BIG BANG 6.0L LS (GEN 3&4)-SBE-TWIN TURBO-29 PSI! MAX BOOST!

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  • Опубликовано: 6 мар 2020
  • FULL BOOSTED RESULTS (29 PSI!). JUNKYARD SBE 6.0Ls (Gen 3 vs Gen 4). We ran both a gen 3 and gen 4 6.0L to find out how much power the stock Block, Crank, Rods & Pistons can take. Of course we added ring gap, then topped them with good heads, cam and intake. We also added twin s475 Borg turbos and an ATW IC with Ice water. We cranked up the boost til they couldn't take it any more! Help us figure out what happened on the Gen 3 6.0L at Mega Boost!
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Комментарии • 982

  • @camaromustangmods3327
    @camaromustangmods3327 4 года назад +290

    When Richard Holdner walks into a junkyard LS engines run for their lives. Great video.

    • @jimimacross6115
      @jimimacross6115 4 года назад +8

      "LMAO!!!.."NO SHIT!!

    • @philipwade5559
      @philipwade5559 4 года назад +3

      LMAO!!!🤣🤣🤣

    • @ariczacari
      @ariczacari 3 года назад +1

      Lmao!

    • @bigblock509
      @bigblock509 3 года назад

      🤣

    • @LS__812
      @LS__812 3 года назад +13

      Or maybe they stand up straight, shoulders back and proudly say "I'll show the internet what I'm capable of!" Lol

  • @TheTmshuman
    @TheTmshuman 4 года назад +108

    Woke up and almost called the cops to go looking for you when I didn’t see a 2 am upload. Thank god your OK.

    • @jaydubb71
      @jaydubb71 4 года назад +4

      LMAO right!

    • @robertelmo7736
      @robertelmo7736 4 года назад +1

      LOL a "wellness check"?

    • @hydrocarbon8272
      @hydrocarbon8272 4 года назад

      "Check the SHOP first? What kinda nut are we checking in on? Jeez" -Cops, probably

  • @SloppyMechanics
    @SloppyMechanics 4 года назад +99

    lol at the snoring! for the recap!

    • @richardholdener1727
      @richardholdener1727  4 года назад +29

      That's Milo

    • @earlhopkins3745
      @earlhopkins3745 3 года назад +1

      Richard, this is my most favorite test you've done. Mainly because I'm building a twin 403 stroker. After reviewing many of your videos on the LS 6.0's I have to think the intake and cam played big roles in your torque findings. On the Gen IV it seems you used a intake and cam that was designed for twin turbos. Let me know what your thoughts are. Also, I think both test may have been over turboed for such a small engine. Wouldn't 66-72mm turbos work better? What do these turbos look like when plotted on a map?

    • @stevenjenks9789
      @stevenjenks9789 3 года назад +1

      😂😂😂😆😆😆

    • @claytoncarter
      @claytoncarter 3 года назад +1

      I make the same noises hunched over at my computer. 😂

    • @mosesjonathan1240
      @mosesjonathan1240 2 года назад

      instablaster

  • @LS__812
    @LS__812 4 года назад +86

    Richard. I wanna thank you for blessing my days with a bountiful amount of horsepower, torque, and power adders! I do truly enjoy your love of building and testing engines and it definitely shows thru your videos! Please keep'em coming!

  • @jamesaustin4044
    @jamesaustin4044 4 года назад +186

    Snoring dog was not impressed. Gonna have to step it up somehow, Richard. ; )

    • @richardholdener1727
      @richardholdener1727  4 года назад +59

      they R my film crew

    • @camaromustangmods3327
      @camaromustangmods3327 4 года назад +18

      Lol. I thought I was the only one who heard that. Good shit.

    • @johnparrish9215
      @johnparrish9215 4 года назад +4

      @@richardholdener1727 Sounded just like my English Bulldog, Roscoe.

    • @fredred8371
      @fredred8371 4 года назад +5

      Let sleeping dogs lie

    • @robertelmo7736
      @robertelmo7736 4 года назад +7

      That's funny, this old stray (found sitting in the middle of the road) in the bed behind me is knocking it out right now. I thought the sounds were him and didn't realize it until I was perusing through the comments lol!
      He's doing good since he won the lottery.

  • @killsalltires156
    @killsalltires156 2 года назад +8

    Can't believe a stock 6.0 can hold that much power. That's a badass motor with a few minor upgrades no wounder it's such a popular motor to swap out. Thanks for all your knowledge and commitment to blowing Motors up Richard!. 👍🙏🇨🇦

  • @tngtacticalmiata1219
    @tngtacticalmiata1219 4 года назад +5

    I still can't get over how much power you can make with these motors straight from the damn junk yard. It's obscene! And awesome!!!!
    It used to cost upwards of $30 or $40k to make that kind of power.
    Unreal.....

    • @JD-rq7il
      @JD-rq7il 4 года назад +4

      That $30-40k will make that power day in and day out. You are on borrowed time pushing 1500hp on these engines. Don't get me wrong, it's flat out awesome, but these are no comparison to the built motors of the heavy hitting companies...

