I feel like in this episode Homberto is underestimating people’s ability to dehumanize others in their mind. Like it isn’t a lack of empathy if you tell yourself “those people” are subhuman. It has led otherwise functional people to do terrible things.
I am incredibly attracted to my current bf even though he's no Chad. He is confident but humble, and I'm so happy to be with him. He doesn't guilt me to do anything I don't want to, and certainly doesn't think I owe him anything. Guys don't have to be "good looking" to find partners~ but nobody wants to be with someone with weird vibes
So my take from this discussion is that we need to be careful not to use dehumanizing language when discussing these people. They are still a part of a human experience, even if it is not our human experience. Enlightening.
For me" involuntary" celibacy hasn't let me down paths of misogyny. When my loneliness and depression we're the worst I turn to drugs and alcohol. I went from partying once a month to every week to twice a week, however I would stay sober during the week to go to school and work. Eventually the loneliness triggered seeing attractive girls and couple's in public led me to opiate abuse. After a few weeks I started to notice signs of addiction and had planned to overdose on heroin and Valium. My parents luckily had noticed by then and made me get treatment, and I have been off opiates since August of 2016 . Since then I had sex and got in a few relationships, but now that I'm single I still feel those feelings. The feelings of intrinsic inadequacy. It makes me miss the warm kiss that you get from opiates. My reasoning for use was "Well, if love and sex are never gonna happen I might as well find something that can mimic the feeling of being loved and desired sexuality." It feels just as true at times now as it did back then, even though I don't act on it.
Is being an incel ONLY about sex? Or is it about having an all encompassing relationship (having a girlfriend/having a wife...). It sounds like the incel community is objectifying relationships... The desperation to find someone to have sex with or have a relationship with will undoubtedly seem inauthentic to the person you're pursuing... It seems like it becomes an obsession in a very toxic way and they're too busy obsessing over their sex-life, or lack thereof, to actually live life and make genuine connections...
A lot of times it seems like they want a trophy girlfriend: the prize that they can point to in order to prove they are winners (or at least aren't losers)
I found this dialog really interesting. If I understand it correctly a lot of value and (self) worth is being wrapped up in how many people you sleep with. I agree that there is a different kind of closeness and intemecy that is only found in a partner relationship or sex. But I feel like one should not put all their identity eggs in that basket. We are worth more than the number of people who want to be with us. I can speak for myself that friendships have filled a lot of the wholes of being single involuntary. I find joy and belonging by being there for others (with no hidden agendas) and over the years have build up friendships that make me feel like I belong. No need to blame men for having other preferences. Happiness start with yourself and only then you can spread it to others.
I’m female and have been rejected many times by men however I handle rejection well, is that a female trait? Or a personality trait ? Got my soulmate now tho 😊
Certainly not an exclusively female trait. It all depends on the person, what and who they're surrounded by, and their personal experiences. There is actually an entire "femcel" society of female incels. Although there are differences between the two communities, there are certainly bitter people in both due to repeated rejection.
@@Lee-qf9dz Women cannot be incel. To suggest such a thing implies that men and women are the same which is not true. Even if a woman is rejected she still has an endless queue of desperate men to fall back on if she can't get Prince charming. A man would never have such options because women are far more selective. This is why men treat every woman they pursue as if it's their last chance because it just might be.
@@ericrhodes5174 Could you explain what you mean by being selective/endless queue? Do you define it as an endless queue of men who would still have sex with her, or an endless queue of men who are compatible with her and interested in sharing sexual experiences in a form of relationship that is acceptable for them both?
@@ericrhodes5174 that is not true you fucking idiot lmao. How would you even know if you don't know women, your reason is based on a fake ideology built to manipulate you better.
about the dialog around 20:54 , Elliot Rodger, one of the guys you referenced earlier in the video. did say in his journals that he didn't want to do it. that if a girl were to come up to him from the moments he was writing in that journal to the day of the attack, he wouldn't do it.
Kirk, I heart you :) seriously, there is not a very huge number of people who think like you. And yes, we can not solve the problems if we don't see ourselves problematic as well. (Greetings from Serbia)
@@pjfdourley4998 It doesn't help. Women mostly go for the face because that's where most of the indicators of good genetics are. That's why you see some fat guys with girlfriends. If you are ugly, all that's left for you is hookers or cope. There's no gym for your face.
@@ericrhodes5174 True but people are also attracted to peoples bodies. If you appear to be unhealthy people will subconsciously assume you are not good to breed with.
I literally yelled "Dr. Honda!!! omg" at 'pocket pus***s!!!" I love this side of you. lmao. I feel like I'm in on a secret compared with the rest of the new 90DF viewers. I love psychology so I'm here to stay! I'm enjoying watching the old content!!
