GOOD news, BAD news: Geshelli J2 DAC and new AK4499EX version
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- Опубликовано: 27 июл 2024
- Buy the Geshelli J2 DAC here: bit.ly/J2SAKM
A review of the Geshelli Labs J2 DAC range including the regular J2 DAC with ESS and AKM chips, the upgrade socketed version (J2S) with the Sparkos Labs SS3602 op-amps installed, and the brand new AK4499 version with AKM's new flagship dual-chip DAC system. Includes comparisons between Geshelli J2 vs J2, Geshelli J2S vs EverSolo DAC-Z6, and Geshelli J2S vs Schiit Bifrost 2.
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00:00 Introduction
01:13 Glamour video
03:07 Explaining the many options
06:01 Op-amp upgrade options
09:41 AK4499 version details
12:15 Device tour
15:14 Sound quality
19:59 J2 AKM vs EverSolo DAC-Z6
22:24 Upgraded op-amp sound
26:18 J2 AKM Sparkos vs DAC-Z6
29:25 J2 AK4499
31:06 J2 AK4493 vs AK4499
35:51 J2 AK4499 vs Schiit Bifrost 2
38:31 Final conclusions
#audiophile #audioreview #dac 
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Just to clarify, the AK4499 being used in the J2 is the AK4499EX. Apologies for not specifying the "EX" bit in the video.
You should try it with different op amps see the difference.
I did.
Hi, have you tried Burson V6 Vivid?
Yes, but it doesn't fit in the case without modification. To my ears, it was a downgrade from the Sparkos because it brings a slightly unnatural crispness to the treble
Thankfully i was able to ammend my J2S order to include the AK4499, whew!
I already purchased a op amp chip separately from Sparkos. 😊
Thank you for taking us on this journey. I appreciate the clear description of options and performance.
My pleasure. I'm glad it was helpful
So, I was a little put off when you called my Saber J2 Dac nothing special. I thought my system sounded great.
Based on this video I upgraded to the J2 4499ex. I installed it this evening. I have to say it was an emotional experience. I had no idea what a really good dac can do. All my music sounds better and new regardless of recording quality.
Thank you for showing me the light
I'm so glad you were able to push past the cognitive dissonance of me saying what you had was just ok. Some people would have simply stopped the video and abused me (inwardly or outwardly). Instead, you've tried for yourself and been rewarded and that's brilliant news! Thanks so much for sharing your experiences. I'm thrilled to hear! 🎉🎉
Wow! You always commit to thorough and fair reviews. This was above and beyond. I now understand what I’m looking for and what to expect. Thanks.
I'm so glad it was helpful! 🙂
Thanks for not jumping blindly on the hype train.
I never do. If anything, hype makes me sceptical (but I'm willing to be excited if it's really that good)
This whole thing about upgrading the analog section etc seems like nonsense to me. Most circuitry requires specific attention to detail and component selection, layout, etc built up to an aggregate solution. “Plug-In” options seem like they’d have the potential to make a non-optimal solution, although the final choice of op amps and dac chips may suit your sonic palette , but might not be the best overall design using those chips. A good marketing gimmick, taking pressure off of the manufacturer to commit to a particular favorable dac solution for the enthusiast, and attempt to justify it in the marketing blurbs. I don’t have experience with every dac out there, or a J2 for that but I’d be willing to bet that any J2 regardless of configuration has adequate competition around the same price level. I don’t think it’s worlds above everything else in its price class as the hype suggests. Geshelli also appeals to the OCD types that care so much about what a box looks like or how made or how they’re routing the wires going to or from the thing etc.
Most op-amps operate within a fairly similar range of parameters so swapping them around isn't a big deal for the circuit (as I understand it). To your point about optimising the circuits, that's actually what they are offering here. The DAC is at its best with the SS3602, but also at its most expensive. If you look at the ranges from many companies, the upgrades from one model to the next are often a different DAC chip with higher specs and/or a different set of op-amps in the output stage. Those are two of the three key elements in the sound of any DAC (the third being the power supply). What companies tend to do is balance performance and cost at each level by selecting the combination of chips that deliver what they need at the price they want. Geshelli are just opening this opportunity up to the consumer which is pretty cool, I think.
@@PassionforSound My point was just make good designs and forget about it .. why? because that’s really what most people are after anyway is the best possible dac at their price point. .. by doing what they’re doing, it’s just a marketing ploy to get more market share as they’re just catering to a bunch of people who think that they have options to do a custom dac by making choices, which on some level is true, but it’s really about more company money, convenience isn’t free, and people have to “get what they want” in the “price they can afford” anyway. Not you, you just seem to be innocent and honest to a fault, but there are other reviewers out here that talk about this stuff as if they’re really getting a piece of the pie, or maybe that they’re hungry for a piece of the pie; that may be more accurate. ultimately, they’re all dacs at a given price and there’s nothing extra special about them, except for people who like to complicate or “search” for experiences by tinkering and becoming emotionally submerged in the product by “personalizing” it. but I guess in the end, that’s what happens in hobbies, for they do call listening to music a hobby.
Great work Lachlan. Good to see AKM ‘back in the game’ with the 4499.
Glad you liked it! Yes, can't wait to see where else the 4499 might show up.
Been waiting for this one since the first tease, well worth the wait. Brilliant work, everything i wanted to know and more!
So glad I hit all the right notes 🎶!
Really good, thorough, clear and helpful review (survey). Thank you Lachlan.
My pleasure! Glad it was helpful
I pulled the trigger and ordered it with ak499 without the up amps. I figured i will upgrade in a month.
How do you like it?
Great video. Scared by thr total duration at first, but full review journey was well worth it! Not sure how easy it is to get these products in Europe but I love what this family business stands for... So I might go for this AKM 4499 one!
