Dawn of the Detransitioner Lawsuits, with Josh Payne | EP 167
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 6 июн 2024
- In this episode, Sasha and Stella welcome lawyer, Josh Payne, co-founder of Campbell Miller Payne, a law firm dedicated to representing individuals who were misled and abused - many as children - into psychological and physical harm through a false promise of “gender-affirming care.” Campbell Miller Payne is committed to its mission to speak up for these victims, assert their rights, and pursue justice.
This is a conversation about various legal challenges faced by detransitioners, such as issues with informed consent, systemic healthcare problems, and the experimental nature of many treatments. The discussion emphasizes the vulnerability of clients, the lack of comprehensive care addressing underlying mental health issues, and the need for cautious medical practices, underscoring the importance of seeking justice for those affected and advocating for more responsible treatment alternatives to gender-affirming care.
For links and resources relevant to this episode, access the full show notes at www.widerlenspod.com/p/episod...
Visit www.cmppllc.com/ to learn more about Josh Payne and the Campbell Miller Payne firm.
Buy Our Book - When Kids Say They’re Trans: A Guide for Thoughtful Parents at whenkidssaytheyretrans.com/
Join Our Listener Community to Access Exclusive Content at www.widerlenspod.com/
Support the Show at www.widerlenspod.com/p/suppor...
Join this channel to get access to additional bonus content:
/ @widerlenspod
For more information about Sasha’s & Stella’s parent coaching membership groups, visit:
Sasha Ayad: sashaayad.com/parenting-coach...
Stella O’Malley: www.stellaomalley.com/parent-c...
To learn more about our sponsors, visit:
Therapy First at www.therapyfirst.org/
Genspect at genspect.org/
If you liked this episode, more episodes you might find interesting include:
Episode 94 - WPATH’s Bizarre 8th Standards of Care
• EPISODE 94 WPATH's Biz...
Episode 99 - Detransitioned & Damaged by the Dutch Protocol: Teiresias
• EPISODE 99 - Detransit...
Episode 112 - Jamie Reed: “Every Ethical Line I Drew Was Walked On… We Are Hurting People”
• EPISODE 112: A Convers...
Episode 118 - Prioritizing Expensive & Invasive Interventions: American Healthcare w/ Zhenya Abbruzzese
• EP 118: Prioritizing E...
Episode 131 - Facing Futility: You Can’t Actually Change Sex, with Corinna Cohn
• EP 131: Facing Futilit...
Episode 151 - "These Doctors Have Forgotten the Meaning of Medicine" with Dr. Eithan Haim
• EP 151: A Whistleblowe...
Episode 160 - A Look at the Overlap Between Autism and Gender Dysphoria, with Christina Buttons
• A Look at the Overlap ...
Episode 161 - The Unlikely Whistleblower with Tamara Pietzke
• The Unlikely Whistlebl...
I can't gloat over lawsuits against gender affirming 'carers' because each one represents a person who has had his or her health seriously compromised, but this litigation does seem to be one of the few things that might put the brakes on this awful medical malpractice.
Brilliant comment.
Not gloating but a feeling that things will be put right. 🤞
You cannot give informed consent if the information is incomplete, is untrue or unable to be understood by the patient. Not a lawyer but this seems pretty basic.
Totally agree. It's heartbreaking. I predict that his firm will stay very busy for years to come.😢
You cannot give informed consent if you are psychologically unwell. @@Ifailedeverything
The cynic in me says this won't stop until the insurance companies don't reimburse for these procedures, the hospitals won't get paid for these procedures, the puberty blockers get stricter prescribing controls and the lawyers win a few cases to establish precedence.
I absolutely agree with you. Money is the driving force behind this movement. If the money dries up, the movement dies.
Yep!
I suggest you research Investigator Journalist Jennifer Bilek! She explains how it's about money. I hope Gender-a wider lens gets her on the podcast!@mackattack701
Yes, once the effects of the drugs and procedures on children are more fully known, insurance will have no choice but to either significantly demand evidence of the actual medical need or to stop reimbursing altogether
That's not really cynicism, that's just common sense
Puberty is a right of passage into adulthood, not a medical condition to $in on.
Well said!
Thank you for protecting children and young adults.
The movement for bodily autonomy, for children and vulnerable adults, need more lawyers like this man. Many more. Non-therapeutic practices, including surgical procedures on children need to be stopped. Children cannot by definition give informed consent- especially when their bodies are healthy. This goes back decades.
absolutely! abolish infant circumcision !
It’s amazing isn’t it that genital mutilation and sex and gender alteration aren’t illegal for minors and cognitively/behaviorally compromised adults.
Totally. I'm in awe at how crazy this is and the institutional capture that has taken place.
Exactly. FGM is illegal in most countries, even to perform in adults on the UK. Yet genital mutilation is legal under the trans ideology.
It's mad.
Same here
Im glad there are people fighting this in law, thank you for your work. It is extreme injustice being done to misguide unwell kids and adults.
My country has been so embarrassingly backward in just about every sector over the past decade or so that I am thrilled the Cass Report has come from the UK. Finally some good we can do for the world!
SOO SOOO glad that there are people actually taking the time to sit down and legally understand these "standards of care" and see how they are meaningless and basically only in place to try and cover themselves legally. What a load of BS!!
I’m glad to see detransitioner lawsuits in New England! And across the country. Thank you! 💕💌
Canada needs a similar law firm. The 'expert' witness testimony during these trials will be very interesting.
With the way Trudeau carries on...good luck!
Jordon Peterson's lawyer mate has already forced his legal authority to vote out compulsory DEI impact statements. Trudon't is no longer a force, yesterday's man already.
