You mentioned the speaker who had a father who transitioned and the impact it had on her. Well I have a similar situation, but in this case its the mother and her 4-year old child. Her child is no longer allowed to call her "Mommy" and I know she doesn't like or believe it. She told me that she calls Mommy "Papa" because it makes Papa happy, even though she's not a boy. So this little kid has to participate in a lie. I wonder about the long term impact on trusting adults, the fact that her mother who gave birth to her, is now saying "he's" not a mother. Its so messed up. I have tried to find more stories or just any information to try and mitigate the damage now, before its becomes traumatic for her. I would love it if you guys can consider this angle as well.
saying yes all the time isn't necessarily kind/compassionate. sometimes saying no is the kindest most compassionate thing a person can do, especially a parent.
True I admire their incredible balance. Hope Stella & Sasha are both doing well and can share their strength and intelligence with us for a long time to come! 💖
I don't quite understand the idea that puberty is scary. Firstly, how would a child who has not experienced it yet get this idea? Secondly, obviously I talk from my own particular experience as an only child, so I didn't have siblings to observe and talk with, but to me puberty was annoying, confusing, overly hormonal, physically painful (everything hurt!), very insecure and self conscious (I didn't like my merging breasts, periods and sexualized male attention but I accepted the reality of womanhood because... duh!) - but scary? I wouldn't say fear as such was part of my experience. If I had only one word I would say it was inconvenient. I'm genuinely curious why it felt scary to some.
I think a child who is scared by puberty has absorbed the many messages that puberty is scary. Or, perhaps more likely, the child feel uncomfortable, annoyed, etc, and calls those feelings "fear" because fearing puberty is now a thing.
It's because there is no bar to insulate children from sexuality anymore. Girls are raised to think being a woman is a battle, a battle against men, a competition against her peers. It's too hard being adult now, especially if you don't measure up against the expectations of your peers.
Fearing puberty. Wonder if that stems from parents being and being conditioned to be afraid of that time in the life of the children. I know some kids fear leaving childhood, but fearing puberty. Good question. Inconvenient or weirdly unfamiliar at times, but scary. Hmm. You've got me thinking.
Interesting. I'm a man so different but yeah the intensity of feelings etc are full on. I think the bigger issues come from kids who've been abused, becoming a sexual being, even realising you've been abused can be a pretty horrific and confusing time. Puberty is hard for normal kids with good family support. You do have a point, most kids just get on with it. The problem is with kids who have suffered abuse, have autism, bad parenting and bullying etc.
18:53 thank you for coming back to the dutch! Any news from them? The Netherlands are running their own review on what has happened while the "trusted" "these " "experts" if I'm not mistaken?
Absolutely loved how many times you tried to wrap up the pod. 😅 Also, very excited to hear all the talks from the conference. Thank you for all you do.
Im sorry but the father transitioning during his daughter’s adolescence was incredibly selfish. As a parent you give up the right to knowingly damage your kids. Even then parenting mistakes are inevitable, but really, he couldn’t raise his daughter for a few more years to a level of maturity that minimized the harm of expressing his “authentic self”? How many parents suffer through all manner of incredibly difficult circumstances for the sake of their children?
Emma Thomas is bringing a huge element to the conversation. I apologized to my daughter about my mess and what it did to her after listening to Emma. Good on her.
I tried to get to Colorado last year. When I found out Michael Shellenberger was there, I was even more disappointed that I didn't make it. I've been following along for almost two years and grateful beyond my own ability to express that people I admire in all these various disciplines have some together to confront this issue.
,* have come together. And Matthias Desmet is a great example. Please read his book "The Psychology of Totalitarianism". It's exactly in line with GenSpect's mission statement.
come together. And everyone needs to watch Peter Boghossian's discussion with Mia Hughes as he worked out his argument for what a representative from WPATH might say, if they would agree to come and have a conversation with him.
