BIG BANG 6.0L LS (GEN 3&4)-SBE-TWIN TURBO-29 PSI! MAX BOOST!

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  • Опубликовано: 2 янв 2025

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  • @camaromustangmods3327
    @camaromustangmods3327 4 года назад +307

    When Richard Holdner walks into a junkyard LS engines run for their lives. Great video.

    • @jimimacross6115
      @jimimacross6115 4 года назад +8

      "LMAO!!!.."NO SHIT!!

    • @philipwade5559
      @philipwade5559 4 года назад +3

      LMAO!!!🤣🤣🤣

    • @ariczacari
      @ariczacari 4 года назад +1

      Lmao!

    • @bigblock509
      @bigblock509 4 года назад

      🤣

    • @LS__812
      @LS__812 4 года назад +15

      Or maybe they stand up straight, shoulders back and proudly say "I'll show the internet what I'm capable of!" Lol

  • @TheTmshuman
    @TheTmshuman 4 года назад +114

    Woke up and almost called the cops to go looking for you when I didn’t see a 2 am upload. Thank god your OK.

    • @jaydubb71
      @jaydubb71 4 года назад +4

      LMAO right!

    • @robertelmo7736
      @robertelmo7736 4 года назад +1

      LOL a "wellness check"?

    • @hydrocarbon82
      @hydrocarbon82 4 года назад

      "Check the SHOP first? What kinda nut are we checking in on? Jeez" -Cops, probably

  • @SloppyMechanics
    @SloppyMechanics 4 года назад +106

    lol at the snoring! for the recap!

    • @richardholdener1727
      @richardholdener1727  4 года назад +30

      That's Milo

    • @earlhopkins3745
      @earlhopkins3745 4 года назад +1

      Richard, this is my most favorite test you've done. Mainly because I'm building a twin 403 stroker. After reviewing many of your videos on the LS 6.0's I have to think the intake and cam played big roles in your torque findings. On the Gen IV it seems you used a intake and cam that was designed for twin turbos. Let me know what your thoughts are. Also, I think both test may have been over turboed for such a small engine. Wouldn't 66-72mm turbos work better? What do these turbos look like when plotted on a map?

    • @stevenjenks9789
      @stevenjenks9789 4 года назад +1

      😂😂😂😆😆😆

    • @claytoncarter
      @claytoncarter 3 года назад +1

      I make the same noises hunched over at my computer. 😂

    • @mosesjonathan1240
      @mosesjonathan1240 3 года назад

      instablaster

  • @LS__812
    @LS__812 4 года назад +87

    Richard. I wanna thank you for blessing my days with a bountiful amount of horsepower, torque, and power adders! I do truly enjoy your love of building and testing engines and it definitely shows thru your videos! Please keep'em coming!

  • @jamesaustin4044
    @jamesaustin4044 4 года назад +196

    Snoring dog was not impressed. Gonna have to step it up somehow, Richard. ; )

    • @richardholdener1727
      @richardholdener1727  4 года назад +63

      they R my film crew

    • @camaromustangmods3327
      @camaromustangmods3327 4 года назад +17

      Lol. I thought I was the only one who heard that. Good shit.

    • @johnparrish9215
      @johnparrish9215 4 года назад +4

      @@richardholdener1727 Sounded just like my English Bulldog, Roscoe.

    • @fredred8371
      @fredred8371 4 года назад +5

      Let sleeping dogs lie

    • @robertelmo7736
      @robertelmo7736 4 года назад +7

      That's funny, this old stray (found sitting in the middle of the road) in the bed behind me is knocking it out right now. I thought the sounds were him and didn't realize it until I was perusing through the comments lol!
      He's doing good since he won the lottery.

  • @glennroy-johnson705
    @glennroy-johnson705 4 года назад +9

    Your big bang test is what gave me the final push to try and swap a ls1 into a car, then Matt gave me the knowledge and kick in the pants to just get it done. Thank You.

  • @Erichhh
    @Erichhh 4 года назад +19

    Gen 3 rods buckle at a lower cylinder pressure than the beefier Gen 4 rods, and the higher torque production of the Gen 3 at the lower RPM meant that it had higher cylinder pressure vs. the Gen 4. Usually the rods buckle in an "S" shape due to the I-beam cross section being weaker in that direction. This makes the rod shorter, which makes the piston pin bosses hit the crank counterweights. The pin boss gets dented, then grabs the pin. One key difference in Gen 3 was that the pins are press-fit into the rod eye, vs. full-floating on Gen 4. This grabbing/binding makes the piston crack and break, then massive destruction happens from there because there's an unrestrained T-shaped battering ram bouncing around in the cylinder bore.

    • @Erichhh
      @Erichhh 4 года назад

      Here's what it looks like if you catch it before the piston pin boss gets dented enough to grab the piston pin: ruclips.net/video/D0Hh_nD0N1Q/видео.html

  • @killsalltires156
    @killsalltires156 3 года назад +8

    Can't believe a stock 6.0 can hold that much power. That's a badass motor with a few minor upgrades no wounder it's such a popular motor to swap out. Thanks for all your knowledge and commitment to blowing Motors up Richard!. 👍🙏🇨🇦

    • @jeepwk6.5L
      @jeepwk6.5L 4 месяца назад +1

      It didn't hold it, but it made it 😅

    • @gordocarbo
      @gordocarbo 3 месяца назад +1

      @@jeepwk6.5L Yes, which is still impressive. STock rod bolts wow.
      Wonder where the sweet spot is between good power and longevity
      Most these LS turbos builds scatter after a bit.

