Let's talk about SUBSTACK and comic books!
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- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2024
- You may have heard your favorite comic book creators are being poached by Substack! Let's try to make sense of it and why it feels a little weird. #substack #comicbooks
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ComicPop is a few friends talking about comic books. The ComicPop team brings a bunch of unique points of view to every single discussion about a comic book, graphic novel, character or story arc. You can find full conversations about your favorite titles from Marvel and DC Comics, plus a few pretty key independent comics. If you're looking for a long, funny conversation about Batman or a deep dive into why Spider-Man is so neurotic, check out the hours and hours of amusing, insightful and downright stupid conversations about some of your favorite comic books over the years. If you're a longtime comic book reader or just starting out, make sure to subscribe right now!
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The way Sal explains this Substack thing makes it sounds more like OnlyFans except for comic book writers. 😆
$7 for Tynion & Zdarsky's lewds 😂
That's what I was thinking too. Especially when he mentioned a lot of people were going to limit their social media presence. Before the porn boom, that's what Onlyfans sounded like. Twitter but with a paid subscription for people you care about and want to follow and support. And you can use it to distribute your works and get paid extra for that as well via paid messages.
@@Griffnix I love how casually the phrase "porn boom" was dropped.
I came to the comments looking for this, glad I wasn't the only one thinking it. But onlyfans creators know they can't put the paywall up and expect people to come to them (pun intended) they are still posting on twitter/reddit etc to get people to them.
That's where I'm scratching my head on, not to mention are they going to be hiring social media manager to help there pages/newsletters? Cause I see some of these people winding up way in over there head/depth with even a few dozen fans subbing to there stack.
@@davidsparham658 I don't know about Tynion, but Zdarsky is clearly down if you have been watching Off the Rack. Man doesn't even need to be paid to strip!
Ben: “Chip donating the money is a way to lower his taxes for the year”
*Meanwhile Chip’s lounging in his new mansion*
Chip: “He knows too much…”
They've been telling me the comic book industry was in death throes since the 70s why should I be worried now?
been doing the same thing through patreon for about 2 years now. this can work immensely well if you can keep delivering content on time.
but my experiences are probably not representative. i am kinda weird with writing and drawing 5 comic series and a novel at the same time... so who knows? it will be interesting to see where this goes
If anyone’s going to succeed at this, it’s Hickman. Not only does he have the marketing speech perfected (talking about being able to tell stories as intended without worrying about page count or future solicitations), but he also announced 3 recognizable writers as collaborators. He seems to actually understand he is running his own studio.
Snyder is also getting a great deal, especially considering he is still being allowed to work with Amazon. All profit, no risk.
I don’t think any of the lead creators will lose on this deal (barring catastrophic mismanagement), but Tynion kind of worries me, as he is announcing a lot but no collaborators, and I fear he is going to put himself in a bad position trying to do it all himself.
Worst case scenario: some great creators get the best paid year of their career and put out books they want to write of questionable quality and quantity. That’s not the worst thing, so I like the idea of these substack deals (though I don’t currently plan on subscribing to any of them).
Hickman is in the best spot because he has a really good slate of indie books to point to. Though my biggest worry about him is consistency on delivery, most if not all of his indie talent (not to mention Secret Wars finale) gets delayed. That's probably something a substack subscriber needs to keep in mind since your not guaranteed even a single book a month.
@@MisterKetch Agreed. Hickman's the only one I would even consider, under this model, both because of the structural differences in how he tells stories and because I love everything of his that I've read. But even so...like you said, he's not had the best record at sticking to a schedule. Which might not tip the scales, ultimately, on a buy-when-released basis--but for a subscription? I dunno.
@@interregnum_ I'm still scratching my head over the business model of this. Theoretically a year from now a new subscriber can sub in, have access to the first year of whatever they put out, all for the same price (assuming that they won't jack it up for this reason) this is a brand new concept for the most part the cost of entry should be rock bottom to get people on and the conversation kept going. Who cares how amazing the series might be after 7 issues if you only have a few dozen subs left
@@MisterKetch Oh, the model sounds poorly thought out, very much for the reasons you point out. Which makes it sound suspiciously fly-by-night. Which...I mean, this is a weird gamble for some of these guys, if that's the case. I would hope they see something we don't, when it comes to this. But...yeah, this is a weirdly high barrier to entry with seemingly little advantage to early buy-in.
