223 Sizing Die Tests
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- Опубликовано: 23 окт 2021
- Testing three sizing dies and two expanding mandrels in .223 Remington. The test includes Lee, Redding, and Mighty Armory dies along with expanding mandrels from 21st Century and K&M.
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Развлечения
“Lee appreciation moment.” I’ll second that…
I bought a bunch of cheap lee kit to get me started. Years later and I haven’t gotten around to buying anything better. I only load hunting ammo and they just keep on doing the job for me.
@@Alan.livingston Their stuff just works. The warranty and customer service is second to none as well. I have great confidence in the Lee products. I think people tend to over think hand loading when it comes to dies and equipment. I’ve made impacts on targets at 1 mile with my ammo loaded with a Lee press and dies. That’s good enough for me..
Lee is not expensive but ingenuis, their resizer (FL and also collet dies) are made to produce low runout, their FL have an expander which is in "high position" in the die and when it work in the collet the case body is still in the die, help to produce low runout. I have and I use also LE Wilson bushings dies, Redding type S(FL and neck dies), ... but I love my Lee resizer, they work great.
My first 7.62x54Rmm was a Lee die. I like it cause of how simple it is too use but I bent the decapping pin. I've done that twice with lee dies, I figured I had bottomed out the die but it also struggled to decap casings at least in a rockchucker press.
Edit: after that happened I went with RCBS, aside from annoying looking shoulder dents from RCBS case lube it works great
I love my Lee dies. I think Lee products are responsible for bringing more people into this hobby than any other company out there.
They are generally the most intelligently designed.
I own Lee dies and I am very happy with them.
I think your barrel got to hot 10 shots that fast is not accurate reading. The barrel moves when that hit. So not a good test for dies. Stop about lee your a lee man. We get it
Let’s not forget about Lee’s excellent customer service as well.
Amen.. send in a die get it back fixed or new.. Put it to the test a few times. No BS...
Not my experience. I had something that was supposed to have a machined hex bit in it so that an electric drill could accept it. It was only a hex on one half and seemed to not be machined at all on the other half. They made me pay shipping to get a replacement on the factory defect. I wasn’t too happy and am now very reluctant to get lee products
Lee can produce sub moa ammo, enough said.
All day everyday..!
Lee has been making reloading equipment for a long time. They may be the least expensive, but they have learned how to do it at least acceptably for many people.
I agree. You're not making very precise match rounds, but you can still make some very good performing rounds. And churn out some very decent plinking rounds. Which is a really good thing. The cheapest equipment does not produce bad results. For once. lol
Parents bought me a complete RCBS reloading set with extra dies when I turned 12 for $25 at a yard sale (1968).
Still have it, then bought a complete Lee set for a $100-ish back in 1998 so I didn't have to change out the dies when running 9mm, 45 LC or 303 British.
Having two presses is close enough to having a "progressive" setup.
@@riccochet704 My Lee stuff produces more precise ammo than almost any off the shelf "match" box ammo for WAY less cost. I find it hard to complain.
you would have to be benchresting a custom rifle to ever come close to exceeding the accuracy you can achieve with Lee dies.
LEE makes Great stuff, I've used some high dollar equipment and I come back to LEE constantly. Very high value reloading tools.
Same, I have had fantastic results out of my Lee dies I have others and keep going back to the Lee's
Hell, yes! LEE has earned an appreciation moment. They have stood by their values of bringing decent quality to market at a reasonable price for the common man.
They make reloading accessible to MANY more that see the entry to the hobby as price-prohibitive.
Thanks so much for a nice video to go to bed to (I rewatch all the time as wind down videos) and fantastic shooting as always, good sir! Hope to buy you a drink some day.
You should add the Lee Collet Die to the comps. I use it for all my calibers, amazing tool. Lee 223 Remington Collet Die Set includes a Collet Die that uses a collet to squeeze a mandrel creating a precisely aligned case neck while reducing run out,
Lee dies, robust, straight forward design and engineering that’s easily understood making them simple and intuitive to use with precise results. No gimmicks or trickery. Just an honest product at an honest price point with very little performance compromises. If point of impact performance is lacking, it ain’t the Lee dies.
Yep. I know several people that paid a lot more for their dies that can't get their ammo to shoot worth a damn. Your gun, your shooting ability, and your reloading techniques all make a lot more difference than your equipment.