  • @glennroy-johnson705
    @glennroy-johnson705 4 года назад +9

    Your big bang test is what gave me the final push to try and swap a ls1 into a car, then Matt gave me the knowledge and kick in the pants to just get it done. Thank You.

  • @mannyr.2756
    @mannyr.2756 4 года назад +32

    Long live the LS family, LS rules!....🤘

    • @MattPratt
      @MattPratt 4 года назад +2

      The Richard Holdener tax coming to a junkyard near you. Buy stonks in used LS engines now!

    • @Aseutester
      @Aseutester 4 года назад

      What about the new DI LTs?!

  • @Erichhh
    @Erichhh 4 года назад +15

    Gen 3 rods buckle at a lower cylinder pressure than the beefier Gen 4 rods, and the higher torque production of the Gen 3 at the lower RPM meant that it had higher cylinder pressure vs. the Gen 4. Usually the rods buckle in an "S" shape due to the I-beam cross section being weaker in that direction. This makes the rod shorter, which makes the piston pin bosses hit the crank counterweights. The pin boss gets dented, then grabs the pin. One key difference in Gen 3 was that the pins are press-fit into the rod eye, vs. full-floating on Gen 4. This grabbing/binding makes the piston crack and break, then massive destruction happens from there because there's an unrestrained T-shaped battering ram bouncing around in the cylinder bore.

    • @Erichhh
      @Erichhh 4 года назад

      Here's what it looks like if you catch it before the piston pin boss gets dented enough to grab the piston pin: ruclips.net/video/D0Hh_nD0N1Q/видео.html

  • @BIGTONY2132001
    @BIGTONY2132001 4 года назад +8

    " I'll show you some of the damage is pretty cool" everyone here definitely loves this guy!!

  • @XHikotheproX
    @XHikotheproX 4 года назад +4

    Man I love these videos. Not often you see somebody sharing this kind of information and it just helps the car community in general.

  • @CHINGY1993
    @CHINGY1993 4 года назад +7

    These videos are top stuff so much good ls info thank you so much richard

  • @soundslikealot
    @soundslikealot 4 года назад +9

    Wow, now that's what you call TORQUE! 💪 Awesome!

  • @davestumpsracingperformanc3475
    @davestumpsracingperformanc3475 Год назад +1

    Im glad we have you for guidance and reference sir! Always great vids and you are very helpful! Thank you sir 🏁

  • @michaellecount5146
    @michaellecount5146 4 года назад +1

    I have learned so much from your videos! Thank you for sharing!

  • @chadshows187
    @chadshows187 2 года назад +20

    Awesome content as usual, keep it up Richard!
    I'd love to see a 6.0 turbo tow motor build to focus on maximizing torque made low. Not crazy numbers but a good reliable combo.

    • @jacegdisis3720
      @jacegdisis3720 Год назад

      Me too, just towed about 7.5k to 8.5k lbs yesterday and I had to go up some very steep grades in my 2004 silverado (6.0L) and she was struggling I’d approach the hills at about 65-70mph and drop down to 50-55mph at 75% throttle, and I have like a 4.10 diff so good for towing, I just need to make more power

    • @marcowens-gq5sy
      @marcowens-gq5sy Год назад

      ​@@jacegdisis3720 no you need to regear if you're towing that much. You need 4.56 gears or higher.

    • @solomon4933
      @solomon4933 10 месяцев назад

      ​@@marcowens-gq5syyeah towing a turbos 😆 U want a strong tow vehicle go a pd blower easy

  • @johnwoodworth248
    @johnwoodworth248 4 года назад +74

    It is amazing how "easy " it is to make four digit power number ratings these days , you take 15 or 20 years ago if you told somebody that you had a small block that made an excess of thousand horsepower that you could go drive every day and get groceries with they would probably look at you quite strange lol

    • @viciousrap700
      @viciousrap700 4 года назад +17

      And with shelf parts and not a ton of money. You'd spend way more in the chassis of a car to make it really work for the full potential of the engine.

    • @michaelcouey1383
      @michaelcouey1383 4 года назад +16

      I remember the old days reading freiburger's articles where they'd do a "budget build" that was still over $2500 and they were overjoyed when it made one HP per CI

    • @PredaFran
      @PredaFran 4 года назад +6

      @@michaelcouey1383 keep in mind the cost for the engine management system and the electrical parts and supplies needed will hey close to that before the turbos are in the budget. horsepower is cheap but not that cheap. These Engines make payment wet not only because of the engine being better but the management system being light years ahead

    • @Aseutester
      @Aseutester 4 года назад +4

      @@PredaFran Hear hear EFI is a quantum leap better than 20+ years ago!