My prediction is Trudeau will go all in on this and declare Canada is a safe haven for anyone seeking gender affirming care.
Thank god for the brave people fighting for those who have been harmed by this terrible ideology.
The chickens are coming home to roost.
The roosters are coming home to roost…
A small (unfunny) joke in this terrible time.
I can’t wait for this widespread insanity to come to an end.
This man is a hero !!
Frankly he's an opportunist akin to an ambulance chaser.
Those women are heroes.
@@georgiaamanatides4207not many attorneys want to take these cases because this is such an fiery issue.
@georgiaamanatides4207
Bull.
@@fairyspunfibers9098 🙁
In a incident of serendipity, it recently occurred to me to refresh my memory about the Repressed Memory movement from the 80s and 90s (for me my late 20s to 30s). I found a NY Times article and also a pair of RUclips videos comparing the two incidents of mass delusion (i.e., recovered memory and late onset trans). Anyway, my point is that the main thing that broke the back of the Repressed Memory movement (aka Satanic Panic) was precisely that victims were able to win massive legal victories. Which led to a domino effect of people losing their licenses and some criminal convictions. It didn’t lead to apologies or retractions you understand but at least the harmful practices diminished drastically quite quickly.
I remember that! Many day care providers were ruined. The McMartins o my Goodness! "BELIEVE THE CHILDREN", they said. "Children know!" Children put their teeth under their pillows, too.
Turns out the adults all around them coached them, it got so big no one would dare question for fear of being next. Sound familiar?
@@theresas740 I lived in fear during that period for my family because I had a relative running a daycare at home.
Also, there were television programs (near the latter stages like now when it was relatively safe) that showed interviews with people who would go to therapists for ordinary reasons like job burnout, only to find themselves in a spiral of being told that they would not be cured unless they acknowledged that they had been victims of the grossest types of abuse. Most of these people had normal upbringings. But hypnosis, drugs and insistent proselytizing will get someone to believe anything.
The belief was everywhere and supported by social workers, therapists, police, media and courts. See any parallels here? And this was before the internet existed.
And one of the true believers from the Satanic Panic/Recovered Memories era, Diane Ehrensaft, is now one of the main cheerleaders of the “trans child” movement in the US. From one grift to another…
That was my first introduction to "settled science".
I have noted this similarity for some time.
What a compassionate man
I am so glad he is doing this for these poor, lost souls. My heart aches for these people. I hope this law firm wins every case they take on! Sad that this is even happening and even sadder that the US gov't is all in on this. God help us
When I saw you had invited a lawyer, I was not particularly interested. But this episode turned out to be fascinating and so gut-wrenching too !
It's amazing the quality of this podcast when you could think that, after so many episodes, the topic would be exhausted or at the very least feel a bit repetitive. But no, I'm still learning so much and discovering new perspectives thanks to you.
Glad you enjoyed it!
When he relates to the devastating genital surgery, nipples and all, it's so so appallingly depressing. These people, medical, and victims alike, have lost their minds.
Listen to kids on YT who are utterly convinced this is all rational and it's reality that's wrong. They are hypnotised.
I’m not familiar with this channel. However, it was the presence of the lawyer that made me watch. It was really informative and valuable to watch.
Josh, you’re amazing. You’re doing a great thing. Best of luck to you and your clients! You will make history I’m sure.
Thank you all. It's so necessary that criticism of the transgender business is based on facts, facts and facts.
Seems like we need to work on getting thesestatutes of limitations changed also. These people have just created a bunch of work on top of all this trauma.
If a stipulated minimum amount and type of evidence could be preserved, evidence that would stand the test of time, that might be possible.
They apply statutes because the web is so tangled it becomes nigh on impossible to put together a proportionate review of responsibility after a very short period of time.
A person talking to children and young people about gender and sexuality only has nefarious intentions towards them.
Please interview Investigator Journalist Jennifer Bilek! She explains how this "epidemic" is about money.
Well said...always follow the money
Jennifer Bilek has spent years investigating this ideology..she would also make a great episode..☮️❤️
@victoriapharey1931 yes, I heard her on another podcast, but I only found her on like 3 different podcasts. Her info needs to be shared on more podcasts!
An absolutely great interview, thank you.
Can parents have standing to sue for harm done to their children? For example, if doctors, therapists, teachers, or people online groom their kids to the point of cutting off contact?
Stay on the lookout for our episode with Vernadette Broyles. She is another lawyer, who is focused on the parental and family rights cases, whereas Josh's firm is focused on detransitioners. That episode is coming soon!
@@widerlenspod , looking forward.
There was a case a few years ago (I believe it was USA but it might have been Europe) of a woman who decided that she should have been born blind. She bandaged her eyes up 24 hours per day so that she could not see, but she felt it still wasn’t enough. So she went to numerous doctors, asking them all to blind her. Of course all the doctors refused. After years of asking doctors, she eventually found a man who was willing to pour acid into her eyes and it did the job. It made her happy. I can’t see any difference between that woman and all the people who are asking for genital transformation operations. In both cases, it’s not a medical problem, it’s a mental problem.
Prisha’s case is heart wrenching. She just had a baby and cannot nurse him. Losing out on that bonding experience that gives the baby a healthy head start, is worth precious time immeasurable.
I'm not disagreeing with your point OP but reality is not all mothers breastfeed. Some mothers choose not to breastfeed which is their right, choice. Women like Prisha were denied their right to have this choice. I'm only pointing this out because I don't want any mother who has gone through what Prisha has to think or feel they have a lesser bond with their baby and/or that their baby has less of a headstart in life because that's not fair and not wholly accurate.
yes, studies show breastfeeding is not only psychological bonding but hormonal as well
@@juneelle370 The baby gets immune resistance from colostrum and the mother gets oxytocin.
