Thanks for the detailed look here! As you mention some people do, I started with the new black aluminum 21st Century die body with a window and two mandrels in black nitride, and paid around $100 for just those three pieces. I was going to go back to get some .001” under mandrels, then saw this full set on Pieters channel, and even with shipping from South Africa they were an incredible bargain for 13 pieces, die and mandrels. I almost ordered this exact set, but then saw they were offering the gold titanium nitride mandrel set for $100 more and placed that order. APW was out of stock and are making them up now. For what you get I think this is the best deal. One thing they noted on the order page, I’m running a co-ax so they said to note that and they would ship it with a narrower die body, as the standard one won’t fit that press. I’m hoping the narrower one will also fit a standard 7/8x14 press as well though. One thing, I anneal each time, so I’ve just been using a standard Redding FL sizing die with no bushing, then a mandrel. I guess I’m overworking the neck, but I’ve seen mixed results from others on concentricity sometimes when they use a bushing, and just don’t want to mess with buying a new bushing sizing die to save not moving the neck an extra .004” or so, but that’s something I might have to reconsider later if it becomes an issue, but annealing does help with case life. Thanks for the detailed look at these mandrels as I hadn’t seen them up close yet. 👍
Very well shown and explained. I am now a Subscriber! I started out with the Sinclair die and their assorted mandrels for neck turning and neck sizing. They are in HSS or TIN coated, some even in solid carbide which is super smooth but so hard and brittle and pricey. I then went to Wilsons expander die and mandrels which is nice, but lacks any oversize mandrels for each caliber. They only have 22, 6mm.6.5 and 30, 33 cal ifirc. I had looked at area 419 but the cost kept me away as I need 3 calibers and a couple in each caliber plus the die is quite costly. This APW seems even nicer quality and lower cost for all the mandrels I need plus I get a bunch of others I may need in the future. Very well presented. I was so confused when I first started down the path of the factory ball expander stems, then to mandrels with Sinclair and thier die. Then I learned about neck turning and caliber specific bushing dies and all the assorted bushings. Those dies and their price is pretty high, especially if you need multiple calibers as well. I eventually found Lees collet die and was amazed at how inexpensive and easy it was to size and perfectly set a specific caliber ID to the brass without stretching the case. It didnt allow for adjustable neck tension but for the crazy low cost it was incredible. This seems like the best of everything at a much more reasonable cost.
When you want to use an expander mandrel, is it necessary to first use a collet die? Can you simply FL size your brass and then run it through an expander mandrel for the intended neck tension?
No, that Lee collet die is just one way to set neck tension without using a bushing die or a mandrel. He was showing using a body die then the Lee collet die (which a lot of guys swear by) for the neck. I guess you could use the body die, then a mandrel to smooth the ID of the neck to remove any dings, etc., then the collet die, but I just follow your second scenario there, FL resize, no bushjng, then mandrel to set neck tension. It works the neck more by a few thousandths, but works fine for me, especially if you anneal your brass to give it a longer life.
In order for an expanding mandrel to work well, the brass should be annealed prior to any sizing action. While the APW set looks great, you should try one of the 21st Century mandrels that are Black Nitride coated mandrels. Just like butter! Unfortunately they aren't available in .001 or .002 increments. The Black Nitride coating is da bomb!
I can’t complain about the 21st century stuff either. That being said though I was pretty surprised with how much more I liked the APW set than my 21st Century, I don’t know if there’s any difference in end results but there’s definitely a difference in how much I enjoy using it. The APW mandrels and slightly more smooth than the 21st century mandrels but I’ve ran thousands of rounds over that 21st century one so it’s not quite a fair comparison. I also just noticed that APW just came out with a new version that has Ti Nitride coated mandrels, which is super appealing as it’s the only costed mandrels I know of that come in custom sizes
Was looking at this set but ended up getting the 21st century nitride mandrel and die. Using their dry molly lube for the mandrel and bullet seating. Super smooth
Sorry that I still don't see the need for the expander mandrel. I use a Redding bushing die and set my tension to .003 so why do I still need a mandrel if all I want is .003 tension. There must be more of a reason for using expander mandrel but I don't know what those reasons are.
Because removing the expander from your sizing die and running the mandrel perfectly straightens the neck from the inside, not compressing it from the outside, which is often a better mousetrap. Lots of people will use a bushing and then a mandrel, but I just FL resize without an expander ball using a standard sizing die then run a .002” mandrel through. Since I anneal each time it all works out and gives good concentricity. But if you’re getting reliable performance with your OD bushjng on the neck then go for it, and I don’t know that I’d mess with success.
I don’t think so, but I’m getting my APW set in a couple of weeks and will check and post here. FYI I have the new 21st Century black aluminum die body with a window, but it should be the same. I know the Sinclair mandrels generally fit the 21st Century body.