Im 25 y/o and still a virgin/incel, my anxiety and socialphobia is preventing me from having girls, even thou im good looking, and girls were trying to pick me up back in college, i run a youtube blog where i tell people about my life, i wish i could show it to you but you simply would not understand my language, im not from the USA, all my videos are in russian.
I love Russian! I'm Norwegian, and I wanted to learn it and then I learned the script, but no words... Oh well, the Russian language is sexy though. I also have social phobia, and avoidant personality disorder so I know your struggle, kind of.
do you think it stems from entitlement? like they feel they are owed a relationship, access to someone's body, etc.?..... it just really sounds like that. reality is you're owed NOTHING, maybe common decency and integrity as a person. granted, finding companionship/partnership/love would be great, but if it doesn't happen, it doesn't mean go on a rampage. ps.... if incels think women are bad, they clearly know NOTHING about gay men. hang around some of them haha
Lol only in an entitled woman's mind is everything framed from "owed this, owed that". It's about _needing_ intimacy, some form of romance to function sanely as a human, and not getting it for years, decades even. This fact stands, regardless of your ideas on right or wrong. Do you think you're owed food, water, the right to live? As a woman you have access to love anytime you want it. So your perception is skewed that everything is owed or not, because there are always more options. Many men, especially in today's sexual market, can't get ANY options, ever. I bet the very few times you get rejected you act up yourself😂
@@InAnotherLife90 That's... incredibly sexist. This whole "shut up, you're a woman so you can get laid whenever lol" is not only toxic, but incredibly, willfully ignorant to the term "intimacy needs". Maybe it's just how society has conditioned people to think, but it seriously needs to be checked. Also, if you can't get reception from a woman, it could be because you give off creepy ass vibes. My boyfriend isn't exactly toned, handsome, or rich, but he also doesn't say stuff like "women could never understand..." so he's got a leg up on a lot of guys in today's society.
I'd say I'm nice average, and I've had to deal several times with men turning into angry pricks when I nicely decline an invite to dinner, or to go out for drinks or whatever. I think there is some entitlement involved. And also there;s a bit of an insult in there somewhere, like how dare YOU say no to ME!? LIke I'm a bitch who needs to learn my place. I've been married and raised a family, I'm not gay. I really do say no nicely, I don't know how else to decline invites, but these occasional angry reactions make me want to avoid men completely.
Another famous mass killing in Canada was the Polytechnique shooting. It was before "incel communities" were a thing (but the guy targetted women specifically and left a manifesto against feminism).
On the subject of pocket, what about the inflation of 'pocket book' sizes in the past 20 years? I have some 'pocket' dictionaries that wouldnt fit in a satchel
They do have a point though. You can't say they are entitled or wrong for blaming the world for their situation. The dating market is extremely grim for people who are not conventionally attractive, overweight, or who are socially awkward. We live in a libertine society where both men and women go from partner to partner. Basically all of the hot people and mediocre people are getting laid all over the place, and ignoring the less-attractive. Everybody is constantly trying to get the next more attractive partner. Nobody is monogamous. It's a mess. These guys (and girls) didn't ask to be born into this.
I think a relevant thing about the discussion of empathy- the incel community and people who 'take the black pill' often dehumanize others. They might talk about most people being NPCs and speak with really dehumanizing language about women. It's possible that this person believed(explicitly or implicitly) that he wasn't killing real people. He might not have been incapable of empathy but instead thought of the victims as not real people. It's like they're enemies in a video game, maybe?
All men aren't created equal. A 6'2 guy with a strong jaw, good frame and not super under or overweight is pretty much never going to be incel. Take that guy, give him a receded chin, 5'4, skinny fat, maybe a bit of an acne problem, then its a different story, maybe not a guarantee he'd an incel (all that term means is he wants sex but can't get it as opposed to maybe a religious male virgin or someone who is asexual) but the odds would go up exponentially.
It's about time someone tells the truth on here. Natural selection is a thing. It is a merciless and unforgiving process in which only the most fit of men come out on top while the genetic leftovers who failed to make the cut are left in the dust.