Thanks for sticking with it - there was lots of ground to cover! The AK4499EX version is definitely worth trying to get your hands on 🙂
Thanks for your very thorough review. Very helpful in making a decision.
My pleasure! I'm glad it was helpful
Thank you for this excellent review. Coincidentally, I recently sent my J2 with AKM 4493, Ti Op Amps, and USB to Geshelli to be upgraded to the socketed J2S board with AKM 4499EX, Sparkos SS3602 Op Amps on the balanced outputs, and USB. The fully upgraded unit arrived just 3 days before writing this. I wasn't expecting much of a difference, but I was pleasantly surprised. Straight away on my system I noticed more vivid imaging throughout, better clarity and separation in the midrange, and "faster," punchier low frequencies with improved resolution. Wave Theory asserts in his review that the Sparkos SS3602 Op Amps make a greater difference on the J2's balanced outputs (all I use) than the single ended outputs, so consider that for whatever it's worth. Anyway, no buyer's remorse here. The improvement was well worth the cost, and I agree this configuration elevates the J2 into another performance category.
So glad you're enjoying the upgrade! Thanks for sharing your experience. 🙂
Go the J2S AK4499 with the sparkos opamps 👍 I must be old school but I love the wooden cases. Thanks for these insights Lachlan.
My pleasure!
So we'll done. Thanks! I just went to the Geshelli Labs site, and it is available now. This version is on my short list!
Fantastic! Glad I could help. Hope your decision making goes smoothly.
@@PassionforSound It did. I ordered one with the Sparkos on the single end only, and the 4499/4491. I also included a USB just in case I need it later. I think a decent DAC is the weakest link in my audio chain. I'm more curious than anything since half of the audio population says there is no difference in sound between various electronics. But I'll at least know I have as good as I'll ever want to afford in a DAC...plus it'll look nice in my rack! I like their overall presentation and business.
Nice one! I hope you love it and get to hear for yourself that the different devices do all make a noticeable difference.
Definitely bad news for the purchases I have already made. Haha! I really appreciate your honest appraisal. The people that waited for the 4499 sound like they will be rewarded! Excellent to hear that my Bifrost was always a good investment.
The 4493 is still a great DAC at the price - I think it just got a little over-hyped. The 4499EX version is brilliant though and right up there with the BF2 (which was and is a great investment!) 🙂
Great video showing the versitility of these fantastic DAC options from Geshelli
I'm glad you liked it!
Hi Lachlan, Thanks for the honest review.
thank you for an outstanding & comprehensive review.
My pleasure!
Great video. Cleared up a lot of questions I had.
So glad I could help!
Fantastic video. For someone looking at external DAC for the first time, this video is fantastic.
I'm so glad it was helpful! Thanks for letting me know. 🙂🙂
Love your reviews! It would be great if you could do a video on some recommended Dacs and amps and different price tiers
Take a look at the link in the description to the Passion for Sound Recommends database 🙂
Thanks for the reminder of battery power.
Hooked up the Wiim Pro Plus to a 12volt cheap rechargeable battery with USB power and the result was worth a smile so thanks.
Tosicka.
Brilliant! Glad I could accidentally help 😁
Just got my loaded out Geshelli J2 socketed with Sparkos, AKM4499EX and Amanero USB in a Wenge and Zebra wood case. The sound just absolutely dropped my jaw! I am feeding a Burson Funk with Sparkos Opamps; my headphones just seem to disappear on my head and there is nothing but music. It is an absolutely smashing value!
Yay! I'm so glad to hear that you're so impressed. That's great news. Happy listening.
@@PassionforSound that’s coming from RME ADI-2 FS with the AKM chips; Geshelli Team absolutely knocked it out of the park!
Yep. The better chip plus the better op-amps all add up to an outstanding device!
Just so people know, at wholesale (Digikey) an AKM4493 is about $9. the AKM4499 is about $56. And you have to add in the design work necessary by Geshelli to use that new chip effectively, getting a new PCB designed, made, and shipped, tested and tweaked. Given the cost differential, what they are charging for the J2 fully decked out seems reasonable.
Yes, the parts' cost is peanuts compared to the time spent designing and developing both the product and its production. It's one thing to build a handful of devices, it's another to begin manufacturing.
And then add the 4191EQ 😁
@@geshellilabs4411 Totally stoked! Looking forward to it arriving!
Is that price for the old AK4499 or the new AK4499EX? (Or is it the same 4499 with the 4191 added in?)
@@PassionforSound The price for the AKM 4499EX on Digikey today shows at $54.99 and the AKM 4191EQ is $10.60. $65.59 in total. In bulk, a bit less per of course. - So you factor in profit, development, manufacturing, their 3rd party engineer testing, etc.
Do wish they had built in galvanic isolation... But as I said before... Perhaps, for most, it isn't necessary. Waiting patiently!
It’s funny that I’m seeing this review today as I’m going to a demonstration of the 4499 on Sunday. I’ll have plenty of questions for the representative. Thanks
Perfect! If you learn anything interesting or exciting, please come back and share if you can. 🙂
I thought your review was fair through, and direct. I appreciate you telling like you see or hear it.
Glad I could be helpful! 🙂
Thanks for reviewing these all at once! I've been window shopping and this was a lot of help, especially that 4499 and even mentioning CAM's comparison of the J2 to the Ares and disputing that, it helps put it in perspective
Glad it was helpful. For the record, I'd probably choose the J2 over the Ares as well, but that's more because I think the Ares has a few flaws rather than the J2 being way better than anything else at a similar price.