    • @PredaFran
      @PredaFran 4 года назад +4

      @@Aseutester EFI and electronic ignition timing are absolutely a quantum leap. I'm not saying a carb and a dizzy can't make big power but you are giving power and reliability away. Which you definitely want when doing 4 digit power a

  • @bluemustang7416
    @bluemustang7416 4 года назад +2

    Definitely thought provoking video. Can't wait to see the follow up. To see if the gen3 is capable of more peak power.

  • @omegared8663
    @omegared8663 3 года назад

    I love your channel. no bs. Straight to the point.

  • @randywilliams4325
    @randywilliams4325 4 года назад +54

    Build the gen 3 engine again with gen 4 rods or some aftermarket rods .

    • @bobbobby1846
      @bobbobby1846 4 года назад +6

      this do this!

    • @shadowopsairman1583
      @shadowopsairman1583 3 года назад

      You can get a 2007 Classic Bowtie block with gen 4 parts, LR4, LM7 etc

    • @BruceLee-xn3nn
      @BruceLee-xn3nn 2 года назад

      Powdered metal rods were used in later model 7.3 powerestrokes. They're not that great at handling torque

  • @laborer4321
    @laborer4321 4 года назад +4

    Great work!!! Definitely was the tq that that pushed the gen3 over the edge. What s475 were you using on the gen3? Either run the s475 but with a bigger turbine wheel to slow down some of the boost or run a bigger cam to soften the midrange tq. Also was it me or was there fuel leaking on the gen3 driver side rail?
    I have a gen3 4.great with a t4 s475 (7575) with a jfr 212/212 that I daily. It's been my favorite setup out of all my ls powered rides.

  • @markdonovan9247
    @markdonovan9247 2 года назад +2

    Another great video!

  • @AndyR1982
    @AndyR1982 4 года назад

    Love the videos. Something that personally made me like this specific video more was the fact that the Borg Warner you showed was cast at my company. I can tell by the CT foundry identifier after the 063G. And I'll go as far as to tell you it was molded and cast October 14, 2014.

  • @matthewritchie3595
    @matthewritchie3595 4 года назад +8

    Love your videos. I have a question I wanna build something that can be daily driven and not have a ton of lag. 4500rpm looks like when boost comes on I'm looking more for 3000rpm range to make it more driver friendly. Is it possible to test it on littler smaller turbos and still make 1200 or more HP for good low grunt then crank the boost and race. Also interested in MPG effects and longevity keep up good works man these videos I live for.

  • @16vg60mikey
    @16vg60mikey 4 года назад +3

    Excellent video! Making more torque and at a lower RPM is a sure way to test those rods. Wonder how far you could push the earlier motor with a progressive boost curve to keep torque in check.

  • @richdudecamaro
    @richdudecamaro 4 года назад

    Can't wait to see you run the gen4 again!!!! Been waiting on this for a while now 🥰

  • @greazedlightninggarage6768
    @greazedlightninggarage6768 4 года назад +2

    👏😁 I learn something everytime I tune in!!!

  • @zackthomas5707
    @zackthomas5707 4 года назад +3

    New to forced induction, but I love this channel! Awesome video as always. Gonna try and take a stab at solving this so please correct me if I'm wrong, but if you reduce the timing in that rpm/ air mass range and maybe add a tiny bit more fuel to keep things a little cooler during that ramp in period(poor mans power enrichment if I may), that would pretty much do it wouldn't it? Also, if you limit boost on the intake side through the BOV assuming that's possible, you might spool those compressors up a bit faster by bypassing restrictions in the engine, reducing resistance on the compressors and work load on the turbines. Then you could dial it in perfect ramping in exactly how you need it. Like I said, I'm new to forced induction on gassers so by all means school me if I'm off in left field. Again awesome video.

  • @wakjob961
    @wakjob961 4 года назад +3

    CONGRATS ON 30K !

  • @Mattvardaman
    @Mattvardaman 3 года назад

    Great content, this is probably the fourth time I’ve watched this one.

  • @douglaspierce316
    @douglaspierce316 4 года назад +1

    see the chart better with you smiling face moved. thank you. love the show. what a great job you do. [and have great job]

  • @53chevsled
    @53chevsled 4 года назад +6

    I think the powdered metal rods of the gen3’s are weaker rods than the gen 4’s but at the same time the camshaft timing events of the twin turbo cam used in the gen 4 would also make a big difference in the torque curve/delivery , either way a great video showing the limiting factors of both gen’s 😎👍👍

  • @Eidrian111
    @Eidrian111 4 года назад +3

    Damn those gen 3 are awesome. Currently installing an lq9 with heads cams intake exhaust and procharger on a C5 Z06. I believe some diapers are in order.

  • @AbdulazizSaudl
    @AbdulazizSaudl 4 года назад

    Happy seeing your channel growing

  • @bigitaly4554
    @bigitaly4554 3 года назад +2

    Awesome testing, Richard
    I’m currently building up a 6.0 to put in my 79 Trans Am. Going N/A for now, but plan to put a turbo on it as budget allows. Hoping for like 440hp/400tq now, 650hp/640tq with added atmosphere.