Regarding 'why jump to Marxism', Well I think it's a little like bringing up Hitler. For many people, Marxism is closely associated with Stalinism and Leninism which are bywords for genocide and repression. It's a quick way to shoot something down or 'prove it is bad'. In the American context, this is even stronger given the powerful anti-communist, anti-socialist, anti-labour, anti-union and pro-business kaleidoscope of culture and politics that has characterised the past 120 years or so. I'm guessing there is some overlap between these communities and right wing/conservative/libertarian thought in general. I'm not a political science but there are all sorts of funny contradictions to do with labelling everything you dislike or distrust as 'Marxism' or 'Neo-Marxism', like for example that the key philosopher of freedom of speech, J.S. Mill is also one of the most renowned and early Feminism thinkers. Its also funny that so many arguments against 'liberals' are in a sort of argumentative liberal chassis themselves. Even the Incel Idea, is hinged on this idea that they are being treated unfairly, unequally, etc. by not being favoured or given certain 'goods' that they think their needs merit. Of course, the argument against that (aside from basic decency and the yuck factor) is also a liberal argument, namely that coercing someone to 'hand over' intimacy, sex, love, private connection, romance, conjugation on the basis that it is socially 'owed' is illiberal as it violates the rights of women (and really people). That's not to mention that Marxism itself was formulated as a critique of classical liberalism. There are also a great many liberal critiques of Marx (and Hegel who he borrowed heavily from) for example, the philosopher of science, Karl Popper criticised Hegel and Marxism from within the liberal tradition. Devil's advocate would say that there are certain basic ideas which people associate with Feminism which have their origin in Hegel and Marx. A lot of social and philosophical thought was influenced by French intellectuals of the 1930s, 40s, 50s and 60s, many of who were influenced by a particular reading of a very small section of Hegel's 'Phenomenology of spirit', the piece on the 'master-slave' dialectic which also influenced Marx. Marx's picture of society being based on class conflict with a superior group and an inferior group is similar and so is the idea of a patriarchy suppresing women.
The truth of the matter is, we have all felt rejected, we have all been rejected.We all wake up somedays and feel the world is against us. Part of our emotional development made us strong enough to push these feeling aside and get on with it. its no coincidence that a lot of these mass killings are done by kids or adults still living with their parents. These are individuals who cannot cope with life, they don't have a balanced emotional intelligence and choose to blame rather than improve themselves .....kind of like a 5 year old kid who cannot accept that they don't get a toy because their behaviour is terrible , their behaviour is terrible because they are not getting the toy is how they see it. I don't agree that these people are suicidal , i believe they don't consider consequence , its hard to envision an outcome when you cannot accept consequences and empathy can only be shown by people with emotional intelligence
Incells' don't have STDs or the miriad grievance's that human pair bonding can bring, but then again they miss out on the joys and inspiration that envokes creative desires which inspires us for generations to come, take "The sufferings of young werther'". Or scientists like Isaac Newton, without "incels" we perhaps may not have the modern world as we know it. But without romance and sex we miss out on those experiences that make our lives fulfilling.
I know it's been two months but your outlook on life is a little odd. Having a greater purpose in life such as discovering the foundations of physics or helping humanity will ALWAYS be a more important and fulfilling life goal than any hedonistic pleasure. There is absolutely no comparison. Maybe it's because society has put romance and women on a pedestal, but this needs to stop. Men need to realize that, as much as it's a good part of it, their lives should revolve around anything but a woman or relationship.
Did anyone think about how media talks about all the gruesome details of anything bad that happens and always reveals the persons name? Like are they doing this on purpose to inflict fear to the general public and therefore control it easier!? There is no way in hell that they don't know that those details are harmful and just giving validation and attention to the person committing crime?? Am i the only one?
Sometimes it looks like we wish to suppres some people's ability to express anger just because it bothers us. But as a feminist wouldn't you agree that expressing anger verbally is a form of protest. And that the exact point is to bother or trigger others in an attempt to get attention?
Being constantly rejected wouldn't feel so bad I didn't see so many undeserving men(abusive men for instance) get literally years worth of a womans time when I know I can provide so much more.
I guess so. But they are typically suffering greatly. Having a personality issue (resulting from childhood mistreatment) is not solved by having a female partner.
@@PsychologyInSeattle Word! I've heard men say, "If I just had the right woman..." or "If I only had a pretty girl..." I had one man try to contact me 35 years later! He stalked me when I was 12. 35 years later, when his life wasn't going so great, he tried to contact me. He thought if he could brag about how his life was better than mine, he would feel better about himself.
I would add that there is no good at all in trying to compare your situation with others situation. It is already a great of a task trying to understand ourselves. Don"t spend your energy trying to understand, analize or suffer about why other men (undeserving in your point of view) get or don't get from women or from life. There is too much room for mistakes in doing that: you don't actually know if they are really happy or even (mainly) If you are correct in your assesment of their situation. Focus on yourself, develop different interests in life. Love most of the times show up when you are going on your own unrelated business and someone develops an iinterest in you through your deeds, by who you are, much more that by what you look like (which is very efemurous anyways...). That is the best we could do and It is a great task.
Justin Stark there most certainly is, as a former bass player in a pink Floyd tribute band not one of us had some psychological problems, and found a great deal of solice and gratification through Pink Floyd's music.