Great video, it was helpful for me. I just completed my own Bifrost 2 (OG) vs J2S 4499EX SS3602 shootout. LPS used on the J2S. RCA outputs, Coax inputs, Speakers only. Cool DAC from Geshelli but I think the Bifrost 2 is still a step above. The BF2 has proper depth in the soundstage to create that 3D feeling, whereas the J2S only has a small taste of that. I believe that is one of the most important aspects of sound quality. Also a bit of extra heft & extension in the bass percieved on the BF2, at the cost of a little bit of control vs the J2S but well worth it. The extremely wide soundstage on the J2S was nice & I even preferred the J2S on one my speakers. So both good DAC's and as always, system dependant.
Thanks for sharing this! I completely agree.
I'm with you that soundstage depth and layering are key when it comes to the ideal sonic experience. There are many people who focus more on width and details on the music, and that's where the J2S has its strengths. As you say, different DACs for different setups and preferences. 🙂🙂
Thanks for the honest review. Had the J2S version the Geshelli and played with all the opamp rolling. It's a competent DAC. Sold it because I was anticipating the 4499 version and what it could do. Great platform for versatility for sure. After I scratched my itch, I found I still preferred the more organic, layered sound stage of the Ares 12 that I owned. There are levels to this game.
Would you say the Ares 12th gen has as good bass as the J2 AKM 4499?
@@rosswarren436 Haven’t tried the 4499 version - not sure it’s generally available yet. I meant scratch my itch on how much opamp rolling can change the sound.
The 4499 will be available to order in the next week or so (during the first or second week of September).
As for the bass, the AK4499 should produce a tighter, more controlled, but no less present bass compared to the Ares. That said, I've not compared directly so that's speculation based on separate experiences.
@@User_not_found_403thanks for the clarification. My nephew has the J2 AKM 4493 version in a headphone stack and loves it. Not sure which op-amps he went with.
I've been sitting on the fence deciding which DAC I'll buy for my living room system (in the middle of remodeling that room so it will be a few more months) but nice to know that a 4499 version with the better Sparkos op-amps is in the Schiit 2/64 Bifrost range of sonic quality with the better soundstage and depth. My refurbished/upgraded vintage Carver gear does not have XLR inputs, so I could save some money by not upgrading the op-amps in that section. Might be a definite contender. If it can come close to an Ares 12th edition or even the Gustard R26, both of which are considerably more expensive, then all the better for it.
@@rosswarren436The Bifrost 2/64’s SE outputs are supposed to be extremely close or equal in quality to its bal. outputs, just fyi.
Another excellent review!
Glad you liked it 🙂
Excellent review, as always. I know you reviewed the Gustard R26 DAC; how about a review of the A26 with the 449EX dual chips?
I'd love to try that, but I don't have access to a distributor and had to buy the R26. I can't afford to buy all the products that I would like to review
Still patiently waiting... Picked up a Gustard P26 while waiting... I like it so much better than the Freya S. Plus, I was able to drop two Sparkos SS2590 dual pro dip8's into the P26.
Also.... In researching the Intona 3.0, I decided to pick one up just for piece of mind. This should solve the galvanic isolation. It also pretty much regens and puts bit perfect data into your DAC..
Everything is coming together for my next level.
Super clear and informative. Thank you!
My pleasure!
I like how honest you are 👍
Thank you. That's always a goal
Extraordinarily well done review. You compared and contrasted all of the options and made it understandable. I have the base J2 AKM and think it is better than the inboard dacs in my CD player and streamer. So, the interesting question for me is where can I get the best bang for the next $500 if I were to spend it. Something I will have to think about. Thank you.
Glad you liked the review! I hope you can find the best place to invest your next $500 🙂
Preciate you really explaining this
My pleasure!
Those wood cases with the aluminium connectors look amazing. Beautiful design by Geshelli labs. Also very interested to see what you think about the Arya organic. Personally I think they're probably the best headphone under the 2K price point.
I agree that it's a beautiful design. The Arya Organic review is coming soon and they are definitely going to be some tough competition for other brands
lovely review
I'm glad you liked it
Haven't heard a Geshelli DAC yet... but I can 100% endorse the Archel 3 Pro Amp as the best amp under $1K. Amazing value
The A3 Pro is a beast. I think the DAC is in some stronger competition at each price level, but the AK4499EX version is right up there with the very best at the same price.
Thank you for your reviews, I always learn something and I trust your opinion. BTW, is there any chance you will be doing a review of the Questyle CMA 15 dac amp combo?
Glad you like my approach. I don't currently have any plans for the CMA15, but would love to try more Questyle gear because the M15 dongle is brilliant!
Holy Cow!! I have to post this... My Intona 7055-D came today and it is the single most beneficial upgrade I made to my system. Galvanic isolation and bit perfect IS a thing. The layers... The accuracy and better separation. The lows have more resolution and are deep and rich sounding. voices are really real...nuanced, The highs are crisper but not harsh. This is with the current DAC, the Aune X8 XVIII with the SS2590 dual pro Dip8 op-amp. Wireworld Starlight 8 USB cables, XP2 LPS + Supercapacitor bank...
I am really looking forward to the Geshelli J2 now more than ever... But this INTONA is NO JOKE
Glad you're loving it!
@@PassionforSound Well, truthfully, not loving the price of it...
When you consider the price tag, J2, Intona - with the wireworld cables, LPS, supercap and those cables. I should have bought the Gustard A26.
Dual AKM4499EX chips and a single AKM4191EQ.... Internal linear supply, full 32bit 768 support. Full FPGA, and clock synthesizer
Can't beat that for a Delta Sigma..
My DAC components , all together are in total just over $1.8K USD.
Thanks for this. Just shopping the site, it was really baffling.
My pleasure. It can be tricky, but it's worth taking the time to find the right one because each option has its own benefits. 🙂
Lachlan, thank you for taking these Geshelli DACs on - there are a lot of permutations. I *definitely* like a 50W 12V linear power supply. A 25W will be very good, as well. With a linear power supply, in my opinion the layering and the soundstage are improved. I like this better than my Ares II.