I've made it my absolute goal to attend next year-provided I can avoid being cancelled between now and then! EDIT: Actually, that would only make me more likely to. Never mind!
And I agree. A “Follow the Money” talk for the next Genspect especially in the US would be great. Planned Parent isn’t as busy since pap guidelines changed to every 3 years, IUDs last 5+ years, abortions are down. They have to keep making money (and preventing babies), so of course gender medicine would be their next big money maker. And gender clinics affiliated with health systems are incredible feeders to the system-endo, surgery, surgery revisions, counseling, lab, are all money makers. And because they give patients anything and everything they want, satisfaction scores are fabulous. Plus they get grant money. And insurance is required to cover the services, often at 100% and no deductible, so no possibility of poor reimbursement. It’s a win-win for the industry, lose -lose for the patient and the family.
My niece works at a hospital in the Philadelphia area. She said that hospital would be out of business if it wasn’t for gender assignment surgeries. Do not expect doctors to take any kind of lead. They’re making a fortune and are completely covered.
I would LOVE to hear both of you playing ‘Devil Advocate’ to a Genspect audience. I listened to Mia and Peter and they did it slightly and it sounded soooo good. ❤️🇬🇧❌❌
The dsm should come as lifestyle supplement to The Sunday Times. With all the other opinion pieces describing the current state of culture and society.
No they don't! They have support for transitioners but no support for detransitioners. What gets me is why aren't these gender doctors prepared for situations like these when things don't work for the patient. I don't agree with any transitioning, but these doctors should be prepared for bad outcomes. It seems to me that this is like a form of eugenics. Hitler did all kinds of eugenics hoping to get a perfect race of white people and all the damage he did to pregnant women and today it's no different today when people are mutilating children and adults as well. It is such a shame.
That point about the EU's obsession with forcing gender identity ideology on millions of Europeans is deeply sinister. I couldn't be more disgusted by the EU, and it's clearer now than ever before that it needs to be dismantled.
there are definitely problems with the EU in its current form, but something like it is necessary, considering global power balances. Imagine if, say, China becomes the global prime mover. Any small country on its own is going to get worse deals from such a giant, whether it be China, Russia, the US, India etc, if it gets any deals at all, or rather it gets fabricated impositions based on the giant's local needs. A larger confederacy will always be in a better position to negotiate.
Regarding Frank Furedi: they only use the word 'controversial' when they want to shut you up. 'People we agree with' are NEVER called controversial. Watch for propaganda words.
Excellent work ladies. I nearly came to Portugal but life intervened. Let us know in good time where and when the next conference is. And make it somewhere nice. In Europe preferably x
Such a meaningful discussion, as always. I'm at 18:55 and it was said patient zero is very pivotal and some clinicians will see how it goes from that patient and if I understood correctly use that as a guide for all other patients presenting with similar symptoms/issues. That was frightening to me, but also an a-ha moment. Is that how this gender movement cloaked with righteousness spread so fiercely into same sex spaces? There is a transidentified psychiatrist on youtube that insists affirming care is the only care otherwise death is on the line. I wondered how the he** he/she got to that extreme thought but if they themself are patient zero it makes sense. To affirm all patients, all people with similar symptoms is to affirm correctness for patient zero's diagnosis/treatment. Apologies for going on, I'm quite fascinated and dismayed by this phenomenon of affirming an affliction and erasing other's spaces. You two always give such good insights.
I have as a patient a teen whose dad has transitioned and he is romantically involved with another man who has transitioned (both medical, not surgical). In our practice we also have some toddlers whose dad is also transitioning. And one of our clinic admins left a trans widow and 4 kids. I suspect in future years you will have plenty of these kids available to speak. Maybe reach out to Bruce Jenners kids. If you read Linda Thompson’s book, sounds like he really estranged from them, his choice not theirs.
The fact these men are held up as paragons of virtue while literally abandoning their role as fathers in favour of sxualized lives is so disturbing to me. Jenner used his granddaughters underwear to get off to. These guys are offenders not role models.
