The Scandalous History of the Lobotomy // What Happened to Rosemary Kennedy [CC]
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- Опубликовано: 6 окт 2024
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There was a typo on the video so I blurred it. Please skip to 15:16 if you find brain surgery icky. Sorry about that xxx
I'm happy you'refeeling better, thank you
Have you read the book Rosemary: The Hidden Kennedy Daughter by Kate Clifford Larson? An amazing read, although a sad story
lol I thought my eyes were going a bit weird. XD My brain is odd sometimes. ^_^
Have you thought about covering Sappho of Lesbos? 👭🏻🌈❣
... I am loving your sassy side camera. And hair! Mesmerized. 😍
My great-aunt had a lobotomy because she fell in love with a man from Africa and her family disapproved. Her parents were very rich and influential and she was sent to a "sanitorium" and lobotomized for it. Afterwards, she was wheelchair-bound and the only words she could say afterwards were the names of her family members. The ones who did that horrible thing to her. They abandoned her to die alone in an institution.
This is why we need to remember our past, so we do not repeat it.
@Mariel R true. This all happened in Canada, but a lot of the values hold the same. Ignorance, intolerance, hatred and judgment are unfortunately all around, especially during that time.
Oh, god! This is horrible!
I’m so sorry this happened to your great aunt . Hope your family can face this and have since learned from it
@M That depends on your definition of religious
People forget that this wasn’t that long ago at all. Thank you for hitting us with the reality that this happened to your great-aunt and not great great great great-aunt.
That doctor was a monster. He even lobotomized children who were deemed “difficult to handle” by their parents.
and he did lobotomies until 1967 when he was finally banned!
Breanna Alger happening now but with ELECTRIC Shock TREATMENT for mental illness but causing terrible brain damage for Children with adhd too.
@@pebblesmiller9026 That is not true anymore. It used to be a dangerous procedure between 40s and 60s but today ECT is a well researched treatment and if it caused brain damage, it would be banned. It kick starts regeneration of the brain. ECT patients are in full anesthesia during the procedure and current of 0.8 amp is passed through their brain for up to 6 sec. Your standard AA battery has 2.7 amp.
Howard Dully, one of his victims, wrote a really interesting book called “My Lobotomy” about this.
A.) ECT can carry side effects for sure, but not brain damage. Usually more like headaches and nausea. B.) I have never heard of it being used on pediatric patients at all or for treatment of ADHD in anyone in its current form. I would love to know your sources on this statement?
What happened to that poor woman is a horror story.
Tara still happening. Its called ELECTRIC SHOCK THERAPY. Damaging brains and lives
Pebbles Miller Will you stop? Troll
WritingSchiozo101 im not a troll . I just want people to know that unbelievable treatment is still going on
@@WritingSch ?????????????????????????????? please learn what troll means
@@pebblesmiller9026 if not via electro shock then via chemical manipulation
I'm autistic, and when people yearn for the "old days", I tell them about what happened to Rosemarie Kennedy.
I have major depression and intense anxieties. I feel you, friend
if i we're born in 1918 i would have been lobotamized. ( im dyslexic and can't spell lubotomy)?
@@satanicsycophant1501 it's spelled "lobotomy", I hope this helps
Chezzi Been I’m Dyslexic too and my younger sister has moderate developmental disabilities. If we were born back then and had different parents we would have probably had no where near the life we have now.
@@alicefisher8736 My father would be the only word alive. gulp
This is so incredibly sad. She could have carried on teaching and lived a happy life if that barbarous man hadn’t have hacked away at her brain.
Lucinda 100 s of people in 2020 being brain damaged / abused by psychiatrists prescribing..... by ELECTRIC Shock THERAPY.
@@pebblesmiller9026 You understand that you cannot use that without permission and it is far different from how it once was. You are not informed and are simply trying to upset people
WritingSchiozo101 i am informed and have personal experience , 😊
@@WritingSch in most of the countries, sure. Unfortunately, there still are countries which are locking disabled people away to "hide" them and "curing" them in a ways Mr. Freeman did. China and Russia for example, altho it's not well known, as both of the countries are good at making people shut up in their own ways. :/
The ultimate villain in this case is really Joe Senior, who was a really awful person whose designs for his sons ultimately lead the deaths of most of them, and the near ruin of the last, before he died, as well as Rosemary's torture.
I am a history nerd. I have read a lot about the Kennedy's. It's a shame how Rosemary was "hidden away". It's shameful what was done to the disabled back in those days. We have made huge strides in this area. But mental illness still has a stigma attached to it today.
Luckily not to the point of lobotomies though
B Humphries not so patients in pyschiatric hospitals can and are sectioned to be treated agains their will with ELECTRIC SHOCK THERAPY . In some areas this treatment is in the rise.
I know as direct experience!
@@pebblesmiller9026 I didn't know that. That's absolutely horrible. Did this happen to you here in the United States? I've been living with depression since about 2001. And I had difficulty finding an antidepressant that would work for me. My psychiatrist did talk to me about EST. I declined, despite her claims that it is no longer barbaric as it once was. I'm really sorry that you were forced to go through it.
We don’t do lobotomies anymore, but I wouldn’t say we’ve made “huge strides”.
Disabled people are still neglected, abused, institutionalised, assaulted and killed, all over the world. The situation is still horrific. It’s not all better now, it’s still bloody atrocious.
I just want to make that very clear.