The J2 Socketed I think is a big increase in sound quality. I have installed the dual mono Sparkos SS2590 module, in the single ended RCA socket. This is something that for my in my speaker system that is significantly better than the Bifrost 2/64 and Ares II with 12th Anniversary firmware. I am using an LPS and the big Sparkos.
The Bifrost 2 was my first DAC, and I like it. I then got an Ares II, and I definitely prefer it to the Bifrost 2. I then got the J2 AKM 4493, and once I put an LPS on it - it is better than both the Bifrost 2 an Ares II at *their* strengths.
I tried a 50w LPS and iFi Power X power supply. I prefer the iFi PS.
What lps you using?
@@nandorblue I have not tried that power supply. If you are able to do a small DIY project, there is a DC filter/capacitor bank called Noise Nuke, that can improve any PS, but switch mode power supplies, in particular.
Glad you're enjoying the J2, Neil. Adding the Sparkos pro op-amps must have been a squeeze!
I tried the iFi Power X with my Zen Stream and I prefer the Pyramid PS8KX more. The sound had less glare and more at ease. The Pyramid cost about $50 on Amazon and, at least on that application, the iFi Power X could not beat the it. Maybe the Power Elite migh be better, but I don’t want to spend $300 to find out.
Another great video, very through, thank you
I'm glad you liked it! 🙂🙂
Great honest revieuw. Like to know you’re reference gear right now….
My standard chain is PC running Jcat LAN and USB cards feeding either direct to Chord M-Scaler and TT2 or via Singxer SU-6 (depending on needs). From there, I'm mostly using the Cen.Grand Silver Fox headphone amp at the moment and the Burson Soloist GT feeding Burson Timekeeper GTs for speakers.
I have an unsocketed J2 with an AKM chip in a wooden case (blood wood). When I got it the socketed version wasn't around, but I think that the woodwork then was of higher quality - a very competent family member of Geshelli was making these IIRC - but not anymore. That aside, the main two reasons for me to get this DAC was that I like supporting innovative family companies like Geshelli Labs. Second is that a wooden J2 is cute as it can be - and that is very hard for another DAC to beat.
We haven't changed wood suppliers, and Grandpa Joe is still making the cases. Nothing has changed in the woodshop
@@geshellilabs4411 alright, thanks. My grandfather was a woodworker too. Good to know yours is still in the business - I assumed that he retired because my J2 casing looks absolutely flawless - I guess that I was extra lucky.
@alphaniner3770 The case shown was made by Joe and then sent off to Chris O"Neill for hand carving. He is well known in the community for his custom one of a kind carvings. That does change the case structure and look somewhat.
@@geshellilabs4411 the one showed here is a custom case indeed. Underneath is what looks like cork - for damping I guess. I did not notice that at first, and took it for inferior wood - sorry - I guess it was a bit unfortunate that Lachlan didn't comment on it - perhaps understandably because there was already a lot to cover.
Also I somehow got the idea that the cases with the dovetail construction weren't made anymore (I really like this construction), after the simplified cases were introduced. But I was wrong again, and in fact both versions are available now. That's good news, choice is always good.
Yes, there was a lot to cover so the cork base (which is really cool!) didn't get a mention
Excellent, detailed review, especially for the modularity of J2. With that being said, I wouldn't buy either the J2 or Z6 because I don't listen to headphones. For me, I'm using Qobuz on a Rotel A11 Tribute with the KEF LS50 Meta. As neither DAC has a streamer, they're of little value to me. Sure, I could use a PC with Audirvana Studio (which works great), but if I'm spending $500 plus, either the Cambridge MXN10 or DMP-A6 would be a better option. I have discovered an interesting configuration after listening to a variety of insightful reviews. I found that by using Audirvana Studio in Kernel Mode, and then connecting via UPNP to a Wiim Mini is jaw-droppingly good. By letting AS do the backend processing in Kernel Mode, the resulting sound is more detailed. Next, I found that connecting to the Mini via UPNP produced a more balanced sound than connecting to the DAC via USB. Finally, I found a couple of reviews (Tharbamar and iiWi) for the SMSL-SU1 that indicated it was the deal of the year for a DAC. Here's my take as I have enough of an audio background to reach a conclusion. The processor in a Windows 10 PC has more processing power than what's inside a DAC/streamer allowing Audirvana to tune their software. By connecting via UPNP, a bit-perfect signal is being sent to the Mini, which in turn is forwarded to the SU1 optically, so it's galvanically isolated. Finally, I have an iFi X-Power 5V supply that can power the SU1; although I did try a number of different 5V sources and couldn't hear a big difference (if any).
Thanks for sharing your setup
You just made me buy a 4499 version with the upgraded opamps
You're welcome 😉
With all that Lachlan has raved about the AKM 4499EX chip, I wonder what that chip could do in the RME ADI-2 DAC. I love the features of the RME (particularly the equalizer and loudness feature), so that could become a spectacular DAC with the 4499EX (+ AK4191) chip.
[Note, the above is edited to include the -EX suffix and the second chip (AK4191) as per Lachlan's statement about the chips used].
That would become a very interesting proposition all of a sudden!
Great content as always, Lachlan! How close would you say the 4499 version is to something like the R26? 10%? 15%?Will probably be pairing one of those with an OTL amp or possibly Archel 3 and Atrium open for the time being.
It's definitely getting close. To me, the R26 is similar to the Yggy OG while the AK4499EX J2 is similar to Bifrost 2/64 so hopefully that provides a degree of insight if you've watched my Bifrost 2/64 review or the comparison video I did with the Bifrost, Yggy, Musician Pegasus and Denafrips Pontus II
This leaves me totally bewildered in amongst the DAC soup avaiable. I ended up going for a Fiio K7 as a daily driver, could we get a performance list - regardless of price and based purely upon performance. And my biggest question is " What DAC do you use/prefer with your BottleHead ?" Very informative as usual, I enjoy the technical insight.