Thank the good lord you are back. The best channel on RUclips
LMAO the best group with cheapest die
Lee is inexpensive and innovative. In forums there are always folks ready to dump on lee and insist you need to spend 3 to 5 times more for a green or red brand name on the box... I'm glad Lee did so well.
Makes me feel good about buying all Lee dies for my first 3 cartridges, .223, .357 mag, and 30-40 Krag. 9mm is next on the list.
I use mostly Lee stuff and have yet to be disappointed. Not saying I don't have some other brands here and there, but I would have no problem replacing them with Lee stuff if I had to.
@@OddBallPerformance I bought the Lee dies for my mosin and have brought my groups to 2" at 100yds with Speer Hot formed core bullets .311 150 gr but I am still testing
Lee are my go to dies for everything I load. Thanks for this comparison.
When setting up dies in my RCBS (before I ditched it for the Forster) I followed Dillon's advice and ran a sacrificial case up into the die body to set up sizing, and before lowering the ram, tighten the lock ring while everything was centered up.
I have spent a shameful amount of money experimenting with different brand dies and I learned many lessons along the way. One of those lessons was that the Lee FL sizing die is hard to beat at any price and has earned full membership to the Reloading Die Hall of Fame. I have found that each brand has at least one die or one feature that outshines its competitors in that respective area. Competition and the free market bring out the best in all of us.
When I entered into the hobby, I bought LEE single stage challenger reloading kit. Then I've exchanged it to Hornady Iron Press kit, but some time after I understood that it won't gave me anything extra for the extra price. So, now I'm back to LEE, and I love it.
One of the purposes of the mandrel dies is cases are more rigid when pushing down on them, Vs pulling up through them. Supposed to allow for a more consistent shoulder bump.
Been using Lee dies since 2010 and never been anything but impressed with how well they load.
Excellent video by the way sir. 👍🏻
I just did something similar with my new Semi-Custom 7x57, although I just showcased the groups and prints on paper and didn't delve into the run-out numbers. I can share that my redding die set had the worst run-out, but ended up shooting one of the better groups. Conversely, my Lee die set had average run-out, but shot the overall worst group, though not by much --- however, it should be noted that my Lee expander ball had only 0.001" of neck tension, unless the 0.002" that the rest had, and that is enough to make a difference.
This was a great video, I love ones like this.
Lee die set are the right price, and they work. I use them for both rifle and pistol, Lee reloading manual has the most load of all the reloading manuals.
I am only 8 minutes into this video and I can tell that this one is going to be epic for this reloading nerd. I may have to go buy some new expander mandrels or possibly some new dies after this one. Thanks Johnny. Carry on. Carry on.
There’s a theory about bullets “going to sleep” after about 100 or 200 yards. The basic is that the bullet is still moving around a fair amount at 100 yards and some results can’t really be observed at that range. Try shooting at 200 yards and see what you get. Also, shoot the ammo according to the runout, ie 10 rounds of 0 thousandths, 10 rounds of 1 thousandth, etc.
Lastly, IMO anything under about 3 thousandths of runout will be corrected by most rifle barrels; the bullets are dealing with a lot of pressure and tend to have weird harmonics and movements inside the barrel, enough that 1 or 2 thousandths will not make a difference. I think F-Class John or Mopar Man have done a similar test… maybe it was you I’m remembering… 🤷♂️
I always find myself rooting for the underdog… with that said, letting the brass dictate the path always seems like the best idea for center. A little give in the die, a little give in the shell plate. I’m not sure we can create better alignment on our own. Just my Philosophy. For example, sometimes I see my Turret on my press move ever so slightly when I run my case into the die. I have always seen this as a good thing? IDK. Always a pleasure Johnny! 👍
So ive started down this path as well. My best concentricity comes with lee decapping, annealing, hornady FL size body with innards out, sinclair mandrel, and then a forster bench rest seating die. I get about 0.001 of runnout.
Lee dies are an incredible value, and the company has top notch customer service. I don't remember which part or even which caliber, but at one point in the last year, I had a part break in a Lee die. So I went to their website and searched for it, and when I saw the prices, I was astonished. The part was like 85 cents and it was in stock, so I searched the price list and bought a bunch of spare parts (may have been decapping pin or expander that broke). When I got the confirmation email, somebody in Customer Service wrote a note personally, saying they assumed I was having breakage issues with my dies since I was ordering multiples of so many small parts, so they went ahead and added an extra of every part that I ordered multiples of - for FREE - now that's Customer Service!