Psychology In Seattle was it 'One of these Days'? The first song I learned to play. Although I used to wear a hockey mask because I was too shy to be on stage, until the manager forced me to remove it. Which I'm very thankful for because it helped me overcome my social phobia.
Well said. I have treated men who could be considered incel-sympathetic. And yes, you're correct - shame (and hurt) is often the main driver behind the hostility.
I try to be kind and personable to everyone because that’s called being a decent human being. The fact I’m a woman, however, has put me in sad and occasionally dangerous situations with men because I’m not looking for a romantic/sexual relationship from them (or anyone). But I don’t judge based on appearances or status and all those things incels think women care about. I think a lot more women are like me where we are afraid that any show of kindness will be taken as sexual interest - and even those who would eventually be open to a relationship prefer to be friends first - so having a guy immediately advance on them feels threatening. I think most incels are very lonely but could find a lot of good friends (and probably partners) if they got some therapy (also a puppy or a kitten wouldn’t hurt) they could be so much happier and move on in life. I hope they find the help they need.
@@Amazing_missB you're better than them given how they view you as a woman. Though you'd be less sympathetic when you see them talking about raping kids.
@@PsychologyInSeattle Nope. You're not in my search results. My path: play.google.com/music/listen > Click top left > Click podcasts > click Search > Type 'Psychology in Seattle'. You're not there. Thanks for replying.
I would have loved to hear it from the point of view of it being a misogynistic extremist group just like for racist attacks. It’s not always psychological only, looking at social constructs in masculinity would have been useful.
I used to work for a fantastic OH Doctor who used to say for men in this position. Do you have any friends? Do you have male friends but no female friends? Do you have male and female friends? Do you have male and female friends but you can't attract a female? Then just work out why you can't move to the next sentence, if you have male friends but no female friends workout the difference of how you are treating women to men. If you have female friends but no girlfriend ask your female friends for advice on your behaviour.
I'd agree with you on the sexism, I've seen positive and negative sexism. I have confirmed bias with a company hiring female engineers. I think the issue they have feminism is starting to gain a sort of... ideological edge. See the TERF wars. I personally have seen in schools a girl threaten another student with, "I'll tell them you raped me" Ideological echo chambers exist in both "camps". I don't think that you identifying as a feminist makes you less than a person or magically wrong.
Yes, and I’m sure Dr Honda would agree with that. Very few feminists think every feminist is a good person. There are plenty of assholes who will use labels to prop up bad behavior. But it’s way more likely that a rape accusation is true than false because women get shit for talking about the true ones, so the risk of making such a claim is already very high.
While that's gotta be some of the most blatant or intentional misrepresentation of American police and gun laws... 👋, it was fun listening but you've gone to far for me
I'm a duracell but my batteries are drained
I feel like in this episode Homberto is underestimating people’s ability to dehumanize others in their mind. Like it isn’t a lack of empathy if you tell yourself “those people” are subhuman. It has led otherwise functional people to do terrible things.
I am incredibly attracted to my current bf even though he's no Chad. He is confident but humble, and I'm so happy to be with him. He doesn't guilt me to do anything I don't want to, and certainly doesn't think I owe him anything. Guys don't have to be "good looking" to find partners~ but nobody wants to be with someone with weird vibes
So my take from this discussion is that we need to be careful not to use dehumanizing language when discussing these people. They are still a part of a human experience, even if it is not our human experience. Enlightening.
For me" involuntary" celibacy hasn't let me down paths of misogyny. When my loneliness and depression we're the worst I turn to drugs and alcohol. I went from partying once a month to every week to twice a week, however I would stay sober during the week to go to school and work.
Eventually the loneliness triggered seeing attractive girls and couple's in public led me to opiate abuse. After a few weeks I started to notice signs of addiction and had planned to overdose on heroin and Valium. My parents luckily had noticed by then and made me get treatment, and I have been off opiates since August of 2016 .
Since then I had sex and got in a few relationships, but now that I'm single I still feel those feelings. The feelings of intrinsic inadequacy. It makes me miss the warm kiss that you get from opiates. My reasoning for use was "Well, if love and sex are never gonna happen I might as well find something that can mimic the feeling of being loved and desired sexuality." It feels just as true at times now as it did back then, even though I don't act on it.
I had always said tve same thing "Inceldom should be about hating yourself, not others"
Is being an incel ONLY about sex? Or is it about having an all encompassing relationship (having a girlfriend/having a wife...). It sounds like the incel community is objectifying relationships... The desperation to find someone to have sex with or have a relationship with will undoubtedly seem inauthentic to the person you're pursuing... It seems like it becomes an obsession in a very toxic way and they're too busy obsessing over their sex-life, or lack thereof, to actually live life and make genuine connections...