My database is a good source for a performance list in terms of what I recommend at each price level: bit.ly/PFSRecommends
I use the Chord TT2 and M-Scaler as my main DAC, but the Geshelli J2 AK4499EX and Schiit Bifrost 2 would be my two recommended options under $1000 if you want something not so high in price as the Chord stack
Great review of options. Watched numerous YT videos on the J2 - yours is the most comprehensive. Planning to get the AK4499EX with the Sparkos in the RCA only and no USB as my first stand alone DAC for my 2Ch system. Nice that Geshelli provides customers with choices. Do you get a small commission if I order from your link?
Glad I could help and great choice! Yes, the link in the description is an affiliate link so using it will provide a little income back to me. Thank you 🙂
@@PassionforSound Excellent. I like to support the people that provide the best information for each purchase. Your quick reply was also greatly appreciated.
Interested in this. No chapter marker that I saw. I have both the OG ESS and AKM J2s. I I bought the plain cabinets and paid $250 for each. I think they’re both excellent and do a great job. I think the AKM does a better job with bass. Many people use the J2 with a LPS which they feel extends bass even more and adds to the high freq extension. Personally, I tried the LPS and I feel the effect was minimal in the long run. Frankly, I felt there was a bit of a placebo effect.
For some reason, my chapter markers in the description haven't transferred to the timeline, but they're all in the description.
I agree that the statements about the levels of improvement are often a bit overstated IMO. An LPS will deliver a modest improvement to most devices, but is rarely (if ever) transformational.
I just upgraded from the ESS J2 to the AKM 4499 with the Sparkos op amp. It is transformative. I was shocked. It was truly eye opening
amirm from audiosciencereview did some measurements to this DAC and wrote:
"I am sure the J2 sounds good but as objective results go, it is just not keeping up with the competition"
Thank you for wonderful review❤👏 if I didn’t miss that, how does the J2 AK 4499 with Sparkos sounds in combination with A3 pro❓…. cause that is my pick😁🙋♂️
I didn't specifically cover this because there are SO many possible pairings to think about, but both devices are amazing on their own and therefore brilliant together. 🙂🙂
Such an interesting DAC and finally a way to solve one "audiophile" argument: with the same overall design can we actually compare the sound of one DAC chip to another, not one DAC vs another. Comparing DAC chips instead of DAC units removes the effects of differing output circuit and power supply designs in different DACs which affect the sound significantly. So we can actually judge which DAC chip may be better! (Well in the J2's implementation any way 🙂 )
That's a great point! And, on this occasion, the new 4499EX is clearly a nice step forward from the already very good 4493
Not really, as different DAC in theory should have different implementation to sound their best, so using the same implementation doesn't mean much in terms of objective DAC chip performance.
@@shawj valid point. It would be interesting to see just how different (if any) the 2 G's are then and if they are largely the same which DAC that might favour.
Both DAC chips do have a different circuit requirement and operate differently in terms of the number of channels, and the 4499EX requires a separate 4191 chip to do the initial conversion from PCM to a Multibit IIS signal, but the overall approach to the design, power supply, output stages, etc. are the same.
Thanks for this... A day early too! 👍🍻 So, with that - There are two/three elements that need to be considered. 1️⃣ Lachlan mentioned a Linear power supply. But did not mention using one in any testing. So it is safe to say that there wasn't one used. Specifically for the AKM 4499EX against the Bifrost. So this, with the benefits that an LPS offers, are not part of his end results. But this could have easily had an impact in the testing. Giving an edge toward the Geshelli. Perhaps one was used and I didn't catch it being mentioned though.
2️⃣ If a Windows PC was/is used as a source with the USB module. It wasn't mentioned if the Amenaro drivers were installed. These are so important. Other reviewers have posted how much of an impact using the Amenaro drivers have over the Windows standard. The DAC will surely be able to reach it's fullest potential.
3️⃣ - This is also a consideration. Using Equalizer APO and taking full advantage of ASIO drivers and utilizing the -3db trick for digital sources.
So this isn't a critique on the video... That was great, as usual. So, thanks again Lachlan!
Good questions, here are some answers:
1) I didn't include an LPS because that requires extra expense. The video also has too many variables already so only the supplied wall warts were used for testing
2) because I was flipping back and forth between DACs, all devices were fed via SPDIF from the Singxer SU-6 DDC
3) yes, applying a -3db cut might further improve the sound, but I haven't tested
@@PassionforSound Sorry for that weird autocorrect with your name!
Wow Larchan you did such a good job with explaining every incarnation of the J2 DAC. I’m big fan of Sparko’s OpAmps, I have exchanged a SS3602 on my xDuoo XD05 BAL.
I understand that the J2 4499ex is very comparable to Bifrost 2/64 multibit as a DAC, but how does the Amanero compare to the Unison USB?
You mentioned also that one can purchase the J2 without the USB and balanced/single ended op amps upgrade if added to the chain a USB Streamer, can you please recommend a good brand and or model?
I understand that the Bifrost is better as a balanced DAC, I’m wondering if you had a chance to compare the single-ended performance?
I notice that you mention the Gustard R26, I wonder if you will get a chance to compare the R26 vs A26 in the future?
I didn't compare the USB implementations between the two, but I am fairly confident that the Bifrost 2/64 would pull ahead when using USB for both because the Amanero board isn't galcanically isolated AFAIK. Of course, if you have a quality USB output like the JCat or Matrix PCI USB cards then that becomes irrelevant.
I'm not sure if you'd want a USB streamer, but a DDC like the Singxer SU-6 if you're trying to avoid the use of the USB socket on the J2S.