@@pebblesmiller9026 I'm very sorry to hear you went through that experience. You should have gotten a say in it. I have a couple friends/former inpatient roommates who underwent ECT, and it was a life saving treatment for them, but they chose it with full knowledge of the side effects, which are severe. It should never, ever be done without patient consent.
I have Borderline Personality Disorder. Rosemary Kennedy's story scares me because I know how easy it is for my feelings, worries and fears to be dismissed and silenced because I live with a severe and disabling mental illness. If I am being abused or treated badly, there is a chance I won't have a say in what happens to me. And less than a century ago, I very likely would have had my brain mutilated because my emotions were too much for society to handle.
I got scared this year hearing about the young Black people who were taken away or hurt just because of having a mental breakdown/meltdown, acting in a way slightly different from social norms, or just having different needs. Unfortunately there is still a long way to go. It made me wonder that if my skin was darker, would I have more trouble getting help than I actually do? I have some (rather distant) indigenous/metis relatives, and seeing the way Canada and the United States treats those people when they have mental health issues is horrible.
You’re stronger than you think ♥️
I also have BPD and that is so true. As much as mental illness is becoming somewhat less taboo to talk about and have an understanding of, this is not the case with BPD. Most people haven't heard of it and if they have, it's from Serial killer or media where we are made out to be monsters who don't care about people and manipulate them. When the reality is, we are just in an overwhelming ammount if emotional pain the majority of the time. So sorry you are also going through this terrible mental illness.
Stay strong Billie! These stories are so important!
"Let go of the bad, keep the good." My mother taught me that. And she was right.
Brilliant. Historically accurate and socially aware. Discovered you through Anthony Padilla. So glad I did.
She’ll just keep impressing you more and more, welcome to the community
Welcome!
Who hears about a procedure that involves shoving an icepick into someone's brain and severing the connections between lobes of the brain and go "that sounds like a great idea"?
The guy who killed Leon Trotsky.
one of extreme treatments for epilepsy that we have today is removal of literal half a brain. Normally only considered if you have so many seizures that you can't function at all, but still.
@@mirta000 yeah, as an epileptic it is my choice whether I am or was to have surgery but there was a 1/4 chance of being permanently brain dead and well, with those odds I opted to never have it done even if it were to totally cure my epilepsy potentially... I have one seizure a fortnight approx? So sort of bi-monthly at least without a known trigger but yeah. I do hope I don't continue to damage my brain with the frequency of my seizures.
i've actually spoken at length with my friends and family about this, and we all wish there were studies or papers being written on this phenomenon. especially when you consider the fact that for hundreds of years, a lot of indigenous cultures around the world knew how to *properly* care for and heal whatever ailed their communities. what went different for europeans, their colonies, and their descendants? why were their medical treatments (something claimed to "help") so cruel and barbaric?
People in indigenous cultures died from now-curable infections.
My uncle is mentally disabled due to difficulty during childbirth. Ironically, he is also a Kennedy. I believe his symptoms are very similar to Rosemary as oxygen was cut off to his brain during my grandmother's delivery. I am so grateful that my grandparents were not embarrassed by him. He was born in the 1950s and my Grandparents took care of him until they passed away. He is a beloved part of our family and has a brilliant memory. We treat him like we would any other person. Rosemary's story has always broken my heart as her condition is so similar to my uncle. She could have thrived if they gave her love and support instead of hiding her away and trying to "correct" her.
This!!! This is how it should be. You acknowledge their limitations but treat them just like any other family member, because they are!
One of New Zealands most reknown authors - Janet Frame - was saved at the last minute from a lobotomy when it was discovered she had just won a major literary prize!
Her family reacted quite nastily against the idea that she could have been autistic (an academic theorised this after her death) but as an autistic woman myself, if she wasn't I'll eat my hat.
To anyone who doesn't know if they should watch this after the warnings: Although this is of course a well researched and greatly presented video, like we know of Jessica, you definitely need to be in the right head space for this. Maybe bookmark it for later for a time when you feel like you can handle heavy real life information that might hit closer to home than you'd expect.
This! It hit me much harder than I expected.
Yeah, this is a very difficult subject, especially if you don't have the spoons. It's so devastating
To add clarity, there are no disturbing visuals but rather disturbing descriptions and the story itself is absolutely tragic.
JooMixBoox & Spliffleh,
Your kindness in describing in detail what to be aware of in making decisions about when to watch this is heartwarming.
Thank you, I’m bookmarking for later 😭
When I worked in a carehome about 17-18 years ago, we had two people that had been lobotomized after WW2. One man and one woman, both in their 90s. Both of them had the full use of their bodies, could walk and take care of themselves (more than most people in their 90s), but had limited language. But it truly was like they were not there. A body without whatever it is that makes you human. There was no emotions at all. The only thing I experienced, similar to emotion, was a stress reaction to a routine not being followed. But it was also in a strangly absent way. She froze and refused to do anything. As soon as things was done as normal, she went back to being calm. I remember feeling so much anger that they could treat people like that, for having traumas. We did our best, to make the end of their lifes meaningful and comfortable. I don't know how they experienced things, as it is very difficult to tell. But I hope they at least felt comfort, if nothing else.
Suggestion for your next historical profile: Louisa May Alcott or Alan Turing. They were both very talented LBGT people who saw incredibly cruel treatment.
I didn't know Louisa May Alcott was LGBT+ I would love a video with more information on that.