@@interregnum_ I really like basically all these guys, they're excellent writers (Tynions batman I'll give him the benefit of the doubt cause I smell a lot of editorial over it) so I want to go with the "good guys getting paid finally" approach here, and I would...if it wasn't for thy weird nickle and dime "oh yea I'm not posting on any social media aside from sub stack from now on" bs. I really hope that's part of the sub stack grant agreement cause otherwise I think they're all gonna have a very rude Awakening and crash to earth
Honestly I kinda like Ethan's point about Marvel and DC shitting the bed here, I think substack has built quite a platform of eclectic and interesting voices and they seem to have repeated that with comics. At worst DC/Marvel have the rug pulled out from under them and they have to rely on their other talent and have a messy status quo and at best this could be a wake up call for them.
And on top of that our favourite creators made a bag and are making their passion projects. Seems like a win win.
I just can’t help but feel these tv and movie universes are the reasons comic status quo’s can be so hit or miss. You don’t need to care about comic books or do things that make sense because the tv and movie shows are bringing in the most dough. That and these writers just aren’t treated or the paid the best despite them all being legitimately talented writers who have basically reshaped how these characters are written. For years I’ve been wishing and wanting a manga/manwha model for comic books so maybe this could be the pathway to that. Or maybe just something better in general for these writers.
@@Infinitydev-lh2bo Honestly that's the biggest barrier for a lot of people. Sure, you can do the method of "who do you wanna read" and just find the solo runs of that specific character, but I'm thinking that in the long run, what if DC/Marvel doesn't care that much for the character that I like to read? At some point no one's writing for that character anymore, either out of non - interest or higher ups rejecting the pitches. At least with manga, you know the starting and the ending points. Once it's done, it's done.
Lol neverminded I am not excited anymore none of the physical rewards go to Canada, RIP
@@jayeremy4456
Well the answer is obvious than... Help the American CIA to start a coup d'etat to make Canada a American territory so you can get that sweet physical packages from your newsletter.
So, I was at MegaCon yesterday and was able to have a real quick chat with Ryan Ottley about whether or not Nick Spencer tried to introduce him to substack. Ottley had no idea what I was talking about, and didn’t even know what substack was. He asked me to explain what was goin on with the current acquisition of talent and general shake up. He seemed really interested and said he’d call a particular author about it (who I don’t want to say on here lol)
U might’ve accidentally converted Ottley 😂
The saddest thing about this is, even though I am super excited and would gladly pay Hickman 250$, none of the rewards are not getting shipped outside the US. RIP
Idk how i feel about this. It could be a Quibi level disaster. Good on the creators for getting paid a lot upfront.
I wish that you guys did these discussion videos more often. Especially after all of these years of educating Ethan and Ben on the industry as a whole it's become more interesting to hear their input on comic topics.
Haven't heard a thing about this topic since i'm not at all in the comic loop, but cool to see the boys have a discussion
This is dope. I have been so confused by the whole sub-stack move and what effects it might bring on comics in general. TLDR Long time fan still lovin the content!
I appreciate the informative video. I read an article the other day about Hickman and Tynion leaving the big two for substack and was left scratching my head wondering wtf substack was.
The only reason why I know about substack's existence was because of a politics podcast that has one. I was extra confused when I heard that comic writers were going there.
29:52 This video stars me, and I'm not sure how to feel about that.
You guys remember that guy who walked into your studio? It's not a 1-for-1, it's not nearly as shady and the more I learn about it, the more it makes sense. But I dunno. I can't shake this gut feeling...
I've been rewatching some old back issues, and seeing the improvements you guys have made across the years is so great
I don't think it's gonna last and will just make some weird waves for a few years before dying out.
I got SO excited when I saw this in my timeline 😃. Yeah for more discussion videos! Let the POPulation rejoice!
I really like these type of discussions between the three homies. This one in particular was rather informative and funny.
Love this format!
EDIT: James Tynion IV, Hickman, Zdarsky & Skottie Young seem like the ones to really get a lot of this platform.
Hickman is making an entire Universe with other writers already making big swings at Marvel.
Tynion has a prolific amount of books coming out at any time so his Substack seems great too.
Zdarsky I’ll support that guy no matter what.
Skottie Young is gonna put out more “I Hate Fairyland” and sell exclusive variants.
Honestly I could listen to these guys talk about literally anything for an hour and be wildly entertained
Substack just needs to survive long enough to force the big two to start acting competitively when it comes to acquiring and keeping talent.
It seems like an interesting concept but I do not think it is going to last, and will go under in maybe 2 years. I love comics but unless the story is good or if there are stable shed characters I do not have time to spend on it tbh.
It sounds like whenever they try to relaunch Valiant as a contender in the industry; they pour money into it, make some great books, then crash out when nobody shows up.