I do have a small criticism of this test though. The Redding should get a disclaimer or at least an asterisk added. Every other die was given less of a shoulder bump than the Redding, and as we all know, when you resize, that brass goes somewhere. I don't know many loaders who would not make an adjustment at 5 thousandths shoulder bump, when they are targeting 2-3 thousandths. Come on Johnny, keep it fair across the board.
Thanks so much. You made my first .223 loading project, mk 262 mod 1, fun and Really helped a newbie reloader like me feel safe, your first few shots of your own reloads can feel a bit hairy. That was a little over a year ago. I use a RCBS Small Base Sizer in .223 (p/n 11131) it has a carbide neck expander and I can't recommend it enough. Got a Redding Competition bullet seating die (p/n 55111) now and am going for long range. From what I have been told the runout becomes an issue. When your going way past 100 yards, I'll see soon. Thanks again, now the other people in my life know who Johnny is, ha.
All my reloading equipment is Lee I’ve been completely satisfied with all the Lee products Absolutely the best value in reloading equipment. I’ve helped friends reload with more expensive bands but I haven’t found any brand that performs better .
I wish LEE would come up with a micrometer adjustment add on like Hornady has for its rifle dies. A micrometer makes it so much easier to get things just “right.”
Discussed this with Lee via email. They told me 'No can do, other guys patented." News to me. Hornady, RCBS, Redding & Forster sell 'em. I got a big whiff of NIH (Not Invented Here). Scored the FA Universal Seating Die for $57 as an Amazon return pre-pandemic & have been pleased with it after minor mods: Filed index marks on the lock ring & under the index mark on the body to make lining up numbers easier; lubed the adj threads with HBN oil making adj much easier. Load multiple calibers no issue. I do keep a dummy round for every cartridge / bullet I load. Makes setting bullet depth faster & easier.
adj.
@@larrymitchell3502 There is no way there is a valid patent on micrometer that would prevent them from doing it. People have been using them in various tools for 100+ years.
@@texpatriot8462 Yeah, I know. Their reply was, imo, clearly "If we didnt come up with it, we ain't making it." Hence my Not Invented Here remark. Rather have 'em say "We're busy makin' OUR stuff." Started with Lee & use a lotta their products. Also RCBS, Hornady, Redding, Franklin Arsenal & NOE. Whatever seems best for what I wanna do at a fair price.
The Lee 'dead length' seater stem is 18 tpi. About .005 -.007 is about the smallest change one can make. Not good enuf for Long Range (5-600 yds and up) imo - a change of .002 - .003 can shrink (or enlarge) groups.
The FA Universal Seater can be accurately set down to .002 ime. Little fiddly changing from one caliber to another but it works. Having a dummy cartg for most bullets I load in each caliber lets me quickly dial it in when changing from .223 to .265 to .308. Would buy it again fer sure.
I have a pdf with temple I made that can make your one Micrometer for lee seating die. I seen a couple years ago on youtube and I just kind of redone it and made a temple and pdf file. It works well if setup correctly.
@@texpatriot8462 More likely a Micrometer set up would simply add too much cost and raise the price too much for Lee's target market. Also would add complexity and support issues that a fixed die doesn't have. So pros and cons for both, and I can see a reason or two for Lee to not do it.
outstanding video. thank you! I would have loved for RCBS dies to be included here.
I just was able to load a few rounds after stopping for a while during a move. You're one of the guys on here that kept me sane while my hobby was on hold. Thanks for the great videos.
Hello out there in Kentucky. Mostly watch You on the big screen in My living room. Would like to give You a hearty THANKS for providing a great channel. Your dialog has helped Me to not only remember that which I forgot but also to learn about topics that I had not even thought about. It has been a resource for me that I will use and share. So thank You for persevering for everyone, love the content!
Like most of us I love accuracy, the quest for true flight has cost me a bundle. I've got more crap on my bench that sometimes I don't even remember, but Lee always has something I can count on. Sometimes keep it simple keep it basic. Good job Lee.