As for the R26, I've since sold it so I won't be doing that comparison.
My apologies if you covered this in the video, but did you compare the Geshelli J2 AKM4499EX and BiFrost 2 DACs only using headphones, or did you also connect them to speakers? I'm currently using the Schiit Modi 3 DAC for TV sources going to a vintage analog two channel McIntosh integrated amp, with two tower speakers. The sound is good, but I'm ready to take it to the next level. Thanks again for the detailed videos, definitely top notch!
I don't remember at this point if I used speakers, but I've tested the differences between speaker and headphone testing in the past and my conclusions are always the same regardless of the devices used. I.e. you can translate my findings here to either speakers or headphones. You will still want to account for the influences of your specific speakers and your room though because the synergy is these is a key aspect and not something that I can factor in for you. 🙂
Great review, question: Did you by chance compare the sound quality of the USB vs SPDIF on the J2? The fact that Schiit went and developed their own USB interface makes me skeptical of off-the-shelf interfaces like Amanero & XMOS. I currently run a Node via USB to a Bifrost 2/64 and love it
I didn't directly compare them on this occasion, but I would favour a SPDIF connection over the Amanero board unless you have quality USB outputs from a streamer or a PC using a PCI USB card like the JCat or Matrix options.
I would have really liked the extra step you did with the 4493 (with and without the sparkos). Would really like to hear how big the difference is between the 1656opa and the sparkos on the 4499
It's a big difference. The 1656 can't produce the nuance in sounds and depth in the soundstage that the Sparkos can.
The original dac JNOG, was AKM. The fire caused them to switch to ESS. When the production came back to normal they went back but they call it JNOG2, but to my knowledge JNOG and JNOG2 AKM 93 are exactly the same.
Also to add, Geshelli themselves chose the AKM 4493 over the ESS because it sounded better. If the fire didn't occur the ess would of probably never existed
Good points about the switch to the ESS chips. I'm not sure that the JNOG and J2 are identical though - would have to confirm that with the Geshelli team
My main system is a Wiim Pro feeding into a Geshelli Labs J2 AKM4499 with the Sparkos opamp chip for the RCSs which, in turn, feed into my Marantz 2235 which run to my Original Large Advents. That's in the master bedroom.
In the family room, We have the Wiim Pro Plus without an external DAC feeding a Marantz 2270 into a double set of stacked Original Large Advents. At some point I might add an external DAC.
I love both systems. Downstairs, we've got the more powerful amp and the stacked OLAs but just the internal DAC of the Pro Plus. Upstairs, we've got the less powerful amp and the single set of OLAs but with the AKM4499 J2 with Sparkos opamps. For entertaining, the downstairs system is lively and fun. For listening alone, I prefer the upstairs system with the far higher end DAC.
The improved layering and depth purveyed by the 99 chipset, are these just as audible with headphones not as expensive or refined as the ZMF Caldera? Will a HD600 or a Arya reproduce the aforementioned?
Great question and yes! The HD600 and Arya both present depth information quite well so you'll still hear a benefit.
I haven’t read through all the comments yet but I was curious why I do not see a way to purchase the J2 with the AK4499 chip option on the Geshelli website?
As I mentioned in the review, this came out a little before the official availability of the 4499EX version. It's coming soon to their website.
Lachlan, thanks for the review! One question: How much of a step up would the J2 4499 be from the Schiit Modi Multibit 2 be?
That's a great question and hard to quantify. I do think it's a significant step up though. The J2S 4499 is at the same level as Bifrost 2/64 and it is a big step up from the MM2
@PassionforSound And that is with the Sparkos Labs SS3602 and better power supply? Thanks
Yes to the Sparkos op-amps, but not necessarily with the power supply. If you can add a better power supply, it will improve, but I think it's already great even with the wall wart.
Ty for this video! I have the iFi Zen Dac v2 right now in combination with the XENNS Top IEM's. Do you think the XENNS Top will be experienced in way better glory with this setup? I will combine with the Archel 3 Pro ( I like spatial awareness cause I play fps games on a PC) I hope to hear from you!
The J2S AK4499EX version will bring a nice upgrade I think in terms of the spatial qualities and depth/layering.
ty!! @@PassionforSound
Just bought the AK4499 with Sparkos RCA … fingers crossed it is worth the hype
I'm pretty sure you'll be very happy 🙂
Significant step beyond the node 2i, but still not THE sound that my vinyl set-up produces, and that’s entry level. Happy though! Reinforces my ear to vinyl, and my digital kit took a big time step forward. I’ll stop chasing a DAC now, that I can afford, which can belly up to the bar with vinyl.
Yep, very few DACs (if any) will match the sound of vinyl. The same can be said in reverse too. I think that's a question of preference so it's probably a good idea to double down on the one you enjoy most.
Spot on, thank you. Merry Christmas!
Hi Lachlan,
a few minutes ago I saw your great review of the shanling em5 all in one device. I own a meze Elite and I really would like to know if you already have heard to em 7 . Do you think it works even better with the elite? I just can´t decide which one to buy.
Thank you very much for your kind help
I haven't tried the EM7 as yet so can't say - sorry.
Isn't it possible that the difference between XLR and RCA is greater than the difference between the two op amps? Or that it could have been the sole cause for what you heard or obscured what you heard, etc... ?
Having tried the XLR and RCA outputs with the same op-amps, I'm confident that they are near enough as to be identical. There will always be slight differences caused by the different connector types and cable geometries, but the differences here were definitely the op-amps, not the connections.
Hello, thanks for the detailed review. What is the best way to connect this dac to tablet/laptop?
Just order it with the USB card and you're all set! Glad you liked the review.
Question:
For a home theater / 2 channel listing room.