Wait what??? I've been studying Alcott for years, and while she's obviously LGBT+ she was never "out" and enjoyed prosperity and respect in the Boston area as an adult author. Her dad was a dick who frequently made his family go hungry when she was a child, though, so she suffered from chronic pain and immunosuppression that meant she was more succeptible to illness (also she caught typhoid and was dosed with mercury). So a lot of abuse and neglect and trauma, but it was never specifically focused on her being gay. In the eyes of society, she was the spinster sister who took care of her family in their old age. Every family needed to have one.
@@emmacarter6033 same
I knew it! I knew Louisa May Alcott was gay!
@@TheRealKissyRee We don't know, she may have been trans and straight lol
This is horrifying. As someone with autism, I was a little behind my classmates in certain areas. I do not know why people treated people like me in such away. 😔
it still happens unfortunately. i know a girl who had a brain surgery essentially similar to a lobotomy done in the 2010s to 'fix' her because she was autistic and nonverbal, it left her with horrific irreparable damage. it's scary and it hasn't stopped, esp with organisations like autism speaks funding shock collar institutes and bleach 'fixes' etc, canada refusing the right to marry to adults with cognitive disabilities like autism, etc... but knowing other people who are autistic, disabled, chronically ill, etc and surrounding yourself with that makes it easier to cope with the world being set against us. there's nothing wrong with us, just a lot wrong with the world. xoxo
Unfortunately ignorance exists, and when ignorant people raise children they are going to be ignorant too...It's a loop.
@@OmqSparklez How unfortunate. I did know about Autism Speaks and their whole "cure" agenda. Its so sad that an organisation that supposedly is for the help and. nurture autistic people does not have a single autistic person on their executive board. I am a fairly high functioning individual but for me to be able to work to my full capacity I need some accommodations in place. I also have bilateral hearing loss. Yet one more reason I would be considered "undesirable"
Because people didn't like different, som still don't, but I and I hope everyone i the comments do, it can be an awful and cruel world but we have to keep fighting for the right things
@@OmqSparklez I live in Canada, and I struggle with finding resources for how to get help as an adult with multiple neurodiverse conditions (and physical pain/fatigue). But I did not know about the marriage thing. Myself and my partner have different kinds of learning disabilities (not fully diagnosed due to the high cost for private, and the many year wait times for free testing) and now I want to look into the marriage thing. Thankfully university policies where we go are great when it comes to accommodations and free advising services, but I worry about when I need to get a job after I finish my degree. Will employers be able to accommodate my sensory needs? Will I need to pay another $1500 for a second 20 page report about what my needs are? I sure hope not, but it seems like unless you're one of those "autistic genius" stereotypes, it's hard to get anyone to listen to our needs.
How traumatic to have your first experience of entering the world, trying to be born, be literally forcefully halted by someone and having it be because of your family. A newborn doesn’t remember explicitly ofc but the body and parts of the brain remembers :( Thanks for covering this, Jessica! I’m American and I had no idea.
People can actually have trauma from childbirth so you’re 100% right
her entire life was halted by her family, but esp by her father.
yes that's so horrible! That nurse can't have been very well educated.
Two hours... my god, the pain on Rose must have been unbearable as well. But really, they halted it because they didn't trust the nurses (female) to do their job; they wanted to wait for the (male) doctor. All of that pain due to sexism, nepotism, and classism.
Carly Black Yes I was thinking this.
I was born almost 38 years ago (not the 1920's), with Spina Bifida. The doctors told my mother that i'd never be independent in any meaningful way and advised her to institutionalize me. nearly 38 years later and ive done everything so far that the drs said I wouldn't be able to & am a national champion athlete.
I'm glad to read that! You won
Thank you for sharing your story and proving doctors wrong. Bravo and my compliments to your mom. The body follows the power of the mind. Blessings.
That is dope yo!!
I wrote my thesis about Rosemary five years ago, so I'm always thrilled to See more People learn about her and her story!! Thank you for making These Videos!!
Can we access your thesis somewhere? I would love to read it!
It kills me to know that all she ever needed was a little support, yet she was forced to endure a horrible surgery. If she had just continued studying at a supportive school she would have thrived. I'm so glad we don't trust these surgeries today, and we're beginning to be more open about mental and learning disabilities, though we still have a long way to go. Also, I was never taught about her in school. I learned about her when I read an article about the special Olympics, which mentioned the founder's sister was mentally disabled, but I had no idea she was disabled due to a lobotomy. I'm glad her family started speaking out about disabilities though. Also, I had no idea Eunice's son started Best Buddies, I know all about that organization
Maddie Tillem mentally ill patients are forced, by section of the MHA, to have ELECTRIC Shock THERAPY in the UK everyday. Its abuse and barbaric in 2020 . I know direct experience
Rosemary sister Eunice started the special Olympics in honor of her sister. Something good, unfortunately from tragedy
Oh, her husband Colonel Shriver started the peace corps.
We wouldn't need the Special Olympics if disabled people hadn't been ostracized in the first place.
Anna Elizabeth that makes no sense!
@Ali S Absolutely! She did a wonderful thing. But it would have been cool as hell not to need it in the first place.
....how??
But she never visited her
And this is why I’m doing Learning Disabilities Nursing, unnecessary and avoidable healthcare inequalities drive me to keep going when it gets hard
BRAVO! It is so hard for them to advocate for themselves and sometimes their parents are not worried about their best interests. Keep at it Fleur...you're awesome! Can I ask...what made you make this choice? It's not the everyday line of work.