A lot of times it seems like they want a trophy girlfriend: the prize that they can point to in order to prove they are winners (or at least aren't losers)
I found this dialog really interesting. If I understand it correctly a lot of value and (self) worth is being wrapped up in how many people you sleep with. I agree that there is a different kind of closeness and intemecy that is only found in a partner relationship or sex. But I feel like one should not put all their identity eggs in that basket. We are worth more than the number of people who want to be with us. I can speak for myself that friendships have filled a lot of the wholes of being single involuntary. I find joy and belonging by being there for others (with no hidden agendas) and over the years have build up friendships that make me feel like I belong. No need to blame men for having other preferences. Happiness start with yourself and only then you can spread it to others.
Amen!!!
I’m female and have been rejected many times by men however I handle rejection well, is that a female trait? Or a personality trait ? Got my soulmate now tho 😊
Certainly not an exclusively female trait. It all depends on the person, what and who they're surrounded by, and their personal experiences. There is actually an entire "femcel" society of female incels. Although there are differences between the two communities, there are certainly bitter people in both due to repeated rejection.
@@Lee-qf9dz Women cannot be incel. To suggest such a thing implies that men and women are the same which is not true. Even if a woman is rejected she still has an endless queue of desperate men to fall back on if she can't get Prince charming. A man would never have such options because women are far more selective. This is why men treat every woman they pursue as if it's their last chance because it just might be.
@@ericrhodes5174 LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOO
@@ericrhodes5174 Could you explain what you mean by being selective/endless queue? Do you define it as an endless queue of men who would still have sex with her, or an endless queue of men who are compatible with her and interested in sharing sexual experiences in a form of relationship that is acceptable for them both?
@@ericrhodes5174 that is not true you fucking idiot lmao. How would you even know if you don't know women, your reason is based on a fake ideology built to manipulate you better.
about the dialog around 20:54 , Elliot Rodger, one of the guys you referenced earlier in the video. did say in his journals that he didn't want to do it. that if a girl were to come up to him from the moments he was writing in that journal to the day of the attack, he wouldn't do it.
I think seeing you do a psychology of Edmund Kemper would be EXTREMELY interesting
Kirk, I heart you :) seriously, there is not a very huge number of people who think like you. And yes, we can not solve the problems if we don't see ourselves problematic as well. (Greetings from Serbia)
OMG. Thanks!
To us foreigners those names just sound amazing funny and 'very american' you know....Jock Chad Judd etc
Funny. What would the Irish equivalent be?
@@PsychologyInSeattle Jack, Connor, Tyler....^^
@@PsychologyInSeattle There isn't really one. We don't have American Football or Cheerleaders and all that stuff so there isn't really any correlate.
@@lyndonbailey3965 I wish we in Australia didn't have cheerleaders but having so many yank bases here we got infected with their stupid.
Love hearing Dr Kirk getting riled up
There's also gymcell. Which is an interesting concept...
I'm a gymcel
I imagine gymcell could solve a lot of problems
@@pjfdourley4998 It doesn't help. Women mostly go for the face because that's where most of the indicators of good genetics are. That's why you see some fat guys with girlfriends. If you are ugly, all that's left for you is hookers or cope. There's no gym for your face.
@@ericrhodes5174 True but people are also attracted to peoples bodies. If you appear to be unhealthy people will subconsciously assume you are not good to breed with.
Funny thing is a woman created the phrase “involuntary celibate/incel”.
I literally yelled "Dr. Honda!!! omg" at 'pocket pus***s!!!" I love this side of you. lmao. I feel like I'm in on a secret compared with the rest of the new 90DF viewers. I love psychology so I'm here to stay! I'm enjoying watching the old content!!
Im 25 y/o and still a virgin/incel, my anxiety and socialphobia is preventing me from having girls, even thou im good looking, and girls were trying to pick me up back in college, i run a youtube blog where i tell people about my life, i wish i could show it to you but you simply would not understand my language, im not from the USA, all my videos are in russian.
Feel your pain!
I love Russian! I'm Norwegian, and I wanted to learn it and then I learned the script, but no words... Oh well, the Russian language is sexy though. I also have social phobia, and avoidant personality disorder so I know your struggle, kind of.
do you think it stems from entitlement? like they feel they are owed a relationship, access to someone's body, etc.?..... it just really sounds like that. reality is you're owed NOTHING, maybe common decency and integrity as a person. granted, finding companionship/partnership/love would be great, but if it doesn't happen, it doesn't mean go on a rampage.
ps.... if incels think women are bad, they clearly know NOTHING about gay men. hang around some of them haha
Lol only in an entitled woman's mind is everything framed from "owed this, owed that". It's about _needing_ intimacy, some form of romance to function sanely as a human, and not getting it for years, decades even. This fact stands, regardless of your ideas on right or wrong. Do you think you're owed food, water, the right to live?