I don’t know the % in the USA but many mothers don’t breastfeed. My mother told me I was bottle fed.
@Woodman-Spare-that-tree the formula milk companies pushed many nursing mums and mums to be away with their advertising tactics including in countries with poor folk and poor water supply. Whilst the formula milk works for many there is no doubt those antibodies that are passed through breast milk is extremely beneficial and expressing means others can also feed and bond with the baby.
As an add on it disgusts me that some men use hormones to develop a fluid from their moobs to feed babies.
Ladies, you are not bobbleheads.
Excellent video, thank you.❤
I'd like to know if there were any actuaries who work for malpractice insurance carriers that had the foresight to charge very high premiums to surgeons who perform extreme body modification procedures for trans patients.
Please don't call them "trans" patients. What does "trans" even mean? What makes all these patients "trans", according to you?
@@DonnaBrooks You know the people I'm talking about, don't waste your time trying to police my speech, thank you.
@@DonnaBrooks What other word could be used?
Great idea to challenge insurers paying for elective procedures and passing along costs to the ratepayer.
At least one Australian insurance company is refusing to cover private doctors who give 'gender affirming care' to patients under the age of 18: "MDA National said it will also no longer insure private doctors, such as general practitioners, from legal claims arising from the assessment of patients under 18 as suitable for gender transition treatments, such as cross-sex hormones and gender affirmation surgeries." Unfortunately this doesn't prevent them accessing 'care' through the public hospital system, although they might be somewhat thwarted by long waiting lists there.
This lawyer was a great speaker, such great info, thank you!
I continue to be entirely mystified by statutes of limitations. They only seem protect offenders.
Well, then why don't you sue your accountant from 1972 for the tax return they filed for you that year. Do you have any evidence from that far back? Are any witnesses still alive? It's almost impossible to get to real facts from very old cases.
@@John-tr5hn Sorry mate. I'm not American and therefore this example is utterly meaningless to me.
Plus, logically, if you sue someone and have no evidence then it will get thrown out of court. If, however, I could prove my case, then surely the fact that it's from 1972 is irrelevant?
@@robertmarshall2502Exactly. The statute of limitations does protect offenders and this needs to be changed but we all know in all probability it won't. That said, there are other avenues for people to receive the justice they deserve but they are long and oftentimes years or decades in the making. Many people harmed by this won't realise or know the full extent of the harm done to them until years or decades later. Given the numbers affected by this it's logical to conclude there will be public inquiries held into how this happened and why governments allowed it. That's usually what happens for example in the UK with scandals of this nature and scale.
@@robertmarshall2502 Records are only kept for 7-10 years and then discarded. Tax returns are only active for that length. If I was accused and I could remember I was in Boston that day instead of Chicago and have Easy Pass toll records to prove it, then it could dismissed. The longer you allow a claim to be made, the less defense someone has because you lose track of that information like online bank statements.
@@joce11 Some places the statues run from when patient realizes the harm and not the date of incident.
Thank you, all, for your work. ❤
Thank you for this discussion!
1:00:00 the arguement for surgery as "affirming" gender claims is ALWAYs nonsensical.
If "gender" is nothing to do with sex, why the desire to camouflage your body's sex?
Even if you persist in your dysphoria, the fact you desire to lie to everybody about your body's sex means there's deceit at the heart of all attempts to avoid being recognised.
No, I just wanted to maintain my look from early teens which I have. I starved out my teen growth spurt, was later castrated, and then use low dose estrogen as HRT but present as within my birth sex. I suppose you could argue like Michael Knowles does that pulling skin tighter as in a face lift is deceit but sometimes people lose weight and skin on their stomach can hang. I don't AndyJarman making that decision for me; I want my doctor thank you very much.
@@DorianPaige00why did you want to maintain the early teen look? You had a doctor that made you sterile in order to maintain a more youthful “look”? Most people who go through with castration are trying to align their “gender” (sexist stereotypes) with the look of opposite their born sex.
@@juneelle370 First off, the ones that feel it would be easier to live as a member of the opposite sex because they like stereotypical things related to the other birth sex tend to be unhappy with transition. They transition to fit in and they don't really embrace the opposite sex's body. Similarly males who are slow often think it be best they become women because boys sort of look like women and it's more acceptable perhaps to be a girlfriend instead of a homosexual or your friend's younger brother when both are the same age. Contrarily there are people who feel they "lost nature's coin toss" and want the other sex's development and they partake in both masculine and feminine activities like most people. About 6 months of counseling is needed at minimum to sort this out and when WPATH wants to give ambiguous guidelines and strip away safeguards then they open themselves up to scrutiny, lawsuit, and irrelevance.
If one looks at natal males who at utilized castration/estrogen with slight builds coming out of adolescence, you'd find they maintain their boy look as opposed to becoming women. The first compliment most males get when they utilize HRT is that they look younger and smoother. Breast growth is minimal at best and if one stays thin, there won't be much. I realized at 12.5 and approached a psychologist at 15 in 1991 saying that I need guidelines as to what gender medicine could do. I kept 10% underweight as that is below the threshold for growth up or out and it kept most sperm/testosterone production down. My parents were somewhat disengaged with that aspect. I was always looking after sick relatives and a carpenter's assistant once I turned 11. I helped my father and he needed me because he didn't have a crew and that kept me out of the institution.