12:46 he finished after mumbling around for too long, having mentioned covid more often than gender/trans. Both not too often. He had his points. But after a while he felt like a charismatic speaker at an anti-lockdown demonstration. ❤
A little off topic, I have millenial, genz and genalpha children. I noticed the genz school experience is very much embracing the gender questioning but the gen alpha school experience doesn't seem to be "celebrating differences" so much, more a nonissue than a "look at me". There is also a difference in handling victim and victimhood status. I wondered if it was a microcosm of a larger shift happening? I know I shifted my thought on all of this over the last few years so it may just be role impacting my own view points as well? Also social groups, some have WAY more non-binary and some have zero. Or is this old news and I'm slow to catch up? :)
I've wondered about the children of transitioners. I kind of wish they'd speak about their experiences, good or bad. I imagine they feel a lot of pressure from society to just affirm and support and maybe keep their distress to themselves.
The thinking of De Vries is so stunning and it still gets to me. The pioneer series including the Dutch guys was pivotal for me. They sounded so ludicrously lost and caught up in their own magical abilities to choose who was "truly trans". De Vries will be like the pioneer of lobotomies travelling the world to prove he was right. So much damage done to children and vulnerable adults by one person.
You all should watch the Maiden Mother podcast. Nice to see Ray Blanchard stating the scientific impartial view on erotic interests that don't involve procreation. How socio political views decided what was seen as " kind of ok " and what wasn't. With no emperocal evidence. I yearn for a day when ideology on both sides of this debate. Give into hard clinical and observational science. Only then will any real porogress be made on what is or isn't in individual circumstances is the best course of action.
Isnt it astounding how "Gay-Straight Alliance" (aka Gender-Sexuality Alliance) has involved in grooming grounds. The discussion with Billboard Chris really highlights this divergence. Imagine a group of high school students gathering to explore and support each other around the issue of heterosexuality. How long would it take before this would be reported to the police.
What you have to remember about Bowers is. She would run a mile if a penis came anywhere near her, intimately. Recommending non vagina plasty suits 70% of her clients who are like her. That's who the recommendation. The history of the surgery was based on HSTS. Blanchards original Cohort. Both groups have drastically different motivations concerning surgery.
Furedi is kind of weird. He was the organiser/king of a Trotskyite cult back in the 70's and 80's and they all still act like a cult -- they all speak at each other's events and support each others careers -- but they've dropped the Trotskyism and have become libertarians and there's almost nothing I disagree with them about these days. Spiked is their current house organ. Used to be Living Marxism but they came unstuck when they defamed somebody over Serbia/Croatia.
Regarding the story of the children of MTF transitioners at approx 38:00. I would like to make 2 points, if you would allow me. My first point, is that I think these are sad stories, but I don't think these are stories about "trans", I think these are stories about people who are not good parents to their children, and those parents happen to be trans. I'm not trying to take away from the children's experience, I am trying to say that I think that stories like these and the trans-widows stories are anecdotes that are being oversold as generalizations regarding "threats" that arise from "transgender ideology", but essentially they are stories about people who are selfish, or narcissistic, or otherwise do not have the required empathy to take care of the loved ones who are close to them, and in these cases- these selfish people happen to be trans. It seems what people are doing with these stories is trying to cause a strong emotional reaction in their audience, to galvanize them to take specific action against "transgender ideology". My second point is that this is a very similar approach that the "other side" has used in the reverse. I'll say the "pediatric transition advocates"- have oversold story after story of the threat of self-harm, suicide, and long-term mental health struggles of children who are not transitioned, as a way to generate emotional reactions in their audience (e.g. parents and politicians), to take action in support of childhood transition. While I agree with a lot of what the gender critical side stands for, when I see them using the same emotional leveraging that the other side uses, it really weakens all of their other arguments to me, and makes me feel like I am being pulled into a cult-like atmosphere.