As a woman you have access to love anytime you want it. So your perception is skewed that everything is owed or not, because there are always more options. Many men, especially in today's sexual market, can't get ANY options, ever. I bet the very few times you get rejected you act up yourself😂
@@InAnotherLife90 That's... incredibly sexist. This whole "shut up, you're a woman so you can get laid whenever lol" is not only toxic, but incredibly, willfully ignorant to the term "intimacy needs". Maybe it's just how society has conditioned people to think, but it seriously needs to be checked.
Also, if you can't get reception from a woman, it could be because you give off creepy ass vibes. My boyfriend isn't exactly toned, handsome, or rich, but he also doesn't say stuff like "women could never understand..." so he's got a leg up on a lot of guys in today's society.
I'd say I'm nice average, and I've had to deal several times with men turning into angry pricks when I nicely decline an invite to dinner, or to go out for drinks or whatever. I think there is some entitlement involved. And also there;s a bit of an insult in there somewhere, like how dare YOU say no to ME!? LIke I'm a bitch who needs to learn my place. I've been married and raised a family, I'm not gay. I really do say no nicely, I don't know how else to decline invites, but these occasional angry reactions make me want to avoid men completely.
Could you clarify your last bit - it comes across as pretty homophobic but I'm sure you didn't mean it that way?
@@InAnotherLife90 it baffles me that some guys really think women have access to love whenever they want. You are beyond delusional.
Dr. Honda yelling emphatically about what feminism is gives me life.
For your viewing pleasure: 36:51
Another famous mass killing in Canada was the Polytechnique shooting. It was before "incel communities" were a thing (but the guy targetted women specifically and left a manifesto against feminism).
55:54 thanks for the shout out.
Yeah, nothing wrong with that sort of incel.
Being an incel is something you have to stop if you're hurting yourself or wanting to hurt other women.
So many have been killed, by their own hand.
this podcast episode has a little chapo trap house energy and I love it
They got quarantined too
A man in Toronto was also killed by a cop when he had a knife on a streetcar 🤷♀️
On the subject of pocket, what about the inflation of 'pocket book' sizes in the past 20 years? I have some 'pocket' dictionaries that wouldnt fit in a satchel
Don't ever hurt yourself. Your life is precious.
Okay normie
They do have a point though. You can't say they are entitled or wrong for blaming the world for their situation. The dating market is extremely grim for people who are not conventionally attractive, overweight, or who are socially awkward. We live in a libertine society where both men and women go from partner to partner. Basically all of the hot people and mediocre people are getting laid all over the place, and ignoring the less-attractive. Everybody is constantly trying to get the next more attractive partner. Nobody is monogamous. It's a mess. These guys (and girls) didn't ask to be born into this.
I think a relevant thing about the discussion of empathy- the incel community and people who 'take the black pill' often dehumanize others. They might talk about most people being NPCs and speak with really dehumanizing language about women. It's possible that this person believed(explicitly or implicitly) that he wasn't killing real people. He might not have been incapable of empathy but instead thought of the victims as not real people. It's like they're enemies in a video game, maybe?
Charlottesville, VA, not North Carolina!
I need your full honest af review of the Jake Paul series that Shane Dawson did. K thanks!
I wonder what the correlation/ overlap is between incels and people with (perhaps latent) Retroactive Jealousy.
Btw, Dr. I'm curious as to what you think about author Robert Greene? is there any real benefit from reading his work?
All men aren't created equal. A 6'2 guy with a strong jaw, good frame and not super under or overweight is pretty much never going to be incel. Take that guy, give him a receded chin, 5'4, skinny fat, maybe a bit of an acne problem, then its a different story, maybe not a guarantee he'd an incel (all that term means is he wants sex but can't get it as opposed to maybe a religious male virgin or someone who is asexual) but the odds would go up exponentially.
It's about time someone tells the truth on here. Natural selection is a thing. It is a merciless and unforgiving process in which only the most fit of men come out on top while the genetic leftovers who failed to make the cut are left in the dust.
Eric Rhodes to a certain extent that’s true, but it’s not like the very elite group of men is the only group of men having sex or relationships
Bullshit.
metro.co.uk/2015/06/22/ugandas-ugliest-man-has-become-a-father-for-the-eighth-time-5257601/
Decent prodcast do one on Looks money status
Thanks. I'll look into it.
I wonder what you think about Tony Robbins and his take on depression
Regarding 'why jump to Marxism', Well I think it's a little like bringing up Hitler. For many people, Marxism is closely associated with Stalinism and Leninism which are bywords for genocide and repression. It's a quick way to shoot something down or 'prove it is bad'. In the American context, this is even stronger given the powerful anti-communist, anti-socialist, anti-labour, anti-union and pro-business kaleidoscope of culture and politics that has characterised the past 120 years or so.