    • @jeepwk6.5L
      @jeepwk6.5L 3 месяца назад

      @@gordocarbo I agree, and yeah greed will get the best of any racer haha

  • @mannyr.2756
    @mannyr.2756 4 года назад +34

    Long live the LS family, LS rules!....🤘

    • @MattPratt
      @MattPratt 4 года назад +2

      The Richard Holdener tax coming to a junkyard near you. Buy stonks in used LS engines now!

    • @Aseutester
      @Aseutester 4 года назад

      What about the new DI LTs?!

  • @BIGTONY2132001
    @BIGTONY2132001 4 года назад +9

    " I'll show you some of the damage is pretty cool" everyone here definitely loves this guy!!

  • @tngtacticalmiata1219
    @tngtacticalmiata1219 4 года назад +7

    I still can't get over how much power you can make with these motors straight from the damn junk yard. It's obscene! And awesome!!!!
    It used to cost upwards of $30 or $40k to make that kind of power.
    Unreal.....

    • @JD-rq7il
      @JD-rq7il 4 года назад +4

      That $30-40k will make that power day in and day out. You are on borrowed time pushing 1500hp on these engines. Don't get me wrong, it's flat out awesome, but these are no comparison to the built motors of the heavy hitting companies...

    • @internetpointsbank
      @internetpointsbank 3 месяца назад +1

      Forged piston and decent rods this engine would be no different.

    • @tngtacticalmiata1219
      @tngtacticalmiata1219 3 месяца назад +1

      @@internetpointsbank indeed...
      You could even say the same thing to a slightly lesser degree about a mod-motor...
      I'm planning one of those in fact.
      95 Mark Viii with a decent rod and piston package should actually live for quite a while at pretty damn high output... depending on how hard it's driven, of course....

    • @gordocarbo
      @gordocarbo 3 месяца назад

      Its still costs that much...for one that will hold together.
      Interesting builds but blowing engines isnt my thing

  • @gordocarbo
    @gordocarbo 3 месяца назад +2

    To this day nobody even in the magazine days has done a variety of testing to every known application. Richard youve come a long ways bud.
    I

  • @XHikotheproX
    @XHikotheproX 4 года назад +5

    Man I love these videos. Not often you see somebody sharing this kind of information and it just helps the car community in general.

  • @johnwoodworth248
    @johnwoodworth248 4 года назад +76

    It is amazing how "easy " it is to make four digit power number ratings these days , you take 15 or 20 years ago if you told somebody that you had a small block that made an excess of thousand horsepower that you could go drive every day and get groceries with they would probably look at you quite strange lol

    • @viciousrap700
      @viciousrap700 4 года назад +17

      And with shelf parts and not a ton of money. You'd spend way more in the chassis of a car to make it really work for the full potential of the engine.

    • @michaelcouey1383
      @michaelcouey1383 4 года назад +16

      I remember the old days reading freiburger's articles where they'd do a "budget build" that was still over $2500 and they were overjoyed when it made one HP per CI

    • @PredaFran
      @PredaFran 4 года назад +6

      @@michaelcouey1383 keep in mind the cost for the engine management system and the electrical parts and supplies needed will hey close to that before the turbos are in the budget. horsepower is cheap but not that cheap. These Engines make payment wet not only because of the engine being better but the management system being light years ahead

    • @Aseutester
      @Aseutester 4 года назад +4

      @@PredaFran Hear hear EFI is a quantum leap better than 20+ years ago!

    • @PredaFran
      @PredaFran 4 года назад +4

      @@Aseutester EFI and electronic ignition timing are absolutely a quantum leap. I'm not saying a carb and a dizzy can't make big power but you are giving power and reliability away. Which you definitely want when doing 4 digit power a

  • @randywilliams4325
    @randywilliams4325 4 года назад +54

    Build the gen 3 engine again with gen 4 rods or some aftermarket rods .

    • @bobbobby1846
      @bobbobby1846 4 года назад +7

      this do this!

    • @shadowopsairman1583
      @shadowopsairman1583 4 года назад

      You can get a 2007 Classic Bowtie block with gen 4 parts, LR4, LM7 etc

    • @BruceLee-xn3nn
      @BruceLee-xn3nn 3 года назад

      Powdered metal rods were used in later model 7.3 powerestrokes. They're not that great at handling torque

  • @CHINGY1993
    @CHINGY1993 4 года назад +7

    These videos are top stuff so much good ls info thank you so much richard

  • @soundslikealot
    @soundslikealot 4 года назад +9

    Wow, now that's what you call TORQUE! 💪 Awesome!

  • @chadshows187
    @chadshows187 3 года назад +20

    Awesome content as usual, keep it up Richard!
    I'd love to see a 6.0 turbo tow motor build to focus on maximizing torque made low. Not crazy numbers but a good reliable combo.

    • @jacegdisis3720
      @jacegdisis3720 2 года назад

      Me too, just towed about 7.5k to 8.5k lbs yesterday and I had to go up some very steep grades in my 2004 silverado (6.0L) and she was struggling I’d approach the hills at about 65-70mph and drop down to 50-55mph at 75% throttle, and I have like a 4.10 diff so good for towing, I just need to make more power

    • @marcowens-gq5sy
      @marcowens-gq5sy Год назад

      ​@@jacegdisis3720 no you need to regear if you're towing that much. You need 4.56 gears or higher.