Ran into something in the last few weeks. I bought the Mighty Armory 223 FL Sizing Die, shipping and sales tax, $140+. Couple months ago the tapered piece of the mandrel snapped off in the threads, I bent the mandrel trying to remove it. Not only are they not warrantied they’re around $30 to
replace when they’re in
stock. After watching
your video I ordered the
Lee Ultimate Precision Die set, $64 and it’s a lifetime warranty. It takes more than shiny to make a great company. Thanks for the great video. (Ordered it on the 22nd, be here on the 26th)
Great video!!! Interesting data results from your shot groups. Well done.
I use a 21 Century .305 expander mandrel for my .308 and a .220 for my .223. I find I need a little more neck tension for semi-autos because of the violent action on the bcg slamming the round home. If you measure CBTO before and after a round is chambered. The bullet will move a couple of thous.
Lee is what I started with. All my best loads have been done with them.
The closer the freebore portion of the throat is to the bullet diameter the less runout matters. The freebore section will align the bullet with the rifling and bore. Prior to firing it is the bullet shank in the freebore that aligns the forward end of the cartridge, not the shoulder and case neck. If you had a Mauser style throat (no freebore) then runout would be more of an issue.
Lee is the honda civic of the reloading world...I have some regular lee dies that out perform some of my $300 die sets! It really makes me stop and think before I go straight to the expensive stuff...
Yes, I believe heat is an issue but this is great shooting!
Johnny is shooting a semi auto rifle, ten shot groups, and still shoots 3 out of 5 under one inch, with the other two only 1/10th of an inch over!
The average shooter couldn’t do that with 3 shot groups in a bolt action rifle!
Love your channel and all ways learn something new, even if it’s that I have a lot of catching up to do!
Living vicariously through JRB while I can’t get primers? You bet!
Well, there's definitely something physical going on as there's a significant point of impact shift to the left as well. My guess is either barrel heat or fouling being the cause. The fact that the second half is typically the culprit leads me to believe it's most likely the barrel heat. One way you can get around this is by shooting one shot from each test group after the other. This also accounts for changes in fouling.
My experience is I get vertical stringing when my bbl gets hot. Not saying yours is not but I thought I would share.
I saw the warning. Don't copy blindly. Man my White Oak barrel runs so much faster than jrb'd . At least down south anyway. I can't touch the charges he uses. But what a rad video and I'll have to take your word on this stuff because I don't use mine for benchrest. My .8" groups run perfectly for scratching steel out to 700 so I just shoot what I can make consistent but drama free all at the same time
I’m personally a Lee fan also. Easiest dies to use and I’ve never had a problem with them. Lee stuff is all pretty well made and easy to use.
Johnny - Thanks for all of these 223 videos. I am not as good a shot as you, but my results with Lee dies, H335 (25.0gr) and either Bob's bullets (55gr) or Hornady bullets (55gr) get me in the 1 inch to 1.25 inch MOA groupings. I always seem to mess up a shot or two, but man - I'm very happy with my results. Thanks again for ALL of your hard work!!! One last thing - Like you, as my 18 inch White Oak barrel heats up (15-20 rounds) the spread of shots does occur. I just like shooting so much, that letting the barrel cool down is a little trying...
Yes lee thank you for keeping redding and rcbs and hornady(ect) in line and great cheap products
Interesting point I learned from “winning in the wind”. Keith stated he was getting variances in his readings with the LabRadar chrono because is was wavering back and forth. This movement can cause increased sd/es differentials. The irregularity was reduced when he stiffened the base and connection to the head unit so it would not move as much, if not at all. Maybe this will help with consistency. The movement of the chrono also introduced shot placement/registration errors that did not match the target as accurately as he shot…he shoots very well in f-class.
Yeah Johnny, I've been using Lee gear for years & there's absolutely nothing wrong Lee equipment. No surprise to me dude.
Absolutely nothing wrong with that rifle either. Since they're 10 shot groups, it is what is with no bullshit added in. I'd have no problem calling that a solid 1 MOA rifle which is more than most can say with their 3 & 5 shot groups.
Great vid Johnny.
Lee is the greatest... Thanks for the video
If you want to cool your barrel faster,l more even, lock the bolt back and stand your rifle vertical
Heat is the killer. I use a chamber cooler between sets. Lowers the temp of the barrel considerably
I would suggest barrel heat is the problem IMO. Needing a lot longer to cool down , having said that LEE dies have always worked extremely well for me.