I'm guessing there is some overlap between these communities and right wing/conservative/libertarian thought in general. I'm not a political science but there are all sorts of funny contradictions to do with labelling everything you dislike or distrust as 'Marxism' or 'Neo-Marxism', like for example that the key philosopher of freedom of speech, J.S. Mill is also one of the most renowned and early Feminism thinkers. Its also funny that so many arguments against 'liberals' are in a sort of argumentative liberal chassis themselves. Even the Incel Idea, is hinged on this idea that they are being treated unfairly, unequally, etc. by not being favoured or given certain 'goods' that they think their needs merit. Of course, the argument against that (aside from basic decency and the yuck factor) is also a liberal argument, namely that coercing someone to 'hand over' intimacy, sex, love, private connection, romance, conjugation on the basis that it is socially 'owed' is illiberal as it violates the rights of women (and really people).
That's not to mention that Marxism itself was formulated as a critique of classical liberalism. There are also a great many liberal critiques of Marx (and Hegel who he borrowed heavily from) for example, the philosopher of science, Karl Popper criticised Hegel and Marxism from within the liberal tradition.
Devil's advocate would say that there are certain basic ideas which people associate with Feminism which have their origin in Hegel and Marx. A lot of social and philosophical thought was influenced by French intellectuals of the 1930s, 40s, 50s and 60s, many of who were influenced by a particular reading of a very small section of Hegel's 'Phenomenology of spirit', the piece on the 'master-slave' dialectic which also influenced Marx. Marx's picture of society being based on class conflict with a superior group and an inferior group is similar and so is the idea of a patriarchy suppresing women.
Yeah. Agreed.
I don't agree with everything here but there's some good info that is really nice also. Cheers for the post
Dr. Honda cussing? Oh my.....
The truth of the matter is, we have all felt rejected, we have all been rejected.We all wake up somedays and feel the world is against us. Part of our emotional development made us strong enough to push these feeling aside and get on with it. its no coincidence that a lot of these mass killings are done by kids or adults still living with their parents. These are individuals who cannot cope with life, they don't have a balanced emotional intelligence and choose to blame rather than improve themselves .....kind of like a 5 year old kid who cannot accept that they don't get a toy because their behaviour is terrible , their behaviour is terrible because they are not getting the toy is how they see it. I don't agree that these people are suicidal , i believe they don't consider consequence , its hard to envision an outcome when you cannot accept consequences and empathy can only be shown by people with emotional intelligence
Incells' don't have STDs or the miriad grievance's that human pair bonding can bring, but then again they miss out on the joys and inspiration that envokes creative desires which inspires us for generations to come, take "The sufferings of young werther'". Or scientists like Isaac Newton, without "incels" we perhaps may not have the modern world as we know it. But without romance and sex we miss out on those experiences that make our lives fulfilling.
I know it's been two months but your outlook on life is a little odd. Having a greater purpose in life such as discovering the foundations of physics or helping humanity will ALWAYS be a more important and fulfilling life goal than any hedonistic pleasure. There is absolutely no comparison. Maybe it's because society has put romance and women on a pedestal, but this needs to stop. Men need to realize that, as much as it's a good part of it, their lives should revolve around anything but a woman or relationship.
Did anyone think about how media talks about all the gruesome details of anything bad that happens and always reveals the persons name? Like are they doing this on purpose to inflict fear to the general public and therefore control it easier!? There is no way in hell that they don't know that those details are harmful and just giving validation and attention to the person committing crime??
Am i the only one?
They gotta get their ratings high I guess...
Sometimes it looks like we wish to suppres some people's ability to express anger just because it bothers us. But as a feminist wouldn't you agree that expressing anger verbally is a form of protest. And that the exact point is to bother or trigger others in an attempt to get attention?
Yes. Anger can be good, regardless of gender. Expressing anger is great. It's what we do with the anger - that's the key.
Being constantly rejected wouldn't feel so bad I didn't see so many undeserving men(abusive men for instance) get literally years worth of a womans time when I know I can provide so much more.
I guess so. But they are typically suffering greatly. Having a personality issue (resulting from childhood mistreatment) is not solved by having a female partner.
@@PsychologyInSeattle In other words, the grass is greener.
Yes. Agreed.
@@PsychologyInSeattle Word! I've heard men say, "If I just had the right woman..." or "If I only had a pretty girl..." I had one man try to contact me 35 years later! He stalked me when I was 12. 35 years later, when his life wasn't going so great, he tried to contact me. He thought if he could brag about how his life was better than mine, he would feel better about himself.