    • @solomon4933
      @solomon4933 Год назад

      ​@@marcowens-gq5syyeah towing a turbos 😆 U want a strong tow vehicle go a pd blower easy

  • @53chevsled
    @53chevsled 4 года назад +6

    I think the powdered metal rods of the gen3’s are weaker rods than the gen 4’s but at the same time the camshaft timing events of the twin turbo cam used in the gen 4 would also make a big difference in the torque curve/delivery , either way a great video showing the limiting factors of both gen’s 😎👍👍

  • @davestumpsracingperformanc3475
    @davestumpsracingperformanc3475 Год назад +1

    Im glad we have you for guidance and reference sir! Always great vids and you are very helpful! Thank you sir 🏁

  • @MafiaboysWorld
    @MafiaboysWorld 4 года назад +40

    Definitely has to do with rod thickness Richard. Gen 3s have thinner rods compared to Gen 4s so putting 1330ft/lb will snap the Gen 3 rods all day. After reading some articles I notice that there were some Gen 3s fitted with Gen 4 internals around 2004-05 during the transition to Gen 4. Maybe that's the solution, Gen 4 rods in the Gen 3 block. 🤔

    • @Redmaro96
      @Redmaro96 4 года назад +7

      Correct I have a Lq4 out of a 04 Sierra 2500 and it was a gen 3 with gen 4 internals no vvt or afn

    • @dustinjackson8646
      @dustinjackson8646 4 года назад +2

      Same here. 2005 Gen 3 5.3 with Gen 4 internals. Got lucky!

    • @tylersmith7054
      @tylersmith7054 4 года назад

      My first junkyard motor was an 05 5.3 L59. It was a gen 3 with gen 4 rods.

    • @dudemcgee256
      @dudemcgee256 4 года назад

      Really? I have a 2005 GMC Sierra Denali with an LQ9, I wonder if it has the bigger rods?

    • @cc23001
      @cc23001 4 года назад +11

      Yes we call those gen 3.5s. Easiest way to tell is they went from 10mm to 13mm heads on the exhaust manifold and valley cover bolts

  • @bluemustang7416
    @bluemustang7416 4 года назад +2

    Definitely thought provoking video. Can't wait to see the follow up. To see if the gen3 is capable of more peak power.

  • @brittoncraig9331
    @brittoncraig9331 4 года назад +21

    I'd like to see the timing tables from both

    • @darwinfridgeseals741
      @darwinfridgeseals741 4 года назад +4

      Yes please.

    • @ryguy440
      @ryguy440 4 года назад +3

      Yeah and wondering what is driving your timing curves. Are you monitoring detonation?

    • @Aseutester
      @Aseutester 4 года назад +2

      Very good question, the exhaust Gas temps must be going stratospheric!

  • @bigitaly4554
    @bigitaly4554 4 года назад +2

    Awesome testing, Richard
    I’m currently building up a 6.0 to put in my 79 Trans Am. Going N/A for now, but plan to put a turbo on it as budget allows. Hoping for like 440hp/400tq now, 650hp/640tq with added atmosphere.

  • @LEGOCAMARO
    @LEGOCAMARO 4 года назад +3

    Trying to make the most out of a stock bottom end. My first change would be the fuel Nitromethane would let you run cooler and make more power with less psi. But will not be for a long term deal. Don’t hit it hard off the pull and check the rods for any sharp points where heat can build up. Round them off.

  • @ernestoyager1689
    @ernestoyager1689 Месяц назад +2

    29 pounds of boost on stock bottom end is absolutely ludacris! Gm made those things insanely well

  • @basscube5
    @basscube5 4 года назад +9

    You're overthinking how to reduce the torque a little to keep the engine alive. Soften up the timing at/below the torque peak but I feel like you know this ;) We manage traction at the drag strip through ignition timing because turbos don't respond in an instant. Wonderful content btw. Love your channel.

  • @Motor-City-Mike
    @Motor-City-Mike 4 года назад +1

    It's a question of cylinder pressure rise over time. This manifests itself in two ways, bring the boost in too early and the engine "spikes" the pistons with an overly high peak load (the lower rpm represents a longer period of time to "load" the cylinder with the intake charge), the higher boost at lower rpm represents Back Pressure - which indicates the engine isn't capable of processing the airflow the turbo(s) are producing at that engine speed.
    The alternate is ignition timing. The quickest way to destroy a boosted engine is to have it go into detonation under boost, the "hammering" effect knocks down ring lands, knocks holes in the piston(s), pounds the upper rod bearing and lower mains, and if violent enough breaks the rod.
    Without inspecting the entire bottom end it's just guessing why it failed - the parts themselves will show signs of exactly why it failed.
    Another question; did the rod fail in extension or compression?
    Hang an intake valve open and with the piston in "toss" mode it'll pull the rod apart.
    Gotta read the parts.

  • @Tiersmoke92555
    @Tiersmoke92555 4 года назад +16

    The best dynoman on that side of the Mississippi. "I guarantee!" "A little boost for you, a little boost for me."

  • @shanemiller9307
    @shanemiller9307 2 года назад +1

    I think I’ve watched this 10 times. Great video

  • @benbrown2119
    @benbrown2119 4 года назад +35

    How about a stout set of aftermarket rods in the Gen 3 and then find the next weakest link?

    • @dilsher12
      @dilsher12 4 года назад +16

      Usually after that it's hard to get the head gasket to stay sealed

    • @jaydubb71
      @jaydubb71 4 года назад +3

      @@dilsher12 exactly

    • @viciousrap700
      @viciousrap700 4 года назад +2

      Yup that's what I said!

    • @rongravel4585
      @rongravel4585 4 года назад +5

      Piston ring lands and then the stock MLS head gasket would be the next failure points. After 30lbs of boost there’s a lot of precautions taken just to hold the pressure in.

    • @jaydubb71
      @jaydubb71 4 года назад +7

      All you need is a set of Gen 4 rods...