I think you're underplaying or unaware of this common pattern where trans and male abuse is clearly intertwined. I recommend watching Ute Heggen or lime soda films behind the looking glass. This is a very common strand of trans identification for trans identified males. And the effect on the wives and children is negative and largely abusive. The narcissism, corn use, lack of empathy for others are really common parts of trans identity. They are prevalent throughout, not some extraneous element you can separate from the whole egotistical process of an adult male claiming to be a woman based on stereotypes and paraphilias. If anything the victims of the men identifying as trans are near silent. Sorry, but comparing this to the activist side is frankly laughable. How many voices of children and wives have you heard? There are literally only a handful of famous examples and yet ppl like Jenner or Levine or Bowers or Hayton are household names and we don't hear from their children or wives. I get the impression you're moving away from objectivity and believing more and more fervently in falsehoods and cult like beliefs.
You mentioned the speaker who had a father who transitioned and the impact it had on her. Well I have a similar situation, but in this case its the mother and her 4-year old child. Her child is no longer allowed to call her "Mommy" and I know she doesn't like or believe it. She told me that she calls Mommy "Papa" because it makes Papa happy, even though she's not a boy. So this little kid has to participate in a lie. I wonder about the long term impact on trusting adults, the fact that her mother who gave birth to her, is now saying "he's" not a mother. Its so messed up. I have tried to find more stories or just any information to try and mitigate the damage now, before its becomes traumatic for her. I would love it if you guys can consider this angle as well.
saying yes all the time isn't necessarily kind/compassionate. sometimes saying no is the kindest most compassionate thing a person can do, especially a parent.
And also the hardest, in my personal experience
I can’t wait to see all the videos of the various presentations.
Will they be shown on *this* channel?
I love listening to you both! I always learn a lot and you have such a great energy in conversation together.
Can't wait for the genspect eps. All the conf footage has been brilliant
Keep up the good fight. Your mixture of being women of steel and squashy marshmallows ( so compassionate )at the same time is a winning formula !
True I admire their incredible balance. Hope Stella & Sasha are both doing well and can share their strength and intelligence with us for a long time to come! 💖
Fascinating and thank you! I am going to hunt down the conference videos...
I love this discussion - and it’s been so lovely to hear about your evolving thoughts over the years, so inspiring ✨✨✨
I don't quite understand the idea that puberty is scary. Firstly, how would a child who has not experienced it yet get this idea? Secondly, obviously I talk from my own particular experience as an only child, so I didn't have siblings to observe and talk with, but to me puberty was annoying, confusing, overly hormonal, physically painful (everything hurt!), very insecure and self conscious (I didn't like my merging breasts, periods and sexualized male attention but I accepted the reality of womanhood because... duh!) - but scary? I wouldn't say fear as such was part of my experience. If I had only one word I would say it was inconvenient. I'm genuinely curious why it felt scary to some.
I think a child who is scared by puberty has absorbed the many messages that puberty is scary. Or, perhaps more likely, the child feel uncomfortable, annoyed, etc, and calls those feelings "fear" because fearing puberty is now a thing.
It's because there is no bar to insulate children from sexuality anymore.
Girls are raised to think being a woman is a battle, a battle against men, a competition against her peers. It's too hard being adult now, especially if you don't measure up against the expectations of your peers.
Fearing puberty. Wonder if that stems from parents being and being conditioned to be afraid of that time in the life of the children. I know some kids fear leaving childhood, but fearing puberty. Good question. Inconvenient or weirdly unfamiliar at times, but scary. Hmm. You've got me thinking.
@@AndyJarman you are so right
Interesting. I'm a man so different but yeah the intensity of feelings etc are full on.
I think the bigger issues come from kids who've been abused, becoming a sexual being, even realising you've been abused can be a pretty horrific and confusing time.
