What If NASCAR Never Adopted the Chase Format?
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- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2024
- For over a decade the Chase has been argued over by NASCAR fans so here's my take. Like if you liked it, subscribe if you got the extra 2.69 seconds, and comment if you want to talk NASCAR!
I just want to say that I am fine with people liking the chase format. I'm not a fan but it doesn't mean that it means I'm right about it, just that I have a different opinion is all. I just wanted to present what the sport could have hypothetically had happen had the format not been in place and the results still being the same as they were for the last 13 years. I acknowledge that these results would not have been exactly like this but we never will know, again, I just wanted to put my thoughts on the matter forward.
The Iceberg Stop crying ya little bit...
I'm jk this was a nice video lol
The Iceberg do some research on what effect putting races on cable only channels (fox sports, nbc sports) has had on nascar verses when it was on only the big 4 channels(nbc, abc, cbs,fox) . when they started putting the all star race on cable only channels they realized quick that tv rating dropped but they was in the early 90s. Now it's way more prevalent.
I was telling everybody back in 2010 that Harvick would've won the title had they not implemented that stupid seed format. He should've been in the points lead at the beginning of the chase but it went to Kyle Busch who was in 5th I think because he had more wins so Harvick ended up starting 3rd behind Johnson. At least this year we finally got a champion who was actually dominant the entire year. Go Truex!!!
New add-ons to championship winners:
2017- Martin Truex Jr.
2018- Kyle Busch
Johnson would have won more championships than that
Man Gordon winning 7 instead of Johnson would've sent the sport to the moon potentially
Well if you watched the whole video. If they all finished the same way just where under the old points system both JJ and JG would've had 7 championships. Only think is that JJs wouldn't have been straight
Billy Diecast No he not
+Ram Fanfromok, JJ would have only had 3
They would of raced differently though
+MariosMinions, well, I don't fully agree, but considering the two drivers were in 1st with a decent lead in their "championship seasons", they would have probably raced more cautiously getting more consistent top 10 finishes. Those drivers that were down by a lot of points probably would have raced for the win, but wouldn't have been so aggressive knowing they faced no chance at a championship, and those races that came down to Homestead either way, they race for the win either way. So I think they race a little different (typically you race for a great finish every race), but I don't think it changes the standings.
As a jeff gordon fan I suddenly hate the chase format 😂
@@marksapienza3832 tehehehe think again
as do I mate
"Harvick, Logano, and Junior had great seasons that meant nothing because they lost to a guy who missed 1/3 of the season." 2015 in a nutshell
I will never count that championship for Kyle Busch in my book he's a 1 time champion in 2019
And the fact that this asshole Kyle Busch won that championship is like adding insult to injury.
@@gagemcpherson4454 actually I believe iceberg updated the championship video since 2019 kyle bucsh would've gone back to back in 18 and 19 either way a 2 time champion.
If we're basing it on a what if. Kyle busch would've won the whole thing under the Winston cup format if he diddnt get injured and bro really tried to sneak Junior with Harvick and Logano that year
@@beniPellehe was still 4th with no playoffs
Adjusted Championships:
Jeff Gordon x7
Jimmie Johnson x3
Kevin Harvick x3
Tony Stewart x2
Carl Edwards x2
Brad Keselowski x1
Forgot Truex in 2017, Kyle Busch in 2018 and 2019
Man how I wash this was true
The dream of all Jeff Gordon fans.
That would’ve meant that all of the 7x champions raced together since Gordon’s first race was Petty’s last and Gordon raced along side Dale Earnhardt for a decent portion of his early career.
In 2020, Kevin Harvick would have won his 4th championship
Gordon is the TRUE 7 time champion!
Steventhe2nd Yeah but I'm still not happy that he didn't tie Richard Petty and The Imtidator
same here, but he's a true 7 time champion in my book, the times that the chase and jimmie johnson screwed him over
History will hold him in higher regard than Johnson. Johnson is still good, but he's more on the level of Bobby Allison or Darrell Waltrip. Still very, very good company, but the highest level is Petty, Earnhardt and Gordon.
Steventhe2nd no. He only has 4.
saying jeff wouldve won 7 championships without the chase is like saying the golden state warriors are 3 time consecutive champions. (which they arent). people need to let go of the past and acknowledge statistics for what they are. every team and every driver is given equal opportunity to win races and championships at the beginning of the year. so they race their season in a way that gets them to where they need to be to win the championship. saying certain things "would've" happened just shows how unintelligent you are and how little you know about statistics and the factors that change them.