Stuck a case for the first time earlier today in my lee 204 die. Got it out before seeing this video doing what you just described haha
I just bought a Mighty armory 223 sizing die for a progressive press (wanted something comparable or maybe better vs Dillon) and now I'm looking for a good review and saw you had one. I was super happy for that, love you channel and have been a sub on my personal channel for awhile. Really like you videos, there's no one else that can talk through things and keep me entertained.
I've been afraid on small base as the 223 round has high sizing pressure and not a lot of base to hold.
I really like a Hornady bullet puller and a gauge pin for neck expanding, the gauge pins are cheap and you can really dial in the neck tension down to half a thousandth.
I make a great lanolin based spray lube if you want to try in the future, uses peg 75 (water soluble) Lanolin.
Impressive video. A ton of work I know went into it. Thanks for sharing
Found your channel a few days ago and subscribed. Enjoy your style. You make a grown, old man, like me smile!
I also use Lee dies and have been very satisfied.
About half way through the range test, I was wishing you had five more rounds from the Lee die you could shoot last to compare to the first ten. I was wondering about barrel fouling as well as heat.
Great video!
Very Interesting comparison!! I shoot .223 and use Lee dies. I've found that with my old Browning .223 Varmint w/BOSS-CR, my groups seem to expand as the barrel heats. I've got to play with the BOSS-CR a bit more, it does definitely affect my shooting....
I love Lee dies. They work great and half the price of some others. Haven't shot match since EAS. 1moa is good enough now.
I personally think you're spot on with the barrel heat/possible eye fatigue looking through the optic. Throwing shots because of heat won't show up on the chronograph. Try different neck tension sizes now and see if your group shrinks in size.
I've got the Mighty Armory decapper and that thing runs great. I have it on a cheap Lee press just for decapping, and it chews through anything. I don't have any dies from MA though, too rich for my needs, the $40 Lee set does well enough for as bad of a shot as I am.
I use lee for everything, except for 38/357. I’m always happy with lee performance. Great video!!
I've been reloading for years using all brands of dies and equipment and have come to the conclusion that Lee makes equipment that is on par with almost anybody's. Maybe 10% of shooters can benefit from more expensive "precision dies". The rest of us wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Buying based on color or price is a waste of money.
You hit the nail on the head. Dead center!
Great vid JRB.. Was just looking Mighty products.. Love my Lee products as well.
Lee has made some awesome stuff jrb over years think ur channel shows it. Some of those groups are pretty good.
Think shooter fatigue plays into it as well as barrel heat..
Was reloading 243win when watching this.
Good to hear people have had good luck with Lee dies. I have not, and was ready to buy new ones and start over. After cleaning the dies well, the full length die scared the brass BAD. Then the seating die, the bullet seating plug left a ring around the bullet.
I found powder choice in.223 making the most difference for accuracy. H335 was the worst and CFE .223 and IMR 3031 best with 55g and heavier. Some powder/ bullet combination would group 9 inches left, just nuts while my 55 VMax with IMR 3031 groups dead on well under 1moa
Slip2000 is a great product to cut oil. I use it on my guns and also on brass that I left the lanolin sit for too long and it got sticky. Dump them in my wet tumbler, add a few sprays of Slip2000, tumble for 10 to 15 minutes, then rinse. I haven't tried it yet by spraying on a rag and wiping it off the brass.
Lee die guy since the late 80s. Formerly only RCBS but I've since tried Redding, Hornady and Forster. Lee products are always functional, well designed and fairly priced. This is what companies were like in Old America. Perhaps after the collapse of the Evil Empires' phony currency, an even better version of America (and its companies) will be born.
I’ve been running the MA die followed by the 21st century Mandrel and didn’t know I had an internal donut in my cases until I got a Forester neck tension gauge!
I have Lee and Redding .223 die sets. I have never had a stuck case with the Lee but several on the Redding. I stick with the Lee. Not going for great groups but have been solid and consistent.
Glad to see a 38 min video.
Some very good info . Thank you for sharing .
Optimus, glass half full - Pessimist, glass half empty - Engineer, twice as much glass as you need.
Lee's approach puts the emphasis and costs on the critical areas and you end up with a very good cartridge as output.