Puberty is hard for normal kids with good family support. You do have a point, most kids just get on with it. The problem is with kids who have suffered abuse, have autism, bad parenting and bullying etc.
Always some surprising cross overs in the podcasts I listen to but definitely wasn't expecting Jimmy Carr ;-)
18:53 thank you for coming back to the dutch! Any news from them?
The Netherlands are running their own review on what has happened while the "trusted" "these " "experts" if I'm not mistaken?
Absolutely loved how many times you tried to wrap up the pod. 😅
Also, very excited to hear all the talks from the conference. Thank you for all you do.
Im sorry but the father transitioning during his daughter’s adolescence was incredibly selfish. As a parent you give up the right to knowingly damage your kids. Even then parenting mistakes are inevitable, but really, he couldn’t raise his daughter for a few more years to a level of maturity that minimized the harm of expressing his “authentic self”? How many parents suffer through all manner of incredibly difficult circumstances for the sake of their children?
Amen!
Emma Thomas is bringing a huge element to the conversation. I apologized to my daughter about my mess and what it did to her after listening to Emma. Good on her.
Ooh I'm so looking forward to watching these videos! And I'm hoping that one day I'll attend a Genspect conference.
I tried to get to Colorado last year. When I found out Michael Shellenberger was there, I was even more disappointed that I didn't make it. I've been following along for almost two years and grateful beyond my own ability to express that people I admire in all these various disciplines have some together to confront this issue.
,* have come together. And Matthias Desmet is a great example. Please read his book "The Psychology of Totalitarianism". It's exactly in line with GenSpect's mission statement.
come together. And everyone needs to watch Peter Boghossian's discussion with Mia Hughes as he worked out his argument for what a representative from WPATH might say, if they would agree to come and have a conversation with him.
I've made it my absolute goal to attend next year-provided I can avoid being cancelled between now and then! EDIT: Actually, that would only make me more likely to. Never mind!
And I agree. A “Follow the Money” talk for the next Genspect especially in the US would be great. Planned Parent isn’t as busy since pap guidelines changed to every 3 years, IUDs last 5+ years, abortions are down. They have to keep making money (and preventing babies), so of course gender medicine would be their next big money maker. And gender clinics affiliated with health systems are incredible feeders to the system-endo, surgery, surgery revisions, counseling, lab, are all money makers. And because they give patients anything and everything they want, satisfaction scores are fabulous. Plus they get grant money. And insurance is required to cover the services, often at 100% and no deductible, so no possibility of poor reimbursement. It’s a win-win for the industry, lose -lose for the patient and the family.
My niece works at a hospital in the Philadelphia area. She said that hospital would be out of business if it wasn’t for gender assignment surgeries. Do not expect doctors to take any kind of lead. They’re making a fortune and are completely covered.
I would LOVE to hear both of you playing ‘Devil Advocate’ to a Genspect audience. I listened to Mia and Peter and they did it slightly and it sounded soooo good. ❤️🇬🇧❌❌
The dsm should come as lifestyle supplement to The Sunday Times. With all the other opinion pieces describing the current state of culture and society.
Are the detransitioners going to get the love they need being lied to about being able to change sex is a lie
Excellent question.
No they don't! They have support for transitioners but no support for detransitioners.
What gets me is why aren't these gender doctors prepared for situations like these when things don't work for the patient. I don't agree with any transitioning, but these doctors should be prepared for bad outcomes. It seems to me that this is like a form of eugenics. Hitler did all kinds of eugenics hoping to get a perfect race of white people and all the damage he did to pregnant women and today it's no different today when people are mutilating children and adults as well. It is such a shame.
That point about the EU's obsession with forcing gender identity ideology on millions of Europeans is deeply sinister.
I couldn't be more disgusted by the EU, and it's clearer now than ever before that it needs to be dismantled.
there are definitely problems with the EU in its current form, but something like it is necessary, considering global power balances. Imagine if, say, China becomes the global prime mover. Any small country on its own is going to get worse deals from such a giant, whether it be China, Russia, the US, India etc, if it gets any deals at all, or rather it gets fabricated impositions based on the giant's local needs. A larger confederacy will always be in a better position to negotiate.