Jeff Gordon is 3rd All Time in wins...Most Poles...#2 All Time Laps led (24,936)...Most Points accumulated in 1 season...Tied for the Lead for most wins in a single season in the modern era (13)...Most restrictor plate wins (12)...Most Road Course wins (9)...Most Top 5's (325)...Most Top 10's (477)...Most races finished on the Lead Lap (588)...Fewest DNF's in a season (2)...Most Consecutive Starts in a career ( during his ENTIRE career he never failed to Qualify and NEVER had to use a Provisional)...Best winning percentage vs starts for a career...And Most Money won for a career ($153,703,667). Yes, Jeff Gordon is the GREATEST Driver in the History of NASCAR. There is NO question about it. I know Richard Petty has 200 wins, but you also have to consider when Petty accumulated most of his Victories, they were running 70 races a year, racing 3 nights a week on 1/4 mile Mom & Pop dirt tracks in the woods. Petty won 140 races between 1958 and 1971 (the modern era started in 1972). Some of those years he had over 60 starts a season and in several of those years he was the ONLY driver with a corporate sponsor (STP). So in effect, Petty only won 60 races in 20 years during the modern era, Jeff won 56 races in 7 years (1995-2001) 93 races in 25 years. So who is REALLY statistically the Best? Like I said, Jeff Gordon is the BEST EVER. End of Discussion.
If I had to disagree with you on one thing, it's least DNFs. In 2014, he completed every single race based on points, which is practically UNHEARD of. The only two races he DNFed didn't even count towards the stats, I believe.
@@rcracer8872 I mean Dale is my favorite but to say Gordon wasnt half as good is just wrong. If Dale had to race the chase he wouldnt have won 7 but if they kept the orignal way Gordon would have won 7. By stats Gordon has done better than Dale in his career. So give Gordon his due he was a great driver and one of the best ever. And let's not forget. In the mid and late 90s Gordon was kicking Earnhardts ass.
@@thomasc.5219 Eh, to an extent. Better to phrase as Gordon was kicking everyones ass, not just Earnhardts. In 1995 Earnhardt only lost to Gordon by I think 45 points. Then in 1996 Earnhardt (who was the points leader at the time) suffered that bad accident at Talladega. After that wreck Earnhardt wasn't the same for a full two and half, three years, plus he was toward the tail end of his career. So to say he was kicking Earnhardts ass specifically is a stretch.
@@rcracer8872 no he ain't from 1994-2001 Jeff was giving Dale sr. Ass whoopins Jeff won most of his races while going against big e rusty Wallace, Dale Jarrett, Ricky Rudd and the labonte bros. 😂 He didn't have to wreck them either he just dusted them Jeff got a lot more done in less time than big e oh it didn't take him 20 years to win the Daytona 500 either 😂
@@rcracer8872 if you think only championships matter than I guess David Pearson isn't all that great to you then eh?
I despise the Chase in every way, shape and form. It doesn't reward season-long consistency, it only rewards luck. A driver can literally win one race, suck the rest of the season as long as he stays in the top 30 in points, then ramp it up the last 10 races and potentially win. Indycar, F1, and other racing decides champions by how great you run ALL season.
Also, Kyle Busch is NOT a champion. No one who misses 13 out of 36 races (ONE THIRD OF THE SEASON) will ever even come close to winning the championship in any other sport. I would not even consider my own driver a champion if the same scenario occurred. Nascar just wanted a feel-good story to attempt to boost ratings ("Oooo driver breaks leg but still wins championship wowow!").
Martin Truex Jr thoroughly dominated last year (4 wins, a constant presence up front, especially later in the year). The only reason he didn't have a shot at the title was a single blown engine and a couple of slightly subpar finishes. Ridiculous.
The Chase needs to be removed. Not reworked. Axed. Burned. GONE.
Jochen Rindt won the 1970 F1 Drivers title, despite being killed in a crash at Monza. It is possible.
@@Minx5892 This is a pretty good example. Just a few notes...
In the 1970 Formula One season, Jochen Rindt won the driver's championship by racing 9 of the 13 races (69%). He won 5 of those 9 races and finished the season with 45 points total (F1 has a vastly different points system). However, only 8 drivers in that season participated in all 13 races out of the 38 drivers who participated in at least 1 race (21%).
Now in comparison...
In the 2015 Sprint Cup season, Kyle Busch won the driver's championship by racing 25 of the 36 races (also 69%). He also won 5 of those 25 races and finished the season with 5043 points total. A big difference here is that 29 drivers in that season participated in all 36 races out of the 75 drivers who participated in at least 1 race (38%).
Do with this information what you will. I just thought it was a pretty good comparison, so I decided to investigate.
A bit late, but Truex did not dominate in 2016. His highest points position all year before the chase (not counting after the Daytona 500) was 7th. He had only 8 tops 5s all season. Average finish of 13.9.
Chase Elliott had a better season than that in 2018. Do you think he dominated also?
From 2018 and 2019, Kyle is now a worthy champion, but no way in 2015.
First era of the chase was still very much points based I wish they would go back to that
Chase system is horrible. Classic points system with driver with the most points after 36 races is the only way to crown the real champion. And even without chase we would still have exciting championship battle right untill the end of the season.
I think the thing the execs of NASCAR forget is that every season doesn't have to comedown to a contrived "game 7 moment". If someone is dominant throughout the season they should be rewarded for such dominance like Gordon in 2007 or Harvick in 2010. I've always felt that blowout wins for the championship make those tight points battles that much more enjoyable to watch.
The only thing wrong with the chase is win and you're in. That should only apply when you are a chaser and you win to get into the next round DURING the chase!