Every time I add a cartridge I intend to load, if the "lee loader" kit is available I add that as well. Pure SHTF and frankly there is something earthy in assembling cartridges with a mallet & a dial caliper that a press and dies leaves lacking. If you have any rimmed cartridges, especially revolver loads start with them, not as useful with semi auto stuff.
I had a similar experience with 223 in my WOA upper. I've got a few different 223 sizing dies (Lee FL, Lee Collet, Forster FL, Redding Body). I saw no improvement splitting up operations. I saw negligible improvement using Forster over Lee. I do use a fancy micrometer seating die, but I see no reason to get anything other than a Lee FL sizer for 223. I think maybe WOA's 223 Wylde chamber just likes a Lee FL resize.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge and keep your videos coming please.
I am fairly new to reloading, only been doing it a couple years now. However, I discovered the Mighty Armory dies very early on and now I have many of them for pistol and rifle calibers. Honestly, my only "complaint" is that they don't yet have dies for everything under the sun. BUT I bought their dies even if I already had another manufacturer's die for the given caliber. They are absolutely expensive and absolutely worth it for me.
That said, I have Lee, Redding, and Hornady dies also. I have NOT found that any of them were poor. I recently bought Lee for 30-30 Winchester. Though they were cheaper than other brands they did awesome work. I user the Hornady micrometer seating die for 300 BO, 44 SPL, and 44 Mag. I use the Mighty Armory seating die for my 9mm and 45 ACP...
I am not competition shooting, so for my needs, they are all fine. For Mighty Armory, I love the decapping, resizing, and flaring dies... so I find I mix and match... i.e. decap, resize, and neck flare using Might Armory then bullet seat using Hornady or Lee, or etc...
the mighty Lee company comes on top again, a lot less money also.
Love Lee ultimate dies package. Good deal and great quality, accurate. Right choice. 👍
Another great video thanks Johnny
I have a 21st Century expander and I also have a K&M expander like yours with my neck turning kit. Thank you for the comparison and I’ll be very interested in any followup you might do on those.
I happen to run Wilson seater dies on a K&M arbor press - so I’d love to see how that compares to the Lee Seater and maybe the Forster seater.
Awesome video as always! Thank you
Oh My Gosh! I love this effing channel!!! Thanks Johnny!
Great video. Love the details and willingness to experiment. Been watching a bunch of videos on mandrels. I find it interesting how the Lee dies keep performing so well against the expensive dies. Have you compared the Lee collet neck sizing die with the other dies. Would be interesting to see how it performs against the other mandrel dies.
Incredible content. Thank you
I would suggast sizing without the expander in the die and expand the neck in a separate operation. Pushing the expander into the case seems to give better results than pulling it out from inside the case. I use Redding dies and it is easy to remove the decapping stem and replace it after sizing. In my limited tests the runout was less just checking the case runout using the push in method. It's a different method and maybe worth a try.
I think the first takeaway is - think about this the next time someone tells you Lee dies are junk. Sub-MOA in a semi-auto ain't hay - and this may well not be the most accurate powder charge / powder type combination. .5 MOA is probably doable. After that - not sure what you're chasing.
In the future - if you want to shoot a comparison like this - shoot the first order - then take an hour long break. Shoot a 5-shot warm-up group and wait 10 mins. Then shoot the string to evaluate again in -reverse- order of the first run-through.
EDIT (HUGE thank you for doing this at all, FWIW-great job).
Thankful for Lee too.
Enjoyed the video. Great content.
Hey JRB I found some full copper/brass bullets that has less engraving pressures, made by hammer bullets. The one I’m talking about is the line of bullets called absolute hammer. The website says due to the bullet construction the projectile stays more uniformed while traveling down the barrel. And since your getting less pressure it needs a faster powder and can achieve higher velocities than typical bullets designs. Check it out bud
I also had great luck with 110 Hammer Hunters on my 6.5CM. I used IMR4064 which is a bit fast for 6.5CM, and I had it running 3070fps with no pressure sign. They were accurate with great terminal performance on hogs
I think you'd be surprised how important consistent neck trimming is. As much 223 as you shoot, I'd consider a Giraud 3 way drill trimmer, and use it every firing!
Very nice video. I'm impressed with the Lee dies. 👍👍👍🏆🏆🏆🏆👍👍👍👍.