  • @Tiersmoke92555
    @Tiersmoke92555 4 года назад +16

    The best dynoman on that side of the Mississippi. "I guarantee!" "A little boost for you, a little boost for me."

  • @TurboDog73TX
    @TurboDog73TX 4 года назад +3

    I definitely feel that the quicker torque rise of the Gen 3 version is what killed it.
    I'd really like to see any or all the big bang tests done on M1..

  • @shanemiller9307
    @shanemiller9307 2 года назад +1

    I think I’ve watched this 10 times. Great video

  • @genelong1748
    @genelong1748 3 года назад +2

    Thank you. Love your shows . Would love to tell you about my father and his turbo corvair. When everyone gave up he kicked asses in Texas auto cross now called rally

  • @johnwehunt4305
    @johnwehunt4305 3 года назад +4

    L33 block with Gen IV rotating assembly. Cheap way to survive the carnage.

  • @LEGOCAMARO
    @LEGOCAMARO 4 года назад +3

    Trying to make the most out of a stock bottom end. My first change would be the fuel Nitromethane would let you run cooler and make more power with less psi. But will not be for a long term deal. Don’t hit it hard off the pull and check the rods for any sharp points where heat can build up. Round them off.

  • @bobqzzi
    @bobqzzi 4 года назад +2

    When I used to do turbo imports, I would generally set the torque at what I figured the internals and drivetrain could take. Once it was on the gate, I would adjust boost to keep the torque at say 300 lb/ft

  • @jaimeozuna5879
    @jaimeozuna5879 3 года назад +1

    Great video just great! Love all the info👍

  • @CamaroRick
    @CamaroRick 4 года назад +7

    The rod wasnt all discolored so it doesnt look like a bearing failure. Makes sense. Now test the limits of cheap forged H beam vs I beam

  • @shannonsisk
    @shannonsisk 4 года назад +22

    I think it might be gear changes that are the hardest on the stock bottom ends. Spinning to 7k making 1k hp and then BAM shift gears and draaaags the motor down in rpm. That’ll make some cylinder pressure

    • @Baard2000
      @Baard2000 3 года назад +3

      Thats the difference in building an engine for drag race , road race , tractor pull etc...

  • @fokjohnpainkiller
    @fokjohnpainkiller 4 года назад

    Cute doggo snoring in the background melt my heart

  • @woog74
    @woog74 4 года назад +1

    Thx for another great video.

  • @stacekirstein9646
    @stacekirstein9646 4 года назад +5

    I’d like to see the high ram on the gen 4 - I think the difference in torque may be found in the change in intake manifold

  • @slysithejuicegy
    @slysithejuicegy 4 года назад +3

    To really push the gen 3 I think you need both strategies. Cam\head's\intake\turbo to shape the torque curve and boost management as a final safeguard. There is no point trying to make power up high if the combo is spent.
    Anyways this is all old news in the 4 cylinder world. They push boost right to the ragged edge of the rods, piston's and head gaskets. The tuner can window the block on command.

  • @jonaswetterskog3056
    @jonaswetterskog3056 4 года назад +1

    Love this! Greetings from Sweden 👍

  • @jerrysantos7460
    @jerrysantos7460 4 года назад +1

    love these videos!!!!

  • @MafiaboysWorld
    @MafiaboysWorld 4 года назад +40

    Definitely has to do with rod thickness Richard. Gen 3s have thinner rods compared to Gen 4s so putting 1330ft/lb will snap the Gen 3 rods all day. After reading some articles I notice that there were some Gen 3s fitted with Gen 4 internals around 2004-05 during the transition to Gen 4. Maybe that's the solution, Gen 4 rods in the Gen 3 block. 🤔

    • @GustavoGarcia-tf1gm
      @GustavoGarcia-tf1gm 4 года назад +7

      Correct I have a Lq4 out of a 04 Sierra 2500 and it was a gen 3 with gen 4 internals no vvt or afn

    • @dustinjackson8646
      @dustinjackson8646 4 года назад +2

      Same here. 2005 Gen 3 5.3 with Gen 4 internals. Got lucky!

    • @tylersmith7054
      @tylersmith7054 4 года назад

      My first junkyard motor was an 05 5.3 L59. It was a gen 3 with gen 4 rods.

    • @dudemcgee256
      @dudemcgee256 4 года назад

      Really? I have a 2005 GMC Sierra Denali with an LQ9, I wonder if it has the bigger rods?

    • @cc23001
      @cc23001 4 года назад +11

      Yes we call those gen 3.5s. Easiest way to tell is they went from 10mm to 13mm heads on the exhaust manifold and valley cover bolts

  • @RL-RL
    @RL-RL 4 года назад +11

    So if possible, always go with Gen4 rods. Got it!

    • @alafrosty
      @alafrosty 3 года назад

      Nope. The Gen-4 rods didn't exceed 1250 ft-lbs. You only know that the Gen-3 rods are known good for 1300+ foot-lbs and that the gen-4 rods are known-good for 1250+ ft-lbs. Without seeing a gen-4 drop a rod on a dyno run, I'd put my money on the gen-3 rods for strength. That said, the gen-4 6.0 rods were designed to be stronger. But how do they really work/fail at the limit?