Why did I do it? I was precocious early on and didn't like it. By 11-12 I lost weight as I was 30-40 pounds overweight and then the fear of gaining muscle and height became far worse as that would be permanent so I curtailed development and I don't regret it. It was my body to keep and I finally accepted myself around 12.5 after having low esteem. I have no idea why anyone finds a man attractive but I wasn't going to wait until a got there to realize it was too late. Testosterone increases aggression and violent crime is 20 fold compared to women. One can see that every five years a man loses his resemblance even in adulthood. It wasn't me. I preserved myself with mild, methodic restriction and then softened up with castration and estrogen. My skin and corpuscles changed and I sucked it up for a decade until I figured out how to get someone to treat me. My first counselor at 15 was supportive but after that they were discouraging probably because they didn't want to see a young adult go through identity foreclosure. But testosterone will foreclose as it's the more powerful hormone. I found a crew of ADULT boys and we eat and live together and have full relationships. It's a nice life but the appearance is a bit off-color but given the alternatives we had no other choice.
Once I realized I was able to keep my gift of boyhood as an adult, I became protective of the medicine. I have a legal female name as I lied and played the "transwoman-lite card" to get treated. Conservatives have no problem rolling out the carpet for child molesters and rapists and give them whatever castration they want. I don't know why someone would need to offend to get it if certain elements are present with potential like in my case. However, I accept reality; I just keep my body the same. I'm not the one changing my license from 41 to 14 but transwomen do something very similar and encroach. I've seen the time when a transwoman walked passed a single stall and decided to change in the ladies room. If someone is genuinely uncomfortable and about to accuse you of a sex offence, the least one can do is use the single stall. I was a hatchet for about a decade trying to keep LGBT in line until conservatives decided to ban the medicine. I want a carve-out exception when adult bans go into play which will likely be within a year and penalties of decades in prison for possessing something that is not a control and currently legal.
I imagine a class action would be a powerful contribution to turning the tide.
He is a saint
Josh are you able to speak to lawyers in Australia to discuss the work you are doing for detransitioners? The problem here is that government social workers etc treat these kids as what gender they say they are. It is so frustrating and soul destroying for parents. Any help you can give would be greatly appreciated.
Great episode. Great guest.🤩
Really appreciated and enjoyed this interview.
I’m so happy to meet your panel finally some help for this poor souls deceived by medical,psychological and nurse practitioners with severe lack of ethics and morals, they have no medical reason just greed. I practice neurosurgery for 40 years and never saw such egregious behavior I applaude you abbd wish you great success
First lawsuit in the Netherlands too.
Don't forget all these doctors, surgeons and in some cases therapists were all licensed by an approving authority and supervised in their actions.
In lieu of the Post Office scandal, the higher levels who authorised and accredited, and receive reward for doing so, just not go unquestioned.
This was fantastic, thank you ❤
Congrats to Prisha Mosely! I wish her success!
So that law firm can't have won any cases yet. That said, I'm sure they'll be winning a shedload of them down the road. But they have to have had some serious investment into their firm. Hey, if I had the chance to invest, I'd have put my money up well. It's hard for me to see how anyone could think these cases are anything but winners. They're doing God's work though. (And I say this as an atheist.)
You can donate through their website. There is plenty of fees to pay for, especially for testifying experts. Their clients are not paying upfront: lawyers expect to collect their fees with winning lawsuits.
"They're doing God's work though. (And I say this as an atheist.)" This made my day.
There's a group that helps detransitioners with funds to sue. I can't remember the name of it, though. I think the founder was interviewed on this podcast.
@@user-jy9mh8ku3n -- Sure. They're gambling on the fact that down the road, they'll win enough of these cases to make it a profitable business. US law firms have companies that invest in litigation and litigation strategies -- particularly the big class actual suits -- because when they win, they can win really big. But it's a hugely risky business. Looking at the CV's of the founding partners, they've all got a serious track record in complex commercial litigation. I'm sure that they believe in their cause as much as I do -- but I'm equally sure that they're expecting to make bank from these cases.
@@DigitalRelay -- I'm a cultural Christian. While I don't actually believe, I take the view that the world is a far better place if we all acted as though the Judeo/Christian religions were all true. This guy's actions are in line with how the God of my imagination (or perhaps the God of my 1950's Sunday School lessons) would want people to act.
What about the abusive nature of telling parents that it's better to have a live trans child than a dead non-trans child.
When will these suits hit school curricula and individual teachers/counselors who promoted transition with individual kids?
What "expert" wouldn't perceive it their moral, ethical, and professional DUTY to draft literature defying the affirmation model? To testify against the affirmation model, without charge. To protect children and mentally vulnerable. I couldn't in good conscious charge for anything like that. 🐿
In Ireland you can't claim a Judicial Review. 6 or 7 years after it's happened even as an adult.
Sasha, your hair is AMAZING! Also, this topic is expected...
Steadfast love and faithfulness will meet; righteousness and peace will kiss each other -Psalm 85:10 God Bless you for looking on our Taonga -Our precious ones- with gentleness and care. God Bless you for using what is in your hand to do what is just
Oops! Somehow YT thought you wanted to cross out part of your comment, but I think you just meant to put a dash before the word, "Psalm", to show that's the source of the previous quotation.
This is totally OTP but Sasha I love your hair and your shirt. :) What an amazing man, Thank Goddness this is going into legal grounds.
Thank you to the interviewers for letting your guest talk without interruption. 💕💌
Perhaps some kids who grow up may sue their parents
Filed under History.
Unfortunately there aren't enough cases against defendants with deep enough pockets. Only the first group who get past motions to dismiss against large institutional clients will have any chance to get discovery that may bring the cases to settlement resulting in large signigicant awards.