Man I love these videos. I had no idea what Substack even was before this, and I was invested and interested the entire conversation.
I don’t really know if Substack is gonna work, as much as I like some of the writers they brought in, I don’t really know if I have the money to or even want to pay $7 a month to read their new books, especially if it’s only like one book a month
Edit: I 100% agree with sal around the 12:30 mark
Glad seeing this talked about, it’s crazy how many creators are going this route
And apparently there’s gonna be more over the next couple of months. According to Snyder at least.
Is still think that Nick Spencer got together with a bunch of his comic book buddies and scammed substack for a fuckton of money.
Very informative! Thanks guys.
I'm sure we are going to hear about how piracy is drinking everyone's milkshake when all of them are expecting to nickel and dime the people that are excited about these sort of mediums.
Naw, most people that pirate are not going to hand any cash over to all these hands. Just to much.
That is always the creator fallacy around Piracy "It was downloaded 100k times! I lost 100k sales!" like nah, you did probably loose a few but the vast vast vast majority are from people who just didn't care enough or couldn't afford it and would never have bought it at release anyway.
7 bucks a month for the basic tier is criminal. Unless your guaranteed to get 2 books a month, and even then this just feels too much like a video game pre-order for my liking.
This was a great discussion. I would love more of these.
Honestly I don’t quite understand it, but by the sounds of what’s going on it sounds like what image did back in the 90s when most of the big artists at marvel and dc left to make their own company. If that’s a good comparison? I remember comic pop talked about it in the history of spawn episode.
I firmly believe this will be a flash in the pan. That said I did sign up to Snyder's for a year (and I can guarantee that's all it'll be) for the writing class. It's an interest, it's comparably cheap & definitely more capable of interactivity then say taking Neil Gaiman's Masterclass. Tynion is clearly a gambler who's riding a hot streak with his move away from DC, and whatever the hell happens to his own publishing line that he started up for Razorblades (which I have no idea how 'm going to continue reading now, c'est la vie). Hickman going full Hickman but also roping in friends...we'll see if that screws up personal/professional relationships. Zdarsky as always hedging his bets seems the smartest of the bunch (besides Snyder who's offering/advertising different stuff).
This feels less like Image & more like Tundra to me. Actually it mostly feels like Discovery buying Sourcefed & other RUclipss. But hey...get that money babay! Don't burn any bridges on your way.
Seems like most if not all are being pretty smart about it. Tynion's actually still with DC through April of next year on Joker, Chip appears to have a new round of DD in the works at Marvel. Doesn't seem like any of the big names are shitting on the desk before leaving.
Best case, this somehow takes off and they get to be independent creators. Worst case they come back to the big 2 in a year or more, creatively re-charged and with better bargaining power
Thank you Making this because I'm really wondering what the fuck this is supposed to be
12:00 I was on board with this until you started mentioning the pricing model now I am off this idea
Just wanted to say that y’all are one of the best comic channels out there! You guys are the perfect mixture of informative as funny!
I really won’t buy in until I hear about something good coming out of it
Why is the Despicable Me Fart Gun on the set ?!?! 😂😂
Just in case!
@@comicpopreturns omg 😂😂😂
This feels almost exactly like when Ninja got poached by Mixer to stream exclusively there. Massive payout, and then the brand dies within a year.
Interesting. Hopefully, this opens the door to more indie creators getting into this and publishing new stuff. New blood in the medium is always welcome.
I love the stealth return of comic line. Always loved this format of your videos and it’s nice to see a topic-based video up. Love the inclusion of your sources at the bottom of the screen. Only complaint about that is the text blends into the table, so perhaps bolding it (whether by a different colour or a colour box around it). However, love the video, keep up the good work!
Thank you sir. This was needed.
Substack will be the onlyfans for writers now
Good discussion. I appreciate the URLs for the articles that Sal was referring to. As for Substack, I might subscribe to Tynion IV, but I doubt it.
Anything that makes the big two reconsider how they treat artists is a good thing, whether or not this new project flies.
Hmm. I hear about this with Patreon but parasocial relationships can go to weird places when you decide to sell access to yourself. I wonder how this will work with Substack. What if a fan becomes quite uncomfortable to deal with but they paid the $250?
Good to hear about this area and whats going on thanks not many others really focusing on this happy to hear an explanation
I still don't understand why the comics industry isn't under the umbrella of the Writers Guild of America.
Really interesting topic. Great vid. Also, I appreciate Ben's soda taste.