It is NOT neck tension…It is neck interference. is properly measured in units of force (pounds, for example), but is more often referenced by the size of the interference fit. ‘2thou neck tension ‘
What if one thousand or two thousand friction fit in your neck and isn't enough. That's where one or two thousand sets are not adequate. You have to experiment. And find out what release point is your rifle the most accurate. It might be nine thousand smaller than diameter of course. I like everything you showed us, I do not disagree with anything that you said. But when ordering a general set, it might not be enough. Complete assortment of mandrels for your rifle.
Here are the differences as they appear to me. 21st Century offers their mandrels to the nearest .0005 and offers a wide spread of sizes in each caliber. APW offers their mandrels in two sizes for each caliber and only to the nearest .001. The cutout window in the 21st Century is nice for adjustment. The biggest difference to me is that 21st Century products are advertised as made in the United States of America. APW are not.
Now, now, you know the youtube shooting community is 2 large Lattes away from being SF Liberals. Hell, you even have "poets". Only difference is they shoot. You must use unique ways to communicate so you look the sophisticated part while you twirl your brandy snifter and talk about $1400 presses and $450 dies.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
Leave a comment as an upstanding decent human being who loves the second amendment. 😉
tell us how you really feel …😂
I exercised that amendment today actually
@@prnjared yeah buddy!
@@MrLongrange260 LOL i know...i just can't stand negativity these days. don't need the drama.
I love the 2nd but I'm not a upstanding decent human being so I guess I won't comment.🤣
Thanks for the detailed look here! As you mention some people do, I started with the new black aluminum 21st Century die body with a window and two mandrels in black nitride, and paid around $100 for just those three pieces. I was going to go back to get some .001” under mandrels, then saw this full set on Pieters channel, and even with shipping from South Africa they were an incredible bargain for 13 pieces, die and mandrels.
I almost ordered this exact set, but then saw they were offering the gold titanium nitride mandrel set for $100 more and placed that order. APW was out of stock and are making them up now.
For what you get I think this is the best deal. One thing they noted on the order page, I’m running a co-ax so they said to note that and they would ship it with a narrower die body, as the standard one won’t fit that press. I’m hoping the narrower one will also fit a standard 7/8x14 press as well though.
One thing, I anneal each time, so I’ve just been using a standard Redding FL sizing die with no bushing, then a mandrel. I guess I’m overworking the neck, but I’ve seen mixed results from others on concentricity sometimes when they use a bushing, and just don’t want to mess with buying a new bushing sizing die to save not moving the neck an extra .004” or so, but that’s something I might have to reconsider later if it becomes an issue, but annealing does help with case life.
Thanks for the detailed look at these mandrels as I hadn’t seen them up close yet. 👍
appreciate the comment. thanks for watching.
Very well shown and explained. I am now a Subscriber! I started out with the Sinclair die and their assorted mandrels for neck turning and neck sizing. They are in HSS or TIN coated, some even in solid carbide which is super smooth but so hard and brittle and pricey. I then went to Wilsons expander die and mandrels which is nice, but lacks any oversize mandrels for each caliber. They only have 22, 6mm.6.5 and 30, 33 cal ifirc. I had looked at area 419 but the cost kept me away as I need 3 calibers and a couple in each caliber plus the die is quite costly. This APW seems even nicer quality and lower cost for all the mandrels I need plus I get a bunch of others I may need in the future. Very well presented. I was so confused when I first started down the path of the factory ball expander stems, then to mandrels with Sinclair and thier die. Then I learned about neck turning and caliber specific bushing dies and all the assorted bushings. Those dies and their price is pretty high, especially if you need multiple calibers as well. I eventually found Lees collet die and was amazed at how inexpensive and easy it was to size and perfectly set a specific caliber ID to the brass without stretching the case. It didnt allow for adjustable neck tension but for the crazy low cost it was incredible. This seems like the best of everything at a much more reasonable cost.
Excellent. Thanks for subscribing, and thanks for the comments.
When you want to use an expander mandrel, is it necessary to first use a collet die?
Can you simply FL size your brass and then run it through an expander mandrel for the intended neck tension?
No, that Lee collet die is just one way to set neck tension without using a bushing die or a mandrel. He was showing using a body die then the Lee collet die (which a lot of guys swear by) for the neck. I guess you could use the body die, then a mandrel to smooth the ID of the neck to remove any dings, etc., then the collet die, but I just follow your second scenario there, FL resize, no bushjng, then mandrel to set neck tension. It works the neck more by a few thousandths, but works fine for me, especially if you anneal your brass to give it a longer life.
In order for an expanding mandrel to work well, the brass should be annealed prior to any sizing action. While the APW set looks great, you should try one of the 21st Century mandrels that are Black Nitride coated mandrels. Just like butter! Unfortunately they aren't available in .001 or .002 increments. The Black Nitride coating is da bomb!
I think anyone interested in precision should be annealing so I can’t argue with that. Thanks for the feedback and the comment!
I got the black nitride turning mandrels from 21st Century that are .002 under last year in .223 and .308, so they do have that size in that coating.