Law firms won't be willing to take the cases on retainer unless they can get a big payout at the end. Cases against individual hospitals or providers won't provide that kind of $$$.
I believe there is some evidence that widespread medical and surgical procedures only started after insurance coverage, including Medicaid, was mandated.
Hit the Like button 🎉
Write a comment ✍️
Share 📨
Push the channel up the algorithm ⚡️
Since words matter so much in the legal profession, might I suggest you use the term, "medical interference" instead of "medical interventions" (which connotes a positive medical action).
This madness started in the US & it will finish in the US
I thought wpath started in Denmark?
@NNM-sc3rj it started in Berlin, when Germany was the weimar republic
Obama care gave it legs in the US, SoC 7 made it qualify for insurance.
Democrats need to wake up NOW. Women are angry and we may sit this one out.
It did Not start in the US
It is very difficult to believe that these countries in the West do not have an extension for people who suffered mental illness to file their claims. They can in Canada this should be pursued. Especially the children who had autism and what about the children who were put in the government care to have these gender affirming surgeries. Who gave consent in those issues? And how is it possible the courts would not grant an extension limitation periods?
Child abuse or neglect
Both, actually.
it must be so hard to defend against a claim because you have to prove the life of the claimant would have been improved beyond the risk, how do you go about doing that beyond reasonable doubt??
Balance of probabilities is the test in a civil case
Re Stellas "this is from Mars" comment. More like Mercury, the messenger from the underworld.
Let’s face it. Genspect helped create a supply and the smart lawyers are going to notice the demand and make the most of it.
The truth hurts, folks.
No, the ghouls and vampires online and in the medical and allied health and teaching fields created this 'supply' as you call it. All power to the lawyers who sue the pants off them.
@@lechenaultia5863, I have an adult son who has been sucked into this cult by his (now) ex-wife, who was a narcissist and who had isolated him from his family. I was seeking help from anywhere I could find it, even if it was just a hotline to let me vent my spleen. Genspect was one of the places I looked for compassion and support. Instead, I learned that they had no compassion for the parents or loved ones of any given individual; they were there to help gently guide us into the same lies that are sold to those who create the idea that we - as human beings - are like Mr. Potato Head and come with interchangeable parts and that people can be ‘born in the wrong body’.
You’re such a boot-licker! Are you a lawyer, by any chance? Oh, wait… they’re ambulance-chasers! 🤣
Detransitioners make the perfect untouchable victim class for saviors and healers alike.
I don’t understand your comment.
❤🇬🇧
Can you get a few transitioners on here who are happy with their transition, such as Blaire White or Buck Angel?
They have their own platforms already and anyone watching sasha and stella likely see their videos recommended by youtube. Not saying it wouldnt be an interesting convo but I think sasha and stella focus on highlighting the voices of people that arent as well heard.
@@rynmcrae7769 Understandable. I don't really know any healthy, adult trans people. However, I was reading Gender: A Wider Lens reviews on Apple, and many complained about the podcast being one-sided. I can see what people are saying, although I think their podcast is excellent, and they're helping so many people. I think it'd be interesting to hear a trans story and his or her opinion. I'm not talking about a trans person who realized they were trans when they were a teen and have only been transitioned for a few years. I'm talking about a trans person who has been living as a trans years before this "trans epidemic" started.
@@christinadodd5780 The conversation HAS been one-sided FOR THE OTHER SIDE for years now. Mainstream news, NPR, the entertainment world, social media, etc. are pro-trans all the time. Do the people complaining about this show being one-sided ever call news stations, networks, movie & TV studios, newspapers, magazines, & websites to complain about THOSE stories all being one-sided? Screw giving the other side equal time after they've been telling us to shut up, threatening & intimidating & cancelling us for years. No. Stella & Sasha should never WASTE their precious time & effort on something that the culture has been shoving down our throats ad nauseum for several years.
@@christinadodd5780 If they invite Blaire White or Rose of Dawn or people like them, then the same people would complain that they invited 'anti-trans trans people'.
They have their own channel's. Oh please
Josh is putting a major spin on the ruling in Prisha's case. The judge actually granted 5 out of 7 motions to dismiss in her case. The only 2 he denied were on the counts of Fraud and Civil Conspiracy. And what the judgement said is that these 2 claims as stated in the original Complaint, if treated as true, would be sufficient to stata a claim. However these two counts are in fact going to be the hardest to prove in a court of law. Having read the complaint in these counts, I see no way they will be able to prove these claims. This case will ultimately fail. The question is how much time and money it will cost both CMP and Prisha herself in legal fees and sanctions.
No one ever won by quitting before they start. Your opinion is not fact & you're not actually making the decisions in the case. I suspect you're intentionally trying to intimidate Prisha & discourage Sasha, Stella, Prisha, & those of us who see this vid & are hopeful about the case. Also, the case might bring media attention to these tragic stories that will engage new people not already aware of the issues these victims face. That's a win. And verdicts can always be appealed to a higher court, which would be great, because it gives the case even MORE exposure to people who haven't heard the stories of detransitioners .
@@DonnaBrooksJulie here is using motivated reasoning. Currently trans-identifying people always have their knives out for detransitioners, for obvious reasons.
There is another angle about this not talked about or being represented in the U.S Court system! Under the U.S Constitution Federal Court and federal government use of the word Transgender violates the U.S Constitution's full faith and credit clause! Birth certificates are issued by the states like marriage certificates are! There is no legal or science based right to say based on a no longer legal birth certificate I can call you this word "transgender" and human sex traffic and sex slave you into this group called the "LGBTQ+" that is actually the real homophobia and transphobia and trampling all over individual rights!