Feminism has a foothold in the UN and other supranational organisations. That's why.
Regarding Frank Furedi: they only use the word 'controversial' when they want to shut you up. 'People we agree with' are NEVER called controversial. Watch for propaganda words.
Excellent work ladies. I nearly came to Portugal but life intervened. Let us know in good time where and when the next conference is. And make it somewhere nice. In Europe preferably x
Such a meaningful discussion, as always. I'm at 18:55 and it was said patient zero is very pivotal and some clinicians will see how it goes from that patient and if I understood correctly use that as a guide for all other patients presenting with similar symptoms/issues. That was frightening to me, but also an a-ha moment. Is that how this gender movement cloaked with righteousness spread so fiercely into same sex spaces? There is a transidentified psychiatrist on youtube that insists affirming care is the only care otherwise death is on the line. I wondered how the he** he/she got to that extreme thought but if they themself are patient zero it makes sense. To affirm all patients, all people with similar symptoms is to affirm correctness for patient zero's diagnosis/treatment. Apologies for going on, I'm quite fascinated and dismayed by this phenomenon of affirming an affliction and erasing other's spaces. You two always give such good insights.
31:57 Absolutely spot on from Lisa Marchiano
Thanks
Has Ceri Lee Galvin ever spoken at a genspect conference?
44:30
"Established a Culture of Desistance"
That sounds juicy; I like it!
I have as a patient a teen whose dad has transitioned and he is romantically involved with another man who has transitioned (both medical, not surgical). In our practice we also have some toddlers whose dad is also transitioning. And one of our clinic admins left a trans widow and 4 kids. I suspect in future years you will have plenty of these kids available to speak. Maybe reach out to Bruce Jenners kids. If you read Linda Thompson’s book, sounds like he really estranged from them, his choice not theirs.
The fact these men are held up as paragons of virtue while literally abandoning their role as fathers in favour of sxualized lives is so disturbing to me.
Jenner used his granddaughters underwear to get off to. These guys are offenders not role models.
Marcie Bowers might finally learned a little something from the Jazz Jennings surgical saga.
12:46 he finished after mumbling around for too long, having mentioned covid more often than gender/trans. Both not too often. He had his points. But after a while he felt like a charismatic speaker at an anti-lockdown demonstration. ❤
At least no cockroaches were released there.
Or fire alarms deliberately set off solely to sabotage..!
Crickets.
A little off topic, I have millenial, genz and genalpha children. I noticed the genz school experience is very much embracing the gender questioning but the gen alpha school experience doesn't seem to be "celebrating differences" so much, more a nonissue than a "look at me". There is also a difference in handling victim and victimhood status. I wondered if it was a microcosm of a larger shift happening? I know I shifted my thought on all of this over the last few years so it may just be role impacting my own view points as well? Also social groups, some have WAY more non-binary and some have zero. Or is this old news and I'm slow to catch up? :)
I've wondered about the children of transitioners. I kind of wish they'd speak about their experiences, good or bad. I imagine they feel a lot of pressure from society to just affirm and support and maybe keep their distress to themselves.
A worthwhile conference. One topic was conspicuously absent though...
And that was...?
Yes, I don't know the answer...🤷@@lynnej.9357
..The true culprits, Feminists.
C'mon Georgina, finish the...
Care of trans-identified people when they develop dementia????????❤️🇬🇧❌❌
The thinking of De Vries is so stunning and it still gets to me. The pioneer series including the Dutch guys was pivotal for me. They sounded so ludicrously lost and caught up in their own magical abilities to choose who was "truly trans".
De Vries will be like the pioneer of lobotomies travelling the world to prove he was right.
So much damage done to children and vulnerable adults by one person.
