Very interesting discussion. Many years ago after losing steadily for a couple of years in Flames of War with the US. I stripped it back to leg infantry engineers MMG mortars atg and 27 bazookas it won me a major UK comp. Oh and I had a plt of Rangers for doing weird stuff at the start of a game 😅
Thanks for this One! 13:40 US Medics are now around 20p Regular! 17:44 Halftrack, Company Commander - 3x Flamethrower Engineers 26:00 HMGs 28:00 Bazooka 30:00 Mortars 33:00 WHAT IS THE M51 Multiple Machine Gun Carriage??? OMG
@@ryanmckalip4890 I will play alot of US in the Next Time. Coming over from Germany and British Armies.... I am Struggling abit. But this Video helped me!
I can't help but wonder if before Version 4 comes out, Warlord Games should perhaps solicit input from players, utilize some play-testers to try out ideas and work out the bugs, and maybe have someone proofread the book.
I think light howitzers might have some value 2 of them with an LT is only 111pts for 3 dice put them on ambush and points them at exposed areas between cover then ask you opponent of they're feeling lucky 🤣 some direct fire is a good idea just to stop you getting rushed. However 2 Flames teams and a jeep might be a better option at only 114pts really depends if Flamers are restricted or not. I can easily bring 5 Flamers in a 1k like and not really be missing out on anything.
Air observers are not worth it. With the increase of shots from medium and heavy machine guns, multiplying Autocannon hits, and the fact that MGs get their full ROF against aircraft makes them a lot more likely to be driven off. Plus, the Artillery observer is now the exact same cost for a more reliable outcome, Air observers just don't work. They should have gone to 6 hits to drive off so that they had at least some chance to stick around. I also believe that they will need to errata the 4HMG carriage just because of the power it presents (24 +1penetration shots is massively overpowered in the rules as written) it will potentially hit 1/2 of its shots, wound 1/3 vs vets, and only allow saves on 5+ in hard cover. (12 hits, 6 kills, 2 save = 4 dead enemy) numbers only get worse for Reg and Inex or anything caught in the open. Soft skins and light vehicles will suffer as well. I truly believe they didn't think out the MG rules very well. (4 shots would have been a much better ROF for the heavy, more realistic and balanced)
Im a proponent for air obs, but thats becaude my opponent doensnt have anything to counter them. I think your reasoning is correct, the 24 shots is waaay to OP The +1 lowers over distance, but indeed: Vet: 6 wounds Reg: 8 wounds Inex is anything but: 10 wounds Damn...
Would you gentlemen be kind enough to elaborate on why the Browning Automatic Rifle is not included in the new Fire and Maneuver? To my understanding it is another type of rifle, is it not? From what I am reading, all rifle and carbine armed units are eligible - so any infantryman armed with an automatic rifle made by Browning would be, then, eligible. I would love your thoughts and feedback. Thank you for creating this deep dive!
One of my complaints about snipers is that you can only take one of them (unless you take a second rifle platoon). They are advertised as being the counter to those small two man teams like bazookas and flamethrower teams, yet you can take way more of those in a specialized list than a single sniper could really handle.
Here is a question, how does the long range penetration rule interact with putting pins on vehicles? Does it need to be working the half range for it to actually put pins on?
If the weapon has a plus modifier then it will cause pins on a target non-Veteran vehicle (provided it was not soft-skin pr Open topped). Is that what you're meaning?
There’s a difference between not having a pen value and having your pen value reduced to 0. For example, an HMG always has a pen value, even if it suffered a -1 for being at more than 1/2 of the maximum range. So yes, it still counts as having a pen value.
The US fire and manoeuvre rule is not the same as the British rapid fire rule. You can't use rapid fire on an advance order, but you can use fire and manoeuvre.
Great work i really found this convo helpful
Keep up the good work mate 👍
Very interesting discussion. Many years ago after losing steadily for a couple of years in Flames of War with the US. I stripped it back to leg infantry engineers MMG mortars atg and 27 bazookas it won me a major UK comp. Oh and I had a plt of Rangers for doing weird stuff at the start of a game 😅
great video; well put together
hoping you do these for all nations!
Thanks for this One!
13:40 US Medics are now around 20p Regular!