Would there be any improvements over a Pioneer Elite receiver DAC for movies and 2 channel listing by adding a stock J2 DAC with the 4499 chipsets?
Basic system for movie and music.
Pioneer Elite
RSL speakers 5.2 with RSL subs.
Great honest video two thumbs up 👍🏻 👍🏻.
Without trying the Pioneer, it's hard to say, but you'll likely find that the two channel performance of the J2S is a significant upgrade because receivers like that are probably using an older AKM or ESS chip (or something else that's surround sound focussed rather than music focused)
@@PassionforSound My Pioneer receiver came out in 2005 so she’s pretty old.
It was the 1st receiver to have THX for Pioneer she’s still working like the original day of purchase.
I think it’s best for me to just purchase a J2 since Geishelli Labs has a 30 day trial so I can give the J2 a good test drive.
Based on that info, it will be a really nice upgrade, I expect
Anyone try the Sparkos SS2590 in the RCA socket?
Hello,
Does a linear power supply will improve the sound quality?
Do you recommend to buy it?
Thanks in advance
It will provide a modest improvment IME, but keep in mind that the cost of a decent LPS is about the same as the DAC itself (depending on the spec level you choose).
I'd recommend putting that money into better components (amp, headphones, speakers, etc.) before worrying about a power supply.
How does it compare to the mojo 2 and topping and smsl around the same price and Denafrips and other r2r DACs
It's better than any of the other Delta Sigma DACs like the Toppings or SMSLs. It will be about on par or just behind the Mojo 2 I expect (but I haven't directly compared)
Hi Lachlan. I appreciate your very informative and extensive reviews. How does the AK4499ex compare to the new Bifrost 2/64? These are the two I've narrowed down to since the Bifrost 2 is no longer available. Thank you!
I'm glad you like my reviews!
These two are very close in performance, but I slightly prefer the soundstage depth and 3-dimensionality that the Bifrost 2/64 provides.
@PassionforSound Hi Lachlan, Thanks for the reply! Just to clarify, you were comparing the Geshelli to the Bifrost 2 in your YT review, not the Bifrost 2/64? Thanks!
No, it was the Bifrost 2/64. I don't bother specifying now because the OG Bifrost 2 is no longer available
@@PassionforSound Thank you so much! 😊 I appreciate you! Happy New Year!
My pleasure. Happy new year to you too!
for those who already have 12v linear psu, how would the j2 4499 w/ sparkos compare against bifrost or even topping d90 with the same chip?
The AK4499 in the D90 is a different chip to the AK4499EX used in the J2 - I should have clarified that.
Adding a linear power supply will no doubt provide a nice step up and might even pull ahead of the Bifrost 2
As of October 2023 in the UK:
Schitt MM2: £295 + PP (UK store)
J2S AKM 4499 Top Spec: £592 + PP + tax
Denafrips Ares II (direct): £812 (incl VAT) + PP
Chord Mojo 2: £395 total (just bought mine brand new for £375)
It's a no brainer in the UK.
That's a great price for the Mojo 2, but there are still reasons to buy the J2S AK4499 IMO - it will depend on what people require.
Will the Sparkos Dual SS2590 opamps fit in the J2? With or without flexible extensions? They're a pretty firm step up over the SS3602 in my 2023 Soloist 3X GT so I would assume they'd be a big jump in a DAC output stage as well.
You'd need adaptors to use the pro op-amps in the DAC (if using in all three sockets) and space will be tricky so some funky angles will be required I think
I'm in this camp now.... I have 3 SS2590 pro dual's ready to go alongside 3 Burson extenders. That and 5, SS3602's. If I go SE and stay SE, I will put 2 of the big guys into the Gustard P26. Provided It has the slots vs soldered. But I am sure tempted to dump them all into the J2 thought. I have Sparkos in my DAC, Geshelli A3, my pre-amp and my speaker amp... Good stuff them Sparkos!
Hey bro,
Toppings E70VELVET DAC was the first, one of its kind to use this flagship AKM4499EX chip even without using any OpAmps at all in the chain and it still sounds Amazing.
Hiw do i know ? Because i got One :D
Thanks for sharing that. The E70V never came my way, but I'm a definite believer in the chip combo.
You compared the 4499 to the Bifrost and those are more price comparable at a higher tier. How does the 4493 w/ and w/o the sparkos upgrade compare to the multibit 2 both through single ended? I know it’s a little apples and oranges with the two delivery methods but these two are similarly priced. Mostly doing 2 channel music listening.
The Multibit 2 will probably have a slight edge over the AK4493 J2S in terms of depth and layering, but the J2S will definitely come out ahead on things like detail and resolution so it's going to depend a lot on what you favour/prioritise.
I like their products but it wouldn’t be for me. Still appreciate their craftsmanship and progress over the years.
I agree. Aesthetically (and practically), their size and form don't suit my desktop setup, but the performance is excellent and the innovation even better.
Question: Now, in comparison, would you choose the J2 AK4493 with Sparkos Op Amps, or the J2 AK4499 with the stock Op amps? Which sounds better and which do you prefer?
Good question! I'd take the 4499 with stock op-amps because the 4499 DAC is significantly better IMO. You can always swap the op-amps later. 🙂
Are you comparing this to the original Bifrost 2 or the Bifrost 2/64 (which you said was objectively better, and is the only one currently available)?
I'd like this clarified, too.
Bifrost 2/64. I always try to avoid any comparisons with our of date products so that everything is current and available. Thanks for seeking clarification
Would love to hear your opinion on using the Sparkos 2590 Pro Op Amp in the single-ended output. 😉 Again, another modular option for the J2s.
Edit - just watched your video with the Geshelli’s and the properly formatted 8-pin 2590 stack does fit in the RCA spot. 😊
I don't currently have a spare 2590 to try, but I might get the chance in the future. We'll see...