I would add that there is no good at all in trying to compare your situation with others situation. It is already a great of a task trying to understand ourselves. Don"t spend your energy trying to understand, analize or suffer about why other men (undeserving in your point of view) get or don't get from women or from life. There is too much room for mistakes in doing that: you don't actually know if they are really happy or even (mainly) If you are correct in your assesment of their situation. Focus on yourself, develop different interests in life. Love most of the times show up when you are going on your own unrelated business and someone develops an iinterest in you through your deeds, by who you are, much more that by what you look like (which is very efemurous anyways...). That is the best we could do and It is a great task.
Are you a fan of Pink Floyd's: The Wall
Not especially. There are so good tracks though. I always liked that song with the delayed bass part.
@@PsychologyInSeattle There's some very interesting psychological ideas presented in the album in my opinion
Justin Stark there most certainly is, as a former bass player in a pink Floyd tribute band not one of us had some psychological problems, and found a great deal of solice and gratification through Pink Floyd's music.
Psychology In Seattle was it 'One of these Days'? The first song I learned to play. Although I used to wear a hockey mask because I was too shy to be on stage, until the manager forced me to remove it. Which I'm very thankful for because it helped me overcome my social phobia.
Watched my fifth ep, so became a Patreon supporter. Keep it up!
Kirk, if you ever get an incel in your office, treat him right. Don't shame him. Shame is all he knows.
Well said. I have treated men who could be considered incel-sympathetic. And yes, you're correct - shame (and hurt) is often the main driver behind the hostility.
I try to be kind and personable to everyone because that’s called being a decent human being. The fact I’m a woman, however, has put me in sad and occasionally dangerous situations with men because I’m not looking for a romantic/sexual relationship from them (or anyone). But I don’t judge based on appearances or status and all those things incels think women care about.
I think a lot more women are like me where we are afraid that any show of kindness will be taken as sexual interest - and even those who would eventually be open to a relationship prefer to be friends first - so having a guy immediately advance on them feels threatening. I think most incels are very lonely but could find a lot of good friends (and probably partners) if they got some therapy (also a puppy or a kitten wouldn’t hurt) they could be so much happier and move on in life. I hope they find the help they need.
@@Amazing_missB you're better than them given how they view you as a woman. Though you'd be less sympathetic when you see them talking about raping kids.
If you keep making these videos people who only listen to 2 or 3 episodes might start calling you 'that MRA psychology guy' lol damn..
hahhaha they are going to take over the restaurants and movie theaters from the couples!!!!!
I love Humberto's jokes. xD
Ha!
Good point on buddhism at the end. I became a buddhist around 7 years ago, and I found peace. And women lol.
Good podcast. This was my first episode. Can you get onto Google Play podcasts?
Are we not? I thought we were.
@@PsychologyInSeattle Nope. You're not in my search results. My path: play.google.com/music/listen > Click top left > Click podcasts > click Search > Type 'Psychology in Seattle'. You're not there. Thanks for replying.
Maybe look in a podcast app?
@@PsychologyInSeattle I will. Thanks.
I would have loved to hear it from the point of view of it being a misogynistic extremist group just like for racist attacks. It’s not always psychological only, looking at social constructs in masculinity would have been useful.
Present -_- "
I used to work for a fantastic OH Doctor who used to say for men in this position.
Do you have any friends?
Do you have male friends but no female friends?
Do you have male and female friends?
Do you have male and female friends but you can't attract a female?
Then just work out why you can't move to the next sentence, if you have male friends but no female friends workout the difference of how you are treating women to men. If you have female friends but no girlfriend ask your female friends for advice on your behaviour.
Cope, we already know this, the thing is we will never belong ever, ever, ever. Because we are ugly
Yeah, and you don’t think women aren’t also ugly?
I'd agree with you on the sexism, I've seen positive and negative sexism.
I have confirmed bias with a company hiring female engineers.
I think the issue they have feminism is starting to gain a sort of... ideological edge.
See the TERF wars.
I personally have seen in schools a girl threaten another student with, "I'll tell them you raped me"
Ideological echo chambers exist in both "camps".
I don't think that you identifying as a feminist makes you less than a person or magically wrong.
Yes, and I’m sure Dr Honda would agree with that. Very few feminists think every feminist is a good person. There are plenty of assholes who will use labels to prop up bad behavior. But it’s way more likely that a rape accusation is true than false because women get shit for talking about the true ones, so the risk of making such a claim is already very high.
I just found the solution for all incels... Become a yoga instructor
iluvboaz lol 😂😂😂😂😂
While that's gotta be some of the most blatant or intentional misrepresentation of American police and gun laws... 👋, it was fun listening but you've gone to far for me