted, and boost amplifies those improvements. Think of an engine as an equivalent flow restriction orifice - the larger the orifice, the more airflow at a given feed pressure. So the less-restrictive intake made more power even at a lower boost level, because it was flowing more air.
i think where people get tripped up is badly mismatching components. like a high duration cam with a tiny turbo or conversely stock cams that are rolling off just as the huge turbo is coming up...
Richard I was wondering if you have ever tested draw through turbo system vs a blow through, I would like to see what is best for street use and what the power would be on a LS engine, Thanks for the Video's .
I have not-most turbos are not set up to run fuel through
Anyone want to buy my Holley high ram?.... just kidding!... it works better that the fast did especially with a 6500 converter for the strip
And Richard, your test confirmed that so thanks! 👍
Forgive my dumb question, Richard. Would a single S475 @20psi be the same as twin S475's @10psi? They'd make close to the same power, or not?
So would it be fair to extrapolate that roots blower intakes are generally rubbish, but a necessary evil for packaging?
Would love to see a test proving this!
They R designed for high rpm as well and would be better if longer for power at lower engine speeds. Proponents of the PD blowers (roots and Twin Screw) always counter with the immediate boost response, but the intake doesn't care about that-extra torque is extra torque
@@richardholdener1727 the instant torque of a PD blower is great, for sure.. but knowing your supercharged engine could have significantly better output with an optimized runner length really niggles at the back of your mind if you're the sort of person who likes to fabricate blower manifolds!
It can be a tough slog being a blower guy in a turbo world lol.
Have you done any videos on the difference between a log style turbo manifold, the tubular unequal length manifolds like in this video and tubular equal length manifolds? That would be an interesting one to see.
Any (fill in the blank) is a Turbo (fill in the blank). 👌🏻🤘🏻
In all seriousness, the old knowledge of short runner = high rpm HP, Long runner = low end torque will always hold true. Is hard to mask/bend physics, even with forced induction alternatives.
Just thinking out loud here... I wish you would’ve confirmed the port alignment on the highram.. I’ve seen so many of those intakes have issues with port alignment, so much as about an 1/8” off of the actual intake Port Centerline. Just something to think about
Great information thanks 👌
I see long runner Intake and short runner intake. Real facts 0:31
OK I am missing something. I understand the long/short runner and charge filling for NA. What I am not grasping is under boost, why there is such a loss for the high ram.
If the advantage of the short runner is the 'ram' effect on cyl filling...if there is say 10 pounds of boost in either manifold, are you STILL gaining the increased cyl filling with the long ram? I'm just trying to understand the difference as in my non turbo pro head, it would seem that 10 or whatever pounds is 10 or whatever pounds and that is 'cross canceling' for lack of a better term, the long runner/low RPM benefit.
BOOM 💥. Give me the small runner dual plane ANY day for my 600ish hp rollin' burnout Ice cream 🍨 getter!!!!
I'd still like to see the hi ram and ms4 cam ran on boost together. I love the combination NA!
Richard has proven that the curve is gonna look the same, just with more hp on boost
Yes but it's happy higher in the rpm range. I want to see a 7500+ rpm boost pull
EXACTLY....glad you proved it again that sheet metal and most hi ram intakes on an LS are completely useless as the things HEMORRAGE power down low through the mids, and really anywhere below 7500rpm when turboed they wont catch up. for 7500 to 9500 is the hi rams only place
Compact exhaust manifold vs tubular long tube manifold please :D
I’ve been wanting to see a test of the Fast LSX HR ...
I tested the Carbon TR version already
Richard Holdener Do you have a link? I can’t seem to find it. I’m considering it for a ly6 with comp 469 cam. I’ve heard it looses less power down low compared to Holley High Ram.
Channel is growing fast!!!
Great Video!
Fast is the way to go on a stock bottom end because you don't want to rev that high on stock bottom end with 15+ pounds of boost unless you just want to throw a rod.
I need to know! What ring gaps do you typically run!!!
Can you do a video on the Brian tooley racing equalizer 1 intake manifold?
How does the Fast LSXRT compare to the eddelbrock cross ram?
Was your Buddies Suburban a 2500? I thought the only Suburbans to get the LQ4 6.0L were 2500's but a commenter in a Hoonigan video said that you could get them from 99-01 on the half ton Burb's as well. Thanks.
It may have been a 2500
Can please fix the fuel leak at the rail? It's the only thing I notice.
I want to see a comparison with the edlebrock cross ram with the twin turbo setup
And the stock truck manifold
I tested the Edelbrock intake-that video is up-its the same under boost
Ok cool what about a dropping in a cam vs the same cam being degreed will it make more power by degreeing the cam? Most people just drop a cam in and don’t degree them. Are they losing power buy not degreeing them?
I love your video and totally agree ie long vs short runner, but why do the new modern four cylinder turbo engine have almost no intake runners. They should make all their power uptop however they are making power and torque very low down. Can you explain?
The newer import 4 cylinders use variable valve timing to retard the cam down low which increases low rpm torque as well as help spool the turbo. Then they advance the valve timing at higher rpms to increase hp and reduce valve overlap
Will be nice to compare egt variance of all 8 cyl under boost vs na.
how about a big single 90+mm on a 5.3? hmmmm.
Why not reved until 7k in the compare?