Neil S has this setup. The ultimate sparkos upgrade.
You should review the SMSL SU1 with linear power supply you will be surprise
What lps you using?
@samza9622 I am using a battery bank with 5v 1a made with 18650 batteries. There are different power banks built. Some have like sandwick layers. Those sounds like regular power supply. The 18650 built is a round similar to capacitors, and that the reason why they sound much better.
I've tested LPSs before and I'm a fan of their potential to upgrade the devices they power. No doubt they would be a nice addition to the J2 with AK4499EX
@tonym8358 Do you have a name for this battery bank you use and where you brought it from?
@samza9622 Most of ravpower power bank have 18650 batteries go to their website and look in the pictures of each power supply
What a fantastic video.
I'm so glad you liked it!
does the Geshelli J2 DAC with the new AK4499EX and the sparkos Opamp sound better then EverSolo Z8 ?
It's a close call in many ways, but the one clear benefit I hear from J2S is better depth and layering compared to the DAC-Z8
How do you think the Denafrips ARES II compares against the J2 w/Sparkos or the Bifrost 2?
I'd personally take both over the Ares II. The Ares was too slow sounding for me and lacked the necessary energy to sound natural and engaging.
Were you comparing the bifrost and the 4499ex with single ended or balanced outs?
I don't recall, but both devices perform well from both outputs and I always compare like with like so the comparisons will hold true for RCA vs RCA or XLR vs XLR. For that matter, with these DACs, the outputs are so similar that XLR vs RCA would still good true.
You mentioned that the J2 AK4499 pairs well with the Archel 3. Would you recommend the Sparkos Op amp on the DAC or the Amp ? Or both?
The Archel 3 Pro comes stock with 2 SparkosLabs SS2590's installed.
Yep, A3 Pro is all set. I'd recommend getting the Sparkos in the DAC too to get the most from the pairing, but you could have them in just the RCA or XLR stage if you prefer.
So now that Geshelli is also offering the Burson op amps, which op amp would be your preference?
My order of preference (from bottom to top) would be Burson V6, Sparkos 3602, Burson V7, Sparkos Pro
Any idea when the 4489 version will be available in the UK?
That would be a question for Geshelli Labs - sorry.
@Passionforsound
Wow!
I have an opportunity to get the Soncoz SGD1 for less than $300. I’ve wanted it for a long time, but now I’m thinking the J2 socketed with Sparkos. And the SMSL with the same chip configuration.
What do I want? What was described. Layers of sound and wide sound stage.
Oh what to do
It's definitely a tough one. The challenge for other DACs using the 4499EX will be the output stage being able to get the most from the chip. I've got the SMSL SU-9 Ultra here now so that will be a very interesting test to compare vs the Geshelli.
@@PassionforSound Thanks as always for replying. I've decided to not get the Soncoz. Efin PayPal's conversion rate is Highway robbery. I'm interested to hear about the SMSL with the same chip config and still considering the Ares II when one comes available at my price in a couple of years.
Update: plan to go with the Socketed jnog2
Wouldn’t the Bifrost 2 be the most appropriate choice when used with a PC since the Schiit utilizes Unison technology, and thus can be used via USB without the need to buy an additional DDC?
There are definitely benefits to using galvanic isolation as in the Unison USB, but it's not THAT big of a difference as to make the Geshellis irrelevant
when shall the 4499ex version be available on the Geshelli website?
I'm not sure the exact timing, but it should be in the next couple of weeks.
Thanks for great review. I’m using a dmp-a6 Dac section. In your opinion, what Dac would be a considerable upgrade in overall sound over the dmp-a6?
Depending on your budget and tastes, I'd look at something like a Gustard A26 or R26, or maybe a Chord Qutest. At the next tier, you've got Chord TT2, Holo May, etc.
Hi @@PassionforSound
I have the Eversolo DMP-A6 too and I am using his DAC.
I'd like to add an external DAC.
For you the Geshelli J2S with AKM4499 worth not the upgrade ?
I'm hesitating between the Geshelli, Denafrips Ares ii 12th-1, Denafrips Pontus ii 12th-1 and Chord Qutest...
Can you give me some advice please?
Thanks
I've begun to think that the J2S with AK4499 might be a nice addition to the DMP-A6 because I'm currently comparing the new DMP-A8 which uses the same 4499EX chip and the DMP-A6 with Geshelli J2S AK4499 is slightly, but clearly better.
The A8 has plenty of other benefits over the A6 so I only mean that the pure sound quality is better when adding the J2S DAC.
@@PassionforSound with the A6, do you test the J2S AKM4499 with Sparkos Opamps? Or another one?
Thanks for your answer
J2 AK4499 with Sparkos op-amps 🙂
Compared to Schiit Bifrost 2/64, You said that the Geshelli is more airy. Geshelli is more neutral / neutral in the treble region?
Thanks
It's really hard to say which is correct/neutral but the treble is perhaps a touch more defined/crisp from the Geshelli if that helps.
November 26th. I was told that if there are two sparkos op amps one could be pulled to use in the RCS. Is that true?
Thank you
I suppose that's true theoretically. It would just mean opening the unit to swap it back anytime you need to use the XLRs.
@@PassionforSound Ok. Thank you. There's one for sale on US MART for $610. USB and Sparkos for XLR's. I can't justify buying it at the moment with all the other things that need fixing.
Nice review. Can the akm 4493 with sparkos be upgraded to the 4499ex on the same board?
No. It's a different board layout due to the dual chip design in the 4499EX setup.
@@PassionforSound Do you believe a linear power supply would improve the 4493 j2s with sparkos in the RCA side? Thanks in advance for your help
Yes, the Geshelli gear does have some upgrade potential with linear supplies. It's not a huge shift, but it's there.