Fleur Pomponne please try and stop ECT if patient and their families do not want this abusive and damaging treatment
A A thank you for you advice. I dont need research when i have direct experience
@@lucylulusuperguru3487 I have autism and learning disabilities, I try my best to advocate for them! It's nice to have allies, I just hope people realize that we also have the ability to speak out.
Thank you. I was put in the psych ward just for having a panic attack while being admitted to the hospital for a lung issue.
As someone who is mentally ill, the history of the lobotomy has always held a dark intrigue. While curious about the history of the procedure, I was also obviously horrified. I knew some stuff about Rosemary Kennedy going into this video but certainly not that she was deprived of oxygen during her birth. If I know anything from Call the Midwife, that is INSANELY dangerous. This video, while not exactly fun, was very interesting and informative; thanks for it.
As regards future videos, I'd love some background on the ADA or a comparison of protections for disabled people in the US and UK. I went to London four years ago and I was AGHAST at the lack of accessibility on public transportation. "Lifts" were barely operational on the tube and the whole "mind the gap" thing made it seem like it would be IMPOSSIBLE to get around with a mobility aid.
I hope you and Claudia and Walter and Tilly are staying safe!
Yes to all of this 🙌
The ADA stuff over in the US is strange. It's very misleading, at least in my experience. There's plenty of talk about inclusiveness and the like, but in practice, it can often be easier to not go to employers about it. I've had whole smear campaigns started against me for bring in my doctor's notes to try and get them to not punish my ability to only work 15 hour weeks.
There's a great documentary on Netflix called "Crip Camp" that talks about the history of disability activism in the 60s-70s in the USA. It is so inspiring.
Mentally ill here, when I think about those times I only see death. I would have died or killed myself. I just can't, it twists my stomach.
This "Dr" Freedman reminded me of something I read a few years back. Which lead me down a rabbit hole.
It turns out, several "drs" in my area where, infact, not doctors at all. Some where failed med students, others simple read medical books and fancied themselves doctors.
What's shocking is that they were able to open surgeries, "treat" patients, and amass millions of dollars/pounds etc before they were caught.
I believed a dr had to earn the position, the title but, apparently, you can pay for it and sing and dance your way into it.
My heart goes out to Rosemary Kennedy. To everyone.
Heres to hoping for a better future. A human future.
Where was this? Has infrastructure been put in to place to prevent it?
@@maeve909 The US of course. I don't know about the other.
IPONJ that sucks :/
@@maeve909 I so want to go home to Ireland (dual nationality) but I can't leave my friends and family behind. I need a really BIG suit case.
The way Rosemary was described as never leaving home without family struck a nerve. Although we’ve never lobotomized my sister, who has Down Syndrome, she does mostly only leave the house with family members. She used to have activities outside our home, but due to COVID 19, she is only able to have those activities through Zoom meetings, which has really limited her access to the outside world. I wish we could go back to pre-COVID days so that she would have that access to activities and friends outside our house. She misses her singing classes and her field trips to bowling alleys.
How disgusting, all for the sake of the “family name” & political ambitions for other Kennedy siblings. Extremely sad. 😰
Stomach-turning, heart-wrenching, and expertly told. Thank you. I now have much better context for my grandparents' outright terror of psychological/psychiatric care
As an autistic woman, this is one of the many reasons why I wouldn't want to go back into the past if I had a time machine (well...outside of maybe ancient Egypt). Treatment of disabled people back in the day was horrible. I was born during that weird gap between Millenial and Zoomer. And if I lived even 70 years ago, I could've suffered the same fate as her, which is horrifying to think about. I'm pretty thankful I live in a time period where I can get proper aid, and live a normal life. We've came a long way since then.
Rosemary's story is super tragic as well. If she was a Millennial or Zoomer, she could've gotten better aid for her condition and became a wonderful teacher. But because she was born in the turn of the century when mental illnesses weren't understood, this was the outcome. I almost think it's worse that she lived to old age, since she was forever trapped in a body of a vegetable. But on the plus side, her family created a lot of organizations for disabled people in her memory, so that's good.
my mother had 18 shock treatments by my fathers ok because she found out his abuse of my sister and I and was going to tell his commanding officers. in the late 60's
Jean Lee im so sorry to hear this. Many patients are trying to raise awareness about this treatment still being given in 2020
@@pebblesmiller9026 Shock treatment is MUCH different now. And one's husband wouldn't be able to easily sign off on it the way they did in the 60s.
😰😰
That's terrible, but I totally believe it, based on how warped people were when I was a child in the early 70s. Reminds me of the singer James Taylor's song Fire and Rain, about "Suzanne". She was his friend, and her parents had her committed because she was not following their ways. She was overwhelmed and killed herself. People having control over other people.
For WIW I had 14 rounds CT at Chelmsford private hospital Penant hills Sydney Australia , the doctors had their mothers living there and a doctor committed suicide - I also had deep sleep therapy , some patients died because of being overdosed with the sleep drugs , luckily for me Dr Zilliacus was not the worst of the mob.
i have a neurological disorder in my brain i,m willing to work for my dream . but people well people treat me like i cant handle myself but what i really wanted to say is you inspire me to do better and be better .