Proves the point time is a spiral. It'll be fun to see how it turns out. I'm hopeful the new Batman writer will actually do a great story. Hasn't been good since synder and Morrison.
The wrestling observer newsletter has been going since 1982, so there are definitely people who would subscribe to a newsletter. This seems a lot like what Microsoft did with Mixer, getting NInja to stream on there for just an absurd amount of money, just for Mixer to go belly up a year later.
Now Ninja is $30 million dollars richer and back on Twitch. Mixer was banking on getting people who watch him on Twitch watch him on Mixer. That didn't happen because people are a creature of habit and don't really like to be uncomfortable if we don't really need to be.
So it’s an only fans but for comic book writers
This format is great good work really entertaining
Scott Snyders subscription is for a writing class, it’s basically a year long course that’s what your paying for with Scott not just the newsletter
I also think it’s very patreon and honestly people will pay for individual subs because they want to help that one particular person. Honestly I know a lot of people that pay into multiple patreons just because they like them. That being said I’m not sure how long substack will fund this unless it’s very successful
Man that iron man mark 2 helmet is dope
So in a month when Substack is dead i really hope the big boys go to kickstarter to make things they get way way more money we get to pay once and get the product and can we all just thank Sal for being the best teacher for every class
I was hoping yall would do a vid on this.
I'm pretty new to comics. Only really have started reading heavily in the last year. So none of the brand recognition of the "big talent" names immediately draw me in. If they produce good books with concepts I'm interested in reading I might subscribe to one. Maybe. However I really like a lot of the comics at DC right now and would be surprised if they could pull me away. I only got so much money you know.
I think the big thing for me is just waiting to see what comes out. I'll have to rely on channels like this to tell me the comic's concept and if you think its worth reading. I'm never just going to jump into a new book without reviews first. Also I don't like the fact that some of them don't offer there backlog of everything they write at the $7. If I'm interested in your book and waited for reviews, how the hell do I catch up now?
I love me when y’all discuss topics like this
"...and you didn't deliver."
- Sal (Justin Hammer)
Thanks for breaking this topic down, I didn't understood it until you explained it 😃
This was a fun conversation on a important topic that’s seems to be inconspicuous at best. I won’t be subscribing to substack anytime soon, but I wish all comic creators the best of luck.
So Substack is Onlyfans for comic book writers I guess 🌚
keep in mind Substack is giving out grants to creators, which are tax deductible.
substack does have a interesting idea but I am more worried about the execution.
Its basically patreon. If you like the creator enough to pay MORE, you probably will. People are already doing it.
Glad you made this video I was wondering about sub stack
Really enjoyed listening to this. Would love to see more of these kind of discussions in the future.
this reminds me more and more of epic games exclusives as the video goes on and that practice lost epic and the game devs quite a bit of money and sales the only reason they havent stopped is they have fortnight money and it doesnt sound like substack has fortnite money
Imagine if Nick Spencer spent the last year making a great spidey book rather than run off with a bunch of other writers to start a new endeavor
This an interesting topic of conversation.
love these types of industry discussions. I personally will not be subscribing to any creator through substack. I have enough streaming services subscriptions and cannot afford another let alone multiple if i want to follow more than one creator. If and when the books they make through substack come out in physicals, i'll buy those on a book to book basis.
I would Love to see more of these discussion type videos
I like the idea of creators getting paid well and making the books they want to, but i dont see this lasting long
Thanks for explaining this, I was a bit confused. I was thinking about signing up for Hickman’s stuff, but I’m really only interested in the comics, so I’ll wait until the book is finished and then buy a physical copy, because I have way too many other things that I can better divert my funds to when he leaves X-Men, those books start to suck, and I stop buying them.
Nicely done gents. I agree that there doesn't seem to be a market for paying $7 a month for the service. Though the increased access to some dope creators is a great idea. Maybe $7/mo for all the creator's basic levels?
I love that the creators take home ninety percent. This is what I thought Marvel Unlimited and D.C. All Access would be lol.
Thanks for this informative video. I've been wondering what's been going on with Substack. I'm not able to afford it but I wish the creatores luck. Hopefully, the shake-up will get the industry thinking. There's lots of movement, or at least it feels like it, at the distributor level. First Lunar last year, now Penguin and the digital alternatives with Comixology and Substack. Would be cool if Comixology finally updated their store, now that they want to push their Originals more.
Does anybody know if Substack have hired any comic book editors to work with these creators?
Or are these creators just going to be blasting their stream of consciousness newsletters out into the eather with no oversight or direction?
I was wondering the exact same thing, who edits theses books?
Substack is breaking the old media.