  • @414Chevy
    @414Chevy 4 года назад

    I think the biggest factor for the Gen 3 failure was the thinner rods vs thicker rods on the Gen 4. Gen 3 rods are like 608-610 grams, Gen 4's are like 657 grams, bigger beam and crank journal end. That's why a lot of junk yard build guys look for the Gen 4's over the Gen 3's. You reached the physical limit of the Gen 3 rod beam, probably started to stretch, or crack. I bet the Gen 4 engine could go to 1300 lb/ft and live. Gen 4 rods are very stout for a factory rod. Impressive that the Gen 3 could go so high before failing. Very very good info, thanks!!!!

  • @keysautorepair6038
    @keysautorepair6038 4 года назад +34

    Question is how long will they live at this hp number.

    • @EPstroker
      @EPstroker 4 года назад +5

      Guessing about as long as a top fuel motor at the drag strip. Haha

    • @philllsxga.7737
      @philllsxga.7737 4 года назад +6

      That's what I ask.
      He should build a daily driver tester and moderately beat on it..

    • @joshuagibson2520
      @joshuagibson2520 4 года назад +2

      Yes. Leave it to us second gen Fbody guys to ask the important questions. Lol

    • @joshuagibson2520
      @joshuagibson2520 4 года назад +4

      See Cleetus' channel for the answer. 😂😂😂

    • @robertbelcher5068
      @robertbelcher5068 4 года назад +2

      depends how often you spend it. Not many places where you can put that kind of power to the road.

  • @genelong1748
    @genelong1748 4 года назад +2

    Thank you. Love your shows . Would love to tell you about my father and his turbo corvair. When everyone gave up he kicked asses in Texas auto cross now called rally

  • @CamaroRick
    @CamaroRick 4 года назад +8

    The rod wasnt all discolored so it doesnt look like a bearing failure. Makes sense. Now test the limits of cheap forged H beam vs I beam

  • @christiancapps9896
    @christiancapps9896 4 года назад +1

    I finally realised who you remind me of, rich christenson. He used to do a show called pink's. Probably the hair cut but you've got quite the personality. Thanks for the vids you put out, found you after watching sloppy forever.

    • @chezleymcdonald2481
      @chezleymcdonald2481 4 года назад +1

      Christian Capps no offense but Richard has forgotten more than that dumb as at Pinks lol in the first season he did the arm drop with his hands by his side and flung them in the air when he wanted the cars to leave lol

    • @richardholdener1727
      @richardholdener1727  4 года назад

      Matt does good stuff over there-Rich Christensen had a good run over at Pinks

  • @stacekirstein9646
    @stacekirstein9646 4 года назад +5

    I’d like to see the high ram on the gen 4 - I think the difference in torque may be found in the change in intake manifold

  • @stevensullivan1805
    @stevensullivan1805 4 года назад +1

    I noticed the exhaust glowing red for quite awhile before the bottom end popped. The pistons will melt first usually seizing to the bore causing load on the rod. Needed carefully inspect the cylinder on tear down to determine what failed. I realize this may be impossible with to much damage. This would tell what direction tune up needs to go.

    • @richardholdener1727
      @richardholdener1727  4 года назад +1

      it was not tune

    • @stevensullivan1805
      @stevensullivan1805 4 года назад

      @@richardholdener1727 you are probably right. With the best setups 7.5 static plus 30 lbs of boost is at drag racing limits usually half to run alcohol fuels to keep it alive for 10 seconds at wot.

  • @zackthomas5707
    @zackthomas5707 4 года назад +3

    New to forced induction, but I love this channel! Awesome video as always. Gonna try and take a stab at solving this so please correct me if I'm wrong, but if you reduce the timing in that rpm/ air mass range and maybe add a tiny bit more fuel to keep things a little cooler during that ramp in period(poor mans power enrichment if I may), that would pretty much do it wouldn't it? Also, if you limit boost on the intake side through the BOV assuming that's possible, you might spool those compressors up a bit faster by bypassing restrictions in the engine, reducing resistance on the compressors and work load on the turbines. Then you could dial it in perfect ramping in exactly how you need it. Like I said, I'm new to forced induction on gassers so by all means school me if I'm off in left field. Again awesome video.

  • @bobqzzi
    @bobqzzi 4 года назад +2

    When I used to do turbo imports, I would generally set the torque at what I figured the internals and drivetrain could take. Once it was on the gate, I would adjust boost to keep the torque at say 300 lb/ft

    • @gordocarbo
      @gordocarbo 3 месяца назад

      same way i built my Gen 1 camino. Trans rated at 450 so didnt want more than 450-500tq. Holds it perfectly, like a giant 2 stroke motorcycle that dont break

  • @matthewritchie3595
    @matthewritchie3595 4 года назад +8

    Love your videos. I have a question I wanna build something that can be daily driven and not have a ton of lag. 4500rpm looks like when boost comes on I'm looking more for 3000rpm range to make it more driver friendly. Is it possible to test it on littler smaller turbos and still make 1200 or more HP for good low grunt then crank the boost and race. Also interested in MPG effects and longevity keep up good works man these videos I live for.

  • @michaellecount5146
    @michaellecount5146 4 года назад +1

    I have learned so much from your videos! Thank you for sharing!

  • @shannonsisk
    @shannonsisk 4 года назад +22

    I think it might be gear changes that are the hardest on the stock bottom ends. Spinning to 7k making 1k hp and then BAM shift gears and draaaags the motor down in rpm. That’ll make some cylinder pressure

    • @Baard2000
      @Baard2000 4 года назад +3

      Thats the difference in building an engine for drag race , road race , tractor pull etc...