Don't let anybody tell you you can't I also have a neurological disorder in my brain the left side of it was damaged from carbon monoxide poisoning and when I tell them I have a learning disability it really angers me when they treat me like I'm stupid I'm very smart and I've overcome the lot of things as will you stay strong and go for your dreams
@@bellaganamama i use that to my advantage. People are more forgiving if you mess up
This so sad. I knew about her existence and that she was given a labotomy, but I didn't know she was still alive when I was little...
Yeah, she lived for a long time. :(
I had no idea about Rosemary Kennedy. Poor girl, Montessori is wonderful, I wish she could've stayed there. Lobotomies are truly horrifying.
Rosemary’s story is so devastating, I always forget that she lived such a long life.
Jessica, will you please please do a story on Rose Wilder Lane? She's a relative of mine and I'll be happy to fill any blanks I can if you need me to. Much is on the internet about her. She was a real trailblazer in virtually every way. I think you'd be fascinated by her. She had a million and one facets to her and her mother was Laura Ingalls Wilder of Little House on the Prairie fame. Could make for a very rich historical vlog about a woman with a strong mind, courageous heart and pioneering spirit. She fought a lot of stigmas and was a real groundbreaker far beyond her time. I would LOVE it if you would and I think you'd enjoy researching her immensely.
One of my teachers growing up was also related to Laura Ingalls Wilder, but on the Ingalls side! :)
I would love to see a video about your relative!
Sounds interesting
@@ChristChickAutistic Me too!
I love Rose! She was such an original person. So strong
"genetic accident" ME
edit: just finished the video, its so sad and scary to think about how mentally disabled people were treated in the past. im autistic and have adhd, i most likely wouldnt have been lobotomised in the 30s but i probably couldve been institutionalised. im so grateful i live in a time when so much progress has been made, but we still have a long way to go.
I have ADHD too, as well as severe mental health issues and many disabling physical issues. I dread to think what would have happened to me if I were alive back then. We definitely have a long way to go. I wish you all the best ❤️
This is what frustrates me when people complain about the increasing diagnosis rates of things like autism and ADHD like it's a sign that society's getting worse. It's not a modern phenomenon, they were just hidden away and no one tried to understand them. It's a sign society is improving because we at least talk about it now.
There's still a long way to go before we are completely considered 100% part of society it upsets me greatly when I see others just so judgemental somebody who's just a little bit different it doesn't matter if it's a mental disability just being a little eccentric or even the lgbtq society it's terrible and I wish there was more acceptance and kindness in the world
This is such a horrific story but it’s important and needs to be told. Thank you for sharing Jessica.
I do not believe in a literal Hell. But if anyone deserves to go to one, "doctor" Freeman is the one.
Followed very closely by Joe Kennedy and those like him.
This made me cry, I knew very vaguely about her being lobotomized but this is an absolute horror story. I'm so glad that at least some good was able to come of what happened but she never should have been put through it.
Lizard the Wizard 2020 horror stories. ELECTRIC Shock THERAPY this is benig prescribed and patients se ctioned so that they have to have it. Then brain damaged are too ill to make a claim against The abusing psychiatrists
Anybody who believes the fairy tale of the Kennedy’s needs to take a history class.
Which fairy tale exactly?
@boneless Kathleen wasn’t pushed away because she married a non Catholic. Her father and her siblings were supportive. Rose had a problem with her planning to marry a man who was still married. She got over her first husband being Protestant before he was killed.
I read The Kennedy Women in the the 1990's and I remember getting so angry when reading about Rosemary Kennedy. She really got the short end of the stick.
This reminds me of disappointments rooms where families often of some renown would lock mentally or physically disabled children away from sight. Often in attics.
Horrific.
so early wow. and it's so sad- I LIVE in america and had never heard of rosemary kennedy before. i had heard idk "rumours" that there was a mentally ill sibling, but that was the extent. thank you for bringing more awareness and ending the stigma!
This is so sad :'( she deserved dignity and respect and instead was abandoned. May she rest in peace.
Thank you for this video. As a young child I was quite interested in JFK and his family. I read a biography about the family and asked my dad about the one sister who was just not mentioned much. My dad told me a doctor did a questionable surgery and it made her very ill. I was about 8, and we talked about mental health. Now I wonder how he knew this and he knew more he wouldn't talk about. This video helped fill in the gaps.
Your dad likely knew because the story of Rosemary Kennedy has been a sort of "open secret" for many decades.
I was literally in tears at the end. And tears are still running down my face as I am typing this. It breaks my heart that while a lot of things have changed, at the same time there are so many changes that still need to be made....
Amazing video! I really liked how you talked about how much Rosemary inspired to rest of her family, because a lot of other videos and articles don’t talk about it. And that’s a pivotal part of her story, that shouldn’t be forgotten about
I'm so sad that this happened to her, but so grateful for the influence her and her family's experiences had on the world we live in today. Our understanding of the complexities of physical and mental difference and difficulties is still so rapidly changing and we need doctors and other professionals to take the lead from patients and their families and look at their lives as a whole. I wonder how different our world and medical systems would be if only people had the time and space to listen to everything and then make a decision.
Nelly luckett sadly not enough influence in America ECT is being given to children with ADHD and here in UK some hospital trusts are using the barbaric practice, and with no clinical trials... on the rise especially for women’s over 55
Wholeheartedly agree, one of my uncles was starved of oxygen during birth and the thought of him going through all that is horrifying. We're in the UK and he lived at home for as long as possible, and now is in a wonderful care home where he has a great social life, friends, daily activities, and is living his best life. He can walk better, dance (of sorts), and communicate. It's a home from home and we're so grateful for the love and care he receives daily.