  • @alysshakerslake6191
    @alysshakerslake6191 4 года назад +1

    Thanx for the great video!!

  • @2JZLS
    @2JZLS 4 года назад +2

    So excited to see what the Gen 4 can do with the 4-bar MAP sensor! I predict over 1750hp.

  • @yuyaarai8207
    @yuyaarai8207 4 года назад +6

    I’d like to see the comparison between draw through turbo setup vs the blow through turbo setup. Also I’d be interested to see if draw through setup works just fine with EFI just like pre-turbine water/methanol injection but with gasoline or E85. I appreciate you and your videos.

    • @dalethomas9307
      @dalethomas9307 4 года назад +1

      Im my experience pre turbo water/meth injection is hell on the compressor blades. Think about how fast the compressor is spinning and the fact that it is ingesting liquid not a vapor. there is never enough inlet pipe in front of the the turbo to get the nozzle far enough away from the compressor for the liquid to totally atomize.

  • @Blood04
    @Blood04 4 года назад +3

    i can't wait for that 4 bar run

  • @nathanlodder1006
    @nathanlodder1006 4 года назад +1

    Thanks again Richard!

  • @rifleman7313
    @rifleman7313 2 года назад +2

    Great job analyzing the difference between gen 3 and gen 4 6.0L. I imagine that it would be more prevalent if it was a gen 3 5.3L and a gen 4 5.3L based 383 stroker. However I don't know.

  • @Tylerbfz
    @Tylerbfz 4 года назад +3

    I think with the different cam and different heads between the two it’s kinda of hard to say which is better. I’d like to see the test redone with all matching parts on both engines so we have a definitive answer

  • @kenhar1000
    @kenhar1000 4 года назад +7

    nuts to run that much boost on that combo. surprised the head gaskets held. #1 engine just broke a rod due to load. I've seen other LS lift heads off the gaskets with studs at those boost levels. in short there was nothing wrong with either engine just not created to do that much on stock parts, but did show what an LS can do!!!!!!!!!

    • @funnlivinit
      @funnlivinit 4 года назад +4

      Yes. The entire premise of the series is to find out how much power they can take. I guess he found out!

  • @fitzeesfabrications
    @fitzeesfabrications 4 года назад +1

    I been researching low torque longer life on stock LS combos. Maybe this is why the smaller 4.8 , 5.3 can make so much power the torque numbers are not as great. Very informative video. I wonder if you did the same test on another gen 3 with what you know could you get more out of it?

    • @needadate
      @needadate 4 года назад +2

      They make less torque because of less stroke. The rods break at the same force, so you'd grenade a 4.8 at a lower torque number...

    • @fitzeesfabrications
      @fitzeesfabrications 4 года назад +1

      @@needadate my understand that a short stroke motor has less strain on the rods then a long stroke engine so where by you could rev it higher to reach those same toque numbers and by doing so making more hp then the long rod at a lower rpm?

    • @needadate
      @needadate 4 года назад +2

      More stroke means more (average) piston speed and thus more force at a given RPM. Rod/stroke ratio also factors in by affecting the acceleration curve.
      That has approximately nothing to do with why these rods broke, though. They were simply overloaded during the combustion cycle.
      An Otto motor makes power by directing the pressure from the combustion through the piston, making force (pressure x area) and transferring this force via the connecting rod to the crankshaft, making torque (force x lever). Torque is then multiplied with RPM to make power - more RPM = more power.
      Through the gearbox to the driven wheels, power is then broken down to torque and finally a force against the pavement: a given (horse)power number equals the exact same torque and force at any given vehicle speed, regardless of engine RPM.
      Combustion pressure has the same practical maximum regardless of stroke and if you double the stroke in a given motor, you will get double the torque and double the power at a given RPM. In no way would you ever get more torque from a shorter stroke with the other components the same. You will have the torque _peak_ at a higher RPM because of the smaller displacement volume - more or less directly proportional to each other - but the torque _value_ will be lower and proportional to the stroke.

    • @richardholdener1727
      @richardholdener1727  4 года назад +2

      rev it higher=less torque

  • @TheProchargedmopar
    @TheProchargedmopar 4 года назад +1

    Super deluxe. Cool vid, excellent questions! 👍

  • @connordavis5086
    @connordavis5086 4 года назад +36

    It would be interesting to see how long that Gen4 6L would last at 29.2lbs

    • @GreatLakesLogger
      @GreatLakesLogger 4 года назад +6

      The thing is is that it would be difficult to load the engine hard enough in a street vehicle to be able to make that much boost so you would very rarely make it up there.

    • @Aseutester
      @Aseutester 4 года назад +3

      @@GreatLakesLogger Are you talking about Getting the power to the ground/ Tire Grip?!