The chase is like the (borwns NFL team ) trash
exactly. a champion should earn that crown over the entire season, not over 10 races. i wanted ryan newman to with the championship so bad that year to show nascar how flawed their chase crap was/is.
The sad thing is, the chase was made because people couldn't deal with the fact that Kenseth was super consistent in 2003 so they had to make something to give other drivers a chance. Completely unfair.
The Chase format cost NASCAR a lot of fans, myself included, because under the old system Jeff Gordon would have won 7 possibly 8 Championships. NASCAR robbed him. Back then he was NASCAR's most popular driver and you can't disrespect and rob your most popular and best driver and not have repercussions.
Bill Elliott was the most popular driver back then partner.
no dale jr was
Same. I quit watching after 2007. Turned me off of the sport.
@@nascartoday8849 Bill Elliott removed his name from the ballet.
They didnt "rob" him. No one could have predicted the theoretical finishes discussed in this vid.
😥I always hated this conversation when it pops up... #24ever
Gordon deserved a lot better, I can't help but to imagine that he feels a bit of spite towards NASCAR execs in hindsight. I'm not a fan of his but I acknowledge that he should be in the 7-time champion club with Dale Earnhardt and Richard Petty.
Im Ju St Chillin yeah 7 championships....damn it
I always hated the chase from day 1, but that 2007 season, as a lifelong Gordon fan and nascar fan since the early 90's sent me over the edge, and made me hate the chase, and jimmie johnson forever. Gordon's the real 7 time champ, not Jimmie.
You know Jimmie got burned by the chase too. He could have definitely won in 2002,2004,2005. So sure take 2007 but that doesn't change the fact Jimmie could still be a 7 time champion. Jimmie had a solid 14 year span that he was a championship driver for. From Jimmies First Championship and 10 years after his worst over all points finish was 11th same as Jeff Gordon. But in that same 10 year span Jimmie won 7 championships Jeff in that same amount of time won 4. Prime for Prime Jimmie was better. Also Jeff was still racing those years it ain't Jimmies fault that he was better than Jeff in the same equipment and its Jeffs fault he didn't make the most of the format if it was "easier". Also 2007 is only one year, That would make Jimmie a 6 time and Jeff a 5 time so Jimmie still was better. Also Jimmies 2nd full season (while some would still consider him somewhat of a rookie) He beat Jeff in points during the winston points era!!!!! Out of the 3 seasons they were teammates for during the winston era Jimmie beat Jeff in points TWICE in a row. So your argument is INVALID even if it was points based and not the chase format likely Jimmie still would have bested Gordon. I love Jeff and he is a top 5 all time driver to me but Jimmie is better
I do agree with you about Gordon winning 7 championship trophies and the other drivers winning a lot more championships. Tbh too JJ would've never came close to 7 with the old format.
He beat Jeff twice out of their first 3 years as teammates during the old format....
Gordon a 7-time champion, Harvick a 4-time champion, and Carl Edwards a 2-time champion, THAT SOUNDS WAY BETTER
So harvick would be a three time champ. Jeff would be a seven time. Johnson would be a three time? Edwards would've been a two time along with Tony.
Johnson wouldn't be a champion without the chase he is only consistent at the end of the Year during chase time
nathan lore the video just showed that he would be a 3-time champ
Harvick would have won his 4th championship in 2020
As a lifelong, diehard Gordon fan I hate what the chase did to his legacy. It may be debatable if he was truly as great as Richard Petty, but he was at least as good as Earnhardt. If his whole career had been under the same format Earnhardt had they would have tied in championships and Gordon has significantly more race wins. Instead, he gets brushed over in favor of Johnson.
Fun fact if the chase was implemented since the beginning, regardless of the format, Gordon would of merely won 2 championships. www.reddit.com/r/NASCAR/comments/3sex89/hypothetical_nascar_cup_series_points_standings/
@@rcracer8872 you are actually a kid though. Gordon/Johnson/Petty/Pearson > Dale Sr
RC RACER 88 Dude, calm down. You’re acting like a pestilent child.
Being a Gordon fan makes watching this video a little depressing.. Jeff Would have had 7 championships... Johnson only 3. Oh well, nothing I can do about it now.
But without the chase the drivers would race differently so you never know
If you change history you can change the future so Gordon may not have won 7 championships we won't know
Gene H I knew that before.... 😲 I'm pissed
@@MariosMinions It wouldn't have changed 2007. At the very least, Jeff would have 5 titles.
Carl would be awesome with this format
So Jeff Gordon would have 7 championships
Funny you posted this in December and judging by the comments it's blowing up now...
I really appreciate this video. I'm a Matt Kenseth fan and resent the fact that the chase format can be attributed to his performance in 2003. I absolutely believe that drivers should earn the championship over the course of the season through consistency, and allow less to be determined by luck at the end of the season (Logano wrecking Edwards in 2016)
As an MK fan, seeing how unlucky he has been this season while running consistently well when he finishes races is very frustrating: 9th in points but on the playoff bubble because he doesn't have a win while Stenhouse and Kahne are locked in...
Other sports do have a sort of "reset" for the playoffs, but in NASCAR it absolutely should not be judged by wins. The shocking drop in viewership and fanbase can attest to its unpopularity.