  • @fitzeesfabrications
    @fitzeesfabrications 4 года назад +2

    I been researching low torque longer life on stock LS combos. Maybe this is why the smaller 4.8 , 5.3 can make so much power the torque numbers are not as great. Very informative video. I wonder if you did the same test on another gen 3 with what you know could you get more out of it?

    • @needadate
      @needadate 4 года назад +2

      They make less torque because of less stroke. The rods break at the same force, so you'd grenade a 4.8 at a lower torque number...

    • @fitzeesfabrications
      @fitzeesfabrications 4 года назад +1

      @@needadate my understand that a short stroke motor has less strain on the rods then a long stroke engine so where by you could rev it higher to reach those same toque numbers and by doing so making more hp then the long rod at a lower rpm?

    • @needadate
      @needadate 4 года назад +2

      More stroke means more (average) piston speed and thus more force at a given RPM. Rod/stroke ratio also factors in by affecting the acceleration curve.
      That has approximately nothing to do with why these rods broke, though. They were simply overloaded during the combustion cycle.
      An Otto motor makes power by directing the pressure from the combustion through the piston, making force (pressure x area) and transferring this force via the connecting rod to the crankshaft, making torque (force x lever). Torque is then multiplied with RPM to make power - more RPM = more power.
      Through the gearbox to the driven wheels, power is then broken down to torque and finally a force against the pavement: a given (horse)power number equals the exact same torque and force at any given vehicle speed, regardless of engine RPM.
      Combustion pressure has the same practical maximum regardless of stroke and if you double the stroke in a given motor, you will get double the torque and double the power at a given RPM. In no way would you ever get more torque from a shorter stroke with the other components the same. You will have the torque _peak_ at a higher RPM because of the smaller displacement volume - more or less directly proportional to each other - but the torque _value_ will be lower and proportional to the stroke.

    • @richardholdener1727
      @richardholdener1727  4 года назад +2

      rev it higher=less torque

  • @MastersOfMask
    @MastersOfMask 4 года назад +11

    Can you make a video comparing non VVT and VVT GEN4 on boost. Both with the same amount of boost and rpm and with similar cams profiles.

    • @richardholdener1727
      @richardholdener1727  4 года назад +6

      VVT and Non VVT will have different cam profiles by design

    • @RussellTelker
      @RussellTelker 4 года назад

      I think the biggest difference would be power under the curve, VVT "should" be able to produce more torque earlier and maintain it out the end. That's all in the tuning, manipulating the cam timing to optimize it for that rpm.

    • @blk95gsrt
      @blk95gsrt 4 года назад

      If the cams were the same and both setups were optimized the peak hp and tq would be the same, but you could have power over a broader range with the vvt.

  • @rifleman7313
    @rifleman7313 3 года назад +2

    Great job analyzing the difference between gen 3 and gen 4 6.0L. I imagine that it would be more prevalent if it was a gen 3 5.3L and a gen 4 5.3L based 383 stroker. However I don't know.

  • @slysithejuicegy
    @slysithejuicegy 4 года назад +3

    To really push the gen 3 I think you need both strategies. Cam\head's\intake\turbo to shape the torque curve and boost management as a final safeguard. There is no point trying to make power up high if the combo is spent.
    Anyways this is all old news in the 4 cylinder world. They push boost right to the ragged edge of the rods, piston's and head gaskets. The tuner can window the block on command.

  • @AndyR1982
    @AndyR1982 4 года назад

    Love the videos. Something that personally made me like this specific video more was the fact that the Borg Warner you showed was cast at my company. I can tell by the CT foundry identifier after the 063G. And I'll go as far as to tell you it was molded and cast October 14, 2014.

  • @escuelaviejafarms
    @escuelaviejafarms 4 года назад +4

    I blew a block once. Grenadeed a 350 in a truck that I just bought on the I-5 freeway, heading to L.A. for the weekend. I smoked all 5 Lanes of rush hour traffic, LOL. No power adders needed, LOL!

    • @Stevesbe
      @Stevesbe 4 года назад +3

      I threw a rod on a 350 in my 260z and had it towed back to my nice gated community apt parking lot not knowing what had happened to it. Later that night a neighbor knocked on my door to tell me my car was hemorrhaging all over the parking lot . The water filled up the pan and pushed all the oil out of the hole in the block I didn't see.

    • @escuelaviejafarms
      @escuelaviejafarms 4 года назад +2

      @@Stevesbe I left all the oil in the engine from the fast lane, all the way to the side of the road to the right of the slow lane. I had to stand with both feet on the brakes to get the 3/4 ton 1972 Chevy to a safe stop. I jumped out and checked out the bottom of the engine, it was pissing oil all over. I eventually got it towed back to base and started working on it at the auto shop. Come to find out the #7 piston popped, literally left a hole the size of my fist in the lifter valley and a chunk of rod went south. I pulled a H.O. 305 out of a burnt up 80's Camaro, dropped it in and never could get it to run right. I didn't have the money to store it at the auto shop and fix it, so I handed them the title to pay for the bill. I miss that truck.

  • @ryancrisp6786
    @ryancrisp6786 3 года назад +1

    I don't think the engine failing and trying to find a way to fix it by limitimg it is the right thought process here. You have successfully found the limit of the stock rods. That's it. Don't go over this torque number. It's a definitive test and gives undeniable results. Now, the EXACT same parts (cam, heads, etc) on the gen4 would show the difference in the rods, which we know are the biggest difference in the engines. We want to see a 100% direct comparison on addition to the different combos.

  • @wakjob961
    @wakjob961 4 года назад +3

    CONGRATS ON 30K !