    • @GreatLakesLogger
      @GreatLakesLogger 4 года назад +4

      @@Aseutester ya. Maintaining enough traction to keep the load on the street. Track is a different story but I drive exclusively offroad or streets so I never have that kind of prep.

    • @Aseutester
      @Aseutester 4 года назад +2

      @@GreatLakesLogger indeed if you can't really use it why make it/waste fuel!

    • @deanstevenson6527
      @deanstevenson6527 4 года назад

      Connor Davis : It'll be Divine if its not At It All the Time. The "Twerk" curve at a 3.0 dag yum effective boost ratio is a stock good six liters 1.31 ft-lbs per cube times 3.. Thats a 6 liters' 366 cubes timez 3.63 ft-lb and that gives 1330 ft lbs.
      David Vizard and the old boys tried boost modulation to pull back on rod beam failure on 70 to 74 Pintos and JanSpeed A series 1275 Fours back in the mid 70s to early 80s . Holley HP and the waste gates can be boost controlled by ignition degradation or by simple bleed off at the controller. Protect the rods brotherz. The stock GM rods are hell for stout, but they are just production rods. Cross Sectional Area Maketh the Strength. Its gutta have Junk in itz Trunk to handle the Bezerk Twerk...

  • @basscube5
    @basscube5 4 года назад +9

    You're overthinking how to reduce the torque a little to keep the engine alive. Soften up the timing at/below the torque peak but I feel like you know this ;) We manage traction at the drag strip through ignition timing because turbos don't respond in an instant. Wonderful content btw. Love your channel.

  • @Levibetz
    @Levibetz 4 года назад +2

    Interesting stuff! I agree with bleeding the boost in. Get the engine to rev harder, it looks like the torque curve isn't dropping off too hard. If you can make more power between say 5500 and 7500, that's a win for a race car, that's where it'd be during a pass.

  • @brandonpanozzo86
    @brandonpanozzo86 4 года назад +1

    you are the man richard

  • @escuelaviejafarms
    @escuelaviejafarms 4 года назад +3

    I blew a block once. Grenadeed a 350 in a truck that I just bought on the I-5 freeway, heading to L.A. for the weekend. I smoked all 5 Lanes of rush hour traffic, LOL. No power adders needed, LOL!

    • @Obshowersyndicate
      @Obshowersyndicate 4 года назад +3

      I threw a rod on a 350 in my 260z and had it towed back to my nice gated community apt parking lot not knowing what had happened to it. Later that night a neighbor knocked on my door to tell me my car was hemorrhaging all over the parking lot . The water filled up the pan and pushed all the oil out of the hole in the block I didn't see.

    • @escuelaviejafarms
      @escuelaviejafarms 4 года назад +2

      @@Obshowersyndicate I left all the oil in the engine from the fast lane, all the way to the side of the road to the right of the slow lane. I had to stand with both feet on the brakes to get the 3/4 ton 1972 Chevy to a safe stop. I jumped out and checked out the bottom of the engine, it was pissing oil all over. I eventually got it towed back to base and started working on it at the auto shop. Come to find out the #7 piston popped, literally left a hole the size of my fist in the lifter valley and a chunk of rod went south. I pulled a H.O. 305 out of a burnt up 80's Camaro, dropped it in and never could get it to run right. I didn't have the money to store it at the auto shop and fix it, so I handed them the title to pay for the bill. I miss that truck.

  • @austindoud273
    @austindoud273 4 года назад +11

    Didn't window the block go again

  • @2765r
    @2765r 4 года назад

    Bad ass video. So couple of questions.
    1. What’s the HP/TQ with auto or stick
    2. Have you did a comparison with bottle ?

  • @dgo9121
    @dgo9121 4 года назад +2

    You know shit is about to go down when he says "we're gonna get all CSI up in here"

  • @jasonshawaga3413
    @jasonshawaga3413 4 года назад +5

    1:10. Fuel leaking a bit. Crazy power tho!

  • @ABetterLifeInc
    @ABetterLifeInc 4 года назад +8

    I think it was the higher torque at a lower RPM.

  • @meryjaneturbo3043
    @meryjaneturbo3043 2 года назад +1

    THANKS RICHARD

  • @sydneyACE
    @sydneyACE 4 года назад

    Hey Richard, thanks for the informative videos!
    Would you mind talking just a little bit about what fuels you are typically using in each video?
    I'm assuming you're running race gas to prevent detonation, but...
    Also maybe you could mention timing numbers too?
    Thanks again!

  • @benbrown2119
    @benbrown2119 4 года назад +34

    How about a stout set of aftermarket rods in the Gen 3 and then find the next weakest link?

    • @dilsher12
      @dilsher12 4 года назад +16

      Usually after that it's hard to get the head gasket to stay sealed

    • @jaydubb71
      @jaydubb71 4 года назад +3

      @@dilsher12 exactly

    • @viciousrap700
      @viciousrap700 4 года назад +2

      Yup that's what I said!