Thanks for watching. I agree, I saw that Kenseth was on the chase bubble and was shocked because he'd been up frontal much this year. I'm a Dale Jr. fan and I will completely acknowledge the fact that he doesn't deserve to make the Chase by a long shot. It sucks that Kenseth playing the system to perfection in 2003 caused this because that year he put on a clinic on how get the most outta what you got. I remember so many races that year where he'd be running like 15th or 16th and then with like 10 to go I'd look up and he'd be around the top 5. I consider him the last true champion of NASCAR.
Your video was able to highlight what a great career Dale Jr. has though! Even if it has not been backed up by major accomplishments, especially in the last couple years.
Unfortunately the chase really cut off what accomplishments many drivers had. Gordon would've been a 7-time champion, Junior would have been a contender more often, Kenseth also performed much better than the chase showed, Edwards was given the worst hand. I never realized just how amazing of a 2014 season Kyle Larson had as well until I looked into this topic.
The Chase truly was a detriment to a huge amount of deserving drivers through the years. In my opinion it's going to tarnish the sport and the legacies of most drivers forever.
Hopefully NASCAR sees what they've done and takes some steps in the right direction. And yes, there's a number of reasons that Edwards is gone and that's one of them.
I hope so, it's sad to see something I love as much as NASCAR be mangled this bad.
Great video, yep don't know why NASCAR tried to fix something that was not broken at all.
All NASCAR had to do was simplify the points system and give more points to the winner. Instead they nuked everything and came up with the Chase. The excitement should be in the individual races and the championship should be the bonus to the most consistent driver. I don't go to my local dirt track to watch the points standings.
Honestly, giving the winner an extra 15 to 25 points back in 2004 would've made a huge difference. Would've solved a lot.
Exactly. All they had to do was give more premium points for winning (like 20 points over 2nd place) and then have a regressive scale be more pronounced to give premiums on top 3's top 5's and top 10's.
The chase was a hip shot reaction to Matt Kenseth winning 2003, which he did fair and square because of consistency of 8th to 15th place. Well...just award more points for top 5s and wins and make the 15th to 43rd points differential really small.
That's all they had to do.
And in fact, if you watch this video, the drama was already great without a Chase. Now we have illegitimate champions and a sport that is ruined.
@@kylemielke1021 I've had a similar idea, but not to as much of a degree. For example, if I was in charge of NASCAR, I would have positions 40-31 in increments of 1 (1-10), 30-21 increments of 2 (12-30), 20-11 increments of 3 (33-60), 10-6 increments of 4 (64-80), 5-2 increments of 5 (85-100), and a 10-point gap between 1st and 2nd (110). The somewhat mathematical part of my brain likes the elegance of how the numbers work out here. I experimented with this system on the 2003 season to see how this would affect Ryan Newman and Kurt Busch's seasons give their win totals in comparison to those ahead of them. Newman would leap up to 3rd, within 2 race wins of Kenseth, and Busch would finish comfortably in the top 10 ahead of Terry Labonte. The potential for a very fast car/driver combo to overcome one or two DNFs or otherwise low finishes is very much there. Unfortunately, my system also ensures that Kenseth wins the championship with an even larger margin because of my boosted points totals of the top 10 and 5 positions. Oh well, might have to rethink that. And yeah, the freakout over Kenseth winning a championship with one win was completely unjustified imo. Bill Rexford in 1950, Ned Jarrett in 1961, Benny Parsons in 1973, and Matt Kenseth in 2003 are the only four drivers in NASCAR Cup Series history to win a championship with only one win to their name. Kenseth's 1 win season should have been celebrated as an anomaly and not the norm.
@@wheresaldocanoe Yeah what was the points under the old system? Wasn't it like 5 from 1st to 2nd and then 4 from 2nd to 5th and so on?
I also kind of liked the mystery of the hard math and relying on TV to calculate it for me.
I don't know. I guess I'm a nostalgia guy who is pissed Jeff Gordon didn't get the titles he deserved.
But even last year. I'm a Chase fan now...but it still doesn't feel like Chase was the 2020 Champ. Harvick was. And everybody knows it.
@@kylemielke1021 Back in the Winston days, 175 points were awarded for a race win. Positions 1-6 were 175-170-165-160-155-150. Positions 7-11 were 146-142-138-134-130. Positions 12-45 were increments of three from 127 to 28 points. 5 bonus points for leading a lap and 5 bonus points for leading the most laps. It was a system that worked nicely but definitely needed a facelift if you ask me. As far as I'm concerned, facelift in this context does not mean reinventing the wheel.
And yeah, Harvick absolutely was the rightful champion last year. With my points system, Elliott would've finished more than 4 race wins behind Harvick in points in a very distant 4th place. Same for Keselowski in 3rd. Even Hamlin would've been more than two race wins behind in 2nd place - Harvick was just on another level. When I watch NASCAR, I feel I have no choice but to crunch the numbers with multiple non-playoff points systems post-race, whether it be my system, the old Winston system, the regular season points as they are now, or even S1apSh0es's proposed system. That's the only way I can really watch because then I'll know who a) the real champion is and b) who the best performers are across the whole season in general. If NASCAR won't use a legitimate process to determine a champion, then I'll make a legitimate process for myself.
if they didn't adopt the chase, I might still watch it... I just hate the Chase
Watch the last half of the 1992 season. What Alan Kulwicki did is beyond words. That's racing. No chase. No playoff points.