You have a video of a test of lsa’s for boost
Lobe separation
there is an lsa test video up
So given the common types of carbureted intakes for a traditional gen 1 SBC, and the “common knowledge” that a dual plane intake is bad for nitrous and/or boost because of cylinder distribution, would a long runner dual plane, such as a Performer RPM actually be a better choice than a short runner Victor Jr for a typical boosted motor running 6500 RPM and below, or is the cylinder distribution such a worry that any potential losses from a short runner are worth not leaning out one cylinder?
What's the scoop on the big bang big block mr
So for the best street machine lq4 (under 5500 rpm) i want a long runner intake and 220 or less cam duration and 706 heads?
that works
@@richardholdener1727 you should build an intake like the variable length headers and see how long you can go before it hurts performance. Just an idea.
Wish you had done a stock LS3 intake as well.
Richard what's the max amount of boost you would run through that lsxrt? 30psi?
Have you ever tested some of the cheap eBay intake manifolds?
How about single vs twins. Power, response torque?
if they r sized in similar fashion for the power level-its the same
just boils down to less restriction can flow more air.
Are you going to show any of your 5.0l ford stuff you keep talking about there is some of us out here that still run a Sbf
Yes please. Hope you are reading this hands holdener.
Measure the runner length.
But I guess
Long = 12
Short = 4
The Hi Ram is double that I think
Chow Dong you have to include the port length inside the head. Hemis usually have shorter ports than a wedge head like a big block Chevy.
@@mikehoncho5389
You are correct.
But people selling expensive parts, try to confuse the public.
My shop is G.M., small block, Big block, LT-1, LS.
Is what I grew -up with.
Hi rich arch what’s your thoughts on inlet manifold volume?
Richard*
plenum volume has minimal effect-do a search for Kegalodon
Hurting the feelings of they keyboard warriors again
Dear Mr. Richard. I'm a huge fan of the videos and I hope that you start messing with Ecotecs one day for us domestic tuner junk yard build guys.
I’m pretty sure Richard Holdener’s punching bag is full of 706 heads...in fact, I would suspect his entire home gym is comprised of heads, cranks and a block or two. 😂
So, short runner is good for boat motors?
How close is the plenum volume to each other.
Plenum volume has nothing to do with it when the throttle is wide open.
Plenum volume actually creates Helmholtz Resonance waves but they are less effective than Reflected waves for power production
It's what mechanics refer to as helmholtz resonance but it's not because the mathematical formula will not fit.
Ring Gap! Do you have any more info on this and suggestions? Videos?
we run .030 or so
When will we get the twin turbo big block?
The video link wasn’t there for the ls6 vs sheet metal
Jeez, I don't consider myself a dumb guy by any reason but I just cannot wrap my head around this under boost.
If there's 10 lbs of boost at the intake valve (basically downstream of intake) and it isn't going to change, how's the motor know the difference between the two? When the intake valve opens, there's your 10# of boosted air!
And two people with long runner street turbo cars disliked this video lol.
That's not the only thing going on in the intake-there are other pressure waves going down the runner to the open intake valve, then back, then down again, then back etc... These (reflected) pressure waves, if timed right, help improve cylinder filling. That's why we see the difference in power of the two intakes, these waves are tuned for power gains at rpm (Cuz the waves travel at the speed of sound and it takes a certain amount of time to make the trip up and back). Thus runner length determines when they arrive.
The problem is that you've been conditioned to think that boosted engines and naturally aspirated engines operate differently. They don't.
Richard Holdener That helps!
So, not to deliberately change the subject because I am struggling LOL but do you still have that old Fox Mustang?
What about plenum volume?
It's funny how you get away with saying ft*lbs but writing lb*ft. I used to get harassed about that all the time til I kicked some people out of my house.
It's feet times pounds (NOT divided by) so really doesn' t matter which way around you put them.
@@1magnit I guess I should change that to avoid confusion. Thanks.
Where does the TBSS fit into this test?
Less than the Fast-still good in the 6500 rpm range
Richard Holdener thanks!! Thanks again for doing all the work for us!
Fuel leak @2:58?
Even my kid tells people, "it's just physics man".
👐
Richard we’re running out of questions to ask!!
WONG
So much MORE.
Running superchargers with ELECTRIC MOTORS.
MEASURE C.F.M. & BOOST.
@@nellyfarnsworth7381 Does Summit Racing now offer electric superchargers? 😆
@@bimmerman9839
But are they $100. Or less.
My local pick -a- part.
I pick up M-62, M-90, M-112, M-122 EATONS. JUST CHANGE THE OIL 🛢.
LOOKING FOR A M-112, my 4.6 liter mustang project. S.O.H.C. 4.6 LITER 500 H.P. BUT WILL NOT PAY OVER $100.
YOU HAVE A EXCELLENT M-112????
$1000 intake. $800 cam & springs. Wow. Junkyard LS motors are cheap.....
Stick to your love of 4bolt main small blocks. You don't know anything about ls engines if you think they aren't cheap
EGGINFOOLS actually I’m a Ford guy so I’m used to paying high prices for go-fast parts.
$800 cam and springs?
Come on dual plane.... oh it’s all injected.
check out the 20 intake test Hot Rod (google search it) for all the info you want on single and dual planes on the LS
Richard Holdener ok thanks I’ll check it out now. Is this a boosted article? I’m trying to see how the ls responds with a dual plane under boost.
@@Tariq_F._Raheem86 it doesn't matter
Austin Doud I’m more interested in fuel distribution and at what point it becomes a problem on a blow through carbed ls. So it matters a bit.