  • @alafrosty
    @alafrosty 3 года назад +1

    I think that your assessment that the peak torque broke the rods is completely evidence-based and, thus, a really good one.
    Boost pressure control: Limit torque on the motors that use these rods to ~1250 ft-lbs. Keep boost at full until at around 4600 rpm and over the next 100 rpm, gradually start losing a bit of the boost pressure so that the torque peaks at ~1250 at 4700 rpm. From that rpm and up, via experimentation with boost, figure out how much boost at each rpm is required to maintain 1250 ft-lbs up to your red-line. Yes, you could unsafely run it a bit higher than that, but allowing for production variation leaves less than 10% from a known failure point. That's a good enough safety margin rather than breaking expensive hardware. If you've got that much control over boost, you might see if you can select different turbochargers that would make more boost lower in the rpm range and then dump more over the rpm range where peak torque from supplied boost would exceed your 1250 ft-lbs "maximum safe torque loading."

  • @yuyaarai8207
    @yuyaarai8207 4 года назад +6

    I’d like to see the comparison between draw through turbo setup vs the blow through turbo setup. Also I’d be interested to see if draw through setup works just fine with EFI just like pre-turbine water/methanol injection but with gasoline or E85. I appreciate you and your videos.

    • @dalethomas9307
      @dalethomas9307 4 года назад +1

      Im my experience pre turbo water/meth injection is hell on the compressor blades. Think about how fast the compressor is spinning and the fact that it is ingesting liquid not a vapor. there is never enough inlet pipe in front of the the turbo to get the nozzle far enough away from the compressor for the liquid to totally atomize.

  • @markdonovan9247
    @markdonovan9247 2 года назад +2

    Another great video!

  • @kenhar1000
    @kenhar1000 4 года назад +9

    nuts to run that much boost on that combo. surprised the head gaskets held. #1 engine just broke a rod due to load. I've seen other LS lift heads off the gaskets with studs at those boost levels. in short there was nothing wrong with either engine just not created to do that much on stock parts, but did show what an LS can do!!!!!!!!!

    • @funnlivinit
      @funnlivinit 4 года назад +4

      Yes. The entire premise of the series is to find out how much power they can take. I guess he found out!

  • @RL-RL
    @RL-RL 4 года назад +11

    So if possible, always go with Gen4 rods. Got it!

    • @alafrosty
      @alafrosty 3 года назад

      Nope. The Gen-4 rods didn't exceed 1250 ft-lbs. You only know that the Gen-3 rods are known good for 1300+ foot-lbs and that the gen-4 rods are known-good for 1250+ ft-lbs. Without seeing a gen-4 drop a rod on a dyno run, I'd put my money on the gen-3 rods for strength. That said, the gen-4 6.0 rods were designed to be stronger. But how do they really work/fail at the limit?

  • @Tylerbfz
    @Tylerbfz 4 года назад +3

    I think with the different cam and different heads between the two it’s kinda of hard to say which is better. I’d like to see the test redone with all matching parts on both engines so we have a definitive answer

  • @jasonshawaga3413
    @jasonshawaga3413 4 года назад +5

    1:10. Fuel leaking a bit. Crazy power tho!

  • @austindoud273
    @austindoud273 4 года назад +11

    Didn't window the block go again

  • @16vg60mikey
    @16vg60mikey 4 года назад +3

    Excellent video! Making more torque and at a lower RPM is a sure way to test those rods. Wonder how far you could push the earlier motor with a progressive boost curve to keep torque in check.

  • @laborer4321
    @laborer4321 4 года назад +4

    Great work!!! Definitely was the tq that that pushed the gen3 over the edge. What s475 were you using on the gen3? Either run the s475 but with a bigger turbine wheel to slow down some of the boost or run a bigger cam to soften the midrange tq. Also was it me or was there fuel leaking on the gen3 driver side rail?
    I have a gen3 4.great with a t4 s475 (7575) with a jfr 212/212 that I daily. It's been my favorite setup out of all my ls powered rides.

  • @douglaspierce316
    @douglaspierce316 4 года назад +1

    see the chart better with you smiling face moved. thank you. love the show. what a great job you do. [and have great job]

  • @TurboDog73TX
    @TurboDog73TX 4 года назад +3

    I definitely feel that the quicker torque rise of the Gen 3 version is what killed it.
    I'd really like to see any or all the big bang tests done on M1..

  • @omegared8663
    @omegared8663 4 года назад

    I love your channel. no bs. Straight to the point.

  • @johnwehunt4305
    @johnwehunt4305 4 года назад +4

    L33 block with Gen IV rotating assembly. Cheap way to survive the carnage.

  • @littleherms3285
    @littleherms3285 4 года назад +1

    You can control the torque with ign. timing. Very fast and effective. Boost is more difficult to manipulate effectively on the fly. Yes you can dial in a boost curve with today's electronics but in the end, the light off timing determines peak cyl. pressure.

  • @Eidrian111
    @Eidrian111 4 года назад +3

    Damn those gen 3 are awesome. Currently installing an lq9 with heads cams intake exhaust and procharger on a C5 Z06. I believe some diapers are in order.

  • @Mattvardaman
    @Mattvardaman 4 года назад

    Great content, this is probably the fourth time I’ve watched this one.

  • @leemer200
    @leemer200 4 года назад +16

    Lower ignition timing around peak torque and bring it back in with higher rpm. You have max cylinder pressure at peak torque so be gentle on stock rods. What was the ignition timing from 4,000 to 5,000 and what fuel?

    • @mechanictaft4848
      @mechanictaft4848 4 года назад +1

      Yup he doesnt know how to set a fuel curve and timming

    • @GreatLakesLogger
      @GreatLakesLogger 4 года назад +7

      @@mechanictaft4848 he knows what he's doing

    • @Aseutester
      @Aseutester 4 года назад +1

      @@mechanictaft4848 How many engines have you dyno metered?!