    • @rongravel4585
      @rongravel4585 4 года назад +5

      Piston ring lands and then the stock MLS head gasket would be the next failure points. After 30lbs of boost there’s a lot of precautions taken just to hold the pressure in.

    • @jaydubb71
      @jaydubb71 4 года назад +7

      All you need is a set of Gen 4 rods...

  • @brandonpeery8209
    @brandonpeery8209 4 года назад +7

    What timing was run between the two?

  • @jeffschwartz5199
    @jeffschwartz5199 4 года назад

    I'm sure you'll do whatever comes to mind! Got to like "a shot in the dark" , the best way to go ! 🌌

  • @brianmiller1149
    @brianmiller1149 4 года назад +1

    Great video!!

  • @brittoncraig9331
    @brittoncraig9331 4 года назад +21

    I'd like to see the timing tables from both

    • @darwinfridgeseals741
      @darwinfridgeseals741 4 года назад +4

      Yes please.

    • @ryguy440
      @ryguy440 4 года назад +3

      Yeah and wondering what is driving your timing curves. Are you monitoring detonation?

    • @Aseutester
      @Aseutester 4 года назад +2

      Very good question, the exhaust Gas temps must be going stratospheric!

  • @MadAdventure919
    @MadAdventure919 4 года назад +6

    Damn.... I have fully build 6.0l gen 4 on my twin turbo vette on 22psi E85 now and scratching my head if I should turn up 2psi more. 😆

  • @MrPOWHS
    @MrPOWHS 4 года назад

    Good god these shortblocks are unreal

  • @completetuningsolutions
    @completetuningsolutions 3 года назад

    100% agree with you. Much lower power levels but we snapped a rod on purpose on a 6g72 around 15 years ago, just to find that limit (we broke one off clean, another one bent). Did the same thing, torque dropped faster than the previous pulls and then snapped with massive carnage about 1000rpm later after the decline. What was the pull before like (the one that didn't pop the gen 3 and made it full time, about 1220 ft lbs. Curves more closely mirror lower pulls. Nice work, thank you for the research.

  • @keysautorepair6038
    @keysautorepair6038 4 года назад +34

    Question is how long will they live at this hp number.

    • @EPstroker
      @EPstroker 4 года назад +5

      Guessing about as long as a top fuel motor at the drag strip. Haha

    • @philllsxga.7737
      @philllsxga.7737 4 года назад +5

      That's what I ask.
      He should build a daily driver tester and moderately beat on it..

    • @joshuagibson2520
      @joshuagibson2520 3 года назад +2

      Yes. Leave it to us second gen Fbody guys to ask the important questions. Lol

    • @joshuagibson2520
      @joshuagibson2520 3 года назад +4

      See Cleetus' channel for the answer. 😂😂😂

    • @robertbelcher5068
      @robertbelcher5068 3 года назад +1

      depends how often you spend it. Not many places where you can put that kind of power to the road.

  • @Nickyb801
    @Nickyb801 4 года назад +3

    Can you share some of the Holley tune files? Like sloppy mechanic tune cabinet. Nice to be able to reference timing on the boosted LS engines.

    • @richardholdener1727
      @richardholdener1727  4 года назад +6

      the tuning (timing table) is only WOT-so the file is useless for anything but engine dyno runs

  • @christiancapps9896
    @christiancapps9896 4 года назад +1

    I finally realised who you remind me of, rich christenson. He used to do a show called pink's. Probably the hair cut but you've got quite the personality. Thanks for the vids you put out, found you after watching sloppy forever.

    • @chezleymcdonald2481
      @chezleymcdonald2481 4 года назад +1

      Christian Capps no offense but Richard has forgotten more than that dumb as at Pinks lol in the first season he did the arm drop with his hands by his side and flung them in the air when he wanted the cars to leave lol

    • @richardholdener1727
      @richardholdener1727  4 года назад

      Matt does good stuff over there-Rich Christensen had a good run over at Pinks

  • @bcbloc02
    @bcbloc02 4 года назад

    All those pieces on the windage tray didn't look like rod and block. Did it loose a piston too?

  • @boostnhoe
    @boostnhoe 4 года назад +3

    What ring gap do you run??? Love these videos.
    Ahmad

  • @MastersOfMask
    @MastersOfMask 4 года назад +11

    Can you make a video comparing non VVT and VVT GEN4 on boost. Both with the same amount of boost and rpm and with similar cams profiles.

    • @richardholdener1727
      @richardholdener1727  4 года назад +6

      VVT and Non VVT will have different cam profiles by design

    • @fastfox23
      @fastfox23 4 года назад

      I think the biggest difference would be power under the curve, VVT "should" be able to produce more torque earlier and maintain it out the end. That's all in the tuning, manipulating the cam timing to optimize it for that rpm.

    • @blk95gsrt
      @blk95gsrt 3 года назад

      If the cams were the same and both setups were optimized the peak hp and tq would be the same, but you could have power over a broader range with the vvt.