Pebbles Miller ECT should only be used in extreme circumstances where in it is a last resort (ie in depression when all other treatments have bit been working) but only with patient consent. They should understand that results aren’t permanent ect. The fact it is legal to preform ECT in Britain without patient consent is horrific
as an autistic person who is obsessed with history, its always horrifying to imagine the suffering so many people have to endure before prominent people decide it's time to do something about it
This is the saddest thing I’ve ever watched. Although I knew of Rose Kennedy being hidden away and I’d heard that she had a lobotomy; I didn’t know the story of her birth and horrors of being awake during a surgery. It’s so sad how she was treated, when all she ever wanted was to be with her family. Thank you for doing such an amazing job on this video Jessica.
as an autistic Dyspraxic and epileptic person this was a hard watch. Antoher interesting person to profile would be racing driver of the 1950s Archie Scott-Brown, who was born disabled after his mother got measlels while she was pregnant, at least once in his racing career other driver protested his entry and wins on the grouds of his disabilities
This makes me grateful for how my great-grandparents and grandparents viewed disabilities. I know both of my grandparents had siblings with intellectual disabilities, but they were just seen as needing extra help so that they can contribute to society. In fact, my grandmother's brother was perfectly able and happy to mow lawns, but was unable to fix lawnmowers. When he walked into the motor shop to try to get the parts to fix his lawnmower, my grandfather recognized this and he offered to fix it for him (for free on his own time). Later, he happened to meet my grandmother and, when she realized that she was the man who worked at the shop her brother told her about, she started to fall for him. For reference, my grandfather's oldest sibling was born in 1900, so this would have overlapped in time with the events in this video.
In the late 1950s, my grandparents ended up having a very disabled daughter (her mind apparently didn't progress much past early toddlerhood). They hated the idea of sending her to an institution, but they realized they needed some more expertise. The institution was nice... for an institution, but my grandmother hated that it felt like a hospital and not a home. She worked with other families in similar situations to found a non-profit which buys accessible houses and pays for carers to stay there and allow people, who otherwise may have only been able to live in an institutional setting, to live in somewhere that feels like home with people who feel like family for long after their primary caregivers may have passed away.
Visiting my aunt has always been an interesting experience as the residents who live with her all think they are much younger than they are. Middle aged women will insist they are 5 or 8 years old, for example, and act accordingly. Importantly, all the residents seem happy, seem to form family bonds with each other, and pursue ways to be creative and productive as their abilities allow and they enjoy.
This was heartbreaking. I’m in tears. I was aware of Rosemary Kennedy, but not of the circumstances of her birth injury nor the fact that the doctor who pushed for and performed the lobotomy was completely unqualified. Thank you for this enlightening story. Telling it is important to the progress of society toward better understanding and treatment of ALL people.
I adore the historical profiles you do. You always cover the subjects with such thoughtfulness, wit, and respect.
My mom was a special Ed teacher (I don't know how it is known as in English) and I went to the same middle school she worked at, so I'd spend my free time helping her in her class, and since I can remember I've been around people with disabilities. Cognitive, physical or psychosocial, and just being there taught me so much. It really hurts to listen to stories like this, when you know that the disabilities someone has aren't all they are.
i love the historical profiles series!! thank you jessica for the education!!!!!!!
I have a mental illness I've been to the hospital several times and knowing how people like me have been treated in the past is horrific
For some reason, I couldn't help thinking of the doctor known as James Barry (1789-1865). I say "known as" because it wasn't until after Dr. Barry died that it was ever discovered that "he" was female - born Margaret Ann Bulkley, she was disguised as a boy, successfully trained as a doctor (serving either the army or navy?), is said to have performed the first successful Caesarean section (i.e. where both mother and child lived), and it was only when she died and they came to examine her body that somebody (a woman, as it happened) pointed out that Dr. Barry was female, and had given birth at least once! There is a bit about Margaret/James in The QI Book of the Dead, and she just struck me as a fascinating personality that you might be able to find something out about.
According to the research I’ve done, James Barry was actually a trans man and actually did like being referred to as he
@@fionatastic0.070 Yeah, we can never know for sure how James Barry identified, but all the signs point that he was a trans man. He became very well respected, and had he wanted to come out as a woman, he could possibly have been the source of some great changes. But he didn't want that, he just wanted to live his life as a man, which he did. In fact, his body was examined completely against his will. Had he had his way, no one would ever have known.
This is why it makes me angry people are so keen to claim James Barry was a woman. Historically, there was pretty much no way for trans people to transition and live as their true selves, yet somehow he did it. In my eyes that's worthy of huge respect. Even if he was 'really a woman,' he still wanted to be remembered as a man anyway.
This video was quite difficult for me to watch at times, but I'm so grateful to you for making it. I think the world needs to hear about more people like Rosemary Kennedy. Thank you for telling me about her.
I hope you're okay ❤️ its a difficult subject to tackle but so very important
I’m autistic and have ADHD, although I was diagnosed only at the age of 18 but have been through multiple mental health professionals throughout my life, but every time any of them said something my abusive mother didn’t want to hear, she would make me change therapists or psychiatrists. My whole life I’ve been abused for my autistic traits, my mother even accused me of being “possessed” during a meltdown and took me to see a “medium” when I was 12, she threatened to send me away multiple times (and she would have if she didn’t feel the need to have me close to control me), I’m 19 now and have C-PTSD. I feel very connected to stories such as Rosemary’s, because I’m sure if I had been born a century (or a few decades) earlier, I would definitely have been lobotomised too, what she went through was a true horror story
A terrible and unfortunately familiar story. I hope you are feeling better these days!