Online and in the media conversations are rigged so only those who self-identify as "LGBTQ+" or as religious conservatives get their voices heard! That isn't free speech that is a rigged conversation! In the courtroom that would be rigged trials!
The pink ribbon movement has died off because it fulfilled its mission.
Are you saying that breast cancer no longer exists? I beg to differ.
@@pollyparrot9447 never said breast cance no longer exists. I said the pink ribbons dont because they did their job
@@purpleprose1315 The pink ribbon is an international symbol of breast cancer awareness.
Transitioning, detransitioning,....just live people!
Don't discount how difficult this is for people. There is much at stake. Nothing simple here.
If they didn't at least follow WPATH standards of care, then they could be liable. If doctors deviate from them, they have to justify it as they would for any other non-transgender treatment.
Surgery if applicable isn't really a functional organ but more in line with a piercing. If that wasn't disclosed, that could be construed as fraud because the doctors know the limitation but the patient does not.
I'm confused by your sentence about surgery. How are these not functional organs being removed?
Wpath standards of care seem to be very loose and open to interpretation with the focus on "embodiment goals" not making ppl better or making sure this is the right treatment
@@robertmarshall2502 When doctor reconstruct a neo-vagina, it's like an ear piercing and not a vagina. With transmen, they need a pump and is that discussed during informed consent where all this will lead? How about natal organ atrophy? Natal males body's are more robust and can withstand it but females can get into issues with pelvic floor collapse, fused cervix and uterus, as well as atrophy which can cause infection since blood from an intermittent period may not be able to leave the body. I'm sure that's put on the table in the 15 minute "sign here" session. A psychologist needs to go over that with a patient and take a couple weeks to make sure it sinks in at minimum. I did a year full assessment on youtube before I signed off and that was after a youth of starving out male puberty and getting information in libraries and psychologists. There was a lack of information around this time and poor examples. When I saw males with cancer going through similar regimens, Asians in prior generation remaining small stature because of lack of protein, and heard about eunuchs in the Bible and tales that they outlived females and even their male counterparts, I knew to not do it would be a mistake. The only risks are weight gain and depression. Beyond that it was the best thing I ever did. Paxil didn't agree with and put on weight but Wellbutrin did the trick and took it off as well as maintain positive mood. That and half dose estrogen are the only medicines I take.
@@DorianPaige00
I can't really tell how over half of what you wrote related to what I wrote.
I can vaguely see that a neo-vagina isn't a functioning organ but it's clearly not like a piercing.
All other surgeries are risky and involve functioning organs. They have enormous complication rates and all remove function and feeling and each scar has a risk of infection and can affect incontinence etc. Depending on what we're talking about. We know about medical scandals with removals of uteruses and the effects were devastating to lifespan and quality for example.
I can't unpick what you're saying about natal organs unless you're saying they're dangers from hormones? If you're talking about natural wear and tear then clearly organ removal is obviously far far worse.
What do you mean by a year full assessment on youtube? From what I can gather from another comment of yours you tricked the clinicians into a surgery you wanted but didn't need. So clearly the assessment was a failure. A robust assessment would have likely highlighted your true reasons and then explored the underlying cause. It would appear this has gone undiagnosed and untreated.
Eunuchs outliving non-eunuchs is the vast minority. The story of eunuch-making is overwhelmingly them dying quickly as well as major health issues such as with bones and incontinence. In places where they had roles of power they were often referred to by how much they literally stank due to this issue. The only places they lived longer lives is in palaces or seats of power where they had access to more food than the general populace. Wanting to be a eunuch is associated with childhood abuse and seeing castration happen or reading about it.
I don't really see living permanently on medications as a win. It sounds like you obviously had and still have other issues that were not dealt with. Clearly there were far more risks than you're pretending but it sounds like both risks you highlighted occurred to you.
I've got no idea what your position on Wpath is. I don't know if you think you responded to that or just started writing and forgot what it was about. But you don't seem to be in the best mental state to be able to answer in a coherent way.
@@robertmarshall2502 I support older WPATH standards where counseling is mandatory. Weeding out folks with multiple personalities and schizophrenia as an exclusive issue would only happen in therapy. Doctors aren't psychologists and may miss that in the 5 minutes they hear a patient speak, so therapy is an essential component. The patient clearly can not just assent and go along with what the doctor is selling. The doctor must have proof they understand. Patient has to discuss the benefits, drawbacks, and side effects of a medical procedure. That can't be within 15 minutes but over a few months at minimum. Doctors have to get a baseline reading of one's bloodwork before HRT can begin. Hormones on day one are a bad idea and were at one point against WPATH standards.
The neo-vagina is not a muscle but a very large piercing that has to be dilated several hours per week or else it will close. Patients need to be informed of that limitation. If not, I strongly believe it's fraud. Similarly the neo-penis has a high failure rate so the surgery has to often be redone. The limitations to the neo-penis are endless. Few can urinate out of it; it has to be pumped for arousal. This must be understood and not sugar-coated.
Back in 2009-2010, I spent a full year in my early 30's observing others who used gender medicine, transitioned, and there was even one detransitioner. I spent roughly an hour a day reading studies and hearing personal testimonials with an emphasis on possible side effects and overall happiness of transitioners. Some videos were psychologists and others were transitioners. I learned quite a bit and found out that bones maintain better under estrogen than testosterone; women have issues in their 50's and onward because menopause reduces their estrogen. If they have a hysterectomy and then get HRT, they don't have the breast cancer risks that women who go on HRT without a hysterectomy have. Furthermore I learned from a British accountant that male pattern baldness is caused by DHT causing skull growth in adulthood. The cranial bones reshape and bald men have a ridge that wasn't there in their 20's when they supposedly stopped growing. Everything Mia Hughes says about medicine isn't true and she isn't even a doctor but a traditional housewife.