This was an absolutely fantastic discussion, but I have to ask, what is that Superman figure by the Batman lamp?
That is Superman: Unchained Armor! mcfarlane.com/toys/superman-unchained-armor/
This isn't something I'm interested in. Certainly not for those price points. Probably I'll check out some titles in print, but who knows. There's already a million titles out there and it's hard/impossible to keep up already.
I'm reminded of Prince's $100,000,000 deal with Warner Brothers.
He got all the money up front, but it was contingent on his next five albums selling 500,000 copies each, and any shortages would owe money back to Warner Brothers.
I am wary.
I've been hearing about Substack like crazy lately, but I've never heard of it before this month.
This is going to be an interesting development. To get a Chip Zdarsky autograph would be worth an annual subscription for many who would pay more than that at a con...plus, get a few creator-owned comics? It could work but I wonder how it would be long term... Great show guys.
Substack reminds me of an online social media comic con
i love ben and ethan in these type of interactions because they ask all the questions I would ask. been watching sunstack pop up everywhere and had no idea wtf it was about bit this really broke it down to a digestable level. with that said i don't think I'm gonna follow creators onto substack mainly for the issue brought up of money. I already subscribe to youtube, spotify, netflix, etc, and am already stretch thin on my entertainment budget. I can justify buying a trade here or there so maybe once they come out for physical purchase I might snag something if it piques my interest.
I paid $80 for Hickman, $75 for Tynion and $75 for Scottie Young annual subs
I would love to see you follow up on this now that we're coming up on a year. Hickman just gave all his subscribers a free month.
I discovered SubStack from another outlet and did a YT search and found your channel. The comments in this video are legit....the only thing I can see in the new platform is that new independent comic professionals are being given an opportunity to create characters and worlds. Typically if these ideas where presented in the big 2 potentially you would get 'gatekept' or you would experience 'gatekeeping'. For new up and coming creators this could be a good way to get your creation out to the public. you better be good at marketing tho.....
Substack approached the writers and made a pretty aggressive move in sniping the current Spider-Man, Batman and X-Men writers to the point where they are all cutting their runs short. I think this is healthy for the industry. Digital comics haven't made enough strides and comic book creators are grossly underpaid, so this is pretty interesting and a much needed shakeup even if it doesn't pan out in the long run.
I also think that they let creators do their indie books for the same reason they let artists sell art with licensed characters; they don't pay them enough. No one could survive if they only had their Big 2 job
This seems brutal. I really don’t like how much is moving to this subscription model where you don’t really know what you are getting. You have to subscribe for the opportunity for them to sell you things.
I won't be going to this platform...not another monthly subscription. If they're good an interesting books and promoted well, I'll get the trades.
I signed up for Zdarsky cause I'm a long time fan of his and met him many times and think he's hilarious as a person. So I was happy to buy into that "community". However, for the others, like even though I love Hickman books, I'm not going to buy in just for the comics that they might put out. Especially thinking of how unreliable Hickman is with publishing on a consistent basis.
This pops up the literal day after I subscribe to 3W3M....I'm a fool
Even though I think this thing will fail and it will fail HARD [insert clip of Sal saying the justice league will fail hard from Snyder's Justice League Back Issues] its still cool to see new ideas and new tech. Things must be created and fail for the successes to rise to the top. Plus while a patreon for writers IS neat, I already patreon writers, at least one writers, Michael Whitehouse of the Ghastly Tales podcast/famous creepypasta writer whose work many narrators have done and he just puts the pdfs up for us for the written versions of future narrations/podcasts, sounds nigh identical to substack. In which case whats the point? because, using the former as an example, its multi media, meaning he shares us the writing AND the audio when its released, along with video and other projects. all can be done via patreon. sounds like substack is just a niche version of patreon and i doubt that will bring in the $$ they seem to think it will
Definitely not subscribing to anyone. But hey, if they got a payday and some people would... doesn't hurt me. Go for it dudes.
Love these talks!
This is super interesting. Now I'm wondering if this Substack company is going to start going after other written media. Also Substack only needs one Neil Gaiman to really take off.
This kinda sounds alot like Tundra Publishing in early 90s when creators were given a shitload of money upfront by Kevin Eastman but couldn't deliver in the long run. I guess time will tell.
It’s the 90s part 2. I don’t I’ll be buying into but I hope these creators do well. I’ll be interested to see how this pans out but it feels like a flash in the pan.
Yeah... No thanks. I'm more interested in supporting my LCS and what appears on their shelves.
Alan Moore is screaming in his wizards Castle right now.