This comes out the day that Canada and Ontario reveals the horrors happening in Ontario care homes right now. Amazing video but man, it feels like it is hitting close to home
I live about fifteen minutes from Jefferson, WI. Sait Coletta's is still standing although it's up for sale. Beautiful grounds. You can still see the little cottage she lived in. It's truly beautiful if that's any consolation to this awful story. Most people from nearby Chicago come up here for vacations to local small towns.
This was such an important video! I had only heard of lobotomy in passing and although the Kennedys were (and probably still are) not really on my radar, telling her story story of the stigma and prejudice that led to things such as lobotomy even being thinkable, let alone actually accepted and feasible, was a wonderful way to both honour the memory of this poor woman and to spread the knowledge. When you mentioned that she effectively died only such a short time ago... perhaps some things changed much too late, and some simply not yet enough.
I work at St Coletta’s of Wisconsin. Her house is still there and still in amazing condition.
I gave my tv set away 1994 besides other reasons because of advertising. But... your sponsor section is divine :-) I hope you are as well as you look! love Thomas
This made me cry. Poor Rosemary. Things could have been so different if she could have just stayed in the UK. What an angel :(
She was AWAKE DURING IT OMG . This is so so barbaric and cruel her parents and this doctor should have been imprisoned .
Jessica I have only just found this channel and video. Thank you for being a champion of disabled. I have had rheumatoid arhritis, Endometriosis and many other conditions most of my life. On the outside I dont look ill and as I'm still quite young I am judged for using disabled bays etc. I am in pain daily you never know what another is suffering please be kind. Thanks again xx
The compassionate way that Jessica speaks about Rosemary and later, the Kennedy family's advocacy for people with disability was truly incredible. The nuance of the issue and all of the factors in play are introduced with such a light touch.
Thank you for taking the time to educate all of us. This video has deeply affected me ❤️
This reminds me of when they'd diagnose ladies with hysteria.
Please tell me something happened to "Dr" Freeman
This video brings up an issue that is still around today, in various guises. That is the idea that a child that is not behaving in a 'socially acceptable manner' somehow brings dishonour or disrespect down on the family. We still live in a patriarchal society where the males still overwhelming make the rules that negatively impact on anyone who is not white, male, and conservative. Love your videos.
Aaa so excited for this one. Such an important story that people -even here in Massachusetts where every school teaches about the Kennedys- don’t know
A lot of them do know, but have a donkey tattooed on their rear ends, and God forbid they should imply the Kennedys are less than perfect. Bet they didn't say much if anything about Chappaquiddick & and dear old Teddy getting away with the manslaughter of Mary Jo Kopechne either. That SOB couldn't be bothered to stop by a house within easy view of the bridge so help could have been called. She SUFFOCATED to death. The vehicle overturned and she had managed to find an airpocket in the car's foot well. By the time a scuba diver arrived later the day after that party, her position was such that her head and shoulders were above water.
I remember reading the Howard Dully‘s book about his own lobotomy and I was crying. I can‘t imagine that it‘s all was hapening just several decades ago.
I always want to hug Rosemary Kennedy, who got so screwed over, and deserved SO much better. ♥️
Having mental illnesses and studying to be a mental health nurse, it is truly heartbreaking and fills me with so much rage and sadness to know people were treated so awfully.
Thank you for sharing this story 💜
Saw "What Happened to Rosemary Kennedy" pop up and immediately thought "absolutely nothing good" 🥺😥
Thank you so much for covering this. I could barely watch the whole thing. I can't imagine researching, writing a script, and filming it. You are an amazing person.
Reading these comments is very emotional. Almost all of my family has had severe mental health issues. Most have died due to it. Several had lobotomies. It’s easy to feel like society still hates those of us who struggle with these disabilities. It’s so comforting to read people’s words of kindness here.
Thank you for making this video; I’ve never really heard many people talk about Rose and how ignorance of society & the time era honestly tarnished her life, but how impactful her story was. ❤️❤️❤️❤️
Whenever I watch one of your history videos I find myself transfixed and transported to another world , you are bloody brilliant Jessica , I am not ashamed to say that i actually teared up whilst watching this video.
Thank you so much for this content ☺️
Thank you for doing this video. I was also born into a prominent family and have seen many family members with mental health problems hide from the public like my dad cousin and myself. Although none blames me for my head injury I can't go to most family functions. This is something people must never forget
My twin brother had a lobotomy when we were 2 and I didn't know that I was a twin until I got told by my grandmother at age 35 , I discovered that he was still alive in a state institution and got custody of him. update: he passed away yesterday of Covid-19 never knowing that I was his brother 😟😟😟
Oh wow.
So sorry for your loss.
@@denicesanders4586 Thank you
@@jonstuart8351 my pleasure.
I am so sorry , what a loss. A tragic tale but this was a persons life and now your story too. Devastating to read
As a huge fan of studying the Kennedys my immediate reaction to seeing this notification was “oh no.“
Have you ever heard of Temple Grandin? She's an amazing woman that's done so much for the autistic community, as well as animal rights.
Or maybe the HBO much lauded movie about her?
She's unfortunately very problematic- likes ABA and thinks 'lower functioning' autistics should be eliminated through eugenics.