Around this time, I studied all of the psychological assessments and standards of care. In my teens and 20's, I was not aware that only WPATH affiliated doctors provide transgender care. Most of the psychologists believed I should live in my own skin like it or not. That wasn't acceptable to me because as adults we change. Throughout my 20's, I maintained the same weight (and height) from my early teens. I never wanted my body to change and I wanted to stay a boy and not become a man. Testosterone forces changes in corpuscles and complexion and hairline that move one away from their boyhood and unless you reverse it within a year, those changes are permanent and they occur throughout adulthood. I never accepted the physical embodiment of manhood like Donald Trump never accepted his election loss. To stunt my growth from 12-adulthood I restricted food (protein and calories). Initially in elementary school, I was borderline precocious and I didn't like it. I went years at a time without interaction from my peer group. Furthermore, I had to rise to the occasion and starting around 11, I always had a sick relative to look after and became a carpenter's assistant as my father was a carpenter. I had studies in school and did well but there wasn't time to socialize which bordered on abuse.
My parents had a vegetable farm but I never witness castration or was around animals. My father was a yeller and had a bit of a temper. The reason why I didn't want testicles is because they would masculinize me and remove me from my physical boyhood. They shrunk once on blockers and estrogen. I debated keeping them but I foresaw the day when the Far Right would rule against us and if I lost access to my medicine, I'd see manhood in about six weeks.
As far as risks, I had depression in teens and as an adult before hormones. I did use Paxil and that was 3 years into HRT. At that point, I put on weight but it went off Paxil and onto Wellbutrin and weight is gone and depression is non-existent. My cholesterol, blood pressure, triglycerides, ability to run long distances, and blood sugar all improved on estrogen. I have more energy and tonight I ran 5 miles after working outside for 4 hours beforehand. I take half dose estrogen and that's all that's needed. Men pay a price for the testosterone they make. Men live 3 years on average less than women and have a 20 fold rate of violent crime induced by testosterone. War and aggression would not be possible without testosterone. I can't say many positive things about it.
Castration was necessary so I could live in an extended boyhood with other ADULT males like myself. If someone had this issue but had no way to live this life, they wouldn't have much to live for and would be inclined to break the law. Why is it if a male molests a kid or rapes a woman, conservatives feel the patient would do better if they were castrated? And yes to maintain bones, they get low dose estrogen. Now that eunuch would stink! However if I have all of the present elements of a pedophile but do not act nor commit a felony and do the right thing and exclude myself from minors, why can I not be castrated? Is cruelness the point! As James Cantor said most of us know this inclination at a young age. I had the awareness to preserve myself for me and for a partner so we could live our lives like manhood will never happen and for us it won't.
I wonder if parents that pushed their children into transgender affirming care will be included in these lawsuits?
Many parents were guilted into it by being told their child would un//live themselves.
The lawsuits will flood in eventually but this is NOT going to be a win for the public.
People will be suing doctors, therapists, medical organizations, insurance companies, big pharma and state/federal medical aid . This will result in the rest of the public paying for this in the form of higher costs in medical care, increased insurance rates/medicine/taxes etc.
They are going to recoup the money they have to payout to trans detransitioners in lawsuits by gouging the public.
Additionally, I think we’ll see young transitioners eventually trying to sue their parents, even the parents who tried to delay their minor child’s choice for medical transition.
The people who will make money or recoup it, are the lawyers, clinics, medical organizations, insurance, big health pharma & the trans people themselves. The people who will pay for all of this is the general public, especially those who already struggle to get basic healthcare & life needs met.
It already is! A win for justice.
Why should the public be forced to pick up the bill for this? Anyone who has pushed this transgender nonsense such as Stonewall, Mermaids, politicians, governments and medical professionals need to pay for the evil they have committed
This is how getting any form of justice is always framed. Don’t blame the greed ~ blame those harmed by the greed and shame them for getting justice. You’re following corporate medical propaganda to the T.
@@juneelle370 I clearly stated that the general public will pay in the end.
@@alignwithsource thus, putting the blame on those who seek justice for terrible medical malpractice and wanting to turn “the general public” against those seeking justice. It’s a clever little trick that’s been used ever since law began. Let’s see who we can guilt out of seeking justice and how much stigma we can put on those who have been wronged.
Reading these comments, I'm a bit stunned.....these young people have been deceived, misinformed, drugged and mutilated without full informed consent, now live with irreversible damage......and you're criticising the lawyers rather than the online ghouls and the deranged health and education 'professionals'?
We all got jabbed because we relied on medical advice, you wanna see court cases? Just wait a year.
Vaccinated people saved lives. Please stop
No we didn’t. Some of us said no, and stuck to a resounding no!
@@jaijai5250 yes! Some of us said no
I'm not sure how adult patients who present with gender dysphoria uniformly have a lack of understanding of themselves. Does that categorically mean that you don't understand your reproductive system if you want to get birth control yet are willing to learn or know the side effects, risks, and limitations of that care? This is a bit of arrogance and glimpse of extremist ideology at work on the lawyers part.
I was recently watching a video by an older lesbian who is a detransitioner explaining this. When we're talking about "gender dysphoria", that's a diagnosis. They're suffering from gender distress or discomfort and go to a professional who gives them this diagnosis. "This is what you have, this is what your condition is called, gender dysphoria". You with me so far? So then comes the next step, after diagnosis you get recommendations for treatment. These are adults who are trusting their healthcare providers. Those providers then send them down the path of transitioning, telling them it will solve their distress. Only to realize later that it didn't help at all but did damage.