He made up a 278 point deficit with 6 races to go and won by a mere 10 points.
U done ur home work and good research. Nice video for any NASCAR fan!
I agree the chase format ruined nascar! Was a big fan for years now have no interest in the sport bcuz winning the championship in most cases is not the best driver during the year but who was hot the last 10 races.
Watch the video by the channel UrinatingTree about NASCAR. It perfectly sums up every problem for the last 25 years in less than 5 minutes.
3 is ok. Johnson would still be my driver.
I kept looking forward to Iceberg's commentary on the 2017 Chase, where MTJ actually won it "old school" style, and also "won" the Chase, one of the very few times that has happened recently.
And then I looked at the date this was uploaded.
WHO IS HERE AFTER THE NEW VIDS ABOUT THE OPPOSITE
Jimmie would only have 3 😂 the truth hurts. Gordon would of won 7.
Why the Chase format sucks:
1. Illegitimate champions. Great seasons like 2007 and 2014 mean nothing for Jeff Gordon. 2007 was in all sense the most dominant performance by a race team I have ever seen.
2. Too much premium on winning. The whole point was to place a premium on winning which is great, but as a fan of a driver, I usually see 4 to 6 wins a year in a GREAT season. That means 30 races of the year I am upset and bummed because we didn't win and top 5's mean nothing during the regular season. (it's all about bonus points for the Chase). When there are 40 to 43 cars, you want more than 2% of the field to feel like they had a good and productive day.
3. Regular season races don't matter. The Chase was designed to ensure that the end of the season didn't have championships wrapped up 2 to 3 races before the end of the season and have meaningless races. The result of the Chase however is the first 26 races are essentially meaningless once a driver wins a race. A 3rd place finish in New Hampshire in July means NOTHING if the team already has a race win. So as a fan, why would I care? Why would I be invested?
I know this is a old video but for some reason it came into my recommended. The Chase in the beginning wasnt horrible, but once they fucked it in 2014 thats when it went down hill and 2015 proves that, No driver should be able to miss 1/3 of a season and be able to contend for the championship let alone win it. Kyle Busch's 2015 "championship" basically shows the flaws of the play off system, Consistency doesn't mean anything all you need to do is win at the right times.
I definitely prefer the old system
As a Jeff Gordon fan i both hate and love seeing this. Mainly hate cause JG kindof got shafted by nascar and happy because edwards wouldve gotten the championship he deserved
Promoting consistency and solid work, rather than a 'win and you're in' format would have been ...... better
Although I really liked your arguments, I really believe that nascar is fundamentally not something that younger people in general would watch. Nascar tried to adapt, and failed, and it drove away some old fans.
I think the chase is a byproduct of fear and desperation. I think PR is also largely to blame.
It was definitely a fad back in the late 90s through about 2008. I think NASCAR as a culture doesn't mesh well with the way American culture is today. While I think you are right that younger people wouldn't go to the sport as much as the NFL or NBA it still could draw more of them in, like you said the PR is a big part. I think that realistically NASCAR could and should be about as popular as it was between 2010 and 2012 on average, it's just that the sanctioning body is too distant and removed from the average fan to understand what they want.
lol my favorite driver was 2nd 3 years in a row
The chase format murderd nascar
I think the chase from 2004-2013 was good
I think the chase format based on points (not wins) is better. That way, a win at a road course with rain, where they only run half the race and call it doesn’t give someone a shot at a championship. Just my opinion.
wow... so the reason the chase format is the way it is now, or the "playoffs", it was created to end Johnson's dominance. but apparently all they needed to do was never add a chase in the first place. if only, right?
If no changes were made to the Bob Latford point system after 2003 (meaning a maximum of 185 points for a win), here are the champions:
2004: Gordon (5), beating Johnson & Earnhardt Jr
2005: Stewart (2), clinching at Phoenix
2006: Kenseth (2), beating Johnson by 1 point!
2007: Gordon (6), clinching at Texas
2008: Johnson, beating Edwards
2009: Johnson (2), beating Gordon and Stewart
2010: Harvick, clinching at Phoenix
2011: Edwards, clinching at Phoenix
2012: Keselowski, taking the lead from Johnson, also beating Biffle and Kenseth
2013: Johnson (3), clinching at Phoenix
2014: Gordon (7), beating Lo-guano
2015: Harvick (2), beating Lo-guano
2016: Harvick (2), beating Lo-guano, Kyle Busch, and Keselowski
2017: Truex Jr, clinching at Phoenix
2018: Kyle Busch, beating Harvick
2019: Kyle Busch, beating Harvick and Truex Jr
NASCAR uses Common Core math to calculate the championship.
2006 had single file slop to
Great analysis. Always thought the chase was unnecessary. Just race and the guy with the most points wins
Well said. Great video. I agree with your closing 100%. I was at this years brickyard race and it was honestly a sad sight.