    • @dustinwolfe9591
      @dustinwolfe9591 4 года назад

      I think this is a really solid idea. I mean were just bench racing but thats a gem of a suggestion buried down here in the comments.

  • @2JZLS
    @2JZLS 4 года назад +2

    So excited to see what the Gen 4 can do with the 4-bar MAP sensor! I predict over 1750hp.

  • @ABetterLifeInc
    @ABetterLifeInc 4 года назад +8

    I think it was the higher torque at a lower RPM.

  • @exvils
    @exvils 4 года назад +1

    11:32 my guess is that rod did bent at peak torque and then with rpm it snaped
    again what i think high torque is what bend the rod and rpm what snaps the rod bolts

  • @realstakes101
    @realstakes101 4 года назад +3

    I would really like to see pump gas numbers for daily drivers. 93

  • @dgo9121
    @dgo9121 4 года назад +2

    You know shit is about to go down when he says "we're gonna get all CSI up in here"

  • @Nickyb801
    @Nickyb801 4 года назад +3

    Can you share some of the Holley tune files? Like sloppy mechanic tune cabinet. Nice to be able to reference timing on the boosted LS engines.

    • @richardholdener1727
      @richardholdener1727  4 года назад +6

      the tuning (timing table) is only WOT-so the file is useless for anything but engine dyno runs

  • @greazedlightninggarage6768
    @greazedlightninggarage6768 4 года назад +2

    👏😁 I learn something everytime I tune in!!!

  • @brandonpeery8209
    @brandonpeery8209 4 года назад +7

    What timing was run between the two?

  • @S4Meow
    @S4Meow 3 года назад +1

    How to cure it? take notes from your recent upload on backpressure. Your change in heads probably did the biggest change but maybe other things too. A bigger exhaust housing could help on the turbos too.

  • @Hillside-Hotrods
    @Hillside-Hotrods 4 года назад +5

    How about a video on hp vs fuel consumption, turbos vs Na levels of hp vs fuel consumption.
    I would love to have 800hp, but if I can’t put fuel in the tank and enjoy it what’s the point.
    Should I have 500hp Na, or 500 hp with turbo? Or go 600 turbo.
    Does twin turbo help as a street car?
    Thanks

    • @cc23001
      @cc23001 4 года назад

      DSFC is usually always be lower with a NA engine. FI needs extra fuel to keep the combustion cool and such. Can't dare run them lean either, which is actually a thing for NA engines in cruise

    • @Hillside-Hotrods
      @Hillside-Hotrods 4 года назад

      ChanMan405 , id knew that part. I would like to see numbers on how much fuel the engine will burn compared to hp.
      Is there a sweet spot for the ls engine? How much more fuel does it take to go from 400 to 500, or 500 to 600?

    • @Hillside-Hotrods
      @Hillside-Hotrods 4 года назад

      Fuel mileage can be rated in pound per hour.
      As well as mike per gallon.

    • @Hillside-Hotrods
      @Hillside-Hotrods 4 года назад

      Richard, , can you do some kind of calculation on how much fuel is going into a ls motor comparing size and forced induction.
      Does the ls have a sweet spot for horsepower and induction type.
      Does that keep the peanut gallery happy?

  • @anthonyrybczynski5420
    @anthonyrybczynski5420 3 года назад +1

    Hello again sir. I think there is a possibility that the boost ramped in too quickly for a stock rod. From 3500 to 4500 the hp jumps from like 560hp to 1180! Corky Bell author of Maximum Boost and owner of Bell intercoolers also states that acceleration of a rod is what causes rod failure.

  • @Amsinckster
    @Amsinckster 4 года назад +6

    To limit torque i would reduce timing.

  • @Levibetz
    @Levibetz 4 года назад +2

    Interesting stuff! I agree with bleeding the boost in. Get the engine to rev harder, it looks like the torque curve isn't dropping off too hard. If you can make more power between say 5500 and 7500, that's a win for a race car, that's where it'd be during a pass.

  • @malinus3023
    @malinus3023 4 года назад +3

    Could you run the intake, cam, and heads from your Gen 3 test on the Gen 4 block and see if that combination produces similar numbers in similar spots on the Gen 4 as it did with the Gen 3?

    • @malinus3023
      @malinus3023 3 года назад

      @Probus I personally wouldn’t worry about 600-700hp with a Gen 4 motor, detonation is the killer of most turbo engines, low boost and conservative timing and healthy amount of fuel and it’ll run forever

  • @earlhopkins3745
    @earlhopkins3745 5 месяцев назад +2

    Hey Rich, Any plans off testing the Big Bang 6.0 with the 4 bar map sensor. If you need one let me know. I have a couple from GM that I will not be using.

  • @Blood04
    @Blood04 4 года назад +3

    i can't wait for that 4 bar run

  • @richdudecamaro
    @richdudecamaro 4 года назад

    Can't wait to see you run the gen4 again!!!! Been waiting on this for a while now 🥰

  • @mightyfinejonboy
    @mightyfinejonboy 4 года назад +25

    Is there a Dog sleeping in this video?

    • @richardholdener1727
      @richardholdener1727  4 года назад +15

      yes-two Goldens

    • @jdcarguy1242
      @jdcarguy1242 4 года назад

      Funny.

    • @revolutionzerox
      @revolutionzerox 4 года назад +3

      I heard this and looked down at my old pup thinking it was him. Hes snoring. 11yr old pitbull boxer mix..