Maybe I missed it but the Eric Cortina expander was mentioned in the beginning but I didn’t see where it was covered?
It was not shown. Jared discussed it later in the vid.
Is there a manderel for 25-06 in the APW ?
I’ve got the 21st century stuff with no complaints, but I’m looking at scooping up an APW to try it out.
Cool. Thanks for watching.
I can’t complain about the 21st century stuff either. That being said though I was pretty surprised with how much more I liked the APW set than my 21st Century, I don’t know if there’s any difference in end results but there’s definitely a difference in how much I enjoy using it. The APW mandrels and slightly more smooth than the 21st century mandrels but I’ve ran thousands of rounds over that 21st century one so it’s not quite a fair comparison. I also just noticed that APW just came out with a new version that has Ti Nitride coated mandrels, which is super appealing as it’s the only costed mandrels I know of that come in custom sizes
Was looking at this set but ended up getting the 21st century nitride mandrel and die. Using their dry molly lube for the mandrel and bullet seating. Super smooth
that nitrided stuff is very smooth. definitely nice.
That’s gonna serve you well for many years! I noticed that APW just came out with a Ti Nitride set within the past week or so
Sorry that I still don't see the need for the expander mandrel. I use a Redding bushing die and set my tension to .003 so why do I still need a mandrel if all I want is .003 tension. There must be more of a reason for using expander mandrel but I don't know what those reasons are.
If you're happy with your setup, there's no need to change what you're doing. Thanks for watching.
Because removing the expander from your sizing die and running the mandrel perfectly straightens the neck from the inside, not compressing it from the outside, which is often a better mousetrap. Lots of people will use a bushing and then a mandrel, but I just FL resize without an expander ball using a standard sizing die then run a .002” mandrel through. Since I anneal each time it all works out and gives good concentricity. But if you’re getting reliable performance with your OD bushjng on the neck then go for it, and I don’t know that I’d mess with success.
i’ve actually damaged brain cells watching this ..
Thanks for staying positive
Most of this channels videos are informative, hence the reason i’ve subscribed…this one was disappointing …enough said on my part
@@MrLongrange260 ok thx. You are indeed entitled to your opinion. Appreciate the feedback.
Hopefully I’ll win ya on the next one!Toss out a topic your interested in hearing about and I’ll see if I can make something on it!
@@MrLongrange260 can you give me more detail? What were you expecting versus what you feel like you got?
Can you use the APW mandrels in 21st body ?
I don’t think so, but I’m getting my APW set in a couple of weeks and will check and post here. FYI I have the new 21st Century black aluminum die body with a window, but it should be the same. I know the Sinclair mandrels generally fit the 21st Century body.
It is NOT neck tension…It is neck interference. is properly measured in units of force (pounds, for example), but is more often referenced by the size of the interference fit.
‘2thou neck tension ‘
Ok, thanks for watching.
Drop me a comment if y’all have questions or have any topics (reloading specific) you want me to make videos on for the channel
Does not work for my 6ppc .
bummer. thx for watching.
Now let's see a double blind test of neck tension on group sizes.
What are you wanting compared? Each method mentioned in the video? Or just the 21st Century mandrel vs the APW mandrel?
What if one thousand or two thousand friction fit in your neck and isn't
enough. That's where one or two thousand sets are not adequate. You have to experiment. And find out what release point is your rifle the most accurate. It might be nine thousand smaller than diameter of course. I like everything you showed us, I do not disagree with anything that you said. But when ordering a general set, it might not be enough. Complete assortment of mandrels for your rifle.
Cool. Thanks.
Here are the differences as they appear to me.
21st Century offers their mandrels to the nearest .0005 and offers a wide spread of sizes in each caliber.
APW offers their mandrels in two sizes for each caliber and only to the nearest .001.
The cutout window in the 21st Century is nice for adjustment.
The biggest difference to me is that 21st Century products are advertised as made in the United States of America.
APW are not.
thanks for watching and commenting
You need to add in that you are shilling this product out and badly explaining on what it does too.
Honestly did you even watch the video? How exactly does this fit the definition of being a shill?
Does it do something besides expand the neck of the case?
Would have been nice if you spent 3 minutes in the 23 minute video to talk about setup...
Col-let die. Don’t hear it pronounced that way often. kol-it is usually how you’ll hear it.
Now, now, you know the youtube shooting community is 2 large Lattes away from being SF Liberals. Hell, you even have "poets". Only difference is they shoot.
You must use unique ways to communicate so you look the sophisticated part while you twirl your brandy snifter and talk about $1400 presses and $450 dies.
Must be one of those potato/potawto or washer/warsher situations
Also not ruling out a mispronunciation on my part either 😂
Neck tension is as important as the bullet you are using . The two top important reloading influences .
I for one, agree with you.
I think the more someone shoots the more they realize it too, thanks for the comment!
You lost me. The first three minutes were a total waste. You take too much time talking about nothing for tooooo long. Farewell- lol
patience is a virtue my friend