I'll always say Carl Edwards is a NASCAR champion and that Gordon is the mythical NASCAR GOAT
too heartbreaking to watch as a gordon fan
Frankly, I think this shows why the Chase was a good thing. If it weren't for the Chase, a lot of the eventual winners here would have locked up the title with races left in the season, which I think is a very boring scenario. I even say this as a Jeff Gordon fan, so you know I mean it.
So Jeff Gordon could have been the best NASCAR driver of all time
As a Jimmie Johnson fan, I hate that guys got cheated out of propper championships. Gordon deserves a better legacy. Nascar deserved a different fate, but it fucking sucks.
As a Jeff Gordon fan i’m kinda hurt that the chase was created. also would’ve loved to see Carl Edwards get a championship and Harvick get one at RCR. i haven’t checked but I think Truex would’ve still won the championship in 2017 which i loved to see
Jeff Gordon should take over for Brian France
Wow Juan Pablo Montoya made it to the 8th place in one chase, epic.
It was kinda alright until they implemented the win to get in and the playoff-type chase in 2014. That ruïned it big time, and don’t get me started on stage racing
You hear that Kyle Busch fans? You can thank Brian France for that fake championship in 2015. Pretty funny how all of his fans think he is the greatest driver of all time. Yet he hasn't even been able to put a full season together in order to actually earn a championship lmao.
I'll say this, Kyle Busch's raw talent is probably the best since Dale Earnhardt but when it comes to best all round driver it's not even close. Kyle Busch is the only thing holding back Kyle Busch. Unfortunately this joke of a points system we have now seems to have driven his fans into overdriven frenzy. Too bad for them that nobody really takes the chase seriously anymore.
You hear that Jimmie Johnson fans? You can thank Brian France for that fake championship in 2016. Pretty funny how all of his fans think he is the greatest driver of all time.
Gabe Duncan Better than Kyle Busch.
I never said he wasn't good, but as the video shows is that he shouldn't even be in the conversation for GOAT. Of course Kyle Busch isn't even close.
Gabe Duncan The only reason I think Johnson is the GOAT is because back in Richard Petty's day, he didn't have to compete against nearly as many good drivers. On a weekly basis, he only had about 10 competitive guys he had to beat in order to win, the rest of the drivers back then weren't really driving good cars. But when you look at Johnson, he has accomplished so much during the most competitive era in Nascar history. The competition today is so much tougher than it was back in Petty's day.
As a Harvick fan, I now wish the chase was never adopted
I don't like the chase format, but I liked the newer points system of max 48. I would like to see a 36 race season, not a 10 race elimination bracket with a 26 race qualifying model. Indy last weekend was one of my favorite races in a long time, but it's been mediocre for so long, and the stands being empty reflect the general view towards NASCAR. If they want it even closer, and I think this would work, have a 36 race season with max 18 points per race. 15 to winner, 1 bonus for leading a lap, 1 for max laps lead, and 1 extra to the winner. Only award the top 15 points in each race!
Matthew Hall no pls don’t turn it into F1
I think Gordon would still be racing if it wasn't for the chase, the Chase format was put in place cause they knew Gordon was going to catch up to Earnhardt's records and potentially surpass them, and they know Gordon is a spring/summer racer and usually tails off in the fall. They got Jimmie Johnson instead... lol, oh well, at least Gordon has 7 owners titles, that's still pretty good.
Gore certain, Kenseth would had 2 more championships, Gordon would have won 2 more & Johnson wouldn't be having 7 especially under the current chase system.
I may HATE the system now but if they kept it as it was in the first couple years, I would be fine.
Wow. Did Iceberg take Xanax in the old days? I fell asleep twice within the first minute.
If they never got the chase it would be different
Nascar had its own thing no point could of improved the Winston and not ruined. Simply making it like the 2011 format with no eliminations or also you could of added a bigger points gap with a win and add 15 points for a win or something. Or the could of just left it.
Gordon and Edwards would both have 3 more Championships for each
I really like this video. You did your homework my friend. Great stuff and I think at the end you're right on with what it did to the growth of the sport.
i am certain these assumed results wouldve been very different in actuality seeing as the teams preparation, drivers effort and risks taken in every aspect change because of the chase, during and before it.
To a degree I think they would also when it comes to close battles in points and on track as well but for the most part they would be this way. I'm no Gordon fan but without the Chase I have no doubts that he would be a 7 time champion. The same teams in the front shown here by year are the same ones that would be in the front had the Chase never been a thing.
If teams and drivers aren't trying to win every week, then they deserve to lose. Their total points over a season are a sign of not just success, but effort. Didn't make an effort? Then you're a loser. The end.
every driver is given equal opportunity to win the championship every year. only 1 driver wins it so percentage wise its not easier or harder. A drivers accomplishments shouldnt be frowned upon because some people cant let go of the past. Jeff Gordon himself says Jimmie Johnson was the best driver he ever raced against, that includes Dale Sr. If you're a fan of sports then you enjoy the playoffs because it creates tight battles and no driver can win the championship before the last race which is the way it is in every other sport. The end.