I absolutely saw it was the last five bullets in the groups that were opening them, even said I had to comment on it before your video points it out. Who built your upper? Did they bed/shim the barrel into the upper? If your upper isn't a thermal fit upper (which the AP Enhanced are not), there is enough room between the barrel extension and the upper barrel thread area that as heat is transferred into the aluminum of the upper it expands and allows for too much movement in between the two. Bedding the barrel or using steel sheet shim to take up that extra space drastically effects stability in that that area. It's the most crucial area to stay stable during thermal change. As long as the barrel extension/upper fit isn't drastically sloppy, you should be able to bed the extension with Locktite 620, clean off any residual, re-torque the barrel with Aeroshell 64 on the threads. Let it dry for a couple days and then retest. OR, buy an upper that will thermal fit the barrel extension; BCM, SOLGW, Zev, Mega, Triarc, any other Zev manufactured upper. They all need to be heated with a torch to get the barrel into the upper. Either of these will get rid of the potential your barrel is moving in the upper.
I've never heard of this thermal fit upper. That makes complete sense to me. I want to look into that process more with loctite my question to you is what if I wanted to remove the barrel later what would I do then? By the way thank you for posting this information. I've always used aero precision uppers so I thought that's how it was supposed to be. Thank you for this. Very interesting and eye opening for me anyways.
@@orangerider2827 you heat the upper up after disassembly and removing the barrel nut. 620 will get brittle and release. Thermal fit uppers you do the same. The aluminum expands and releases the barrel extension.
Using 609 works also. Ive even used blue LOCtite, which is more than ok. I also use a receiver lapping tool to ensure a perfect fit between the receiver to the barrel.
Forgot to mention the couple other things I do to help with consistency and accuracy. I “tune” gas tube for as little contact as possible with the gas key and I use enhanced bolt carriers, specifically the ones with enlarged rear portion to limit slop and reduce carrier tilt within upper. There’s a few different brands out there but I use a sharps rifle company Bcg in my main rifle and recently bought the cmc which is designed for short barrels and or suppressor use
Thank you both for the information and help!
I was always taught "crooked ammo shoots crooked." I was also taught that up to .003 runout is still straight, match grade ammo. Anything over .006 will invalidate your load development.
22.9 of AR comp is mind blowing to me ! I am at 22.1 and getting pierced primers! Don’t know what to make of it! Great videos! Keep up the good work!
Too much neck tension/crimp?
Appreciate the video. In the end I stay with my lee dies. I agree about the barrel warming. I bet any of the dies would work so close to not make much of a difference.
I wonder if outside neck turning would make a difference? Also, watching your videos really changed my mind on Lee products. I guess I have been a bit of a snob when it comes to selecting dies and other products. I see that really Lee produces some quality products, and I have purchased a few dies from them and I am impressed with what I have received. Thanks for the videos.
I’d like to see a follow up maybe getting better use of the K&M and trying the non-floating Redding. The more concentric rounds did better I think it showed in your targets. What I found to see bigger differences was shooting 200yrds. Using a arbor press with a Wilson seating die helped reduce runout further for me. Awesome video as always thank you.
10 is a small amount but MA actually had the smallest variation in runout, so small an consistent that I wouldn't be surprised if they all lean towards the same side when they come out of the press. A bit of lanolin on the shoulder of the taperd part and a rubber spring between the rod and the top plugged would fix it if I'm right. My theory is that the top plugge exerts more pressure on the side where the thread starts in the top plugg.
It can also be that your caseholder runs out of floating space due to a slight miss alignment between the dye holder and the ram, you could check that with some feeler gauges.
Wow 2 video's in a week! Johny must be being nice this week and its allmost 40 min what did we do to deserve this? what ever it was i hope we do it again
My accurate load with the Hornady 75 OTM without cannelure is 22.5Gr. AR Comp. R/P brass & R/P 7 1/2 or a Federal AR primer. Rainier arms Ultra Match 18" SPR Barrel . I also use the Mighty Armory 223 Die.
I predicted your outcome.
& was delighted to see it fulfilled.
There is nothing wrong with Lee dies. They are great dies.
They are always my first choice, if I can get them.
I have been loading for 42 years. Doesn’t make me an expert, just someone who has tried a lot of dies.