  • @stoplightbandit3965
    @stoplightbandit3965 2 года назад +1

    Great info

  • @typrus6377
    @typrus6377 4 года назад

    POP! Goes the boost hose!
    Always fun to lose a hose on a hard pull... First time I had it happen on a 25psi pull, I thought a dang shotgun went off... Had just upgraded the turbo to boot. Nearly had a heart attack and a need for fresh britches, but thankfully held it together hahaha

  • @davidleslie6207
    @davidleslie6207 4 года назад +11

    With all of this CRAZY HP and Torque, you need to test transmissions for there ability to hold this power.

    • @SweatyFatGuy
      @SweatyFatGuy 4 года назад +1

      Ally a need is a Saginaw 4 gear to hold that power, because they hold up to a basic chevy crate 350. ;) By Saginaw 4 speed I mean Lenco or Liberty manual, or a built with billet everywhere automatic.

    • @ronnieboucherthecrystalcraftsm
      @ronnieboucherthecrystalcraftsm 4 года назад +3

      @@SweatyFatGuy your dreaming with the saginaw = m22 muncie always out did them = i sold many spare parts cluster gears and main shafts for saginaw boxes - m22 only bearings and seals ! so your WRONG !

    • @SweatyFatGuy
      @SweatyFatGuy 4 года назад +3

      @@ronnieboucherthecrystalcraftsm Ya didn't read everything I said.. lol. I deliberately picked the least durable 4 gear offered behind V8s, the Sag is only marginally stronger than the T5. Ya know, an M22 is going to die behind 1300ftlbs if it ever hooks.
      I build transmissions, so I am quite aware of what will handle what power, and what it takes to make a Th400 live up there.
      If you happened to have read all of this comment, you will notice in the previous one I said by Saginaw I meant Lenco or something equally stout.

    • @viciousrap700
      @viciousrap700 4 года назад

      Thump Er I quite enjoyed the sarcasm in the comment lol

    • @SweatyFatGuy
      @SweatyFatGuy 4 года назад +1

      @@viciousrap700 Why thank you, I will be her all week, try the veal and tip your waitstaff.

  • @realstakes101
    @realstakes101 4 года назад +3

    I would really like to see pump gas numbers for daily drivers. 93

  • @Motor-City-Mike
    @Motor-City-Mike 4 года назад +1

    It's a question of cylinder pressure rise over time. This manifests itself in two ways, bring the boost in too early and the engine "spikes" the pistons with an overly high peak load (the lower rpm represents a longer period of time to "load" the cylinder with the intake charge), the higher boost at lower rpm represents Back Pressure - which indicates the engine isn't capable of processing the airflow the turbo(s) are producing at that engine speed.
    The alternate is ignition timing. The quickest way to destroy a boosted engine is to have it go into detonation under boost, the "hammering" effect knocks down ring lands, knocks holes in the piston(s), pounds the upper rod bearing and lower mains, and if violent enough breaks the rod.
    Without inspecting the entire bottom end it's just guessing why it failed - the parts themselves will show signs of exactly why it failed.
    Another question; did the rod fail in extension or compression?
    Hang an intake valve open and with the piston in "toss" mode it'll pull the rod apart.
    Gotta read the parts.

  • @tbl8560
    @tbl8560 4 года назад

    Excellent info Richard that begs some questions. Why the boost curve was early and higher in Gen 3? Cam events? Intake/heads? Fuel usage and/or timing different? Appears that 1250 peak tq is a safe limit on the gen 3 rods. Managing timing from 4700 past peak torq to at least 5700 before putting timing back in, is likely the safest/best/fastest approach. Lastly, any signs of bore issues? It seems that some 6.0 bores can be thin allowing cyl wall to split. Not sure how many 1/4 mile runs it takes to experience failure. Keep up the excellent work!

  • @davidcunningham00
    @davidcunningham00 4 года назад +5

    Someone is sleeping,. And this makes me rethink of my gen 3 rods, I was wanting to make 800

  • @Amsinckster
    @Amsinckster 4 года назад +6

    To limit torque i would reduce timing.

  • @EluderRacing
    @EluderRacing 4 года назад +1

    love your channel!!!! I am new to the LS game can you do or have you done a 1000hp budget build with a single turbo? id love to see a video of that or can you give me a recipe of what I need to achieve this

  • @scottvadon2095
    @scottvadon2095 4 года назад +2

    I L😍❤E this stuff !!! If(when?) I win the lottery I will built my own dyno cell and do this with mostly pushrod 5.0 HOs and some other crazy things I have rattling around in my head.

    • @richardholdener1727
      @richardholdener1727  4 года назад +1

      I've done lots of 5.0L-still have my 1988 5.0L LX bought back in Nov 1987

    • @scottvadon2095
      @scottvadon2095 4 года назад +1

      I bought a 1989 LX hatch new in February '89 ... wish I still had it. Been wanting another Fox. My current project is a 1978 Mustang II with a "Budget"(?😛) twin turbo 5.0HO