The reason the ratings are down is obvious, but nobody wants to admit it. It all started when NASCAR went to the "one network" contact with FOX start with the 2001 season (which they sublet some to NBC). You don't intentionally limit your exposure/coverage! The ratings have been slowly backsliding since.
Before that you had races on CBS, ABC, NBC, ESPN, TBS & TNN, plus they were not in group blocks, so each network reminded you to watch NASCAR while promoting their next respective race in a couple weeks. Plus each network had a vested interest to have some kind of coverage of the sport even if they did not have the race that week. Currently the coverage is on FOX and NBC who do not promote NASCAR except when it is their turn for their races. The other remaining networks have no need to cover NASCAR since they air no races, hence the downfall in ratings.
The NFL has CBS, ESPN, NBC and Fox. The NBA has ESPN, TNT and about 20 regional networks. MLB has ESPN, FOX, TBS, FS1 and 20 regional networks which are constantly promoting the sport during other programming. None of these sports limit themselves to 1 network. All NASCAR needs to do is bid out the individual races again and the people would return slowly but surely because they would be reminded to watch and NASCAR would have max exposure. Let me put it this way, if you owned a business, would you want 6 people talking/promoting your business or just one person?
NASCAR would be 100x better.
Just saying but had the Chase, or Playoffs as it is now known, never been founded, you cannot just automatically assume Jeff Gordon would be the champion in 2007 without the Playoffs and so forth as it is all speculation. Jeff Gordon being the champion in 2007 without the Playoffs is under the assumption the drivers raced the way they did under the 2007 Playoff format for example. Everyone would have raced differently had there been no Playoffs in those years, and you would have had many different scenarios play out!
Harvick wouldve been a five time champion and stewart wouldve won the championship on the first year of shr
If Kevin Harvick or Kyle Busch don't win I'm going to be mad. Not even a Kyle Busch fan, but at least it would be deserved. Plus Harvick has been screwed out of championships multiple times, and deserves to at least get one more before he retires.
Lol I wonder how you feel
I don't really mind the chase now, it certainly makes the last 10 races interesting, and I can't really say it's the reason NASCAR is losing fans. However, I can't dispute the fact that a driver like Ryan Newman almost won in 2014, even though he hadn't received a single win, is a little ridiculous. Also I think Jeff Gordon having 7 championships seems a little more fitting as well.
I am a fan of NASCAR and a fan of the chase/playoffs
Can’t believe Edwards never won a chip
Ok. I Like The Chase But NASCAR Needs To Bring Back, The Original Chase Format, With The 2004-2006 10 Driver Format And The 2004-2013 10 Chase Race Format.
That Means, No More Points Resets, And No More Splitting The 10 Chase Race Format, Into 4 Elimination Rounds.
And JJ would be put in his place, maybe one championship, certainly no more than two
Kevin Queen you can't spell Jimmie..? 😂 but anyways so you think Jimmie can't while a racecar?! Richard Petty who did he race oh yeah like three guys who even had a chance because the rest of the field didn't have the money(sponsors) to even make it congrats on those 200 victories😂 Dale I mean he was a great driver but he didn't have to go through what Jimmie did.. THREE DIFFERENT types of cars THREE DIFFERENT types of points type of system yes it's still the chase but they did everything to make him stop winning it but him and Chad don't back down that's why he has 7 Championships because of the talent and so on and so forth.. but that's all I got to say
You're useless. Why all the sudden can't 'the guy with a girls name" win today, don't even answer that cause you don't know...Why the chase why the rule changes? So you think it was all anti JJ?
Guy without a name who knows nothing about buisness...let's see you fall flat on your face! Two questions for ya... 1) why doesn't NASCAR race on short tracks anymore and 2) what's the reason for the chase system?
I've seen this multiple times, but I would say the sport is being destroyed at the grassroots level more than it is at the top end. I've seen somewhere that late model races have a huge barrier of entry anymore due to the cost of fielding a team.
For 2017-2019, Martin Truex Jr. would have been the Champion no matter what but would have beaten Kyle Busch by 167 points. Kyle Busch a couple of weeks ago would have won his second championship in a row and career. In 2018, he would've beaten Harvick by 48 points, and it would have been closer this year with the closest margin. Kyle would have beaten Harvick by just 2 points this year.
Hard to tell who would have won without the change. Different points may have caused different emotions from drivers making them make different choices.
I think they should do a dubble! Take back the old Championship format and add a new Cup Race Champion, the some rules as todays chase. And at the last race deside both champions. When to make a dubble, it would be awesome!
New to your Channel good videos 💪🏾🤘🏾
Great video. Really shows how the Chase changed history and allowed lower skilled drivers to win Championships.
Can't judge championships without the Chase, since momentum was also changed. Kyle Busch in 2008 had a huge lead after Race 26 and surely would have gone into conservative mode and raced for points.
Then there ratings would be up, ppl would actually go to the brickyard race lol and the stands wouldn't be empty on national tv and the race wouldn't have been 6.5 hrs long, oh and Jeff Gordon would have broke records
Kevin Queen lol what does the chase have to do with the length of the race?