You all should watch the Maiden Mother podcast. Nice to see Ray Blanchard stating the scientific impartial view on erotic interests that don't involve procreation. How socio political views decided what was seen as " kind of ok " and what wasn't. With no emperocal evidence. I yearn for a day when ideology on both sides of this debate. Give into hard clinical and observational science. Only then will any real porogress be made on what is or isn't in individual circumstances is the best course of action.
And it is not needed now eather just let kids grow up
Moms do take the lead with action. Unfortunately, the lead they usually take is to transition their children, even from the youngest ages.
"Speak the truth" or at least don't lie...
JP
@@Halman2112 Honesty is the best policy.
Isnt it astounding how "Gay-Straight Alliance" (aka Gender-Sexuality Alliance) has involved in grooming grounds. The discussion with Billboard Chris really highlights this divergence. Imagine a group of high school students gathering to explore and support each other around the issue of heterosexuality. How long would it take before this would be reported to the police.
Yes there is practically no help for a child of a transitioner.
What you have to remember about Bowers is. She would run a mile if a penis came anywhere near her, intimately. Recommending non vagina plasty suits 70% of her clients who are like her. That's who the recommendation. The history of the surgery was based on HSTS. Blanchards original Cohort. Both groups have drastically different motivations concerning surgery.
No depth metaphore 🤣🤣🤣
❤️🇬🇧❌❌
👁👁
Furedi is kind of weird. He was the organiser/king of a Trotskyite cult back in the 70's and 80's and they all still act like a cult -- they all speak at each other's events and support each others careers -- but they've dropped the Trotskyism and have become libertarians and there's almost nothing I disagree with them about these days. Spiked is their current house organ. Used to be Living Marxism but they came unstuck when they defamed somebody over Serbia/Croatia.
Regarding the story of the children of MTF transitioners at approx 38:00. I would like to make 2 points, if you would allow me. My first point, is that I think these are sad stories, but I don't think these are stories about "trans", I think these are stories about people who are not good parents to their children, and those parents happen to be trans. I'm not trying to take away from the children's experience, I am trying to say that I think that stories like these and the trans-widows stories are anecdotes that are being oversold as generalizations regarding "threats" that arise from "transgender ideology", but essentially they are stories about people who are selfish, or narcissistic, or otherwise do not have the required empathy to take care of the loved ones who are close to them, and in these cases- these selfish people happen to be trans. It seems what people are doing with these stories is trying to cause a strong emotional reaction in their audience, to galvanize them to take specific action against "transgender ideology". My second point is that this is a very similar approach that the "other side" has used in the reverse. I'll say the "pediatric transition advocates"- have oversold story after story of the threat of self-harm, suicide, and long-term mental health struggles of children who are not transitioned, as a way to generate emotional reactions in their audience (e.g. parents and politicians), to take action in support of childhood transition. While I agree with a lot of what the gender critical side stands for, when I see them using the same emotional leveraging that the other side uses, it really weakens all of their other arguments to me, and makes me feel like I am being pulled into a cult-like atmosphere.
I think you're underplaying or unaware of this common pattern where trans and male abuse is clearly intertwined.
I recommend watching Ute Heggen or lime soda films behind the looking glass.
This is a very common strand of trans identification for trans identified males. And the effect on the wives and children is negative and largely abusive.
The narcissism, corn use, lack of empathy for others are really common parts of trans identity. They are prevalent throughout, not some extraneous element you can separate from the whole egotistical process of an adult male claiming to be a woman based on stereotypes and paraphilias.
If anything the victims of the men identifying as trans are near silent. Sorry, but comparing this to the activist side is frankly laughable. How many voices of children and wives have you heard? There are literally only a handful of famous examples and yet ppl like Jenner or Levine or Bowers or Hayton are household names and we don't hear from their children or wives.
I get the impression you're moving away from objectivity and believing more and more fervently in falsehoods and cult like beliefs.