17:44 Halftrack, Company Commander - 3x Flamethrower Engineers
26:00 HMGs
28:00 Bazooka
30:00 Mortars
33:00 WHAT IS THE M51 Multiple Machine Gun Carriage??? OMG
Yes, I’m pleased with the change to medic pricing. I’m going to try and run one for a while and see if I find it worthwhile.
@@ryanmckalip4890 I will play alot of US in the Next Time. Coming over from Germany and British Armies.... I am Struggling abit. But this Video helped me!
For new players move and shoot was gold well atleast for me it was
I watched a video on the math of the change and it wasn't that much of a difference. I believe when standing still it's slightly better now too.
I can't help but wonder if before Version 4 comes out, Warlord Games should perhaps solicit input from players, utilize some play-testers to try out ideas and work out the bugs, and maybe have someone proofread the book.
I think light howitzers might have some value 2 of them with an LT is only 111pts for 3 dice put them on ambush and points them at exposed areas between cover then ask you opponent of they're feeling lucky 🤣 some direct fire is a good idea just to stop you getting rushed. However 2 Flames teams and a jeep might be a better option at only 114pts really depends if Flamers are restricted or not. I can easily bring 5 Flamers in a 1k like and not really be missing out on anything.
Air observers are not worth it. With the increase of shots from medium and heavy machine guns, multiplying Autocannon hits, and the fact that MGs get their full ROF against aircraft makes them a lot more likely to be driven off. Plus, the Artillery observer is now the exact same cost for a more reliable outcome, Air observers just don't work. They should have gone to 6 hits to drive off so that they had at least some chance to stick around.
I also believe that they will need to errata the 4HMG carriage just because of the power it presents (24 +1penetration shots is massively overpowered in the rules as written) it will potentially hit 1/2 of its shots, wound 1/3 vs vets, and only allow saves on 5+ in hard cover. (12 hits, 6 kills, 2 save = 4 dead enemy) numbers only get worse for Reg and Inex or anything caught in the open. Soft skins and light vehicles will suffer as well. I truly believe they didn't think out the MG rules very well. (4 shots would have been a much better ROF for the heavy, more realistic and balanced)
Im a proponent for air obs, but thats becaude my opponent doensnt have anything to counter them. I think your reasoning is correct, the 24 shots is waaay to OP
The +1 lowers over distance, but indeed:
Vet: 6 wounds
Reg: 8 wounds
Inex is anything but: 10 wounds
Damn...
Would you gentlemen be kind enough to elaborate on why the Browning Automatic Rifle is not included in the new Fire and Maneuver? To my understanding it is another type of rifle, is it not? From what I am reading, all rifle and carbine armed units are eligible - so any infantryman armed with an automatic rifle made by Browning would be, then, eligible. I would love your thoughts and feedback. Thank you for creating this deep dive!
well page 220 of the rule book states that rifles/carbines count for fire and manouver. it does not mention automatic rifles.
Would you mind if i shared this video on the competitive bolt action FB page?
@@mountainboardwales go ahead
Where dose it says that Bazookas get a 1 inch template against units in the open? I can't see that in the book.
One of my complaints about snipers is that you can only take one of them (unless you take a second rifle platoon). They are advertised as being the counter to those small two man teams like bazookas and flamethrower teams, yet you can take way more of those in a specialized list than a single sniper could really handle.
and the snipers no longer are a real threat to team-weapons
Here is a question, how does the long range penetration rule interact with putting pins on vehicles? Does it need to be working the half range for it to actually put pins on?
If the weapon has a plus modifier then it will cause pins on a target non-Veteran vehicle (provided it was not soft-skin pr Open topped). Is that what you're meaning?
Still puts pins on at long range even though the pen is 0 for an HMG for example
There’s a difference between not having a pen value and having your pen value reduced to 0. For example, an HMG always has a pen value, even if it suffered a -1 for being at more than 1/2 of the maximum range. So yes, it still counts as having a pen value.
Yeah, that was the way I had looked at it, was just checking more astute minds if I was on the right track
The US fire and manoeuvre rule is not the same as the British rapid fire rule. You can't use rapid fire on an advance order, but you can use fire and manoeuvre.
You could on Chindits including a LMG , not sure if they have carried this over to V3 ?
@@deccabw sadly Chindits lost that rule