@@elizabethwhite1068 Not quite and just a bit off. Gender medicine is "consumer driven medicine." I don't know of anyone who goes to a therapist and says I'm struggling with my gender identity or I'm having problems living as my natal sex. The only way I foresee that as even a possibility is that someone is teased because they exhibit traits that are not normally associated with their birth sex. Patient wants to be birth sex but doesn't fit in. That person if they "transition" will regret it and they need to be screened out. That's the socially dysphoric side and Stella O'Malley experienced this.
The other side is the body dysphoric side. I'm NGU (never grow up) and hated the physical aspects of it. I mentally and physically was precocious and never felt like anyone my age. As time went on, growing up and growing old became something I mocked because I didn't get to pick what I wanted. Late in elementary school I decided to stunt and that leveled off my height and then obviously with the stunting lost nearly 40 pounds. Once I became underweight, I stayed below the threshold for growth and sperm production. I had a picture in my mind at a young age of how I wanted to look and I didn't want to go past that stage of development so I curtailed it.
Transwomen go through something similar as where they get too much puberty and too much height to ever be an "undeveloped version" of themselves. Again they passed through it around 11-15. Transmasculine people need to take testosterone very seriously as it has more carbons and hydrogens and gives plus factors like deeper voice, wider jaw, etc. For the folks who have body issues, transition is very important.
What is the damage? Most detransitioners have botched surgeries or a medical complication where they rethink and then create "pile-on" arguments. Shapeshifter is one of them where he can't figure out which argument to use. The vaginoplasty was botched but then says I should not have done it to begin with. Any attempt to fix would not work because patient wants their penis back. Are those who are doing well under gender transition now subject to this guys questioning which he wants to bring the entire network of providers down? Is any elective surgery acceptable and should doctors be barred from doing it? This could bring down things like birth control because one person has a complication.
There's a set standards of care that have been relaxed and needs to be rethought. The most common response is doctors should not being doing gender transition even for adults despite people who are doing well and just need maintenance medicine. Legislators had no problem removing minors from their medicine and in the UK found a doctor that said they don't need to even be weened off. This headed down a nasty path because constitutional law is being stripped away as the founding fathers didn't directly comment on gender medicine. All they have to do is focus on the chokepoint by going after the medicine as it doesn't affect that many people. They'll either make it so doctors can not legally practice or make it financially infeasible for them to practice.
Mr Payne, I suggest you not refer to your firm's motivation to pursue these cases as a "calling" or "mission." Accurate or not, this comes off as Christian fundamentalist speech and will be maligned as such by pro-trans groups and people and supportive "liberal" allies. Politics and religion often cloud the facts of this issue, and we need those facts to be crystal clear.
More compelled speech!
@@jcimsn8464it's more of PR, but I get your point.
I disagree. I and my sister Nurses often describe nursing as a calling and it has nothing to do with religion. Spies and soldiers and Jake & Elwood go on missions, too.
My ex-neighbour's calling is being in prison. The word has a wide application.
Context is everything when it comes to language interpretation. He's not in the military and not a nurse. He's a lawyer fighting transgender medical treatment cases that could potentially limit such care for others, so his motivations will be scrutinized by trans- supportive people. As someone who operates in liberal and progressive spaces myself, I know this language will characterize him as a Christian fundamentalist- "Fundies" are a common ideological, political, and legal threat. It's something a lawyer will want to consider as public attention and scrutiny increase.
My god, this lawyer is going on and on in double speak.
He wants to help? Yeah, he wants to help bimself to 40 % of the settlements.
cry more.. all the glitter and rainbow bunting in the world won't stop the destruction of the neopagan rainbow cult after such grotesque pride in crimes against humanity.... CHILDREN! Mengele and Marcie Bowers would find each other quite amiable company...
The "solution" offered to the gender clients is double-speak in itself.
Are you saying theyre gonna make a lot of money because there's gonna be a lot of detransitioners coming?? 😅
As another comment said, they haven't even won any cases yet. The fact that they are investing their time, money, and careers into this fight and are still pushing, tells me that your jaded rants are misplaced.
@@plantsntrance5513 Duh!
Look, these lawyers aren't taking on these cases out of the goodness of their heart.
They see this as the latest cash cow.
It's all about the money, honey.
One cannot undo the harm done, which, had the doctors and therapists not got on board, they would have been drummed out of business.
Transitioners chose and used the bully pulpit to get what they wanted at the time. Now they want to play the flip side.
Good luck on that.
This lawyer, and his cohorts, see $$$$$$ signs.
you don't get it. TQ+ won't stand under scientific scrutiny. It's already done but the crying. I sense a personal bias in you....
now comes the expose of the occult and criminality behind the "gender affirmers". This is the shame of a society. Historians WILL roundly condemn this repulsive development...
Are you saying theyre gonna make a lot of money because there's gonna be a lot of detransitioners coming?? 😅
You actually don't know this man personally. You have a preconceived prejudice, even if it's rooted in a usually deserved stereotype. Also, of course he makes money doing his job. But only if he wins. And if he does his win, we all win. If he wins, vulnerable children win. This war is a million small battles, and we need people strong and smart and determined enuf to be winning some of those battles for our side. Too many people are afraid to even voice their opinion, let alone fight the demon.
Don't play the role of a RUclips comment troll. There is good being done here, and it should be recognized and applauded. Even if he was doing it just for money, if he wins these cases, than it still helps children and vulnerable populations.
We know where the devils hide. This lawyer is not one.