I honestly cried watching this: while it's great that so much visibility and strides forward came of what happened...my God, she was only 23. Rosemary Kennedy deserved so much more than what she got, and I hope Dr. Freeman is burning in Hell for what he did to her and everyone else he tortured.
I'm so glad that you've made a video about this, one of my degrees is in History and it's shocking how little information people retain or seek out. Unrelated your hair and dress in this video are STUNNING (somehow more than usual lol)
I had learning disabilities and worked hard. Later when I was an adult I IQ tests done for help in college. I scored high average on one test and above average bright on the other one. Thank God my parents were encouraging me, and didn't put me in an institution, or get me a lobotomy. I have mental illness, and learning disabilities, but I am still an important person in society and definitely in my family. I'm blessed to have 2 children who are now grown, and 3 grandchildren. I have a hard fought for beautiful life. Thank you for this post.
Amazing. You are a star in a sometimes dark world. Keep up the brightness 🙂
I'd like to see an historical profile on Elizabeth Blackwell, Rosalind Franklin, and/or Sacagawea
all three amazing women whose lives/stories were suppressed by the patriarchy
This is so sad, I was never really aware of any of her history to the degree you spoke about it here. I remember in school solely learning about JFK, RFK and their political work and ultimate fates. I think her history was an excellent topic and thank you for the educational video.
Jessy, your version of
Honey-Fitz could be Honey-Foz
when i act out, my mom tells me that i’m “crazy” and should undergo this procedure this rosemary… yikes. i’m 22 this year and just now realizing all the emotional and psychological abuse i’m still undergoing.
The one dislike is the ghost of that lobotomy "doctor."
Thank you for sharing Rosemary's story, I actually didn't know most of this. I am heartbroken at her treatment but so grateful to her family for creating spaces and laws to help disabled people. We still have a long way to go (it seems not much has been done since then!) but the programs the Kennedy family began have improved so many lives.
The podcast “Medical Mysteries” just did a three part series on mental healthcare if anyone is interested. It’s very interesting and the sound mixing is pretty good.
Joseph Kennedy was a narcissistic monster who wanted nothing more than to preserve the legacy of his name even if it meant killing the soul of his first born daughter. Thank you Jessica for this video it means a lot to disabled and mentally ill people and reminds us we still have a long way to go to destigmatize mentally disabled or ill people.
I'm so happy this came out during my break from online class. I love your videos!!!
Rose Kennedy was the case study used to introduce psychosurgery to our psychology class. Lobotomies are terrifying, particularly trans-orbital (ice-pick like instrument behind the eyes). Very interesting video, and I loved the section talking about how Rosemary affected the Kennedys as people
This is one of the saddest stories I can think of.
This is why I keep trying to raise awareness about the gaps our current health care has. As a Canadian, diagnosed with ADHD (possibly autism spectrum as well) at 19, there are little to no supports for me outside of university disability services. The only programs for understanding sensory needs, are for parents of autistic kids who are under the age of 4, and there are things for ADHD in school age kids, but nothing for adults, nothing for parents of teens and young adults, and I can't find a single thing about what I can do for myself, other than what's on RUclips. I recently got diagnosed with POTS at a clinic specializing in chronic conditions and they have an occupational therapist that has been my only help along with an advisor at university, for navigating the challenges I face in every day life. But if I didn't have chronic fatigue, I would have never found an occupational therapist, let alone for free. I'm glad I live close enough to that clinic as there are only 3-5 of them in Canada, I'm not sure. But what about everyone else? What about my friends who have realized they have challenges beyond their control, what about those who self medicate and end up making things harder, and what about those who can't afford the $1500-$2000 tests for learning disabilities and and neurodiversity? I'm so glad people aren't as quick to do drastic things. My doctor first tried dietary changes, supplementing vitamins, then natural sleep aids and neurotransmitters. I'm lucky I can afford IVs that really help my symptoms, and I can afford to take my degree slower than everyone else. My dad still has some outdated ideas on mental health and "special needs," but at least he helps me get access to what I need.
My great aunt stayed in an asylum as a kid in the 40s or 50s (probably 40s). No one knows much about her time in it aside from the stuff she would tell my mum and 2 of my aunts. My mum told me that she talked about getting electroshock therapy and potentially a lobotomy (we aren't sure if she was lobotomized herself or not). After my aunt passed away a few years ago, my family and I were going through her things and found a lot of memorabilia of JFK (we assume she had a crush on him - she put his pictures in her family photo albums in its own section).
Fun fact: A version of electroshock therapy is still offered today (electroconvulsive therapy). I met someone who did it while I was in a psych ward after I had a pretty bad episode with my mental disorders in response to my aunt's death (ironic). She had over 40 sessions with no symptom relief and gained short term memory loss.
I can understand the concept of some of the treatments That were used prior to modern mental health care but unfortunately doctors really didn't have enough knowledge to treat mental disorders effectively (honestly, we barely can do it now.....). I am curious about how many people who had what would've been labeled as a successful lobotomy actually ended up with cluster b personality disorder traits as a result. I have Borderline Personality Disorder (1 of 4 types of cluster b personality disorders) and the frontal lobe not functioning correctly is a major part of the disorder.
Raven Black thank you for this comment. My husband had ECT and has terrible memory and function loss
As a person with an intellectually-disabled aunt, I found your video so tasteful, shining a light on what is still, to many, a very sensitive topic. Thank you.