AJ one and the same, you really don't know, do you. Here is a question for you, why did NASCAR adopt the chase format in the first place?
Kevin Queen...NASCAR literally went to the "Chase" Format because of Jeff Gordon's Dominance. He won 4 Championships and had a Runner-Up in 7 years (1995-2001). He was so dominant during that period that Bill France had a meeting with him and Ray Evernham and told them if he was dominating ANY given race with less than 10 laps to go he was to slow down and and keep the 2nd Place care within 2 seconds. Look it up, there's a video on RUclips about the meeting.
2004 , 2007 and the 2015 seasons are the ones that really piss me off .2007 Gordon had 6 wins 21 top fives and 30 top 10 finishes and still lost to Johnson who had 5 dnfs that year Gordon only had one at charlotte Gordon averaged a 5.0 finish that year. in 2015 kyle busch only competed in half the year but was able to still win the championship amazing. 2004 Gordon was more consistent then Johnson or busch and if it wasn't for running over a air hose at darlington at the second of the last race of that season which cost him the 15 bonus points he would've won the championship easy still over busch and Johnson regardless .Jeff Gordon should've had six championships to his name and Johnson four
We could have had tons of other teams in the mix instead of the same old number crunching gamey bullshit races.
Carl Edwards deserved at least one championship.
actually 2
The way it should always be is that the driver who wins the most races every season gets crowned the champ. What could be more fair and more simple than that?
I didn’t hate the initial chase concept, but I think the current playoff format is a complete joke. Even though I’m a Harvick fan, I think it would’ve been hilarious if Newman had won the 2014 championship. I think nascar would’ve changed the format for sure if that happened. They have tried so desperately to make a postseason work, but one race should not determine a champion. That’s literally the dumbest idea I have ever heard. This new system values winning over consistency, but that’s just stupid. All they did was create more drama and obviously people aren’t tuning in for it.
alternate timeline: "What if NASCAR Had a Stupidly Gimmicked Points System that Changed Basically Every 2 or 3 Years?"
I've always wanted to know this. Thanks
to be honest if the chase wasn’t created i think drivers would’ve driven pretty differently in those races, but i like to think that the way you did it would still be the same results
I only lasted 1 year as a nascar fan after they implemented the chase format.
Maybe if Matt Kenseth had won more than one race in 2003 we probably would have the chase format.
Hamlin would've also have that Championship without the playoffs in 2007
Who would’ve won the 2017 MENCS Championship? (In the Winston Cup format)
I’m assuming it’s either Truex, Kyle Busch or Larson
Truex would have by a country mile
truex champ either way
I understand the stages and such but there shouldn't be a caution after each one. Top ten should be rewarded more than the rest though. Or even top 15. It shouldn't be a bonus but just how they points are given at the end.
People down here keep saying it shouldn't be based on wins but WINS ARE IMPORTANT but the chase cuts off the chance for different drivers to win early. Gives them nothing to work for
It goes both ways. Matt Kenseth shouldn't have won. To be a champion I feel like you should win AT LEAST one race.
But I also think kyle Busch shouldn't have won either. Imagine if a sports team forfeited for 1/3-1/2 of all the games that season.
But it doesn't matter because all these rules popping up are to distract people. NASCAR in 2017 is rigged. People are paid off and cautions are thrown whenever they please. It is very annoying and it will soon stop me from being a viewer and I am a hardcore fan of stock car racing.
Kenseth won a race in 2003 at Las Vegas and then was incredibly consistent after the fact.
The Iceberg that is true. Forgot about that but so was every driver in the top ten lol. JJ had 4 wins, Jr had 2 and 21top 10's, Ryan Newman had EIGHT WINS and 22 top 10's!!!! So no, MK did not deserve the championship compared to other drivers. But that is obvious cause everyone got upset which caused NASCAR to mess around with the system.
All of those drivers also had more DNFs that year. Kenseth, on average, finished ahead of most of those drivers every week. He played the system to perfection. Almost every other champion had 3 wins or more. Just because there was a fluke year does not justify changing the course of the sport forever. Kenseth deserves the championship, no question.
I think that they should keep "The Playoffs", but they should also give out the total points champion for the whole season
I agree with you 100% nascar killed itself with the chase
My only problem with the idea of "what would happen with the old format" is it assumes the races play out the exact same as they would with the current system
Think about it like this: It already happened, this is what it WOULD look like if (x)(y)(z). Simple.
@@ogdrifter9977 What James is saying is that under the old format people would have raced differently. Wrecked cars used to go out and race for points. When they got to the point where they wouldn't gain/lose any more points they went back into the garage. They were content with a top 5 or top ten because of the points they got. They would have played things differently and the outcomes of each race may have been different. Teams "needing" a win under the new format meant taking risks they may not have taken under the old format. Yes wins are important but a guy with say 5 wins in a season but 5 DNF's and some bad finishes doesn't mean he's better than a guy with 1 win but averages 6th place throughout the season. The old format was consistency. Some drivers had the championship wrapped up before the season was over. There was no way #2 could catch him no matter what the last race results were.
As a lifelong Jeff Gordon fan, I'm crying a little inside. 3 years after this was released.