    • @somuchmore20
      @somuchmore20 4 года назад +2

      @@richardholdener1727 the Gen 4 also use sniper intake which looks to have shorter runners that would lower torque as well maybe if gen 3 had that intake and bigger cc intake runners would have lived. What u think

    • @nellyfarnsworth7381
      @nellyfarnsworth7381 4 года назад +1

      @@richardholdener1727
      The old saying
      Let sleeping dogs lie.

  • @MunCompetition
    @MunCompetition 4 года назад +1

    twin turbo cam made it softer in mid range and it makes more power and spins about 1000rpm higher. Looks like it has even power on top at least 1500rpm. Maybe just bigger turbos so it comes in later but makes more power on top. I also would like to see just big air to air intercooler vs air to water.

  • @Prenquall
    @Prenquall Год назад +9

    Soo what your saying is 27.9psi is the safe point? 😂

  • @Zach4046792
    @Zach4046792 2 года назад +1

    These are very impressive numbers on a stock block with top end and some twins. I would love to see this test done again on a fully built engine with more bar. All out run for power. 35lbs+

  • @davidleslie6207
    @davidleslie6207 4 года назад +11

    With all of this CRAZY HP and Torque, you need to test transmissions for there ability to hold this power.

    • @SweatyFatGuy
      @SweatyFatGuy 4 года назад +1

      Ally a need is a Saginaw 4 gear to hold that power, because they hold up to a basic chevy crate 350. ;) By Saginaw 4 speed I mean Lenco or Liberty manual, or a built with billet everywhere automatic.

    • @ronnieboucherthecrystalcraftsm
      @ronnieboucherthecrystalcraftsm 4 года назад +3

      @@SweatyFatGuy your dreaming with the saginaw = m22 muncie always out did them = i sold many spare parts cluster gears and main shafts for saginaw boxes - m22 only bearings and seals ! so your WRONG !

    • @SweatyFatGuy
      @SweatyFatGuy 4 года назад +3

      @@ronnieboucherthecrystalcraftsm Ya didn't read everything I said.. lol. I deliberately picked the least durable 4 gear offered behind V8s, the Sag is only marginally stronger than the T5. Ya know, an M22 is going to die behind 1300ftlbs if it ever hooks.
      I build transmissions, so I am quite aware of what will handle what power, and what it takes to make a Th400 live up there.
      If you happened to have read all of this comment, you will notice in the previous one I said by Saginaw I meant Lenco or something equally stout.

    • @viciousrap700
      @viciousrap700 4 года назад

      Thump Er I quite enjoyed the sarcasm in the comment lol

    • @SweatyFatGuy
      @SweatyFatGuy 4 года назад +1

      @@viciousrap700 Why thank you, I will be her all week, try the veal and tip your waitstaff.

  • @frotobaggins7169
    @frotobaggins7169 3 года назад +1

    it seems like the piston let go and took out the rod or vice versa. It would be interesting to see what just forged pistons and forged rods would take.

  • @YZFoFittie
    @YZFoFittie 4 года назад +13

    The 'ol lady is gonna be pissed when she finds out you recorded her snoring!

    • @richardholdener1727
      @richardholdener1727  4 года назад +6

      that's the male Golden

    • @BOOSTJUNKY
      @BOOSTJUNKY 4 года назад +1

      i thought i was hearing it in my head haha so came to the comments

    • @YZFoFittie
      @YZFoFittie 4 года назад

      @@richardholdener1727 yeah, suuure buddy... =)

  • @BLKMGK4
    @BLKMGK4 4 года назад

    Own a 911 turbo, we have shit rods and they bend with big torque and the trans hates it too. We dork the timing in the midrange to lower torque and run lower boost and then once torque peak has passed we ramp in the ignition and throw boost at it for a top end charge. Still runs great in the mid but as the RPMs climb it takes off - worth it for sure!

  • @funfun8095
    @funfun8095 4 года назад +4

    HANDS Holdener! 👐👍

  • @scottvadon2095
    @scottvadon2095 4 года назад +2

    I L😍❤E this stuff !!! If(when?) I win the lottery I will built my own dyno cell and do this with mostly pushrod 5.0 HOs and some other crazy things I have rattling around in my head.

    • @richardholdener1727
      @richardholdener1727  4 года назад +1

      I've done lots of 5.0L-still have my 1988 5.0L LX bought back in Nov 1987

    • @scottvadon2095
      @scottvadon2095 4 года назад +1

      I bought a 1989 LX hatch new in February '89 ... wish I still had it. Been wanting another Fox. My current project is a 1978 Mustang II with a "Budget"(?😛) twin turbo 5.0HO

  • @boostnhoe
    @boostnhoe 4 года назад +3

    What ring gap do you run??? Love these videos.
    Ahmad

  • @2muchspl
    @2muchspl 4 года назад +2

    This was a great test!!! I think you're on to something with trying to get the boost curves identical. That 100+ ft lb of torque gap from 3500-5500 on the peak overlays was serious. Thank you for the max PSI test for us mortals,lol

  • @jord9308
    @jord9308 4 года назад +3

    Pull timing at peak torque and use E85?

  • @ktmr8
    @ktmr8 4 года назад +2

    Now while these tests are great to watch and really help with understanding the limitations of the factory parts and pieces; there is no way I’d run that much power without forged internals!... and as for turning the boost down; well that’s not going to happen so I’m going to put parts in my motor that will keep it alive and leave all the guys who boast “it’s all factory” do the mop and broom work!

    • @andyharman3022
      @andyharman3022 4 года назад

      "and leave all the guys who boast 'it's all factory' do the mop and broom work". Now that's funny, right there, I hope to tell you!